OP, are your sales a little slow this month? Trying to drum up some business? I know you can do it. You're a self-starter.
[quote] I'm torn between a gently used Lexus ES or a new Buick Verano
are you on drugs? Seriously. Why would you even consider a buick. Do they even make them still? I guess they do if you want one.
A Lexus is just a Buick in a Japanese skin. Bland, boring, and suburban (as a perjorative) to the core. If you think Toyotas are a thrill-a-minute driver's dream, you'll LOVE a Lexus!
Bengali in Platforms
perjorative Oh Dear.
The leading funeral home here has switched its entire fleet of "bereavement vehicles" to Lexi -- no more Cadillacs after 50 years of business.
I wouldn't want you to drive a mortician's car, OP.
And yet you have a Pinto face, OP.
Thank you for catching that, r5. I have bludgeoned my right index finger as an act of contrition.
Bengali in Platforms
Time for an abortion.
To be fair, Buicks have improved dramatically over the past four or five years, and many of the current models are heavily based on GM's European sedans, which are an order of magnitude better than anything they've ever produced stateside. That said, a Verano is nothing more than a gussied-up Chevy Cruze, and that car has gotten plenty of complaints about reliability and lack of a quality fear. If you're getting a Buick, I'd get a Regal, specifically one of the new turbocharged models, which are quick and also have great fuel economy. Do NOT get either car with GM's awful corporate four-banger engine (the 2.4L direct-injected I4 they've had around forever).
Also, the Verano in a different size category altogether versus the Lexus ES -- and speaking of gussied-up proletarian cars, an ES is merely a slightly upgraded Camry. It's being redesigned for 2013, and for the worse; it'll now be upsized substantially built on the same platform as a Toyota Avalon, which sizewise is on par with a Lincoln Town Car.
Really, OP, even if you're an eldergay (and judging by your selection of the most boring Lexus and a Buick, I'd say that's a given), you can do better than either of these cars. Try a gently used BMW 335i or Benz C350; the 335i was redesigned for 2012, so you can get some great deals on the 2011 and earlier models. It's pretty fucking powerful, though, thanks to a twin-turbo 300hp engine; as long as you skip the sport package, it should drive smoothly as well, and you'll get A LOT more cred than you will from buying either an ES or a Verano (and btw I seriously doubt the Verano will be around for long - GM has failed on every previous occasion to produce a successful upper-end compact sedan, starting with the disastrous Cadillac Cimarron 30 years ago).
Anyway, instead of a "gently-used" ES, and assuming you insist on something boring, I'd personally get a new 2012 or 2013 Camry XLE hybrid, which is not only loaded with just about every option available on a Lexus, but also gets 43mpg in the city and 40 or so on the highway (for only an extra $1,000 or so above the regular Camry price).
You want the lady from Dynasty? She must be like 300 years old by now
Lexus VS Buick???? At least compare it to a car in the same ball park OP.
Like Lexus VS Acura or Buick VS Hyundai.
What do you think of the new Acuras?
I like Acura, better than Lexus, have had both.
I have an old Acura.
R15, why do you like Acura better? Is the ride as smooth as Lexus? Which car has the higher maintenance/repair costs?
I bought a new buick skylark back in 1984 - the piece of shit car fell apart at 40,000 miles.
The new Cadillacs are "piece of shit cars" and the Buicks are the same mechanical platform without the "luxury"......
The new cadillac looks fabulous!
Lexus: The car drug dealers drive.
My experience, the Acura is dramatically cheaper to maintain.
The Lexus dealership, for me, while licking my ass, are stealing the wallet.
I've had two Lexus RXs and an Acura MDX and an RL.
The Acura RL was probably my favorite car ever. I hated to see the lease go.
I drive an Infiniti M37x now. close second to the RL. I also drive a BMW and smooth is not in the description, most fun to drive though.
Best way, r17 is to do some test drives.
Why people keep buying Toyota products with their recall history is beyond me. They just had another major one last week.
Get an Infiniti or Acura if you want Japanese, otherwise BMW or Mercedes or Cadillac.
Nissan has a marketing problem. They've become the car for coloreds and are losing business.
The quality of materials, wood and leather, used in a Lexus, are considerably higher than Acura, even higher that Mercedes in some respects.
Cadillacs and Lincolns use Dollarama quality materials.
Technically, Lexus is a generation behind the Germans. Buick, on the other hand, still builds cars like it is 1985.
I'm discouraged to hear about the high maintenance costs for Lexus, as posters on previous threads have said they are much less than Mercedes upkeep. I'll never own another Mercedes--if you as much as pull onto the dealership lot, it costs you $500.
I owned a Honda Accord when I was younger, and I never had a problem with that car. I'm hoping Acura would give me a little more luxury, and low maintenance/repair costs.
My buddy is a service director for the big local Honda dealership and he snickers at the "new" Acura ISX and calls it a Civic for morons with too much money.
I've had two Maximas, and old style Altima and a G35 and have to say (though I loathed that Altima), I never paid a single penny more than standard mainenance. It was a bit high on the Infiniti at the 30K intervals, but not crazy high. Only gripes were the mpg of the Infiniti (20 mpg ALWAYS) and a stupid, stupid wiring situation with the radio/CD/Air.
I am now at the end of the G35's life and cannot decide what I want. I am bored with Nissan, as mechanically superior as I have found them to be.
OP = Filipino
My friend has a Lexus SUV. The lights went out on a running board and she was going to skip the repair. Unfortunately it is connected to the electrical system and both running boards have to be replaced. 1500.00 cost.
I'm sorry, but you can't possibly rave about a car's reliability unless you've owned one past the point of warranty expiration. I have. In my experience, Benzes are the most expensive to maintain, followed by Audi (which seems to both break down the most and have the shittiest customer service), followed by BMW. Lexus maintenance costs a fortune if done at the dealership, but they're so well-made that repair visits are rare even north of 100,000 miles.
Based on friend experiences, the worst cars, mechanically speaking, are Porsche and Land Rover BY FAR.
R29: the only car that will keep you happy if you love your G35 but don't want another one is a 335i. Either that or wait for the upcoming new BMW M3.
All premium cars are expensive to fix.....It is called back door billing. Only part of the profit they make, is in the actually sale, repairs are also a big part of their profit margins.
With the exception of the RL, ALL Acuras are over decorated Hondas.
The idea is to buy a car that spends little time in the repair shop. Who cares if the repairs are half as much if you are in the repair shop 10 times as often?
Twelve year old Audi. Bought new. Repairs have not been outrageous.
All premium cars cost more to repair than the cheaper models. Don't judge a whole car line off one car. Variations exist within the range.
I recommend the Infiniti G37x if you like to drive. The handling is similar to the 3 series at 25% less cost. A bit more comfortable ride for the passengers than the BMW.
However, I just had a relatively minor fender bender and the cost of repair was $2,000.
I just bought an Escalade and I"ve never been happier with a car.
The Verano is one of the most awkward looking cars I've seen of late. The awkward little upkick in the C-pillar and the non-working vent windows are proof that it was adapted from another platform (the Chevy Cruze IIRC) and rushed to the market to lower Buick's fuel economy average.
I just compared Acuras and Hondas, and the entry-level Acuras have no engine power. The Honda Accord EX is more powerful, but costs the same as an Acura. I don't know what to do?
Is the Infiniti G37x worth the extra money and maintenance costs? It's a lot more attractive than a Honda or Acura.
I love my G37. I'm thinking of giving it a one-year birthday party.
No you want a Mercedes.
The song is not "Do You want to ride in my Mercedes boy?"
Should I get AWD?
AWD if you are going off road. AWD only helps when you are launching a vehicle from stop. AWD does not not make it stop any faster or avoid accidents in any ways. AWD is only a safety issue when you are trying to drive through a river of crocodiles and don't want to get stuck.
[quote]I just compared Acuras and Hondas, and the entry-level Acuras have no engine power. The Honda Accord EX is more powerful, but costs the same as an Acura. I don't know what to do?
The ILX is a piece of crap and has been savaged by car reviewers. It's a reskinned Civic and obviously so, and they share the same engine. The new Accord looks just like the old Accord, so I'd avoid it as well unless you want to be driving the most boring mid-size car imaginable.
Btw the trend these days is less emphasis on power and more on fuel economy. You might want to check out the newly redesigned Altima, which shares a platform with the next G37 (due out later this year) and is available with a slightly smaller version of the same engine.
Btw R43 has obviously never lived in a winter climate. AWD cars are *vastly* superior to any other in such conditions, particularly when equipped with snow tires.
Awd is great to have snowy weather in the winter.
First of all, I'm not an eldergay. I'm only 36. Oh, wait...
Anyway, this thread got me thinking about an Acura. Maybe an RL or TL?
OP, I'd say both the RL and TL have issues. The RL is the supposed flagship of the line, designed initially to compete with the Lexus LS and Infiniti Q, but it really hasn't kept up, mainly because Honda steadfastly refused to develop a V-8 or 8-cylinder engine like the competition did. Consequently, it's always been underpowered in contrast, and for the past decade a poor seller. Also, it's about to be redesigned; Acura hasn't released exact specs yet, but the 2013 RLX will be heavily based on a preview shown at auto shows this year; link is below. The car will still have a six-cylinder but *finally* get some much needed horsepower, with an engine estimated at 370hp in all-wheel-drive mode.
As for the TL, it's butt-ugly -- literally. I think it has possibly the most unattractive rear-end of any car currently made. If I was buying an entry-level luxury car in the $35K-$45K range, I'd get a BMW 3-series (probably a 328i; a 335i is a bit beyond that range) or Audi A4 long before an Acura TL.
Believe it or not, you might want to take a look at the RDX, their mini-SUV. It's been redesigned for 2013 (though unlike the RL it's already in showrooms) and easily holds its own against much more expensive competition like the BMW X3. This year it gets a 275 hp six-cylinder instead of the unusual (for Honda/Acura) four-cylinder turbo it had in the past, but both performance numbers and fuel economy have now improved substantially. You can get one fully equipped for about $35K.
R47, I really enjoy your input. A Japanese car is attractive to me because I want rock-solid reliability. It doesn't have to be super-fast. I value good handling over pure speed, and comfort over technology.
What about the Genesis or Equus?
Thanks, OP! I'll say that Acuras do tend to emphasize technology more than most though, as do Hondas. Btw pretty much all Honda/Acura sporty cars have a reputation of handling extremely well, even the RDX (which drives like a sports sedan - I test-drove one a couple of years ago and was extremely impressed, but decided to go with a BMW coupe instead). Unfortunately Honda (not Acura) hasn't been up to par lately; the new Civic, redesigned last year, is considered inferior to the previous model (and for the first time in over 20 years, Consumer Reports put it on its "avoid" list), and the new 2013 Accord is almost completely unchanged from the previous model.
Btw you might check out a TSX as well. I'd say it looks a lot better than the TL (subjective, I know), and they have strong resale value, too.
If wishes were horses we'd all be going horseback riding...............
I've had my Lexus for 12 years with minor problems. My other car is a brand new Prius. I like them both.
Not the OP, but I have been thinking about getting the Lexus hybrid hatchback (gussied up prius minus 10mpg). This would be my first new car, and it's hard to figure out which car would be reliable, have decent mileage and fancy-ish.
R53, I think that Lexus hybrid is being discontinued after the current model year. It never really caught on, plus Lexus is introducing a hybrid version of the much larger ES sedan that gets even better gas mileage (along with a refresh of the RX hybrid SUV, still Lexus's biggest seller).
I've had the CT for about 6 months now. Gets 44 to 46 mpg and handles quite nice.
But do test drive it because it sits very low to the ground, like a go-cart so you can't see where your front and rear bumpers are. Also a bit of a blind spot on your rear right side.
Fit and finish are excellent. The backup camera is very handy.
If you want to have a low carbon footprint, r53, buy a well cared for used Lexus that isn't a hybrid, and drive it until the wheels fall off. Call the dealer and tell them you're looking for a CPO IS 250 coming off a lease.
My current car is 14 year old Buick that used to be driven by an old lady. I bought it for cheap from her family after she died, more as a favor to help them out. I plan on driving it till the wheels fall off, which could be anytime now or in a couple of years. That's why I've been trying to keep an eye out for a good new car. I was thinking about getting a mini cooper originally, but I'm also saving up for a house, so trying to be practical about getting a car with very good mileage. I'm not a big driver, or a speed freak, but I don't want something too boring either.
R56, how much would a used IS 250 with low miles cost? Do you recommend an IS 250 vs. IS 350 vs. ES 350?
It seems like Lexus is the best car for the money, with the least amount of mechanical problems. Lexus maintenance/repair is less than Mercedes and BMW, isn't it? How much less?
R49 beat me to it. In Asia the Equus is consider top of the line. If you are not so label obsessed you should really check it out they are beautiful cars.
And watch a really hot guy review the car
The Hyundai Equus is the Genesis with a few thousand in extras at 20K more. It bombed in the USA and Europe. It is not anywhere near a true luxury car, like a Mercedes or BMW. What a joke to claim otherwise.
Evangelical Christian, Korean Game Show Hosts drive the Equus. Only in Asia, the big dollar store factory, would such a mechanical abomination be considered a luxury car.
It is also made by a company which refuses to give its Gay employees health benefits....the only major automotive company left in the world which still refuses this.
A Hyundai is a tarted up Kubota riding lawnmower!
r61, actually Equus sales are on the upswing. Hyundai wisely kept the volume low. But I am disappointed to hear about their POV of bennies for same-sex couples who work for them...
Upswing from Zero sales if you want to get technical. So selling 1 car is an increase in sales. I sat in a new Equus, they are the Genesis model with new chrome and thicker leather. That is it. Same engine, same interior. WAY too expensive for what you get. Plus Hyundais lose resale value faster than any other major brand.
The Volvo S60 and Acura TL are the only luxury vehicles that passed the most recent safety test by the insurance institute. I have a Volvo and although it might not have the cache of other cars, it is comfortable and reliable.
Where is the best place to buy a slightly used Lexus? I like the idea of the Certified Pre-Owned program that the dealerships offer, but I know that you pay more for it. Would you go the CPO route?
The majority of the original 1989 Lexus LS400s built, are still on the road today. BMW and Acura can't make that claim.
Mercedes are different, because of the prestige factor. People dump tons of money into the cars, to keep them running for years. A lot of people are enamored with the idea of driving a vintage Mercedes.
R53, if you want a low carbon footprint, you shouldn't be driving a ten-year-old car with older emissions standards. The lowest footprints are on all-electric vehicles, as well as ULEV (ultra-low vehicle emissions) cars (all Hondas and Acuras are rated as such).
R59, a Lexus is the "best car for the money" only in the context of being the most reliable. Its IS model is designed to be a sporty sedan in the vein of the BMW 3-series and Infiniti G37. However, Lexus has yet to come up with an IS variant that can compete with either on a performance level. Also, the 3-series has some of the best resale values of any car on the market. Btw the difference between the IS 250 and 350 is engine; the 250 has a four-cylinder that's, in my opinion, underpowered. The 350 is much quicker, but not on par with a 335i or G37.
R60 is insane (and R61 is correct). The Equus and Genesis have both roundly failed long-term testing by the major automotive mags, and neither comes remotely close to the quality or luxury benchmarks set by Lexus and its ilk.
R65, NIHHS crash-test results aren't really much of a reason to buy a car for two reasons: 1) you're very unlikely to have a serious accident, period, and 2) if you do it's unlikely to be one of the ones they test, specifically a head-on collision. Also, the tests aren't pass/fail; they're rated on a five-star ranking system, and only cars that get one- or two-star ratings in important areas (which few do) genuinely fail. Finally, those crash-test results ALL assume that everyone in the car is unbelted, which these days is highly unusual in real-life situations, at least in the Western world. Auto deaths on a per-capita basis are at by far an all-time low, thanks primarily to seatbelts and airbags (but also increased emphasis on combating drunk driving).
R66, the best place to buy a used Lexus is a Lexus store, but like you said, they charge the most, particularly for a CPO vehicle. Honestly, you probably don't even need to go the CPO route with a Lexus; just take it to a mechanic to make sure it's never been wrecked (and do NOT trust Carfax statements in that regard - I know for certain that many body shops never report damage to Carfax, which is a voluntary service, including a car of my own which sustained nearly $15K in damage but was later sold not only as a CPO vehicle, but also "Carfax-verified accident-free"). Anyway, I've owned one Lexus that I bought from an individual (and had a mechanic check), and it ran perfectly even with over 90,000 miles on the odometer; it cost thousands less than a dealer would've charged, and the only work it ever needed was a standard 120,000-mile service.
R67, I question both of your claims, particularly since I know several people with Benzes that are over 20 years old and rarely need much in the way of service. Their old diesels in particular last forever, even if they're loud as hell (and slow as molasses). I see no reason why an Acura wouldn't still be on the road 23 years later; Toyotas are roughly on par with Hondas reliability-wise, as are Acuras vs. Lexuses.
Still, R68, the Lexus IS performed extremely poorly in those new IHSTA tests. The American-pillar collapsed and the wheel was pushed into the passenger compartment sufficiently to trap the driver's feet.
Does anybody here have an Audi A4? Do you recommend them? Are they expensive to maintain?
I'm looking for a car in the $30,000-37,000 range that runs like a dream and doesn't cost a fortune to maintain. Any suggestions?
I'm driving a LS 460 right now, a 2011, and my last car before it was a 2009 BMW 745. Although I like the aesthetics of the BMW better, Lexus wins overall, hands down.
I owned a 2009 Lexus IS 350 for 3 years, traded it in near lease end for a 2012 Acura TL 5 months ago. Both are great cars. The Acura is a substantially larger car with more room for backseat passengers. I felt the Lexus was faster off the line and felt lighter, so I would recommend that you do a test drive to get the best impression. Both cars have rides that are on the firm side; my Acura has larger wheels so that always has some effect on the ride. The Lexus had a slightly smoother ride. The Acura has great technology for the money, while the Lexus has a smidgen more refinement. I'm an audiophile and the Acura's ELS sound system is top notch, great bluetooth capability and the navigation system is one of the industry's best. Looks are subjective, of course, but Acura addressed some of the objections to the large, distracting grill of the 2009 redesign with a freshened look for 2012 that I find appealing. Lexus has redesigned the entire line of cars over the last 2 years (with the exception of the IS that was released in 2006), and will be restyling the IS model by 2014. Keep that in mind if you are planning a purchase. Lastly, in my experience, the Acura dealership is more likely to give you a good deal on a price.
R74, are Acuras fairly inexpensive to maintain? I used to have a Honda that was very inexpensive to service.
Do people still want the technology packages? It seems like you wouldn't need one if you have a smartphone, which does everything now.
Fuck Lexus, get a Cadillac.
Park it anywhere and everybody will be looking at YOU not that boring ass Lexus you're parked next to.
The perfect luxury car for DL attention whores.
The Lexus will go DOWN in value while you own it.
The Cadillac will go UP in value while you own it.
[quote] and the navigation system is one of the industry's best
Are they still asking ridiculous prices for these nav systems and bundling them with the audio systems and backup camera?
I really don't want to pay a car company when I can use my phone for navigation or buy a much lower cost after-market gps. I like the good audio systems and I like the backup cameras, but I really feel taken advantage of when the car companies bundle nav with them
Are you a realtor in Texas with "big hair."
r75, not sure about maintenance as I've had the Acura 5 months and the car has not been scheduled for a visit yet. The Lexus had no problems during my 3 year experience with the car, and I prepaid for all the maintenance visits in the lease. I have a smartphone with navigation, as I'm sure most who look in this segment do, but I prefer being able to look at the map/navigation screen in the car while driving. Not easy to do safely with your smartphone.
FYI R68 the Lexus IS250 does not have a 4cyl engine, it has a 2.5 6cyl engine producing 204 hp.
For everyone else: I have a 2011 IS250 and I love the car. I had an Acura before this which was a very nice car, but the Lexus beats the Acura in every category. Both are great cars. The Lexus is nicer. The navigation in the Lexus is supreme, better than even Mercedes. The AWD is unbelievable in the snow. Great car, and the dealer thru in full service and maintenance for the duration of the lease. The Acura was cheap to maintain for the time I had it. The only trouble the car had was with the rear brakes. The car had 3 sets of rear brakes in the time I had it which is abnormal. At 10,000 miles the car needed rear brakes. I complained to the dealer and then Honda America. Both did nothing. After a complaint to BBB and NHTSA Honda America finally refunded the money. This I learned was a defect in the brake pads on the Acura TSX as well as the same year Honda Accord. The next time the service manager simply knew just to replace the brakes and not rehash the drama. But the way it was handled did give me a reason to venture to the Lexus dealer, after owning 2 Acuras.
Buy the Lexus.
I'm close to pulling the trigger on an ATS. Check those out, OP.
I want a Desoto. I saw one today, late 50s, with fins that reach halfway to the sky. Wow! What a beautiful car!
OP here. I went to an auto show and sat in a Buick Verano. I liked it, but I couldn't get out of it very easily. Now I'm thinking about a gently used Buick Lucerne.
People saying Buick still builds cars likes it's 1985 need to read a few car magazines. Very little separates new cars in terms of quality today. Oddly enough, high end cars such as BMW tend to have poorer quality ratings, while the opposite about them is perceived.
OP - test drive different cars. Any car guy will tell you that now the main differences amongst vehicles are subjective, such as fit and finish, use of materials and comfort. Reliability and maintenance aren't much of an issue for most brands (except for Dodge/Chrysler, which is starting to rate better). With a new car, you get the benefit of a full warranty, if you're worried.
My car mags don't lie.
The Verano has an interesting cockpit but a bland looking body.
r84 - I am r1 of this thread. Laughing and still quite young. Thanks for thinking of me.
For what it's worth, a Toyota will do for the OP.
R1/R88, you still-quite-young thing you, people are POSTING on the thread I linked to (and started as a joke, mainly for you).
See, things are scarier than we realized.
And I drive a beat-up Chevy because I live "in the city" and park on the street. Luxury to me is sitting on a seat without broken glass from an attempted theft.
[quote] The navigation in the Lexus is supreme, better than even Mercedes.
City gal gave up my car many years ago. What does this mean?
Dearest r89/84, things are very spooky indeed. It is fateful, though, that we'd reconvene here.
Several years ago a Mercedes was given to me, however it was largely unusable after I hit another car with it. The Mercedes-gifting friend is long out of my life... so I have bought a Toyota and recommend the brand to anyone who needs a car.
I think the poster is commenting on the GPS feature and interface of the cars.
Thanks, R92. But what does that mean? Is it how the car navigates the road as in a smooth ride or some navigation system on the car that tells you where to go because we are no longer capable of reading maps? Is my age showing?
Mercedes is all about engineering and prestige.
To be fair, they are a generation beyond other car manufacturers in technology. The prestige thing, though, makes my skin crawl because of the ass*holes which are attracted to that. However, BMW is still, by far, the worlds biggest ass*hole magnet.
I drive an MB S550. It has the smoothest ride I have ever experienced. As previous owner to several MB products I have never had a lemon. They are a little pricey for service though, but again well worth it.
I'm thinking about buying a new Honda Accord but can't decide between a sedan or coupe. The coupe looks sportier, but do coupes have a lower resale value?
Ha ha ha, r94.
You said "ass*hole magnet."
You are wittay.
My friend had a 2010 Mercedes that burst into flames. I'll pass on those!