- I still have it on as background noise.
- Yep, I'm out. If the first episode is like this, where will it be by the fourth, given Ryan M's track record?
- I like Nene in this, I hope she's a regular
- Every time I came to the conclusion that what I had just watched made this show about the biggest waste ever, it would prove me wrong. That happened at least a dozen times.
Having the show run two days in a row seems to be the one way of making sure this isn't the modern-day "Tammy Grimes Show."
- [quote]That is some godawful cutesy writing.
What else did you expect?
- The first few episodes of any new series are often abysmal because they have to explain the plot and characters as quickly as possible. These episodes are often not even released into syndication. I will give them 6 episodes to get up to speed, but if they don't ....
- What are you talking about r6?? I know of no show ever whose first episodes aren't released in to syndication. I've seen many shows in syndication from episode 1.
That being said, I had a few laughs with Nene and Ellen Barkin but Andrew Rannells character is offensive and the rest of the writing is abysmal.
I actually liked the Matthew Perry show better.
- But why do they "have to explain the plot and characters as quickly as possible?"
That's one of the reasons it's so poorly written.
Obviously. they think audiences will become bored but what bores audiences is lame, offensive and unfunny storytelling which this show has in spades.
- I heard Andrew Reynold's "Fresh Air" interview today. Terry Gross asked him how the writers avoided making is character a typical gay stereotype. He honestly thought they accomplished that goal. They didn't.
That's not to say that the show can't be good, and the premise is sort of bold. But, Reynold's character is pretty much what you'd expect.
- "Go On" was actually marginally better, but I kept thinking the grief group was an AA meeting because Matthew Perry now looks and moves like a boozebag. After a certain point you can't get it back.
It reminded me of a little-remembered comedy from the 1980s, "Dear John," with Judd Hirsch as a sad sack who went to a coping group after his wife left him.
- Would the show have benefited from a laugh track to let us know what was funny?
- Six episodes?! Good god, I'm not a fucking charity.
- Just curious: What happened after the gay platinum-level embryo gay salesman came over to the gay house and the one gay guy said something super gay and the "normal" gay guy rolled his eyes?
That's when gay me turned it off.
- I'm not sure R11 but I am glad they clearly delineated which one "was the man" and which one "was the lady."
Watching sports - big ol' dog - Man.
Shopping - referencing himself to MTM - Lady.
Middle America thanks you!
- Oh yes, I meant to watch this thing, too late now.
I like Ellen Barkin, I hope they can fix it.
- [quote]Six episodes?! Good god, I'm not a fucking charity.
I'm not defending The New Normal (haven't watched it yet), but it's not like this is uncommon.
The Office, 30 Rock and Parks & Rec all started getting good after the first six episodes.
- It wasn't that bad. It's a pilot. They had to cram the entire plot in 20 mins--racist homophobe grandma who raised granddaughter when her mom dumped her, cheating boyfriend, dreams of being legally blonde lawyer, embryo shopping etc. To get the story they were selling they had to paint everyone in broad stereotypes.
I expect everyone will be toned down as the episodes go on. I give comedies more than one episode before deciding if it works.
- This show is hilarious. Love it. Who wouldn't be madly in love with sweet Andrew Rannells and Justin Bartha, and sassy Nene Leakes? It's like written by DLers. The designer "wanted to make sure his egg donor was not a fatty," and Ellen Barkin talks like everyone does when they're offline.
- I'll be interested to see the very special cross-over episode where the cast of New Normal (better include Nene) get slaughtered on American Horror Story.
- I thought it was okay. R6 is right though. The first few episodes of a series are often awful compared to what comes later. I'll DVR it, right now it conflicts with White Collar.
- True, R16. But The Office, 30 Rock and Parks & Rec didn't have nearly as far to go to get to good.
'The New Normal' will need to improve exponentially just to get to "It sucks."
- Again, I haven't seen The New Normal yet, so I'm not defending it. It's on the DVR, although everything I've heard about it makes me think I won't like it.
- I disagree with R21. And The Office sucks now and is still on the air.
As for the show, I only found the Barkin character too strident & already they tried to give her a reason for her homophobia, that she found her husband with another man with their pants down.
The writing for the Ranell's character is over the top but Ranell really sells him as kind of sweet so I didn't hate him. I think the show has potential.
- It's barkin' up the wrong treeQ
- I totally agree with R6. The rule of thumb is that half hour comedies need at least four episodes to get the sea legs afoot. They usually don't have the timing and tone down just right. Watch the first few episodes of Fraser, Will and Grace, Friends, (in addition to the ones already mentioned). They seem strange. Characters say and do things that don't fit. Even what they wear is different. Not saying The New Normal will be any good at all, however...
Dramas are the exact opposite. If you don't have it in the pilot, you rarely ever find it.
- Call me crazy, I actually liked the show. I thought it was cute and funny, although it wouldn't hurt with some improvements here and there. It can get better imo.
- R20- but it's often only in retrospect that we see how weak the initial episodes were. Not a good sign when it can be seen right off the bat. "The Office" pilot (essentially just the first episode of the British version) was criticized and the critics were all amazed at how improved the second episode was.
- Exactly R17 and others who have said the same thing. You can't really expect sitcom pilots to be perfect. I thought it showed enough promise and as a gay man I am certainly going to support it and give it another couple of episodes to catch my interest.
Also, apparently Andrew Rannels characters is a showrunner of a popular television musical program called "Sing". Really Ryan Murphy? I swear that man loves the meta.
- I heard Andrew Rannells on "Fresh Air" today. It was a great interview. I hope the show turns out to be a hit.
- Was it better or worse that Whitney? That shit was painful.
- Where are they going to go with this when the kid is born?
- It was worse than 9/11.
- [quote]Six episodes?! Good god, I'm not a fucking charity.
I want this as an official network policy -somewhere, anywhere.
- From the looks of the latest promo, they're going to ramp it up a bit.
- Is this the show where the man goes up into the man?
- I will watch it eventually but the show I am excited for is cbs partner's with Brand routh ? Has it started yet
- I enjoyed it, despite the fact that Ryan Murphy is so easy to loathe. I hate investing time in a show that will collapse in the middle of the second season.
If it lasts that long.
Onr more thing - the blonde playing the pregnant mother is lifeless. With those other scene-stealing co-stars, she needs to step it up ALOT.
- Rannells is said to be a self-absorbed ego monster.
- Well, I really liked it; think Andrew Rannells is adorable off-the-charts! Perhaps 'cause I'm a hag, hee-hee. I'm also exactly Ellen Barkin's age (yes, old) and I cringe 'cause she's playing - a great-grandmother, right? the adorable (but looks a trifle too much like Abigail Breslin, perhaps) 9-year old (or around that age) is the blond's daughter, correct? God, everyone must be popping out at age 18 or whatever.
I don't know what middle America will think of the show, but I hope it improves and does well.
- Bright spot for me: In her cameo, Gwenyth looked so fucking old!
- I find it hilarious Andrew Rannells felt the need to officially come out recently. Like there has ever been a doubt since he was two, approximately.
- He did say in the Fresh Air interview that his coming out after high school was a surprise to absolutely no family member or friend.
- I watched 6.5 minutes of this schlock and came to the conclusion that this "piece" does nothing to improve our communities relationship with the heteroworld. It will only reinforce any annimosity they have toward gays. Poorly written, poorly conceived and poorly acted. I do find Justin Bartha adorable though and wish he had better material to serve him.
- I liked the story but it wasn't funny at all until Nene and Ellen Barkin faced off at the end. I also like the little girl. Remains to be seen whether this will fly with the mainstream.
- The entire first season of Parks and Rec sucked and the show runners admit to that. Now it's great. Having said that this is a Ryan Murphy production so that usually means that his crank addled mind will move onto some other thing starting around the beginning of the second season. That is of course if NN has a second season.
- If they tone down Rannell's character with all his "wacky" gay antics I could see this getting better over time.
- On Fresh Air, he said he had his first crushes on various male celebs at age 4.
- NY Daily News gave it only 2 out of 5, said it needs to be funnier and more consistent in tone.
- [quote]The entire first season of Parks and Rec sucked
I agree. I wanted to like it and kept watching for a few minutes each week and would end up switching to something else.
- The problem with series like this is that they cram so much plot and conflict and extreme characters into the pilot that there is no where for the show to go.
Friends, Cheers, MTM, Frasier and so many other classic sitcoms didn't need to set up so much rigorous storytelling in the pilot. The first episodes were simply about gently introducing the characters and their environment. Even Modern Family did it better than The New Normal.
For example, Phyllis on MTM was a relatively outlandish character from her first appearance but she wasn't put into outrageous situations until the audiences grew to like her. Ellen Barkin's character, OTOH, was vile and off-putting from her first sentence.
In this day and age, audiences want it all spelled out for them in the first 1/2 hour so that when they get bored 5 weeks later they can just dispose of the show and move on to the next next sitcom. No wonder these shows don't last more than a few seasons.
Ryan Murphy is obviously perfect for this kind of bad writing and wretched producing.
- NY Daily News review by David Hinckley:
NBC’S “The New Normal” doesn’t need to be a better vessel for some mythic traditional American morality.
It needs to be a better sitcom.
The two central characters here, Bryan (Andrew Rannels) and David (Justin Bartha), are in a loving, committed, long-term relationship and have just decided they want to fuss and obsess over a baby instead of a dog.
Enter Goldie (Georgia King), a soon-to-be single woman from the Midwest who has fled to L.A. with her delightful 8-year-old daughter, Shania (Bebe Wood). They are soon joined by Nana (Ellen Barkin), who dislikes gay people and pretty much all other people.
For a $35,000 consideration, Goldie agrees to become David’s and Bryan’s surrogate, and by the end of the first episode, by golly, we got us a family.
Not an abnormal family. Just a family. “Abnormal is the new normal,” says Bryan, and by golly, we also got us a show title.
There are a lot of good things about “The New Normal,” which was created by Ryan Murphy (“Glee,” “American Horror Story”).
The performances are strong, particularly by King
as a woman trying to reclaim her dreams, and Wood as a child who sometimes puts the grownups back on the rails.
Bryan and David are defined more by what they do and want as a couple than the fact they’re gay. That’s progress.
But all this also has to fit together smoothly into a sitcom, and in the first episodes the ride feels bumpy.
Murphy tries to do here what he does in “Glee,” which is bounce between near-slapstick, sometimes silly humor and serious ruminations on life and love.
It works in “Glee” because there’s time for all those parts to get comfortable together.
A half-hour sitcom simply may not provide enough room.
One minute Bryan is deciding he wants a baby because someone else’s looks cute in a mall.
Moments later, David is telling Goldie, with tears in his eyes, “You gave me hope.”
“The New Normal” wants what “Modern Family” is having. But if we’re going to catapult from “South Park” to a Hallmark movie, we need a smoother ride.
- [quote]Bryan and David are defined more by what they do and want as a couple than the fact they’re gay. That’s progress.
Not in the 10 minutes I saw, which involved shopping, capris, and a queen who wanted a baby because he saw one in a store and wanted to have something to dress in baby clothes.
I guess the "progress" came from the other one, who watched football and had a large dog.
- I wanted to slap that little blond queen viciously. Men-adjacents like him don't get men like Bartha's character in real life. Ever. A masculine, hot doctor and a mincing fairy? Never happens.
- it was OK, but that's it.
I, too, didn't like the OH SO OBVIOUS hints at who was who. I'm with the bf and both of us are uber masculine and studly. SHOW THAT SIDE OF GAY LIFE!
And is it just me, or does Justin Bartha PING OFF THE CHARTS???
- You queens are pathetic. So afraid of offending and you're all so pathetic. It's called comedy and it DEALS in stereotypes. Get over it.
- The blond one is very, very queeny.
- I thought the first episode played like it was written by James Dobson.
- R55 Who here looks as if he is afraid of offending?
Now stop stamping your cheap shoes. You're giving us a headache.
- it was barf worthy awful
- [quote]I find it hilarious Andrew Rannells felt the need to officially come out recently. Like there has ever been a doubt since he was two, approximately.
It is funny, and yet had he not said anything officially, he would've been accused of trying to closet himself.
- I'm in! I'm desperate for entertainment on TV that is not "reality" so if this provides 2 laughs a week - that's good enough for me.
- [r55] It's not even good on that level. It's just not good.
- [quote}I'm with the bf and both of us are uber masculine and studly.
LOL!!!Whatever you say.
- Is Justin Bartha gay?
- Rannells says his character is based on Ryan Murphy so somewhat biographical.
I find it interesting how everyone on here is over praising the straight actor in the story line. Typical and explains why 'gay for pay' porn is so popular. If Bartha was a gay actor you wouldn't all be bending over backwards giving him praise for basically being the 'straight man' in this comedy.
You're just displaying some good old fashioned self hating gay bashing. There's not a gay, out celebrity that doesn't get severely bashed on this site. Rannells is getting overly criticized for being a gay actor and acting 'too gay' or you know, e f f e m i n a t e.
People just need to deal with the fact that some gay people do actually act like this. Is anyone out there crying that Nene is playing the stereotypical wise cracking black bitch character.
- Nene was great in this.
- [quote]explains why 'gay for pay' porn is so popular
I think there's a little bit of a difference in the response to porn and the response to a sitcom.
Apples N. Oranges
- All this bitching and complaining is just disappointing. I think a lot of it's is the herd mentality and right now, Ryan Murphy has a herd of groaners and moaners who are going to dislike anything he does. He's just in that zone.
I've heard this show is too gay, it's not realistic enough, the characters are too broad, characters aren't defined, they are too much of a stereotype. Honestly, if the Ryan took the advice that all of you seem to give out so freely, he would have a very boring, bland show.
And complaining because one of the characters is a stereotype? I've seen that guy, I've known that guy, I've seen those couples - they exist, they are out there. But I guess 'some' gays just aren't acceptable for tv anymore?
- I agree with r65. It's pretty clear that Rannells' character is supposed to be Murphy. The couple is even named Brian and David (isn't Murphy's partner named David?) so the main thing I took from the pilot is that Murphy is a giant queen and his partner isn't.
I didn't have a problem with the stereotypical characters, but I do hope that the pacing improves quickly.
- Just a reminder. This is (what amounts to) a :20 sitcom. It isn't a documentary. It isn't a novel where by the end, every situation and every character is fully realized. It isn't a public service announcement for gay couples having children. It isn't an educational video on how to act appropriately so you will accepted by the masses. It isn't an inspirational production meant to fulfill your every emotional need and be the end all, be all of television programming meeting the PC requirements of both straights and gays, and then the subsets of straight-acting gays and effeminate gays. It just isn't.
When I hear that the gay couple here is a horrible stereotype and they need to look at "Modern Family" to see how it's done - what? Isn't the funny overweight AND effeminate husband just as much a stereotype? And if so, who cares??? He's funny. And we've had three seasons to get to know him and find out different sides of him.
Yet, this show gets one episode from this crowd to be everything it needs to be.
- R67 in both the porn and the sitcom, as long as the gay viewer thinks the actor is really straight & just pretending to be gay they find them more attractive.That's why some of the porn stars are told to pretend that they're really straight even though they're gay. It sells better. The minute they find out that the actor is really gay, they lose attractiveness for them.
I don't see it as comparing apples to oranges. It's the same principle. Even the straight community overpraises the straight actor playing Gay. They're the ones who get nominated for the Oscars & Tonys for being 'so brave.' It's just sad when Gay people play along with this meme.
- [quote]in both the porn and the sitcom, as long as the gay viewer thinks the actor is really straight & just pretending to be gay they find them more attractive
No. American audiences think that gay playing gay requires less acting than straight playing gay. It does not make him more attractive in the way that a gay for pay pornstar does for some people; it makes them seem more talented or versatile. And I will go to my grave saying that the impulses behind sexuality are infinitely more mercurial than those that go into laughing or not laughing at a sitcom.
- I didn't mind the stereotypical characters (that IS the "normal" for TV shows) but was offended by the premise that this gay couple made the decision to have a baby so cavalierly.
- Whoever said they thought Bartha was the better actor? I think everyone just said he was cute.
- Wait...Bartha's NOT cute?
And Rannell's NOT cute-ish but a little odd and plastic looking?
Now there's nothing to discuss.
- Hey all - I noticed a post i made got edited and a word I used is apparently verboten. I certainly didn't mean to offend and was even using a word I see on this page (although cleverly spaced I notice now). Honestly, considering what we read on here, I didn't know this particular word has entered the realm of offensive, particularly in the overall context of what I was saying. Perhaps, 'less masculine' should have been the phrase I used in regards to the particular stereotype I was referring to. So - if in making my point, I offended, I apologize. I will reconsider the use of that word in the future.
- Even with all the stereotypes or real-lefe depictions, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE A BETTER SHOW.
See Daily News review above for some constructive critcism.
- I do not like e f f e m i n a t e men. I realize they exist and some gay men are walking stereotypes, but it seems almost every time I see a gay guy on tv he's a fucking flamer. It's annoying, like a black person watching a minstrel show.
- Does even Ryan Murphy dress like Rannells' character?
I doubt it.
- R66 of course gay men can, and often are, e ff eminate. It just gets old seeing that stereotype as the only one offered. I don't need some uber masculine slob, like the gay character on Happy Endings. I just need a man who doesn't want to look like Mary Tyler Moore. Or, if that is the direction the writers wanted to go, fine. But be realistic. Queens like that don't get hot doctors. At least Jack MacFarland was funny and hardly ever actually dated. Who would want him other than to fuck him quiet (and even then...)? No one.
- [quote]All this bitching and complaining is just disappointing. I think a lot of it's is the herd mentality and right now, Ryan Murphy has a herd of groaners and moaners who are going to dislike anything he does.
Perhaps. But I'm bitching and complaining because I thought the writing and situations were awful.
Ellen Barkin pointing a gun and threatening to shoot someone -- "The only thing stopping me is that I'd go to jail and I can't live without my Lean Cuisine."
- I thought the writing was very "aren't I being clever?" when it was being both shrill and predictable
- Andrew Reynolds will NEVER be a star!
- "Obviously. they think audiences will become bored but what bores audiences is lame, offensive and unfunny storytelling which this show has in spades."
Exactly. I didn't watch the NEW NORMAL opener, but judging from GLEE, Ryan Murphy writes ridiculous situations and characters doing outrageous things in order to keep the ADD audience interested, but all of that is a huge turnoff to anyone with even half a brain and a modicum of taste. A good writer can keep an audience interested without throwing a firecracker every six minutes.
- Dear R78
Fuck you, you goddam bigot.
- I think Murphy should stick to writing edgy dramas like Nip/Tuck and American Horror Story. He's doesn't know funny (Glee), so I am not surprised that The New Normal was a disaster.
- Popular was hilarious. Murphy can't do depth.
- People on here have more issues than Ryan Murphy can deal with in a half hour show. The show is not a disaster, just a new comedy that appeal to some people and not to others.
Some review quotes: "Watch or don’t watch, it’s your choice, but if you do opt out, you’ll be missing a fairly promising new show with a lot of humor, solid performances, a snappily written script and, yes, a lot to say about the evolving nature of families.” SF Chronicles
"Much about the pilot felt flat or programmatic to me, but much was likable as well, especially the nonchalant tenderness between the male leads. And the cast is good.” L.A. Times
[quote]But be realistic. Queens like that don't get hot doctors.
Really? Queeny men don't get laid now, don't date & can't get hot guys?
Secondly. Bartha is not any hotter than Andrew Rannell. But again, he's a straight actor so someone has gone overboard in evaluating the hotness level.
- why not depict a gay dude as being mainstream in every way, such a gay football player, a gay boxer, a gay Marine, or a gay construction worker. And don't make into another character who is into girly music, divas, and being a girl's best friend.
- Poor Quinto had to play swishy like that for Murphy - why he insists on this in his gay characters I have no idea.
- I guess I'm in the minority, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
both exist. and the latter is more common.
- because swishy is common among gay men. the boyfriend wasn't swishy.
- r89 - that's a different show. Not this one. Either like this show or not, but let's not make it a different show.
r90 - as far as I can tell, Murphy has his gay characters cross the spectrum in every show. Some people keep honing in on the "swishy" characters because some people have an aversion to them, and then that seems to dominate their mind, even when other types of characters are on screen.
- [quote] why not depict a gay dude as being mainstream in every way, such a gay football player, a gay boxer, a gay Marine, or a gay construction worker. And don't make into another character who is into girly music, divas, and being a girl's best friend.
Ooh, get her.
- Some gay men are e fem minate, this idea that they shouldn't be shown on TV/movies is absurd as hell.
There are more gay men like Rannells' character on the New Normal than there are like Max on Happy Endings.
And if you look at Glee we have Kurt who is feminine, Blaine who is pretty much a normal gay guy not overly masculine or feminine, and Karosfky and Sebastian who were both pretty masculine. It isn't like Ryan is only about one stereotype, it shows the variety of gay men that exist. Including the flamers which people shouldn't be ashamed.
- [quote]Poor Quinto had to play swishy like that for Murphy - why he insists on this in his gay characters I have no idea.
That's probably closer to how Zach is in real life. On the Star Trek gag reel, he goes from being stoic, unemotional Spock to having a purse falling from his mouth at about Warp 9.
Anyhoo, I thought the show was okay. As ashamed as I am to admit it, Nene made me laugh.
The Voice of the Night
- R88, most masculine gays couldn't handle that level of queeniness. I couldn't. As a friend? Sure. But as a partner? No way. I admit I might be bias based on my personal tastes, but I think most would agree with me.
Of course a queen who's cute (which he is) can and will get laid. But partnering up to the point of having a child together is a totally different endeavor.
And I don't care at all about who's straight or gay in real life. That doesn't alter my perception of what I like or don't like or what I think works as a TV character or doesn't work. I totally understand that the e ffeminate gay male exists in large quantities in the real world. I live in LA. But it's been done, over and over, and it doesn't contribute anything new anymore. At least to me.
But overall, I like the show and will continue to watch it.
- r89, that's not a different show. That's nearly NO shows. More often than not, we get a swishy guy. Sitcoms, reality shows, game shows. If the guy is gay, you can see him from space.
- "constructive critcism."
It will be oblvious to the herd here who feel cute gay white men can do no wrong.
Meanwhile, they couldn't have bothered to cast a black actress for Rocky? I rolled my eyes when I saw Nene Leakes doing her "black bitch" routine.
Do Cohen and him think all black women act like stereotypes? All angry and ebonics sounding?
- Then you're no better than a homophobe, r78. Effeminate gay men have always existed and always will exist. And I personally like them, it's always brave to go against societal conventions.
- Can anyone here honestly say they thought the idea of a swishy gay guy wanting to have a baby mainly so that he could buy it cute clothes and accessories ACCEPTABLE or FUNNY?
And then don't hire a talented black actress. Hire a reality star who the public is already grotesquely fascinated by so that you don't have to create a genuine and unique character.
And dress the little girl up so she loks like the familiar little girls from Little Miss Sunshine and Modern World. So much easier for audiences to get what she's all about.
And then name the ditzy young blond Goldie. That will save several episodes of developing who the character is. I won't even mention the Legally Blonde aspect.
Ellen Barkin cannot do comedy. A genuine fish out of water. Or maybe she just didn't believe in the awful material she was handed (probably each morning).
- Just watched it. Let me put it this way: I laughed more reading this thread (at how people are trying to spell that WORD) than I did at all at any point in the show.
And, henceforth, it shall be spelled, "E-Femmy Nut."
I have spoken.
- Well if it isn't funny enough it doesn't have anything to do with one of the characters being e-fem. All successful drag queens are expected to be funny bitches, Ru's Drag Race (and especially the companion show Untucked) is one of the funniest shows on.
- Ellen Barkin looks so dried out. Dry skin, dry hair, dry lips...etc.
- Ryan Murphy should consider doing a miniseries or telanovela. His show always jump the shark after a few episodes.
- I thought having a forthrightly butch-femme male couple was kind of daring. And hot.
- Just watched the second episode (or First after the pilot). I thought it was a lot funnier and better done than the first.
Too bad they put the Matthew Perry show on first. That one actually was a little worse than their first one.
- I watched some of this tonight and it wasn't bad. I don't think I'll watch it but whatever.
When it got pulled in Salt Lake a few conservatives were on blog comments like 'well, the show is bad'. A- no one had seen it yet. B- if that's how shit worked we'd have like nothing to watch. So yeah, didn't like the mimimizing.
The show's, of course, harmless fluff.
- The second ep was far better than the pilot. That little girl is very talented.
The Matthew Perry show suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
- r18=Publicist for The New Normal
- r80 nailed it!
- Multiple same sex kisses in prime time on a major network. Stop bitching. It was funny and I am the doctor. A gay guy who watches sports and has a husband who doesn't. Deal with it.
- [quote]Meanwhile, they couldn't have bothered to cast a black actress for Rocky? I rolled my eyes when I saw Nene Leakes doing her "black bitch" routine.
The irony is that, terrible actress though she is, NeNe is about the only thing that makes this otherwise dull show come to life. It's almost a shame she's not going to get more than a mere 15 seconds of screen time per episode.
- Is Nene also on Glee? I've never seen a housewife show so I'm not sure who she is.
- Ok, I liked the pilot, but tonight's episode was too much. When every joke is gay related the over saturation gets really old, really quick. No one talks that way. Why couldn't it just have been a realistic light sprinkling.
BTW, Colton Haynes' cousin is not attractive. Who did Colty blow to get unappealing cuz the cameo?
- The flashback part to when they first met was cute & funny too. Very Saved by the Bell.
- r25, but the seeds are there, no?
There's a difference between adjusting tone and beefing up characters and a lame-ass swath of stereotypes with cultural references that try too hard.
The whole idea strikes me as an offensive bandwagon jump to revive Murphy's dying star. Maybe that makes me biased.
- Just wondering how many of you Marys being so critical of the show have your own TV shows in production or on the air right now, let alone FOUR.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
- Baby adoption for gay couples who want to expand their clothes shopping and home design repertoire? A vapid pushover "butch" gay physician hitched to a plasticized girly queen fit only to apply pomades and creams and lotions? A sassy, foul-mouthed "Nana"? A sassy, foul-mouthed black girl assistant? And a heart-of-gold poor white blonde girl single mom who donates her eggs and makes some swell friends?
An embarrassing crock of shit.
- r119, stop with the populist bullshit.
Quantity does not equal quality.
- I thought the second episode was FAR better. And the little girl's Little Edie impression was flawless.
- Actually....I expected it to be absolutely terrible, but I really like this show. I honestly think it just might work out for NBC, but we shall see. Yes, it is "harmless" fluffy comedy, that is not that all too deep. I think by letting this show fail, we let the haters win. Yeah, that's an over-the-top statement, but I just wish we could get behind something (that's not a butt) and show haters that we can be as rabid about a "cause" as they can be about some nasty chicken.
- Grey Gardens from a ten year old. Sheer gay brilliance.
- [quote]Yes, it is "harmless" fluffy comedy, that is not that all too deep. I think by letting this show fail, we let the haters win. Yeah, that's an over-the-top statement, but I just wish we could get behind something (that's not a butt) and show haters that we can be as rabid about a "cause" as they can be about some nasty chicken.
I'd love to watch something fun and fluffy and WELL-WRITTEN about gays, but this is as painful as your average gay film festival entry.
When it comes to TV and movies, quality trumps sexual orientation; I'm not going to support something mediocre and unfunny just because it has gay characters. That makes about as much sense as saying black viewers should watch "Tyler Perry's House of Payne."
- "...Terry Gross asked him how the writers avoided making is character a typical gay stereotype. He honestly thought they accomplished that goal. They didn't."
It just shows how clueless (and tasteless) television writers are. I wouldn't watch a single episode of this junk (or any network programming, for that matter) if you paid me.
- Speaking of dried out. Matthew Perry looked far older than his years. He was also over acting. His show stinks!
- NBC has no idea how to do comedies anymore. The only good show they have is 30 Rock and that's 100% Tina Fey's doing.
- Now I'm really looking forward to Partners on CBS!
- R127 the over-tanning doesn't help Perry when compared to a prune.
And, yes, Perry overacts his ass off.
- R127 I saw a program reviewing the new season and the consensus was the Partners is the worst new show of the season.
- Wow, "Partners" must be pretty awful if it's considered to be inferior to "The New Normal". I really tried to stick with this show, and while the second episode seems to have dialed down the really prissy Rennells character ( not by much), it still lacks what any good sitcom needs: good jokes.
Dont get me started with NeNe either...
- Uh, a show where they sit having a heart to heart in bed and share as kiss before getting out of bed, or on the couch holding hands while they argue with baby-mom about sharing their home? Being physically affectionate? Where's that on Modern Family?
- Rannells & Bartha make a cute couple & are more affectionate than Modern Family so it's a plus in that dept.
Ratings are in for Tuesday. The New Normal had basically identical ratings as Monday, this time 2.5mil 18-49 & 7 mil total. Go On premier had 3.4mil 18-49 & 9 mil total.
- Loved the little girl doing EDIE BEALE. She was dead on.
- The sharing home thing was a bit strange. Rannells visiting her house and calling it "shabby chic" and being entirely condescending was insulting.
So many portrayals of gay couples having more money than sense.
The straight guy friends of Bartha's character need to go. Not because they're straight, but because they bring an Up All Night/What to Expect When You're Expecting vibe that has been done to death.
Loved the Grey Gardens references.
- It was their guest house, but yeah. Gay gynecologist is an interesting angle too.
That little girl had Little Edie AND Drew Barrymore's Little Edie spot on.
- What breed of dog do they have. The puppy is so cute.
- I hate the odd "confessionals" done by tertiary characters. It felt very dated. Didn't early episodes of Sex and the City do that? And I, too, hate the straight friends. They need to implore more things like Grey Gardens. It was gay, fresh, funny as hell, and heartwarming.
- If they can find something better, NBC will cancel it after this season.
- You all had me thinking I was being over generous with my opinion of the pilot, but the second ep was delightful. I loved everything from Nene on the crapper, to Little Edie, to the fiestaware. Rannells and Bartha made a cute couple and I loved the flashback to them meeting.
- I liked it. You queens complain that there's not enough gay tv out there and then you bash a new show that isn't perfect but is definitely a step in the right direction. People like you are why they hate us. So, yeah, hate it and don't watch and watch it get canceled but beware of what you'll get in its place.
- I enjoyed both episodes, particularly the second. And, IMO, Justin Bartha and Andrew Rannells have chemistry. I BELIEVE them as a couple, which is obviously an important facet in a show like this. I'll definitely tune in next week. Although I do agree that some of the periphery characters should be axed.
- "If they can find something better, NBC will cancel it after this season."
Like the declension of good, better, best
have anything to do with television programming.
- I tivoed both episodes and expected to go in hating it after reading the reviews here on DL. I was even bad mouthing it to co-workers, like an asshole, before seeing, saying that it didn't sound like it was any good.
Then I watched it and I enjoyed it. Yes, the pilot was a tad cloying but the second episode had some original ideas that I thought were funny. Each character is believable in their over the top manner. I do love how they get in little inside jokes about gays and their weight - When he held up the baby cardigan - "We need to talk about your dieting."
I applauded when they showed the couple getting into the same bed, that was expected. I was shocked and pleased when they showed them kissing. Bravo.
- "The New Normal" is unique in that there are no straight men in it, other than Goldie's dumb, soon-to-be-ex-husband.
- Every poster in this thread who likes the show is a frau, right?
- [quote]The whole idea strikes me as an offensive bandwagon jump to revive Murphy's dying star.
Oh PLEASE. Glee is obviously fading, but it made Fox a shitload of money and was, in many ways, a revoltionary move for network TV.
AHS got great ratings and tons of praise and awards.
I think Murphy comes off like kind of a dick, but his star is hardly dying.
- [quote]Rannells visiting her house and calling it "shabby chic" and being entirely condescending was insulting.
They wanted her to move into their guest house. I don't think praising her current place would have helped to achieve that.
Personally I am not really fond of comedy entertainment shows mixing in After School messages (like: Be who you are, don't be afraid of take action to better yourself, etc.) but somehow I like it in that show.
The scene of 'Goggles' talking to Rannells' character about the other kids not getting her reminded me of the scene in Ugly Betty with Justin (Mark Indelicato) and Marc (Michael Urie) where Justin says the same thing about the other kids not getting him and Marc giving the same 'be who you are' lecture but ending it with the run faster than them line.
- So far the writing is just not that funny, and they need some close caption shit when Nene talks. I am giving it a shot, hoping it gets better but something isn't really right about it. When you hinge a whole episode on the little girl's awesome Little Edie impression, something ain't right.
- I loved the show, especially the little girl imitating Little Edie Beale. I thought that was hilarious!!
But I wish Andrew Rannells' character was more like his character in "Book of Mormon" and less "Just Jack!" McFarland.
- "Let's go out and have some fun before we morph into an old lesbian couple, minus the frowns and the old Gingerbread man bodies."
Yeah, hilarious shit.
- Who is the hunky actor who plays Goldie's ex-husband?
I can't believe I'm the first poster to bring him up.
- r153, that's Jayson Blair.
- [Nene on the crapper]
It is now the Emmy worthy show of the year.
- The young lady who did the Little Edie impersonation is named Bebe Wood.
She's adorable! I've never seen such a wee little girl do such a unique impersonation before and her line delivery was really great.
- I'm loving it. I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a fan of good sitcoms and I think this show has the potential to be another Will and Grace or Modern Family. Andrew Rannells is my MVP so far but I don't see a weak link in the bunch. Little Edie was inspired.
- I watched it, completely expecting to hate it. I will tune in again if only to watch Wood play Little Edie every week. If the character drops the affectation, I'll probably lose interest. But she is really brilliant.
And, honestly, how many 30-something gays channel Kate Hepburn? That was something grandpa gay would do, not a bottomessa Ken Doll.
- FWIW, I thought the pilot was OK and sometimes funny; there was A LOT of plot to get through, so some of the show was forced. I thought the second episode relied too heavily on the inside joke of the little girl playing Little Edie. She's obviously gifted but I thought it was a real reach for a little girl to be sustaining something like that on and on and I thought it gave the show a fakey/campy vibe. I began to care less about what has to be the essential core of the show and the three people involved in it -- two out gay men who want a baby, and their surrogate, and the various real life issues that create problems for them. That can be funny but I do think we have to care about them as actual people in an unusual (for most people) situation with both stresses and triumphs and some suspense, too. Logic and verisimilitude are obviously not essential for a sit com, but a core with some authenticity is needed for something to sustain over time, at least IMO.
- You just know the Little Edie bit is an early sign of how this show will play out. Ryan Murphy eats some weird food, has a bad campy dream and wakes up screaming the contents to a team of writers who then work it into the show.
"We're doing Valley of the Dolls this week."
"We're doing a homage to Day of the Triffids. For some reason Ryan wants Karen Black in this episode as well."
"Will the dogfood scene from Showgirls get past network censors?"
- 99% of its target audience doesn't know who Little Edie is; the kid comes off retarded.
- LOL R160 you almost qualified for W&W but you got Day of the Locust and Day of the Triffids mixed up. Inexcusable.
- I just watched the first episode, and am totally perplexed at how it ended. In the final scene, the two men are standing their with the chick who's holding the pregnancy test. They say, "Soo....??" and she looks at it, and right before she tells them the test results *BOOM* they go to commercial. Then after the commercial, they immediately roll the credits! We never get the answer. But then the fucking teaser for the next show comes on saying, "Now that we know baby's on the way...blah blah blah." Huh? Did I fucking miss something? Did they really fuck that up that badly??
- Standing THERE, not their...oops.
- All is answered in the second episode R163, which you can watch online almost everywhere including on Hulu. Why don't you just watch it? It might be easier than just waiting for DL to provide you answers.
- I have all but given up on sitcoms because of laugh tracks. They make me crazy! Maybe that's why I like The New Normal and Go On. Obviously I'm easy to please. However, I think Matthew Perry is way hotter now than in Friends, and Ellen Barkin can be hilarious in her deadpan one-liners.
- Check out these hawt guys. Ooo baby!
- [quote]If 99% of its target audience doesn't know who Little Edie is the kid comes off retarded.
Exactly. Why reference something that most people haven't seen or know anything about? You couldn't even understand what the little half-wit was mumbling to herself. It was strange and not appealing.
- Seriously are you all so dense about why the little girl was doing Little Edie's voice? It was to show her alienation from her classmates, who certainly wouldn't know who Edie Beale was, and allow her to bond with Brian, who certainly would (while his partner wouldn't).
The audience was given enough information about Grey Gardens through the characters' dialogue to understand that the little girl was imitating the voice of some oddball eccentric. That's really all they needed to know to follow the plot.
That it was Little Edie, who might be recognized by some people, and give them a little added extra smile, was a bonus to those who know and love Grey Gardens.
- R160, that was intentional. Hence the "for some reason" bit. Ah well.
I agree with R169. If sitcoms could only reference what 99% of the target audience would recognise then every show would be King of Queens.
- I wasn't looking for answers, R163. I was just wondering why the hell they'd end it like that and then "spoil" with their next week's preview. It made no sense.
- Andrew Reynold's character is such a prissy femme fop. I just wanted to smack the shit out of him and tell him to butch it up.
- It's hard to take seriously some queen who wants to butch up someone by bitchslapping him, Joan Collins.
And it's Rannells, not Reynolds.
- I'm pleasantly surprised that I like it as much as I do, because I smelled a DOA turd with those ads, but I find it funny and heartwarming.
I wish that we would get beyond the "one swishy, one normal" stereotype when depicting gay couples, but it's a sitcom so two "straight men" (so to speak) would be boring.
Nene is actually very funny, but she has breath control issues and I wish they could make her a bit more than a "sassy black woman."
- [quote]Nene is actually very funny, but she has breath control issues and I wish they could make her a bit more than a "sassy black woman."
Yeah, just what the show needs: another unflattering stereotype.
- Everybody on that show is a sterotype.
- "Men-adjacents (Andrew Rannels) like him don't get men like Bartha's character in real life. Ever."
But I liked how they sort of explained that with a flashback to their first encounter in a gay bar. Bartha, a former mathlete, comes into the bar with his nerdy medical school friends. He has frizzy, curly hair, and his father's glasses. Rannels almost turns him away, until Bartha takes off his glasses for a moment, and Rannels is stunned by his blue eyes. You get the idea that Bartha's character now looks hot because Rannels's character took him on as a fixer-upper.
So although I don't think Rannels would ever end up with Bartha in real life, I believe he might end up with the character that Bartha is playing.
- I did think the second episode was stronger than the first. This show does have a lot of problems but honestly I think Andrew Rannells and Justin Bartha are selling the hell of their relationship.
The scene where they met at the bar was cute and actually had a believable and realistic seeming chemistry. They also actually touch and kiss when appropriate like a real couple would.
This is definitely the best depiction of a gay couple on network TV right now so that alone will keep me tuning me.
- Ryan Murphy may be a total creep but he releases my idea of entertainment (Popular, Nip/Tuck, Glee, The Glee Project, The New Normal).
- It's the Cosby show for the gays, but the 80s are long over.
- It's very bold of this show to have a gay white couple who are having a white baby and not little Kim-Phuk-Mbebe from this year's third world country du jour. This is really breaking down barriers.
- [quote]This is definitely the best depiction of a gay couple on network TV right now so that alone will keep me tuning me.
Agreed. I'm so happy that they're so different than the gay couple on Modern Family, which is relies on unimaginative gay stereotypes.
The New Normal is so much better.
- Ellen Barkin cracked the the F up
- I think this show should get more credit for how amazingly gay-centric it is for a mainstream network sitcom -- Little Edie, gay men making fun of lesbians, and representing the one straight white guy as a female-addled moron, just for starters. If you think of it that way, the swishiness of Rannells' character takes on a different dimension. It's like Murphy has decided to really go for it without a lot of typical compromises, and we should be congratulating and thanking him for that.
- Uh, you do all know that Andrew Rannells has had some real life boy friends that are just as hot if not hotter than Justin Bartha?
- I'm happy for the progress on network TV, but I still cringe at the way overdone gay stereotypes.
- Gav, we're not talking about looks, we're talking about the fact that Rannells plays his character as close to a female without being in drag while Bartha drinks beer, plays sports, and is the "butch" one. Maybe for a night, not for a lifetime.
- Sit coms are about stereotypes.
- My gay-friendly dad said The New Normal is hilarious. He recommended I give it a shot.
- I don't like this show. That line about "if it weren't for the gays, my hair would never look this good" was very cliche and corny. The writing is very predictable and uninspired. Recycled gay humor we've all seen a million times. Nothing new here.
- r189, is he hot?
- "The writing is very predictable and uninspired. Recycled gay humor we've all seen a million times. Nothing new here."
Yes, on all those other sitcoms where two loving men adopted a child. I'm soooo sick of them.
- Usually having or adopting a baby is something that a sitcom does in the fourth or fifth season, when the characters are running out of juice and the writers are desperate.
How innovative to skip those first few good seasons and jump the shark on your first episode.
- [quote]It's very bold of this show to have a gay white couple who are having a white baby and not little Kim-Phuk-Mbebe from this year's third world country du jour.
This is groundbreaking. The stereotype is a Chinese baby, like Lily for Cam and Mitchell on Modern Family.
TNN is groundbreaking in more ways, though. It shows the gays as successful instead of sad sack side kicks of a more interesting character (SATC) and avoids having one be queeny while the other partner is "normal."
Also, a lot of the jokes about stereotypical gay behavior are avoided - there's no gay hairdresser, no squealing, and the characters are focused on the joy of having a baby and not on being eternally youthful, etc. This show will be very popular among gays and women, because it's about joy and hope, not tired old bigoted stereotypes.
- What r188? Have you never heard of or watched sitcoms that have made enormous changes? It's because they show how stereotypes need to be changed.
- This show is supposed to be loosely based on Ryan Murphy & his partner. He's not going to change the personalities because someone thinks he's too much of a stereotype.
And the stereotypical Will & Grace caused a VP to convince the Pres to come out in favor of marriage equality before a very contentious election and add it to a political party platform. That's an example of making an enormous change.
I agree with the person who said that this show is a big deal because it's one of the first network shows where the gay couple is the main star & not the side show character. That's actually amazing progress.
- justin Bartha is so hot. He survived Gigli.
- I'm currently downloading the pilot in 720p. I'll report back, but be forewarned, I'm not going to hate it just because one of the characters is femme. Sorry femmephobes.
- How about hating a character who is superficial and a bore?
- Love the kid's Little Edie!
- Eagerly awaiting R198's opinion.
- R194 I'm guessing you haven't watched the show.
I guess I'm fine with having such a male-adjacent lead coupled with a masculine lead. Sure, it hardly ever happens in real life, but I guess it's our version of the Fat Husband/Thin Wife Syndrome rampant in lame CBS sitcoms.
- Only ONE person has mentioned the anti-lesbian humor in the show??
- R203 the co creator of the show is an out lesbian Ali Adler so she's approving this type of humor. One of the comments was made by the grandma who also made racist & other homophobic comments as well. The other comment by the gay couple was probably the kind of off the cuff remark gay people probably do say about lesbians.
Sometimes all the colors of the rainbow don't always coexist in endless harmony. Lots of evidence for that. Maybe they're just trying to keep the humor sharp with an edge like a modern day all in the family. Who knows. You may start seeing jokes about bisexual biphobia and politically incorrect transexual humor.
- The New Normal also plans to add a lesbian couple later on down the road.
- Hate the idea of gays adopting and marrying as a whole. Celebrate your individuality, don't copy straights. Fuck and suck with as many partners as possible. Avoid monogamy.
- and avoid this show. Partners is the gay sitcom with promise, from the creators of "Will & Grace."
- All the early reviews say The New Normal was the most promising of the two and that the Partners pilot is pretty weak.
I'll never understand gays like you R206, thats fine if you want that lifestyle but there are plenty of us that don't want to spend our life just having meaningless sex.
- September 18, 2012
NBC has begun airing their new show "The New Normal" with the subtitles "A post-modern family" and "She's Having Their Baby." NBC's website describes the program as: "These days, families come in all forms - single dads, double moms, sperm donors, egg donors, one-night-stand donors... It's 2012 and anything goes. Bryan and David are a Los Angeles couple and they have it all. Well, almost. With successful careers and a committed and loving partnership, the one thing missing is a baby."
To sum it up, this show is about a homosexual couple who hire a surrogate to have their baby. The first episode mocks anyone who disagrees with their sinful lifestyle choice through the character of the grandmother. The script refers to those who oppose their decision as intolerant and a bigot during the show. There is also a graphic bedroom scene where the surrogate walks in on her now soon to be ex-husband who is completely nude and in the act with another woman. The most saddening is the child who plays the part of the surrogate's eight-year-old daughter who is cast in a program that is inappropriate for anyone, but especially for someone her age that is being exposed to information she is too young to understand.
This unsuitable program airs before 10:00 p.m. which is primetime and when children are likely awake especially in the Central Time Zone. The show airs on Tuesday evenings at 9:30/8:30 p.m. Central. It is no surprise that openly gay Ryan Murphy is one of the executive producers and director. Murphy also brought us "American Horror Story," "GLEE," and "Nip/Tuck."
NBC is using public airwaves to continue to subject families to the decay of morals and values, and to belittle the sanctity of marriage in attempting to redefine marriage. These things are harmful to our society, and this program is damaging to our culture.
Millions of Americans strongly believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman. NBC's "The New Normal" is attempting to desensitize America and our children. This storyline is the opposite of how families are designed and created.
One Million Moms warned NBC we would contact any and all sponsors of this program if they continue to broadcast it.
Please email the sponsors of NBC's "The New Normal" and strongly encourage them to no longer financially support this program. Sponsors include: L'oreal, Olive Garden, Macy's, Arby's, CVS, and Walgreens.
Help us urge advertisers to place it on their "do not advertise" list and consider pulling all ads from the NBC network in protest.
Send Your Letter Now!
- this looks really corny and won't last.
- R206 = Slutty McSluterson. Also, he's a whore.
- OMM must be full of crap mothers. Kids still up watching TV at 10pm? Put the little bastards in their rooms with a book.
- I just got back from the mall and saw the cutest little kid. I think I''m going to ask my bf if we can hire a surrogate. I'm soooooo bored.
- Just a reminder that a new ep is airing now.
- The show is really growing on me. Tonight's episode was a nice balance of all the elements. They did a good job of highlighting just how ridiculous people can be.
- I am enjoying the show although I too am so sick of the sissy husband/ straight acting husband trope. The scene tonight when the gay couple was confronted by the straight father trying to "protect" his kid was very real and very moving. I think I would have had the same reaction to that attack.
- No Moose Nene tonight!
Hope that is a trend.
- I want Justin Bartha to have his way with me.
- I thought tonight's episode was pretty good.
- OP here. I tried it again tonight. The first scene involved the one queen talking about Dolce & Gabbana baby clothes. A couple lines later, he was ready to dress a baby in Swarovski crystals. That was enough for me.
There seems to be an audience for this. I would have guessed it was divorced 40-year-old legal secretaries who wish they had a Gay Best Friend to take them to El Torito for "strawberry maggies," but from this thread it looks like it's got some gay following. To each his or her own, I guess.
- Definitely an edgier episode especially for network tv. I've seen indications Red heads & fans of Reba are especially pissed off. I'm curious how the mentally handicapped association will react as well.
- Just to add to what some people said about the little girl doing Little Edie. It would've been more believable if she had caught the Barrymore/Lange film on TV or something 'cause it's not only a movie, but the most recent version and a lot of young people are more familiar with the story through that movie. But they had the little girl watch the documentary, which I didn't find realistic. But I can see a girl who likes Drew and her rom-com movies want to emulate her bizarre character in the HBO movie.
- Same here, r220. The target audience seems to be fat, lonely fraus who wish they had a pet fag who was a screaming queen to go shopping with them and have drinks. I was done with this show after the second episode. Insulting claptrap.
- I'm enjoying it.
To each his own.
- Just watched 3rd ep. God, Ryan Murphy really likes to shoehorn issues into his shows doesn't he? The second the guy with Downs Syndrome appeared onscreen you just knew a point was going to be made.
Also, the bigoted straight guy just had to be fat and unfashionable. There's such a thing as a hot homophobe. The DL is full of guys who lust after them.
- What did you guys, and I use the term loosely, think of Jason, the bearded man who got punched? I sure can pick 'em, can't I?
- Does this new Ryan Murphy show mean that American Horror Story is going to turn to shit now?
- I know Ryan Murphy is pretty polarizing for many but I have to say, I appreciate the fact that he tries to have diversity in his shows & hires the mentally or physically disabled and gives them a voice which is not always the nice ones people expect.
The bigoted straight guy to me was not portrayed as a fat slob but more like how your average shopper looks like, a normal family out shopping with his wife and cute little girl. Besides this, he also showed that gay people can be bigots as well (the guy at the gym).
I actually think Ryan is really aiming his show at a gay audience just by bringing up these little home truths. With all the bitching and moaning on here about who's a flamer, I expect he'll run an episode at some point showing how gay people have their own internal prejudices, bullying & in fighting about acting 'too gay'.
- You know, I am trying to root for this show, but the writing is so inconsistent that I have just started to give up on it. Sure, the Reba slam was pretty good, but there is such a dearth of good jokes on this show that it just can't be an accident. Andrew Rannells screeching over designer baby wear only to be followed by a scene where he displays rightgeous indignation in an outlet mall. And Ryan Murphy's direction is so messy that a crucial scene in a gym juice bar just whizzes by and you have no idea what the characters were saying. It's just an all out mess.
- The ammount of things he tries to give a voice to is great, but it's just handled so badly and barely emerges organically from the characters and situations. It was like being poked in the eye while someone with a megaphone proclaims "people with disabilities can be assholes too!".
Also, does anyone in real life ever use the word handi-capable? Did the person who came up with that word also coin "chairperson" and "womyn"?
- Can you imagine how unbearable Murphy is going to make "The Normal Heart"? Julia Roberts's doctor character will probably have Downs Syndrome too.
"Naaaahd! You need to twell erryone to stawp habbin shex!"
- R231 you cunt, I can't stop laughing!
The Normal Heart will have endless scenes with the music telling us how to react whilst characters stare longingly at each other.
I can't wait for Larry Kramer's reaction. Streisand's beige color schemes and soft-focus lighting would be preferable to what RM will do with it.
- There has been more same-sex kissing in three episodes of "The New Normal" than in the entire run of "Will and Grace."
Yes, Murphy can be all over the place but I do like this show. It's cute. It has two hot male leads who show affection naturally and I buy them as a couple.
Someone needs to give Ellen Barkin a chew toy and keep her away from the main action.
- The first time I saw gay men kiss on TV was an episode of Kids in the Hall and I immediately threw up. Not because I was offended but because I was afraid. Now to see this couple kiss so often and on a Network sitcom makes me so proud and happy to be born when I was.
- [quote]Also, does anyone in real life ever use the word handi-capable?
I do, but mostly in jest.
I don't know, the show isn't exactly the most sharply written thing I've ever seen, but I do find it somewhat charming, although I'll be damned if I can say exactly why.
The Voice of the Night
- Yes, VoTN me too! I think the leads are just very good together and they elevate the writing.
- I don't think this crap will last. Too cliche and crass to me.
- I like the show. I like that struggle of drama and comedy with the writers and creators trying to find a balance. It's like watching a baby's first steps.
But why would a dad buy his kid a training suit from a gym he just got banned for life? Seems like an odd memorabilia.
- I liked the bearded gay guy that Justin Bartha punched. Hot and hairy!
- [quote]The ammount of things he tries to give a voice to is great, but it's just handled so badly and barely emerges organically from the characters and situations.
That's how I felt. It was like he wrote down all the scenes on index cards to help structure the episode, but didn't bother to bridge any of it. You can see the script on screen as it barrels wildly between comedy and drama.
Really, for a single camera show it feels like a hokey 3-camera comedy.
And if I never see another TV queen obsess over labels it'll be too soon.
- There's a label sub-plot on the new season of Glee.
I noticed Ryan directed this episode -- I didn't know he directed, too.
- [quote]I noticed Ryan directed this episode -- I didn't know he directed, too.
Neither did I.
- I honestly don't understand the haters. I especially like the guy wh watches a few minutes and turns it off and thinks his opinion has any validity. It's like watching It's a Wonderful Life and turning it off after an hour and declaring it too depressing.
- You know something is wrong when you start praying for Nene Leakes to come in and attempt to speak her dialogue.
- I just find it strange that the one from "The Book of Mormon" has no problem standing up to a stranger in a store, but won't stand up to the toxic Ellen Barkin. He's so worried about their baby being exposed to hate, when he invites it into his home on a weekly basis. He has no reason to invite her in, or even talk to her-and, in fact, her grandaughter drove across the country to escape her, so it's not like she would be put out. and, on top of that, she actually kidnapped a strangers child, but they are blithely unconcerned about what she may do once their child is born. Honestly, if you put any thought into this show, it all falls apart.
- So far, I'd been kind of "meh" about the series, but I have to admit the mall scene with the straight dad and the aftermath were pretty impressive, especially for network TV.
- That scene with the homophobic dad made me really uncomfortable, so I think it did its job.
The bearded dude that the doctor-dad punched was seriously hot.
And, again, God help me, the "With Six You Get Egg Roll" joke cracked me up something fierce. Probably because even though Ellen Barkin chews the scenery like a woodchuck, she has great timing.
The Voice of the Night
- [quote]I honestly don't understand the haters. I especially like the guy wh watches a few minutes and turns it off and thinks his opinion has any validity.
That would be me. I can put down a shit sandwich after a couple of bites. The other end of the sandwich might be peanut butter, but I play the odds.
- I'm not sure why the OP/R249 even bothered to watch the show since he obviously had predetermined the show as a turd before even setting down to watch it.
He's right up there with the million moms who were ready to boycott this show without watching it first. Why bother, when you have prejudices that you're hoping to hang onto.
Maybe he should just post his review of the new show Partners now. I know it hasn't premiered as yet but why wait. Just cut to the chase now. I bet Michael Urie is going to play a bit of a flamer so this show is bound to earn the ire of all the he men posting on here including the OP.
- The show dipped in the ratings again. It scored 6.08 million with a 2.2 demo, quite a dip from the Go On lead-in of 9.28 million and 3.4 demo.
Any other network would probably cancel it but since it's NBC and they have a much lower bar, they'll probably keep it around for a while.
- NBC other comedies include Parks & Recs which averages 4.4 mil/ 2.2 rating. It also renewed Whitney (5.1 mil, 2.2 ratings) and Up All NIght (5.3 mill, 2.4 rating). So these numbers for The New Normal aren't bad for the network.
They're soft though and the problem will be if they dip too far when the show faces real competition next week like DWTS, The Mindy Project & NCIS L.A. I think NBC will be happy if it stays in the high 1's like a 1.8 or 1.9 next week.
- [quote]I'm not sure why the OP/[R249] even bothered to watch the show since he obviously had predetermined the show as a turd before even setting down to watch it.
No, dear. That's why I sat down to watch it -- because I was interested in it.
[quote]He's right up there with the million moms who were ready to boycott this show without watching it first. Why bother, when you have prejudices that you're hoping to hang onto.
No, dear. I'm not suggesting a boycott. I sampled the show twice. And my only prejudice is toward cloying writing.
[quote]Maybe he should just post his review of the new show Partners now. I know it hasn't premiered as yet but why wait. Just cut to the chase now. I bet Michael Urie is going to play a bit of a flamer so this show is bound to earn the ire of all the he men posting on here including the OP.
No, dear. I don't care if characters queen out. I care if they're funny. This wasn't.
Why does it matter so much to you?
- There's nothing to understand, R244. This is a time-honored DL phenomenon. Every single show containing a gay character is eviscerated for "perpetuating stereotypes," i.e. gays that are not exactly like straight people. The only exception in 15 years was that recent sitcom that had a fat, sloppy gay guy who liked football. You'd have thought that show was delivered straight from heaven by a chorus of angels. Not a single fault could be found with its writing, directing, or acting.
Be prepared to hear about all these other shows' shortcomings for as long as they're on the air. Even though they've already decided the shows are horrible, rest assured they will watch them every week just so they can come tell us how wrong we are for liking them. They do it in the grand tradition of scholarly artistic criticism, because everyone knows if Pauline Kael were alive, she'd run to the internet every week for years on end just to post "This show SUUUUUUUCKS!" for the 100th time. So edifying.
- [quote]I expect he'll run an episode at some point showing how gay people have their own internal prejudices, bullying & in fighting about acting 'too gay'.
I did like the one line where Rannells tells Bartha that he hates when he pretends not to care or know about certain things just to appear less gay. i.e. Terry Bradshaw vs. Carrie Bradshaw.
- Wasn't it Cary Grant vs. Carrie Bradshaw?
- Haha, I love R254. And there is truth to that, its so weird to me to see gay guys hating a gay character on TV for doing things they actually do. Yes, there is some truth to overtly stereotyping, but lets be honest, a lot of the queens at the DL just don't like being called out.
- If a television show had a gay character who looked and acted like most of us it would be the most boring show on television.
- Any gay man who wasn't moved by the scene at the mall and the follow up scene in the bedroom must have grown up with lesbian moms in SF. How Rannells portrayed it is exactly how we feel here in flyover when we see our "friends" on the news laughingly praising Chik Fil A while waiting in line on "Hate the Fag, Eat Mor Chikin Day".
Bartha's character is awkward and makes weird choices so the Equinox track suit fits, though it is indeed weird.
I still don't see where they can go with Barkin, but she is funny in a not really part of the show way.
- Is justin bartha gay.?I get vibes from him and he's "good" friends with jesse eisenberg.
- That didn't take long. They're going to spoof "Honey Boo Boo."
- In another interview (Is Ryan Murphy everywhere today?) he mentioned that the actress Bebe Woods was doing the Grey Gardens impressions when they were doing the pilot and so he decided he had to incorporate it into the show.
This is for those who thought it unbelievable that a little girl would know anything about Grey Gardens. Some do apparently.
- R222\tThat little girl's character is supposed to be an odd duck of sorts. She more than likely grew up with cable and saw the documentary.
When I was a child I was rather ill and stayed up late as a result. The first time I saw a Truman Capote interview I did an imitation the following day and kept it in my repertoire until my voice changed.
Children are sometimes attracted to unique things. I am still astonished as to how well that child did that Little Edie imitation. Whoever does the casting on some of the shows (not so much "Glee") Ryan Murphy does is really good.
- Not only quoting the movie, but using the voice and mannerisms in other daily situations.
- Did anyone notice that one of the comments at R261's link is R160 from this thread, which was posted almost two weeks ago? What's that about?
- LMAO, loving tonight's episode already. You can't get anymore real than the political jabs and the ever so elusive discussion gays and race relations!
- This was easily the funniest episode. I do think Ryan Murphy is pushing a lot of buttons with his show. Red haired people are still writing pissed off comments about last weeks episode. Now he brings up politics and Obama & Romney with a very divided country. The race discussion was interesting as well.
- I repeat-there is absolutely no reason that toxic woman should be in any of their lives. It's really no longer funny, it's masochistic. Why would they stand there silently, knowing that they have valid reasons for voting for Obama, when she accused them of voting for Obama only because he's black? The message became so heavy handed I thought I was watching Glee. Ryan Murphy kills his own child faster than usual.
She's not funny-she's a cunt
- No matter how bad it is, it can't be worse than "Partners."
- Tonight was insufferable. Heavy-handed is an understatement.
- When the 9/25 episode started I wasn't sure where it was going. I was surprised it quickly turned to skewering racism in the gay community. I think it was a good subject to address, to steer away from being formulaic and stereotypical. It was also surprising how even-handed they were with the politics.
- I thought it was pretty good about the pro-choice stuff. There aren't any easy answers.
- great show tonight :)
- Good episode - and the black brother was gorgeous.
- R268. You badly need to take a long shit.
- I think he did in that post, r275.
- RM seems to do about 4 interviews a week when his shows are airing.
- Bryan (Andrew Rannells) and Jane (Ellen Barkin) have become the best part of the show. The other characters are starting to become just background noise.
- I thought it was a bit of a more nuanced ep, though I'm getting sick of the music and the gay couple doing their collective concerned stares like they're about to burst into tears every episode.
The party scene was obnoxious though, the way it looked like it was turning into a "gang up on the republican" meeting.
It's no Maude, or even Murphy Brown, in presenting political issues without beating the audience to death with them.
- "It was also surprising how even-handed they were with the politics."
Even-handed? First you have to believe in the false equivalency that not having any black friends to invite to a party means you're a hypocrite for voting for Obama.
- The show's premise about Obama is false -- we don't vote for him because he's black, but because he espouses our causes and actually does something about them, e.g., ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
The fact that he knows gay people, isn't afraid of us, hires us to work for him, and comes out in favor of same-sex marriage are also pretty good reasons to support him.
- Of course a lack of black friends does not make someone a racist, R280. But Nana pushed their buttons to aggravate their upper-class liberal guilt, and they fell for it. Just because she was able to make them question their convictions doesn't make her right.
I've never understood supposedly enlightened, educated liberals who panic when a conservative tries to argue with them. If your beliefs can't stand up to a challenge, then they weren't very strong to begin with. Questioning your own opinions now and then strengthens them, just like working a muscle. Nana hit the boys at a weak spot, but they ended up stronger because of it.
- The New Normal (2.0/5) was down 9% from lst week.
- My mother is one of those mystical black Republicans who is voting for Romney. We used to be very close when I was younger, but the gay issue has driven a wedge into our relationship. We have made great strides though, even though she stands strong in her beliefs and I stand strong in mine. We have not agreed on anything in a long, long time when it comes to politics or entertainment. The New Normal is the kind of show my mother would NEVER watch. I suggested she catch the last show on Hulu because I thought it was very funny and I liked it a lot.
She texted me that she liked it and thought it was very funny. I know it's silly, but that text gave me goosebumps and just about made me cry.
- Your reply just about made ME cry, R284. I'm not being a smartass. That is really great that you and your Mom found some common ground in this program. I had an experience at work where discussing this show morphed into a pretty useful discussion about marriage equality. I work with a bunch of ultra conservatives, and having them actually listen to what I have to say without yelling is unusual. Several of them, while still clinging to the biblical issue, were able to voice that the civil rights grounds for this movement are sound. I know it won't sway their vote, but it's a start right?
- [quote]he espouses our causes and actually does something about them, e.g., ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Don't start that crap again. Pelosi and Reid got rid of DADT despite all the speed bumps put in place for two years by Obama and Rahm E.
- You're mad, r286. They did it with his full support and encouragement.
While it was going on I was impatient and angry with Obama, but I see now that it was a much better way to do it through congress and with the support of the military rather than with a unilateral order as commander-in-chief. This way it is far more unlikely to be overturned or argued against -- it's not even an issue now and it's here to stay.
- Justin Bartha. Family?
- Murphy tweeted that Nicole Richie and George Takei are joining the cast.
- I was a little nauseated when I heard the Nicole news. The cast is so good...why dumb it down? I hope it is a little cameo playing herself on Bryan's show or something that comes and goes very quickly. I haven't seen her do anything recently except sell perfume.Maybe she has become an actress while I wasn't paying attention. I actually like NeNe. I was surprised. Maybe she is a secret talent.
- Is Justin Bartha really short, or is Andrew Rannels really tall or always standing on apple boxes in their scenes together?
- Andrew is over six feet tall.
- George takei and Nicole Richie will play themselves on the show.
- A dog will join the cast as well.
- They just need a Native American and a disabled person and the cast will be complete.
- In the last episode, there was a scene where Andrew Rannels' tampon string was clearly visible.
- No one else is watching tonight?
The actors/characters seemed to have calmed down a bit, but there hasn't been a single laugh the whole episode.
- I really liked tonight's show.
What is it with Murphy and talentless whores like Nene and Nichole Richie?
Thankfully, Nene was not on tonight.
I was surprised how bluntly the characters can talk to each other. It veers out of sitcomland in an instant.
- The strange thing about all the “progress” we’re always hearing about when it comes to gay and lesbian characters on TV? Nothing ever seems to change.
Take the latest dubious example, the new CBS sitcom “Partners,” which premiered last week to deservedly tepid ratings and mostly negative reviews. The giveaway is right there in the tag line: “From the Emmy-winning creators of ‘Will & Grace.’” The series follows gay Louis (Michael Urie) and straight Joe (David Krumholtz), lifelong buds and business partners, whose platonic intimacy is forever getting in the way of their romantic relationships. It’s “Will & Grace” with a gender reassignment — an attempt by creators David Kohan and Max Mutchnick to explore what it might mean, in our post-metrosexual era, for two men to find emotional sustenance from a person of the opposite sexual orientation.
Or at least that’s the theory. In practice, “Partners” is little more than mud in the eye of any viewer searching out more complex representations of gay people on television. Louis (Michael Urie) is a walking (or, perhaps more accurately, swishing) compendium of queer clichés: He likes Broadway musicals, interior decorating and gesticulating wildly as he tosses off his arch zingers. (Think Sean Hayes’ Jack from “Will and Grace,” except more shrill.) Joe, meanwhile, is the straight man in every sense of the term, the straitlaced, put-upon hero perpetually exasperated by his friend’s zany antics. Though the show has supporting characters — Brandon Routh as Louis’ boyfriend, Sophia Bush as Joe’s fiancée — Louis’s behavior is so divalike and demanding of attention that you barely even notice anyone else on the screen. Why reinforce merely one or two crude stereotypes when you can reinforce dozens?
The temptation with a show this evidently inept is to brush it aside as another sitcom with little hope of making it to mid-season — this year’s “Work It” or “How to Be a Gentleman.” But arriving six years after its antecedent “Will & Grace” finished its run — and following more than a decade of gay-themed efforts that put forth a shockingly puny and narrow vision of modern gay American life — “Partners” calls into question one of the firmest-held bits of conventional wisdom in television history: Has “Will & Grace,” the landmark show that gay men have long been told to exalt above all others, ultimately done more harm than good? Was it social progress that Kohan and Mutchnick’s creation engendered, or did they develop a built-in set of limitations on how homosexuality might be represented on TV?
- Everyone gets stereotyped to some extent in a sitcom. I watched Partners and M. Urie tells the girlfriend of his BFF that she needs to COOK FOR HER FIANCE after he tells her SHE NEEDS TO BE SEXY AND HAVE SEX with him in order to keep him. The only thing left to make this 1970's advice complete is for him to suggest she answer the door wearing nothing but a seran wrap holding a Baked Alaska.
In that case, the person being stereotyped is THE WOMAN & given sexist advice. How many shows have a sassy black friend or the Latino with the funny accent. Welcome to the club Gay men, now you're being stereotyped just like the rest of America on TV.
And it's funny how oversensitive some of you are about it. If you'll notice straight people who don't like shows like The New Normal complain about it being Pro Obama, or the Nana character being racist or homophobic or that they're showing Gay people as being too nice. They don't give a crap who's too stereotypical, they just hate you exist at all on their TV screen.
The ones bitching about how gay men being portrayed as too flamingly bitchy are ironically mainly the bitchy Gay people.
- Also NBC has ordered a full season for The New Normal as well as Go ON and Revolution.
- Great! A full season for Ellen Barkin to get even more shrill and unfunny! Huzzah!
- I noticed with tonight's episode that they stopped having the show be a comedy. I liked it better when it had humor.
- That old saying about how a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich?
A grand failure of a network will renew a shit sandwich, and this is proof.
- NBC also ordered a second season of Whitney. Case closed.
- R287 = fanboy we all used to make fun of. Welcome back!
- [quote]The show's premise about Obama is false -- we don't vote for him because he's black, but because he espouses our causes and actually does something about them, e.g., ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Back in 2008, millions did vote for him due to his race. This year, blacks may still give him overwhelming support because of it, but the rest of us who are voting for him are doing so because he's done a good job, and the right is fucking crazy!!
Btw, Obama gave up on DADT. He didn't lift a finger to get it repealed. Pelosi and Reid saved us. He didn't stump for it, which is what outraged Pelosi. He's been the best in terms of gay equality however! Historic actually! We need to continue Progressive power in government. We're getting our first openly gay senator next month!!!
- this show is watchable but not in the least bit funny isnt it supposed to be a comedy?
and Andrew Rannells gives me the creeps
(and again, is this the same prissy snarky image of gay men that needs to constantly be what represents a hugely diverse community to a national audience)??
- Fantastic episode. Best one yet.
- I hvaen't watched yet, just the previewxs. But the previews totally turned me off: are we supposed to believe that a late 50's, even 60ish woman - Ellen Barkin's character - has never had an orgasm or seems to know what one is? Are you fucking KIDDING Me? ON what planet?? I'm her age (yes, old); came of age in the 70's, and anyone - other than the Amish or some damn thing - wouldn't be THAT surprised by an orgasm, so much so to go to the dr. Give me a break.
I'm a proud hag, love Andrew R, love Ellen Barkin; have watched 2 or episodes but again, the preview was enough to put me off.
Willing to think I'm being overly judgmental??Thanks.
Disappointed (so far) hag
- R310, do you ever read those advice columns or listen to Dan Savage and his ilk? A lot of women seem to be confused by orgasms.
Fundie christians and devout Catholics might often only be having bland missionary sex for the purpose of having kids. It's not a stretch to imagine many of them haven't had a decent orgasm.
- I don't complain about gay dudes being portrayed as femmy or non-mainstream on tv shows. I just am not interested in watching gays portrayed in such a stereotypical manner. It is not interesting or fresh to me, nor entertaining. It is tired. It is more of a matter of not appealing to me rather than me denouncing it for everyone else.
- I don't get a Jack McFarland feeling from Andrew Rellen's character. I think his character is much more self aware and in on the joke. I think those of you who say he is playing a nelly stereotype aren't really watching. Maybe I'm a sucker for the real hurt he showed in the mall episode but I already see substance there that didn't exist in Jack and is only shown sometimes on Modern Family (love MF, love Cam, no clue why that actor keeps getting Emmy's though).
Both of those characters are smart enough to know why they vote for Obama and to have an answer ready. I fault Murphy for a cheap shot at some false equivalency.
- "I don't complain about gay dudes being portrayed as femmy or non-mainstream on tv shows. I just am not interested in watching gays portrayed in such a stereotypical manner."
So, what exactly are you complaining about? If it isn't that they are "femmy," what is stereotypical of their portrayal?
- All I have to say is this: for a show that (most) people here don't like, 314 posts, and counting, is very impressive!
- Amen, r315!
- Do they have any gay writers under the age of 60 working on this show?
I didn't think so.
- [quote]I don't get a Jack McFarland feeling from Andrew Rellen's character. I think his character is much more self aware and in on the joke. I think those of you who say he is playing a nelly stereotype aren't really watching.
The argument in the kitchen with Jackie Hoffmann is a perfect illustration. I don't remember the line but she slapped him for the princess snark of his response and he showed is that that was his intent. Pretty smart writing and acting.
- I don't particularly care for it, but it has moments and I'm watching it every week if only to make sure that a gay show that is out there trying is supported at least by gays. Each week has been better that the first episode at least and again, there are moments each week that I find funny or touching. I don't need it to totally rock my world right out of the gate so I'm glad it got picked up. I think it will continue to grow and get better as there is time to flesh out the characters - or at least that's what I hope.
- OMG! Andrew Randells is on Cam4. He put on temporary tattoos to disguise himself.
- Does anyone watch Partners?
- [quote]OMG! Andrew Randells is on Cam4. He put on temporary tattoos to disguise himself.
- Loved last night's episode. I wish they'd stop with the soapbox moments. It's not organic to the characters.
- ha! It HAD to be a gutter ball!
- Gotta admit - I teared up at the end.
- I don't know, but I have a real visceral reaction to Andrew Rennell's wardrobe on the show. I absolutely LOVE it. The tone on tone blue with the white belt at the quinceanera and the oxblood suit with the slate blue tone on tone shirt and tie - LOVE LOVE LOVE.
And no, I am not being facetious.
- ok. i give up. i tried to like it, i really did. but i cant.
the over-the-top cheesiness of the show is annoying, the gay jokes are tired, there is NO plot, the characters move between cliche (the young girl) and boring (the doctor).
its just not funny. at all.
- I wonder if they are Murphy Browning themselves with all the topical references.
- Doesn't matter r328, sitcoms don't last long in syndication anymore anyway. Not decades like they used to.
- NenNe is really the sassy black maid disguised as an 'assistant',isn't she?
- That wedding episode was unbearable.
- I just watched the 1 hour episode of Modern Family and really now notice how little affection Cam & Mitch show for each other in comparison to how David and Brian act with each other.
There were scenes with Cam & Mitch where it looks like they're very uncomfortable touching each other. Even when Cam is crying in the episode, Mitch just pats him on the shoulder in an uncomfortable way.
Modern Family also had a scene in a store where the two gay employees there were all stereotypes. Then they also had 2 lesbians in the episode who fulfilled every stereotype there could possibly be--don't get along with gay men, one of the woman was doing a woodworking project and was a vegetarian and acted more butch than both Mitch and Cam.
In total contrast in The New Normal, they totally act like a couple who love each other. They show them touching, kissing, in bed and there's even implication they actually have sex with each other. They act like a real couple. For that alone I don't find the show unbearable. In fact some of it I find quite funny. I'll continue to watch it.
- r332 what you just point out is exactly why I have a very difficult time with gay couples on Modern Family (I don't even watch it anymore), as well as the other new show Partners. After 3 episodes the gay couple on Partners have barely even hugged each other, as opposed to their lovely heterosexual besties show affection like a real couple. There's no show like the New Normal in primetime television and there never has been. Say what you will about the show, but they took gay representation on American television to a another level.
- Based on how fast Ryan Murphy burns through storylines on Glee, I'm surprised Goldie hasn't had the baby yet.
- Full-season 22-episode orders to date went to the six highest-rated new series among adults 18-49, including NBC’s The New Normal (2.5/7).
- John Benjamin Hickey - great as the priest. And I LOVED the brunette lesbian!
- NeNe still doesn't have great comedic timing needing to deliver her lines. But I'm happy she has a job unlike some of the other housewives.
- Cringe worthy, trite and unwatchable. Makes gay men look silly. The little girl is a star though. That black maid woman, whatever her name is can't act, is too loud and as repulsive as the show.
- That you would think the woman of color was a maid says more about you than your post says about the actual show.
- Watching this show and Partners makes realize how much more I should have appreciated classic 70's sitcoms in their heyday...
Nothing about this show sticks with me. I've forgotten what I've just watched five minutes after it ends!
- I think, as sitcoms go, it's pretty good. There's actually some truth and brains buried in the jokes and insult comedy. And as R333 says, it's already gone places that no other sitcoms has.
- i watched an episode of MTM on ME tv the other night. It featured Mary, Phylllis and Bess. It was so funny and well written. Those were the days.
Who can light the world up with a smile
- I was sure I'd read (probably on here) that Cheri Oteri had some cosmetic work done that rendered her unrecognizable. But maybe that's just the excuse Lorne uses to not have her back for things like that Betty White SNL celebration because I eyeballed her right off on the new episode.
- Last night episode was pretty predictable and uninspiring, but I like the David Bartha character (even though he could do better than Andrew in the real world). Sure, there's too much talk about him being into Football, but at least he kisses men (as opposed to that guy on HAPPY ENDINGS), shows affection to men (as opposed to the gays on MODERN FAMILY) and say intelligent things (as opposed to the partners on PARTNERS).
So while the whole premise of the episode (NANNA on Twitter. really Ryan Murphy? And biting the hand that feeds with the GLEE parody). I'll keep watching for the positive portrayal by Bartha.
- Why did Bartha sign onto this show? His roles in the National Treasure sequel and both Hangover sequels should have netted him considerable paychecks even if he was paid very little for both of the series' first films. Is he a workaholic? Does he have some debt? Was he blackmailed into doing the show? Or was he convinced the show would have a lengthy run so he opted for the steady paycheck? His character is the least interesting and entertaining of the six primary ones on the show so I cannot imagine he was mesmerized by the role.
- Maybe it's because I don't watch Glee, but I thought the parody was hilarious.
I can't believe the network let them stick the line about needing a test tube and some lube in before 10pm.
- It is still smoothing out some rough spots but it is official - I love this show.
Admittedly, I fall for Ryan Murphy time after time, even against my better judgement but I enjoy it so much along the way.
This is a really believable gay couple. There is real affection and intimacy on screen, off cable all across America and to many countries this show (is) will be sold to.
The Glee meta in the last ep and Nanna on Twitter was funny, current, and on the mark.
- Halloween episode was absolutely hilarious with the little boy/girl. I didn't air in the US because of the Hurricane Sandy coverage. You all must see!
- R345 Palimony payments to Ashley Olsen.
- THANKS for the link, r348 - loved it!
- I have never known anyone anywhere that was anything like anybody on this show.
- The Cartoon Network has greenlighted "The New Nermal." Garfield's nemesis undergoes feline gender reassignment surgery. Hilarity ensues.
- [quote]Bryan is getting into the Halloween spirit by doing what he does every year -- decorating the house so that it is the envy of the neighborhood and making his annual trip to the pumpkin patch with his bestie Nicole Richie to spot celebrities.
This was supposed to make me want to watch it?
- The Thanksgiving Episode - BRILLIANT!
- It was so claptrappy r354. I can't believe people love this show. Maybe compared to most crap on tv it's passable, but it's so tired.
Neurotic family vents at holidays. Old people having sex for shock/laughs.
Yeah, that's original. So truly inspired.
- [quote]I just watched the 1 hour episode of Modern Family and really now notice how little affection Cam & Mitch show for each other in comparison to how David and Brian act with each other.
Three thoughts come to mind.
1) Who wants to see Cam being a romantic?
2) My husband and I grew up in a very red state and learned to refrain from PDAs for safety reasons. Once we met and left the state, we were pretty set in our ways and cuddling and kissing isn't really normal for us. We still love each other dearly, but sometimes those small expressions of love don't come normal to people. I'm not sure if this would apply to the characters on the show tho.
3) Come to think of it, I've never seen Phil and his wife or Ed and Sofia display much hugging and kissing either. So maybe it isn't just confined to the gay characters?
- Let me know when either of the leads -- or hopefully both -- are in drag. Then I'll watch it.
- Driven (by the same demon that compels one to opine for no reason) to say I HATED the Thanksgiving episode. I didn't buy any of it, all manipulation and posturing, never terribly funny, with a sickly sweet sentimental undertone that is typical of this show. Everyone else loves the little girl. I despise her as repulsively affected and 'off' if one believes she is 'real'; and otherwise, just a made up concept for a show busily manically trying to cover all the 'up to date' bases. In fact, only Bartha, the calmest character, seems believable to me -- every other character is pushed to a ludicrous level for cheap laughs doing improbable things (you mean Bartha's upper middle class parents would really have sex in public where he could find them, not to mention everybody else?). Why would they invite the surrogate's husband, who is trying to take her child, or for that matter, her grandmother who is his vicious and underhanded ally? Why would the grandmother stick around, where's her money come from? She lives in a hotel yet is a nobody from bumfuck? Anyone ever try to find an affordable, livable hotel in LA (when I used to go out there and work on writing staffs, finding a place to live always ate up a big % of the goodly amount I was making, and believe me, I avoided the deluxe and trendy and even the conveniently located and comfy). Yes, the guys act like a loving couple, yet bitchy rich queen, out-sized black tranny type chiseler, her brother who voted for Romney, the sit-com insufferable relatives at Thanksgiving are all stereotypes and in this amped up context, nauseating (the relatives I've seen at Thanksgiving, mine, partner's, pals, acquaintances have tended to be sour and sulky, not flamboyantly outrageous). Just hate it !!!
Yesterdays episode sucked. I didn't laugh once and I am starting to find Shania incredibly affected with her goof-ball hats and old soul-ness. The other guys pants really need to start fitting and some socks might be nice.
- Some barefeet would be nicer. Or even some socked feets without shoes.
- I always get a charge out of all you pissy, sour-faced queens who bitch and moan about how "The New Normal" (or, for that matter, fill in the title of any show of your choice) "sucks", "gets worse and worse", is "crap" and anyone who likes it is an idiot. AND YET, YOU OBVIOUSLY KEEP WATCHING! You must have pretty pathetic lives to so desperately need something like this to hate.
- Barry Bostwick not only looks old, but now he sounds like an old man.
I feel sooooooo old.
- Yesterday's episode was actually pretty funny.
- Too much NeNe. Ryan Murphy and other gays (Anderson and Andy Cohen) seem to be amused by her, but she does nothing for me.
I thought that Nutty Professor-style dinner table scene fell flat.
- I thought it was highly entertaining, especially the Nene and Ellen scenes.
- Why do sitcoms feel so obliged to do a Christmas and Thanksgiving episode every single year? I know they're major holidays, but how many times can you rejig the formula for those kind of episodes within one tv show?
- What I will say about this show is I laugh a few times an episode, it really is very good-natured at heart, that kid who plays Shania is a real find because it is very easy for child actors to be very annoying, and that guy who plays NeNe's brother is SMOKIN HOT.
That's enough to keep me watching.
- I've enjoyed the show up until the Thanksgiving episode, which was cringe-worthy. It was almost enough to make me delete the series recording from my DVR, but I'll give it another chance next week.
- Careful, R368! You'll give R361 a charge! One more and hopefully he'll drop dead!
- This show is great. Hoping Ellen Barkin gets some nominations
- R368 is a drama queen.
- and r369 is an asshole
- Just saw the Thanksgiving episode and hated almost every minute of it (and yes, I'm going to keep on watching.)
Every character seems to operate in a different sphere, the girl is so unrealistic and she can barely get some of the long-winded dialog out.
Barkin's hateful and not-funny character would never get away with the remarks she makes.
The constant name-dropping by the show-biz half of the couple is annoying as well, and will seriously date this series.
Nobody is as relentlessly stupid as the ex-husband. His non-sequitors and misunderstandings are tired and not even remotely amusing.
The characters of NeNe and her brother seem somewhat rooted in reality (and her memory scene was the only funny one in the show,) which is saying something because usually NeNe is the most absurd one in the room.
So no one liked the tofu turkey. Understandable. But what about all the many side dishes that were prepared for the meal, especially the ones by the gourmet mother (I usually love Jackie Hoffman but here she had nothing to do.) They order five pizzas for five people, including breadsticks and salad? Lazy writing with all that uneaten food sitting on the table and in the kitchen.
I can't believe Ryan Murphy screens these scripts and episodes in advance and gives his approval. He iss so brutal to the amateurs on the Glee Project yet seems to give a pass to the well-paid professionals on his staff.
- [quote]Just saw the Thanksgiving episode and hated almost every minute of it (and yes, I'm going to keep on watching.)
This is so fascinating to me. If you're game, R373, I'd love it if you could provide any insight on what motivates you to spend this much time, thought, and energy focused on something you don't like. I'm not challenging your right to express yourself, or trying to pick on you; I'm genuinely curious.
- I watched the first three episodes and cannot take anymore. The queeny character is TOO gay for me and talks way too fucking fast. It's not cute. I've deleted the program from my DVR--I'm out.
- R373 is nutty spending that much time watching and then writing about a show he obviously hates. I will agree though I did wonder why they didn't just eat the other side dishes instead of ordering different kinds of pizza. This little discrepancy however, did not inspire me to write a multi paragraph diatribe on the matter.
I think if you're only on DL you'd get the impression that this show is hated by a lot of gay men.
However, I've seen quite a few comments like these from gay people around the world who watches it. These are some quotes : "This show is how gay men and women should live. Not the way it's usually portrayed. Like we are only out to have sex and be raunchy. I think this show so far has been a show that shows how people should act."
or this one:
"I Wish One Day I Will Find A Guy And Have A Love As Joyous And True As Brian And David♥"
The comments like that one above usually coming from some of the younger gay guys out there. Maybe DL is filled with so much cynical elder gays they've forgotten what it's like to be young and gay and how much shows like these can actually mean to them.
- Why would you assume the negative comments were made by gay men, R376?
- Gays DO NOT eat breadsticks. I'm done with this show.
- Shania dressed as Cher while singing "Half-Breed" in the school auditorium was far more entertaining than anything going on with the two gay dads in this week's episode.
- Lots of people have criticized the pairing of Justin Bartha and Andrew Rannells but I really like them. The actors have terrific chemistry and make their characters a very believable and loveable couple.
- And has there ever been a gay boy couple on TV that KISSED this much with so much real affection?
As a gay dad I must say I always have a chuckle and I, once in a while ,get a tear in my eye at this show.
And I feel Andrew Rannells character is growing every week and becoming less of a TVland cliche.
Flame away, but I like this little show. And it is doing wonderful things to allow people to accept gay people. Oh yeah ... that.
- I like the show more and more each week. And yes, the physical affection between the two is wonderful to see on network TV.
- The posts from r381 and r382 show that I am not alone in liking the David/Brian relationship.
- EWW gross f l amers suck! Masc for Masc
- The Cher parody was hilarious. That actress truly deserves an Emmy! I hope she gets nominated, the same goes for Ellen Barkin.
- You know that they made Nana a member of One Million Moms?
- Enjoy it while you can. NBC did order a full season (22 episodes) of it, but who knows if it will get a second season as the ratings are pretty iffy. Still after the baby is born, I'm not sure where they could go with this show anyway.
I also like the David/Brian relationship. They have much better chemistry than Cam & Mitch on Modern Family.
- I thought the Cher imitation was weak and went on far too long. The child did a much more spot on Little Edie.
- That little girl is portrayed as so smart. Since she has previously has told the adults when they are being inappropriate, you'd think she would have been able to say ahead of time that 'Half Breed' isn't something that would fly in a public elementary school in 2012.
The show still doesn't make me laugh much, but I appreciate its heart so I stick with it. The new episode (Cher impersonation aside) was a little touching for me. Every character and each story probably hits each of us differently, but that one resonated with me.
What is the superior sex anyway? I always thought that phrase meant a female - but I think I get that from the Annie Lennox/Aretha song.
- Television By The Numbers says it'll likely be renewed.
It's a decent, well-written show and I enjoy it. It's exactly the kind of show I would've loved seeing as a teen. I was in high school when Ellen came out and I remember what a shitstorm it caused. A show like this would've meant an awful lot to me back then - I felt so isolated. It amazes me that this is on the air.
The chemistry between the two leads is great.
- I think they've set up the "life after baby" second season pretty well.
It will be the tension created by what extent they keep the mom and kid "in the family". Godparents, extended family relationships, etc. The title "The New Normal" seems to apply to the second season and beyond more than the first.
- I would imagine a lot of us here (myself included) can empathize with Bryan's character's feelings in this week's episode. Not necessarily the part about being a father, but how he never fit in as a child.
- What's Justin Bartha's story? I confess I find him completely adorkable. I assume he claims to be straight but damn he plays gay well. He's got the gay voice and liquid body language down perfectly. In fact the least convincing aspect of his character is his love of sports because he comes off so nelly. (Yes, I know there are thousands of gay guys who love sports. His character just doesn't believably seem like one of them.)
- TNN is trash that only celebrates the worst stereotypes about gay men.
- R394, what in gods name are you talking about?
- I would smell and lick Bartha's musky ass after he goes for a long jog. He's great on the show, and yes, the chemistry between him and Rannells is great. The rest of the show is very hit-or-miss, though.
- The whole Cher song at the school was a direct steal from the end of Little Miss Sunshine. Unoriginality aside, it also wasn't very funny.
They are trying too hard to make her quirky. I have a feeling Ellen Barkin will probably leave at the end of the season. They are not developing her character at all. Let her get here real estate license or find a house to live in, but don't have her stay in a hotel and do nothing.
I continue watching pretending Justin Bartha is my (relatively) macho doctor boyfriend.
- I love the show, it's just a sweet piece of cake.
The little girl is adorable and everyone else plays really well off of each other.
I never thought I'd like Nene Leakes. But all i can say is "go girl"!
I wish Goldie's redneck husband would be on more with the Axl (from the Middle) and walk around in his underwear.
- I'm still watching for the actual comic moments of the show. But I wish they would cut down on the Big Speech conventions. It's like the "I think we've all learned something today" parts in South Park, but that show was at least aware of how ridiculous those moments are.
Also, I get that they live in a huge house and part of this is probably a good excuse to have so many plots intertwine in one location, but a single-camera show without a laughtrack really should try to have a bit more variety with where scenes take place.
- It looks like there are some different location shots ( a California street?) for next Tuesday's episode. Nana and David supposedly get drunk together. Nana becomes a nicer person after drinking but somehow gets arrested.
- You mean to tell me this thing is still on the air?
- No r401. We are now 402 responses in about a show that got canceled.
- DL fave Marlo (a/k/a "Mario") Thomas was a guest star on tonight's episode. "That Girl" now looks more like "That Unfortunate Plastic Surgery Victim."
- "You mean to tell me this thing is still on the air?"
Honey--don't be a retard.
Do you realize Marlo is 75 years old?
I saw this show last night for the first time. Painful is my opinion
- I thought the New Normal was quite funny last night. I like that they showed the guys fighting & arguing without descending into Modern Family territory like Mitch & Cam who constantly bicker. It was also a nice change to see nana being nice & bonding with Brian.
I don't think the criticism of Marlo was about her age. My mother is that age and she does not look like death warmed over like Marlo does. Granted I'm partial & my mother has the dark skin that doesn't show age as much.
There's nothing wrong with plastic surgery, especially for older actresses. But they should try to look just a few years younger with decent skin tone. When you're trying to look a couple decades younger, you end up looking weirdly unnatural.
- last night's episode was genuinely funny. So funny it made up for the last two dud episodes.
- I didn't think there was a single funny line in the show last night.
- I still laugh about how thrilled Justin Bartha's character was when he found out about the baby being a boy.
- Maybe it's you R405 and R408. I did a trolldar on you and you've been posting since October about how much you hate this show. So you've been outed as a liar in your post at R405 pretending this is the first time watching this show. You've just shown your ugly troll colors.
- It wasn't just plastic surgery, but Marlo's is BAD plastic surgery.
- I had grave misgivings about this show, but it's actually really good, if a bit heavy-handed at times.
I worry about the second season, knowing the reputation of Ryan Murphy's shows (first season is great, then it goes to pieces).
- It took me a few episodes to realize it was never going to be a laugh-a-minute comedy like "Big Bang" is or that "Partners" aspired to be. It's definitely a true SITUATION comedy, and actually more like a dramedy at times. I enjoy it for the relationships and for the occasional wicked quip or funnr reference.
- It is a bit heavy on the issue of the week drama, but it finds ways to lighten up the mood.
I share r412's concern regarding the second season.
- I wouldn't call myself a fan but I appreciate that the show is trying to be different and that it's well-cast. I just can't stand Ellen Barkin and her character is awful. I switch the channel when she's onscreen.
I actually like Nene in this.
Your full of shit I have only been a member for a few weeks. Until last night I had never seen a full episode. I had seen promo clips on NBC.
That I don't like a show makes me a troll you miserable fuck?
- Apology to 412, my comments were intended for 
YOU follow people around that say something you don't like and call them a troll. You are the one trolling.
I thought the story line of the ONE full episode was clever. HOWEVER, the lines the actors are given are nothing short of cringe worthy. The clips I had seen before were equally cringe worthy. Pretending to not have seen the show? Get lost.
People who use Troll-Dar.
Are the Loneliest People.
- "Your full of shit". Oh, dear, r416. Even someone who has been a member for only a few weeks should know better.
- Let me be more specific. The lines as delivered are often trite, pointless and stereotypical.
It is the writing that makes this show unlikeable for me.
Meme whoever was not on the show last night. She is vulgar and loud and overacts. I have only one TV channel, have never seen one of the housewives of whereever shows. YES, I have seen clips of some of thems and dislike everything they are about. I think she came from one of them. I also have seen her on that Donald Trump thing and could not stand her. By the way I have never seen a full episode of that show either.
Truth is my TV is just on and I have seldom seen all of any show.
We don't all live in your world.
- Trolldar picked you up at R338 and R351 you at R416, R417 and R420
So you're the one who is full of shit. And at least I know where to put a fucking apostrophe.
This site is about among other things "pointless bitchery". You seem to have gotten that right.
Why don't you take a minute and tell me the rules. How many posts am I allowed per thread?
What am I allowed to say?
What opinions am I allowed to have?
Have you dogged this thread to call anyone that criticizes this show to call them trolls?
Set me right here so I don't ever offend anyone again ok?
What exactly is a troll and how do you qualify?
- It's been renewed for a second season. That says alot.
- [R423] No, it wasn't. It's still a few months before they will be able to make that decision.
- R422 I'd say you're a freep ing troll all right. You fit the profile:
The requisite semi racist comment: "That black maid woman, whatever her name is can't act, is too loud and as repulsive as the show."
The typical Freeper grammar: "It is the writing that makes this show unlikeable for me. " ". YES, I have seen clips of some of thems" And not knowing the difference between your and you're
The crazy talk: "I have only one TV channel" "truth is my TV is just on and I have seldom seen all of any show"
You're like straight out of central casting for a freeper troll.
Let's see, you have posted 20 times on this thread.
I called no one a black woman. That she can't act makes me a racist? I did not say she was repulsive I said she was vulgar.
You did not tell me what I am allowed to do on this site.
Why don't you get me kicked off for being a freeper.
- YOu've got memory problems. Look at your post at R338 where you made your racist comment. Also stop asking me what you're allowed to say. I'm merely pointing out your total BS. The rest is up to you.
- 421/425...you're the troll, bitch. Shut up!!!
Bully. This show is shit AND racist. End Of.
- R428 if you want to revel in being the doofus that sides with an obvious bullshit artist then go for it. But more likely you're that same lying idiot at R426
Gosh, all you had to do was troll test 428 but you accused him anyway.
I have reviewed your posts and you are certainly vested in this show. Do you realize it is only a TV show? I suspect you are filled with self hatred. "lying idiot, doofus, ugly troll"
- I'm not losing sleep over the opinion of a lying, racist troll R431. Why don't you go back to watching your one TV channel.
- 430/432...you off your meds?? Honestly, you are completely nuts. Calm down. It's just a tv show. And a bad one at that!
- Is NN over now? I believe it just completed its initial 12 episode airing this week.
It received a season pickup a month after its premiere. Does that mean that they've already filmed more episodes which will air immediately, or will they wait for season 2, maybe mid-2013?
- It received a full season pickup, which means they will air all 22 episodes this season. They are now on holiday hiatus and will return with new episodes in January.
The first episode aired in January will have Matt Bomer guest staring. :) For me, he will be the only reason to watch.
- R435 Matt Bomer will be the only reason I will watch that episode too. The show is overdramatic. Rennell's teeth are a turn off and the character is annoying. Makes me want to head-desk.
In real life Rennell would never score a hot Bomer.
Now DLers, don't go on comparing Bomer's husband Simon Halls with Rennell. Having watched the GLSEN speeches, I concluded Simon Halls is fucking hot in his own charming way.
- I must admit that I have a real thing for the very geekily hot Justin Bartha and his lovely blue eyes.
That a straight actor is happily playing a gay character is beautiful and we should support it.
The episodes are fun and there is at least one really good laugh in them.
Happy to hear they are being renewed.
- The surrogate is just too good to be believed. Kind of makes me want to go out and get a sweet baby mama too.
- I've watched the first 10 minutes of the pilot... Seeing and hearing so many gay cliches almost made me puke... I don't ever care if they'll make the series better after 6 episodes... I just want it cancelled because it doesn't reflect the reality even it's a cheap sitcom
- [quote]That a straight actor is happily playing a gay character is beautiful and we should support it.
Go die in a grease fire, dipshit.
- [quote]In real life Rennell would never score a hot Bomer.
Bomer is not hot. He's not ugly, but he's homely.
- Bomer's stare creeps me out. On pictures he has his eyes so very wide open. On all of them!
The same goes for Chad Allen.
- Stop feeding the stereotype of being queeny and over critical. I admit the first show was a bit rough but its been coming along nicely since then. Turn the channel if you dont like it.
- Amen, r443!
- [quote]That a straight actor is happily playing a gay character is beautiful and we should support it.
Wtf? This is 2012, any actor that actually had an issue playing a character that happens to be gay shouldn't be an actor.
I give Bartha & Rennels props on the fact they do have a believable relationship chemistry. It is that more than anything else that keeps me tuning in and I am glad the show is doing okay in the ratings and that it is likely to get renewed.
- I like the show, but I admit it's not always that funny. But if I think of it as a half hour dramedy instead of a comedy then it works for me.
Does anyone know what they're planning to do about the Halloween episode? It got bumped from its original airing because of Hurricane Sandy. NBC should have just aired it the following week. But now it's just sitting on a shelf totally unaired and won't really make sense if they try to air it later.
- R443/444...you want US to stop feeding gay stereotypes, yet you're praising THIS show?! Oh the irony!!
- It's not that funny but you "like" it?
Look, if the leads weren't physically cute NO ONE here would be praising it at all. It's a spectacularly awful show that facilitates gay stereotypes in a way that is highly offensive.
- I saw the Halloween show on a CBC link. Check out delishows.
- R447/R448 spot on!
- Ryan Murphy is selling Matthew Bomer's body to increase rating for TNN. A visitor in a store posted a photo of Bomer in his roller blades gears........ in tank top and short shorts. They were shooting TNN January episode.
Did Bomer wax his legs again?
- Well, the gay couple is far from attractive in MODERN FAMILY, and it's one top rated shows on TV, so people do tune in to non-attractive gay couples.
- R452...but the crowd praising this crap show are only doing so because of the cute leads. Notice that the same DL queens crap all over Modern Family, and that's BECAUSE the leads are unattractive. Not that MF isn't peddling the same stereotypical crap, mind you.
- R453 At least the couple on TNN get to be in bed together (on nearly every episode) and show some affection. The guys on MF just bicker.
- I don't really care for redheads but Jesse Tyler Ferguson is somewhat attractive.
- R454...so what?? honestly, that's pathetic of you.
look, the couple on TNN are playing husband and wife. It's clear. the promo pics for the show even pictured fancy nancy dressed all in pink, with pink balloons, while Bartha was dressed all in blue. There's no question that this is like the original La cage, where technically they're both 'men', but one is playing the wife and one is playing the husband. It's supremely offensive. Now, if it were Routh and Bartha as a couple and THEY were kissing in bed, that would be one thing. But a chaste kiss in bed on TNN (that isn't even as passionate as kisses on the Brady Bunch) is hardly revolutionary. They've clearly created a pseudo-female "wife" persona for Miss Thing to play, and she's playing it to the hilt. Even MF tries to undercut the stereotyping once in a while (though they're hardly any better).
- They did show the two men in bed kissing on The New Normal. They did it in several episodes. And for A comedy TV show, they've shown them pretty passionately kissing, like in the episode when David proposed to Brian. So that's pretty revolutionary for network TV.
- You have to put it in context. In the soaps, like ATWT when one of the gay characters touched another one on the shoulder, they had a big meeting with CBS to discuss why they couldn't do that.
Cable is way ahead of what network TV has been willing to show with gay couples. The fact that there's a gay person in charge of NBC is probably helping with what's getting through on the show. They're showing it even with the pressure from groups like NOM.
- R457...hon, you keep missing the point. If the show portrays them as husband and wife, then there's nothing remotely revolutionary about it. When a show finally portrays two guys as guys and THEN shows them kissing, get back to me.
And I'll reiterate...you wouldn't be defending this stereotypical garbage if the leads weren't cute.
- I love how you act like we have SO many shows on primetime television that have/had gay couples as lead characters. We are still growing up when it comes to homosexuality in the US. Believe me, I DO get what you're saying because I have my own feelings about the lack of diversity with what gay/lesbian representation we do get on television (as I've stated up thread). But I also understand that we need to have a chance to grow into what we envision. I feel like people are really paying attention, and if a show like TNN fails, it'll be a long time before we get this opportunity again. As long as it is on, I will be watching weekly, but I will not stop pressing for racial diversity with gay visibility becoming more of the television norm.
- I completely agree R460, this show is ground breaking in showing a realish same sex couple to America and it annoys me know a lot gay dudes choose not to see it. It has its faults but the fact it a successful network show is a big deal.
- I understand the argument about Brian being the "wife" and why it might be offensive. But I think having him as a contrast to the David character also helps show the variety of gay men out there. Yes, Brian is more stereotypical, but there are a lot of gay men like him in real life. The show shouldn't have to pretend guys like that don't exist and if people have a problem with seeing a character like that then they're the ones with the problem. Frankly, Brian isn't all that dissimilar to the Justin character on Ugly Betty and I think he was an incredibly important figure to have on TV for the many gay kids out there struggling with accepting themselves. As long as the show isn't putting Brian down for being flamboyant (which it hasn't) then I don't really see what the problem is.
- Since the Brian character is based on Ryan Murphy, then Ryan must be this stereotype some of you look down on.
It's too bad some gay people have decided to adopt the language and the characterization of homophobes. The type who when they see a gay couple ask which one is the wife. What next, you're going to start calling them pansies or decide which ones are the fags ( bottoms?). Just because you're gay doesn't give you immunity. Bigots are bigots.
Ryan Murphy supposedly did address this issue of stereotype where he has David question his beliefs after one of his buddies son wants to wear feminine clothes for Halloween. That's the episode that didn't air due to the hurricane.
- R463...fuck you. You are clearly a moron who did not understand my point about the one character being depicted as the wife. I'm not homophobic, cunt. You, however, are legally retarded.
- I don't have a problem with the roles the characters have in the relationship, the problem is the idea that it is Husband and Wife. They switch. Often. Watch the show. They love each other and show it. Win.
They look like a real gay couple. They look an awful lot like Jeffrey and Ross on Milionaire Decorators (though how amusing was it to see Martyn's butch blond Bounty papertowel looking husband last week?).
- R465...I'm really starting to believe that there are pr people who come here. You being one of them.
This show is not a win. It traffics in highly objectionable anti-gay stereotypes. Period.
- I don't think it's anti-gay. It just has the most exhausting child actress ever. Her out of breath voice and blatant "here is this week's moral" speeches are awful and drag the show down. They should send her off with Nana and keep the hot asshole dad around instead. Even though he can't form a sentence.
- Not a pr person, dahling. I just like the show and the characters.
- Ryan Murphy is overrated and so are his shows. This one is the same. Boring like his characteristics.
Bomer will give him more audience. I'm surprised USA allowed him to do it. This show conflicts with White Collar schedule. Must be Halls convincing them for his little buddy Murphy. Does he let Murphy-Miller borrow Bomer for a little fun, too?
- Struck a never huh, R464. I don't get why you're so against stereotyping considering that was the bitchiest queeniest response I've read in a while.
- Brian = Josh
David = Brent
Hope that clears it up.
- R469 It doean't conflict with White Collar schedule. TNN episode with Bomer will air January 8, and White Collar returns with new episode January 22. So, no conflict.
- Press release for episode 1x12
[quote]01/08/2013 (09:30PM - 10:00PM) (Tuesday) : WHAT TO EX-PECT WHEN YOU’RE EXPECTING – MATT BOMER (‘WHITE COLLAR’) GUEST STARS – Bryan (Andrew Rannells) and David (Justin Bartha) discuss their future and how big they want to grow their family. The conversation leads them back to Expanding Families where Gary (guest-star Michael Hitchcock) reveals that he wants a family of his own but he can’t seem to find the right guy. Bryan and David play matchmakers and set him up with Bryan’s ex-boyfriend and legendary party boy Monty (guest star Matt Bomer, “White Collar”), but their plan leads to more than they bargained for when Monty asks Goldie (Georgia King) to be his surrogate. Elsewhere, Rocky (NeNe Leakes) and Jane (Ellen Barkin) help Shania (Bebe Wood) deal with some mean girls.[/quote]
I don't get it. So two guys who just met each other decide to have a child together? Pretty crazy. Unless there is a huge time jump in the episode.
- OK, people on other boards speculate that there are some flasback scenes in that episode. So, maybe that make sense.
- I'm on winter break in grad school and decided to do a full marathon of "The New Normal" over the past couple of days. I hadn't watched it at all before, so I saw all 11 episodes (to date) in a row.
First off, I find it amusing that the first few posts here were all about "the first four episodes of a sitcom are weak; give it time to get its sea legs." Well, we're now nearly halfway through the season, and it seems clear the writers *still* don't know what the fuck they're doing. There is no logical reason for ANY of the characters, save for David & Brian, to be there. What gay couple hangs out with not only the surrogate for their baby, but also their *family*? Why the fuck is Nana even there to begin with? Why is she living at a *hotel*, of all places? Why is Goldie's ex there, and what the fuck is he even *doing*? (he hasn't even been *on* most episodes) Barkin and Nene just seem to float in and out, with no grounding to the plot.
The last episode was perhaps the most confusing, and comes *straight* out of the standard Ryan Murphy "invent a plot arc and quickly abandon it" department. All of a sudden we're supposed to buy that Brian is a borderline lush, with NO introduction of this story in earlier episodes? He can polish off an entire bottle of wine at dinner, but somehow restrained himself when he and Nana went to the holiday party? He was and also wasn't supposed to be drunk when he was pulled over at the DUI checkpoint?? Were they actually arrested?? Why didn't they even *show* what happened after Nana got out of the car and started hitting the cop with a purse containing a loaded *gun*? (which seems particularly offensive given the Newtown tragedy, but I'll let it pass since I assume the episode aired before it happened) And why on earth would these Ohio Bumfucke people even stay in the baby's life after its born? It's not like Goldie is the bio mom.
In the episode beforehand, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of them finding out the baby's sex ... and then there *was* no shoe to drop. Apparently the whole point was to even further reinforce the polarizing "David is the football-loving dude, Brian is the nelly queen who doesn't know the difference between a 'huddle' and 'cuddle'" bullshit. Yes, Ryan, WE GET IT. We got it when David dressed up as a quarterback for Halloween. David is the DUDE. Brian is Miss Thang.
That said, the one thing I do like about the show is that Justin Bartha and Andrew Rannells are entirely believable as a couple, and also show affection for each other in nearly every episode (unlike, say, "Modern Family," as already pointed out). It's a credit to Rannells that he makes what would normally be a painful and irritating cliche of a character into someone likable. Even drunk, borderline-bitchy Brian making crude jokes about being a pillow-biter somehow worked.
So ... the show still appears to be a directionless train wreck, but at least the conductors are cute.
- I agree with the most of the R475 post with one exception: no matter how much Andrew Rannels tries to make Bryan likable, I still think this character is a painfull and irritating cliche. Him and Shania are incredibly annoying. Nene Leakes character would also be annoying, if I was able to think about her as a character. But her acting is so bad, that usually I'm not even able to notice her character beyond that.
I'm done with the show. I'm only waiting for the Bomer's episode (I would watch him in anything), and after that I'm done.
- It all comes down to the fact that Bryan is Ryan Murphy's alter ego and Ryan apparently was/is a queeny gay guy who screwed around with football loving boys (at least according to one interview) when he was growing up. He grew up to be a wealthy writer, producer who now at wishes to have a child with his husband. That's the story he wants to tell and whether someone thinks he's a cliche or not is irrelevant to him as it's his story.
It's fair to want to see other types of stories about gay men out there but it'll probably have to come from someone else who lived this 'non cliche' life. But cliches exist for a reason and usually because there's some truth behind them.
- The "queen with the hot straight-acting boyfriend" cliche rubs a lot of gay men the wrong way not because it's based on truth but because it's wish fulfillment rooted in self-loathing. Very much similar to the shows and movies written by Jewish male writers where the Jewish leading man is married to or only dates WASP women. "Partners" managed to cover both bases by having Michael Urie be boyfriends with Brandon Routh. In real life Max Mutchnik is partnered with a handsome, successful Jewish lawyer; but for his alter-ego, he paired himself off with Clark Kent.
In gay relationships, as far as masculinity is concerned, water tends to find its own level. These butch/femme onscreen pairings (with the more attractive masculine partner always being played by a straight actor) says a lot about how much further we need to go.
It's sad that the most realistic, life-affirming and non-self-loathing depiction of a gay couple that I have seen remains Mr. Rat and Mr. Mole.
- r478, on TV shows and movies contrast (butch vs. femme / rich vs. poor / fat vs. thin / young vs. old / employed vs. unemployed / jock or hot model vs. nerd or coach potato / good vs. evil / science vs. religion or faith / white vs. black / Jew vs. Christian / etc.) equals conflicts which equals drama or hilarity ensues entertainment.
This is the basic foundation of any entertainment (including literature).
Plus comedy shows usually don't make much sense or have plot or character continuity (see: Golden Girls inconstency threads as an example) because that goes in the way of a lot of hilarity ensues situations and punchline jokes.
- I figured it was only a matter of time before some idiot came up with R479's reasoning.
- I would like to see a show that had characters that were about something and they just happened to be gay rather than a show about being gay.
His comment was not as bitchie and queenie as yours.
- As long as the showrunners are eldergays like Murphy and Mutchnik, we are going to be stuck with shows like this where being gay is the most important thing about the characters. This will change once a new generation replaces them.
- Jeez, what a drama thread. The show has gotten much better.
- R484 No, it hasn't.
- Preview of the Bomer episode. Surprise surprise, Murphy got his shirt off.
- Exposure of a hottie's pectorals is tantamount to the sexual exploitation of women in strip clubs. It is misogyny.
This is what datalounge looks like, and it's killing us!
- Coming off a series low from its January 22 show, The New Normal (1.1/3) was also down 8% from last week. That’s also a new series low for the Ryan Murphy produced comedy.
- This show is a cliched, stereotypical, offensive piece of shit.
- That's too bad. it was a funny episode last night. With those ratings it may get cancelled or not get renewed.
- [quote]That's too bad. it was a funny episode last night. With those ratings it may get cancelled or not get renewed.
Nope. They get the demographic. That's all that matters. The show is here to stay. Get over it.
- [quote]As long as the showrunners are eldergays like Murphy and Mutchnik, we are going to be stuck with shows like this where being gay is the most important thing about the characters. This will change once a new generation replaces them.
I feel the same way. I hope this show does well and stays on the air but I do think it will take younger showrunners to give shows with main characters who are gay but the show doesn't focus on their struggles related to being gay.
It is being done. Max on Happy Endings and Nolan on Revenge are gay/bi characters whose sexuality is never treated as an issue, they are just characters in the story.
- The ratings are not good. In addition, the numbers indicate that people are switching the channel during that half-hour (Go On did 1.2 and Dateline did 1.3).
NBC ordered something like 10 different comedy pilots this month, they are looking to replace it.
- The latest Renew/Cancel index from TVByNumbers doesn't look good. It's 0.77, which is the lowest of all NBC shows. There is only one show with lower index, Animal Practice, but it's cancellation was already announced.
Interesting that TVByNumbers still keeps TNN in the "toss up between renewal or cancellation by May, 2013" category instead of likely to be canceled, but if ratings will continue to go down, I doubt it will stay there any longer.
- [quote]Coming off a series low from its January 22 show, The New Normal (1.1/3) was also down 8% from last week. That’s also a new series low for the Ryan Murphy produced comedy.
That's not good at all. The ratings keep getting worse and worse. If the ratings flop again next week, I doubt it will be renewed.
- Why would anyone want this show to survive. Last night's breast feeding episode was not funny.
- Maybe they can spin off Ellen Barkin and John Stamos onto their own show.
- I never realized what a bad actress Ellen Barkin was until I watched this show.
- [quote]Maybe they can spin off Ellen Barkin and John Stamos onto their own show.
Such a show would be a HUGE success.
I stopped watching this week before it was over. The idea of John Stamos fucking that cadaver Ellen Barkin was too much. It was necrophilia.
And the Milk Shake bit in the restaurant was just too stupid.
I think that's it for me . . .
- [quote]I never realized what a bad actress Ellen Barkin was until I watched this show.
She definitely overacts in this show. I don't think she is good in comedies.
- Pairing Ellen Barkin with Nene Leaks provides perfect balance: They book overact while delivering a wooden line reading.
- I've been a defender of this show and still like it, but this week's was a low point. Ellen Barkin is no Carol O'Connor and Brian can't keep learning the same lesson every week.
- I couldn't watch last night. Breastfeeding. Please.
- I'm all for a show that is about gays, but this one just plays up stereotypes, and not only that, it simply isn't funny.
They should just pull it.
- Here's what Vulture.com has to say about its chances for renewal:
Its ratings are worse than lead-in Go On, but here's one thing it has going for it: a loyal core audience. TNN jumps by more than 40 percent when DVR replay gets figured in, a much greater bump than Go On or many other comedies see. Perhaps it moves to 9 p.m. after The Voice as NBC seeks to create a very young-skewing Tuesday next fall. Or NBC could also decide the show is never going to be a broad hit and cuts bait sooner rather than later. This one's a tough call.
- Tuesday's show hit a new series low in the ratings, a week after it established a series low. Now a good trend line.
- I saw a five minute flyby segment while channel surfing. Some guy crying coz his mommy didn't breastfeed him and now he can't breastfeed his own baby. If he truly feels this way he is too stupid to be a parent. I know it's the in thing to portray people as complete imbeciles on TV. But that's not enough reason for me to actually watch it.
- R506 Its ratings for that episode are probably low because of the subject matter, breastfeeding. I could only get through a couple of minutes.
- It has nothing to do with the subject matter. Less and less people are watching each week. That's the bottom line. 1.1 is basic cable ratings.
- The ratings have a lot to do with the lead in show. When The Voice was the lead in at an avg of 4.0 to 5.0 ratings, Go On was doing better in the ratings and so was The New Normal.
Now that the Betty White show Off Their Rocker which averages about 1.5 to 1.7 is the lead they've both dropped in ratings. Go On's ratings are almost as low as TNN.
TNN is in definite trouble with those ratings. It's not on next week due to Smash and NBC hasn't revealed their schedule for the week after. I can see them trying to change things up.
- Fewer and fewer people, dear. Not less and less.
The Grammar Troll
- It's trying too hard. And I can't stand Nene.
- I guess gay fathers think about the breastfeeding issue. I have friends with babies but never thought to ask about it. An entire generation of babies from about 1965 through the late 80's weren't breastfed as women really entered the workforce en masse and hadn't figured out how to manage it. None of my three sibs were beyond the first months.
Can I address the elephant in the room and suggest someone fire whoever is doing Stamos's face? Geez, how bad must you be to make Stamos look like Groucho Marx?
- This last episode was a lowpoint.
- [quote] This will change once a new generation replaces them.
Not if the new generation is posting on this thread.
It might change, actually, but it won't get better. People who hate everything don't product anything great.
- OK, I'm a huge defender of this show, and even I couldn't get through that breastfeeding ep.
- So has this shit been cancelled yet?
- R513, no one is noticing Stamos' makeup because the real elephant in the room is Ellen Barkin's hideous hair-slaughter.
- R517 It's been renewed for the whole 1st season some time ago. We will not find out if it will be renewed for the second season or not before May.
- TV By The Numbers now has TNN as "certain to be canceled."
- R520 I can't say I'm surprised. The show deserves to be canceled. The writing is just awful.
You know what annoys me the most? That people will probably say that nobody wanted to watch the show, because it was about gay couple. When the truth is that nobody wanted to watch, because writing was horrible. So, instead of doing something good, the show will probably do more damage. Ehh.
- The show may get cancelled but I think it's incredibly stupid to say the show did some damage. What exactly did it damage? It portrayed two wealthy gay men who wants a baby and showed them as no different than any other heterosexual couple who wants one.
- The two "Mormon" boys both get NBC sitcoms in the same season and both get canceled. What are the odds?
- It will make damage if it will make people say that nobody wants to watch gays on TV. Because some people will try to explain its cancellation this way. When actually it will not be the real reason.
BTW I think it's incredibly stupid that people can't discuss in civilised manner. But it's DL, what do I expect?
- Two failed "gay" network shows in one season (TNN and Partners) might make networks reluctant to pick up some of the gay-themed pilots in production for next season. One stars Sean Hayes as a gay dad for NBC, and "The McCartheys" on CBS is about the gay son in a close-knit Irish family (Jacki Weaver is cast as the mom).
However it's possible that the over-the-top gay humor from the season's failed new series will push the networks to make more sober, realistic gay characters in these new pilots.
- I do think it is unfortunate R524 that both shows that premiered with lead gay characters, Partners and New Normal and likely the season will end with both getting cancelled.
Of course neither one is that great of a show (especially Partners sucked), but still it looks bad when you are thinking about the precedent of launching shows with lead gay characters.
- Exactly R525 and R526 Cancelling of both shows could provide an easy excuse for networks to not pick up more "gay" shows, because supposedly people don't want to watch them. But at least in TNN case (I didn't follow Partners ratings closely) it's not true. The show started rather strong (at least for NBC show) and then it lost about 60% viewers to this day (and probably the same in demo). It is not because people don't want to watch shows with gay characters, because if that was the case, they wouldn't start watching at all. But they did and then abandoned the show when it didn't deliver.
So that's where potential damage is. The bad writing could be the reason why networks will find a false excuse to not create more shows with gay characters, especially main characters.
- I must be in the minority, but I enjoy TNN, I'd be surprised if they didn't at least consider giving it a second season based on all the other crap programing out there.
Then again, it's an RM show, which basically sets it up for an imminent deterioration in writing, regardless of any of its redeeming qualities.
- The shows ratings went down simply because they no longer had The Voice as a lead in. Go On ratings went down just as dramatically, and even more percentage wise than TNN. There will be 5 episodes that will come on after the Voice returns in March and NBC will probably decide after then what they'll do with the show.
NBC ratings across the board are abysmal and it's not only their gay shows that are failing so they'll be looking at multiple reasons why this is happening.
- R528 They don't base their decision about shows renewal on quality or lack of it. It's all about ratings. And TNN ratings are bad, steadily going down week after week.
- R529 Nope, the show's ratings were going down since the beginning. When they lost lead-in they just started going down even faster.
Right now TNN has the second lowest demo of all NBC shows (not counting the already canceled shows).
- R531 Like any new show it had its highest ratings at its premier and in the beginning. That's true for any new show including shows like GO ON which started off with a 3.3 rating and eventually went to a little over 2.0 when the show settled in to the time slot. TNN was having a rating hovering between 1.7 to 1.9 at that time. Both shows had pretty much stabilized in their ratings.
The ratings since they returned after Christmas, without the Voice as a lead in have been 1.2 for Go On and 1.1 for TNN. So without the Voice as a lead, is when both shows significantly dropped and got into the category of shows likely to be cancelled.
It's hard to compare lowest demo considering the fact that TNN has not aired for the past 2 weeks and it's not a hell of a lot of significance considering NBC's shows like Guy With Kids and Whitney picked up at most a 1.3 during those times. That's not a hell of a lot to brag about.
- I share everyone's concerns that, in spite of the fact that it IS the writing (and somewhat the character development) of the show that makes it suck donkey balls, that the networks will look at it as " gay demographic" thing and be hesitant to greenlight future gay-themed shows. In 2013 that is frustrating, to say the least. Will and Grace had its detractors but it was a solid sitcom hit for years. I thought (actually most people probably thought) it would blast the doors open to future gay themed shows with mass audience appeal. Unfortunately, these mincing prisspots without a funny line to say (Jack McFarland might have been a stereotype in many/most ways but he had delicious lines to deliver AND great comic timing) simply aren't funny. The actors, as talented as they may be, cannot overcome the bad scripts, the bad story lines, the bad direction. Partners was dreadful, too.
- I watched the first two episodes of TNN and found they were pretty bad. I wanted to give the show a fair shot so I watched a couple more episodes later in the season, hoping it would get better. It did not.
The only thing that might keep TNN from being cancelled is that NBC has nothing else. New and sophomore comedies like Guys WIth Kids and Whitney were cancelled. Others like 30 Rock and The Office have ended or are ending this season. They're desperately trying to re-tool Up All Night to salvage the show but it's unclear whether the changes will help.
I don't know what's on NBC's plate for next season, but unless they have a slew of new comedies in the works, it's possible TNN could just barely survive.
- NBC has ordered 18 comedy pilots for next season.
I'm not kidding.
- Not every pilot gets picked up for a full season, so the question is how many of those pilots will NBC like enough to give a series order. Personally I'd think it's better try a new show than stick with TNN.
- There were some pretty funny moments in tonight's episode, despite the doggie's demise.
- [quote]The two "Mormon" boys both get NBC sitcoms in the same season and both get canceled. What are the odds?
"1600 Penn" should get canceled. It's surely one of the worst shows to make it to air in years.
I was napping with the TV on and awoke for the last 10 minutes. The gay guy that thinks he can act in confession with the priest made me ill.
The acting is bad, the script is bad, KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT........PLEASE
- At least there was male eye candy in last night's episode; not from the two gay guys but from the humpy school principal and Goldie's ex-husband.
- New series low (1.0), definitely getting shitcanned in May.
- I want a Harvey Milkbone
- Aw, what a shame. I really like the show.
- R540 The principal was played by Peter Porte.
- R541 Yep. It's a gonner.
Ellen Barkin's career has been a flop for the last 15 years.
- The ratings could go back up when "The Voice" returns.
- I thought the doggie storyline actually worked. What was over the top was the Maggie Smith thing. That would never happen.
- I know, R547! All I could think of during those scenes was "And where in the hell did she get those costumes?!". That kid is really starting to grate.
- I loved the moment where the girl switched to impersonating Taylor Swift.
- Who was the actor who played Goldie's husband?
- [quote]The ratings could go back up when "The Voice" returns.
Sweetie, face reality - it's over.
- I think it has a second season in its future.
- Of course you do.
- The New Normal has become one of the anti-fan focal points of the current season among our commenters. Certainly some is driven by the content of the show, and some is driven by the Retentionista tendencies of many of our commenters.
The content of the show is irrelevant to the Cancellation Bear, and he views the retentionistas as the equivalent of TV prediction flat earthers.
Through 11 weeks, The New Normal ratings average was almost exactly that of all NBC scripted shows, and it has not fallen more than one tenth below the NBC scripted show average for any given week. As much as the retentionistas will rage, networks do not cancel new shows with average ratings.
- a) learn how to post a link
b) that article is over two months old before the ratings cratered
c) the latest predictions have marked it as "Certain to be canceled"
d) you're a dumbass
- Oh, you're right, you're the king of the anonymous board.
r556 sounds like Ellen Barkin's character. All bark, some sense and a total bitch.
- It will probably get cancelled
That doesn't negate the fact that some of the comments about this show reached the highest level of hysteria & ridiculousness with people looking at it with magnifying glasses for any signs of e f f e m i n a c y.
As for the last episode, killing off Harvey Milkbone will probably cost even more viewers.
A sample of the facebook comments: "What is wrong with the writers of this show. How could you possibly kill an innocent Berner. I own two Berners and loved to see a Berner in a sit-com. You notice part of that word--com--meaning comedy. It was not a comedy. It was a tragedy! I will never watch this show again!!!!"
- TNN was adjusted down, ratings dipped to 0.9.
- R559 Looks like Ellen Barkin and NeNe will have to look for a new shitty gig to work on.
- ha ha ha Elen Barkin is a cunt
- I don't know how you can trust something that says New Normal is "CERTAIN TO BE CANCELED" and yet has Smash and Up All Night as only "LIKELY to be canceled."
- All 3 of them are toast, R562. I don't think it'll even take until May.
- R558 You realize no dog was killed during the filming of this episode, don't you?
- He was killed by the stampede of viewers running away from this show.
- R564 Yes i'm aware. That wasn't my comment but a comment from the viewer. Some people wanted to organize a boycott. They must not realize there's hardly any viewers left.
Also those of you cheering this show losing viewers do realize that this will be seen as a victory for groups like Million moms. There's still quite a few homophobic rants on this show.
- I find it unfortunate when (fluff) entertainment becomes this big (gay) rights issue and the future of the (gay) right issue depends on the show being kept on air.
When have entertainment shows become such a vital part in the gay rights battle that they have to not just educate but crush the homophobic opposition?
- [quote] When have entertainment shows become such a vital part in the gay rights battle that they have to not just educate but crush the homophobic opposition?
When my ego says so.
- R567 It's not so much the future of gay rights and more the future of seeing more gay themed shows on network television. Viewers have shown they'll accept gay characters in shows like Modern Family & Glee, as long as they're not the main stars of the show.
The New Normal was probably the first attempt by a network to have a show where the leads are gay character. With it failing, the networks which is all about money & ratings, may hesitate to do another show with gays as leads.
This was a show that was also specifically targeted because it showed a gay couple as normal and as parents which is a red hot button topic for groups that are against gay adoption and parenting. So you can't keep politics out of it.
- [quote]The New Normal was probably the first attempt by a network to have a show where the leads are gay character.
- Come on R570 I know you're not referring to The Ellen Show which was sold to the networks as a story about a single straight woman.
Her talk show is groundbreaking for daytime television. But I was referring to Prime Time night time television shows drama or comedies.
Will & Grace doesn't count because of the straight lead of Debra Messing who was more of the star of that show.
- R571 just stop right now. Just stop.
I'm embarrassed for both of us.
- Elephants in the room:
Ryan Murphy ISN't "all that."
THe vast majority of the viewing people isn't gay. Perhaps it would be great for us if they were. In the meantime: reality check.
Nene sucks donkey balls
I stopped watching 'cause the kid's name, "Shania" is like chalk on a blackboard. I realize that's a pretty stupid reason; actually was just one of money.
I was super excited about this show, but the writing is far too postured and posturing, mannered, frenetic.
To the poster who mentioned both boys from Book of Mormon (probably) having shows cancelled in one year: not their fault; they don't write the shows, but star quality on stage also doesn't automatically translate to tv. Josh Gads is hard to look at; Rannells hard to listen to. on the small screen. IMHO.
To the poster who said Barkin sucks at comedy: AGREE.
Finally, "gay" does not automatically equal "good entertainment."
That is all.
- R573 has made his sermon from the mount, so that is THAT! He will accept no more discussion on the matter.
- The last episode with the baby shower was so condescending. We are too rich for baby gifts. We must donate to the poor. We're so much better than all the other rich people who gave us silly gifts.
Do they not remember that the whole series started with Brian salivating over a cute baby outfit?
- Ellen Barkin is more or less of this show. Even John Stamos has more screen time...
- [quote]Nene sucks donkey balls
Nene is no actress, I grant you that, but I find her and the little girl the best parts of this lifeless, laugh-free show. Ellen Barkin's ridiculous character exists solely to win her a comedy supporting actress Emmy (a la Jane Lynch in "Glee"), the young blond mom is about as interesting as wallpaper, and the gay couple is so dull I'm surprised Bartha and Rannells don't slow down production due to falling asleep mid-dialogue.
I don't think Middle America won't watch a show with gays as the leads, they just won't watch a BORING show with gays as the leads. (And no, that doesn't mean the gays have to be clowns a la Jack McFarland to be interesting either.)
- If a show is so boring to you DONT WATCH IT.
- How low can it go?
TNN hits 0.7!
- R579 That's just embarassing. I'm surprised Nothing But Crap (NBC) is even bothering to air the remaining episodes.
- Who is the biological father of the baby Brian and David are expecting?
- They both are.
- How is that possible, r382?!
- I loved the message of the show but it was just not very entertaining. The Ellen Barkin character was such a turnoff.
- Speaking for myself, I missed last night's episode and didn't even know there was new one. I can't keep track of the way my fave shows are scheduled. They're off for weeks, then come back for a week, then disappear for a couple of weeks. Same with Nashville.
- [quote]What's Justin Bartha's story? I confess I find him completely adorkable. I assume he claims to be straight but damn he plays gay well. He's got the gay voice and liquid body language down perfectly.
You do have to wonder if that's just the real them coming out as it were. Another example of this I thought was Paul Rudd in The Object of My Affection. Perfect gay voice and mannerisms, but not that far removed from how you see him otherwise.
I thought Justin was smoking in The Hangover (didn't like it enough to see the sequel) and totally outshone Cooper who was supposed to be the good looking one. He also reminded me of Paul Rudd there. Since I've saw more of him I love his smug grin which says "I need dick up my ass to wipe it off".
- The TV listing service I use showed that last night was supposed to be a repeat, but my cable on-screen listing showed it was new, so fortunately I was able to watch it. Since there probably won't be too many more episodes, I want to catch them all.
- NBC shuffled their schedule at the last week and I guess didn't bother to update cable providers. According to the TVBTN link, many people thought that repeats were being shown that night.
It's like NBC is in the depressive stage of bipolar disorder. They've just given up.
- I wonder how Justin Bartha justifies being in "The Hangover" when the word "f%gg#t" is used a thousand times in it?
- Justin Bartha has to say he's straight because TV audiences cannot take a gay couple played on TV by 2 gay actors. That's why the fat guy in Modern Family is being played by a straight guy and in Partners, they paired Michael Urie with Superman.
- I'm curious R590 Why can't they both be gay?
- R591 Maybe because it would be too real for some people? I don't know, I'm curious as well.
- John Benjamin Hickey and Christopher Seiber were both openly gay actors playing a gay couple on their ABC show whose name escapes me.
- And look how long it last, r593.
- R594 All the shows with a gay & straight actor don't last either. Remember Partners? I think the fact the show is gay centric is probably more important than the sexuality of the actors. A lot of viewers of Modern Family think Eric Stonestreet is really gay.
Also look how Matt Bomer's show hasn't gone down in the ratings since he came out. But he was unable to boost the popularity of the New Normal when he was a guest star playing a gay man.
- Unfortunately there seems to be a gay fatigue by the general TV viewing audience where 'the gays' are only entertaining in small doses. Also the general TV viewing audience may be turned off by all the gay rights / gay tolerance enducational messages.
Then of course there are members of the gay community who rip gay visibility to shreds, because they insist some of it reflects bad on them personally.
- It's not 'gay fatigue.' If the show were any good it would be successful.
One of the problems is that the gay couple in New normal are not middle class, and integrated into a social millieu with straight couple friends.
- [quote]The New Normal was probably the first attempt by a network to have a show where the leads are gay character.
Even if you dismiss - as you did - Ellen and W&G, there were other unsuccessful attempts before TNN.
John Goodman in Normal, Ohio
- For every gay viewer of one of these shows, there are 10-15 straight viewers. Any show about gay men won't survive unless it's accepted by straight people. Straight people don't want to watch shows about gay people as the focus of the story, only gay people as co-stars with, or sidekicks of, straight people. All the shows with a primary gay focus were failures.
- R585, there was an episode of Nashville on Wednesday, March 20, that was new to me, but which had actually run on Feb. 27. I don't know how I missed it, but I was able to watch it on abc.go.com.
It was called "Dear Brother." Here it is on imdb.com.