I'm in a movie group that's about a dozen gay guys, mostly in their 30s. It's an offshoot of a bigger group we all left because of stupid drama.
We organize the group via an ongoing group message on Facebook. We all pretty much agree on the movies we want to see, and most discussion boils down to when an where we're seeing it.
We have one member who, as he always says, is old enough to be our father. I liked him at first, because we share similar taste in movies and he's recommended a lot of pre-70s movies to me that I've enjoyed.
Lately, though, he's turned into a real pain in the ass. He's become negative about almost everything, and when we went out last night, he ended up giving us all a lecture about how none of us need smartphones.
Everyone else is ready to get rid of him. I want to give him another chance because I don't think he realizes how he's coming across. But I also think he's going to freak out when I bring up the topic.
Punch and delete from your smartphone.
Take him out for a beer and just ask him what's up.
[quote]It's an offshoot of a bigger group we all left because of stupid drama.
And yet you want to dump a member because he bitched at you for texting on your iPhones instead of engaging in conversation.
Invite another eldergay into the group, and give the two of them the chance to sit together and bitch about kids today.
That way, younguns won't have to listen to the bitching, and the two eldergays will have made a friend. And with two eldergays present, you'll learn about film. Everybody wins!
[quote]And yet you want to dump a member because he bitched at you for texting on your iPhones instead of engaging in conversation.
I don't think you get it. He's bringing drama to the table here. He's started to piss people off, so they want to get rid of him.
R2, thanks for trying, but he's not the type to respond to something like that.
[quote]He's bringing drama to the table here. He's started to piss people off, so they want to get rid of him.
Tell him that, and tell him to quit the stupid bit about being old enough to be your father.
R3's point really zipped right past you, OP.
You've got bigger problems than a peevish eldergay on your hands.
That's how a lot people act when they get old. Try not letting him get to you. Change the subject when he says things that bother you. He'll get the message. At his age he probably doesn't see the need for a smart phone, but he's still trying to get a rise out of you. Don't give it to him. I have a 68 year old grandfather who acts the same way. It takes time but you CAN teach and old dog new tricks.
For Christ's sake, suck the man's dick for him already.
It's called getting older. Many people turn into pissy cranks as they age.
It's going to change over time, the attitude about technology that is.
I'm of the 'advanced' age of 47 and been around technology since I was a kid, from electronics and radio to big iron computers and now smartphones that have more capacity than some of that big iron.
And I can see the next wave coming on the horizon.
No, R7, you really don't get it. The group we left had all sorts of stupid in-fighting and rivalries. He is bringing this same energy back to a group that has zero interest in it.
Also, we weren't "texting on your iPhones instead of engaging in conversation." One of the guys is looking to get a new phone and asked if anyone had that new Samsung phone. One of the other guys did, he pulled it out, and they chatted a little bit about it.
It was the definition of no big deal, but the old guy took the opportunity to start ranting about how no one needs a smartphone. It got insulting, and it became clear the guy had very little idea what you could actually do with a phone today.
All of that said, I do feel bad for the old guy. I have a gut feeling he'll react badly to anything I say to him, but I also don't just want to abandon him.
Perhaps he's bored with pissy young queens who think they're just regular guys but are... pissy young queens. You will probably be like him in a few years OP.
[quote]One of the guys is looking to get a new phone and asked if anyone had that new Samsung phone. One of the other guys did, he pulled it out, and they chatted a little bit about it. It was the definition of no big deal
No, it was the definition of mindless yammering. "Ohmigod you have the new Galaxy S III? So cool! You have Grindr installed on it, I assume?" Blah blah blah. And yet you can't figure out why an intelligent man into indie film would find such a conversation to be trivial?
Sent from my iPhone
Where are you, OP? If we're in the same town, just kick him out and I'll gladly replace him. I'd love to be part of a gay men's movie group.
[quote]No, it was the definition of mindless yammering. "Ohmigod you have the new Galaxy S III? So cool! You have Grindr installed on it, I assume?" Blah blah blah.
No one was using their phones. The guy who owned the Samsung is a social media director and uses the thing all day long for work. We're all professionals in our 30s, not mindless, yapping kids.
Sounds like he's possibly suffering from depression, or some other personal problem you're unaware of.
Might want to talk to him about it, in as non-confrontational a way as possible.
He's actually right, no one needs "smartphones."
Groups are boring, though.
OP, it's obvious the respondents who are bitches to you are probably eldergays themselves who takes things way too personally. You need to first inform your 30 something group members that you are gonna talk to the old guy.
THEN you talk to him, whatever happens next is on HIM, not you or anyone else. If he overeacts and brings drama to the convo then you know it is him and not you, and that you tried.
Then you MOVE ON!
Your story is boring and you should feel bad.
Kick him in the vagina bone.
Welcome to "Dumpsville," population: YOU
Just TELL him what people are saying and that if he doesn't act nicer, he might get kicked out because he's killing the buzz. If this offends him, he'll stop coming voluntarily. If he wants to make an effort to get along, he will. He might be one of those people with annoying tendencies to show their "love" by instigating stupid fights - "Look, we love each other so much and we're having so much fun that we're fighting! I would never fight with someone I didn't care about." I had a friend that used to insult me all the time, and HIS friend said "He only does that because he likes you" and I told him "If you don't stop this, we're not hanging out anymore." He stopped.
I bet he was delusional and thought you were getting together to discuss movies, not Smartphones.
You might want to explain to him that it's important for him not to have a differing opinion because that brings "negative energy" into the group.
OP: Unfortunately, the solution to your problem--telling this guy that he's getting on everyone's nerves--will likely create another problem, because he might get defensive, angry, and abusive.
I'd avoid a personal encounter. Maybe an email? It would at least give him a chance to think it over before he replies. Tell him that he has to stop lecturing and haranguing the others and just hang out. Make it clear that his future with your moviegoing group hangs in the balance.
It's probably not an age issue, anyway. Some people, men and women and gay and straight, are difficult, period.
"The guy who owned the Samsung is a social media director and uses the thing all day long for work. We're all professionals in our 30s, not mindless, yapping kids."
And yet, the group is for watching movies, not for feeling superior over 'yapping kids' because you're all 'professionals'.
It's a group that came together through facebook? Just drop contact if it's really bothering you.
One of the first pieces of advice given to old depressed people on here is "Join a group, make new friends". OP demonstrates how that is not always a good idea.
[quote]It's going to change over time, the attitude about technology that is. I'm of the 'advanced' age of 47 and been around technology since I was a kid, from electronics and radio to big iron computers and now smartphones that have more capacity than some of that big iron.
And I can see the next wave coming on the horizon.
Lucifer, as one whose posts I've found succinct, you have disappointed me. I too have been around technology since i was a kid, and still am, working in IT since 1983.
The BIG wave right now is the "Cloud." Wow. It's exactly what we had in 1983 - client/server - without the wires but with wireless convenience on smaller devices that have no real creative software and with huge profits for the industry. That's why OP thinks he "needs" one. Obviously, to get laid. But folks got laid in the era of telephones they dialed with a pencil.
Personally, I do fine with my desktop and laptop with the software that makes the programs that OP uses on his "smartphone." I own a simple cell phone.
It does sound like this older man is cock blocking and annoying the 30-somethings in their "movie group." I'm sure OP is interested in cinema, and I'm also sure he wants to get to know some of his movie group partners more intimately. So, OP why not just keep this ancient guy as a friend, and get on with seducing your age-mates?
OP, is it okay to have a dissenting opinion about the movies you discuss, or does everyone have to agree whether they liked the film, didn't like it, etc?
I think some of the people in this thread have no concept of a casual get-together with friends.
As I said, we're mostly in our 30s. We all have jobs, and many of us need a smartphone for work. There is the social media director, a few media people, a few political wonks and a couple other random people. It's not about getting laid. Half the guys are couples.
The old guy - I'll call him Clint to make this easy - basically glommed onto our group. He refuses to join Facebook, so he's not part of any planning. He also requires one of us to call him and tell him whenever we've made plans. That job has become mine because, as I said, I sort of liked Clint - at first. (Also, while Clint has email, he refuses to answer email, and insists I call him on the phone.)
Our movie night is usually Wednesday, and it starts with a happy hour at a pub near the theater. It's not a sit-down, formal dinner, but a much more loose, informal thing. Sometimes there are 10 of us all crowded around a table, sometimes only three or four people show up, and a few more meet up at the theater. It varies, but the point is, it's all very informal.
Wednesday, Clint basically stopped the entire conversation to lecture everyone about how stupid he thinks smartphones are. But the last movie we went to, he was rude to the bartender. The time before that, it was something else. He's bringing this bitchy, angry energy to what is supposed to be just a fun night out.
After Wednesday night, several other guys in the group said we should just cut him out completely. Stop calling him, stop inviting him, and just move on.
Because I actually feel a bit bad for Clint, I want to figure out a way to give him a second chance, which is why I started this thread. I should have known I'd just get more lectures from Clint's peers.
OP, I agree with your friends. You need to cut him loose before they get so annoyed they want to kick you out too. He's trying to insinuate himself into a crowd that he doesn't really belong in. It's not a fit. Let him find some other old cranks to go to the movies with. You shouldn't have to babysit him.
OP, you're 29th post should have been your first. Now that I can see the entire situation more clearly, I have to say that I agree with r30. The man sounds like an incredible divo. Since the purpose of the group is casual, fun meeting for a shared interest, Clint's behavior indicates he is way too "high maintenance" for such a loosely connected group. Btw, before anyone can ask, I'm 56.
Thanks, R31. I'm letting DL's eldercranks get to me. I have to remember that some people here have no friends, no careers and no social lives and are threatened by those who do.
I'm turning 57 in a month, and own an iPhone, an iPad, an Android, a massively fast PC, and a gamer laptop. I much prefer communicating by email and Facebook to the telephone UNLESS it's something emotional, in which case electronic media will fuck it all up because one cannot communicate nuance and heart very well in such a sterile medium.
I'm not big on the current pop music scene with a very few exceptions, but neither are most of my friends, who range in age from their 40s to their early 20s.
Clint sounds depressed, especially if he is being rude to waiters and doesn't try to fit into your conversations. I would, with one or two friends from the group, take him out for a drink and compassionately ask him how he's doing because he has seemed a little "off" lately and you're worried about him. He will, of course, ask what you mean, in which case you can discuss his recent behaviors, though I would do it as if they were examples of something wrong, not as if they were issues in and of themselves.
If he is not forthcoming and doesn't change his ways, I would invite him to every other outing, then every third, and then only once in a great while. Attrition is a marvelous way of softening the blow to him, and easing any guilt you might feel (though I don't think you deserve to feel any). It is wholly appropriate for you to cut him off from your social gatherings, though I would try to do it gradually so it doesn't become some huge event for any of you.
"That's how a lot people act when they get old."
Actually- no. That is how people of any age can act when they are unhappy. Most people as they grow older mellow and have an easier time dealing with people of all ages. There are exceptions of course.
Too bad that some on this thread, like the OP, think this is a problem associated with older people. Then again, a professor told me in college years ago that the most prejudiced and narrow minded as a rule were the young, because of course they have not learned and grown out of it yet- and she of course said there were exceptions. I was young at the time and realized what she meant. Not so much political conservatism (but could be), but rather a certain inflexibility and certainty that older people grow out of by relaxing. You kind of have too if you want to remain sane.
Anyway, this is another one of those snarky threads. The OP is opening the door for his particular labels and generalities (and prejudices) because of an uphappy older fellow in his click.
R8, I'm only 31, a Stanford grad, have a great job, considered a pretty good catch (both face and body) and live a full life with a large number of friends...and I also do not see the need for a smartphone. Don't have one, don't need one, don't want one.
As usual, Charlie completely and totally misses the point. (Also, has Charlie ever admitted he was wrong about anything here? Ever?)
Also, R35, that's nice for you. But because you don't have a use for a smartphone, no one else should?
That's your point of view R36. There are about 20 polite and civil ways to handle an unhappy person who is moving against the grain of a like thinking social group. I am addressing an assumption of the OP's that I think is entirely false and reflects a prejudice. I quote "an elderly gay problem". His problem has an easy solution that has nothing to do with age- rather, the OP seems kind of clueless, or a provacateur.
I completely disagree R33. If I were Clint I would be highly insulted at being patronized in such a fashion. He might be a jerk, but he's not stupid. "Oh, what's wrong honey, you seem depressed?" Barf. I'd be like, "WTF, no I'm not depressed, I'm just a guy who's lived a long time; I know myself and what I like and what I don't. Get to the fucking point. You don't want me in your group, fine, I'll find another one."
And none of the painfully slow ostracism. Dear God, the guy isn't getting any younger, let him cut his losses and move on. Be a man, OP, rip off the BandAid. Just lay it out for Clint--tell him to shape up or he won't be invited to be in the group anymore.
[quote] There is the social media director, a few media people, a few political wonks and a couple other random people.
You are starting to sound most unappealing, OP.
Nevertheless, if Clint will only accept invitations by phone, then make sure that you are too busy to ring. Send an email with the details and apologise for not being able to ring. Clint will probably start to attend less and he might start to reflect on how much he does or doesn't enjoy the evenings.
It's not an eldergay issue - it's about someone who seems to be demanding and about you always fulfilling his demands.
[quote]Thanks, [R31]. I'm letting DL's eldercranks get to me. I have to remember that some people here have no friends, no careers and no social lives and are threatened by those who do.
Yet posting on DL and going to a film group rather than out with friends. How soon you'll become like Clint.
Is Clint's last name Buchanan Op? If so watch out for a shotgun when you cut him loose.
[quote]You are starting to sound most unappealing, OP.
I'm sorry you don't approve of my friends.
I've decided to just bite the bullet and tell him straight up that he's making everyone else uncomfortable.
I'm going to call him and suggest we go out for a drink at some point over the long weekend. I actually did just trying calling him now, but he didn't answer his phone, and he doesn't have an answering machine (or call waiting).
This thread has nothing to do with eldergays.
There are always a couple of people in any social group that behave this way. He may now explain it away because of the wisdom of his age but he probably acted the same way 20 years ago. Punch. and. delete.
As this is a film group there are probably many others with knowledge of many types of film so it will be no big loss.
No not all old people act this way but A LOT do. Iv'e seen it. At least the OP is trying to be sensitive to the guy and his feelings.
Is it me or does OP just seem sort of ... clueless?
OP = Clint
R45, you are clueless. As most people grow older they become more interested in what other people think and more tolerant. I've seen it.
It's typically asswipes in their 30's who suddenly think they know it all and find out the truth later.
[quote] Is it me or does OP just seem sort of ... clueless?
Why would you choose to go out for one-on-one drinks on a long weekend with someone you don't like!
Funny how people like OP always claim to flee drama when they're always courting it. I'm sure as soon as the bitchy eldergay fades into the background, OP and his sisterwives will find somebody else to target.
r50 nailed it.
Give it a rest, R50. I feel bad for this guy. Everyone else just wants him gone.
I did get him on the phone and I'm off to meet him at his favorite old-fart gay bar. My partner thinks this whole thing is hilarious.
Don't let them get rid of him OP, no matter how much they want him gone. If you do, next it will be you.
OP's movie group is like Survivor.
What city are you in OP? Your movie group sounds fun.
OP's probably out of the group if he fails in his mission.
OP: We are very sorry, but you just don't fit in. You are an old annoyance.
Eldergay: But I was just voicing my opinion and that waiter spilled beer on me!
OP: The tribe has spoken.
eldergay: Fuck you all.
First they came for the effeminates, and I did not speak out--
because I was not effeminate;
Then they came for the leather queens, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a leather queen;
Then they came for the eldergays, and I did not speak out--
because I was not an eldergay;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
OP, maybe he needs a good fucking. I think you should stick your dick in him and give him a thorough pounding. If he's still a douchebag after that, then he's a hopeless case and you should eject him from the group.
I'd be more assertive. If you like him, if you value his opinion (on films), let him know it, but step in quickly on the occasion that he gets off track and everyone else is staring at the mad man.
"Damn, Clint, we'll never be able to come back here after you've berated the waiter."
"Next week I'm going to be out of town so John will email you the details of our next meeting. You know what to do. And we'll look forward to seeing you then." (If he reads emails but doesn't respond, leave it at that: you've given him the details, he can either show up or not; I'm sure he could even reply by email if he had a serious question. - The flip side of this is choose a plan and stick to it; don't change the film three times and the time twice, and the place to meet once.)
When someone, say Clint, hogs the conversation and turns it into a one-sided lecture against smart phones or too thin towels or dogs and urban trees: "Well, we've gotten way off track for some time now but if I might interject, let's get back to talking about the film, shall we?"
I went out to meet him last night for a drink and he never showed.
I'm assuming he'll call me today, but I haven't heard from him yet.
He sounds like a flake, OP, but I still think you need to see if you can fuck the cranky out of him.
I'm NOT going to have sex with him.
It seems pretty obvious that you could just let Clint know about the situation, introduce him to a like-minded community of cranky old queens, and convince him of the value of modern technology by pointing him to the DL.
Maybe at your next get-together, you can put an empty chair next to him that he can lecture.
[quote] I'm assuming he'll call me today, but I haven't heard from him yet.
Clint isn't the only needy one!
After Clint never showed up for drinks, I re-read this thread and decided to just say fuck it and cut off contact with him and just move on. I haven't called him since my post at R52.
Our movie group met a few weeks ago and it was fun, like it used to be. Casual and fun. I thought, well, I made the right decision.
But this morning I woke up to find six messages on my phone, starting at 2:54 a.m. and ending almost an hour later. It was Clint and he was clearly drunk and possibly on something else.
The first message was semi-friendly. He said he knew the group had met without him and he was upset, but wanted to know if he'd done something wrong. It started to unravel from there.
Over the next few messages, Clint proceeded to go through each person in the group and tell me what he really thought of them. He called EVERY one of us "fat (something)." Like "fat Jew," "fat fag," "fat fucker." The guy he called a fat Jew isn't even Jewish (he's Italian).
He said a lot more offensive stuff, but the takeaway point here is that he was insanely drunk and clearly has some serious issues.
Now, I'm not sure if I should do something or not. My first reaction is to just delete and move on once again. At the same time, this did feel like a cry for help, or a cry for something.
OP keeps using the word "old" so much that he is either a dick or a troll (or both).
Just move on, OP. He sounds very unstable. Block his number and move on. If he shows up, tell him to leave. If he makes a scene, call the police. Don't engage. He's crazy. Sorry I suggested you sleep with him. He clearly has more problems than what a good fuck can fix.
OP, we've moved on.
Why would Clint start leaving messages when he is so opposed to, and clueless about, mobile phones and answering machines?
I think that someone (OP?) has murdered Clint and is now trying to leave false clues.
R68, OP is probably using the word old becuse that's what the guy is. His age is showing.
Sounds like you "fat ____" boys need to lay off the popcorn at the next feature.
So, the real reason Clint was angry all this time was that he was stuck hanging out with a bunch of fat fucks that talked about smartphones too much? Can't say I blame the guy.
Someone still on Facebook has no business criticizing anyone for not keeping up with the times.
Him not showing for drinks is your excuse for the group just going ahead and meeting without him.
I hated your tone in your original post, but yeah, Clint sounds like a cunt. Punch and delete.
Find a new fun eldergay.
OP here. I hadn't heard a word from Clint for months. Our movie group has continued on without him, and everyone agrees it's much better.
That said, I ran into Clint this afternoon. I was out for lunch with some friends and he was sitting at the bar alone, at 1 in the afternoon, looking drunk as shit.
Don't worry he will probably kill himself soon. I am sure you will never be old and lonely. You and the group have adopted a subtle group saying not directed at him. "OK everyone, let's keep it positive today,no negative talk" Made it sort of a joke. He might have picked up on that.
I know youngpeople like that too. Hardly an "eldergay" problem.
How does it feel to ostracize a man and drive him to his death, OP?
*marimba ringing sound*
OP: (picking up phone) "Hello?"
CLINT: (at other end of connection) "HISSSSSSSSS!"
OP, don't leave us hanging. You ran into Clint at a restaurant, and...? Did you two speak? Did he say anything about his behavior, which, despite criticism of you from the usual Data Lounge jackasses, is extremely antagonistic? I for one think you were much too forgiving of him, but I was curious about whether he finally realized that he was his own worst enemy.
R82, I noticed him sitting at the bar near the end of our meal. I have no idea how long he was there, or if he saw me, but I didn't approach him.
Is this restaurant a regular hangout of yours? Because I wonder if Clint has been parking himself there night after night in hope of running into you. I've known people to do things like that when they want to reconnect but need to create an "accidental" hookup. It's a sad tale, no doubt, but, aside from Clint's other capers, when you leave multiple phone messages after midnight, you are truly crossing a line.
[quote]That said, I ran into Clint this afternoon. I was out for lunch with some friends and he was sitting at the bar alone, at 1 in the afternoon, looking drunk as shit.
OP, look what YOU'VE DONE TO ME! My life is RUINED because of YOU and your ASSHOLE BITCHY-BOTTOM FRIENDS!!!
Best thread in a long tome.
[quote]He called EVERY one of us "fat (something)."
Oh dear. A group of blubberbubbas practising exclusion isn't pretty.
R87 is 87 years old.
Is that slang from the 1920s?
OP, all you really want from us is validation to kick the man out so you won't have any guilty feelings. I bet the old man didn't stand a chance in your group because he was "different" (age).
Go ahead and kick him out. Just be thankful it's not you being excluded this time.
OP, if you kill yourself now, you won't have an eldergay problem!
R90, did you even read the thread?
Here's what R91 wrote in the Charlie Brown thread:
[quote]It only took 45 posts for the young faggots to arrive!
Don't worry, OP. Clint's ancient prostate is swelling more and more by the day - it will soon explode, releasing a hissing sound that will be heard miles away.