Why were so many people upset when they cast Madonna as Evita?
There couldn't BE a better symbol for what kind of person Eva Peron was than Madonna.
Because she could neither sing nor act well enough to pull off the role.
I thought she deserved an Oscar. I loved that movie.
Meryl Streep openly, publicly bitched about not being cast. She really wanted that part.
I don't recall if she directly attacked Madonna, but I do remember that she strongly implied that she could sing and, well, Madonna can't.
Whatever. They must not have any hard feelings because I saw them seated next to each other at the Golden Globes.
r1 has it.
And she chewed into the role like she thought she was performing in the 20th century's answer to Hamlet. It's Andrew friggin Lloyd Weber for Christ's sake.
Forgot to add that I enjoyed Evita and I didn't mind Madonna's performance.
Streep, however, would have been superb.
But you are correct, OP... There is an odd match of actress to character... though I'm sure the irony and unflattering parallels were totally lost on Madge and her fans.
I would have preferred an actress/singer who better captured the part, or at least remotely captured the part.
And Madonna's taking for herself "Another Suitcase in Another Hall," and then getting ALW to write the insipid "You Must Love Me," were simply vile.
I wasn't upset that she was cast. And for the reasons you've given, OP, I thought there was something inspired about it. I simply wasn't all that impressed with her performance, although I wanted to like her in it; even though I've never been a big fan.
Evita was and still is considered a heroine and a saint to Argentinians. Madonnas' personal lifestyle does not equal saint to many. Ironic because the real "Evita" apparently had a similar sexual history. Did people excuse her actions because she was illegitimate and desperately poor in a class-conscious society?
Meryl is the far better actress but I can't see her as someone who would use her body to get ahead, or who would inspire extreme lust in a military man used to dating teenagers.
Wasn't Eva Peron a narcissistic, ambitious, power hungry woman who used her pussy to get to the pinnacle of fame and notoriety? Not much of a stretch for Madonna. I know the Argentines are still pissed to this day because Eva is practically a deity in that country.
Streep? As Evita?!
I still can't believe that she never had extensive voice lessons until the filming of that movie. She was almost 15 years into her career by then and that was supposedly her first time learning to sing from the diaphragm. I thought she had some brief lessons around the time "Dick Tracy" was filmed so she could sing Sondheim songs, but still...
The version of "Rainbow Tour" on the Broadway cast album has the line "She's the new world Madonna with the golden touch" and the line in the movie was "She's the lady of the new world with the golden touch".
They should have left the original line in.
I would like to see the film. I saw Evita on Broadway and didn't really like it.
They should have used Patti Lupone in the movie. Nobody can match her perfect diction.
I remember reading that Michelle Pfeiffer took singing lessons to auditon for the role. She could've done something interesting with Evita. She has the sexiness that Meryl has never had.
R14, WHY didn't you like the Broadway version?
Did DL ever talk about hot Banderas in Evita? Is that his "real singing voice?" The spectacle and coordination of the large numbers of bit players made the movie worth seeing for that alone.
It's a pretty inept, leaden movie, and its failure is not Madge's fault.
Alan Parker's worst film, ever.
It was actually perfect casting if you appreciate the zeitgeist moment then of the most famous woman in the entertainment world playing one of the most famous women on the world stage who had become even more of a legend with the Broadway musical based on her life. And stop the nonsense that Madonna couldn't sing the role. Her voice was in fine form in the film. She was robbed of an Oscar nomination, truth be told.
[quote]Did DL ever talk about hot Banderas in Evita? Is that his "real singing voice?" The spectacle and coordination of the large numbers of bit players made the movie worth seeing for that alone.
He was cast only because he was hot at the moment. He can't sing for shit.
Here, Streep denies saying she wanted to "rip Madonna's throat out."
The New York Times, the "paper of record" made that up.
The West End production was fantastic. The movie was okay.
I never went to a Madonna concert. And I generally don't like Madonna. However, she was born to play Evita! Loved the movie. Thought it was fast-paced and easy to watch.
Meryl's ego is even bigger than Madonna's.
Madonna did a fine job. Not a great job, but a good one. And you can tell she worked hard on it. The whole thing is such a dull mess, though, there's little she could have done for it.
Streep could not do the role. She cannot capture working class sexuality.
The real problem with Madonna's performance in Evita is that she is never able to pull you into the story so the audience is always left feeling distanced from the film. I'm not sure if that's her fault or Parker's.
Ultimately, it's not a movie about Eva Perone but more about a country and how it views her.
Patrick Wilson (in drag) would make the ultimate EVITA.
Because Madonnna is a talent free cunt.
Despite heavy vocal morphing and a lot of lessons she sounds like the shrill wench she is.
[quote] Wasn't Eva Peron a narcissistic, ambitious, power hungry woman who used her pussy to get to the pinnacle of fame and notoriety?
If this is all you know about Evita Peron then go educate yourself. She helped institute progressive programs to help the working classes and poor in Argentina. For this she was castigated by the elite and the rich who didn't gie a damn about the poor or working classes. Even as the first lady she was treated shabbily by the snobby wives of society. Why do you think she was adored by the masses? For her narcissism and pussy? Hardly.
Her programs were attacked as "communism" and destructive of the upper classes: programs similar to those in the US and elsewhere - workman's compensation, social security, medicare, medicaid, proper housing and education, taxes on corporations like unemployment taxes to fund some of these programs (which was of course labeled extortion).
She also helped to legally end the stigma and inheritance disadvantage of "illegitimate" children. I'm sure partially motivated by her own status and that of her siblings.
She was an actress - though minor and not very good - when she met Juan Peron. He was very in love with her and I think she with him.
I rather enjoyed Evita. Madonna was entertaining in the role though who knows what someone else could have done with it. I wish they would make a really good non-musical movie about her life.
R30, do stop interrupting the adults. Cunt, yes. Talent free? Bitch to the please.
Geez, you people act like Evita is a combination of Chekhov and The Ring Cycle. It's a dated little 70's musical. They waited too long to film it and needed some major star power to get it off the ground (same reason she'll probably do Sunset Boulevard). I'm sure they held their nose when they hired Madge, but she was adequate. Just a two hour rock video.
Transparent bitch atR33 - do you feel better after that spate of name dropping?
The fucking Ring Cycle - twat, get OVER yourself.
[quote]And Madonna's taking for herself "Another Suitcase in Another Hall," and then getting ALW to write the insipid "You Must Love Me," were simply vile.
Well, considering she didn't do either and had no power to if she wanted, as both decisions were done pre-casting, thanks for playing and showing your assholiness.
[quote]I remember reading that Michelle Pfeiffer took singing lessons to auditon(sic) for the role. She could've done something interesting with Evita. She has the sexiness that Meryl has never had.
Here's Pfeiffer's audio audition of "Buenos Aires." She's really not that good.
R31, my favorite Eva Peron quote: "When the rich think about the poor, they have poor ideas." So true.
I hate Madonna. She...she...she...RAPED ME!!! She raped me HARD!!!!
Oh my god that Pfeiffer clip is terrible.
I agree that Madonna's casting was inspired. Was she as good a singer/actress as some other candidates? NO. Could she have been better in this or that scene? YES.
But, the movie was a sort of extended music video, the type that she was the biggest star of. Plus, there was a strong physical resemblance to Evita. But mostly, it was about subtext. Who she was in the music industry, her recognizable face, the medium that most loved her, her fame, her personality - she brought all that to Evita without singing a note.
When Bitchface did the soundtrack for the Evita film, her parts were recorded over and over and then pieced together syllable by syllable in the studio to get something that didn't sound like a cat getting fucked.
So let's knock off all the talk she was "born" to play a role that required a real singer.
[quote] my favorite Eva Peron quote: "When the rich think about the poor, they have poor ideas." So true.
She was seeing the future and channeling Willard Romney.
Meryl got even when she stole Madonna's role in MUSIC OF THE HEART.
Madonna has been good in several movies, and she more than deserved an oscar nomination for this. It was a bizzare year in being that several high profiled actresses gave oscar worthy performances and were all snubbed. (Debbie Reynolds, Glenn Close, and even Courtney Love)
Diane Keaton should have won hands down that year for MARVIN'S ROOM. FARGO is vastly overrated.
She must have been uncomfortable in her brown contacts. She never stopped blimking. That being said, the new blu ray is glorious looking, sharp pristine.
R41, there is no proof of that.
[quote]Diane Keaton should have won hands down that year for MARVIN'S ROOM. FARGO is vastly overrated.
Not to mention, Frances McDormand's part was really supporting.
[quote]Meryl got even when she stole Madonna's role in MUSIC OF THE HEART.
She didn't steal it. Madonna dropped out at the last minute due to "creative differences" with Wes Craven. Roberta Guaspari and her class even performed with her at the 1998 MTV VMAs in September 1998. Craven then pleaded to Streep, who had to learn the violin fast before shooting. 6 weeks I think it was, while Madonna had been preparing for months.
She was good in the role, but should have stopped right there, and gone out on a hight note.
She had shown everybody that she could act, in a project tailored to her talents. What else was there to prove?
But unfortunately, she felt encouraged to branch out.
Her desire to be an actress has buried her musical career, which she completely sidelined after Ray of Light.
These days, her musical career is a joke. And the reason for that is the success of Evita.
She still sounded good on Ray of Light, due to the singing lessons she had taken for Evita.
If what you say is true, she would've sounded good on all subsequent albums, as they would've fixed her voice in a similar manner, for every record.
Instead, she's sounded liker her fomer self again from American Life onwards.
I thought it was really good casting at the time of the announcement but I hated the result.
"Madonna has been good in several movies"
Utter bullshit, r43!
You've got to be kidding.
She was rightly raked over the coals for nearly every film project she's ever touched.
Madonna was bearable as an actress twice: in Evita, where she only had to sing; and in Desperately Seeking Susan, where she is playing herself.
She's fun to watch in those two, and a nightmare in every other film.
SHE CANNOT DELIVER THE SPOKEN WORD.
Secondly, Diane Keaton was competent in Marvin's Room, but in no way was she deserving of an Oscar.
Where are you pulling all this shit from?
She was up against Brenda Blethyn and Emily Watson, who gave two of the strongest performances of the entire 1990s.
And Frances McDormand was much better than Keaton as well.
Pfeiffer is thin: thin voice, thin acting chops and emaciated body. I remember how her turn in The Fabulous Baker Boys was lauded, but casting her as a sexy cabaret chanteuse was ill-advised.
I thought Madonna was great casting, although she was too old for the part. However, Andrew Lloyd Webber slowed down the tempos and castrated his own score. There's a rawness and sense of urgency to the OBC that did not transfer to the screen.
Add to that Madonna's over-articulated singing ("so Mach-i-a-VELL me") and the entire sound of the film came off as too rehearsed and polished. It seemed to me that Evita, which is my favorite theatrical score, got the life sucked out of it by ALW and Madonna. And Alan Parker didn't do the story any favors by making Evita a sympathetic character. People were crying in the movie theater when she dies - I couldn't believe how wrong they got it, though I'm sure the real Evita Peron would have approved the tears at the end of her own movie.
The problem is that Evita just never worked as a film, and couldn't have possibly ever worked since the entire score is narrative with an ounce of plot. Alan Parker tried, but all he did was create a 2 and a half hour anemic montage.
R31 - I know all about Eva's good deeds and how she advocated for the poor, but the Madonna/Eva parallels are there to an extent.
Didn't mean to be offensive
Banderas will be in a shot, and he has the presence of a real movie star---which means that he's able to project a lot of personality just standing still. And then the camera focuses on Madonna, who looks great but has the allure of wet cardboard.
All I remember of that movie was the soldiers in the shower.
its actually one of my favorite movie..i think she did rad in it and i dont like madonna at all
Meryl Streep was a spoiled rich girl who used to hang out with George W. Bush at Yale. She could not have played Evita. Look at how she butchered Margaret Thatcher, who was at least middle class. Meryl is best in things like "Postcards from the Edge" in which her well lubricated background is featured. Madonna is better in Evita because she had the whole striving sensibility Meryl Streep has been unable to interject into a single role. If Madonna is not the best singer and actress, well Evita wasn't either. She was a hustler, and few singers would have done that better than Madonna. I saw Patti LuPone do Evita in 1980 and I thought I had never seen a worse performance by any Broadway actress in a leading role. Now LuPone is a pushy shrill bitch, but her inauthenticity on the political stump couldn't have won a single vote. And her singing was like cats fighting.
Too bad Olivia Newton John and John Travolta didn't do it. It was theirs for the taking.
r57 = troll.
Streep was entirely believable as working class Karen Silkwood, same thing in the Deer Hunter. In Ironweed she's a hobo, and it's a triumph in acting.
She also nailed Margaret Thatcher.
Madonna is the worst actor in the film, and a film cannot survive when its worst actor is in every single shot.
She's not terrible, she projects the appropriate emotions in every scene, she's competent. But she's not charismatic, or fascinating, or compelling, or original. She doesn't draw us in or surprise us, she's not enough of an actor to know how. Whatever made her such a success in real life doesn't come through.
And it doesn't help that Banderas blows her off the screen every time he appears, and he's far from a great actor.
Not a Madonna fan but I thought she was fine in Evita. The problem with that movie goes all the way back to Tim Rice's terrible book. Harold Prince's staging papered over the book's weaknesses, the film, as a different medium, just magnified them. Madonna was fine, Parker did his best, the material sucks.
On paper- great casting....poor pretty girl rises to the top by sleeping around and conniving everyone.....but Madonna is just too light weight as an actress-there was no fire and brimstone. If you've seen or heard any of Evita's speeches, she was fiery and rallied the throngs. And the tempos in the movie were so sloooowwwww. Eva did help the poor by taxing the rich and making corporations contribute to her foundation which was a scam, closing newspapers that didn't agree with Peronist policies, closing companies by making false health accusations against them and exiling thousands of citizens. The Perons were responsible for the collapse of Argentina's economy which was thriving before their rise to power.
A moment I'd point to of Madonna's ineptitude in the role is a small moment early on in the movie when she's sitting at a bar and presses the arm of a would-be "dance partner"-the song being sung is Another Suitcase In Another Hall. The look on her face should be raw fear and desperation but Madonna is so fucking stiff. it didn't help that she had dark contact lenses in so she couldn't show any emotion with her own eyes-she looks like a space alien at times.
Actually a lot of people shared OP's opinion and thought Madonna as Evita was good casting. among other things, there was a general consensus Streep was getting too old for the part.
Plus, in film form, the musical is just a giant video (Madonna's strong suit), so you really did not need the acting (debateable) or 8-shows-a-week singing skills the stage musical required.
I seriously remember a lot of people concurring with the casting and waiting in anticipation for the film to open.
Antonio Banderas, on the other hand, basically just posed throughout the flick
[quote]She never stopped blimking.
Madonna's blind as a bat - ALL contacts make her blink a lot. Watch her in any interview. It's very distracting and bizarre.
The first time I noticed I honestly thought she had something caught/stuck in her eye.
Blink Blink Buy Blink My Blink Blink Albums - maybe that's how she does it
Yeah, R65, she blinks a lot in that moment I was referring, too-it's very odd and it seems to be an attempt to be pleading with her eyes.
I'm upset when Meryl Streep was cast in MAMA MIA instead of Madonna. Meryl couldn't sing well and her dancing was meh!
Madonna in "Mamma Mia"?
How could she possibly play a woman who's embarassed by her slutty past!
Oh, R68, you gave me an idea-a remake of Buona Sera, Mrs. Campbell for Madonna!
Meryl and Madonna should do CATS together.
R62 gives the right-wing explanation, which is not necessarily the true one.
Silkwood was a terrible movie, largely because of Streep's inability to play authentic working class dyke. She seemed like an innocent upper middle class housewife with none of the wry confidence the real K. Silwood had.
R. 72 I agree about Silkwood. Meryl Streep is overrated as an actress.
R72, If Streep is overrated as an actress, then why has she won so many Academy Awards? Just great PR?
Politics. The Bush family.
Fascism rules America.
Streep is very good at accents and mannerisms - and these things are not the same thing as acting. I won't pretend like I can judge her, as I can't act in the slightest, but I do think she's wildly overrated for work that is mostly wigs and dialect.
I'm with R19 about Alan Parker doing an awful job as director. The whole movie is leaden and solemn and heavy-handed. The cinematography is all in a dreary brown color tone. The funeral sequence is impressive but that's about it. Buenos Aires should have been an explosive number and it's just a series of shots of Madonna tango dancing with various partners.
[quote]Eva did help the poor by taxing the rich and making corporations contribute to her foundation which was a scam, closing newspapers that didn't agree with Peronist policies, closing companies by making false health accusations against them and exiling thousands of citizens.
You make her sound like a policy maker. How wrong you are. She was flashy, dramatic and convenient. But she was no Eleanor Roosevelt ... not even Hillary.
President Eva?! Please. She was at most a figurehead second-marriage first lady who represented Argentina when her husband needed her to do so - with the poor and with European gossips and oogling politicians.
Otherwise, Argentina's policies belonged to one Don Juan Peron. Remember Evita wasn't long for this world and he easily and quickly re-married.
Evita is to Diana Ross as Juan Peron is to Berry Gordy. They both moved on after their leading ladies left them.
R72, Karen Silkwood wasn't a dyke, why would Streep play her as one?
Madonna was quite good in League of Their Own, btw... She's good in Evita but the problem, as mentioned, is Alan Parker, who is awful.
And now she wants to be Vice President . . .
Yes. Not good PR, GREAT PR.
Before she got her first role. She bought her first publicist. Money buys publicity. Publicity buys Oscars.
Re: Alan Parker. I liked 'Fame' and 'Midnight Express'.
EVita was the last decent thing Madonna has done. She was great in that.
They should do a remake with Susan Boyle.
R78, was not a second-wife first lady in the way you're painting her. Peron's first wife died of cancer in 1938 after almost 10 years of marriage. Eva did not enter the picture until 1944, so 6 years later. And he did not marry Isabel until 1961, 9 years after Eva's death. So he didn't just move on to other spouses like you implied, but he did have a penchant for pubescent girls and resumed with young mistresses after Eva died.
Though indeed Eva was Peron's second wife, his first wife died while he was still a small-time politician. By the time he met Eva, he had risen through the ranks of the army and especially gained considerable power when the faction he joined, the GOU (Grupo de Oficiales Unidos, or Group of United OFficers)), overthrew the civilian president in 1943. Peron became Secretary of Labor, and later Secretary of State, in quick succession. After he met Eva, he was appointed Vice President. So when he became President in 1946, Eva was his first First Lady.
Anyway, after Peron's inauguration, she commandeered office in the labor ministry, and, unlike previous First Ladies, who took no part in government and were happy just being mere ornaments at social events and hosting dinner parties, Eva took an active role in running the state. By 1951 she had helped women get the vote and had established the women's branch of the Peronist Party. For the first time in its history, women became active in politics, even becoming mayors and other posts. Eva was also head of the CGT (Confederación General del Trabajo, or General Confederation of Labor), the largest trade union in Argentina, and was de facto Vice President, taking on all the duties of the VP except for military.
Eva Peron was not just a figurehead; she wielded political power and influence in her own right. Though it is an exaggeration that her political prestige and power eventually eclipsed Peron's. Only in death is she more revered than Peron, and in the 1960s young revolutionaries used her image (not Peron's) to rally opposition against the military dictatorships.
Peron realized early on that Eva had passion and political instincts and often consulted her about state affairs. Before they were married and she was just his mistress, he allowed her to sit in during cabinet meetings, which rankled the other officers. Later on, he turned to her for advice, and she became his hatchetman, doing his dirty work (like removing people from posts) and dealing with them personally (like addressing the railway workers when they threatened to strike after the Argentine economy began to falter).
When she wanted to run for Vice President, it's because she wanted the title. Peron asked her, "You already have the power, why do you want the title?"
Eva Peron didn't change the politics in Argentina, but she learned how to play the game and played it to her (and Peron's) advantage.
Madge can't act. With so many talented people around, to hand that role to her is stunning.
But yes, all in all, the musical is stupid too. Rock on Sondheim!
i Remembered Madonna being a BITCH to that gay guy when he worked at E! and was interviewing her at the time the film came out. I was shocked because I was young at the time (like 11-12) so I had this image of Madonna as the fun loving girl I saw in "Who's that Girl" and her "fun" music videos. From that time onwards I realized her to be the CUNT she is known for.
[quote]to that gay guy when he worked at E! and was interviewing her at the time the film came out
Must have been Steve Kmetko.
"that gay guy when he worked at E!"
Gee, thanks for narrowing that down. . .There have been so few. . .
I like the film and I liked her casting. She had the requisite sluttiness, calculation and glamour. Oh the clothes. Although I hated her "Argentina" dress. Yeah I know it was more accurate. It just wasn't enough for that moment.
I liked the open wide sets and locations for it, all the while still maintaining the dance like flow that was a hallmark of the stage play. The stage show was very cinematic in it's own way.
But most of all I liked that they reinterpreted Che. Making him not Che Guevara but basically her male alter ego. This Che was who Evita would have been had she been born a man.
And I liked her extended death. Watching her suffer and deteriorate, the delicious irony of her overly bright candle burning out.
They should have found a way to show Antonio's cock in the movie.
OK, so is Antonio at least bi? Either way he is very charming. It was fun flirting with him. And how come he looks so different? Just the haircut? And how did he really get from point A to point B? I'm sure many used the casting couch; was it just luck and charm that got him off of it? Oh and thanks for the pics. I know that I'm not the only one that enjoyed them.
R96 - I've wondered if he had to get on his knees and do Pedro Almodovar a favor back in the day?
I was upset every time "You Must Love Me" came on the radio.
It was like listening to a guitar being tuned. Such a bad song...
Only the speak-and-spell rhymes on her latest album "MDNA" compare, which is like an entire album of the song "American Life."
The only good music that came from that melatonin film was the club mix of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina," and even that was just ok.
Patti Lupone...I mean, Jane Doe!!!
r98, you are so right about FlopDNA sounding like American Life - the song. (AL the album was terrible too, but had one or two good songs, which FlopDNA doesn't have).
In any case, Madonna just released a *new video* for 'Turn Up The Radio'.
It's basically the 'Music' video re-hashed, i.e. a chauffeur driving her around in a car, with Madonna picking up party people along the way. All this set in Rome and the Italian countryside.
Just why she even bothers with the video/new single is beyond me. The song is still a dragging, shapeless mess, with over-processed vocals, inane lyrics, and generic production. It's boring to listen to.
It will stall at # 108, if released as a single. Just like 'Girl Gone Wild' did.
Why does she feel this need to humiliate herself so?
A thread about Antonio, his cock, and rentboy past would be better.
Really? In this day and age? Maddy, stop reliving the days when you were relevant.
ANY time Madonna tries to 'act' it is like a clanging pie plate suffering a spoon beating.
Didn't Antonio do some gay films in Spain?
I want a thread on Antonio.
This has probably already been answered earlier, but the person who claimed that Madonna "stole" "Another Suitcase In Another Hall" and made ALW and TR write "You Must Love Me" is completely misinformed. Alan Parker wanted Evita to sing that song, as he was trying to portray her in a more favourable manner than the stage show. "You Must Love Me" was written solely to give the composers of the musical a chance at an Oscar, since none of the original material was eligible. It was a move that paid off for them. As for Madonna herself, she won the Golden Globe for her performance, many felt that she had been snubbed by the Academy and Meryl Streep herself said that she thought Madonna did a "wonderful" job (Madonna beat her for the Golden Globe that year, and she also beat the eventual Oscar winner in that category).