A little over a month ago, I wrote about Romney’s unusual capacity for lying, but in the weeks that followed, have come to believe that I was too cautious. What we seem to have is not merely a bad politician but a pathological liar who is psychologically disoriented to a degree found, for example, only in about one in a thousand repeat juvenile offenders.
Consider, for example, this assessment of Romney by Michael Cohen in the Guardian:
Romney persists in repeating the same lies over and over, even after they've been debunked. This is perhaps the most interesting and disturbing element of Romney's tireless obfuscation: that even when corrected, it has little impact on the presumptive GOP nominee's behavior.
This is a pretty good description of pathological lying. Here’s another from the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry:
Falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime.
Wikipedia offers these characteristics of the disease:
The fabricative tendency is long lasting; it is not provoked by the immediate situation or social pressure as much as it is an innate trait of the personality.
The stories told tend toward presenting the liar favorably. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, knowing or being related to many famous people.
Some might argue that Romney is actually a sociopathic liar, defined by one scholarly site on deception as a person who is “often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Sociopaths have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. Sociopaths are often charming and charismatic, but they use their talented social skills in manipulative and self-centered ways.”
There is, however, something oddly robotic about Romney’s behavior, including a bizarre smile that does not fade whatever the topic, suggesting not deliberate falsehood with a stealthily conceived goal so much as an unthinking soldier over-drilled in the art of mendacity.
Just in the past few days, Romney has been caught lying about several things that an ordinary good liar would probably avoid.
- He made up a fictional account of his time as a Mormon missionary in Paris complete with misleading descriptions of his economic conditions at the time and the state of his bathroom.
- He was found to have misstated his residency status in two states at the time that he was launching his bid for for governor there.
- His campaign has run an ad featuring an Ohio auto dealer claiming that Obama’s auto firm bailout had cost dealer jobs in the state. While it may have caused that dealer jobs; in fact, across Ohio dealership jobs increased.
Only one of these lies – the residency issue – was significant because of the benefits it might produce, i.e. making it legal for Romney to run for Massachusetts governor. The other two were trivial, easily exposed, and ultimately pointless.
Romney – unlike, say, a Nixon or Clinton – lies out of habit and nature rather than out of perceived necessity. And he doesn’t just exaggerate; he makes up wholly fictitious tales.
Romney has been greatly aided in this by the demise of American journalism, which now - like much of the country – considers any message to be a reasonable facsimile of reality and, further, one from which one may, with impunity, “walk back” should it prove embarrassing. The days when the conventional press was more loyal to the truth than to favored sources has well passed and now honesty has no embedded press corps to cover it.
What is not clear about Romney, however, is whether his propensity for deception is a personally developed dysfunction or whether it is the result of what can fairly be called brainwashing by the Mormon Church, where he rose from missionary to bishop.
Here again you can expect no help from the conventional media which is afraid to question the role of religion in our culture or politics for fear of seeming biased.
Well, it's apparent that those Mormon underpants are fire retardant.
How many Romney posts which get 3 responses are you going to post today?
R2, why are you complaining about Romney posts in every Romney thread? Are you trying to eliminate anti-Romney threads on Datalounge?
is it that he is pathological liar or that the rebugs banked on him and are banking that the typical American is dumb as a stump and will never investigate his lies?
Barack Obama's election racists, bigot's heads to explode. They are spreading the fear and ignoring Romney's shady, unAmerican, greedy life. The rwnjs, who are louder, richer, and more prominante media-wise, are confidant that those who think like them, will ignore facts, be ignorant enough to vote against their interests. The lefties are too polite, trying to play by the rules, and too timid to be as loud and obnoxioux to really expose the lies.
Any idiot can see what Romney is. A greedy POS. He'll just pass off lie and lie, along with his witch of a wife, talking down to the uneducated, unwashed masses till they take office.
Nobody beats Elizabeth "Cherokee" Warren in the pathological, opportunistic lying department.
Actually, R5, Romney does. Romney does not have that internal governor that tells him not to lie. He almost cannot help himself. Pathological? I guess that's the proper word for it.
R5, Romney is a hundred times worse.
He has been told since he was a small child that he fulfills divine prophecy, that anything he does is good and that he is morally superior to everyone else because of who he is.
R5 is an idiot. OF course there are many Democrats who lie (Hillary Clinton is a case in point). But Romney is in a different class than ALL of them. His entire presentation is based on deception in things small and large.
R5 - Romney might be the most deceitful Presidental nominee from a major party in the modern era.
How are we to respond to a campaign that deliberately deceives the public without shame?
Romney's lie about welfare policy comes on the heels of Romney's lie about voting rights in Ohio, which came on the heels of Romney's lies about the economy; which came on the heels of Romney's lies about health care; which came on the heels of Romney's lies about taxes....
And on and on.
If you removed all the lies from his campaign, he wouldn't have a campaign.
Everyone lies. There's not one perfect truth teller on the planet.
R11, did you miss the point of the article?
You're full of shit R5.
Warren's ethnicity issue - a tiny detail - was fully explained and the explanation was completely sound. As the article notes, and as anyone connected to reality can discern, Romney lies repeatedly and with abandon. Pathologically.
Your party has the most vile and reprehensible presidential nominee of the modern era. Congratulations.
OP, Thank you for posting this thread, and referencing the article. Most interesting is the motivation for lying. I've often been called "too honest." I guess most people expect others to lie.
R11 = Mitt Romney
R11... that's completely irrelevant... an excuse and a distraction. You're pathetic.
So true that reporters and the MSM are as worthless as Romney.
[quote]He made up a fictional account of his time as a Mormon missionary in Paris complete with misleading descriptions of his economic conditions at the time and the state of his bathroom.
Obama made up a number of things in his autobiography, including a fictional girlfriend
[quote]His campaign has run an ad featuring an Ohio auto dealer claiming that Obama’s auto firm bailout had cost dealer jobs in the state. While it may have caused that dealer jobs; in fact, across Ohio dealership jobs increased.
Obama's campaign spent a huge amount of money broadcasting his "Outsourcer" ad...which quotes the Washington Post (but in an inaccurate way)...in fact, so inaccurately that the Washington Post itself gave the ad "Three Pinnochios" - a terrible rating
My point isn't that Romney's behavior is defensible - instead, I am saying that it is unfortunately widespread in politics.
To take a strident position on this topic against one party (and not against the other) is psychotic (or, at least, intellectually dishonest)
To say that Obama 'made up' a 'fictional girlfriend' in his biography is dishonest, R18. The character is a composite. There is a difference. And you're the one being intellectually dishonest if you don't admit that.
Can you answer a simple question? Are you supporting Romney in this election, R18?
I would take Obama's "made up girlfriend" or anything else he says over the reality of a Romney presidency.
The GOP of today is a dangerous party and I'm not being hyperbolic when I say it. Their policies don't even resemble that of the GOP from 20-25 years ago. They are a party of ignorant, hateful, embarrassingly uneducated ideologues. The only question is whether the politician is genuinely all of those things (like Bachmann or Steve King) or playing to the crowd to keep their position (like a Lindsey Graham).
There's a difference between hating someone's ideology vs. simply hating, and when a rightwinger says that the left "hates," they seem to think hating a policy against gay people or a woman's right to choose is on par with the platform-approved xenophobia and homophobia of the right.
Comparing Obama's "lies" to Mitt Romney's habitual mendacity is like comparing a fire-cracker to a nuclear bomb.
It makes you look stupid to even go there.
And, let me guess, Obama had never done the same or similar, right? He ran his entire 2008 campaign on truth and goodness.
Please. Wake up; politicians who lie are nothing new. Both parties do it so don't get all worked up.
Yes, I believe making up a composite character in an autobiography is dishonest. It is a non-fiction book
Certainly on par or worse than lying about the state of bathrooms on a missionary trip
Don't forget that Hillary Clinton lied about being fired on when she flew to Bosnia
In summary, making a big deal out of lying about the state of bathrooms, composite characters in autobiographies, or being fired on in a trip trivializes the issues we face and the topics that we need to address as a country.
Desperation (which this is) is obvious and embarrassing - no matter where it comes from
There's also an important distinction between the lies that come directly out of his own mouth and ones that come from his campaign. Not only does he have a problem with personal honesty, but he's apparently surrounded himself with staff that have no problem with his falsehoods either.
That's the kind of thing that made Nixon more than just personally dislikeable, but actively dangerous.
Freeper desperation smells good.
R22 is that obnoxious parent whose kid is a bully and he tries to justify the behavior by saying "every kid does it."
What has Obama lied about that is on par with Romney's lies? The motherfucker passed healthcare that was to the left of what Obama got through and Romney attacks Obama for it as though Romney had not passed anything resembling the ACA!
I'm reminded of a George Costanza quote when I think of Mitt: "It's not a lie if you believe it."
Now tell us what lies Obama has repeated over and over, even after they've been debunked?
Please notice R23 refuses to admit he supports Romney. I guess the dishonesty runs from the top of the campaign to the bottom.
From the opening of Obama's memoir: "For the sake of compression, some of the characters that appear are composites of people I've known, and some events appear out of precise chronology."
You're only embarrassing yourself, R23.
On a related topic, [bold]WHY[/bold] does every Republican instinctively fall back on the defense strategy of "well everybody does it!" It's beyond pathetic.
R2 stop being a hall monitor.
The more stuff likes this that comes up about RawMoney in a search, the better.
R22, you're still comparing firecrackers to nuclear bombs. Stop it. You're making yourself look like a complete fool.
You can't defend Romney by saying "Obama does it", especially when Obama doesn't. (Only in the twisted delusional minds of FOX News viewers is Obama worse than Romney on any level, in any way)
Rmoney is such a habitual liar. Continuously all the time!
Funny how the desperate repukes bring up "Hillary's sniper fire" gaffe from 2008 from a trip she took there in 1998. At least sniper fire was in the region.
Apples to oranges.
R23? [quote]Clinton admits Bosnia 'mistake'
[quote] Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has said she made a mistake in claiming that she came under sniper fire on a trip to Bosnia in the 1990s.
[quote]"It proves I'm human," she said in Pennsylvania ahead of the key primary election vote there on 22 April.
[quote]Her aides earlier admitted she "misspoke" in claiming she and daughter Chelsea "ran with our heads down" when arriving in Bosnia in 1996.
You see how it works?
Romney doesn't even admit to a 'mistake.' He doubles and triples and quadruples down on the lies he tells.
Stop pretending that the "all politicians do it" defense invalidates the argument regarding Romney. You make no allowance for how big the lie is and whether they admitted to it or chose to continue to lie about it.
Hillary Clinton's autobiography is also full of lies (I babysat the children of migrant farm workers; I met Dr. Martin Luther King; I uncovered vote fraud in the Chicago ghetto as a teenage girl white girl from the suburbs walking alone; Park Ridge made supervisor of one of their parks when I was eleven years old).
It was one big reason why I supported Obama. Obama had been upfront: yes, I used cocaine. Yes, I had issues as a teen. Certainly Obama has lied many times.
But Romney lies about what he did yesterday, and he will turn 180 and lie about what he said today about what he did yesterday tomorrow.
His philosophy is "I'm better than you no matter what I do. You're worse than me no matter what you do." That's it. That's the whole enchilada of Mitt Romney. You can't run a country that way.
This is not a "trivial" issue, or a matter of "gotchas." This is someone whom you cannot believe anything he says, from "I love Ann" to "I believe in America."
Romney has NO recollection that he ever asked for welfare waivers from the feds. He cared nothing for GOVERNING, and it doesn't fit his current self-image, therefore it didn't happen.
Romney's lying is so dangerous because he actually believes them. Who he is changes every single damn day.
The problem is the media (quelle surprise). Don't let him get away with telling the lies. Keep after him. If he insists on lying again, call him out on it. Don't simply move onto something new.
He also lied twice that John Kerry released two years of tax returns. The actual number is 23 years.
In the 2008 election, the Hillary Clinton Campaign releases a video that proves that Obama lied about his position on “single-payer healthcare.”The video compares statements Obama made during the January 21st Democratic debate with those he made to an AFL-CIO conference in June 2003 while campaigning for the Senate. Contradicting what Obama said at the debate, the old footage shows the senator saying, “I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. That’s what I’d like to see.”At the debate, Obama stated: “I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer (healthcare)
During his 12 years in politics, Sen. Barack Obama has received nearly three times more campaign cash from indicted businessman, Tony Rezko and his associates, than he has publicly acknowledged, the Chicago Sun-Times has found.Seven months ago, Obama told the Sun-Times his “best estimate” was that Rezko raised “between $50,000 and $60,000″ during Obama’s political career.However, Obama has collected at least $168,308 from Rezko and his circle. Additionally, Obama also has taken in an unknown amount of money from people who attended fund-raising events hosted by Rezko since the mid-1990s
In March 2007, the Chicago Tribune reports that an extensive search found no basis for an episode Obama recounts about a picture he ran across in Life magazine of a “black man who had tried to peel off his skin” in a failed effort to use chemicals to lighten it. Obama writes that “seeing that article was violent for me, an ambush attack.”The Tribune continued: “Yet no such Life issue exists, according to historians at the magazine. No such photos, no such article. When asked about the discrepancy, Obama said in a recent interview, “It might have been an Ebony or it might have been … who knows what it was?”At the request of the Tribune, archivists at Ebony searched their catalog of past articles, none of which matched what Obama recalled.”
Today, two top Obama campaign officials fibbed on national television, explaining that they didn’t know about the case of Joe Soptic, a former employee of GST Steel who appeared in an ad by an Obama-associated Super PAC, Priorities USA Action. That ad controversially – and falsely – claimed that Bain Capital’s shutdown of GST Steel caused Soptic to lose his health insurance, his wife to lose her health insurance, and eventually, her death from cancer due to unaffordability of health care.
This morning, senior campaign advisor and former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said, ‘This is an ad by an entity that’s not controlled by the campaign. I certainly don’t know the specifics of this man’s case.” Stephanie Cutter, deputy Obama campaign manager, said, “I don’t know the facts about when Mr. Soptic’s wife got sick, or the facts about his health insurance.”
Today, during a press gaggle with Press Secretary Jay Carney and Jen Psaki, Psaki said, "We don’t have any knowledge of the story of the family. As you know, campaign finance rules in that regard are in place for a reason."
These were lies. The Obama campaign has known for months all about Joe Soptic. In fact, the Obama campaign website ran a slide on Soptic
That slideshow appears to have been put up in May, coincident with the campaign’s video about GST Steel featuring Soptic.
But that wasn't all. On May 14, Soptic spoke on an Obama campaign conference call. Here's what he had to say on the call:
“After we lost our jobs we found out that we were going to lose our health insurance and that our pensions hadn’t been funded like Bain promised they would be. I was lucky enough to find another job as a custodian in a local school district. That gave me some health insurance but I couldn’t afford to buy it for my wife. A little while later she was diagnosed with lung cancer. I had to put her in a county hospital because she didn’t have health care. And when the cancer took her away, all I got was an enormous bill. That put a lot of stress on me. I thought I would be paying it off until I died myself.”
For the Obama team to claim ignorance about Soptic while spinning his story precisely the same way as Priorities USA Action did -- and then to run a conference call off the story -- shows both coordination and lying.
Obama said "I will walk on that picket line with you, if workers are denied the right to bargain."
Yet he never showed up in Wisconsin either during the occupation of the statehouse or during the recall election
Again, R37/R38, you need to be reminded: President Barack Hussein Obama could tell us he fucked his grandmother's corpse and I would vote for him over anyone the GOP puts forth (save Jon Huntsman).
Do you understand that there is nothing that would possess a sane, thinking person to vote for today's GOP no matter what you post?
The GOP is VILE.
Keep fucking that chicken, R37/38/39/40/41.
Obama promised during the campaign "When a bill lands on my Desk, The American people will have 5 days to review it before I sign it"
Yet that has not been followed
"I'll be better than Ted Kennedy on gay rights."
Who said that?
Hmmmmm.... I wonder...
In case I wasn't clear enough, Freepy McFreeper: I will take the lies of Obama over the reality of the GOP any day of the week.
No point in you continuing to copy/paste the latest nonsense from Free Republic or Little Green Footballs or Newsbusters or whatever site where brain cells go to die.
I'm just waiting for the day when Romney starts to claim it was his twin brother "Nitt" who said those things, R45
I found the following interesting:
by arthanyel August 7, 2012 3:43 PM
"It's pretty clear why Romney won't release his tax returns.
Remember, Romney he was actively running for president in 2007 and 2008, and he KNEW he was going to be running in 2012. That means it's nearly certain those years should be able to withstand scrutiny. So why not at least release the last 5 years?
Because on October 15, 2009, this happened: "Wealthy U.S. taxpayers, concerned about an Internal Revenue Service crackdown on the use of secret overseas bank accounts as tax havens, are rushing to meet a 10/15/2009 deadline to disclose those accounts or face possible criminal prosecution. The concern was triggered this summer when Switzerland's largest bank, caught up in an international tax evasion dispute, said it would disclose the names of more than 4,000 of its U.S. account holders.
The decision shattered a long-held belief that Swiss banks would guard the identities of its American customers as carefully as they did their money, and it raised concern that other international tax havens might be next. Under an amnesty program, the IRS is allowing taxpayers to avoid prosecution for having failed to report their overseas accounts. As a result, tax attorneys across the nation have been besieged by wealthy clients who are lining up to apply even though they will still face big financial penalties."
We KNOW Romney had money in Switzerland - he has said so himself. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that Romney doesn't want people to know he was intentionally (and illegally) hiding money from taxation in Switzerland. There is no criminal prosecution because the IRS granted an amnesty, but it WAS ILLEGAL - and he knew it.
No wonder he is keeping them a secret - releasing them would destroy his candidacy."
A great many Americans adore pathological liars.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Life is lying. Blacks trying to bleach themselves white is a common occurrence and today it is all the rage in India. I believe Obama on that one. What would Life file it under, "skin bleaching"? They wouldn't. Nobody searching for such a photo in the Life archives would even know what to look for.
Karl Rove openly coordinates Romney's campaign and Super PAC.
As for Soptic, how exactly is he lying? Did Bain cut him off and cut off his health insurance? YES.
And when you cut off people's health insurance, some of them, quite predictably, will die because of it. So whether or not Soptic's wife can really be said to be one of the victims, there will turn out to be many others.
People in this thread actually think there is a substantial difference between Obama and Romney. Priceless.
Because Obama has done so much to roll back/reverse the things Democrats bitched about with Bush.
Bush drones; evil. Obama drones; fine.
Bush Patriot Act; offense to civil liberty.
Obama support of unchanged renewal; no prob.
Bush relationship with Wall Street; dispicable.
Obama not holding Wall Street accountable; cool.
Bush signing statements; affront to Constitution.
Obama executive orders to circumvent Constitution? Fine.
Bush assassinations with no due process? Non-existent.
Obama same power? Not only confirmed but defended.
Bush illegal wiretapping? Invasion of privacy.
Obama renewal of law unchanged? We don't mind.
Bush administration transparency? Horrible.
Obama administration transparency? Worse but oh well.
The same Democrats who bitched and moaned about all of the ways Bush was infringing on their privacy, violating their rights, and acting like a tyrant have been virtually silent while Obama does the same exact things. Yet you've convinced yourselves that all of the civil liberty issues can be overlooked because a Republican will ruin the country.
It amazes me that Obama in so many ways has succeeded in continuing Bush policies but you're so wrapped up in some superficial argument that Democrats are better for the country than Republicans.
Wake up people. Both parties are a sham and they want nothing more than for you to get all emotionally worked up.
Romney would do all those things any many more R53. Obama has kept some promises (health care reform; auto bailout; gay rights).
There is a huge difference between Obama and Romney, a vast one. Romney will use nuclear weapons if elected president R53. That's no small thing.
R53 is a more sophisticated PsyOps warrior. No, we will not be so depressed over Obama as not to vote. We will vote and we will work for him because Romney is just plain unthinkable.
R54 - You are delusional. Romney will use nuclear weapons? Ok.
There is no "huge difference" between Obama and Romney; just like there is no "huge difference" between Bush and Obama. There was a "huge difference" between the two in Obama's 2008 campaign rhetoric but not in actual practice. Obama knows how to talk the talk but walking the walk has been a completely different story.
R53, do you think you're being profound? Do you think you're telling us things we don't already know?
Should we vote for Ralph Nader or the like to make YOU happy as yet another Republican gets elected, but at least we can hold our heads high for voting third party? Yeah, that'll really show 'em! It worked out so well in 2000. Is that the tactic on the right?
Until the opposing party is NOT the GOP in its current form, there is no way in hell we'd not vote for Obama, and I'm sick of this nonsense from people like you who think the rest of us look at Obama like we're a bunch of starry-eyed teenagers.
I don't know if you're just another rightwing jackass attempting to pull this "they're the same" bullshit, but what I do know is that WE HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE.
The goal is to keep the GOP out. PERIOD. Stop wasting your time because there is no way in hell we are not voting for Obama.
Does Romney even have a platform?
No. He wants his vice presidential running mate to have strength of character and a vision for America.
Who's being deceived? Republicans would vote for any white man over Obama. Hell, they'd vote for Alan Keyes
[quote]There is no "huge difference" between Obama and Romney
Actually, yes there is, and it's not even close, particularly on economic issues. Romney has supported the Ryan budget, which Obama opposes. Romney has supported ending Medicare as we know it, which Obama opposes. Romney has supported "cut, cap, and balance," which would be a disaster, and Obama opposes it. Romney wants massive financial deregulation; Obama opposes it. Romney wants massive tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy; Obama opposes them.
Do I really need to go on? I haven't even gotten to the appointment of federal judges, including the Supreme Court, or to the makeup of the various regulatory agencies, all of which differ dramatically from Bush. Or to gay rights, all of which Romney opposes and Obama supports. Trust me, I can keep going.
[quote]just like there is no "huge difference" between Bush and Obama.
ROFL.... Well, sure, if you're a clueless moron.
[quote]Does Romney even have a platform?
Yes and no. He's got a wish list but he has put no specific proposals on the table, to the best of my knowledge. For example, he has advocated cutting taxes on the wealthy but has also said that such tax cuts would be made revenue neutral by closing other tax loopholes. To date, he hasn't identified a single loophole he'd close. Or he's said that he intended to add 500,000 jobs a month but hasn't said specifically how. Or that America will become energy-independent in a few years but hasn't said how.
It's pretty much that way on every single topic. Most of these claims are complete bullshit, of course, but that hasn't stopped him from making them over and over again.
Well, the whole point is sort of moot because at this rate, there's no way in hell Mitt Romney will become President.
Let's not get overconfident, R63.
That can be dangerous.
bump for the lying pompous ass that is Romney.
His comments on Libya will be the end of him. The shit he pulled today is worse than McCain's "The economy is sound" bs.
Something is VERY wrong with this man.
God help the earth if he gets into the White House.
He has said how America will be independent in energy R62, development of domestic oil and gas. What he hasn't said is that to make shale oil economy, oil prices have to be much higher than they are now. He is promising extremely expensive gas.