OP = Republican spin room meme. You know that Ryan didn't come out of the debate the winner when the whole thing the GOP is complaining about is Biden's mannerisms and how much he smiled.
I'd be mean to Paul Ryan, given the opportunity.
GOP on Democrats
Democrats are weak, spineless fraidy cats
Democrats are mean, tough-talking bullies
So laughing stock, class clown, Uncle Joe Biden bested Ryan. Guess we better keep him away from Putin.
[quote]All that laughing and smirking!
You seem to be under the delusion that Republicans deserve something more than that considering the bullshit coming out of your mouths.
Sweetheart, the GOP has become a laughing stock. A party where jackasses think the president wasn't born here, the president's college transcripts are hidden, the president gives out free cell phone (Bush started the program), the president did what no other president could: Cooked the labor #s. The first lady has a "kill whitey" tape.
The GOP is a party of idiots worthy of nothing but ridicule.
R10, you're right. Ann Coulter went from saying "Dems are fags" to "Dems are leaking testosterone in fear".
She said this in 2010 and 2012. She's an evil cunt, just like every other Republican.
Biden's smirk bothered me because it definitely diverted attention from Ryan's (occasional) incoherence.
R11, give it up. Seriously. Give it up.
Won't work because Biden's gaffs will never harm anyone, unlike the reality of Mitt.
R12, perfect! That response should be reposted everywhere.
Ryan had his own smirk going on. It was foul. Biden was good natured and tactful in his smile and laugh - a dreadful combination to face down. It clearly got to Ryan.
Ryan has zero humor. He was unable to respond to Biden's demeanor. He didn't know what to do and came off as ever grimmer.
Way to pay attention to the issues, people!
(R18) You'd be grim too if you knew what the chapter titled "The Final Solution" in Ryan's plan for balencing the budget entailed.
Some people like to characterize Ryan as a heartless monster, but he loves his grammy and feels bad about how much he is going to miss her.
Ryan speaks like he's trying to sell children something. So patronizing.
Biden was mean? Too fucking bad. Romney did the same thing and he was praised for it.
Ryan needed to shut up and bury his face in the pillow.
[quote]Biden was mean? Too fucking bad. Romney did the same thing and he was praised for it.
Except Biden told the truth and Mitt wouldn't know the truth even if it bit him in his magic underwear.
Mean is the very definition of the entire Republican platform.
Mean, selfish and entitled. Paul Ryan.
I am kind of worried some voters will agree with op.
Blow it out your ass.
Biden was vert disrespectful. and Radfitz had no right to inject her personal feminist politics into this debate.
Ryan was great. He dispatched Biden with grace and I love how he just calmly smiled while that greaseball Biden told lie after lie.
The American people sides with Romney and Ryan.
r28 what church are you brainwashed by?
Brain dead Biden and his new veneers, his lisping and at one point he lost his point and was garbled, his smirking and condescending was not becoming. Plagiarist Biden is not to be trusted.
Oh hey there, freeper fuckwit at R30.
I'm sure it's disappointing that VP Biden won that debate but you'll get over it.
I was hoping Biden would make Ryan cry
Biden lost. Accept it and movr on
Biden exposed Ryan for what he is: a lightweight. It was fun watching that happen.
Girls, Girls ....neither of you is pretty.
[quote]CHRIS WALLACE: "I don't believe I have ever seen a debate in which one participant was as openly disrespectful of the other."
Oh Chris, that buzzing sound in your ear is your Father spinning in his grave.
Biden didn't Smirk. Ryan did, constantly.
Biden was too honest to smirk. He showed his genuine passion by not accepting Ryan's bullshit.
Joe Biden was a meanie! I'm telling Mommy! I'm a freeper who can't deal with anyone who lives the way they want and not the way they're told! WAH!
Live by the rule book
Who is telling Obama and Biden to smirk and grin during their opponents' time? Biden had the facts, he didn't need to act so petulant. That kind of behavior doesn't help.
It's hard to be kind to someone when you are mopping the floor with him.
Ryan should be thankful Joe didn't rest his head in the bucket.
Biden didn't act petulant. If he'd sat there with a grim face people would've said he was being a bully. Biden took Ryan down with a smile and by repeatedly referring to Ryan as "my friend."
Joe got the job done.
Repugs are pissed about it.
Thank you, Joe.
totally agree R42
agree as well with r42.
A Democrat fought back? Jeeezus, back to the drawing board. Gotta come up with a whole new set of lies.
As Sherrod Brown's cool wife Connie said, when the right is saying Raddatz did a "bad" job, you know their candidate lost!
I guess you don't get out much and amuse yourself with these bait threads. I am sure that Lyin' Ryan will survive.
One of the most curious aspects of our political culture is that liberals, because they hold views on the left of the spectrum, are also supposed to be "nice." So when a Bill Clinton comes along, or then a Barock Obama, and he fights back against the Coulters and the Limbaughs, waves of shock overcome the chattering classes.
Biden may not be the best behaved pol in the house, but he was passionate and witty, at times to a fault. It's hard to see how his conduct could possibly be described as offensive.
Last week, my conservative friends were crowing about Romney's masterful performance, while my liberal friends admitted that Obama lost the debate. Last night, those same conservative friends were whining about Biden's behavior. That is a perfect picture of the delusion on the right. They can't even lose gracefully.
It's easy to see when you consider the motivation--to discredit Joe and ensure that sheeple will vote against the Democrats.
Please, Biden had restraint, the Lyin' Ryan was lucky that Biden is a gentleman and used restraint and FACTS. Republicans now cry foul when FACTS are used. Republicant's aren't fact checkers, they are against any form of coherent backing of facts with facts, they 'factualize' with lies.
The Republican party has become a morally bankrupt party of whiners. They need to clean house, get centered and stop with the lying and wing nut spinning.
It's wonderful seeing all these Republicans' breasts exploding.
R49 is right - conservatives can't handle it when things don't go their way so double-standard after double-standard pours out of their angry mouths.
Ann Romney should have saved her "poor sportsmanship" comments for the GOP this morning.
Indeed, Ryan was a liar and fabricated tons of shite, Biden was being honest.
I'd be mean to that little lying, pansy-assed fucker too. Hasn't anyone but me noticed the self-satisfied smirk on that little shits mug in almost every public appearance. Like he knows he's a fraud and he is putting one over on the public and getting a real kick out of fooling the sheep.
Haha on Twitter, Herman (Uncle Tom) Cain twittered that Biden "interrupted too much" and Ryan was "too polite to interrupt." Coretta Scott King replied, "Go rub your wife's feet." Too funny.
You know Ryan did a bad job when the Republicans had to trot out his Mama again after the debate to talk about Medicare.
Is Ryan's Mama running for VP? If not, they need to send her home and let Ryan answer the questions himself.
And yes, freepers, Biden won. And when you want to complain about Biden's smiling, his interrupting and other "style" points, you're just admitting he won.
The only morning radio news in Denver is a Fox station and one of the anchors said she listened to the debate on the radio and thought Biden scored points and then when she watched a replay she thought Joe was MEAN!
R33 the only thing Biden even came CLOSE to losing was his temper. Accept it and movr on
Joltin' Joe ruled the night. Not only was he aggressive- he used (what's that word the Republicans hate?)- facts.
The Republic Party is a huge threat to the civil rights of ALL gay people in this country. They are intent on rolling back and undoing all of the progress we have made in the last four years and they are determined to have us constitutionally defined as second-class citizens.
Backed by a reactionary Supreme Court, that would be our future.
I laughed right along with Biden. He couldn't control himself. When he heard some of the utter "malarkey" coming from Ryan, he just had to laugh. It was great that the format enabled Ryan to be pressed for details about what they would do differently and foreign policy and his answers came around to essentially "nothing different, but we would've done it better".
I've slept on it and I think the lingering effect from last night will be not be any debating points won or lost but instead will be how Biden conducted himself.
I think Biden made an ass out of himself.(again)
Four years ago I wanted Obama to choose Kerry as VP. He can be annoying, but Kerry certainly has more gravitas than Biden.
I'm a little embarrassed having Biden as Vice President.
Sorry, but this is how I feel.
You should be sorry.
Left wing democrat here.
I've slept on it too and I think that what we'll take away is the Joe Biden commanded the debate. There is no easy way to react when someone changes positions, flip-flops, and lies. Joe was tremendous and called him on a lot of bullshit - including his acceptance of stimulus money, his lack of any sort of foreign policy plan other than criticizing, and that he was part of a Congress that put two wars on a credit card.
Four years ago I was hoping that Obama would select Hillary Clinton as Vice President. Instead she is an excellent Secretary of State.
I'm proud this morning to have Biden as Vice President.
[quote] Democrat here.
Surest sign of a freeper troll is a post that begins with this statement.
I can't help but think that people like R63 (And I don't mean to single you out R63) would have been saying the same thing about Obama if he had been more 'forceful' in his debate with Romney. The headlines would have been:
"Obama smug in first debate"
"Obama angry in first debate"
"Obama mocks Romney in first debate"
I don't usually believe in conspiracy theories, but I do believe that there is a desire to make this race close by whomever wants this race to be close and the media plays its part by not giving a complete picture. Fox News is going to be Fox News, but you would expect better from CNN.
My intuition tells me that Biden has a TIGHT hole.
I think it's time for a little shut eye for you, hon.
There was no clear winner. They both accomplished what they were sent in to do. Biden to re-energize the Dems after Obama's lackluster performance, and Ryan to do well enough to not stall Romney's (perceived?) momentum. In the end, no one's going to vote for Obama or Romney based on the VP debate.
btw, is there a thread here where we can have a sane discussion about politics without being labeled a freeper or be told to die in a grease fire if we don't agree with the Dems or call them out on some issue?
It's amazing how thin-skinned Ryan is. Anyone criticizing or questioning him gets a reaction that is way more than necessary.
Joe was laughing at everything that came out of Ryan's mouth that was untrue. He corrected when he could but it was a signal to the people - "there he goes again."
Joe was magnificent.
R67 I never would have agreed with you until this morning when I reviewed how various MSM outlets regarded the VP debates.
r70, wrong. Biden wiped the floor with Ryan.
What debate were you watching.
Lifelong liberal Democrat here.
As much as I love Obama and voted for him in 2008 and donated money to his campaign, I'm afraid that Biden was a disaster last night. Obviously, Ryan won the debate. Mark my words: It's over. There's no way Obama can win now.
I will be voting for Romney. And I would encourage everyone else to either vote for Romney or simply not vote at all. As a lifelong Democrat (Nobody is more liberal than me!), it absolutely PAINS me to say this, but there you go.
By the way, did I mention that I'm a lifelong Democrat?
P.S. Don't bother replying to this post because I don't visit this site very often. I've got other message boards to visit now.
R70, there are Log Cabin-friendly sites where you can do that. Most of us on DL don't like the Republican party and the way it treats us. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Join me and Joe in laughing at R75!
It seems that the "I'm a Democrat BUT blah blah blah" trolls are out in force today.
No, they are not Democrats and did not vote for Obama in 2008.
I thought Biden came off a little silly in the beginning but once he got serious, he was very forceful. That smoothed out his entire performance. He schooled Ryan.
Ryan's strategy was "filibuster". Start talking and keep talking and make Biden interrupt you. The only way to win a "debate" like that is to show the moderator your exasperation (Martha, I'm talking to you), react to the lies and interrupt.
Obama took the polite approach and it was deemed a disaster (though I thought he won on substance.)
Why, yes! As a lifelong liberalist Democrat, [bold]I TOO[/bold] believe that the Democrat party hates American and wishes to destroy it/her! Plus, everybody knows that Democrats are Communistic drug-smoking hippies who let Muslims play with their shame-holes in their spare time.
I say this out of tough love, as a lifelong leftist Democrat.
Fox & Fiends resident Republicunt Gretchen Carlson suggests Ryan should ‘just deck’ Biden. Fair and Balanced!
R75 dropped a turd and left. The problem with his logic is that he has none.
During the debate, Joe Biden gave me lady wood!
[quote] [R75] dropped a turd and left. The problem with his logic is that he has none.
No, I haven't left yet. I've decided to spend a little more time here at The DataLog. I enjoy sharing my wisdom with others like me who are lifelong liberals and members of the Democrat Party.
I could never stand Biden but he's on my team and I will defend him. Ryan deserves nothing but the "mean" and derision. If the rethuglicans can use mean and derision as a policy against those who are weaker and more vulnerable then we can use it against this weak minded tool.
And will people stop referring to Ryan as if he were good looking or sexy. He is weirdly unattractive. If he is your dream man then you have serious self esteem issues.
Just so I'm clear:
When Obama stood there silent as Mitt told lie after lie after lie, he was a wimp who got his ass handed to him -- but when Paul sits there silent as Joe takes apart Mitt/Ryan's lie after lie after lie, Paul was "dignified." Do I have this right?
Paul had NO response that wasn't a lie or deflection. Every answer that didn't involve a lie was "we wouldn't have done that." He gave no specifics on what they would do, but still attacked Obama.
Some of you have grown so accustomed to Republican bullies and liars getting away with acting like bullies and liars, that you've developed a sort of Stockholm syndrome where you think they should be allowed to act that way without a liberal calling them out for what they are - laughable.
They tell lies that are only worthy of laughter because they're so outrageous. You may want to take their shit, but thank God Joe doesn't and didn't. I only wish it was Mitt out there with Joe.
Obama is not the kind of guy who wants to trumpet what he has done to stop this country from driving off a cliff - with an opposing party who fucks with the breaks.
The Republican party deserves no respect in 2012. None. From the day Obama took office, the GOP made their party the top priority, not the country.
I'll admit this: When I was watching, I did think he laughed a little too much, but then I started to remember all of the lies and conspiracies and outright insanity on the right then I thought: How could one not laugh at what they've become?
To the people claiming he was a "meanie": Suck it up, princesses. Joe gave the GOP exactly what they deserved.
It's amazing how the right wingers all get their talking points from Fox news then fan out and spread their bullshit in unison.
Focusing on Biden's laughs and facial expressions in a DEBATE??? Are you kidding me?
If only progressives were as disciplined about sticking to their own script.
UK DL-er here, Anerican abroad, just finished watching the debate. I like Joe Biden, I have liked Joe Biden since he chaired the Thomas hearings in the early '90s and I thought his performance last night was brilliant. He was a little fuzzy on Libya but when Romney/Ryan attempt to hit him hard on that, for some reason, all I can think of is Condi Rice in that 9/11 hearing attempting to dismiss something as obvious as an intel report from a month before that truly horrific event entitled BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE WITHIN THE U.S. I assume most sensible Americans of a certain age have a similar sense of proportion.
The gravest part of the debate was the abortion section. It's pretty clear what the GOP is promising to their lunatic base and it would be disastrous for women, gay men and lesbians.
Ryan was at his worst on taxes, health care and his foreign policy decisions sounded like they were right out of the Saran Palin "brush up yer Shakespeare" play book. He lacked the ability to expand on any of his FP policy positions and failed to demonstrate any credible opposition to Obama's positions. They are clearly beating a snare drum for war with Iran.
I look forward to Obama sealing the deal on Tuesday night.
AMEN, r85, AMEN!
Thank you, R87. Well said.
[quote]dropped a turd and left. The problem with his logic is that he has none.
You need to tune your sarcasm detector. R75 was a spoof, and a pretty good one at that.
R63, on the other hand, was most definitely not.
"I don't visit this site very often. I've got other message boards to visit now."
I would imagine those sites would include FoxNews.com, NazisRUs.com and Freerepublic.com."
Don't let the door hit your skank ass on the way out.
Ryan couldn't wait to get out the "mangled words" (or hoever he said it) boffo zinger. Sure, he got laughs, but Joe got the final line:
I say what I mean.
Don't leave out the best part, R95: "like Romney"
Ladies, it's all rigged. They work for corporations, Israel and the military - and if they don't, they're executed!
How can you possibly believe in election results after everything we've been shown? Red, blue - they are all in it together. Reading from their script.
This is "reality" tv, nothing more.
Fasten your seatbelt...
Ryan aka Eddie Munster - always looks like he's sitting on a dildo with that smirk.
Biden is the best thing that happened to Obama's administration. End of discussion.
>>I am kind of worried some voters will agree with op.
Exactly. The debates are for people who are undecided. Biden came off as a jackass. So disappointing.
For his closing statement serious Ryan finally turned to the camera fully revealing his Eddie Munster haircut and Dumbo ears. We couldn't stop laughing.
What did he say?
And Mitt was wonderful when we lied and interrupted Lehrer and changed the rules. So powerful and forceful as that wimp stood quiet and took it!
Biden is brilliant and Ryan is a fool. That's simply the way it is.
Biden provided the "zing" factor lacking in Obama's presentation. Apparently, people are impressed by that. This is just what the campaign needed.
The shots that got me were the ones with Ryan looking at Biden like a teenybopper in love.
Paul Ryan...a monster to workers. A piece of shit, nothing more.
I see the freepers are out in full force today here and on Fox News.
You know what, Ryan deserves to be called out and derided for his statements.
And one thing it seems freepers love to overlook is that the Romney/Ryan plan has no substance that is readily evident. It is just lurching from position to position to try to appeal to voters.
I wish that Jolting Joe Biden would have brought up that Paul Ryan gets his ideas from that nutcase Ayn Rand! Yep, what a great mind Ryan has!
Ryan looked like such a twerp last night, especially with that annoying stupid smug thin lipped grin on his face. He also has such dead looking scary eyes.
Fuck the GOP. Fuck them right up the ass. We've been nice and good and kind and polite for 4 years and all we've gotten is more shit. It's about time Biden fought fire with fire. I hope Obama does the same.
NOBODY LIKES A NANCY-PANTS PUSSY. The stakes are too high. It's time to get dirty.
[quote]I wish that Jolting Joe Biden would have brought up that Paul Ryan gets his ideas from that nutcase Ayn Rand!
He should have done that after Martha made the fuss about how Catholic both candidates are.
Oh, hell. How else was Biden supposed to act when the little shit was sitting there in his parallel universe lying his tight ass off.
And don't be fooled by that little phoney's choir boy pose. He had his sarcasm-laced zingers ready but he could only get a couple of them in. Biden was ready for them.
The closing where Ryan talking about how the opposition lacked experience or a record of achievement and so they had to lie, was laughable. I spewed my coke out on that one myself. Oh, the irony.
I was fascinated by watching Joe talking to Little Pauley's Mom. You could tell she was chastising him for roughing up her boy and he smiled sweetly at her and said, "Go fuck yourself, you old battle ax!"
Elect him and you will find out just how mean Paul Ryan really is. Go ahead, assholes.
That's where democrats are still making mistakes, they are trying to treat Repugs as if they are ladies and gentlemen and worthy of respect. There is nothing to respect, might as well treat them like the idiots they are. They understand bullies and we should be bulling the shit out of them, they are spineless and will behave like any other spineless person...do what they are told.
Paul's family seems very happy and well-adjusted. That says a lot about a man. I'm not sure I'd actually vote Republican, but he does seem like a good man with good values.
[quote] I'm not sure I'd actually vote Republican
r114. They are paying too much. You are TERRIBLE!
[quote]Paul's family seems very happy and well-adjusted.
I'm guessing he's not home much.
STFU r114. Is Joe Biden's family NOT happy and well adjusted? Is he not a good man with good values? Cram it with walnuts, shitstain.
Notice how Biden was rude, condescending and matter-of-fact, and won the debate? It's because nobody wants to vote for weak people. Sorry, Obama is weak and he needs to play dirty to win the respect of independent voters.
Joe Biden last night proved it's not the just the message vote for, it's the delivery. Obama, deliver your message with the intensity of Joe Biden and you will win this election.
Kindness gets you dry fucked up the ass.
In reality, he's like any fascist pig who takes his orders from Corporations. They are all the same, heartless.
I like when Biden kept telling them to "get out of our way"..
R114 = Mary Sunshine
"Paul's family seems very happy and well-adjusted. That says a lot about a man. I'm not sure I'd actually vote Republican, but he does seem like a good man with good values."
Ryan's entire m.o. is "I got mine, fuck you." What part of you are not a member of Ryan's "happy family" and he doesn't give a shit about you, are you not understanding?
Romney wants to run a $5 trillion deficit. He wants to increase the military enormously after we leave Afghanistan, for no reason, even though the Joint Chiefs are against it. He has never given a straight answer about whether he plans to go to war with Iran or Syria, other than to hint and hint that's exactly what he plans to do.
Planning to bulk up the military on ground war expenses is exactly what it would take, and that's what he plans to do. Ryan talked about needing tanks. This isn't WWII. Obama continues to use unmanned drones, no matter how disliked they are, because it means no American boots on the ground. He's also got the CIA sending computer viruses to Iran's nuclear plants, with considerable success. You may not hear about it on the news, but you're not supposed to. The most expensive military costs are men and their supplies. It all points to Romney starting at least one war to ensure his re-election. And you think Ryan's family proves he has morals?
Are you willing to go get ripped apart and tortured to death in Iran? You go first.
R114, LOL. Go back to ivillage or wherever you're from. How well adjusted can you be when you have his beliefs? How good a man can you be when you have his beliefs about helping or not helping his fellow man? Now happy I can buy. He's as happy as any other selfish hypocritical rethug living in a world that caters to his own kind.
R114, he has little kids. What exactly were you expecting to see, track marks on their arms? Jesus, are you a frau.
There are a lot of politicians who have good families or at least the appearance of a good family.
Here's the difference: He doesn't give a shit about YOUR family.
Paul Ryan -when talking about abortion- mentioned his own experience with his own child.
He's too myopic to comprehend that not every pregnancy is a God damned Hallmark card.
cute little baby "bean"!
I bet R114 thought the Sanduskies were great for taking in all those unwanted kids.
I don't think people want to get in a contest to see which politicians have raised better adjusted kids.
r113 and r118 hit the nail on the head. You can't be polite with the GOP or you'll be mowed down and plowed under.
Geez, I was just making a comment about his family. No need to rake me over the coals. I pretty much identify as a liberal and I don't agree with much of the Republican platform. And I wasn't implying that Biden's family isn't happy or that he's not a good family man. It's just that you guys have been relentlessly negative about Ryan and his character to the point of extreme hyperbole IMO, and I just wanted to make the point that he's not the epiotome of evil. That is all.
This is a man who was able to go to college and support himself because the government was there for him when HE needed it, but he doesn't want that for others so they can have their own "very happy and well-adjusted family," R114.
Seriously, you have to grow the hell up and stop being so simplistic.
He doesn't want that for others, R131? How? He got help for college under the widows/orphans condition of SS. Basically, when one spouse dies and leaves behind minors, then the minors can collect a portion of the dead parent's SS up until age 18, or 22 if full time college. Ryan is going to remove that if elected? I THINK they're proposing allowing an opt-out for young people if they so choose, but they would still have to have a retirement plan if they do opt out of SS. I never heard about them planning to pull the widows/orphans plan...
Anybody hear Limbaugh this morning (yes, I monitor him during KTLK commercials) calling Biden "BOORISH"?
Yup. I almost drove off Beverly Blvd.
Rush Limbaugh, who's made a career out of being boorish.
Awwwww....well, ain't that just too bad! Cry me a river. And Paul Ryan and his Republicans are gonna be a HECK of a lot meaner to LGBTs!!!
R132, you're talking about a specific program, I'm talking about the government over all. You realize not everyone falls under the "orphan" category, but still needs help, right?
I do understand the general point, R135 - but I've ALWAYS wanted to be released from the social security grip. I've always found it terribly problematic. I'm all for pitching in to a fund that helps the aged, underprivileged, and those who are beset with tragedy (loss of a parent while still a minor, etc.) But, for my own PERSONAL retirement, I am all for having the opt-out option. Let me manage my own retirement investment if I so choose - that is my personal freedom of choice with my own earned income. Also, I don't understand why we allow millionaires to collect social security when they retire. I think that after retirement, you should be made to "qualify" each year for benefits based on a reasonable test ( say $250,000 income or less ). If you have millions rolling in from other sources, then why should you draw a check from the gov't.? I don't care what you paid in, blah blah blah. You may have paid in all your life, but if you're RICH when you retire, you forfeit what you paid in. Roosevelt never intended SS to be a retirement plan anyway. It was conceived to help widows and orphans from the WW II dead. It was originally intended to go away after a generation or so ( don't have the exact facts on that ). But like everything else, once it was started, it was impossible to terminate. If you are a young worker ( 18 - 55 ) then I don't see how you could ever argue AGAINST the opt-out concept.
yeah. R130. he's one of the nice homophobes. lole you I guess.
How do you respond to gay friends that are going to vote for Romney, I have told them I'm ashamed of them but that means nothing. I have one gay male and one lesbian that post all this pro-Romney shit on facebook
R137, before Social Security, the majority of elderly were poor. Now they're not. That's what Social Security means.
When the stock market dropped around the dot com bust era, a coworker was forced to retire, right at the exact moment his 401K's value dropped about 50%. No choice. He had saved for 30 years. His private stock investments dropped too. He had no choice but to leave the home he had lived in for many years, because he couldn't afford to live in SF any more, and move to a cheaper town where he knew no one. This was a guy who had scrimped and saved and never spent money on luxuries. He owned his own home.
Of course, that could never happen to you because you're just too special, right?
R137, you remind me of Libertarian jerk-off Curt Schilling who was so self-sufficient that when he fucked up on his investment, he expected the government to bail him out.
romney and ryan, both, are psychopaths.
R139, I know of a self-loathing gay who was posting all of this crap about Romney defending his charitable deductions not acknowledging that they were to the Mormon Church (required) and that those helped pass Prop 8 in California.
I and a few others called him out and defriended him. I have no use for someone like that.
[quote]before Social Security, the majority of elderly were poor. Now they're not. That's what Social Security means.
Social security pays peanuts...if that is all an elderly person has when they retire...they are still poor.
I agree with whoever said Ryan looks like Ma Kettle in drag...
What did you expect from Limbaugh? An acknowledgement that Biden bested Ryan? Why listen to him and get your blood pressure up?
"Paul's family seems very happy and well-adjusted."
He's a fucking Catholic, a religion in which the members let pedophiles run amok and spend hundreds of millions of dollars protecting and defending these same pedophiles. How well adjusted is that?
I don't get what the fuck people are afraid of. Period. You know Barack Obama now. You know Joe Biden. You have four years of achievement to look at. This man walked into a shit mess. We were on the verge of a complete financial collapse. Do you even realize what that meant? I live in Ohio.
I live in a very middle class to affluent neighborhood. A lot of small business owners, university professors, accountants, educators, mid level and higher level manufacturing managers, etc.
The foreclosures, the layoffs, business closings, were devastating. We still haven't fully recovered. It was a nightmare starting from about 2006 until this year. You could actually feel the fear and the tension.
People who've never know economic hardship were homeless. Can you even get your arms around the concept of this country losing more than 700,000 jobs in one month the way January, 2009 was?
Can you imagine what it was like for a small businessman not to be able to get credit from the bank to make his payroll? The banks froze all lending for months.
Obama walked into that situation. Bush's emergency stimulus bill passed with no strings attached. Obama's second stimulus had strings attached. The banks have paid back their stimulus money. With Interest. That's not fiction it's fact.
The stock market is healthy again, job growth is slow, but it is happening, unemployment is coming down, under 8% for the first time in more than four years! Banks are lending, people are starting to spend.
Obama has helped with student loans, he's cut taxes for small business owners,he signed the law for women to get equal pay, he passed healthcare reform that allows parents to keep kids on their healthcare until they reach the age of 25-26. Do you know how important that is?
Obama has given seniors better Medicare coverage while saving more than $716billion by cutting costs thru insurers and big pharma and not in anyway harming Seniors. He's cut taxes for the middle class and wants to cut them more. The deficit has gone down two trillion dollars.
The Republicans want to get rid of him because he makes them look bad. He's worked hard,and done so much good in four short years and with tons of opposition to over come,it's staggering what he's been able to accomplish. As Joe Biden loves to say," Osama Bin Laden is dead, and General Motors is alive!"
So the GOP convinces people to vote against their own interests. There's no reason not to vote for Obama. None. Romney and Ryan, as was obvious last night, only know how to attack and criticize. They are small people with small vision. That's why they had to have laws passed in the GOP to suppress the vote.
They propose nothing. They're laughably ignorant and won't divulge their plans because "the opposition will just criticize us." How stupid are the American people? They will vote for someone who exploits their fears and convinces them they are discouraged, disappointed and dissatisfied. Yet, they offer you nothing.
They're going to roll back the modest regulations for Wall Street, they will roll back anything resembling cuts to big pharma or the gas & oil folks. They're not going to tax their friends.
They'd rather borrow money from China to fund tax cuts for the wealthy and wars for their big defense contractors then fund education, Medicare or scientific research & development.
Obama ended DADT, and supports Gay marriage. He supports a woman's right to choose. The next President will appoint at least two Supreme Court justices. The Extreme Right sees complete victory finally within their sights.
If they win, there will be no chance the SCOTUS will overturn Citizens United. We will be fully owned.We will have no more free & fair elections. How anyone could willingly participate in their own destruction baffles me.There is no rational reason to vote for Romney. None.
Love you, R150.
[quote]then I don't see how you could ever argue AGAINST the opt-out concept.
Easy. It's a defined benefit plan with no risk. It's basic insurance.
Look, the bottom line is that it's a safety net. It's not designed to let you live in luxury. It's designed to provide a basic foundation on which to grow your retirement. If you're one of the less fortunate, it *is* your retirement. Or your disability benefit. Or your survivor benefit.
And the bottom line is that it works. Compare today to life before Social Security as it exists today and it's easy to see why it's popular.
[quote]but he does seem like a good man with good values.
The "values" of destroying the safety net for the entire United States? The "values" of paying for massive tax cuts for the wealthy by the largest transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class that we've ever had? The "values" of taking away health care from tens of millions of people? Those "values?"
It's not just popular with Seniors. It's popilar for struggling families who are trying to deal with college tuition and parents who are elderly. Because without Social Security and Medicare that cost would be passed on to families.
But in all honesty, it wasn't a debate as much as a joint public appearance.
After Obama was put in the dirt in the first debate Biden's marching orders must have been to dominate the debate. Instead he was rude and obnoxious. He was really irritating and acted like an asshole.
r150 for the win.
Kisses,r150. I need to print that verbatim and stand on every street corner handing out fliers.
[quote]He was really irritating and acted like an asshole.
Nope, he acted like a guy who had had enough of the bullshit and wasn't going to take anymore.
Funny how the people who think Biden was "irritating" can't seem to come up with anything of substance to complain about.
Biden, like Rmoney was dominating in the debate, with a huge exception...Biden used truth based facts followed up with his own progression of achievement.
Rude and obnoxious = lying to the American people = Ryan
Standing up for the American people = Calling out the liar = Biden
I find it interesting that all the Republicans are outraged at Biden's rude behavior, at his interrupting the weasel's lies, at his smiling and condescension -- BUT they LOVE that fat fuck Chris Christie (the most slovenly, uncouth, gross, disrespectful politician in my lifetime. These assholes have no bounds in regard to their silly hypocrisy. Obviously, they never listen to themselves speak (which is really the only sensible thing that can do).
R156's breasts are rotting.
To me it's the best attack there is. Point and laugh and then come up with actual facts that back up your point of view.
Paul Ryan deserves no respect for being a stupid liar (since everybody sees through his lies the moment they pass his lips) and a political douchebag.
Hey, Paul Ryan would have been rude and obcoxious if he'd been given the chance!
Not ONE Republican/FOX/Beck/Limbaugh/CNN/et al. criticism of Joe Biden's debate performance included the claim that Biden lied, or even "misspoke."
Does no-one find that omission to be incredibly damning of Ryan??
Biden was just wrong for calling out Ryan like that about the letters he sent begging for stimulus money ... LOVED IT! Highlight of the debate for me.
R165, you are incorrect.
Info all over as Joe's big mouth spewed lies on the Libyan murders and Iran uranium enrichment.
You know the Libya attack was tragic. It was chaotic and terrible and they are investigating it and tracking down the perpws. One thing Americans can count on. When President Obama says he will bring them to justice. He will bring them to justice.
As for Iran, other countries, more than 49 of them at last count are closely monitoring Iran because no one wants them to acquire the capability of having operational nuclear weapons.
All those countries have brought their collective resources to bear and WE, are all monitoring Iran. If Iran were even close to weaponizing nuclear power, we'd know it. There would be an outcry such as you have never seen.
Right now there are severe sanctions being imposed on Iran. Severe Sanctions. Those sanctions are crippling Iran. For all the saber rattling, it is clear to most people in the rest of the world that Iran is going down. Only some warmongering assholes in the Neo Con camp want to scare us into a war. Cheney and his mushroom clouds redux.
Paul Ryan's stupidity, his inexperience and his limitations in the foreign policy arena were on full display at the debate. His sophomoric recitration of the carious regions of Afghanistan was laughably transparent.
Having said that, I would also point out that the American people are preoccupied with what's happening here at home. Kitchen Table issues.
So with all due respect, Obama/Biden has a track record and accomplished more good that will directly imporve people's lives, than anything in the vague, dishonest proposals and convoluted plans Ryan articulated so poorly at the debate. Fuck Romney and fuck Ryan. But don't vote for them!
Well, r167, how about then you find the PDB titled "Terrorists Determined to Strike US Consulate at Benghazi" and its six brethren that Obama ignored?
As they say, every life is sacred, but compared to Bush's 9/11/01 3000+ (as a starter course to many more deaths, not even counting New Orleans) and Reagan's 241 dead Marines in Beirut, the number at Benghazi pales, and your crocodile tears and faux-umbrage are beneath contempt.
Link please, R169.
The left was happy with Biden.
The right was happy with Ryan.
Undecideds were turned off by Biden's behavior.
That said, nobody's voting for the VP.
Result? Big waste of time.
Actually the undecideds are turned off by the smell of r171's rotting freepertwat, but I digress.
Biden was a diva. A diva that was able to back up the diva act with actual talent.
GOP is politicizing a tragedy - quelle surprise!
I'm sure the neo cons are currently looking for a way to capitalize on this tragedy for yet another war.
"How to blame Iran for this one?"
Undecideds loved Biden's vigor and honesty. This is causing the Reich to panic.
Biden dropped the ball from tweeting live: 'Have the best seat in the house of that big premier performance of that new stand up comedian Paul Ryan. Maybe some of you heard of him? *LOL*
Link to what, r170? There was no such PDB. Do you not get parody/sarcasm?
Unless you mean a link to the 241 dead Marines, in which case, Google.
It wasn't a big waste of time at all. The VP debate brought up abortion in a way that is impossible to ignore. Romney/Ryan would end a woman's right to choose, end her control over her own body and reproductive choices. That is huge.
It also brought up Medicare and Social Security in ways that cannot be ignored. Romney/Ryan would turn Medicare into a voucher system and privatize Social Security. It could not be any more clear.
It was a huge loss for Republicans and a huge win for Democrats on Thursday. Huge.
I'm sick of abortion....just keep your legs closed.
Tell me again how Biden was too agressive? Our [italic]last[/italic] VP shot a guy in the face!
The very best passage in that article linked to Matt Tiaibbi in Rolling Stone is this part:
"Sometimes in journalism I think we take the objectivity thing too far. We think being fair means giving equal weight to both sides of every argument. But sometimes in the zeal to be objective, reporters get confused. You can't report the Obama tax plan and the Romney tax plan in the same way, because only one of them is really a plan, while the other is actually not a plan at all, but an electoral gambit."
"The Romney/Ryan ticket decided, with incredible cynicism, that that they were going to promise this massive tax break, not explain how to pay for it, and then just hang on until election day, knowing that most of the political press would let it skate, or at least not take a dump all over it when explaining it to the public. Unchallenged, and treated in print and on the air as though it were the same thing as a real plan, a 20 percent tax cut sounds pretty good to most Americans. Hell, it sounds good to me."
"The proper way to report such a tactic is to bring to your coverage exactly the feeling that Biden brought to the debate last night: contempt and amazement. We in the press should be offended by what Romney and Ryan are doing – we should take professional offense that any politician would try to whisk such a gigantic lie past us to our audiences, and we should take patriotic offense that anyone is trying to seize the White House using such transparently childish and dishonest tactics."
I'm sick of men telling women to keep their legs closed, R179. Don't put your dick in there and there won't be any baby.
If Ryan gets anywhere near a seat of power, young women ought to get themselves sterilzed. It's their only chance not to be forced to be baby machines, willing or not. Ryan wants raped women that have an abortion with a coat hanger to be charged with murder one.
In the current PBS series, Call the Midwife, set in 1957, a character mentions that there are 80-100 babies born every month in the poor neighborhood they serve. One of the pregnant mothers already has 24 children. The same neighborhood had 5-8 births a month five years later, when birth control pills became widely available in the area. That's how many of those babies were actually wanted out of the previous total. It's based on a true story.
It's a good series to watch if you want to know what the world will be like when Paul Ryan and his ilk take power.
Keep it in your pants.
Thank God Joe was more restrained than Dick Cheney.
Cheney would have shot him in the face and told him to go fuck himself.