- Meryls versatility, her uncanny knack for accents and mastery at creating so many disparate characters puts far ahead of any actor working today. No im not the meryl troll! I adore both meryl and jessica. Jessica i think excels at playing bitchy, wounded and neurotic characters. I think all the accolades she won for american horror story were a bit much. I found her to be campy and over the top but funny as hell to watch. Will be anxious to see what she does in season 2. I just cant imagine really any actress pulling off what meryl has accomplished in 35 years of film.
- Jessica is the best. No contest.
- There are no reasons. Lange's the better actress. Streep's gotten tired.
- M
M
- Her face doesn't look like it's taken a direct hit by a Molotov cocktail.
Melting%20
- M doesn't appear to be drugged out of her mind all the time.
- I'd say it's the voice, mainly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpMzoNO3wdY4
- It is hard to compare them because their respective processes are soo very different.
Meryl is a technically gifted actress who has a tremendous amount of self discipline within her craft. Like when she played Margaret Thatcher, you just knew darned well that she probably never complained about her makeup or anything and just embraced it all as part of her overall process for the role.
Jessica Lange is a raw and feral actress. She feels things inwardly and uses her (non circus related) mime training to great affect with that. Like in the last season of "American Horror Story" where her daughter has died and Constance is at the morgue, she barely spoke in that scene because she did not have to since she showed her compassion for her daughter outwardly.
They are both just two wildly different actresses with two wildly different techniques. It is hard to pick a favorite or compare them.
- M clearly has the more devoted mental-case fans.
- Meryl lost the part of Patsy Cline in Sweet Dreams Jessica Lange.
TPTB felt Meryl would be mis-cast, but gave her the benefit of the doubt if she submitted to a test in full wardrobe and make-up.
Feeling it would be insulting to test, Streep demurred.
Lange had no problem testing, and got the part.
Moral of the story, one always has to test.
- F&F
- She's not. She's just a better mimic :)
- Meryl lost the part because Patsy was conventionally pretty; Meryl is NOT. But I do think Meryl was exceptional looking in Sophie's Choice. It was reminiscent of Bette Davis in Mr. Skeffington; she became beautiful by sheer force of will.
- Neither is the greatest. Both are great actresses but get far too much adulation.
If you want to watch someone immerse themselves in a role, you need to study Karen Black. The woman is so underrated it isn't even funny.
Laurie Metcalf could mop the floor with Jessica Lange any day of the week. She excels at the neurosis, but is also able to provide the grounded sanity that Lange lacks in most of her movies.
Other great American actresses:
Jane Fonda
Shirley Maclaine
Debra Winger
Patty Duke
Ellen Burstyn
- R14, Jane Fonda? Quite possibly the most overrated actress of her time. Most of her performances are completely wooden. She wouldn't have had a fraction of the career that she did if her last name weren't Fonda.
- Check it out, y'all!
http://lmgtfy.com/%3Fq%3Drecovered+baptist+blog
PPSM%20FOREVER
- Are you serious? Jessica Lange is way better than M, everybody knows that.
- r14 is hilarious. Karen Black! Fonda!
Debra "one-trick" Winger.... omg.
Laurie Metcalf does NOT disappear into a role, quite the opposite... she peeks through her performance, winking at the audience.
In any case, I agree with r1 and r6.
Jessica Lange is a good actress, but very, very limited in range compared to Streep, who truly embodies the word "range".
Lange gives the SAME spaced-out performance every.single.time. -- from Tootsie to Music Box to Blue Sky to AHS. She's acting on quaaludes.
It's fun to watch now and again, but she really does need to stretch herself a bit more. Then again... maybe that lies outside of her capabilities?
NO other actress could have convincingly portrayed characters as disparate as Miranda Priestley, the nun in Doubt, Julia Child, and Margaret Thatcher, all within a time span of just six years.
Certainly not Jessica Lange, and most certainly not Karen Black or Debra Winger.
You know it, I know it.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- [quote]Laurie Metcalf could mop the floor with Jessica Lange any day of the week
What on earth have you been smoking?
- You know nothing R16.
Your ridiculous devotion to Streep makes your attempts to be intellectual all the more one dimensional and elementary.
Her Julia Child and Thatcher were basic. How amusing that you think it was great acting. Many could have done those roles the same or better. Even by her standards, Child and Thatcher were nowhere near the heights of her best work. It's laughable to keep touting the two as any sort of real achievements.
As for Karen Black, it's obvious you haven't watched any of her movies. FIVE EASY PIECES, GREAT GATSBY, TRILOGY OF TERROR, NASHVILLE, DAY OF THE LOCUST, JIMMY DEAN, CAN SHE BAKE A CHERRY PIE? Black can dive into a role and fully inhabit a character.
No "click-click" and wheels turning with her.
- I think it's actually quite easy to build a hierarchy, when it comes to range:
Meryl is indisputably in a league of her own.
After that come Jessica Lange and Glenn Close - formidable talents, but with a more limited range. Add Isabelle Huppert and Vanessa Redgrave to that mix.
Marion Cotillard and Cate Blanchett might move up to Meryl's leage one day, time will tell.
The third tier would be actresses who've given one or two good performances over the years, but who otherwise just play a variation of their selves, or who tend to peek through their performances: Jane Fonda, Sally Field, Shirley MacLaine, Winger, Diane Keaton, Jodie Foster, Sigourney Weaver, Cher, Kathleen Turner, Anjelica Huston, and even Maggie Smith, who has played the same role since 1969.
At the bottom would be those who haven't even managed one good performance, but who were given a million opportunities to do so: Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman come to mind.
And finally, tragic cases like Faye Dunaway and Patty Duke. They exist outside this universe.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- r20, the critics were all over Streep's Julia Child. You might want to call the New York Film Critics Circle "laughable" too, then. Or the BAFTA members, the SAG voters, Boston Film Critics, London Film Critics, the list is endless.
She absolutely nailed a difficult part, and should have received an Academy Award for it.
And Karen Black.... um, no words.
Except: maybe you're a Scientologist?
That would explain a thing or two.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- R22 why does Meryl feel it is beneath her to screen test of even read for a part?
- r22 pulled that out of his ass, r23.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- Well R22, if today's "critics" praised her Julia Child, then it has to be taken seriously. We all know what an intellectual Ben Lyons is!
And if we're going to talk about accomplishments, then I have a few that she's noticeably missing from. Considering she's "in a league of her own".
Not one of her movies has made it into SIGHT AND SOUND magazine's list of the greatest films of all time. This list has been called the definitive representation of the best in cinema by countless film historians and scholars. Yet not one Meryl movie has ever made it onto the list.
And not one of her main movie roles has been selected by the Library of Congress to the National Film Registry, which preserves films that are culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant. DEER HUNTER and her cameo in MANHATTAN are in there. But not one film since then? Hmmm.
And why is she absent from from AFI's twenty five greatest female actresses list?
I'll give credit where it's due. Two well deserved oscars, two Emmys and a couple of NY film critics awards. And yeah, the Kennedy Center honor.
But when it comes to the big picture, and not "the moment" you have nothing to work with. But it's amusing for you to keep trying!
- R23 the Meryl loon actually thinks it knows Meryl Streep but doesn't know shit.
[quote]The third tier would be actresses who've given one or two good performances over the years, but who otherwise just play a variation of their selves, or who tend to peek through their performances: Jane Fonda, Sally Field, Shirley MacLaine, Winger, Diane Keaton, Jodie Foster, Sigourney Weaver, Cher, Kathleen Turner, Anjelica Huston, and even Maggie Smith, who has played the same role since 1969.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yes Meryl loon because you personally know these women so you know they are playing a "version of themselves". Maggie Smith has played the same role since 1969. That right there pretty much confirms you really are a fucking idiot.
[quote]After that come Jessica Lange and Glenn Close - formidable talents, but with a more limited range. Add Isabelle Huppert and Vanessa Redgrave to that mix.
LOL! Redgrave and Huppert are just as good, if not better then Streep. Add Jeanne Moreau, Harriet Anderson, BiBi Andersson, Judi Dench, Alfre Woodard, Kathy Bates, Helen Mirren, and Tilda Swinton to that list.
[quote]At the bottom would be those who haven't even managed one good performance, but who were given a million opportunities to do so: Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman come to mind.
Again you are talking out of your ass. I don't care for Kidman that much but she was great in To Die For, Rabbit Hole, Moulin Rouge, and Dogville.
[quote]the critics were all over Streep's Julia Child. You might want to call the New York Film Critics Circle "laughable" too, then. Or the BAFTA members, the SAG voters, Boston Film Critics, London Film Critics, the list is endless
The same NYFC group that awarded their Best Actress award to Reese Witherspoon and Cameron Diaz and nearly gave it to Faye Dunaway for Mommie Dearest.
- ^^ we both meant r10, obviously.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- But you guys still haven't answered the question. Why does Meryl think she doesn't have to test or read for movie part?
- Isabelle Huppert has played the same imperious bitch in every film of her career.
She's doing it with much depth, and she is talented - I believe she should get an Oscar nomination this year, for Amour. (But I don't think she will).
But in NO WAY is she as versatile as Streep.
Redgrave cannot do comedy.
Smith is the English Huppert: brittle, upper-class characters from day one.
Finally, it's "Bibi" not "BiBi", and "Anderson" not "Andersson".
And no, the talented Ms. Anderson is not as versatile as Streep.
Thanks for playing, anti-loon.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- r28: I have answered your question at r24.
r10 was lying.
- For Streep Troll
Andy Cohen - Was there ever a film you turned down and went to see and said, "Oh my God, I didn't do it!"
Streep - Yes, yes, that happened...there have been movies that I have really, really, really, really, really wanted to do but they didn't want me and I went to see the movie and I thought, "They were right." [...] I think of Sweet Dreams that Jessica Lange did with Karel Reisz - and he was a friend of mine [long funny pause] and he was the director and, yeah, he cast Jessica and I went to see that movie and I thought, "NOBODY can do that better." I mean, it was DIVINE.
http://awardsdailyforums.com/showthread.php%3F30785-MERYL-STREEP-praises-JESSICA-LANGE-%28for-quot-Sweet-Dreams-quot-%29-on-Andy-Cohen%21
- r25, we're not discussing Meryl the director, but Meryl the actress.
If ever she tries to direct a film, and SIGHT AND SOUND ignores it, you will have a point.
Right now, your argument is quite... nonsensical.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- Streep Troll Meryl was also turned down for 'The Remains of the Day' she wanted that part to, and thought she was a shoo-in (Mike Nichols was producing)
But it went to Emma Thompson who was red-hot at the time.
Streep and Nichols had a falling-out over that one, but they patched things up in the end.
- Oh and r25, you forgot:
Meryl also has a Cannes best actress award, and a plethora of critics awards every time she turns up for work.
Karen Black can't get arrested, but Meryl is considered a legend for the ages.
Yes, truth hurts - even for Scientologists like you.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- R28 Because Meryl probably gets most of her roles on name alone. Jessica nailed Patsy. Meryl wouldn't have been able to top it and she admitted as much.
And the troll is ignorant when it comes to Karen Black. EASY RIDER, NASHVILLE and FIVE EASY PIECES are considered some of the best films ever made some forty years after their release.
SOPHIE'S CHOICE, SILKWOOD, OUT OF AFRICA, HEARTBURN, BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY.......................
Not so much.
- r31, I know what she's said about Sweet Dreams. I'm not doubting her admiration of Lange's work in that film.
What's your point?
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- For Streep Troll
Meryl Streep on Jessica Lange
On Lange’s body
I wasted so many years thinking I wasn’t pretty enough and why didn’t I have Jessica Lange’s body or someone else’s legs? What a waste of time.”
On Lange living in Minnesota
Streep: Quality of life. I remember talking with Jessica Lange and saying, ‘You live where?’ And she said, ‘You don’t know, it’s great’ And it is pretty great. Very cosmopolitan. Great restaurants, vintage stores, I cleaned-up. My daughters were happy.
On Sweet Dreams
RC: It’s hard to imagine anyone else playing this character. Has there ever been a role that got away from you — for scheduling or whatever reason — that you look back and wish you could have done?
Streep: Yeah, but I probably wouldn’t have been as good as the person that did it.
ReelzChannelRC: Are you going to elaborate?
Streep: I’ve always loved Patsy Cline and I always wanted to do that story of her life. Jessica Lange did it and she was fantastic.
Have you ever envied anybody in your life?
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah! I envied Jessica Lange when she got Sweet Dreams. That was such a great movie; she was beyond wonderful in it.
What’s the role you wanted most that got away?
I really loved that movie that Jessica Lange made, (1985’s) “Sweet Dreams,” about Patsy Cline. But I wasn’t offered it, so it’s not like it really got away. It was Jessica’s from the beginning, even though (director Karel Reisz) was a good friend of mine. But I got his house in London in recompense when I was shooting (1985’s) “Plenty.” I said, “Well, if you weren’t going to pick me for that, the least you can do is give me your house in Hampstead.” And he did!
Was this before you’d proven you could sing in 1990’s “Postcards From the Edge”?
Oh, I don’t know. When I saw (“Sweet Dreams”) – this is the most important part of that story – I couldn’t imagine doing it as well or even coming close to what Jessica did because she was so amazing in it.
http://jessica-lange.tumblr.com/post/24525206777
- Again, why does Meryl think that testing or reading for a part is beneath her?
- R36 please answer R38
- Again, r33, I'm not saying Meryl has never been turned down for a role.
What is the point you're trying to make?
Emma Thompson was great in the film. They also chose her at a time where she was Hollywood's new it actress.
But in no way, shape or form is she as capabable overall as Meryl Streep.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- The Streep troll you do know that Meryl hated her part in the mini-series Holocaust. She said she only did it for the money.
- R32 The SIGHT AND SOUND lists are on the MOVIES and not the DIRECTORS. Many top name directors vote for the movies, but directing has nothing at all to do with the actual selection.
If she's as great as you claim she is, then clearly one of her movies would have made the list on her awesome talent alone.
Are you implying that she's not a good enough actress to elevate the movies she appears in?
Hepburn, Fonda, and Keaton have had movies make the list. Streep is supposed to be better than them. Yet she's been absent.
And please stop with the one dimensional strawman "Scientologist" nonsense. If you can't act like an adult, then maybe you shouldn't barge into these threads spouting your nonsense. I've clearly stated a simple point. And at least I'm not stating that Black is the best of all time.
- [quote]Isabelle Huppert has played the same imperious bitch in every film of her career.
Um no. Again, Meryl Loon you prove that you are talking out of your ass.
[quote]Redgrave cannot do comedy.
Honey, 2 good comedic performances in a career doesn't make one a great comedic actress. Teri Garr is a great comedic actress, Meryl Streep isn't. Streep can't do sensual or sexy.
[quote]Finally, it's "Bibi" not "BiBi", and "Anderson" not "Andersson".
Wrong again, Meryl loon. She's Swedish you moron and you obviously don't know her film work if you don't even know something as simple as her name.
[quote]Smith is the English Huppert: brittle, upper-class characters from day one
Brittle and upper crust is something that Meryl Streep has done very well as well isn't it dear. Good lord when you are trying to put down Maggie Smith, Bibi Andersson, and Isabelle Huppert, you know the Meryl loon has started to go insane.
[quote]Emma Thompson was great in the film. They also chose her at a time where she was Hollywood's new it actress.
Um no. Merchant and Ivory had already cast Thompson even before Howard's End was finished and didn't waiver in wanting Thompson.
- [quote]Finally, it's "Bibi" not "BiBi", and "Anderson" not "Andersson".
Proof that you are talking out of your ass and have no idea what you are talking about. If you don't even know how to spell her name then you can't expect anyone to take your opinion seriously.
[quote]Emma Thompson was great in the film. They also chose her at a time where she was Hollywood's new it actress.
More bullshit. She was offered the part BEFORE Howard's End was finished, and Merchant and Ivory never wavered with their decision to cast her.
[quote]Redgrave cannot do comedy.
Steep can't do sexy or sensual. A few good comedic performances doesn't make one a brilliant comedic actress. Catherine O'Hara and Teri Garr are great comedic actresses, Meryl Streep isn't.
[quote]Isabelle Huppert has played the same imperious bitch in every film of her career.
No but thanks for playing.
- Personally, I like to see actors take risks. I'd rather see an imperfect risky performance than a successful calculated one. And in that sense, I think Lange is ahead of Streep, who, perhaps, stays in her comfort zone a little too much.
I thought Streep's portrayal of Thatcher was impressive in how she captured the physicality of an old woman, but I didn't get any sense of there being an inner life, a person. This may have been one of Streep's most superficial performances, IMHO.
the%20opposite%20of%20what%20OP%20asked
- Isn't everyone sick and tired of arguing about how brilliant or how overrated Meryl Streep is? How many threads does this make? Are you actually covering any new ground?
- Jessica Lange cannot portray a person who is happy on the inside, such as Julia Child. She can only play damaged people.
Streep is the better actress, because she can play both.
Oh, and r45, re your statement:
"I'd rather see an imperfect risky performance than a successful calculated one. And in that sense, I think Lange is ahead of Streep, who, perhaps, stays in her comfort zone a little too much"
-- it's just the other way around. Lange has played the same character for 30 years, and hasn't left her comfort zone one bit, nor will she ever do that.
Streep, however, challenges herself with almost every new role. Sister Aloysius couldn't be more different than Julia Child who has nothing in common with Margaret Thatcher.
If anyone is hungry and fearless, it's Streep.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- r42: still a Scientologist.
If Karen Black is so talented, how come she hasn't had a bigger career? Or at least a following outside your cult?
Your argument collapses right there.
I'm sure soon you'll tell us Anne Archer and Kelly Preston are raw talent too.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- Judi Dench could eat a can of film a shit a better performance than Streep.
Really, she could.
She was voted "greatest actor of our time" - and really, she's better than Streep.
In fact, many Brit actresses are better than Streep. Streep's been embarrassing a couple of times, and proficient many times. She's also been brilliant.
But Thatcher was a campy joke - the other side of her "Doubt" coin. She couldn't cut it, and her accent - as any Brit will tell you - was ludicrous.
(Not ludicrous- her perfect Brit accent in "Plenty." She nailed that one - but in the end couldn't match Kate Nelligan onstage).
Before Doubt was Prada though - Streep brilliance. So brilliant she made us then she had slimmed down for the part and admitted she hadn't done any such thing. THAT"S brilliance. She's also wonderful in Marvin's Room, a movie many forget. And of course, The Dingo Ate My Baby, where she's heartbreaking. And "Postcards" - she knew exactly how to play it, not just in acting the part, but in modulating her performance around the movie star airs of Shirley MacLaine.
I've read (on DL) that Sophie's doesn't hold up well. I haven't seen it in years, so I don't know. But it was a tour de force if ever there was one.
A mixed bag for Ms. Streep - and her occasional poor choice of properties (hello, "Hope Springs" and that Edward Furlong tripe) - marks her career,. too.
Maybe one little notch about Glenn, but on the same plane with Lange.
- Remember Jessica had that big thick uncut Misha in her
- Oh, it's the Kate Nelligan troll again. Hi, Kate Nelligan troll!
As usual, you're wrong.
Let's see:
"She couldn't cut it, and her accent - as any Brit will tell you - was ludicrous."
Which, of course, is the reason the Brits praised her performance, and gave her a BAFTA.
Ha and ha on you!
Oh, and Judi Dench.... completely destroyed 'Notes on a Scandal'. Have you read the book by any chance? Dench transfigures the character into a total cliche.
Meryl Streep remains the most gifted and most intellectual actor working. Her instincts, insight and capabilities are stronger than either Lange's or Dench's.
Naturally, the Karen Black, Kate Nelligan and Patty Duke trolls can't handle that little fact. If your goddesses had the substance you assign them with, they would have had a career equalling that of, say, Jessica Lange, at the very least.
But... they don't!
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- [quote]"I'd rather see an imperfect risky performance than a successful calculated one. And in that sense, I think Lange is ahead of Streep, who, perhaps, stays in her comfort zone a little too much"
[quote]-- it's just the other way around. Lange has played the same character for 30 years, and hasn't left her comfort zone one bit, nor will she ever do that.
I am not talking about range. I am talking about how far is an actress willing to go into herself to show something authentic on screen. In my opinion; Swinton, Huppert, Adjani, Binoche and Lange are in their own exclusive club when it comes to that. But that's just how I experience them, and, obviously, different people feel differently.
A lot about acting is our visceral response to it (or part of our experience of any art, for that matter). And that's the personal in us that's hard to argue.
- I have no idea why Black hasn't had a bigger career. Many factors, I suppose. Getting older, not getting enough mainstream scripts or any at all.
Cute that you keep bringing up the Scientologist angle. Anything to keep from answering my questions. All of which you've managed to avoid.
Streep's movies have no longevity. Even the Streep troll knows this. That's why it refuses to even discuss the issue. Great actress, yes. But no classic movies that have held up for decades.
Clearly if I was wrong, this would have proven. But my facts obviously can not be argued with. That's why the avoidance of the issues, and the strawman arugements.
- My friends and I were sitting around yesterday having a casual conversation about how the one thing all great actors have in common is that they have all starred in at least one classic piece of cinema. For my good friend Al Pacino it's obviously The Godfather and Dog Day Afternoon. For Robert De Niro there's Raging Bull and Taxi Driver. And for Diane Keaton, a no-brainer: Annie Hall.
The one actor who truly stumped us, however, was me. Now, I know I'm a good actress. I'm Meryl Streep. I've won two Academy Awards, and I have been nominated for 15. That's a record. But what my friends and I figured out is that the name Meryl Streep isn't really synonymous with one truly unforgettable film. It's weird to think about, but it's undeniably true.
Go ahead, try and name a classic movie I've starred in. Not a classic character I've portrayed, mind you, but an overall amazing piece of cinema. You can't. You just can't.
Right off the bat, you're probably thinking Kramer Vs. Kramer. That's what my friends and I immediately jumped to also! But let's be honest, Kramer Vs. Kramer isn't really a masterpiece in the same way that, say, The French Connection or On The Waterfront is a masterpiece. It's not a bad movie by any stretch of the imagination; it's actually pretty good. I'd watch it if it were on. But if anything, it's more Dustin Hoffman's movie than Meryl Streep's movie. And when you think Dustin Hoffman, Kramer Vs. Kramer is a distant fourth behind The Graduate, Tootsie, and Midnight Cowboy.
Look, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here. I'm just calling it like it is.
Of course, next Sophie's Choice comes up. Sure. Absolutely. That makes complete sense. But have you actually watched Sophie's Choice lately? Boy, talk about a movie that has not aged well. My performance is very good. No question. Oscar-worthy even. But if it weren't me delivering those long monologues, people would see Sophie's Choice for what it really is: a fairly routine melodrama, with a Holocaust backstory thrown in to make the love triangle seem less banal.
I looked at AFI's top 100 movies list and Sophie's Choice was No. 91, behind Forrest Gump and The Sixth Sense. And truthfully, all I could say was, "That's about right."
So now is when you have to start really digging into my filmography because you're starting to think, "Can it be true that one of this generation's greatest actresses, maybe even the greatest—a national treasure, you might say—has never been in a film as good as Network, which isn't even Faye Dunaway's best movie?"
The Deer Hunter. Yes! Actually, no. A couple things bother me about The Deer Hunter. One, it's overrated. Yes, I said it. And two, how long was I in the The Deer Hunter? Three, maybe four minutes? Truthfully, I don't really remember being in the The Deer Hunter at all. (Same goes for Manhattan.) Then there's Out Of Africa, which, come on. We all know that movie was kind of the worst. That and The Bridges Of Madison County...don't even get me started on The Bridges Of Madison County.
Marvin's Room? We're scraping now, aren't we? Doubt. Yeah, 20 years from now people are definitely going to be talking about the film adaptation of Doubt. The River Wild. Look, I like The River Wild. Solid thriller. Good cast. Not a classic.
Oh, and for those of you who want to say The Devil Wears Prada? Please. I don't need your charity.
The annoying thing about all of this is that I've worked with directors who have produced some of the finest films in American cinema. I'm just not in any of them. I do a movie with Robert Altman, but it's A Prairie Home Companion. Mike Nichols calls me up, not for Carnal Knowledge, but Heartburn. Does anyone in the world other than Mike Nichols own the DVD of Heartburn?
So here we are. I'm 60 years old without a One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest or Bonnie And Clyde to my name. Meryl Streep: "Great actress, okay movies."
And by the way, The Manchurian Candidate is not a classic. Well, at least not the one I was in.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/name-one-masterpiece-of-cinema-that-ive-starred-in,11490/
- You know nothing [R66].
Your ridiculous devotion to Streep makes your attempts to be intellectual all the more one dimensional and elementary.
Her Julia Child and Thatcher were basic. How amusing that you think it was great acting. Many could have done those roles the same or better. Even by her standards, Child and Thatcher were nowhere near the heights of her best work. It's laughable to keep touting the two as any sort of real achievements.
As for Karen Duffy, it's obvious you haven't watched any of her movies. MCBAIN, REALITY BITES, LAST ACTION HERO, DUMB & DUMBER, MALCOLM X, WHO'S THE MAN? Duffy can dive into a role and fully inhabit a character.
No "click-click" and wheels turning with her.
- Hogwash!
Glenn
- Someone else said it best:
Streep is intellectual.
Lange is feral.
Streep is calculated.
Lange is visceral.
Streep is well-crafted.
Lange is realistic.
'nuff said
- Before she hit her stride with THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA and IT'S COMPLICATED, Meryl's ventures into comedy were quite unfortunate. I thought she mugged terribly in SHE-DEVIL and DEATH BECOMES HER; she pretty much had the same mannerisms and facial tics in both films...
- That Onion piece shuts up the Streep Troll each and every time LOVE IT!
The greatest actress who ever lived without a single classic movie in her filmography where she's the main star. Pretty sad when you think about it.
- Agree with R8
- M's list could go on a post-it - a SMALL post-it.
B. Midler
- Enough!
R7
- I'm not R7, don't even know how that happened.
Again, though -- Enough!!
R62
- Then again, is the fact that Kim Novak’s is a perfectly integral component of the newly crowned greatest film ever made makes her a better actress than Streep? In a way, a grand performance, by claiming the viewer attention, may be seen, by definition, as a hindering, offsetting element for a film. I guess this is why Kubrick casted Keir Dellua, Ryan O’Neal and Tom Cruise.
- [quote]Then again, is the fact that Kim Novak’s is a perfectly integral component of the newly crowned greatest film ever made makes her a better actress than Streep?
No, it doesn't. However, you can't deny that without Vertigo Novak's presence in film history would be greatly diminished. For as long as Vertigo remains one of the seminal film works, Novak will be part of the conversation.
So far, none of Streep's films guarantee her that same legacy.
- "Meryl lost the part of Patsy Cline in Sweet Dreams Jessica Lange"
That's sounds like utter horseshit.
"Meryl lost the part because Patsy was conventionally pretty; Meryl is NOT"
Neither was Patsy Cline! She was chubby, round-faced and plain.
It may be that Streep turned down the role but I doubt that she "lost" it. She probably didn't think it the best choice for her, and she had a LOT of choices.
As for who's the best...well, of course it's Streep. She has more talent by far and she can play a variety of characters that Jessica Lange would be pitiful as. By the way, it seems fitting that Lange is in a horror-oriented series because she does indeed look very, very horrible.
- R66 READ R31
Those are her own words.
- [quote]By the way, it seems fitting that Lange is in a horror-oriented series because she does indeed look very, very horrible.
R66, Stop. Jessica Lange is 63 and beautiful.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbva91BFH81r5t6uoo1_1280.jpg
- Streep Lunatic, I am not the Kate Nelligan troll. I doubt there is one, unless you mean the person who started a thread about her months ago, and that wasn't me.
But I did see Nelligan, and I saw the movie, and Nelligan was better IN THAT ROLE. That's not saying she's a better actress, it's saying she was better in that part. You didn't see Nelligan, did you? You couldn't have, because you claimed to be born in the mid 70s. So you literally don't know what you're talking about there, do you?
Why do you claim anyone who likes someone else better than Streep is a troll? I like a lot of actresses. I'm not a "troll" for any of them.
And you just made yourself look stupid with your comment about Judi Dench - as the critical reaction to that performance bears out.
Do you know what the term "knee-jerk" means? Because that's you regarding Streep, and its not something to admire. You have no objectivity at all, and without objectivity, you undercut everything you say by your fanaticism.
- "Those are her own words."
The question was "was there ever a film you TURNED DOWN", yadda yadda. And then she talks as though she were asked "was there ever a film you LOST." I think she just wanted to be nice and not say she turned down the role; that's how she comes across. "I have really, really, really, really, really wanted to do but they didn't want me..." that's laying it on pretty thick. I think she's was just trying to be diplomatic and not say "yeah, I was offered the role but turned it down and Jessica Lange ended up doing it."
- "Jessica Lange is 63 and beautiful."
Oh, please. She's mutilated her face with plastic surgery. She looks like the Joker.
- [quote] I think she's was just trying to be diplomatic and not say "yeah, I was offered the role but turned it down and Jessica Lange ended up doing it."
If Street was indeed offered and declined the role, which I doubt very highly, then her bringing it up in several interviews makes her a supreme cunt.
- It's typical of Streep lunatics to go for the jugular and start criticizing other actresses that are on the same level as Streep (they nearly massacred Glenn Close last year with nearly the same trash talk, calling her a man, etc.).
I think it's very telling that people have to attack Lange's - or any other actress' looks (the actors don't get trashed like this, mind you) - instead of just relying on the each woman's strengths (and weaknesses); they both have them.
It's so much easier to so say something stupid like, "Well, Meryl Streep sort of looks like a pelican."
Sad shit.
- It's CAST, not CASTED.
- [quote] Yes, yes, that happened...there have been movies that I have really, really, really, really, really wanted to do but they didn't want me and I went to see the movie and I thought, "They were right." [...] I think of Sweet Dreams that Jessica Lange did with Karel Reisz - and he was a friend of mine [long funny pause] and he was the director and, yeah, he cast Jessica and I went to see that movie and I thought, "NOBODY can do that better." I mean, it was DIVINE.
I lie. This is all part of my "I'm so modest" schtick, that I do, sort of like when I said Viola deserved the Golden Globe for her part in that maid movie. If I'd wanted Sweet Dreams I'd have done it....I was busy that year with Plenty and Out of Africa then I got knocked up with Grace. (bless her heart, is she still with Crudup BTW? that won't end well but at least she didn't marry a homo like Mamie...but I digress)
M
- I love how r53 is accusing others of avoiding HIS issues, while refusing to address the themes brought to his attention.
So very clam like.
It is YOU who keeps avoiding Karen Black's dirty and pathetic support of Scientology. It's a good thing that woman has no career to speak of. Serves her right.
And regarding the parameters of the discussion at hand: you don't get to decide them, sweetheart.
Charlize Theron gave a great performance in a film that was ripped apart for being weak. So did Marion Cotillard.
The idea that a film has to be great before you can call an actor great is ludicrous.
Meryl goes where the good roles are - that has always been her priority. And, you know, it has served her well so far.
Needless to say, she has starred in Manhattan, Kramer vs. Kramer, Out of Africa, Silkwood, Adaptation, The Hours, Angels in America, French Lieutenant's Woman, Deer Hunter - all of which are still regarded as good films.
Let's see what films Karen Black has elevated with her talent in the last 30 years:
Savage Dawn, It's Alive III: Island of the Alive, Hostage, Overexposed, Night Angel, Children of the Night, Jailforce, Dead Girls Don't Tango, Charades, Soulkeeper, Some Guy Who Kills People, and Oliver Twisted.
Oh.. dear.
Suffice it to say, you arguments falls flat on its face, clammy.
How predictable.
The%20Steep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- r59 is the reason why I will always be around here on DL.
No, fuckface, that article hasn't shut me up.
It's a weak article, written by people who can't stand Streep's success, and faux-profess to love her. They don't.
Streep may not have a Godfather to her name, but who says that is required for being called the greatest actor of all time?
She is synonymous with the name Sophie - which now stands for perfect screen acting. No other actor but Brando can claim that status with just one name, one role.
Not surprisigly, the article fails to mention that little fact.
The masses have already forgotten who Al Pacino is, and Streep will always be "most nominated actress in Oscar history".
And DeNiro has shat on his legacy with shitty performance after shitty performance. He deserves all the bile that article is dumping on Streep. Needless to say, a man will never be ripped apart like that.
That article is one thing only: sexist.
Streep keeps delivering great work, keeps challenging herself with disparate roles, while Pacino/DeNiro/Nicholson/Hoffman have given up years and years ago, even though there was no need for that. Instead, they are just collecting paychecks.
They should be ridiculed at every opportunity for their laziness. Instead, a successful woman is attacked with spurious arguments.
Kramer vs. Kramer is Hoffman's movie? No, it's not! It would be half the movie without Streep's committed and very nuanced performance. Hoffman even said so recently.
If an article is that dismissive of the truth,
it can't be taken seriously.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29%2C%20owning%20the%20detractors.
- r65, the word Sophie guarantees her that legacy.
And the numbers "17" and "3" (and counting) guarantee her that legacy.
Stop being willfully obtuse.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- I'm not the (or even "a") Streep Troll, but those of you disregarding Meryl because she hasn't starred in any "classic" or so-called "great" films sound like trolls of a different sort.
And how exactly do we decide what's great or classic? By awards? By overly-subjective lists? It's all so random and arbitrary (and, probably worst of all, so couched in the worst kind of myopic racial fantasy*)
* I'm white, by the way, and not playing any race card here, but it sorta needs to be said: if any of you think it's cool to have long debates about "great" American actresses and a) only mention Alfre Woodard once, b) hardly mention Viola Davis and c) never mention Rosalind Cash or Cicely Tyson or Regina Taylor or L Scott Caldwell or Ruby Dee, I subjectively suggest that you need to find something else to talk about...or just get off your rickety soapboxes and STFU.
Just saying.
Anonymous
- r69 obviously hasn't read the book "Notes on a Scandal".
Why are people always this predictable?
Judi Dench destroyed that character, and it's easily the worst performance of her career, regardless of the reception.
I've yet to see Streep destroy a character like that.
Next!
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- [quote] I've yet to see Streep destroy a character like that.
What about She-Devil?
Even she admits that didn't work out.
- Not comparable, r81.
Dench utterly betrays the character from the book. Really, read the novel and then see the film.
It's not about "will this work?", about a failed interpretation, but about willfully cheapening a character for maximum effect.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- Dear Streep Troll [R82], "betrays" is a heavy word!
I'm guessing you haven't seen some great film performances of literary characters that differentiate (often necessarily?) from the original. Like, perhaps, your own goddess's Miranda Priestly? Have you read The Devil Wears Prada?
Everyone doesn't always read the book first, or even afterward, and the screen performance does them just fine.
I wanna support you, but dissing Dench to make La Streep look better does you absolutely no good.
(And yes, before you or anyone else asks: I am new here lol)
Anonymous
- And deifying Dench does YOU absolutely no good, r83.
Dench and her director turned the character into an icky old lesbian with a hard-on for Blanchett. That is not the case in the book.
It was unnecessary, it was cliched, and they did it for cheap thrills. All this is NOT comparable to your garden variety deviation from a literary original source.
And in no way comparable to the Priestley thing.
Thanks for playing, though.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29
- [R84]
"The Priestley thing..." lol...okay.
Anyway, you're welcome...too bad you take all the fun out of playing. (And God forbid cheap thrills should appear in a movie of an already overrated book!)
That said, I think Meryl's best film portrayal of a book character was her work in Bridges of Madison County. She made the woman more interesting, and I think that film gets so little attention because of its wretched source material.
Anonymous
- Idiot at r85:
a negative and cliched portayal of an old lesbian for cheap thrills is indeed loathsome, because we don't need to reinforce the idea that lesbians are weird.
You defending Dench's decision to play her as that speaks volumes about you.
And you accuse me of deifying Streep! LOL.
At least Streep, when she went lesbian in The Hours, gave us a positive and fresh idea of a gay woman.
Judi Dench sucks for having gone along with it, and Streep deserves praise for advancing the cause.
Streep has also spoken out in favor of gay marriage. I haven't heard Judi Dench making similar statements about the sorry state of gay marriage in the UK.
She's no holy cow, that one.
Case closed.
The%20Streep%20troll%20%28tm%29%2C%20always%20better%20informed.
- I saw "Sweet Dreams." I found Jessica Lange very unconvincing as Patsy Cline. Patsy Cline was REALLY country and Jessica Lange had no idea how to convey that. And that whispery voice of hers! Patsy Cline had a rather gruff, good ol' girl speaking voice. Beverly D'Angelo was much better as Patsy Cline in "Coal Miner's Daughter." SHE should have played Cline in a movie, not necessarily "Sweet Dreams", which was quite mediocre.
- The Streep troll why don't you ever answer the question
Why does Streep refuse to read for parts?
Does she think she is too good to read for casting people?
- [quote][R65], the word Sophie guarantees her that legacy.
We're not talking roles, we're talking films. Don't pretend you don't know that.
- I think Meryl movies become classics simply by virtue of her performances. And if Forrest Gump is considered a great film, maybe the term has lost value.
And ps, Lange's only "classic" move is Tootsie, and, well, talk about dated.
I do think Jessica still looks great, though...
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/173/b/9/bad_ass_joker___old_school___by_terrorfakt99-d54eaf6.jpg
- Live from New York, it's Saturday Night!
http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.hitfix.com/assets/746/MerylStreepMargaretThatcherPT.jpg
- Lange has never been a good actress.
- Streep has never been a good actress.
