Every gay guy I meet, from San Francisco, is a pretentious snot
I've always loved SF - but it has gone downhill. Walk the streets, and all I smell is urine, it's filthy, homeless people sleeping everywhere, traffic is horrendous. The charm is gone . But everyone living there is so defensive, and refuses to acknowledge this. They think their s_ _t don't smell, and they live in the greatest place ever. Look down on every other city- LA, NYC, Chicago, Miami. Why ?
I agree, but have no answer for you.
Same with the NYC gays.
Because They're paying out the wahoo to live there.
When the great homeless migration moved into San Francisco, I moved back to NYC. The climate is a big draw. Every ghetto has a palm tree and a view.
Because most of them are really from someplace else. Leaving their small minded hick towns and moving to SF was a huge leap for them. They think this makes them superior to others with a similar background. Because their entire persona is wrapped up with where they live, they cant easily acknowledge that things are not as swell as they like to think they are.
Huh, news to me. Guess I'm not paying attention.
I agree with R4. Every city that has major transient populations has the same problem. When people talk about how vapid LA people are, they really mean the fame hungry transplants. New York assholes? Iowans playing a part. San Francisco attracts well intended fringe people. The only major city that will allow them to be as they are is SF (and maybe Portland). So they get there and then have to espouse how perfect the town is because, well, to them it is, and because, they finally have the freedom to be douchebags, out and proud.
RE - By George, I think you've got it !
I think DC is the same way too. A haven for flyovers or a stop along to the way to NY or LA.
I vote for NYC. It's not for everyone, but it is the best city for gay people.
I'm sure a lot of you still live in hickville and are just jealous because you can't afford to live in a world class city like San Francisco.
This last post shows the validity of the the comment above it. They are finally free to be assholes themselves coming from their own "hickville".
While predicting what an insecure asshole would say is not exactly rocket science, R10 pretty much confirms what we've all suspected.
r10 - OP's complaint is not primarily about the CITY of San Francisco -- it's about the attitude of those who live there. There are many awesome major cities (great access to art, museum, opera, dance, theatre, sports arenas) that do not have pretentious little snots who presume to believe they live in Utopia.
I'm supposed to seriously consider the opinion of somebody who can't spell out the word [bold]SHIT[/bold]?
I've always met decent guys there -- except in the Castro, which just feels full of people trying very hard to have a good time.
People have always been nice around the city, and the bars south of Market and the few remaining in the Tenderloin/Polk area can be fun.
Of course I'm not an 'A-gay' -- they'd be as bored with me as I would with them.
People from SF all seem to think that people from the East Coast are all "uptight".
OP is correct, mention you're from LA and they're all tell you how sorry they are for you. Fuck them!
I always refer to their city as "Frisco" just to watch all their heads explode.
It's a laugh riot!
I agree completely..and I only live an hour from SF
San Francisco is hardly a world-class city. More like a provincial town with a small-minded view that is not sophisticated.
Half of the men there are FTMs anyways...
r 17 - I pull the 'Frisco' card too, and watch them have a melt down. Just that should tell you what OP is referring to. I have friends in Chicago, and call it 'Chi -town'. They don't care. Los Angeles - everyone calls it L.A. or
LA , like do -re- me- fa-so-LA. No one cares. But this 'Frisco' BS. It's like your calling their city Fuck Alley.
[quote]Every city that has major transient populations has the same problem.
Yes, but the point is that most large American cities don't *have* major transient populations, or at least not on the scale of SF or on the level of living literally on the streets. NYC at least has SROs for long-term homeless. SF and L.A. have it arguably the worst in this country because of their moderate climates.
Btw I'd say SF has several distinct problems, which I say as a resident. You have the types R4 describes, which can also be found in NYC and L.A. in particular, who are overly proud of themselves for moving to the Big City and overly defense of it. You have the "precious twee" crowd, similar to Portland's, that goes apeshit over stuff like organically grown free-trade coffee served in beakers and whatnot, and disdains even Whole Foods because it's not "local" enough. You have the "techie asshole" crowd, similar to Austin's, that's surgically attached to their iPhones (and it is ALWAYS an iPhone, except for the minority who will argue to the end of the earth that Apple is a "cult" and buy anything BUT an Apple product) and tweets or Tumblr-blogs every single fucking thought that comes to their heads. In the middle are all the gays and their unfortunate subsets, whether it be militant dykes or the leather/piercing queens that embarrass the shit out of the global gay community each year at the Folsom Street Fair.
As you may have surmised by now, I'm getting out of this hellhole as soon as I can secure a job elsewhere.
I moved to San Francisco in 1977 and I'm still here. Sorry, guys, if you hate the place, but I've always loved it.
OP - That sentence did not need any commas.
OP is right. It's why we stay in Tahoe.
R23 doesn't know any better.
Hawaii is full of them. I sometimes wonder how they afford the trip there. Once there they seem to stay though. I guess it is the weather and free food?
I find that the whites up there, and it is white people only, try to 'out liberal' each other.
If you say you are vegetarian they will snub you for not being vegan.
If there is a culture that offends you, you are a low-I.Q. bigot.
If you take buses for transpo they will knock you for not riding a bike.
It is simply too much work socializing with the San Fran crowd.
R22, I meant transient in terms of fleeting or not for the long haul or not a native, not the homeless. That's a totally different conversation. But as a native of Los Angeles, I hear you...
Yup, San Francisco is a hellhole. Don't move here. If you already live here, leave. Spread the word to all your friends. Maybe if enough people leave, the housing prices will slide and I can afford to buy.
OP is from Minnesota.
I lived in San Francisco for years (born and raised in Boston) and loved every minute of it. I still love it when I visit friends there because it's a beautiful and interesting city. I met assholes and I met great people there, just like everywhere else.
The homeless population is an issue but it's an issue in every city or town that provides semi-decent services for the homeless. I've noticed it in Santa Barbara where I now live. Places that refuse to help the homeless may see fewer of them on the street but that level of social irresponsibility doesn't appeal to me as a place to live.
have you not seen the south park episode where they all smell their own farts in san fran?
if you only meet pretentious snots, then that's who you attract and look for. I've met and loved many wonderful gay guys here.
yes, I came from a small New England town, and I'm glad the city has people from all over. if everyone acted the same the city would die, and gentrification is trying to accomplish just that.
as far as seeing homeless people, SF is small in area to begin with, and the downtown is a tiny percentage of area that is hard to avoid.
In contrast, Los Angeles is very expansive, and most of its homeless people stay in Skid Row, which most Angelenos have to go out of their way to visit.
why not consider what life is like for homeless people, or better yet, get involved with an organization that serves homeless people?
at best this country treats people as disposable, especially if they are different in some way. we'd rather flush our troubling images away than tend to them.
San Francisco has many things about it I'd like to see change, but to paraphrase Bill Clinton, there is nothing wrong with San Francisco that can't be fixed by what is right with San Francisco
If something happens to you more than once or twice.
OP, perhaps they're angry with you for your overuse of commas.
I hate to say it but R4 and R6 speak the truth. Native Californians do tend to feel this way about Midwestern transplants. Natives resent the fact that many of the transplants from that region bring their small-mindedness,bigotry, and red-state ideology (or theology) along with them. However, they usually fit in quite well in Orange County.
I don't hate SF but it is a small town and in no way an actual city.
For the love of God, would someone please shit in my mouth?!!!!
[quote]it has gone downhill. Walk the streets, and all I smell is urine, it's filthy, homeless people sleeping everywhere, traffic is horrendous. The charm is gone . But everyone living there is so defensive, and refuses to acknowledge this. They think their s_ _t don't smell, and they live in the greatest place ever
[quote]most of them are really from someplace else. Leaving their small minded hick towns and moving to SF was a huge leap for them. They think this makes them superior to others with a similar background. Because their entire persona is wrapped up with where they live, they cant easily acknowledge that things are not as swell as they like to think they are
describe every big city. A lifelong NYer, I've seen both the downhill turn AND the newbie snobbery, and find myself wondering about a life in the country.
I have no beef in this argument, but R34's post is the height of irony.
All the sissies who played with dolls went to NYC and the queer Eagle Scouts with merit badges went to SF.
Never the twain shall meet.
I lived in SF in the late 70s. Believe it or not, that silly pretentiousness was there then too. And, yes, as someone pointed out, the worst snobs were from somewhere else, usually some small town in the Midwest, and thought they were suddenly "Big City Sophisticates" the moment they stepped off the Greyhound bus.
Went there last two years in a row after 20 year gap. Was expecting the worst but it was still great! Maybe more panhandlers but has just kept pace with all other big cities. Castro not what it used to be, but neither is Key West. More touristy and less quaint. Still really enjoyed myself.
I lived there for 20 years (moved there from Boston) and was always hoping to get to that point where the City became a part of me and I a part of it. This is sort of the core of alot of SF's history: people falling in love with the City and having that moment of finding the one place they will live and eventually die. It is part of the magical folkloric tale that people go there to find. I never achieved that. By the time I left I felt that the dream of SF had become a reality of overpriced real estate, an amzingly aggressive homeless situation that NO ONE was doing anything about and a population overrun with the worst kind of rude Yuppie spawns. Oh and a crazy amount of middle class heroin/crystal meth addicts. Of course I also was there during the worst of the AIDS nightmare so it had become haunted by hundreds of ghosts. So I left and live back East now. I miss the idea of SF but not the actuality.
Interesting take, R28. This is what people who are desperate for approval devolve to. It's sad that they are put into that position of patheticness.
It's the butt plugs.
Once removed, they mellow out.
One thing to keep in mind, OP, is the the MAJORITY of gay guys anywhere are pretentious snots/airheads/dumbasses/etc. -- just as the majority of ALL PEOPLE are those things. I wish you luck in finding quality friends.
My advice? Stay clear of bars. Any bars. All bars. They attract certain kinds of homo we're all better off without.
Bengali in Platforms
The average length of time gay men live in SF is just short of 5 years. That says it all.
I cry when I think about Armistead Maupin's trashy bf making him move to Santa Fe. Who would ever want to leave gorgeous SF?
Me. I would want to leave "gorgeous SF." It's a ridiculous city. What OP says is correct.
San Francisco is probably the worst place I've ever lived.
And this is what continues to segregate the good old USA from actually integrating ALL people.
What it says R49, is nobody can afford to live there but the people who own property.
Once upon a time there were three little girls who went to the police academy...two in Los Angeles, the other in San Francisco. And the one from San Francisco was such a pretentious snot, I assigned her very hazardous duties in the hope that she'd get shot in the head.
I hope your happy, you made Scott MacKenzie so sad that he killed himself.
Now the "Summer of Love" is officially dead.
He was struggling for two years with an auto-immune disorder.
[quote]He was struggling for two years with an auto-immune disorder.
I read that as auto-tune disorder and was getting pissed.
It always cracked me up how superior the SF denizens were. All at the same time keeping their "darkies" in the East Bay. Real progressive, uh huh... Just like NYC - "Oh we're so racially integrated, at least we keep our blacks on the same ISLAND as ourselves, just as long as they stay above 96th street!" This is why Atlanta is the #1 gay city in America (look it up) - it is a truly integrated town, puts its money where its mouth is.
San Francisco born and raised (reared?:), and I can't stand the place anymore. As a kid in the 70s I didn't think I'd ever want to leave it. That was before the Milk-Moscone murders, and the shift in power to DiFi and her shady backers from which the place has never recovered.
It's entirely fitting that the remake of " The Invasion of the Bodysnatchers" was filmed there.
Love him or hate him, Jim Goad nailed it.
I still love SF. Though I only experience it on 4-7 day visits, so maybe it's easier to put aside the negatives. And, I'm usually with people I like, so I can ignore any pretentiousness. And, I have met very nice locals. So, still love, it, but my experience may be narrow.
Rock Hudson took it up the bum there.
[quote]I still love SF. Though I only experience it on 4-7 day visits, so maybe it's easier to put aside the negatives. And, I'm usually with people I like, so I can ignore any pretentiousness. And, I have met very nice locals. So, still love, it, but my experience may be narrow.
I feel the same way -- great city for a vacation or business trip -- though I don't care for the Castro.
SF did not put all its minorities in the East Bay. What a strange thing to say.
SF is simply better than where you live.
Move to the upper east coast. Most of the guys here are just snots.
My boyfriend and I went to SF for vacation for six days. Went out a lot to gay bars and clubs and everyone seemed really friendly for the most part.
I'm not rejecting the idea that SF gays are snotty and pretentious, but didn't see much of it as a tourist.
Anyone who gives a shit whether you want to call it "Frisco" or "San FranSuzy" is an idiot. I can't even imagine a reason to start a conversation with someone like that.
Call it whatever you like.
Anyone who claims that San Francisco is a world-class city is delusional. LA is more "world-class" than S.F. and LA isn't close to "world-class." San Francisco is only 800,000 people, hardly has an arts scene, and is really provincial, in many ways. Plus, for a city that claims to be "sophisticated", the locals, including the gay community, dress like crap. No sense of individual style.
There are only about five true "world-class" cities: NY, London, Paris, Tokyo and, perhaps Berlin.
You can find pretentiousness in any major city, but SF folks have a sense of "specialness" that's beyond annoying. I like to visit there, but couldn't live there. People who leave often talk about a sense of not imagining that they could live anywhere elese until they actually leave and then the insularity and limitations become evident.
I moved there in 1978 and left 15 years later. It always billed itself as a place for nonconformist but one had to conform quick in order to get the rent together.
The place sure pales compared to new York or even LA really.
"This is why Atlanta is the #1 gay city in America..."
Only long after we burned it to the ground.
Far too many tattoos...horrible.
There is a South Park episode about this. SF guys actually smell their own farts in it. Or maybe it's the Simpsons. One of the two. And they don't have smog there, they have smug.
I'm always drunk in San Francisco......
I'm never feeling any pain.
But tell me, why does San Francisco,
just like a lover's kiss, go straight to my brain?
I've known for the last 8 months that I'm moving to SF next year.
I've been trying for the past year up until now to make some friends out there before moving. I'm moving for personal reasons that have to do with taking care of a sick family member, and my biggest fear was that I wouldn't fit in there.
The following exchange sums up my attempts at making friendly conversation with guys from SF:
--ME: Hi there! You have a beautiful dog! Is she a Mastiff? I have a large breed dog too and am moving there next year and was wondering the best dog parks that welcome large dogs. Hope your day's going well, man.
--HIM: Your pics are cute, and you kind of look like a redneck Christian Bale, but let's both be honest; we're not a match. Happy hunting.
--ME: Aw thanks man, I take that as a compliment. One of my students says I remind him of Christian Bale too, thanks for the ego boost! Anyway, I don't think we're each others' "type" either, I just thought ya looked friendly and I saw your dog pics and I truly was just wondering where the good dog parks are for big dogs. I have a rather large Boxer and she's pretty boisterous and playful.
--HIM: Look I tried to be friendly and patient, I'm not interested. I wish you luck, don't write again, and take some advice and lose the ball caps, the cowboy boots and the beard.
...that was actually one of the more polite ones.
The vast majority of the guys I've been trying to talk to ignore me, as if I was asking for spare change on a street corner. And the ones who do respond are pretty much like the guy above, and sadly the nicest thing I was told was I "should really consider doing bear porn."
And then there was a small group of people who would excitedly respond, show great interest, and then totally disappear.
I get talked down to like I know nothing about California in general, got yelled at for voting for Rick Perry (ironically I work for a pretty well known Democratic politician here in Texas), and was told I was lying about where I went to college.
My favorite was being accused of being a member of the Klan -not outright... I was asked if it's hard to type with the white sheet over my face- and this same person a second earlier told me to avoid "The Ghetto" and proceeded to tell me how "scary" Oakland is. Moreso, the guy had "NO ASIANS" written in caps in his profile. And besides all those tragic punchlines of this latte liberal is the added fact that my mother's maiden name happens to be Goldfarb.
If this were just a couple of experiences I'd ignore it. But it was ALL but two of the guys I've talked to.
So, it WAS a fear that I wouldn't fit in there. It's no longer a fear. I'm GLAD I don't fit in and save for the two guys who were genuinely warm guys...both of whom are SF natives (I'm sensing a theme with transplants, just like jerky New Yorkers... the smaller the town the transplant is from in NYC the jerkier they are. NYC natives are pretty freakin cool in my experience), I not only am glad I don't fit in, but I'm not even remotely INTERESTED in fitting in.
I fully expect to get absolutely lambasted for this posting: I'm noticing a theme in online conversations criticizing SF: people don't wanna hear the truth. When it comes to a gay "community" I've never encountered such racist, closed minded, narcissistic idiots in my life.
When my grandpa passes, I'm selling the place and moving back up to Ann Arbor where I went to school: a GENUINELY liberal place.
And ironically (Oh how San Franciscans love their 'irony' with usually zero idea of what it even means) I DO fit in. I now already have bad feelings about an entire city full of people who share my sexual orientation. The irony is that I fit in now because I now possess a bigotry against a group: gay San Franciscans.
But I'm not patting my back at how open minded I am at night:Even though I think it's got merit, I'm ashamed to feel this way.So will take my truck to Sacramento on weekends, and you can berate me for my carbon footprint even though you treat "the other" as peasants.
r77, selling a house in the Bay Area? Wow, adopt me! On second thought, Ann Arbor, maybe not.
Y'all have vastly different experience than mine. We moved to Berkeley a year ago from LA. Love the East Bay. Love the city. Prefer The Castro to pretty boy WeHo. Enjoy the various neighborhoods in the city. The progressiveness of the area is so appealing. It is fun to satire hoe Berkeley some of the Berkeley people can be.
San Francisco has had that snotty reputation going back 100 years. Its not something new or just gays. It stared when there was a big influx with wealthy people from Chicago.
LA is not like that except for Hollywood / West Hollywood wanna-bes from Podunk USA.
New Yorkers are less snotty but more rude. They call it being honest, I call it tacky. Also the most E-Fem guys I have ever seen.
Gay Tops moved to SF, Bottoms went to LA and queens went to New York city.
Washington DC takes the cake for douchiest gays in the country.
I was born in San Francisco. So was my mum. I'm sure there were other natives/second-gen natives, but I never met one. Everyone else was a ship-in from another State or country.
The lovely city of my youth was already degenerating into a third-world nightmare when I left to move overseas. I returned once many years ago. It was heartbreaking to see how far the decay had progressed.
The San Francisco I left my heart in exists only in my memories.
To poster 77.... THANK GOD. Not that you have talked to douchebags, but was starting to think that I suddenly got ugly and boring overnight. I'm glad it's not just me!
I'm moving there after this Christmas for work and have been trying to make friends as well. I gave up.
One guy told me I have the "wrong look" to even socialize with. lol. The full message was so ridiculous I thought it was a joke! I didn't realize someone could be THAT self absorbed, and I've lived in New York, granted the Bronx which in my experience is a little friendlier than Manhattan, and moved there from Louisiana and everyone there thought I was "charming." I'm not saying I'm "mr. catch of the year" or something, but I never went dateless in New York.
I've visited San Francisco in the past to visit friends and the guys in the bars just stared at me like I was about to punch them any second, the way a right wing wacko stares at a Muslim lady at the airport. I used to box but I'm hardly "mr. scary lookin."
But the online interactions have pretty much been depressing but once I got over the "I'm not gonna have any friends there" thing I realized how freakin funny they were!
But on a truly depressing note, I too, and keep in mind I'm a native Southerner and my family in Louisiana goes back four generations... I too can't get over the racism! From people who call themselves "progressives."
If i was to sum up what the gay dudes there are like (I also think it's just the transplants... TOTALLY agreed there)... they remind me of that Penelope character Kristen Wiig played on Saturday Night Live.
If you tell a gay San Franciscan you're a vegetarian, they're a vegan. If you tell them you're a vegan, they will "out vegan" you in some way. So I channel Penelope making fun of them and usualy just say something like "yeah well I invented veganism.... I actually invented vegetables..." Etc.
I've never met cunty queens like the ones I met in SF. Oddly, they all had girlfriends and wobbly heterosexual pursuits.
Reply to [R20]
Are you saying FTM trans aren't real men? Not good enough for you, at least?
So, as openly gay and loving toward men as a man could be, that being born female, makes HIM not a real man, suitable for you? I'm sure.
You're an ass.
I deserve to be a gay dude who wants to be loved by dudes just as much as another other gay guy out there who was born with a penis.
I'm confused, R85. Do you have a penis or not?
I love the city, hate what the gay population has become here. The good, non-warped ones clique up and stay out of the public gay scene, and we're left with status queens, barflies and druggies all seeking relief or whatever they're seeking. All I know is that where there's sexy, you can bet there's crazy, and goddamned if they aren't impressed with themselves. And the same goes for the gay organizational scene, which is an hilarious, absurd pageant. I can't tell you how many times I've rolled my eyes at how impressed SF queens were with themselves and their little scene here, when it's just the same thing as everywhere else with more people doing it.
And when I say extremes, I mean extremes. So much booze. So so so so much booze. And I came here thinking crystal was going out of fashion, but there's still a major PNP scene here, and we're talking slamming the stuff. Serious stuff, and much crazy around here as a result. Sad to watch.
As much as I bitch about the above, it's just because I am just so disappointed. Now, I stick with the food, the landscape, the creativity, the willingness to participate, the weather, the openness to new things, the fact that it's the smallest international city I know of and its proximity to so many other great places.
My friend has lived there 15 yrs. I'd visit one or two times a year but I stopped going. The city is disgusting now. The freaks doing meth on the streets, urine on sidewalks, homelessness, the stench on BART. Its really sad to watch it go downhill. She pays $3000.00/mo for 1 bedroom. Wants to move...but can't afford it and she makes decent $.
I have never had a San Francisco gay, but surely they can't be as bad as New York gays or [gasp] European gays.
LA gays are usually laid back and polite. Date one of those instead.
I've lived in LA, SF, and NY. In SF now, and I can't stand it, for all of the 20 years I e been here. Can't wait to get back to LA.
[quote]Rock Hudson took it up the bum there.
Honey, Rock Hudson took it up the bum EVERYWHERE. If there is a city he visited, it's also a city he got fucked in.
[quote]LA gays are usually laid back and polite.
LA gays polite??? Oh, my sides!
LA guys polite and laid-back????
I met a couple of guys from SF while on vacation several years ago. I thought that they were nice, until they started intimating how empty my life must be because I didn't live in THE CITY. And then they started explaining their bizarre social caste of A, B, C, and D-list bear cliques. It was like high school all over again. I left feeling sorry for them.
Jerry Stearns is a lovely guy. Sweet, sexy spiritual man.
The streets are gross
The truth about San Francisco is that it's not a very great city by any measure. It gets huge free passes on a lot of things because of wealthy residents and tree huggy liberal bullshit, but none of it was barely true. Free love radicals? Nope, homeless trash in the park. The castro a center of gay rights and history? Nope, the ugliest of hipster neighborhoods with all of the charm of a bar at last call. Etc.
Interesting thread with a lot of perspectives, all of which seem valid.
I love San Francisco and have been going there 2 or 3 times a year for business or vacation since the early 1990s (well after the first wave of AIDS ravaged the gay community).
The first big change I remember was the tech boom of the late 1990s; South of Market started to become a desirable address and a lot of my broke-artsy friends had a harder time making a go of it.
Then I spent Christmas there after 9/11 and saw how important tourism was to the town -- few Americans were traveling that holiday season and no Asians were coming over at all. I got a corner suite at the St. Francis for $99. The hotel was empty, and it seemed to take a couple of years for San Francisco to get its tourist bearings back.
But the biggest change has been in the last three years. The tech bro scene seems to have altered the city more or less for good in the foreseeable future. Polk Street is a living example of that --it used to be a nicely seedy district of gay bars, cheap restaurants, bookshops and a punk club or two. Now it's all Walgreens and awful clubs catering to twentysomething bros and the girls who like them.
A friend of mine has held on to a small apartment near Church and Market for 20 years now; it's still rent controlled and he knows he'll be Ellis Act-ed out of there as soon as the landlord can figure out how to do it. The studio apartment below his just rented for $4000/month.
To get back to the topic: I've never found the guys there to be pretentious snots, but I've probably spent less time in the Castro than I have in other neighborhoods, and I've certainly never been involved in the greater social world there.
R50...Maupin moved back.
[quote]Maupin moved back.
"Somebody put a note on my Facebook page," said Armistead Maupin on Wednesday, "saying, 'The town isn't the same without you.' " It was time to share the news: The novelist, famous first as creator of "Tales of the City," and husband Christopher Turner, who two years ago decided to move to Santa Fe, are back for good. They're renting a ground-floor flat in a Castro cottage, both "craving village life again," said Maupin.
They're going to keep their house in Santa Fe "because we love it, putting it up on Airbnb in hopes, of course, that it will pay for our tiny SF apartment." They returned "because we were missing the city of our hearts, and we both kind of admitted it at the same time. ... We absolutely adore the wild nature of our home in the desert, but it's not enough. So if we're lucky, we'll be able to have both things."