In case of dollar or grid collapse, things you will need.
Please add anything -or any idea- you can think of that might be beneficial.
Laundry ringer circa 1870's anchor brand 12" wide opening.
H20 - gallons and gallons
manual can opener
Lots of canned tuna.
Oh, and small animal live traps for squirrels. You need two or three of these so you can catch squirrels, rabbits, chipmunks, etc. easiest way to deal with the squirrels is to dunk the cage in water for 2 minutes to drown them, it's quick for them and clean (no need to be cruel). Squirrels are low in fat high in protein, this could be a problem down the road without a source of fat to help maintain health,
That was very hard for me to post since I do not like meat, but, if you're starving...
Toilet paper. Get a ton of it. Then you can use it to barter.
I just watched 'Contagion' and those thoughts went through my head too.
Get your tuna in those foil packs so you don't need the can opener -- lighter weight to carry too.
Seeds and gardening supplies, and gardening books.
What will happen to the vegans?
Listerine for after eating all that tuna.
A good security system for when the looting begins.
Guns & ammo
candles, toothpaste, canned goods, muesli and trail mix, magazines, umbrella, bike, multi-vitamin, lube, clothesline...
A fishing rod, reel, line and lures; a ceramic water filter; a few chickens (a rooster and a few hens); chainsaw; plenty of gin.
"Laundry ringer circa 1870's anchor brand 12" wide opening."
It will be no time to be thinking about sex.
Unfettered access to DataLounge, so I keep current on ways to wash my hole using a canteen and know what station on my crank operated radio is playing non-stop Cher survivor anthems.
I was thinking a shopping cart. Just in case you have to keep moving, you could carry some essentials.
One shopping cart per person would be good, but where do you get them?
R14, you could probably find out from a homeless person for a small contribution.
I have a map to OP's bomb shelter.
system to sterilize water
pre-computerization car or truck
at least a six month supply of prescription drugs
gun and ammunition
I hope this is a joke
Here are some more things/ideas:
Baking soda and sea salt make a great toothpaste. I stopped using toothpaste years ago, and my teeth have never been healthier. Commercial toothpaste has chemicals that soften your teeth, ntm aspartame, a chemical weapon that's in everything thanks to D.R.
Honey is antibacterial.
Dandelions make a great addition to any salad, the roots can be dried and ground and used as a coffee substitute (or, mixed with coffee grounds in a post-SHTF situation to eke out meager supplies), and the flowers can be used to make wine. Medically, dandelion leaves are a diuretic and can help with water retention and are considered to be good for liver and kidney function.
Rose Hips - You can make Rose Hip Syrup, made from the ripened fruit bodies left behind when rose petals fall to the ground, It is a remarkably concentrated source of vitamin C.
How do you get a -month supply of prescription drugs? My doctor only prescribes one month at a time.
guns and lots of ammo to steal all of R2-R19's supplies.
Here's a link to a peak oil forum. They have all kinds of tips and advice and know-how re: preparedness. They're also very friendly and would welcome your questions.
[quote]How do you get a -month supply of prescription drugs?
The drugs I need the most my doc gives a 3-month rx for. No one uses them for fun, so it wouldn't be hard to get extras. And I live close enough to the border that I could drive down there a couple of times to stock up.
I haven't done it. I just read so much sci-fi as a teenager, that I've thought this through before.
Double headed black (tire grade) dildo, oh yea, lube as well
I lived in a hole I dug in a secluded lot, that I lined with plastic. It wasn't the roomiest or most luxurious of accommodations, but it was safe and livable. I had a Styrofoam chest filled with ice to keep my perishables like lunch meat and milk cool, a small area to cook in with a pipe for ventilation, and a shelf carved out for my bed. At night I pull some old debris over the top to conceal the entrance. I cannot stress the need for stealth when entering an exiting whatever shelter you find.
HUGH JACKMAN as his massive cock.
R26, you're saying you used to live in a hole in the ground?
What kind of details do you want that I have not supplied?
one of the many books written about what to do when Y2K was about to happen....
How much more not worth living could life be? I guess the best one could hope for is to be adopted by an Amish family as they will be the ones who provide all the examples and answers but I shudder to think what a gigantic Amish world could be like much as I admire them right now.
"The drugs I need the most my doc gives a 3-month rx for. No one uses them for fun, so it wouldn't be hard to get extras. And I live close enough to the border that I could drive down there a couple of times to stock up."
Don't try that, R23. I met a girl who traveled to Mexico with a family of Mexicans recently. She said they scan your entire car, you cannot have even an empty pill bottle with you. Anything remotely drug related causes them to rip your car apart, and leave you by the side of the road to put it back together. She said her hosts told her to bring the exact number of prescription pills she needed for the trip, and use them all up before they tried to cross. They didn't want anything in the car that would cause them to be searched. They even brough the title to the car and a bunch of paperwork showing they had owned it for years. Apparently the authorities are really interested in whose car it is and how long you've had it.
Apparently the only people that can get drugs over the border are professional drug smugglers that bribe everybody. They were even worried about their gran having a prescription pill or two in her purse. You can't mail drugs to yourself in the US either apparently. They had a lot of family connections there and knew what to do.
For the poster who wanted to wash clothes without electricity, a new, heavy duty accordion style toilet plunger in a plastic tub does a good job of agitating clothes and cleaning them, just keep a separate one for clothing only. Keep a new one that is a different color from the rest in a closet. If you do need a wringer, there are square shaped, usually yellow plastic, janitorial buckets that wring out mops with a crank, a clean never-used one will wring out clothes.
Heloise's Handy Household Hints.
Bonnet, butter churner, typewriter.
Pretty sure if the grid collapses and society descends into anarchy, I'm checking out. There isn't a world left to live in and I'm not much for Mad-Maxing my way through what remains.
I'm with R38. I don't want to live in a world without air conditioning and internet. Peace the fuck out.
Vodka Sour mix.
Oh, and Vodka.
√ Laundry ringer circa 1870's anchor brand 12" wide opening.
nope H20 - gallons and gallons
√ manual can opener
The laundry ringer is a legacy of my husband's New England family.
What about kerosene lanterns?
Washing clothes with plunger & janitor bucket ringer! Excellent, R36, just excellent.
I'm not checking out. I think it could be exciting and a huge adventure. Count me in. I may do laundry for a living with my super plunger and wringer. I'll become the Washer Magnate. You just know all the queens will want to look their best even during the apocalypse.
Ok, I understand provisions, weaponry (A gun and ammo might not be the best solution btw!) and shelter.
But nobody has mentioned the obvious - when the hit hits the fan paper money will be worthless. Recall Germany in the late 1920's and early 1930's where you had to bring a wheel barrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.
Instead - hard currency - aka gold, silver, platinum will be the medium of trade.
Laugh all you want about the toilet plunger/wringer thing. This week, the Gulf Coast is going to be hit by a hurricane, and in all likelihood, thousands of people will be without power afterward, for days or weeks. The people who live there can choose to have no way to clean their clothes, or clean them without electricity. Having some kind of tools to do it with is easier than having to put your back into it, especially if you're not used to doing heavy labor. I've scrubbed using a washboard too, it worked, but was harder than I expected and rusted just from being in the steamy bathroom, even when it wasn't being used. I'd never store one in the bathroom again.
People that live in areas with frequent weather-related power failures know how to live off the grid when they have to. And they don't kill themselves because "life isn't worth living without electricity" either, they suck it up and carry on.
In real life, I don't expect gayborhoods to be full of dead caftan-and-earring-wearing bodies the day after, clutching their cocktails in one hand and a smoking revolver in the other, while Judy Garland sings on an endless loop in the background until the iPod battery gives out. Most people really do want to live even if everything isn't perfect.
R43, up until now, the medium of trade in countries with collapsing monetary systems has been the US dollar. When people won't take the local currency, because it's rapidly deflating (see Argentina), they will still take US dollars. The EU isn't prepared to take over that role worldwide, their own economy isn't doing great in a lot of cases. China's even having a serious recession now, they are manufacturing goods that have no buyers and are piling up in warehouses unsold.
If our economy collapses, the vacumn that takes the place of our economy will crush every other economy on earth.
If we go, we're taking the entire planet with us.
[quote]People that live in areas with frequent weather-related power failures know how to live off the grid when they have to. And they don't kill themselves because "life isn't worth living without electricity" either, they suck it up and carry on.
They don't kill themselves because they know the power will eventually be restored, and they're not having to go out and eat squirrels (and each other) to survive. You really want to live in a world where'd you have to kill people (or be killed) over simple shit like food? Have at it. Sounds like hell to me.
What R38 said.
Using a public toilet is what I consider roughing it, so I'm screwed!
Cannibals were not hunting in Central Park in 1912, or 1812. Rich people were merciless towards poor people that committed crimes out of poverty and desperation. Law and order was maintained by oppressing the poor, of which there were many. Ever read Charles Dickens?
The main standard of living differences were no antibiotics or birth control, and cooking and cleaning was very time-consuming and by hand. People did have food, light, heat and clean clothes, it just wasn't done with electricity.
My sister lived without electricity or running water on the family farm in 1955. There was plenty to eat, though little variety. Their entertainment revolved around reading, playing board games or cards, or visiting with friends and family, not televisions, video games or computers. They lived "in the moment" in a way we don't now. That may be a drastic change from what you know, but it's not "unendurable." It was actually less stressful in some ways. She was very sorry to move to the city, and still regrets it to this day.
People adjust. If you want to know what an economic collapse is really like, there's a guy who lived in Argentina until recently, he wrote a book and a blog about living through an economic collapse there. Lots of violent random crime (robberies, kidnappings and random home invasions are common, prosecution is not), but the part he couldn't deal with was that government kept cracking down on people's ability to emigrate or use US dollars (their standard for savings or big purchases until recently) until they couldn't leave. In failing economic times, the government really tries to force people to rely on the local currency so it doesn't collapse even further, including freezing bank accounts or stopping people from withdrawing large sums from the bank. The same thing happened in the US during the Great Depression.
He's still got family there, they say as soon as the government passed some laws making it almost impossible to leave, things got a lot worse for the ones left behind. They keep telling him "you left just in time." He kept a close eye on the government's response to the situation. When it appeared they were going to restrict emigration rather than deal with the problems, he picked up his family and left, to a place where he knew nobody and had no job or connections. It takes balls to do that. He's a politically conservative guy, so take his political views with a grain of salt, but he has good practical advice from seeing this type of situation close up, and he's not mean or crazy. Keep in mind he's not American and may not understand our political situation.
Here's his take on warning signs of an inpending "economic collapse":
Hey, R44, I'm not making fun of toilet plunger/wringer laundry so I hope you're not directing your indignation at me. Unclench those fists, sweetheart.
I grew up in Florida and appreciate the possibility of powerless living though back in the olden days I just don't remember these kinds of canes that knocked power out for ages. Maybe a few hours or a day but that was it.
R43, you're not paying attention because we've already mentioned cornering the toilet paper supply as a means of currency exchange. Stay alert or a storm battered palm tree will fall on your head.
I never considered myself a survivalist. Hell I don't even like camping. But after 9/11 (I live in DC) and reading World War Z I started thinking about escape routes and "survival" techniques. I imagine any kid who saw The Swiss Family Robinson or visited the tree house at Disney World has had fantasies about such things. Anyway I am embarrassed to admit that after reading WWZ I got Max Brooks' zombie survival guide which I think he wrote first. All kinds of interesting tips not necessarily related to zombies but funny as hell.
Don't forget PLASTIC. Invaluable for keeping the toilet paper dry.
That's r48. I had lost my link to his blog. Some of the product recommendations are useful to people who live in hurricane zones.
If you live in an area of the country where they lose power in the winter, invest in a couple of these if you can afford it. They put out a lot of light (and heat), and several in a room will warm it even if there is no heat. They use kerosene, or the company's own fuel. Super refined "lamp oil" is not really recommended, it burns too hot for the lamp and can cause problems. But if you live where you can by K1 kerosene at the gas station, this will use it and you can actually read by it. They are beautiful too. Expensive, but the parts can all be replaced or pirated off other lamps of the same brand. Any 10 inch kerosene shade will fit them, or a 4 inch fitter gas shade. They have to be for kerosene lamps, not for electric lamps.
The lamps can also be changed to electric lamps, by draining out the kerosene and unscrewing the kerosene burner, then replacing it with an electric "burner" that can be purchased separately and screwed in like a light bulb. Just use it as an electric lamp until you need it as a kerosene lamp.
You can buy parts or entire lamps at some Ace Hardwares throughout the country, or from dealers. Some are listed on the website.
Here's a site where you can buy Aladdin Lamp replacement parts. You can still get parts for any lamp back to the first ones built in 1906. If you find one at a garage sale cheap, you can get replacement parts if you know the model number. People still use them and they still work. Even if the burner is stripped or ruined, as long as you can get it out you can replace it. Just make sure the font doesn't leak by putting water in it and leaving it on a paper towel for a while. If it does, you can buy another one.
The chimneys ("lox-on" vs "heelless"), and the part of the burner that the chimney screws onto has to be the same type. But you can buy the right chimney separately if you need one. They don't break easily.
[quote] How do you get a -month supply of prescription drugs? My doctor only prescribes one month at a time.
you have your doctor write a scrip for a 90 day supply and then use one of the mail order pharmacies like Express-Scripts
This is the "oillampman" website, they have a lot of oil lamps and parts.
A lot of times if you look for local mom and pop hardware stores in areas of the country where they get rough weather, this is a good time of year to get Aladdin lamps at a good sale price, especially discontinued models.
Then there's the lehmans dot com website, they cater to Mennonites and others who live off the grid, go there, you will get a lot of good ideas.
A good de-boning knife that can handle a human carcass.
I'm with R38. Rent or read The Road and see why I'll be like Charlize and getting drunk and wandering out into the darkness after the first 10 minutes of the collapse.
Truth be told the Gun trumps everything, fresh water, food, gold, medical supplies etc.
My Louis Vuitton bags, Chanel sunglasses, Hermes scarves and Louboutins.
Lots and LOTS of ammo and a shotgun.
Matches, a shovel and a cast iron skillet.
Yeast (someone's gotta brew and make bread, right?)
“You can never have too many hats, gloves, and shoes.”
firewood: for heat and cooking.
water: Lots of it. A backpacking filter pump would be handy.
food: at least 6 months worth.
guns: and lots of ammo
Hand cranked radio:
A 1960's car should survive an EMP.
What is all this about killing yourself?
Didn't anyone watch Little House on the Prairie?
They seemed to do just fine.
Stop being such drama queens.
The real worry this time is there is only a two-day supply of everything. As soon as a critical mass of people do not go to work, the country collapses faster than the news will be able to cover it. You WILL NOT KNOW what's going ob.
How many of us can catch, dress and cook anything that was alive and running around? Start a fire? Start a dead car? A hundred other things our parents and grandparents could do.
Could you shoot and kill somebody? You'll very likely have to do it.
Yeah - weapon and gold are my top two followed by communication gear. When I say communication I don't mean cell phone.
I have my amateur radio and commercial radio licenses and have a Yaesu VX-7rb handheld transceiver.
So I guess I'm ready.
I saw something about the "washing clothes by plunger" thing today. Apparently a lot of people have tried it. You drill holes in the plunger to allow the water to wash through it. Get a five gallon pail, drill a large hole in the lid for the handle of the plunger to go through. It's similar to churning butter. They also recommend you leave the clothes to soak in soapy water for quite a while before washing, it helps get the dirt and oils out. It seems to work quite well.
Flour, yeast and oil to make bread. Dry beans for protein, dried fruit to keep you from going nuts over your bland diet.
Hmm, I might just resort to the plunger/bucket method before the apocalypse--I live in an apartment without a washer/dryer on site, nor is there a laundromat nearby. Hauling laundry everywhere sucks when you just run out of underwear.
A devoted servant
R63, In that case we better start stocking up on plaid dresses and hair ties for the pony tails
I wish I'd known about the plunger method when I lived in a place like that in SF, R68. The apartment was always full of dirty clothes because it was such a hassle to drag loads of laundry for blocks to a laundromat with no parking.
I could easily live at home for a year. I'd just have extra cash and weed on hand.
This e-book is a must have for all "survivalist" types. Print it off though (double-sided 'cause it's over 700 pages), because obviously when the shit hits the fan, you won't be able to access it unless you have some kind of solar thing or generator going to power up your laptops, PCs, tablets.
It's a book from 1881, called "Household Cyclopedia" and it tells you how to do pretty much everything the old-fashioned way, e.g. how to hatch chickens, how to slaughter animals, how to make candles, how to make whiskey, how to look after farm animals, etc. It's got fucking EVERYTHING.
[quote]Flour, yeast and oil to make bread.
And what will you do with that lump of bread dough? Bake it in an oven? Good luck with that.
[quote] Get a five gallon pail, drill a large hole in the lid for the handle of the plunger to go through
Lid? I've never bought a pail with a lid. Do you mean garbage pails?
In order for the world to turn back to 1881, about 6 1/2 billion people will have to die.
There is no way the planet can politically survive this without global war, which eliminates everyone, so plan for very high unemployment for generations, polarized inflation/deflation, years of collapsing infrastructure, a phenomenal increase in violent crime, common back alley surgery, worthlessness of human life and hostile government authority procedures. That is the reality.
R75, 5 gallon pails have lids that go with them for foodservice, paint and other purposes. Winco sells both the pail and the lid separately. You can also buy them at Walmart or Home Depot in the paint department.
The lids can be hard to get off, so they have a plastic pry tool that helps get the lids open.
"Gamma seal" lids are two piece spinner lids for food storage. You hammer the frame down onto the pail with a mallet, then the lid unscrews open and closed really easily. They are airtight. People use them to store dog food or rice. That's not the type of lid you would want for washing clothes, they are heavier and more expensive.
If you want to buy 5 gallon pails for food storage, make sure they are OK for food. Orange or colored pails usually aren't. The orange ones at Home Depot are ok for paint or washing clothes, not food. They could leach chemicals into food. Usually the manufacturer will say if they are "food grade" on their website or labeling. Any 5 gallon pail originally used for food products (like flour or icing) is safe. Food pails are usually white.
A flashlight that can be recharged by shaking
A radio with a crank
Some bleach to purify water with
Three months worth of food
warm clothing and bedding
A deck of 100% plastic playing cards for entertainment
Lots of condoms
A shotgun to protect yourself and your goods
There's a show called "Disaster House" I just saw listed. It's got an episode on tonight, 1:30 am Pacific Time, on the diy channel. The episode tonight is how to prevent sewage from backing up into your house, in case of power grid loss for several days, for example if there is an earthquake or hurricane or flood.
I haven't seen the show, but I advise anybody that gets a chance to watch it, because I know what they're talking about. No power grid = no water treatment plant = several days later, the level of sewage rises across the system and starts backing up into people's house. Definitely worth finding out about this.
If the power goes at at your house, just fly to one of your other houses.
I found this comment interesting.
[quote]One thing y'all had better stock up on BIG time is -- toilet paper! I was in Korean War in 1952 when the U.S. Army and Marines RAN OUT OF TOILET PAPER. SearsRoe and MWard catalogues sure came in handy but not a pleasant substitute for the real thing. Today I keep a SIX MONTH SUPPLY of high-Q T.P. on hand. Always buy on sale or from a wholesale outlet. Caveat emptor.
Learn to make you own bleach out of Pool Shock chemicals. Its simple and easy. Liquid Chlorine Bleach starts to lose its effectiveness at 6 months. Calcium Hypochlorite is pool shock and can be purchased anywhere that sells pool supplies. Just make sure you do NOT get Sodium hypochlorite. A bag under $5 will purify 160,00 gallons of water.
Bleach will be need to sanitize you living environment also.
Also, water can be made safe to drink using the sun's ultraviolet rays using a clear plastic bottle. It's a simple process. Google "Sodis", there's a great website that explains the process in detail. The basics are a clear food grade plastic bottle not too much over a litre in size, clear (strained or settled) water in it, exposed to six hours of direct sunlight. But read up on it on the website, much more info there.
I think I will move next to a morman and make friends with them...they have it all figured out.
R86, one thing that REALLY pisses off preppers is lazy, unmotivated people that say "f there's an emergency, I'll just come to your house." It really makes them angry because they spend years reading up on this stuff, and thousands of dollars buying equipment and food to take care of their own families, and people are esentially saying, "I won't get off my ass and do one thing to help myself, I'll just go to your house and take away from your family to benefit myself." Like hell. You will NOT be welcome there, and you will really piss them off.
Last week a family member went on a trip. I packed her a bag of supplies. She used the large size Mag-Lite every day of her trip, going up and down the stairs in somebody else's house at night, ran out of gas and needed a gas can, used the aspirin, Pepto Bismol, scissors, running shoes...half the bag I packed, she used, including stuff I didn't think she would need for this trip. She knew I put the bag in the car, and what was in it, she just didn't think she would need it, until she got there. That's what it's for.
If you seriously want to know how to cover your OWN ass, and not expect somebody else to do it for you, the Mormons have a number of websites teaching people how to store food and other supplies for themselves. Here's one:
Here's another site with basic info about what to buy. A lot of these sites are run by Christian, conservative types, just go past that. You really need to take advantage of other people's experience and practice, you will never be able to figure it all out by yourself.
BTW, the usual prepper attitude on people showing up at the door wanting to be fed/taken care of/supplied in case of emergency is to consider them to be looters and shoot them.
But I thought Christians are supposed to help the poor and hungry? Of which I'll be both after the collapse.
Not these Christians. They believe in looking after their own family. If you think they are into giving away thousands of dollars of food and supplies they took years to build, then just unlock the front door of your house, hand me the keys to your car, and I'll just help myself.
Well R90, I'm not a Christian--so I'm not going to just unlock my door and let you help yourself. But that doesn't excuse the hypocrisy of "real" Christians in this scenario.
Here's the Mormon website "Provident Living." A lot of people use this site because they give a lot of nutritional and other guidelines that help you figure out what you need.
Also, many Mormon food storage centers sell long-term storage food to members of the public. There's a link on this site that shows where in your area you can buy LDS long term storage foods. The prices are very low. You have to call ahead and make arrangements. LDS believe in helping others create their own food storage, not supplying the world with free food for no cost or effort.
Recipes are extremely important if you are going to store and use long term storage foods. They are usually stored one ingredient at a time, and you have to cook or prepare them from scratch. There are recipes on this site too.
R91, Christians aren't doormats. If you think anybody, Christian or not, can afford to support your family while you refuse to do it yourself, you're an idiot. Don't tell me you're not willing to help anybody "because you're not Christian," but Christians are supposed to bankrupt themselves supporting you. Buying the tools, food and equipment to support yourself during an emergency is a major investment. You may think this stuff is unecessary or a waste of money, fine, then go hungry and cold if the lights go out. It's your choice. Or be an adult and take responsibility for yourself.
It's not a couple of sandwiches, it's the equivalent of an expensive hobby. People give up buying luxury items and cheap Chinese crap to protect their own parents and children, not yours. Nobody in their right mind is going to take food out of their own kids' mouths to support some leech that refuses to support himself.
I'm not even a Republican, a Christian or a conservative, and that attitude really pisses me off. I have literally spent hundreds of dollars just on backpacks alone for family members, and I'm not done. And you think I'm supposed to do it for you too? Open your own damn wallet, I'm not supporting you.
This attitude is exactly why preppers do not talk about what they have.
I know it's fun to portray "preppers" as nut. I don't even use that word. It makes you wonder though how being able to take care of yourself in an emergency can be considered crazy. My family has been doing it for years. My father is a chemist, my mother is a Dr., I'm an accountant, and the rest of my family is fully employed and sane.
We have two farm houses in Maine next door to each other. I plan on being there full-time in about a year or two.
Maine is probably the best state to be a prepper in. If anyone is interested I'll list the reasons. Anyway here is a link to a Maine prepper(no relation) so you can see what a sane one sounds like.
Here's a hint. Even if you don't smoke buy about 50 cartons of cigarettes. They be as good to trade with as gold.
Why not just accept the fact that if something really bad happens, we're all fucked.
The average person who is living paycheck to paycheck probably can't afford to stock up on a years worth of food, much less have the space to store it.
If the shit hits the fan, most everybody will die from disease which most people won't be able to deal with.
"Truth be told the Gun trumps everything, fresh water, food, gold, medical supplies etc."
Not really. Just what are you going to shoot at that's going to provide you continuing food, basic medical knowledge, a supply of purified water, etc etc etc?
You can only point and shoot so many times. You kill the guy that knows how to farm or hunt you may eat one or two meals at his expense. Then you will need the calories and energy to travel to your next attack.
Plus most preppers prepared enough to preform such tasks on a long term basis are prepared at a group level. You probably wouldn't make it past their perimeter. They'll be watching you before you even notice they are there.
Here's another item: A fleet of functioning bikes.
"Not these Christians. They believe in looking after their own family."
Actually having a policy dealing with the unprepared/refugees is a must to be prepared. You will not have to worry about them long. The first three weeks(assuming it's a disaster on a grand scale that will last a while)will be the worst. Then as they die off you will have a less and less chance of coming in contact with them.
We have two large apple orchards and some cases of cheap oodles of noodles type thing. And some bags of assorted mini candy bars. Each person passing along who may ask for food will get a bag and a speech that it's all we can afford and they have to keep moving there is nothing else for you here.
Those who would take an aggressive demanding position would be shot before they could become a threat.
But you have to have and SOP for these types of things before everything gets fucked up.
Actually, R95, this is where the reading comes in.
You can buy a Sawyer water purification system which will purify 1 million gallons of water. Pool shock is another way to purify water. If you have clean water, you can avoid a lot of illness. After reading up on this, I'm not going to travel any more without a small water purification system. You can buy one for as little as $50. If you keep up on news reports from around the country, it's now extremely common for people to get "boil water" orders with little or no notice. The U.S. no longer has clean, pure water coming out of every faucet. You can buy water containers from Walmart, fill them with tap water with 8 drops of (unscented) bleach per gallon, and they will keep for a year. If you use the water, it will smell like bleach, but if you pour it into an open container and let it sit, the bleach will dissipate.
You can go to Costco or any store, buy 20 lbs of beans, 20 lbs of white rice, and 20 lbs of oatmeal, put it in plastic ziplock bags and freeze it for 2 weeks to kill any bug larvae, then put it in 5 gallon pails and it will store for at least 2 years or more. Add oxygen absorbers and it will last longer. Add salt, sugar, honey, which all keep indefintely, and olive oil or cooking oil, some canned vegetables, fruit and meat, and a few cans of foods that can be combined with something else to make a meal like soup, stew, gravy, envelopes of chili mix or gravy mix, soymilk or almond milk in packages that don't need to be refrigerated, and you're covered for a couple of months or more. There are a lot of foods you can buy now in individual foil packages like tuna, spam, lentil stew, etc.
If you have more room, 10 gallon cans full of dehydrated or freeze dried foods last for years. You open one, it will last 1 year from when you opened it. Here's a company that will ship freeze dried foods to your door. Keep in mind, a these cans have no water, so the amount in the can is concentrated.
Ugh. You "ZOMG! It's the end of the world!" queens are sooo tedious.
R98, How do you and the other preppers know when disaster strikes that you will have access to where your food and supplies are stored? That you can actually get to a safe area, and that the air will be fine to breathe? Isn't it a very negative world view? Sure I believe in having emergency supplies for a couple of weeks in case of temporary natural disaster. Never want to be down to your last can or roll of tp. Always helpful in case of illness, when getting to the nearby store is a pain. But seriously?
Having a "negative view" is deciding it's hopeless, so don't even try, when you don't even know in advance what the event is, and could have easily saved yourself. Should they have thrown every lifeboat and life vest off the Titanic, because it's "negative" to think the ship could sink? How about "planning for the worst, hoping for the best"?
People always assume every single prepper is prepping for the end of the world. They're not. But we've spent the last 50 years beating up the planet, and things have changed.
Fracking is believed to cause earthquakes, sinkholes and contaminate tap water. Global warming has caused tornados, hurricanes and severe snowstorms with more severity and in more areas than ever before. Power lines go down during weather events for weeks, not days. Utility companies have laid off a lot of repairmen, delaying repairs. There are many old, obsolete nuclear power plants all over the country, some identical to Fukushima. Our electrical grid is old and not always reliable. One blown fuse can put out several states. With no electricity, water treatment is the first thing to go. Bottom line, our infrastructure is shot, after decades of neglect, and extreme weather is pushing it.
These days, if you lose a job, you can be out of work for months or even years. Many preppers can their own food, buy in bulk or on sale, clip coupons and cook from scratch to save money. You know, like those crazy preppers, Grandma and Grandpa.
Preppers are essentially living the lifestyle of your grandparents. Save money, put your family's security ahead of spending money on short-term crap. Prepare for "a rainy day." The grandparents learned it from the Great Depression, people today are learning it from
the Great Recession.
When I was a kid, they used to tell us to keep three days of food and water in the house in case of an earthquake. Now ready.gov says keep 2-3 weeks or more. That's because of Katrina, and the "just-in-time" computerized system that keeps very low stock in stores around the country.
In the 1940's there was about 30 days food in stores across America. Now there's about 3 days. That's why every time there's a snowstorm or hurricane, the stores look wiped out. There is NO extra cushion. If you want extra food, water or batteries, buy them before the emergency, not during or after. It won't be there.
Nobody is going to take care of you but you.
OK, I'm still back at R26. Yes, we have questions. Were you living in a hole? Why were you living in a hole? That hole sounds like it's the size of a small NYC apartment. How long did it take you to dig it?
I'm sure I have more questions, but that's all for now.
I live in a strange little neighborhood that is sort of a big cul de sac. But with good size number of roads and houses. The transfomer that serves our neighborhood blows out in a stiff breeze and it also gets hit by cars alot. We always have power outages.
So I bought a shit load of solar garden lights. When it happens I take those fuckers indoors and light up my house. Safer than candles and kerosene and I never have to refill, I just take them back outside.
R102, I am one of the few people that I know that have more than a few days of supplies. I don't make jam, bread, or pasta sauce like my mom but I make almost everything else. Most of what is prepared is way over priced and not made from "real" ingredients; I don't even consider some it food anymore. Still there's a difference between prepping for short-term emergencies and being careful, and anticipating doomsday. Yet for those devastated by Katrina, they had to leave their homes with almost nothing. What good would it have been for them to have stockpiles of food, fuel, and sanitary goods if they didn't have access?
R105, if they had a bugout bag with all their important papers and their photos either backed up online or on a portable drive, they would have had their insurance papers, mortgage papers, deed to their house, and all their irreplaceable pictures. Also, a lot of those people were living in shelters or on somebody's couch. Having a few changes of clothes, a pack of food and water in their car, and their own toiletries would have helped. Even our cat has her own pack, full of catfood, a blanket, soft collapsible bowls, toys, a harness and leash, engraved dogtag and she has a chip. The plastic cat carrier has puppy pads in it and our name and phone number on it. A lot of this stuff has to be done in advance, like the chip.
Trying to grab everything and go when you get a call that the neighborhood is on fire and you have to go now, in the middle of the night, or with five minute's notice, is impossible. Could you find your passport and birth certificate in the middle of the night? How about if there's a tornado warning or flood warning, can you remember where everything is?
I read a story this summer about people in Colorado during the wildfires. They were evacuated and told it was for three days. They didn't get home for over a week. Seniors didn't have their meds, they left their pets at home, and couldn't get back. Pets were locked in the house with no food or water. They had no cash, ATMs didn't work, stores were closed. No Red Cross. Some elderly people were sleeping on the bare ground in a parking lot for a week, no blanket or sleeping bags, no tent, no clean clothes. Ash falling on their faces and getting in their lungs. No masks. They were trapped there and couldn't leave.
What's in your car now? A sleeping bag or blanket? Any food or water? Flashlight? Work gloves? Googles and N95 mask in case of ash, smoke or airborne particles? A foldup rain poncho or umbrella? A change of clothes and walking shoes? A cellphone charger? Whatever is in there, could you live on it for a week?
Remember the TV series "MASH"? One episode they had to "bugout." Bugout means just that - leave and never come back. If you had to do that now, how many hours would it take to get essential papers together, food, water, clothes and blankets for each family member and pet and put them in your car?
It's no longer a matter of when the collapse is going to happen but when you're going to feel it affect you. It's already underway.
I'm just glad me and most of my family are prepared. I admit though that most can't do what me and my family could. Sad. There's just too many people on the planet anyway.
Ten years ago I would have voted for an EMP to be the end but I guess it's going to just be an economic/resource collapse.
There is a silent part of me that is almost looking forward to it.
Who are these families you speak of? Is this thread full of straight people?
Well a few of us have these novelties called parents and siblings. Yes there are gay families too.
Every time I watch House Hunters with a family of two or three looking at luxury 4000sq ft homes, I hope and pray that the collapse comes--and soon! I'm willing to take one for the team if it means ending the lives of these fucking resource pigs. I'm ashamed and embarrassed for the human race, especially Americans.
There's a huge difference between being ready for the after effects of a big storm and thinking you need to be ready for the end of the world.
A number of years ago I lived in South Florida. I listened to the recommendations about having extra water & food to heed. Also made a point of buying battery powered lanterns, keeping extra batteries, an extra propane tank. Most of the stuff I bought I use when I go camping
All this came in very handy when we went through Hurricanes Frances and Jeanne and I lost power for quite a while.
Preparing for the end of society seems a bit drastic.
"Who are these families you speak of? Is this thread full of straight people?"
I'm assuming a lot of people have partners that may live with them or near them, pets, elderly parents that can't really care for themselves in an emergency situation, maybe siblings who are divorced with small kids, or starving students with no money.
And then there's you, Orphan Annie.
38 free handbook, PDF, downloads to get you started and thinking.
Other things you will need are a map and compass. I figure I will have to abandon my car at some point, and do a lot of walking.
Someone recommended to me I keep a pair of work gloves in the car. I couldn't think of why, but it sounded like a good idea, so I bought some and put a pair in my sister's car too.
A week later she ran out of gas, had to get some and carry the container back to the car. She said the work gloves helped her carry the heavy container (2 gallons = 16 pounds) back to the car. You could also use them in a pinch to remove a stuck gas cap, unscrew a radiator cap, use if you get stuck in a cold car and have no other gloves, etc. All in all, a good investment for $8 at the flea market.
You never know.
I live in a suburb of Denver. I was evacuated because of a fire a number of years ago, and was clueless. The police came to my door, and told me that I had to leave. I immediately grabbed my most expensive items (prada coats and louboutins) along with a couple of family photos. I had never given any thought to what I would take with me in such a situation, and I panicked. People later ripped my ass about the fact that I didn't bring social security cards, financial records, etc, but I thought that I could replace those things easily. I do keep a supply of water and canned goods (in Colorado the only worry is a terrorist attack). I don't see the point in the freeze dried emergency food. Why can't you just eat canned stuff in case of an emergency? I have a 22 gun, which I need to learn how to shoot. Is that powerful enough to keep looters away? And how on earth am I supposed to protect my 2500 square foot home, with two levels, alone? If someone broke into the basement, and there was no security (I am assuming that my security system would not work without electricity) how would I keep looters away?
[quote]And how on earth am I supposed to protect my 2500 square foot home, with two levels, alone?
You might want to check the Argentine blog I linked. He describes dealing with the Argentine economic collapse some years ago and the ensuing crime problems. There's some discussion of how to prepare and deal with problems in an urban area. I haven't read it lately, but I've found some tips there that apply to my local issue, which is hurricane preparation.
R117, Read part of your link. Most interesting that canned food lasts for decades beyond the expiration date. I volunteered to work with can distribution for the needy. The supervisor insisted on throwing out all out-of-date cans. He said they could be sued if someone got sick. I left those cans on a bus bench with a note saying, "free to whomever wants them." I wasn't allowed to rescue those cans with a slight dent from shipping. The trash can got those.
R74, I have a solar oven that works just fine. No "lumps" of bread. I haven't used it lately and it's in my storage shed, but I'm not about to get rid of it.
I store a bigger supply of essentials than I did at one time. Nothing huge, but I have a supply of laundry detergent and body soap/shampoo, along with canned goods, grains, aspirin, and a great first-aid kit. I have both kerosene and solar lanterns and a small generator. I have a bellows-style plunger for laundry.
I like Lehman's and highly recommend them. They're Mennonites who have been selling to the Amish for a long time. Near their store is a colony of Old Order Amish who don't use any modern conveniences and whose clothing and linens are very dark colors only. They're the ones who refuse to put reflectors on their buggies because that's seen as being modern. Needless to say, there have been many car v. buggy accidents as a result.
R118, the reason you're not supposed to use dented cans past the expiry date is that there can be very tiny pinholes slowly letting air and bacteria in. I remeber people buying slightly dented cans on sale when I was a kid. I wouldn't recommend it now, but if you get one by mistake, or dent one by dropping it, it's ok to use it right away. After the expiry date? You're taking a chance. Generally, if cans aren't bulging or leaking, and you hear the vacumm pop when you open them, it's ok. However, high-acid canned foods like tomato paste or citrus fruit should be eaten by the date on the can. They don't keep as well.
If you are buying canned fish for long term storage, buy it canned in oil, not canned in water. It lasts longer and the oil in the can can be added during the cooking process. Cooking oil doesn't last long in a bottle, so having some already in the can with the fish helps.
Why do you people think the world is going to end? It will end one day, but not anytime soon.
We are not even close. 12/21/2012 is a fun conjecture but nothing more.
I would be more worried about not having a job or not having enough money
for retirement or failing health.
[quote]Every time I watch House Hunters with a family of two or three looking at luxury 4000sq ft homes, I hope and pray that the collapse comes--and soon!
You need to get yourself a hobby.
I wouldn't consider myself even remotely obsessive on this subject. But some hard knocks and severe weather made me do the emergency essentials for my house, a truck, and my business.
House: bugout bags in backpacks with essential tools, food and camping stuff.
Emergency propane heater, emergency stove, emergency lighting. A small solar panel for recharging LED lights and cellphones. UPS on my home office computers, with offsite backup. 10 days of water storage, complete first aid kit.
Truck: 3 days of food and water, simple shelter and warmth, first aid and emergency kits, hand winch, tools, spare serpentine belt, oil, etc.
Business: we do mission critical stuff, and the computers have had good UPS boxes and offsite data storage for many years. I was surprised how cheap emergency backup generators are now, so I just bought a low end Generac for power outages (longest one ever was for 5 days.) It's an automatic 'home generator' well suited for keeping reefers, lights and heat going at your house...but it also has a commercial use warranty and will be able to keep our business running nicely.
What would you suggest, R124? Spend more time on DL? Or prepare myself for when the sky falls?
[quote] Lots of canned tuna.
Ick, if it comes to that I'd rather starve.
R126, try Season's skinless, boneless canned sardines. They sell them at Costco for a very good price. In fact, they are having a promotion now and are $2 off. (Spam is on promotion now at Costco too).
Season's is low in salt, unlike many canned meats, packed in oil. The cans for sale now are good until 2016.
They are the first canned sardines I ever had, so after a while, I tried a less expensive brand. Huge difference. They are good with mixed vegetables and tomato paste, or as mini-pizzas on bread toasted in the oven with a little tomato paste, basil, garlic and onions. Drizzle a little of the olive oil over the top. (350 degrees for 13 minutes). Or with pasta, or spicy mustard or lemon. They are full of vitamins and protein and good for you too. Very filling.
One of these. You can get them on Craig's List for about 55,000. A bit steep but worth it. Then build your own dozer/shovel for the front so you can plow through the starving masses.
Get to the coast ASAP> You may not know how to hunt or clean your kill, but any idiot can learn how to fish or dig clams. The constant churning action of the ocean and the constant tides also cleans the atmosphere and the land, so coastal regions will have cleaner air long before inland areas.
Water source, food source, heat source....
Learn how to hunt, dress & clean small game like rabbits, squirrels, dogs and cats. Do it now while you have the internets.
Considering the huge amounts of Fukushima debris now washing ashore in Alaska and Hawaii, soon coming to the West Coast, I'm glad I don't live near the coast anymore, but sad the ocean is so polluted.
R94, good suggestion about cigarettes. How long do they last? I don't smoke, but they might be a good investment should I ever need to barter.
I wonder whether tobacco sold in cans or sealed pouches, for pipe smokers and those who roll their own, might stay "fresh" longer than rolled cigarettes.
tabasco sauce, in bottles
Just to let you know, Gridex II starts November 13.