22-Year-Old Leading the Anti-Affirmative Action Supreme Court Case Had Shitty SAT Scores
The Supreme Court is currently considering 22-year-old Abigail Fisher's case against the University of Texas — and, really, the concept of affirmative action — for rejecting her college application four years ago.
Fisher, who told the New York Times that her dream is "that everyone will be able to get into any school that they want no matter what race they are but solely based on their merit and if they work hard for it," claims her whiteness was held against her.
But, as Clutch's Evette Dionne points out in a letter "to" Fisher, she didn't really have that great a chance of getting into UT, which automatically accepts students from the top 10 percentile from every high school in Texas and favors average SAT scores in the 1200s, because she wasn't that great of a student. Dionne writes:
In blaming affirmative action for that denial letter, you have failed to mention that you graduated number 82 in a class of 674 with a 3.59 grade point average on a 4.0 scale, which alienated you from the automatic admissions bunch. You conveniently omit that you scored an 1180 on your SAT, which is way below UT's average, so that automatically diminished your chances of being accepted.
You've also read this statement from Gregory Garre, the University of Texas at Austin's attorney:
"Even if Abigail Fisher had received a perfect Personal Achievement Index score she would not have been admitted … because her Academic Index was simply not high enough. Fisher would not have been admitted, no matter what her race."
Now, Fisher might reshape affirmative action programs across the country. Which is not only terrifying in itself, but based on her ambivalent attitude regarding overhauling the entire nation's education system. Look what she told the Times:
"The only thing I missed out on was my post-graduation years," she said. "Just being in a network of U.T. graduates would have been a really nice thing to be in. And I probably would have gotten a better job offer had I gone to U.T." She said she was trying to come to terms with her role in a case that could reshape American higher education. Asked if she found it interesting or exciting or scary, she said, "All of the above."
But she did not hesitate to say how she would run an admission system. "I don't think," she said, "that we even need to have a race box on the application."
I do understand her frustration, but it should be aimed at UT's 10% rule and not at affirmative action.
I'm sure that there are many admissions from the 10% rule that would not get in if they had to follow the guidelines that everyone else is subjected too.
In many Texas high schools the top 10% get shitty grades and test scores.
It will mean more Asians.
I don't understand how she even has standing in this case.
So go to community college for 2 years, get straight As and reapply.
Dogfaced gingers do not excel!
It's the law!
The issue is still relevant, even if this plaintiff doesn't really deserve any relief.
I think AA's time has come and gone. I still think it's good to promote diversity, and I still think plenty of schools will try to do that. Though, for man it may be tough.
But, assuming AA is overturned, can a university legally admit a black student with a 1200 SAT (or today's equivalent) and a 3.5 GPA over a white student with higher(1250, 3.6 GPA), but not drastically higher scores?
I mean, how does this not become "we simply have to take the highest scores/grades down the line."? (which I assume, a lot of people are fine with).
I mean, if a white student is now admitted and has lower scores/grades than another white student who is not admitted, the argument can be "personal statement, extracurriculars, work experience, recommendations, etc." are better. But, can an admissions office make that argument on behalf of admitting a minority student now?
Great time to be a brainiac minority with high grades/test scores as there will be competition for them.
That sort of AA action has already been overturned in the UC System. The result: Asian American students now dominate the University system because their scores are so much higher. After, many white students were complaining that the school should return to looking at the entire achievements of the student (which I agree with) but it was a sour grapes argument for a decision that was thought to aid white applicants.
She sounds like a self entitled twit.
Karma for the white whiners at UC.
I agree that the Top 10% From Any High School rule is bullshit.
I went to a highly competitive, private school. I'm sure our Bottom 10% was more qualified than many Top 10% public high schools.
But this person comes across as a pampered little princess who isn't used to hearing "no."
[quote] I went to a highly competitive, private school. I'm sure our Bottom 10% was more qualified than many Top 10% public high schools.
Mitt, is that you?
Not if that private school produced people like Dubya, R13. Even at Yale, he was at a C+ and still managed to get into HBS.
We can't pretend there haven't always been others like him.
This case is bad for whites.
" WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN! "
If AA is overturned then "legacy" admissions should also be overturned. Nobody deserves to be admitted to a school because of who their parents are.
Thank you, R18.
If AA is overturned, it will make it odd that schools can consider all types of non-academic criteria such as legacies, musical ability, community service, etc, etc. but to consider diversity in an academic setting is beyond the pale.
Texas' population includes a healthy chunk of racist cunts.
Let's judge people by the color of their skin!
R22 = False equivalency. But you know that.
I had shitty SAT scores. My family told me I'd do horribly on them and I met their expectations.
Fortunately, it does get better.
So this lawsuit is really about ending affirmative action. I thought as much.
Ok, if the scholl was very competitive, then that class rank would be pretty good.
But those SAT scores? no.
This was a very bad case to base this on.
R8-It depends, i would think. Did the white student has far more opportunities than that black student...was one of the students slacking...that's where a lot of the other supplemental info (essay, recommendations, etc.) in the app comes into play.
Dionne's letter makes Fischer out to be dumb. She's not. 3.59GPA and only slightly below 1200 threshold. That's a smart kid. Not the 10% they want but... geez. Getting into a good college now is tough. My school is now one of the most competitive in CA. It wasn't so when I went there.
I think it's time for AA to run its course. We're now competing against a global market and we want the best and the brightest, regardless of race.
R28, no one is saying that Dionne is a dumb kid by any stretch of the imagination but Dionne did NOT qualify for guaranteed admission under the 10% program nor are those SAT scores high enough to compensate for that (a 1400 SAT and Dionne might have a point).
I know that r29. I read the same article you did. The comment is an aside.
Texas has a huge community of high achieving Asians. The precedent has been established in other States but Dionne wants an excuse. This won't turn out the way she expects even when the decision goes in her favor.
Affirmative Action does not work!
Just ask President Obama.
The point is, R28, you might actually be getting the "best and brightest," just not traditionally identified as such.
On purely academic scale most white people don't realize they won't automatically get in. Most Asians score higher than whites. Most men score higher in math and sciences than women. Women outscore men on the writing portions of tests. Women were probably let into some engineering and pre med school with lower scores and so are a big beneficiary of affirmative action.
Also men do worse on actual coursework grades so on purely high school standings then you'd take more women than men.
How about legacy candidates. How about people like George W Bush? How about people who get in purely on athletic abilities? How fair is that?
People whine endlessly about race being so unfair but look in the mirror. How many of you actually got admitted to colleges on pure academics? And does a college only want that type of person anyway? Will they end up excluding the more creative types, the types that don't necessarily score big on tests but are gifted in many ways. The future researchers and dreamers that have a way of changing the world?
People grouse all the time that test scores and grades don't tell the whole story about how well someone will do or what they can contribute to the world yet or the first to cry foul over affirmative action.
Consider this: "On the standard 4.0 scale, Steve Jobs, master of the universe, got a 2.65 at Homestead High School from 1968 to 1972"
R32, you have a point... especially when you use "Duh."
Fucking idiot keeps posting the dumbest things which already render him a moron, but he insists on "gilding the lily" with "duh."
How does AA actually work? Is it only blacks and maybe hispanics and native indians who benefit? Or are asians included as well? Cuz around here asians seem to make up the majority of people on campus nowadays. So if some asians have high SAT scores would they bump black candidates with lower scores?
UCLA = University of Caucasians Lost among Asians
Wouldn't this only apply to public schools? Private schools like Yale and Harvard can contniue to make admissions on whatever criteria thy choose.
When her unsuspecting future husband completely fails to bring her to orgasm because she's incapable, she'll no doubt sue his ass for his low achievement on the G-spot exam.
[quote]Dionne's letter makes Fischer out to be dumb. She's not. 3.59GPA and only slightly below 1200 threshold. That's a smart kid.
With today's grade inflation anyone can get good grades in high school so long as he or she isn't a lazy stoner or a complete dumbass.
As for the SATs, remeber they changed the written portion some years back to give it a full 800 points just like the math and verbal portions have always been given. The highest total score you can get now is 2400, so a score of 1200 is like a score of 800 used to be. 800 was not the score of a smart kid way back when and I don't believe 1200 is the score of a smart kid now. And she didn't even get the full 1200!
funny but true, r37. All the UCs are flooded with Asians. UC Irvine has a large population of Asians and Arab-American students.
[quote]Wouldn't this only apply to public schools? Private schools like Yale and Harvard can contniue to make admissions on whatever criteria thy choose.
I don't think so. It will apply to any schools receiving federal funds, and private schools disperse federal aid programs (certain, government-backed loans) as public schools do.
R41, didn't you know UC Irvine is also called University of Chinese Immigrants? ;)
Another entitled cunt trying to blame her incompetence on others. Should anyone be surprised?
I would like to see an expanded version of diversity in admissions -- enrolling more first-generation students, veterans, LGBT, talented musicians, etc - rather than admissions based solely on skin color.
I would also like to see the demise of legacy admissions -- where the unqualified spawn of alumni are given preferential treatment. No conservative groups argue for this since it benefits white applicants.
And Abigail Fisher joins the ranks of Blair Hornstein and Sara Ackerman as spoiled, entitled princesses who would rather everyone else for their own shortcomings.
If we can kind a fourth woman, we could have the next Sex and the City.
Maybe Kaavya Viswanathan, the Harvard student who plagiarized her way into a book contract and then denied that she'd done it.
The Voice of the Night
[quote]who would rather everyone else for their own shortcomings.
rather BLAME everyone else.
The Voice of the Night
1200 wasn't even that good of a score on the old SAT. It's barely average for someone applying to college, especially a competitive state school.
I wonder what Blair Hornstein is up to these days
The nig lovers are out in force in this thread! Guess what fuckers once the court scraps affirmative action your magic negros will need to actually have some basic skills other than frying chicken before getting to college. Tough luck!
R50, you are nasty and racist.
AA gets people hot under the collar but it is better to have it than not. Nations like France don't have it and minorities are basically locked out of university and out of the job market. They are bitter and upset, with reason. AA has bumps along the way and it's controversial but has created a less angry, divided society in the long run.
She had to settle for Dickinson? That poor, poor girl!
But I am WHITE!
I am HETEROSEXUAL!
I am CHRISTIAN!
People like this make me want to hurl.
[quote]She had to settle for Dickinson? That poor, poor girl!
She ended up going to St. Andrew's University (Prince William's alma mater) after Harvard took back its admission offer.
R52 how dare those disgusting french have people tested on equal terms? savages!! They need some schooling from you and barry the magic negro to make them understand that meritocracy is such a horrible thing.
Not being American, I fail to comprehend why your schools would admit students on any other basis than their academic standing and possibly extracurricular activities.
Affirmative action, lecacy students etc., what's the point? Judge people based on their merits, not how poor they are or how rich they are.
France is a very meritocratic society. It is a very stratified one and very non-diverse at the top. It is very tense and minorities there are very unhappy.
We have some of the same problems here of course but definitelyhave more minorities at the upper ranks of society.
I feel sorry for black people because if they screw up, people knowing roll their eyes, but if they do well people say they had their success handed to them. They can't win.
Not being American: stay out of it.
OP = Black racist.
Hope the young woman wins and AA is finally sent to its death.
Why should having minorities at the top be an accomplishment in itself, R60? Having equal access to schools and jobs should be a goal, awarding minorities with jobs or univeristy spots they aren't qualified for should not, because as you say, people will think they haven't earned them.
Because the road to the top is 3x harder for blacks than anyone else, R63.
Don't minorities get extra points? Take away all the extra points given and then see who are in the top ten percent.
Once again, can someone please explain how AA is applied? Are all visible minorities eligible? Would someone of Asian background bump an African American with a lower SAT score? Or are so many spots allotted for each race?
Affirmative action is a sorry attempt by the government to try and make things equal. It's time for it to go.
White students are more likely to be legacy. Their parents are more likely to have pull getting them in.
I do think the affirmative action should be shifting more to class and income, but a little elp is still needed to level the playing field. Moreover, diversity at a college is good in itself.
So what? That is like saying black people are on food stamps. We all know it's true, but it doesn't explain why there is nothing but black folk at the Chicago food stamp office.
Where are all the hungry white, Asian and Latino Chicagoans?
Actually, R69, a lot of food stamp recipients are not black.
She should have studied harder.
France is a meritocracy...how's that working out for them? Among the highest tax rates, productivity lower than most western countries, racial and ethnic strife.
No system is perfect. The problem with AA is that it only begins to address the underlying problem. The real issue to address is how to expand the pool of qualified applicants, not how to distribute the existing pool of them.
Oh, and I got my acceptance letter to UC Berkeley one week after I submitted my application during early admissions. And yes, I am Asian. So, people moaning about AA should really ask themselves if they are competitive in this market...be careful what you wish for.
I don't understand AA and how people are labeled as a particular race. What happens if you are bi-racial? What happens if I say I'm black on a college app and I'm not. I could be blond, blue eyed and lily white and SAY I'm black, or that I "identify" as such because one of my great grandfathers was black. Who is going to challenge me?
This girl should have just checked the block on her college application that says race = black. Problem solved.
Oh, and R40, when someone says their scores were 1150, they are referring to verbal and math only. The written portion is still just something colleges only glance at because it's too subjective.
did none of you bother to see/hear what melissa harris perry said???
R72 look chink, you shouldn't be bragging on the internet about acomplishments nobody will ever be able to check, and furthermore, nobody cares about because you are trying to make it look like an argument when it is not. Also what is this delirant obsesion, pretending that France is some sort of hellhole? Are we having again some sort of "freedom fries" phase?
France is still clearly considered a mature market. However, it does have individual tax rates that run up to 75% for the super rich. Given how much merit is taxed, it is hard to argue that it is a meritocracy.
it has amongst the lowest employment rates among Western European countries, driven by extremely high minimum wage rates which makes hiring young and old workers less economical. Not a merit based system.
Finally, education. It is government funded so that fees run around $1000. However, ones fate is determined fairly early in their system.
Let me guess, R74 - she favors Affirmative Action. Shock.
But so many of the, uh, "successful applicants" had low SATs, too. They just had that little extra in the finish department that put them over. That's what this is about. Unworthy applicants arguing over who should get a shot at the pity openings at a school with over 50,000 students.
50,000+ students. Got that?
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