Frances with Jessica Lange

How much is true? Anyone read the book?

• Jessica is brilliant in this role. I thought she should have won the Oscar for this, and not that fluff "Tootsie". She was nominated the same year. Also has one of my other favorite actresses, Kim Stanley, playing her evil mother. sad film , but Jessica nailed it .

• The idea that she was lobotomized is questioned. I guess no one knows for sure, but there's a lot of doubt cast on it. The tv movie version of her story "Will There Ever Be A Morning" didn't include anything about her being lobotomized. Frances did make tv appearances, and hosted her own afternoon movie show, after she had allegedly been lobotomized.

• It is a sad movie but I like it. I agree Lange was brilliant, too bad she had the bad luck of going up against Streep in "Sophie's Choice", which is also an amazing performance. I think a lot of it is true. Farmer was a beautiful and talented actress that the studio had no idea of what to do with. She had a horrible, adversarial relationship with her dominating, screwed up mother (and a ineffective father). The abominable conditions of the mental institutions she was committed to (heinously being controlled by her mother's whims) where also a reality. The main point of contention is that there does not seem to be evidence that Farmer was lobotomized. Lobotomies were being performed abundantly during that time period but research has shown Farmer wasn't given one.

• Its been proven to be bullshit. Do a google of Shadowland, on which Frances is based, and you might get mad about the lies told in the film. One of the most gripping moments is when Frances is gang raped by soldiers. It never happened.

• It's so brown. The whole movie is brown and fuzzy.

• Mostly true. Certainly more so than "Will There Really Be a Morning?," Frances' "autobiography" which was actually written by the woman who had control of her life in the last few years (and most likely was her lesbian lover, too), and was "discovered" by her and published two years after Frances died.

• This looks like a pretty accurate account of her life.

  http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm%3FDisplayPage%3Doutput.cfm%26file_id%3D5058

• Watching "Frances" is when Jessica Lange became and remains my favorite actress. She was robbed of the Oscar that year. And even though she won for "Tootsie," it was very disappointing that she lost for "Frances."

• My link at r7 backs up most of what the movie showed, just the lobotomy claim is seriously questioned. And there was no mention of her being raped by soldiers, but there is also no doubt that the mental hospital where she was committed was an unimaginable hellhole where she was subjected insulin-shock and shock treatments. They used many of her actual quotes too. The Sam Shepherd reporter love-interest character was fictional, but that was considered dramatic license and never denied.

• The film on Frances Framer's life staring Jessica Lange doesn't really go in depth of her life and I was disappointed.However, Lange looked strikingly similar to Frances both beautiful. Susan Blakely and Lee Grant in the TV movie version, "Will There Really Be a Morning?" is much, much better. This film they go into more depth how the mother exploited her daughter. Frances Farmer going to Hollywood was a big mistake because she was very, very intellectual and extremely intelligent. she thought out of the box. She couldn't tolerate the corruption in Hollywood and how artificial that life was. Aside from that,I have heard she was bipolar way before anyone knew what it was and how to treat it. I once watched an old episode of Frances Farmer in the 50s on This Is Your Life. She seem very quiet and she does seem like she had a lobotomy.Her face seems like very force when she smiles She said at that point in her life that she believed in God. I think before she was a Communist and an atheist.Towards the end of her life she remind very reclusive living a tranquil life by the sea. Here is the link from You Tube, This Is Your Life part 1 Frances Farmer.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dde00c3ggHLw

• Here is Part 2 This Is Your Life Frances Farmer.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DOqhLOhLruQI

• I also want to add that Frances in, This Is Your Life, seems like she as paralyzed on here face because she speaks in a stiff manor. Most likely all of the crappy treatments they used to give in the mental asylum back then may have damaged some facial nerves, so sad.

• I never watched Frances with Jessica Lange because it seemed to be full of screaming. Is it just screaming? Is there a good book on her?

• [quote]Susan Blakely and Lee Grant in the TV movie version, "Will There Really Be a Morning?" is much, much better. This film they go into more depth how the mother exploited her daughter. Are you kidding me? Susan over acted and looked nothing like Farmer. The film was better and more accurate to her story.

• "Frances" was to Frances Farmer what "Lady Sings the Blues" was to Billie Holliday. This very in-depth article challenges almost every urban legend about Farmer that people now take to be true because of that lousy movie.

  http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfarmer/sheddinglight.html

• Of particular interest to DL readers is that the Kauffman article suggests that the reason "Shadowland" author William Arnold propelled the lobotomy claim is because he is a Scientologist and we all know of their fight against psychiatry.

• Quite a bit of "Frances" was fiction. I think it was the director of the film who said he didn't want to "nickel and dime the audience with facts." The character of "Harry", played by Sam Shepard, was pure fiction. It was said he was a "composite" of several characters, but that's just bullshit. Frances Farmer never had anyone like him in her life, somebody who was always there for her, someone who always helped her get out of the mental institutions, someone who had undying love for her. If only she had her life would have been much different. I didn't really like Lange's performance although she did look a lot like Frances. I especially hated her strange, whispery voice. The real Frances Farmer had a deep, faintly masculine voice. Lange sounds like a retarded little girl.

• My favorite part of "Frances" is the very beginning where Jessica Lange recites the beautiful essay "God Dies" that a teenage Frances Farmer wrote and for which she won a national prize. Lange recites it in such a beautiful expressive voice.

• I hate the addition of the Sam Shepard character. Was he even real, or was the character a composite of several? He seems to arrive on the screen like comic relief, a sort of jokey Will Rogers-type arriving at the most tense moments.

• If you concede the lobotomy never happened, even though her doctor was known for performing lobotomies, and lobotomies were done on many of her fellow patients. But it does look like the lobotomy is contested enough it never happened, so we'll concede that. And it was never denied that Sam Shepard character was fictional. The love interest was added for entertainment and narrative value. Whether or not it was a good choice, I don't think it ruins the movie. And the two actors fell in love, had children, and were together for decades, which gives at least some legitimacy to that aspect of the movie. So once the lobotomy and Sam Shepard character are conceded, then what? r15 nitpicks the book, a lot of those complaints don't apply to the movie and *are* nickle and dime. She was in Alien Corn in '34 instead of '35? She was in 15 movies, not 18? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Most of r15's link was too boring to bother with. There is no denying she went through hell in that mental hospital, everything else is nitpicking.

• Lobotomy gets 'em home

  icepick%20weilding%20neurosurgeon

• Given the extensiveness of the isulin and shock treatments, and the fact that Farmer was indeed repeatedly raped, I agree the fact that whether or not she was actually lobotomized seems pretty much incidental--her appearance on "This is Your Life" shows that she was absolutely cowed and changed utterly from how she had been since her movie star days, and not in a good way. She had become pretty much zombiefied.

• [quote]Watching "Frances" is when Jessica Lange became and remains my favorite actress. She was robbed of the Oscar that year. I agree! I became a fan after watching Frances. That's when I realized how talented and brilliant Jessica Lange was.

• [quote]I didn't really like Lange's performance although she did look a lot like Frances. I especially hated her strange, whispery voice. The real Frances Farmer had a deep, faintly masculine voice. Lange sounds like a retarded little girl. Funny, that's something Steep would have done, as she is prone to mimicry. And she would have done a good job. But that's not always essential in portraying a person.

• Kim Stanley is what makes the film compelling. So glad they hired an ACTRESS, and not some ex-TV star or something. Her grasping, controlling, desperately unhappy mother character makes me wince. I still mimic to my movie pal: "DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE NOBODY!!".

• Jeffrey Kaufman is a lunatic/conspiracy theorist, NOTHING he says can be taken as the truth.

• Streep would have been a TERRIBLE Frances. She has never been as dangerous an actress as Lange is. And the disconnect between Streep's looks and the truly beautiful Farmer would have been very disconcerting.

• "Lunatic/conspiracy theorist" Jeffrey Kauffman here LOL (two "f"'s, BTW). :) I saw a lot of people accessing my article from this site and thought I would drop by. How wonderful to see my secret identity as a lunatic has already been mentioned. :) My article was not meant to really deal with the film other than insofar as the film was based on the book. Therefore the supposed "nitpicks", because I sought to uncover the many, many fabrications and distortions of the book, and I clearly state up front that some of them are small. Many of them are not. Those who question the veracity of what I've written may want to look again at the sources contained in the article, which include court records and medical records (I was in fact the first person to gain access to many of these records). The most salient piece of information in all of this isn't just the Scientology connection IMHO, but Arnold's own admission that he made stuff up (see the section on the Brooksfilms lawsuit). If I am indeed a conspiracy theorist, why would Arnold have lost the lawsuit and been so taken to task by the judge who lambasted him for marketing his book as nonfiction when it was clearly a work of fiction? If I'm a "lunatic", that means sources going back to the original court cases, institutionalization and beyond share my lunacy. Off to put on my tin foil hat and keep those commies from infiltrating my brain. :)

• The actress who is Frances' old friend from her NY days on the "This is Your Life" segment is Jane Rose, who played Henry Jones' wife (Mother Dexter's daughter in law) on PHYLLIS (she's also notable in SUMMERTIME with Hepburn). I had a friend who knew Jane well and said Jane had a lot of interesting stories about Frances -this was about four years after the movie came out -and told her (my friend) that the autobiography "Will There Be a Morning?" was pretty much a sham. Jane died before Shadowland and Frances came out, so don't know what she would have said about them.

• One of the most beautiful books I've read; not necessarily a literary masterpiece but so haunting and hopeful - a strange mixture. The movie didn't capture that. I cannot imagine she was not lobotomies. At that time, I think it would have been impossible for her release, and doubt remains whether or not she even knew.

• r30 do you mean the book she wrote?

• Overpraised TV movie that DLers worship because its about a crazed, bitchy diva.

• I'm afraid to watch it for the reasons R32 states. Still furious over the atrocity that is "The Eyes of Laura Mars".

• I love to imitate the confrontation between Lange and Stanley, too. "You had it all!!! You are a movie star!!!" "My god, Mama - you'd send me back wouldn't you? You'd send me back.... I'm going." "Where do you think you're gooooing?!" "You get out of my way old woman! Get out of my waaaaaaaaaay!!! I swear to god, you follow me this time Mama... I will fucking KIIIIILL YOOOOU!" "Now you have really DONE IT little sister...."

• "Streep has never been as dangerous an actress as Lange." So fucking true!

• I don't know about her in real life but the movie Frances is a shit stirrer. Always making a fuss over nothing. The mother was a monster so we can see where she gets her attitude. Just like Dina and Lindsay.

  But who will play Lindsay?

• No one has mentioned those great scenes between Lange, and actor Lane Smith, playing the creepy shrink, at the sanitarium. She goads him, and he smiles weirdly, taking notes on all her actions. Then she calls him out by telling him he has "tiny beads of sweat above his upper lip" that give his nervousness away. And he touches that area. You then see he will use his position to keep her in line. It's all so strange, but wonderfully done , by both actors.

  Kim%20Stanley%2C%20worlds%20best%20actress

• Love the film - love Jessica, in it. She should of won the Oscar for this - not "Tootsie".

  Dr.%20Simon

• Jessica Lange deserved the Oscar for 'Frances." She was outstanding. Simply the best.

• Loved the post at R28. It was great for someone to show up from another website to give his POV. Fortunately, he didn't run into Prime Time.

• [quote]Jessica Lange deserved the Oscar for 'Frances And she has it. Though it's engraved with a different movie. For all intent and purposes everyone knows she won that award for "Frances"