Now Voyager on TCM NOW!

Haven't seen this but had to be carried out of Dark Victory.

This is sad in some ways, but rewarding in others. I think the ending is a copout, but the Production Code was in effect at the time. I never read the book, so I don't know how it ended.

Bette looked fantastic in this movie.

The melodrama is what makes the film so enjoyable. The scenes with Gladys Cooper, Ilka Chase and Bonita Granville and ugly Bette are just too delicious!

Bette said that she always believed that Charlotte eventually and happily married the doctor played by Claude Rains.

I agree....after her "transformation" she was at the height of her beauty in this. Or let's just say, she never looked better!

Mary Wickes is in this; she was one of the great character actresses of all time and was always fantastic no matter what she played, and she was also a lesbian. She did one or two other movies with Bette.

In real life Gladys Cooper, who played Bette's hideous cunt of a mother, was actually a very nice woman and she and Bette became friends on the set and stayed in touch for many years afterwards.

Mary Wickes was a lesbian?!

"Oh Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon -- we have the stars."

An architect! I could cry with pride.

Dr. Jasquith says that tyranny is sometimes expression of the maternal instinct. If that's a mother's love, I want no part of it.

What is the Bette movie where she's this woman who is aging, and then she tries to date her daughter's boyfriend? At the end of the movie, I remember her hair (a weave) falling out on the stairs and I think her dentures also falling out?

God, if that was my mother, she would have an unfortunate accident... down that winding staircase.

But is the psychiatry in this film dated or not?

r10, no...you're thinking of "Mr. Skeffington" with Bette and Claude Rains.

Mr. Skeffington, it is. Thank you!

Mr. Skeffington will be on tonight at 930 on TCM. I think it's Claude Rains Day or something.

[quote]But is the psychiatry in this film dated or not?

Well, of course it is. It takes place in the Forties, when it was made. If you want something that represents the very latest in psychiatry, you'll have to look pretty far and hard: indeed, even the recent TV series IN TREATMENT shows a more Freudian model for therapy and doesn't show the kind of cognitive behavioral therapy that most working therapists practice these days.

That doesn't mean the film of NOW VOYAGER isn't still terrific; and the fine performances (Davis's, Claude Rains's, Paul Henreid's, Gladys Cooper's, and even Janis Wilson as the miserable Tina) are also still first-rate.

Okay, I officially nominate the girl who plays 'Tina' Worst Child Actress of All-Time. That over-emoting of hers mars a fairly enjoyable production.

Oh, I really like Janis Wilson as Tina. If ever a role that called for over-emoting, it's that one--her character is so incredibly unhappy and miserable, and she can't hide it since she's just a child.

She's also memorable (and really creepy) in THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS, where she plays a young Barbara Stanwyck.

I love how young Martha gives Judith Anderson a beatdown and makes her fall down those stairs...

[quote]even the recent TV series IN TREATMENT shows a more Freudian model for therapy and doesn't show the kind of cognitive behavioral therapy that most working therapists practice these days.

True. Nothing to do with the topic at hand, but TV and movies still largely depict therapy as entailing the patient droning on about his/her crappy childhood and how fucked up they are as a result of it.

Most therapists today employ CBT (and have for at least the last 20 years) and many of them aren't interested in hearing about the patient's childhood much at all.

Bonita Granville, who plays the bitchy cousin (or is she Bette's niece?), went on to play the fabulous Nancy Drew, Girl Detective in a delightful series of B pictures.

Watching Mr. Skeffington now. There's a character, I think he's the gay brother of Bette's character, named Trippy Trellis!

There's been a longtime DL poster with that name and I just assumed he made it up.

This film must have marked the beginning of the decline of Bette Davis' Warner Bros. career. She must have been crazy to do this while Joan was planning Mildred Pierce at the same studio.

[quote]Most therapists today employ CBT....

Cock & ball torture? Yes, I've read of it on Craigslist. Sounds very progressive.

Great movie! Very melodramatic but still one of my favorites. (And the title is from a line by Walt Whitman.)

I read that both Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck turned down "Mildred Pierce"! I'm really surprised, as it is such a fantastic story.

That print dress she wears when she ditches the platonic stiff... what's on that, carrots? Also, her teeth are kinda busted, the bottom row, at least...

R22, Mr. Skeffington was Davis' last Oscar nominated performance with Warner Bros., and yes, the movies she did for WB after this weren't exactly stellar. She would be with WB for another five years.

I think Bette Davis was all wrong for the part of Fanny Trellis Skeffington. Fanny was supposed to be a ravishing beauty desired by all the men in town, and Bette, though glamorous when she wanted to be, was hardly a great beauty. Supposedly, both Merle Oberon and Hedy Lamar were offered the part, but they turned it down. Vivien Leigh would've been perfect.

Yes, Vivien Leigh as Fanny!

Is this one of the roles Bette fought for or against?

Very hard to believe she would have willingly agreed to play such a vapid character, especially after recently doing Dark Victory, The Letter, Now Voyager and The Little Foxes.

Was she having an affair with the director or one of her leading men?

Bette talks about Gladys Cooper and Claude Raines with Dick.

sorry to contradict R21, but Bonita's days as Nancy Drew ended about 3 years before "Now, Voyager" was filmed.

Finding the observations about therapy quite interesting. I've never been to therapy, but I always assumed movies just used it as a different way to have a narrator/flashback set up. And, like insanity, it makes for a quick plot device.

Agree with R16. Everything about the film is dated and yet it doesn't matter: it isn't so much a film about fashion or psychiatry or how to treat the domestic servants.

The Dick Cavett Show tape with Bette......she is SO SMART and reasonable. You can't imagine sympathizing with anyone who ever went up against her. Who wouldn't have killed to work with the woman you see in this interview???

And Dick Cavett was so cute!

I've seen the entire Bette Davis interview with Dick Cavett and was blown away by her intelligence and wit. She did not know what Cavett was going to ask her beforehand - her responses to his questions were completely spontaneous. It's the best celebrity interview I have ever seen. Bette was a sharp cookie, and I could listen to her all day long. Nobody like her today.

The Cavett/Davis interview was great. Love how she brings her big black bag with her & sets it on the floor next to her chair -- was she afraid to leave it backstage?

I don't know R35. Bette Davis might have been a great interview back in the day, but for this generation we have Ryan Lochte.

R35 she brought her bag because that's where she kept her cigarette case and lighter.

Merle was foolish to turn it down, but though she was gorgeous, I don't think that she had the acting chops to handle the demands of the role. Just watch her in Julien Duvivier's 'LYDIA' of 1941 and clearly she's a bit out of her element as an aging society woman. I enjoy many of her films, but I don't think she could have pulled off Fanny Skeffington.

I always wondered why it's called Mr. Skeffington when it's about Mrs. Skeffington.

Is that irony?

The author of the novel "Mr. Skeffington", Elizabeth von Arnim, sounds like an interesting woman who led a fascinating life full of famous people.

I love that Boston house.

Oberon could never have pulled off the latter half of the role in "Mr. Skeffington". Nor could any of the "beauties" around at the time. Davis was perfect. Fanny had to be a combination of looks AND personality, something Davis had in spades.

Vivien Leigh would have been beter.

Or even Paulette Goddard.

I was the nightclub singer that Bette compliments in Mr Skeffington

According to Vincent Sherman, the director of "Mr. Skeffington," Bette was extremely temperamental and difficult on the movie. He had directed her before (and was a former lover) and was shocked by her behavior, as was Claude Rains.

James Woods discusses Bette's performance in "Now, Voyager:"

It's on now, voyager!

[quote]Bette looked fantastic in this movie.

Yes. Well. Well, as about as good as she could.

It's on now. Why does the chauffeur in Rio speak Spanish and Italian rather than Portuguese?

I love this movie

This film speaks to gay men and their desires. A marginalized ugly duckling under the thumb of oppression, rules and society becomes a swam with self-possession and elegance, breaks free of oppression and finds a wonderful, kind man.

You know what I'd like? I'd like you to take me to some Bohemian restaurant for dinner some night, where we can be very gay, have cocktails and champagne. And you could make love to me. Well, what I mean is, if I could just get rid of some of my inhibitions just for once, I might have more confidence.

Oh Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon; we have the stars.

The movie may be dated in many respects, but not this: a fully accurate depiction of a mean, controlling parent.

Meanwhile, I love the Davis' character's wardrobe, which was by Orry-Kelly. That moment when her makeover is revealed -- on the ship -- she's wearing these fantastic shoes. Spectator pumps, I think.

Orry-Kelly. He gave good gown.

Neither Bette nor Dick could remember the Moon/Stars quote from the end of the movie. I wanted the audience to rise up and shout it out to them.

Nice tribute to Gladys Cooper from Bette too. Bette liked professionalism from her co-stars and Miss Cooper fit right in there.

I think Dick was a little starstruck with Bette. He fumbled and mumbled and let her talk all over him. He lost control of the interview a lot.

But, it is a treasure just for her stories.

R2

What was the 'production code' you mentioned and how did it change the movie's ending ?

I always thought the Now, Voyager could be remade now - with the married Paul Henreid character a closeted gay.

It would make the ending much more believable!

I prefer Star Trek Voyager. Is that on now?

It started about half an hour ago.

OP, doesn't hold up?

It's a classic period piece, think of it as being contemporary for the time depicted.

Everyone is superb, even minor characters. Bette never looked better--that scene where she has the gown on that looks as if it is white or light blue or silver--stunning. You don't find glamour like that today.

Wasn't Cooper also considered a fashion trendsetter back in the day?

Mary Wickes--the original scene stealer! When I first saw this, I didn't know who she was, but instantly loved her.

I also loved that Boston house--and the man Charlotte was engaged to--a nice hunk of the era.

[quote] I prefer Star Trek Voyager. Is that on now?

No, simpleton! I will have you ejected into space!

You're getting groggy granny dear..

That moment on the ship when the camera pans up from Bette's shoes to her hat gives me MARY chills every single time.

Why, R64?

"They told me before you were born that my recompense to having a late child was the comfort the child would be to me in my old age, especially if she was a girl. And on your first day home after six month's absence, you behave like this."

Wait I've got another:

"You've never done anything to make your mother proud, or to make yourself proud either. Why, I should think you'd be ashamed to be born and live all your life as Charlotte Vale. Miss Charlotte Vale!"

Now all I need is to marry a Boston Brahmin, get a large house in town, have a pack of kids then pick out one to torture! *LOL*

My favorite line is when Livingston arrives to take Charlotte out for the evening, and he gives her the third degree about Jerry's flowers as she's bustling about getting her coat and what not. "Ahhhn't you full of QUESS-tunz!" says Charlotte. "Aren't YOU full of mystery!" retorts Livingston. And Bette turns her head to him, with her beautiful eyes half closed and the most nonplussed expression like butter wouldn't melt, and answers... "I?"

Was the Vale house a set or did/does it exist? Just love townhouses on corners with drives.

That was a set, but as a Boston resident, I can tell you that you could count on one hand the number of Back Bay houses that have kind of arrangement. It's an elegant district of row house homes, and there's not much room for a driveway with a porte-chochere.