The JUDY GARLAND - BARBARA WALTERS Interview from 1967. Complete.
Miss Garland made Walters wait 4 hours.
She is wearing one of Lorna's outfits.
The interview was taped three days after daughter Liza's wedding to Peter Allen and Garland's appearance on What's My Line?
sad but she did let Walters know about her Mom even though she wasnt truthful about her "illness"
what year was the Liza M. interview missed it and cant get back to it without watching the whole thing.
That was great. Thank you, OP.
R2- December 1973.
Judy Gawwand, what is it wike to be a wiving wegend?
I love the looks that Judy's giving Barbara, like "is this bitch for real?"
Judy isn't in the mood for this silly interview. I imagine they put her up at a hotel for a few days as payment.
Am I really going to be the first one to ask:
What the fuck is up with Barbara Walter's makeup?!? She looks she's wearing something concocted for Lena Horne by Perc Westmore in 1943.
addicted to CARPETS!
Love Lorna's full out I KNOW A PLACE, key change and all
What is the cause of Judy's nagging cough?
Who answered the phone?
What is Judy's recipe for shepherd's pie that little Joe loves so much?
Are there pics of Judy wearing Lorna's clothes?
I never realized how wrecked her teeth were, no doubt from the speed addiction. So sad. She's such a mess it's heartbreaking. And such a little sparrow of a person.
Lorna looks so tense. And Joe-- full out ADH.
Judy seems quite lucid and kind in this interview. What an adorable child little Joey was. Lorna is trying to be acquiescent yet you can already see the pain in her eyes. When Judy denies the drug abuse it's a sad moment, however. Denial must have run strong in her life at that time.
Yeah its sad to watch and she seems a couple decades older than than she is. Reminds me of Whitney interviews in the last 10 or so years before her death- evasive- so obviously a broken person and physical wreck.
"You get out and sing or I'll wrap you around the bedpost and break you off short." Was Judy's mother really as awful as she claims?
She drew a weekly check from Metro every week Judy was there. While she may have been Judy's coach till MGM took over, she was also supported by her child's income. Judy was supporting her family (with the Gumm Sisters) long before any child should have to.
She married her second husband on the anniversary of the death of her first--Judy's dad, whom she loved.
Gerald Clarke says it was Judy's mom (not MGM) that started her on the pills. It just intensified/was sanctioned/continued at MGM.
Once Judy cut her mom off, she went to work at an aircraft plant and died in the parking lot...so that's an example of the kind of work the woman was capable of getting on her own, as opposed to living well off the blood sweat and tears of her children.
R14-There have been conflicting stories from the one surviving Gumm sister (is she still living?) that Judy made all that up.
Strange to watch. Why were the children sitting there next to her while Barbara asked about all those personal things? Seems inappropriate.
They were keeping her propped up R17.
Hard to believe the woman sitting there was only 45 . Sheryl Crow is 50. Jennifer Aniston is only 2 years younger than Judy here. Yet Judy looks like a grandmother, poor thing. Thats a woman who led a tough life- and I think , sadly , it aged her terribly.
Liza 1973 = acne
Is Joey retarded?
Speed makes anyone who takes it age very quickly. Elvis Presley was the same way. He looked gorgeous until he started popping the pills and became a caricature of his former self.
Poor Lorna, she looks so sad and unhappy...and with good reason.
r19 while I agree with you that Judy looks older than her years, all women (and most men) looked older than their years in those days.
Look at Barbara Walters in the same clip. She was a mere 30-something and looks 50.
Hard to fathom but in the past, makeup and grooming and hairstyling was all about the desire to lok more sophisticated and...yes, older.
It wasn't until just a couple of years after that interview that everyone wanted to look like an eternal teenager.
May I also add - plastic surgery was still rather primitive and risky in those days and of course there was no botox, restalyne, dermabrasion, or the millions of advanced skin care products that are available today. Celebrities, and people in general, look much younger today because of all the advances in plastic surgery and skin care technology that were unheard of back in Judy's day.
I think for Judy, having the kids present at the interview was a way to declare that she was not embarrassed or sorry for any past mistakes.
Her comments about Peter Allen are, of course, quite hilarious in respect to what followed.
So is Joey retarded?
Another sad drug-addled interview at link. And she's dismissive of reports that she had a lot of gay fans starting at about 3:29. She makes childish gutteral 'ugh ugh' noises when interviewer says 'homosexual' then she goes on the say the woman who wrote that shouldn't be taken seriously, because she was, after all, a 'fella'.
So Judy was a big ole homophobe.
I'll never get the Judy worship.
Joey looks retarded and gay. Baba looks like a total dyke.
Liza is looks very lesbisch.
The video doesn't work in France.
the barbara walters interview, that is.
r28, it is odd that that video is entitled "Judy defends her gay fans" when it is true basically she just denied her audience was gay. And I do remember that "don't mistreat my audience" quote being used as her big defense of her gay fans, but seeing the clip, it really isn't. But I also hate it when people look at an ancient quote and don't put it into correct context (such as people who compare Clinton's and Obama's gay rights record as if they were presidents at the same time.) What mainstream star ever went on record as pro-gay at the time? None, it was a completely different world.
Why didn't Baba ask her what kind of tree she would be?
r29 - you are so malicious.
How is that, R35?
I wonder if Joey suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome or something.....he clearly seems "not too terribly with it".
He did. He has special care now too.
the bw interview is blocked outside of the USA.
Is there any way to see it?
Barbara's spray tan is hilarious.
I was molested!
Let's get personal. Your father Werner was a burger server in suburban Santa Barbara, when he spurned your mother Verna for a curly-haired surfer named Roberta. Did that hurt her?
R41, it's called QT.
"I wonder if Joey suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome or something.....he clearly seems not too terribly with it."
He's a mama's boy. Still is.
"You get out and sing or I'll wrap you around the bedpost and break you off short." Was Judy's mother really as awful as she claims?"
No. Her sister Virginia always refuted Judy's claims that Ethel made her a drug addict (if Ethel was pouring drugs down her girl's throats in order to "keep these girls going!" why didn't her other two daughters become addicts, too?).
Judy liked to say that the reason she went broke (the FIRST time) was because Ethel squandered her money, but evidence shows that Ethel managed her money conservatively; it was when Judy got control of her finances that her money started to evaporate.
Judy Garland only grew to hate her mother after she went into psychoanalysis. Seems some shrink told her that people's problems usually stem from the treatment they get from Mother. Judy took that notion and RAN with it: "it's not my fault I'm a drug addict. She MADE me one!" Ever after Judy portrayed her mother as a monster ("she'd slap me in the mother and tell me to get out there and sing") who abused her Baby Gumm in order to attain wealth and the reflected glory of being the mother of a Hollywood star. Ethel Gumm was ambitious for her daughter, but she was nowhere near the horror story Judy made her out to be.
As for this interview...well, Garland comes across as exactly what she was: an unwell, prematurely aged, hardened woman.
"Gerald Clarke says it was Judy's mom (not MGM) that started her on the pills. It just intensified/was sanctioned/continued at MGM."
You know where Clarke got that information from? JUDY! Drug-addled, mentally ill, delusional Judy.
She made some tapes and wrote a few pages for a memoir she intended to write. On the tapes she's ranting, drunk or drugged, railing against everybody : "you sons of bitches!" That's where Clarke got all the info about the evil Ethel Gumm who poured pills down her daughter's throat beginning at the tender age of TEN. At least that's what happened in Judy's druggie mind.
Despite Judy's penchant for exaggeration and embellishment, Clarke takes everything she ever said as gospel truth. Which is why his biography of her, "Get Happy", is pretty much a crock of shit.
"why didn't her other two daughters become addicts, too?"
SUZY DID. And not because of Mother Gumm, because Suzy, like Judy, was bi-polar. Suzy was a suicide 5 years before Judy.
Garland is half right about her concert audiences. In the early 1960s, Judy drew a family audience as well as gays when she was most popular---before and after the Carnegie Hall concert and album when she played large venues. By the late 1960s, her audience was mostly gay.
Alan, who saw Judy sing throughout the '60s
Make that "she'd slap me in the MOUTH and tell me to get out there and sing."
Anyway, Judy's tales about her mother were mostly outrageous lies.
R48, popular vocalists mostly played nightclubs where liquor was served. Definitely for adults, not families. Concerts were rare.
Run Judy run!
Many people who met Ethel Gumm were not impressed. Director Joe Mankiewicz found her a "real piece of work", and many people's impression of her was not very far off from Judy's. She was by all accounts a rather cold, and desperately relentless stage mother.
How do these odd rumors start? Joey Luft is a neighbor of mine, I see him quite often. He does not live in a group home. He is not retarded. He is not a drug addict. He is perfectly normal and a nice guy. He's just very private. He has had a few health problems in the past (physical), but nothing that unusual.
incidentally, he is 100% straight.
I think the the key to Garland's personality is self destructive behavior which evolved over time.
She was the essentially the family bread winner from her early childhood on. Apparently she was an unwanted pregnancy .The mother went to a family friend who was a doctor seeking an abortion. The father was a closeted homosexual ,who's compulsive behavior resulted in the family literally run out of two towns. I think the mom eventually put all her sights on this one kid as her way out of a marriage . With the death of her dad Garland lost the only person she perceived to be her protector and when her mom remarried Judy was already on the brink of film stardom and the studio system only reenforced Garland's own insecurities at the same time it created a "monstre sacre" in an adolescent girl. I think Garland learned to play the victim at an early age and as another poster pointed out, one of her sisters also developed drug dependency and died from suicide. Clearly there was something in the family dynamic that contributed but I think ultimately the MGM studio system and Garland was a mix that was destined for disaster. I also think she contributed to and came to became to embrace the myth. I would think if someone researched the family there would be a history of alcoholism and it doesn't surprise me that both Liza and Lorna have struggled and poor Joey..who knows what demons he struggles with but props to him for remaining out of the public eye.
I think Judy was sexually terribly repressed. She was probably a lesbian and she couldn't admit that even to herself. She couldn't deal with her father's homosexuality and of course she couldn't deal honestly with her own sexuality.
Are you kidding, r58? Judy fucking loved cock! She was promiscuous at various periods in her life, and it was always about getting stuffed with a big one. Like her contemporaries Ava and Lana, Judy was a huge size queen.
R59, that is a lie. Judy didn't really like cock and i don't think that she really enjoy sex. For example, i remember reading in one of her biographies that for some time she was avoiding having sex because she was afraid of it. It was during her marriage to Minnelli by the way.
Oh and as it comes to Ava, give us a break. She might have been fucked by many men but that didn't make her straight at heart. Listen to me, Ava was in the closet, she was sexually more capable of experiencing some pleasure with men than Judy, but her aura and her features betrayed her real sexual identity. She was a lesbian, a narcissistic one.
Lana is another thing. She was... one God know what she really was!
The only thing blue about Miss Barbara were those knots on her legs. Blue tarantulas.
Icky, Mama. Icky.
"Judy didn't really like cock and i don't think that she really enjoy sex. For example, i remember reading in one of her biographies that for some time she was avoiding having sex because she was afraid of it."
You are totally full of bullshit.
I've read MANY biographies of Garland and in none of them was it said that she ever in her life "was avoiding having sex because she was afraid of it." In fact, Judy was very active sexually, was quite promiscuous even. That stands to reason; she was bi-polar, and people with that mental illness tend to do things to excess, and that includes sex. Judy had occasional affairs with women, but that was only because, well, it was something different to do now and then. Judy, by all accounts, a lover of men. The men she got involved with tended to be gay and/or awful, but she couldn't do without one. She needed a man, always.
It seems to be a trend these days to try and make every dead Hollywood legend gay. Some woman even came out with a book saying Marilyn Monroe was really a lesbian, which is as ridiculous as saying Judy was one. Both Judy and Marilyn were very, very much into men, and that's not my opinion. The lives of both of them have been well-documented and neither of them were lesbians, although technically Judy would have to be classified as bi.
R63 fucking bitch, zip it if you haven't read all Judy Garland biographies like i have.Idiotic constipated bra of a man, haven't you read the book Judy Garland:A Biography written by Anne Edwards? Gays like you piss me off. Do you live in a pink house where everything is pink and straight as it comes to women?
I agree with R61. Ava Gardner's looks were tres lesbian.
Well R64 if you've read all the Judy bios you'll know that David Shipman talks about her getting lots of sex, to the point of letting a gay friend sodomize her.
In Clarke's GET HAPPY there's the story of her singing "Rainbow" with a mouthful of a lover's semen.
Shipman also mentions multiple abortions (which she wouldn't have needed if she weren't getting cock), one of the kids aborted was Tyrone Power's.
First husband David Rose told her she was "despicable" when she suggested that he go down on her.
In addition to five husbands (whom she must have had at least some sex with--she bore three children), there were affairs with Jackie Cooper, Joe Mankiewicz, Orson Wells, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Mercer, Glenn Ford, Harry Rubin, John Meyer, Tom Green, Yul Brynner, Mario Lanza, James Mason...the list goes on.
There was some lesbyterianism in there as well: Betty Asher, maybe Kay Thompson, and others depending on who you believe.
Mayer's little hunchback definitely got some good dick through the years. Doesn't it just make you love her all the more?
Judy got some premium cock, as r66's list attests to. Lots of hot Hollywood men. I will never understand the Vincente Minnelli thing, though. Was he like a father figure more than a husband to her? He was clearly gay as a goose, although the obviously had sex on at least one occasion.
Judy Garland had sex with Mario Lopez AND John Mayer?? WTF??
R66, i'm referring only to the reliable biographies about Judy Garland. There is no way Garland ever sung Over the Rainbow with a mouthful of a lover's semen. Judy dated men but i doubt that she had slept with all of them. Now as it comes to abortions, yes she had one at her first marriage, because the studio, her hubby and of course her notorious mother wanted Judy to be a star and not a mother yet.
Tyrone Power was a a friggin' gayman. Have you ever seen his face and his movements? Yes, he dated Judy, but i don't really think that Judy had ever sex with him. The studio didn't want Judy with Tyrone Power and Tyrone Power being the diva he was wouldn't dare to fuck Judy (he would fuck her as he fucked the women he had slept with-by fantasizing that he was having sex with a man. The same happened with poor Lana. Tyrone was fantasizing he was with a man or that he was fucking himself when he was fucking Lana and the result was poor slutty Lana being pregnant to his child. She had an abortion because Power wasn't man enough to keep on fucking a wildcat like Lana...so they broke it off. He actually broke it off.
Judy needed to be wanted. Men are an easy prey, even gay men, so Judy was trying to be with a man most of the time, but that unfortunately didn't make her straight or more happy as it seems.
I could tell you all about Ava and Judy. Particularly Ava....
R69...you make about as much sense as Judy after a cartload of pills.
"There is no way Garland ever sung Over the Rainbow with a mouthful of a lover's semen."
And just how would YOU know that, you yammering nutjob? Considering how crazy and drug-addicted Judy Garland became I'd say that scenario seems entirely plausible. Idiots like you piss ME off.
Your attempt to make Judy into a pussy-hungry lesbian is laughable. She had some lesbian experiences but no way did she prefer female lovers. That's just a fact. If you'd actually read any "reliable biographies" about Garland you'd know that. By the way, the Anne Edwards biography of Garland is one of the lesser ones, so your singling it out as a reliable source is pretty stupid.
In her later years Judy took up with a young man (gay, of course) named Tom Green. He helped her out financially, he took her home to meet his family, they were engaged. It was a serious romance until Judy had him arrested for stealing her jewelry. Seems Judy was strapped for cash so poor Green pawned a couple of her rings, something that had been done out of necessity before. Judy's behavior finally drove him away, but before it all came crashing down they were hot and heavy. In fact, they were so randy that when they went to a restaurant Judy would sometimes dive under the table to fellate Green while he was "picking at his appetizer." Doesn't sound much like the behavior of a pussy-loving lesbian to me.
So Judy kept Barbara waiting for 4 hours; I have new found respect for Garland.
R71, i can see the logic behind R69's comment, but i cannot see your point. You are gay, i think, maybe you felt insulted as a gay man so R69's interesting observations about homosexuality made you tense and worried. It is true though that gay men cannot hide behind their antics. They are easily recognizable.
Garland biographies run the gamut from reasonably accurate to, well, better classed as fiction. Shipman's is the worst. Clarke's isn't much better.
Vincente Minnelli's assessment of Judy and Ethel's relationship is likely the most accurate:
They were both too proud.
r72 fine retort with an equally stupendous claim.
No one can sing with a mouthful of anything, much less semen.
Clarke's biography is shit. Fictitious stories that Judy made up with second hand gossip/stories that are ludicrous at best. The story of Judy is interesting enough without having to resort to lies and half truths. Especially the ones Judy was telling.
R72, go fist yourself fuckin' gay bitch. You twisting pair of sissy balls. Anne Edwards biography of Judy Garland is the most accurate if you want to know. Dust off your library!
Judy was never a man eater. All these unreasonable myths about poor Judy! She was so sick, men could not fuck her without killing her. Cock was something that Judy needed in her life but not inside her holes. She needed the protection that male arms could give her. That's what she was craving for.
Who the hell is Anne Edwards? Is she a lesbian author who spins?
R79, Anne Edwards' biography about Judy is very decent and very respectful to Judy. She is not saying that Judy was a lesbian, but a perceptive person can see that behind Judy's life there is a repressed insecure lesbo. She tried to be something she was not because she needed desperately to be loved and to be admired. That exclusively led to her breakdown and to her drug addiction. What do you know, anyway? I'm talking to a wall!
repressed and insecure without a doubt, but not sold on the lesbo claim
What, exactly, does one think are indications of lesbianism?
I think Judy looked for security anywhere but didn't know how to function in and cope with a potentially stable situation.
R82, for example... you writing implies that you are a woman. If i'm right on that then i'm probably right about Judy being a repressed lesbo.
R81 apparently doesn't know that Anne Edwards is the biggest hack biographer this side of Darwin Porter.
HA! Nothing like 50/50 odds, eh, R83?
On second thought, R72 has issues that require therapy.
I just read Edwards' bio. One would think she would have crossed paths with Judy more than once during the 60s.
I have no more time for further replies. Sadly i have to log off.
R85, i think you got my point secretive beauty...
R86, true, we all need therapy though.
R88 = R72
Um, no. Tell your therapist.
R78, you are one crazy cunt. Go suck Judy's decomposing, worm-filled crotch. And stick your tongue in Anne Edward's crusty, rancid pussy too, while you're at it, you insane bitch.
For anyone who's interested, Anne Edward's biography is worshipful and respectful towards poor, dear, used, mistreated Judy...in other words, a complete, biased bore that doesn't even begin to touch on the sordid reality of Judy Garland's life and behavior.
"Judy" Gerod Frank's book on Garland is better, as is the bio of her by Peter Finch, "Rainbow; the stormy life of Judy Garland, And if you REALLY want dirt, read David Shipman's bio, "Judy Garland: the secret life of an American Legend." Gerald Clarke's "Get Happy", is biased in favor of Garland and puts forth the untrue notion that Garland's drug addiction was in no way her own fault (It was her evil mother's fault! And MGM's fault! And Louis B. Mayer's fault!) and takes a lot of Judy's absurdities at face value (she claimed everybody at MGM was hot for her bod when she was an unprepossessing teenager and that Mayer himself wanted her sex). But if you like dirt, you'll find plenty of it in Clarke's book.
There are books about Judy by Lorna Luft, Mickey Deans, Mel Torme, John Meyer and many others. Read 'em all, if you choose. Some are better than others. But for God's sake, don't believe the lunatic weirdo at R78 that Anne Edward's biography is the end-all and be-all of Judy Garland. As Judy bios go, it's nothing.
R90 i'll force you to suck my 'cat' if you continue being the uncontrollable cute fucking dork you are. I bet you haven't read Anne Edwards' biography of Judy. You just spit and spit without having read a single word out of it.
Stop flaunting your cock of a monkey. I'm not really in the mood to clap my hands for it.
There will never be a completely accurate account of Judy Garland. It was Liza who said years ago that "you knew her best when you realized you didn't know her at all."
I personally hadn't read of her being bipolar or manic depressive until recent years. Judy's mental conditions were actually from years of living on "speeders" ie Benzedrine, Dexedrine, Ritalin et al. When you speed you don't eat properly or sleep properly and your mind starts to play tricks on you. Hallucinations, paranoid delusional thinking, suicidal thoughts. These are all things that happened with Judy Garland. They happen to anyone who chooses these types of drugs and tries to live a normal live.
Nothing about Judy's life was ever much "normal." I would guess everybody could agree on that.
Miss Patty Duke, Anne Edwards mentions that quote of Liza about her mother. Her book about Judy Garland is really good. It's not a gossipy porn and yet it's not a beautifying lie.
R93 Yes, I read Anne's book when it was first issued. I've read most of the books on Judy. Christopher Finch and Gerald Frank's books were also good. Frank didn't use all the information he received out of respect for the family. Gerald Clarke's biggest problem in his Garland biography was that you'd have thought he was sitting right alongside Judy. Is anybody else surprised this is the book they are making the Hathaway film from?
Did you read John Meyer's "Heartbreaker?" I think he captured Judy's last few months probably better than all of them.
Miss Patty Duke, to be honest, i haven't read John Meyer's book. I definitely will though in the future, because i think i should trust your opinion. You seem objective and you seem to really have read and examined things about Judy.
R95 Is that your artwork of Judy and Liza? It's very well done.
Thank you because I do think I am objective and have been told I'm a voice of reason throughout my life. If you look at most things you'll find that they aren't often all one way or another. There is always that middle ground.
[quote]Judy didn't really like cock
Not according to what I've read. Apparently she had Frank "Sizemeat" Sinatra as a fuck buddy.
She complained, "All he wants is for me to suck him, which is fine, but a gal's gotta get fucked now and then!"
R97 Again, from Gerald Clarke. See everything he wrote seems to be verbatim. Like he was sitting right there in the most intimate of settings. That was my problem with his biography on Judy.
No, no it's not my artwork. :)
It is Jenny Lorimer's.
R97, God...please don't start that again.
[quote]No, no it's not my artwork.
Well, in fairness, who WOULD admit to creating that kitsch?
Correction: I said Peter Finch authored "Rainbow: the stormy life of Judy Garland" when I meant Christopher Finch. So sorry.
R81/83/88/91/93/95/99 hasn't been taking his meds. Poor bastard, he's raving like a loon. He has a fixation on Anne Edward's Judy bio ( I did read some of it long ago, but it was so lame I didn't finish it) and the notion that Judy was a "repressed insecure lesbo!" What a kook! What a pathetic wackadoo!
Was Judy Garland repressed? I don't think so. Insecure? Definitely. A lesbo? Judy a LESBO?
Having a few fucks with women as a diversion doesn't classify as lesbianism, especially when the woman in question can't get enough of cock. Judy Garland was bi-sexual, but definitely preferred men. That's a fact of her life that's been established for a long, long time.
Is the Mickey Deans bio worth reading?
Which bio went into details about Judy in the last months of her life staying with a husband and wife in Norway, I believe? Denmark?
Deans had to go to London for some reason and left her there?
R103 I believe that's the Edward's book. They had a dog named Eddie that Judy loved. Judy was literally dieing at this point in her life. They speak of her not being able to eat and having extreme bouts of constipation. They also relate how she'd douse herself with Jean Patou's Joy perfume (a favorite along with Ma Griffe) to disguise an underlying body odor. I believe the organs were shutting down and her body was chemically toxic from the years of prescription abuse.
"That girl could do anything, except look after herself."
Thx r104. That info was rather shocking - that a great like Judy Garland should find herself in such a situation.
The Gerold Frank biography is quite good. Lots of Hollywood stories and he does not shy away from the bad stuff.
And the Mickey Deans book? Is it worth reading?
The Mickey Deans book - instead of telling HIS experience with Judy, like the good but creepy John Meyer book - is a bad biography of Judy. Not worth reading, imho.
Joan Crawford said Judy should 'snap out of it!' and stop blaming her personal troubles on MGM. She thought Judy was a spoiled brat who never learned to take a punch.
R101, I think Judy was bi-sexual, but the suggestion that she was a lesbian should not be so offensive to you.
I think Judy may have experimented with the MGM publicist (who was actually a studio spy) Betty Asher. That's from the Finch book, at least he was the first to state this may have been. Otherwise I haven't read that Judy had affairs with a plethora of women. I wouldn't call that bisexual because lots of people have gone "there" and not stayed. But I hate labels. It's not offensive to me if she was bisexual or a full blooded lesbian.
R90 you rave like a loon. You are so pathetic that you cannot see that R81 is a woman. How can anyone take you seriously? You cannot see through your nose. I like her style, i can't say that i like yours though, soz. I have read Edwards' book too, and i think that it is indeed very nice. That goes without a question. Are you serious that you found that book boring?
R110, unsupported or false "suggestions" stated as fact are extremely frustrating to people who honestly care about historical fact.
Read Torme's book if you want to go on a rant. What a mean mouthed, overinflated bag of gas he was! I found it hilarious that Judy and George Schlatter used to piss Torme' off when they told fart jokes. That's funny as hell. For the mess she was Judy was a riot. Mia Farrow said she was the funniest woman she ever knew. Lucille Ball said that too!
Sure, but why is this the case only with women? You guys call any male celeb that you think might have been with a guy, bi or a closeted gay.
Coulda fooled me R111. You still sound obsessed and offended. From what I've read, Judy had bisexual relationships right up to the last years of her life. Tell us your first-hand side of the story.
I just found this photo of Judy with Debbie Reynolds. Look at the colour of Debbie's dress and then the colour of Judy's lips. They matched it perfectly!
"I think Judy was bi-sexual, but the suggestion that she was a lesbian should not be so offensive to you."
Lesbianism I don't find offensive. Outright falsehoods are what I find offensive, and it is totally false that Judy Garland was a repressed lesbian or any kind of lesbian. I'd say she sometimes indulged in sex with another woman, but it wasn't a priority of hers.
Here's Gerald Clarke's take on the subject of Judy's bi-curious nature:
"Judy felt frisky with others as well, including, almost certainly, at least two or three women, the only relationships about which she remained mum. When Harry Rubin informed her that he had heard she was involved with another woman, her response was uncharacteristically vague. "You know," she said, "when you've eaten everything in the world there is to eat, you've got to find new things." Women were, in any event, never more than a side dish on Judy's menu--men were always her main course--and although a few always followed her around from city to city, she was not drawn to lesbians. One, in fact, gave her a possibly lasting fright by trying to rip off her clothes in a restaurant lavatory--she actually succeeded in tearing Judy's blouse--and Judy was saved from further trauma only by the belated intervention of Rubin and the restaurant manager."
[quote]She was so sick, men could not fuck her without killing her. Cock was something that Judy needed in her life but not inside her holes. She needed the protection that male arms could give her. That's what she was craving for.
LOL wut? The loonies on this thread....
R119, you are also R90 and nobody should pay attention to the gossipy unreliable books you prefer when it comes to Judy. You bitch, you love dirt and you think that Judy is 100% the person that that shithole of a writer with the name Gerald Clarke is writing about. You are not objective. You are stuck on the dirt, malicious feisty cock, and you think that dirt is the absolute truth, while you give no shit about the other shades of Judy's life.
You lesbiophobic piece of trash! It hurts you so much as it seems that inside Judy there was a scared hungry lesbo as well.
R121 = PSYCHO
- Is English-As-A-Second-Language Lesbian Troll the same uberfan who relentlessly posts in some of the Elizabeth Taylor threads?
- Is there a thread where Ava Gardner's "lesbian looks" can be discussed without recrimination?
- Ditto for Tyrone Powers's gayman tendencies which demanded he fantasize about himself while he fucked Lana Turner?
- Does anyone believe Malicious Feisty Cock sounds awesome?
- Will all this end in tears?
All the great Hollywood stars were lesbian, even the men. Or should I say, ESPECIALLY the men.
R119, the absurd "lesbian bathroom attack" story was a reworked by Clarke -- it originally came from a joke made by Judy to Johnny Meyer. Clarke gave it a homophobic twist.
I never understood one thing about the fabulous Judy. Why does the fresh-faced young woman at 17 in the Wizard of Oz look nothing like the middle-aged hag a mere 15 years later in A Star Is Born? And I don't believe it was the drugs. She was still relatively young and the effects of substance abuse, particularly pills, are not that dramatic in someone in their early 30s.
R126, one of the main reasons she looks so different in "The Wizard of Oz" and "A Star is Born" is that the makeup style was very different. Still, there are some moments in the later movie where she does look very much like her younger self.
In A Star is Born, Judy was 20 pounds fatter -- THAT'S why.
"Why does the fresh-faced young woman at 17 in the Wizard of Oz look nothing like the middle-aged hag a mere 15 years later in A Star Is Born?"
It was a combination of things over many years: drug addiction, alcoholism, mental illness, severe weight gain (or loss). Combine that with the stress involved in being a movie star (at that time actors were like factory workers, grinding out movies in rapid speed) and it all adds up to a pretty difficult life. Of course, Judy was to blame for a lot of her torubles, but it doubtless wasn't easy becoming working your ass off and becoming rich and famous at such a young age. But other young stars didn't end up being hopeless drug addicts who squandered their money and entered into doomed marriages with wildly unsuitable partners. Judy was just that tragic Hollywood type; unstable and unwilling to make drastic changes to save her health and sanity.
R123, i feel almost flattered that you stalk me, but you and i...well that is not going to happen baby. Eat a banana and get over me.
I've been avoiding this thread since it popped up, but decided to look in today...
Y'all are nucking futs!!!
I'm simply a fan, ESL Lesbian Troll. Continue your ESL Lesbian Trolling and I will continue to adore you. I require nothing else.
I dedicate this video to R132. See it, in case you haven't already... and troll-dar me and feel your heart pounding madly.
It's so sad that Judy got just exploited by all her husbands. Really, she was so naive! Mark Herron and Mickey Deans were the slimest and most insincere douchebags. She should aim higher after her notorious divorce from Luft, but i guess she had completely lost it.
R137 Judy had wasted away at this point. Was she barely over 70lbs by this time?
Judy: “I tried my damnedest to believe in that rainbow that I tried to get over and I couldn’t, SO WHAT? Lots of people can't!"
Finally on June 22, 1969 she did.
In those pictures with Mickey Deans she looks like a 104 year old troll.
In interviews after she married Deans she declared him the only man she ever really loved, the only man who ever really loved her, that she never had any "fun" until she met Mickey, that she knew her life with him was going to be deliriously happy and wonderful: "This is it. For the first time in my life, I am really happy. Finally, I am loved.”
She was dead three months later.
She probably said something similar about each man she married. Judy loved being "in love."
R140, omg, did she really design this?
Looool! That's crazy! Utterly insane.
Anyway, we love Judy~~~~~
She said that about every husband, R141.
Judy Garland, according to those who knew her, had very little fashion sense for clothes. She relied on designers to sketch up things for her to wear. She would then decide if she liked it and the clothes would be hand made for her. Both Ray Aghayan and Bob Mackie (who did her televison series) have stated that she was very hard to dress. She had no waist and was all legs. Aghayan said it would have been near impossible for her to go into a department store and buy something off the rack.
Maybe for reasons of monies, or her own diverse creativity, Judy decided to do some of her own designs. Her Deans wedding dress is one of the worst things she ever wore. Made worse by the cap. I believe this gown is the one she was laid to rest in? Maybe someone else knows for sure?
Laid to rest in it? No, she was buried in it.
R146 Laid to rest definition: to inter (a dead body); bury
If ya want to be picky, her body was actually put into a drawer and or entombed and not buried in the earth.
I wanna know if Judy died or if she "passed away."
The postings about Ava being a lesbian are complete conjecture and silly. No one who knew her ever suggested it.
Some of the wildest rumors and craziest stories about stars become accepted facts without any evidence to back them up.
Judy was buried in a yellow dress. I'm not sure her 1969 wedding outfit was yellow.
R151 no, you're wrong about that! This is Gerold Frank from his biography JUDY
For a day and a night, more than twenty thousand persons had filed by the coffin in which Judy lay, under a glass covering -- Campbell's had never had so large a crowd, greater even than at Valentino's funeral, so that they had been forced to remain open all night, so enormous and continuous were the crowds filing by to look for a moment at Judy, lying in state in the grayish blue chiffon gown in which she had been married to Mickey little more than six months before, in the casket lined with pale-blue velvet, wearing, after the French fashion, a triple gold wedding band on the small finger of her right hand, which clasped a black prayer book.
Judy had wanted her makeup man from her television series Gene Hibbs to do her makeup if she died. Eva Gabor said she "could not spare his service" as he was doing Gabor's makeup for the Tv series "Green Acres." Liza contacted Charlie Schram who had done Judy's "Wizard of Oz" Dorothy makeup to lend his service. Schram complied and so thirty years after completion of Oz he made Judy up one last time.
I'm very surprised that not a single photo of Judy in her casket was ever taken.
Not surprising R154. They collected cell phones at the door.
R149/150, you're in the wrong thread.
R154 I've thought about this too!? They had massive security around Campbell's Funeral Home at the time. Anyone seen with a camera would have been removed or camera confiscated no doubt. Yet, something tells me somewhere someone may in fact have a picture of Miss Garland in death? I guess I'm glad nothing has surfaced. I like to remember people when they are still living.
Are there any elder gay members here who were part of the 22,000 to view Judy Garland?
Judy's wedding reception after her marriage to Mickey Deans reflected the state of her life at the time. It was a disaster:
"Despite the long celebrity guest-list, not one of Judy’s famous friends made it to the reception held at Quaglino’s the large and expensive restaurant situated in Bury Street just south of Piccadilly. Several hundred people were invited and only fifty made it to the function.
The glasses of champagne remained largely undrunk and an ostentatious three-tiered cake remained mostly uneaten. “I can’t understand it,” Judy was reported to have said in next day’s Sunday Express, “they all said they’d come”. Even her daughter Liza Minnelli, who had turned 23 just three days before, had called her mother to say “I can’t make it, Mama, but I promise I’ll come to your next one.” Another journalist apparently wrote that the reception was “the saddest and most pathetic party I have ever attended”.
R149, sorry to burst your bubble darling, but even Judy was more feminine than Ava. Ava was just luscious and sexy, but she clearly emitted lesbian vibes. It was so obvious!!!!!! Admit it, it won't harm your poor heart i hope.
Look at Judy's expression in 2:46. I think Martha took her by surprise for real in that moment.
To the responses about Ms. Garland's personal life-seriously, when you break down in life, you do may be capable of doing anything sexually under the sun that you later regret. Especially with bi-polar issues. I cannot believe the digs that people do to these century-long, legends. How can you possibly take a diss at Dorothy of Oz is beyond me.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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