- I am concerned about the size of my AC bill.
- I wonder - if things get very bad, where to go? The Canadian Rockies? Yuck.
- no where, we are doomed
- I know it's long, but I strongly suggest reading the entire article. It really is eye-opening in many ways.
- We're doomed.
- Holmes' Adult Finer profile:
- Sorry, meant to post that in the shooting thread.
- i thought i'd be dead by the time global warming really fucked things up. bummer- looks like i'll have the fun of dealing with it after all.
- We're already dealing with it.
- that's what i meant, r9- we are already dealing with it, and it's going to get much, much, worse.
- WTF is wrong with conservatives?
They REFUSE to accept this. No matter what new information comes out, no matter the overwhelming consensus within the scientific community, they decided a while ago that they would never, ever believe this. It's always "but, Al Gore uses a billion light bulbs!"
They REFUSE to acknowledge that, yes, actually, successful business owners have used publicly funded infrastructure.
They REFUSE to acknowledge that when the Second Amendment was ratified in 1791, the "arms" mentioned were single shot muskets that took at least five seconds for a trained person to reload.
I am talking about actual arguments I have been having with conservatives. They can't say, "well, yes that may be true, but it doesn't matter." They just flat out do not believe any of it.
- R12, this article explained it, as did Al Gore in a quote he used in "An Inconvenient Truth" from Upton Sinclair:
[quote]"It's difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
There is too much money involved. And conservatives are too self-centered and greedy. If they acknowledge the truth, they lose money (or perceive they will, anyway).
- The facts are that there is nothing we can do about it. China's co2 output is now 3 times as the US and Europe's COMBINED. Factor in the cyclical solar flares, and we are fucked.
- R14, did you read the entire article? Just curious.
- It's a very well-written article, that too many people won't read or understand.
- Time Magazine already covered this.
- It's OK. Allah, or Jesus, or Mohammed, or Hubbard will save us and mend the planet, but things gotta get hotter as the fire is being stoked up to burn all the sinners. Overpopulation will be fixed too.
- Im afraid to open my electric bill this month.
- R12 - Most conservatives no longer deny that global warming exists - the evidence is just too conclusive for them to deny - they now deny that human behavior is the cause and instead claim that it's part of the earth's natural warming and cooling cycles. Of course, this is rubbish because the earth has never warmed at the rate it is occurring now, but most people really don't care since there is no material consequences for them as long as they deny the problem: even though you spend more on AC now, you spend less on gas in the winter. If you acknowledge the problem, however, there are serious consequences - having to use public transit instead of your car, living in a smaller house with a smaller lot, consuming less while paying more. I can definitely understand why people prefer to ignore it.
- R20, a lot still deny it.
- It doesn't matter. It's too late to do anything about it. We will just have to ride it out.
- Sunday morning bump
- "WTF is wrong with conservatives?"
Sociopaths, in bed with the oil corps, who think they'll be gone before any real crisis sets in. The fact that their offspring may suffer is unimportant.
- I think that if we all crank up our air conditioners and open the windows maybe the planet will cool down a little, no?
- Or if we put a GIANT ice cube in the ocean!
- Ice cubes are already falling into the ocean, that's part of the problem, R26.
- I'm not talking about polar ice caps, those are far too small, I mean the world's biggest ice cube made in the world's biggest freezer. Then we'll just leave the freezer door open to cool the earth down even more! This is big picture thinking!
- There are just TOO MANY people on the planet.
Mother nature is doing what she does best, restoring the balance.
The planet is an bio system, just like your body. When you get a virus that overwhelms you, your body fights back, well planet earth is fighting back.
- Great article. Well worth reading the whole piece.
The article is depressing and alarming, but it should not be in the least bit surprising or shocking to anyone who has been paying a modicum of attention to this issue over the past twenty or more years.
People are largely apathetic about this because (1) it has not really affected them in any meaningful way; and (2) the fuel industry and its supporters (Republicans) have muddied the debate about the reality of climate change with silly nonsense about Al Gore's weight.
In addition, people have been lulled into a false sense of doing something good for the environment by engaging in modest efforts at recycling -- none of which will have any meaningful effect in light of the massive use of carbon fuels here in the U.S. and in places like China and India.
Even if you dutifully put your cans, plastics, and newspapers out for the recycling truck, you can completely offset any good you are doing by driving around in an SUV or buying cheaply made disposable crap from Walmart and Target. The more junk that we consume only fuels the system for producing more and more goods, using more and more energy to create, ship, and sell them.
But, the devastating effects of global climate change may wake people up from their stupor. Maybe. It is a pity, however, what is going to have to happen before that occurs.
Right now, it feels like we are in the opening sequences of a very horrifying science fiction movie.
- No, R25.
- Buy land in Vermont now, it will be beach front property soon.
- [quote] I mean the world's biggest ice cube made in the world's biggest freezer.
proof of how stupid most people are.
You do realize, dumb-dumb, that the Antarctic ice shelves are FAR bigger than any possible freezer could ever be? you didn't? well, please just go back to your sandbox and play and let the adults continue discussing important things.
- Idiots like R32 don't seem to realize that if/when sea levels rise, all beaches will disappear. The new coastlines will be beachless and disasters. Beaches build up over tens of thousands of years.
- R33 is too retarded to recognize obvious sarcasm.
- Lighten up R34, it was said in sarcastic humor.
- Ugh, relax, R33.
R28 was trying to be funny.
Making light of a horrible situation that most of us are too terrified to actually think about.
Which, of course, is precisely the problem.
- This explains the solution
- Monday morning bump... an article everyone should read (it's not THAT long, stop whining and read it)
- All these hysterical freaks concerned about the great myth of Global Warming.
Remember in the 70s when the world was going to run out of oil? Yeah....
Remember in the 80s, when the ozone holes were going to melt the polar ice caps and create global flooding? Yeah....
Now we have Global Warming. Yawn.
I think that I'm going to drive around aimlessly and spew some more carbon into the atomosphere.
- Except the air is already degraded from when you were a child R40. See all those people with oxygen tanks? That's your future.
- "There is too much money involved. And conservatives are too self-centered and greedy. "
And I bet you have a windmill in your backyard powering your computer. LOL
- "There are just TOO MANY people on the planet."
That's it exactly.
- R42? That's called a distraction. An irrelevency. Missing the point.
- I totally believe in global warming, but it's pretty easy to forget about in San Francisco. Gotta love the irony of a place that conservatives loathe remaining blissfully cool year-round, while the "heartland" scorches.
- ...or the fact that in the city where you feel it the least, you probably have the most believers in the reality of it.
- R40, you're an idiot, a moron, and living proof that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
But cling to your ignorance, little boy. It's apparently all you've got.
- [quote]"There are just TOO MANY people on the planet."
this will unfortunately correct itself.
- Yeah, we're fucked. As the article points out the only way out is if the fossil fuel companies leave the oil in the ground already, and we know they're unlikely to leave that $ on the table.
Also, it's not just conservatives/Republicans. Though Dems acknowledge global warming, they're, as usual, pussies who refuse to do anything about it.
It's interesting that the majority of Americans according to that poll actually do believe and do want the government to do something about it.
- Jesus Saves! Jesus Saves!
- R40...I hate to say anythin but the ocean levels have risen and the polar icecapes are melting and our weather does seem to be much more unpredictable...causing one expensive desaster after another. R40, you aren't very bright, are you?
- I guess I am more concerned about the impending economic collapse of the world. It effects me more directly. The earth will survive while I am still alive, but I really worry about not having money.
- The US is the only total denier of this all, the only one.
- If you never actually read the full article linked in the OP... you really, really should.
- Actually, we are doomed. You see we've lived in a period of extremely low volcanic activity that won't continue. Once that kicks in, it's all over. We won't need to worry about climate though, the fact is we won't be able to BREATHE. Already oxygen in the atmosphere has fallen as much as 15% in some places. In the future we will have to make do with about 40% of the breathable air we have now. Most people will die once they reach 60.
- Not so R54. China also. But the solution is easy and obvious. Nationalize the oil and natural gas companies. Their profits would be enough to pay off the national debt and consumption and production could be easily controlled and eliminated.
- bump for a must-read article
- Everone should read this.
- George Carlin on global warming.
- We'd better hurry up and live like we're dying!!!
- More people should read this
- 2012, the new hottest year on record.
- We had a drought here in Kansas. Another few summers like the last one, and I guess it's going to be the Dust Bowl again. I do remember in the early 90s there was a drought in the state, and I saw a large dust cloud off in the distance a few times.
- Maybe all those damn Asian countries should stop polluting the air so damn much, which is helping ruin the atmosphere.
- Well, it's not as if the planet has experienced heating and cooling cycles in its past or anything.
It's incredibly arrogant to think that humans are immune to extinction. The planet itself will just go on spinning until the sun explodes and collapses. We won't be missed.
- R67, was there a point to that?
Because you sound like a real idiot if you think any of that needed to be said. It's like you're responding to an argument nobody is making.
- Read it and weep.
- Oh please, R66. Could you be any more stereotypically American? Guess who is responsible for the majority of the CO2 in the atmosphere?
- indeed, but China recently pulled ahead as far as CO2 emissions
- And most people in the U.S. won't believe it until those who live on a hill wake up one morning discover they now live on waterfront property.
- Anyone remember an episode of Oprah where she had on some scientist who had come up with a solution to repair the Ozone layer? It had something to do with using a regular Garden hose and using it to send up... some sort of gas. All I remember was that the logic behind it was that whenever a volcano erupts, it emits this gas and it has positive effects on the Ozone and this process could easily be replicated?
Whatever happened to that?
- They're running the documentary "Chasing Ice" on National Geographic HD channel... it's amazing. Read this, then watch that. Then get everyone you know to read this, and watch that.
- Between global warming and The Big One on the San Andreas fault, I can't wait until Victorville has ocean front property.
- I wonder if there is anyone alive who can see this entire issue clearly and will write about it for the history.
Not me. I can't write. But you start with Rachel and the young people who read her and the ones who read Ayn, J.D. or Jack and show how they got into the schools, destroyed the minds of three generations of children, forming the four pillars of our current nutcase civilization.
Ironically, the pillar of Envirofundies have some truth behind their case. Humanity IS at last a big enough shitload to start having a permanent effect on the climate. Thankfully, a supervolcano will render the entire issue moot. In the meantime, let them be.
- What the fuck are you talking about R78?
- This is a must-read
- The planet earth will survive just fine.
The human race is only a microscopic part of earth species history. There will be another intelligent species. This has all happened before.
Go back 65 million years for total species collapse (the planet is 4.5 Billion years old already) The human race has only been here for 50 thousand years. The dinosaurs lasted 180 Million years. We are just a flash in the pan.
- Bumping a little reality for the deniers...
- As the heat-wave rages across the south west (108 in Austin yesterday, 120 in Arizona), it seems timely to bump this for anyone who hasn't read it yet.
It's worth the read.
- r40, the correct term is Climate Change.
I live in New Mexico and we're in the midst of a massive drought. Over 90% of the state is in extreme drought conditions which the worst level of drought.
We have had water restrictions for a number of years. I've given up on my garden since I can't throw enough water on it to keep it from frying.
I was out on the road and went through a town a few weeks ago that has completely run out of water. Had stopped to get gas and use the restroom and their restroom was closed due to the situation. The mayor of another town just announced that his town was on the verge of running out of water.
A few more years of drought like this and we'll see these towns abandoned
This month has felt more like August than June. Too hot to do anything.
Meanwhile, everything north of us is on fire.
The hottest and driest parts of the country are going to be the first to go.
- If the scorching temps in Death Valley are tying the record set in 1913, what accounted for such dreadful heat in 1913? It couldn't have been Climate Change or Global Warming a hundred years ago, so why do we have to believe that man-made carbon emissions are the cause of similar conditions today?
- R85, your ignorance doesn't change the facts. That you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't real. Get that through your fucking head.
- R86, asking questions is part of scientific method.
- As floods decimate Colorado and New Mexico, and new record highs are set, and weird weather patterns become the norm, and huge fractions of states burn... the article in the OP is worth reading and re-reading, and spreading around again.
- I love this stuff.
- plus, fukushima
- It's actually been a very cool summer on record. The lack of hurricanes is further proof that global warming is a hoax
- The lack of hurricanes is further proof that global warming is a hoax.
Alternating floods and wildfires suggest otherwise, denialist dipshit.
- [bold]CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING[/bold]
On Tuesday, a group of 50 international scientists released a comprehensive new report on the science of climate change that concluded that evidence now leans against global warming resulting from human-related greenhouse gas emissions.
- Not a hoax. It's all over for humanity, and most of you are just too dumb to realize it.
- The Institute for Public Affairs is a "free market" think tank in Melbourne, Australia funded by .... ExxonMobil among others.
- Fukushima will end us soon enough
- someone will invent satellites with filters to grab all the carbon then crush it into diamonds.
- [bold]Number of climate change sceptics soars as support for alternative energy wanes[bold]
The proportion of people who do not believe in climate change has more than quadrupled since 2005, according to a government-funded survey.
Public support for wind and solar power as an alternative to fossil fuels has fallen sharply over the same period, with gas the only form of electricity production now perceived more favourably.
- Claim: Global warming causing Antarctic ice to hit record level![/bold]
- Turning[/bold] off[/bold] the[/bold] bold[/bold] tag[/bold].
- Scientists working on the most authoritative study on climate change were urged to cover up the fact that the world’s temperature hasn’t risen for the last 15 years, it is claimed.
A leaked copy of a United Nations report, compiled by hundreds of scientists, shows politicians in Belgium, Germany, Hungary and the United States raised concerns about the final draft.
Published next week, it is expected to address the fact that 1998 was the hottest year on record and world temperatures have not yet exceeded it, which scientists have so far struggled to explain.
The report is the result of six years’ work by UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is seen as the world authority on the extent of climate change and what is causing it – on which governments including Britain’s base their green policies…
Germany called for the references to the slowdown in warming to be deleted, saying looking at a time span of just 10 or 15 years was ‘misleading’ and they should focus on decades or centuries.
Hungary worried the report would provide ammunition for deniers of man-made climate change.
Belgium objected to using 1998 as a starting year for statistics, as it was exceptionally warm and makes the graph look flat – and suggested using 1999 or 2000 instead to give a more upward-pointing curve.
The United States delegation even weighed in, urging the authors of the report to explain away the lack of warming using the ‘leading hypothesis’ among scientists that the lower warming is down to more heat being absorbed by the ocean – which has got hotter.
- My do Global Warming deniers continue to post already debunked bullshit, over and over, as if it hasn't already been explained and thoroughly debunked?
- No matter what the topic is, R102, no one takes seriously anyone who uses the word "debunked."
I just "debunked" you. See how convincing that is?
- R103, posting more lies, based on zero logic or reason, and probably not even understanding the word 'debunked' or what it means.
- I live in Colorado, and I am seriously scared after all of this flooding. I have never seen anything like it in my life. We just had the largest fire in the history of the state in June, and now we have a 1000 year flood not even three months later. No fucking explanation for this but climate change.
- No amount of "science" will interfere with a warmist's faith.
The deeply religious are like that.
- I think you mean 'denialists' faith.
They're the ones making shit up, rather than relying on observation and scientific facts.
- Calm Down r105.
In the climate record (newspapers) we've had a year with no rain (as in zero inches). We've also had an "ARkstorm" where it rained for more than 40 days straight and turned the central valley and Orange county into inland seas.
Happened in the mid-1800s before the "official" climate record began.
It WILL happen again, and it will be blamed on climate change.
- Warmists believe in the prophesies (computer models) which are ALWAYS right, even though they never have been.
- How so?
- R109, like all denialists, continues to assert things without basis in reality, in order to cling to their bizarre belief that they somehow know more than 98% of all scientists on the planet who actually study this stuff for a living.
- (the other 2% of scientists being on the pay-roll of the coal or oil industries)
- [bold]Global warming 'hiatus' puts climate change scientists on the spot[/bold]
Theories as to why Earth's average surface temperature hasn't risen in recent years include an idea that the Pacific Ocean goes through decades-long cycles of absorbing heat.
"Now the IPCC finds itself in a position that a science group never wants to be in. It's in spin management mode."
- What a load of bullshit, R113.
You guys will grasp at ANY straw to try and deny the obvious.
There has been no pause. Arctic sea ice is NOT bouncing back. Global warming IS real.
Get over your ignorant selves. You do NOT know more than 99% of all global climate scientists (and that other 1%? On the payroll of fossil fuel corporations).
Seriously, I don't think you read the article in the OP. If you did, you'd be embarrassed to post your denial crap here.
- [quote]Arctic sea ice is NOT bouncing back.
2013 had a 66% increase in sea ice over 2012 at the summer minimum.
Perhaps you'd like to argue with the National Snow and Ice Data Center?
- R115, you do realize that being ever so slightly more than the RECORD LOW is not any sign that Global Warming is a hoax, right?
What is with you fucking morons anyway? You take a statistic you don't understand, completely out of context, and then insist it proves that reality isn't happening.
Fuck you, idiot.
- R115, a sucker for spin and propaganda.
[bold]Sorry, Arctic sea ice isn’t really ‘recovering’[/bold]
Over the past few decades, the sharp decline of summer sea ice in the Arctic has been one of the clearest signs that the Earth's climate is changing rapidly.
So it's time to check in with the sea ice again now that we've reached the end of the 2013 summer melt season. Here's a chart from the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) showing the extent of sea ice in the Arctic this year (red line) — that is, the area of ocean with at least 15 percent ice:
(see link for graph)
A few things jump out. The ice extent for 2013 hit a low of 5.099 million square kilometers on Sept. 13. That was the sixth-lowest minimum on record and about 23 percent below the long-term average, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center.
But there was still a lot more Arctic ice this year than there was in 2012, when the sea ice extent shrunk to just 3.413 million square kilometers, the lowest minimum by far since satellite measurements began. So what happened? Has the Arctic started to recover, as the Daily Mail recently suggested? Not exactly. Here's why.
[bold]Short term variation vs. long-term trends[/bold]
The Met Office in Britain recently pointed out that there are all sorts of reasons why sea ice extent can bounce around from year to year:
-- temperatures naturally vary from one year to the next;
-- the amount of cloud can affect the amount of surface melting;
-- summer storms can also break up ice, which can accelerate the melting process;
-- settled conditions can be more conducive to ice forming;
-- winds may act to spread out the ice or push it together.
Those variables can help explain why sea ice didn't decline in 2013 as much as it did last year: “In 2012 we saw a record low which was likely to have been influenced by a storm which swept through the region in summer, but this year’s weather conditions appear to have been less conducive to ice loss," noted Ann Keen, a sea ice scientist at the Met Office.
Since things can vary a fair bit year to year, the Met Office advises looking at longer-term trends. And those are easy to see. There was less Arctic ice, on average, in the 2000s than there was in the 1990s. And there was less ice, on average, in the 1990s than there was in the 1980s.
Clearly the ice is disappearing. Since 1979, Arctic sea-ice extent has been shrinking by about 4 percent per decade, with summer lows getting about 11 percent smaller each decade. And the volume of Arctic sea ice — which is trickier to measure — also keeps tumbling downward:
(see graph at link)
Looked at this way, 2013 doesn't really look like a recovery.
- R16 didn't even read the LA Times article (that liberal rag!) because it would challenge his warmist religion.
- 118 didn't read the article in the OP, *OR* the article linked in R117.
And your idiotic "follow the money" thing is hilarious, because if you actually DID follow the money, it'd lead you to notice that *all* of the denialism is heavily funded by the Koch brothers and other fossil fuel corporations.
- Keep arguing about global warming while Fukushima pollutes the whole planet with radiation
- There is no hiatus in global warming. It is accelerating. Of course there will be localized cooling.
- The motivations of Global Warming/Climate-Change denialists puzzle me.
Basically, they're just regurgitating Koch Brothers/Big Oil talking points verbatim. They have no real arguments.
And seriously, what is their goal?
Why are they against more efficient energy use, cleaner air and water, more domestic jobs, less dependence on foreign nations, less war over energy resources, etc.?
Are they really so concerned that hugely profitable fossil fuel industries continue to be able to rip off customers, pollute our land, air, and water at tax-payer expense, and maintain an unsustainable status-quo?
Seriously, what is their motivation? What do they GET out of denying the obvious?
There isn't a farmer alive that isn't aware of climate change. They see it in the world around them. Yet these morons continue to deny the consistent evidence gathered from ALL branches of science, and somehow think it's a giant conspiracy by these same scientists across all the world's nations to extort more grant money? Huh??
What the fuck is their problem??
- [quote]What the fuck is their problem??
Like the violently projecting idiot said, "follow the money".
- But if you follow the money, you find it's the global warming denialists that are bought and paid for, lying their asses off to preserve the corporate profits of the fossil fuel industry.
There is no "money" to follow to support manufacturing a non-existent global warming hoax.
- "Global Warming" is just an excuse for the government (i.e. the 1% - BOTH PARTIES YOU DUMB FUCKS) to implement cap & trade and tax the middle and poor classes into fucking oblivion. 1 or 2 degrees over a hundred years, and not even reliably proven - fuck you. Maybe this will help you followers.
- In the southeast...record cool. Arctic ice increases. Global warming is a bunch of left wing horse shit. OP, you ride the bus or walk and the the rest of us the fuck alone. Man cannot control weather. Go bitch at India, China and North Korea. They won't sign an environment treaty and they are the wolds biggest polluters.
- R125, you're fucking dreaming.
It's the 1% that is FIGHTING global warming, because their current scenario is too profitable.
What is with morons who apply exactly the OPPOSITE motivations to groups that they so obviously have?
And the notion that both parties represent the 1% is even more obviously and laughably false.
Seriously, how warped is your perception that you believe the bullshit that idiots like R125 peddle?
Your post, R125, only exposes your utter ignorance (you don't understand the significance of two degrees (Celsius, not Fahrenheit) GLOBAL AVERAGE means for starters, and you think "it's not reliably proven" when it actually is).
The only "hoax" that exists is the denialism being pushed on you by the Koch brothers (i.e. the REAL 1%).
Scientists are not trying to scam you.
- [quote]In the southeast...record cool.
You fail to grasp the difference between weather and climate, or local temperatures vs. global averages. In reality, global averages are increasing every year.
[quote]Arctic ice increases.
This talking point is debunked above in the link you obviously didn't read (I refer you to R117).
[quote]Global warming is a bunch of left wing horse shit.
No, it's scientific fact. But right-wing nut-jobs often dismiss actual facts as "liberal/left-wing crap". I'm sorry your ideology is so divorced from reality, but just because you refuse to believe it, that doesn't make reality any less factual.
[quote]Man cannot control weather.
Nobody is saying anything about control, moron. But if you think dumping trillions of tons of green-house gasses into the atmosphere over a phenomenally short time has zero impact on the earth, then you're just an obliviously ignorant idiot. And weirdly arrogant.
[quote]Go bitch at India, China and North Korea. They won't sign an environment treaty and they are the wolds biggest polluters.
And then you say shit like this which tacitly admits that you're wrong and humans can and do affect climate with their pollution... and expose yourself as just being a selfish dick, insisting others go first before you even think of changing anything.
Which is what it comes down to: Denialists like yourself are hypocritical ignorant morons who are simultaneously selfish, dickish assholes, who mostly just fear change. Pathetic cowards, the lot of you.
- DEBUNKED! Hypothetical nonsense. Algore's (1% BTW) hockey stick graph was bullshit. Still is. Just environmental extremist whackos manipulating data for their own purposes. People are waking up to this hoax, finally.
- No, R129, sorry.
Most of those supposed "debunkings" have been endlessly debunked by actual scientists and actual data.
You can nitpick this or that, but it doesn't change the over-arching facts. And just because some bought-and-paid-for think-tank says something is wrong, doesn't mean it's wrong.
WHY is it so important to you that this stuff be wrong? Seriously, ask yourself what it is you're really fighting for, and fighting against? Why are you so dead-set on ignoring reality and burying your head in the sand, and how have you managed to convince yourself that every scientist that isn't paid by Big Oil is wrong, and only those tiny fractions of scientists funded by Big Oil are right?
- R28. YES we can control pollution, NOT GLOBAL WARMING! I did read R117 you douche.
- R131, with your every post you just confirm how much of a raging idiot you are. You should probably stop while you're behind.
- I'm fascinated that people think the L.A. Times is filled with right-wing talking points.
- On Tuesday, a group of 50 international scientists released a comprehensive new report on the science of climate change that concluded that evidence now leans against global warming resulting from human-related greenhouse gas emissions.
The report, which cites thousands of peer-reviewed articles the United Nations-sponsored panel on climate change ignored, also found that "no empirical evidence exists to substantiate the claim that 2°C of warming presents a threat to planetary ecologies or environments" and no convincing case can be made that "a warming will be more economically costly than an equivalent cooling." The U.N.'s panel is scheduled to release its next report next month.
The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change, or NIPCC, which produced the report, is described as "an international panel of scientists and scholars who came together to understand the causes and consequences of climate change." Unlike the "United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is government-sponsored, politically motivated, and predisposed to believing that climate change is a problem in need of a U.N. solution," NIPCC "has no formal attachment to or sponsorship from any government or governmental agency" and is "wholly independent of political pressures and influences and therefore is not predisposed to produce politically motivated conclusions or policy recommendations."
According to the study's authors, "the hypothesis of human-caused global warming comes up short not merely of 'full scientific certainty' but of reasonable certainty or even plausibility. The weight of evidence now leans heavily against the theory."
- [quote]On Tuesday, a group of 50 international scientists released a comprehensive new report on the science of climate change that concluded that evidence now leans against global warming resulting from human-related greenhouse gas emissions.
And the other 10,000 international scientists looked at them and their industry ties, and just shook their heads.
- [bold]Antarctic sea ice hit 35-year record high Saturday[/bold]
Antarctic sea ice has grown to a record large extent for a second straight year, baffling scientists seeking to understand why this ice is expanding rather than shrinking in a warming world.
- R136, I again refer you back to R117... it sucks that that ridiculously ignorant talking point has so much traction with those who (inexplicably) have such a vested interest in denying the reality of climate change.
- r137, The article is on the ANTarctic. (or south pole for idiots like yourself)
Please try to keep up.
- Simple answer R130 - Cap and Trade. I don't like attempted hoaxes designed to raise taxes and the cost of goods for NO OTHER REASON than to enrich the top tier of investors in the scam, to the severe detriment of the middle class and poor. Give away BILLIONS of tax dollars to FAILED companies like Solyndra and Amonix so their execs can buy yachts and ski chalets? It is a money scam. THAT is my answer to your question.
You're clearly "all in" on this (blinders). Read the contra-evidence sometime. Watch a documentary other than Algore's sometime.
For instance, did you know that most of the climate stations in the US are located within the heat envelopes of major cities? Of course those areas are getting hotter - they have things call engines which produce localized heat... As the cities grow, so would number of engines, ergo - more heat. On and on.
The books are cooked on this scam.
- Global Warming/Climate-Change denialists are the perfect example of "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
They have no grasp of the bigger picture, they fixate on a tiny data-point, cherry-picked to support whatever axe they want to grind, completely oblivious to the forest for their obsession with their one tiny tree.
Scientific illiteracy is a huge problem in this country, and it's always those who are MOST scientifically illiterate that seem to be the harshest critics of scientific findings. Because they just don't "get it".
- R138, why do you think that changes anything?
Do you think GLOBAL AVERAGES only take into account one pole or the other? Really?
- r140 has drank the Kool Aid.
No data or observed reality will sway him from his warmist religion.
It's all faith for him and "Death to the heretics!" (and don't think they wouldn't try)
- Antarctic Ice has been growing for years now.
Last year? RECORD ICE!
This year? ANOTHER RECORD!
All you will ever hear from the warmist crowd is how antarctica is melting and coastal cities will be flooding any day now.
- [quote]Simple answer [R130] - Cap and Trade.
Cap and Trade is the right-wing, conservative, "free market" solution, originally proposed by Republicans and free-market types before they realized there was more money (in the short term anyway) in denying what they used to accept as reality.
[quote] I don't like attempted hoaxes designed to raise taxes and the cost of goods for NO OTHER REASON than to enrich the top tier of investors in the scam, to the severe detriment of the middle class and poor.
Well... global warming/climate-change isn't a hoax (attempted or otherwise). And the rise in taxes would be used to subsidize renewable energy in order to boot-strap it up to competitiveness with established fossil fuel industries. It's a short-term cost that will literally avoid far larger long-term costs. It's short sighted to save a penny now if saving that penny will cost you two dollars down the road, right? And three, there is no scam, and peak-oil and fossil fuel pollutants negatively affect the middle-class and poor far more than the wealthy already.
[quote]Give away BILLIONS of tax dollars to FAILED companies like Solyndra and Amonix so their execs can buy yachts and ski chalets?
This is just ignorant parroting of propaganda. Yes, there were some failures in the investments, but they were a tiny minority. There will always be failures when investing in new technologies. Seriously, this is just a STUPID and IGNORANT objection. This is fueled by spin and propaganda, not reality or factual analysis.
[quote]THAT is my answer to your question.
And I've pointed out it's not an answer. It just tells me you've been brainwashed by right-wing propaganda, and are either gullible or ignorant. It's a weird fetish to deny the reality of climate change because you don't like one or two proposed solutions to it.
It's also annoying and obnoxious that you think that actually factoring in the REAL COSTS of fossil fuels (i.e. all the health problems, pollution, environmental degredation, etc) into the form of taxes rather than just having taxpayer funded cleanup and other "bailouts" is a BAD thing. There are long term costs that aren't being borne by the industry itself or by the actual users of the dirty energy. You blithely ignore that.
Never mind the costs of rising seas... we need to fund planning NOW to mitigate disasters LATER.
[quote]You're clearly "all in" on this (blinders).
No, you've got it backwards. You're clearly "all in" on the denialism, with your blinders firmly in place, and being reinforced by right-wing talking points and dirty-fuel corporate brainwashing.
I'm all in with SCIENCE, this is true. Science is verified. Fact checked. Constantly questioned and tested. And it's consistent across ALL DISCIPLINES of Science, and all measures, and survives all tests... and even the most wild predictions of the consequences have so far proven if anything to be too conservative. Yet your head is still in the sand about it. YOU have the blinders, dude, not me.
[quote]For instance, did you know that most of the climate stations in the US are located within the heat envelopes of major cities?
Did you know this talking point was debunked YEARS ago?
[quote]The books are cooked on this scam.
The only cooked books are the propaganda, spin, and outright lies you're gullibly buying into, all funded by the fossil fuel industry. Seriously, follow the money... your side LOVES to say that, but never actually seems to DO it. Global warming denialism is nearly all funded by the Koch Brothers (same guys who fund the Tea Party).
It's a scam all right... a corporate scam to convince gullible rubes like you by spinning half-truths and lies into a story that helps them continue to enrich themselves at YOUR expense. And you're helping them.
- R142, you're projecting. In fact, your own quote applies to YOU not me:
[quote]No data or observed reality will sway him from his warmist religion.
Just change 'warmist' to 'denialist'.
Because I'm not the one believing in religion. I'm believing in fact, in science, in hard data, gathered independently from tens of thousands of scientist in dozens of professional fields across hundreds of countries. Your belief is that these people are all in a cabal, a giant conspiracy, that are somehow out to get YOU and YOUR MONEY. Which is of course just ridiculous.
If facts come to light that refute global warming, then I will refute it. But the reality is that nearly all the data confirms it.
YOU are the one taking everything on faith, and gullibly buying into the lies being spun by the fossil-fuel industry and special interests.
- I guess this is the part that annoys me the most:
"A politically motivated, decades-long war on expertise has eroded the popular consensus on a wide variety of scientifically validated topics. Everything, from evolution to the origins of climate change, is mistakenly up for grabs again. Scientific certainty is just another thing for two people to "debate" on television."
And more insight can be found at the link, where the Popular Science website talks about why it turned off comments on its articles:
- I prefer to refer to climate change deniers as "flat-earthers". Nuclear-powered, absolutely impermeable ignorance.
- [bold]Global warming believers are feeling the heat[/bold]
"At the heart of the problem lie the computer models which, for 25 years, have formed the basis for the IPCC’s scaremongering: they predicted runaway global warming, when the real rise in temperatures has been much more modest. So modest, indeed, that it has fallen outside the lowest parameters of the IPCC’s prediction range. The computer models, in short, are bunk."
oil industry shill
- The solution is to not buy anything made in China, since they are the global warmers. Who is with me? I try to buy USA only all the time, even if it's more expensive.
- Global Average Surface Air Temperature By Decade:
- Change in heat content in upper 2000 meters (6500 feet) of world’s oceans:
- [bold]Ocean Warming, Sea Level Rise And Polar Ice Melt Speed Up, Surface Warming To Follow[/bold]
“Global Warming Has Accelerated In Past 15 Years, New Study Of Oceans Confirms,” as we reported back in March. And “Greenland Ice Melt Up Nearly Five-Fold Since Mid-1990s, Antarctica’s Ice Loss Up 50% In Past Decade,” as we reported last November. Another study that month found “sea level rising 60% faster than projected.”
And yet much of the media believes climate change isn’t what gets measured and reported by scientists, but is somehow a dialectic or a debate between scientists and deniers. So while 2010 was the hottest year on record and the 2000s the hottest decade on record, we are subject to nonsensically framed stories like this one from CBS, headlined “Controversy over U.N. report on climate change as warming appears to slow.”
The drama-driven junkies of the MSM apparently think that the most newsworthy thing in the once-every-several-years literature review by hundreds of the world’s leading scientists is that people who make a living denying climate science … wait for it … deny climate science. That CBS story actually begins, “Climatologists and climate-change deniers agree on at least one thing this week: everyone is awaiting the landmark U.N. report on climate change that will be presented at next week’s meeting of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).” Stop the presses! No, please, stop the damn presses already if you are an editor or reporter who thinks deniers deserve equal billing with scientists.
Because the media keeps making the same faux pas about the faux pause, scientists and science writers have had to debunk it repeatedly. Anyone in the media who insists on buying into the false dialectic MUST read the new piece at Real Climate by climatologist Stefan Rahmstorf, the Mother Jones piece by Chris Mooney, this piece by Tamino, and almost anything at Skeptical Science (such as this or this). Also, Peter Sinclair has a great video on this.
(more at the link)
- From the link in 152:
Let me extract the key points and figures. Back in July, scientist Dana Nuccitelli summarized a new study, “Distinctive climate signals in reanalysis of global ocean heat content“:
•Completely contrary to the popular contrarian myth, global warming has accelerated, with more overall global warming in the past 15 years than the prior 15 years. This is because about 90% of overall global warming goes into heating the oceans, and the oceans have been warming dramatically.
•As suspected, much of the ‘missing heat’ Kevin Trenberth previously talked about has been found in the deep oceans. Consistent with the results of Nuccitelli et al. (2012), this study finds that 30% of the ocean warming over the past decade has occurred in the deeper oceans below 700 meters, which they note is unprecedented over at least the past half century.
•Some recent studies have concluded based on the slowed global surface warming over the past decade that the sensitivity of the climate to the increased greenhouse effect is somewhat lower than the IPCC best estimate. Those studies are fundamentally flawed because they do not account for the warming of the deep oceans.
•The slowed surface air warming over the past decade has lulled many people into a false and unwarranted sense of security.
For more on the myth of a low climate sensitivity (or the myth that climate sensitivity is the same as projected future warming), see this post. In reality, the best science says that the Earth’s actual sensitivity to carbon pollution is probably on the high side.
The bottom line is provided by Rahmstorf at RealClimate:
[bold]The heat content of the oceans is growing and growing. That means that the greenhouse effect has not taken a pause and the cold sun is not noticeably slowing global warming….
The increase in the amount of heat in the oceans amounts to 17 x 1022 Joules over the last 30 years. That is so much energy it is equivalent to exploding a Hiroshima bomb every second in the ocean for thirty years.[/bold]
Warming of the whole globe (as opposed to the thin surface layer) has sped up. When the rate of surface warming returns to the trendline, I wonder if the media will report that global warming has accelerated.
- The Oceans ate my Global Warming!
- [quote]The Oceans ate my Global Warming!
Wow. Such brilliant wit, flying in the face of peer-reviewed scientific reality. Now shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.
- Leftists NEED man-made global warming to be true.
It's their last hope for global control
- Here is a very small sampling of what current and former UN scientists have to say about the UN’s climate claims and its scientific methods.
Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.
“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” – Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.
“Temperature measurements show that the [climate model-predicted mid-troposphere] hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them!”- UN IPCC Scientist Dr. Steven M. Japar, a PhD atmospheric chemist who was part of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Second (1995) and Third (2001) Assessment Reports, and has authored 83 peer-reviewed publications and in the areas of climate change, atmospheric chemistry, air pollutions and vehicle emissions.
UN IPCC Scientist Kenneth P. Green Declares ‘A Death Spiral for Climate Alarmism’ – September 30, 2009 – ‘We can expect climate crisis industry to grow increasingly shrill, and increasingly hostile toward anyone who questions their authority’ - Dr. Kenneth Green was a Working Group 1 expert reviewer for the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2001
‘The whole climate change issue is about to fall apart — Heads will roll!’ -South African UN Scientist Dr. Will Alexander, April 12, 2009 – Professor Alexander, is Emeritus of the Department of Civil and Biosystems Engineering at the University of Pretoria in South Africa, and a former member of the United Nations Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters.
“I was at the table with three Europeans, and we were having lunch. And they were talking about their role as lead authors. And they were talking about how they were trying to make the report so dramatic that the United States would just have to sign that Kyoto Protocol,” Christy told CNN on May 2, 2007. – Alabama State Climatologist Dr. John Christy of the University of Alabama in Huntsville, served as a UN IPCC lead author in 2001 for the 3rd assessment report and detailed how he personally witnessed UN scientists attempting to distort the science for political purposes.
“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” – Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.
“The quantity of CO2 we produce is insignificant in terms of the natural circulation between air, water and soil… I am doing a detailed assessment of the UN IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science.” – South African Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer Dr. Philip Lloyd, a UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author who has authored over 150 refereed publications.
“The claims of the IPCC are dangerous unscientific nonsense” – declared IPCC reviewer and climate researcher Dr Vincent Gray, of New Zealand in 2007. Gray was an expert reviewer on every single draft of the IPCC reports going back to 1990, author of more than 100 scientific publications.
- R157 & R158 are really suffering from delusion, and tin-hat conspiracy theorism.
- Sad, really. Clearly hasn't the mental capacity to do anything but cut and paste ExxonMobil propaganda.
- The persistent ignoring of scientists' findings is typical of the short sightedness of so many people. The world will not end due to global warming, but a viable way of life for our race may. We have to think a few generations into the future.
from an article at link
How fast this will come about, we do not know. All we can say is that it will take no longer than 2,000 years. Thus the 2.3 metres per degree of warming are not for this century. They need to be considered as our sea level commitment – the sea level rise that cannot be avoided after we have elevated global temperatures to a certain level.
Ben Strauss of Climate Central has considered the different possible future pathways that society might take and computed which US cities are at risk in the long-term. He poses the question as to what year, if we continue with greenhouse emissions at current rates, we will have caused an inevitable sea level rise that puts certain cities at risk.
According to his analysis, within the next few years Miami in Florida will be committed to eventually lie below sea level, while our future actions can still decide on whether we want to one day give up cities such as Virginia Beach, Sacramento, Boston, Jacksonville or New York City.
This is a decision society has to take for future generations. We will need to adapt to climate change in any case, but some things we will not be able to adapt to. Society needs to decide whether we want to give up, for example, the Tower of London, or to put the breaks on climate change so that we don’t have to.
- Global Warming is DEAD!
Damn those thermometers and pesky satellites!
Turns out rising CO2 doesn't affect the climate much at all. Oops!
Pay not attention to those old computer models!
The new crisis will be.... Ocean acidification!
Which we will continue to blame on man-made CO2
- R158 (and multiple other posts) = fucking sockpuppet/troll.
Get a real job, you cunt!
- [bold]The Climate Change Denial Machine Is Going Up to 11[/bold]
As I predicted, with the advent of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report due tomorrow, the noise machine is out in full force.
Still, when I saw that James Delingpole had written yet another climate change denial piece for The Telegraph, I dithered. After all, in my opinion Delingpole is one of the noisiest of the deniers, saying whatever he can no matter how provocative, presumably to get a rise out of his readers. You can read all about his shenanigans at DeSmogBlog.
But The Telegraph is widely read, and Delingpole’s wrongness is the usual kind of stuff that will make the rounds of the deny-o-sphere, so I’ll stick my head in to the maelstrom momentarily.
The real meat of his column starts with this:
[quote]At the heart of the problem lie the computer models which, for 25 years, have formed the basis for the IPCC’s scaremongering: they predicted runaway global warming, when the real rise in temperatures has been much more modest. So modest, indeed, that it has fallen outside the lowest parameters of the IPCC’s prediction range. The computer models, in short, are bunk.
Actually, no. They didn’t predict “runaway” warming, they use models of the atmosphere checked against real measurements to make predictions of future temperatures. The warming predicted was steady and unsettling, but hardly “runaway”. Delingpole’s use of the term is a strawman.
(lots more debunking at the link)
- Go play in a hurricane, R162.
- [bold]On the US storm front, it's been quiet, too quiet: Hurricanes, tornadoes missing in action[/bold]
Hurricane and tornado activity in 2013 has been flirting with record low levels, while heat waves are fewer and milder than last year.
- In other news, scientists have found no conclusive proof that smoking causes cancer.
- It was slightly cooler this summer where I live. The A/C was ran less this year than the previous years that I can remember.
- That's it! I'm moving to Yonkers.
- So many claims of faith. So little proof. Global Warming has been sounding like religion for a while now. Even before we had proof the numbers have been cooked. Remember that scandal?
- You have AC?
The Darfour Orphans
- There was no scandal R170. It is a figment of your imagination.
- "Global warming" has been known for quite some now as "Climate change."
Unusually cold weather - climate change.
Unusually hot weather - climate change.
Too much rain - climate change.
Too little rain - climate change.
Nothing happening - climate change.
Glad to see the end of this scam and more people waking up to it. So many taxpayers' dollars over so many years have been wasted on this giant con enriching the 1 per cent.
Spend the money fighting poverty and providing free health care. That's what I'd like to see.
- Thank you R162. Nailed it.
- R166 just linked to Fox News as some sort of proof? Seriously?
- R173, Climate Change isn't a scam, you idiot.
Funny how all the deniers are completely ignoring how their propaganda and half-truths and spin and lies are utterly debunked in article after article posted here and elsewhere...
Perhaps people should go back and read the article linked in R164 again (or for the first time since I think many of you didn't bother).
- Why is the hard left so invested in Global Warming?
- I have ZERO faith in anything the U.N. does. If you do - then you're a stooge of the highest order. A perfect mark. For me to have any confidence whatsoever that the climate scientists aren't in the pockets of the politicians, and trumping up their charts, graphs, and statistics (ala, the totally debunked hockey stick graph), there would need to be a NON-Governmental, OBJECTIVE, "double-blind study" type of group guiding the discussion. Based on all the controversy and backpedaling today, no way I'm going to become an anthropogenic theory cultist. It's just too expensive to sign off on without real proof.
- Why I don't believe in "man-made" Global Warming
Glacier Bay and all those evil SUVs from the 1800's that caused all that melting.
- No, R179, you don't believe in human-caused global warming because you're an uneducated idiot who makes bold claims out of ignorance and based on a failure to even comprehend the topic you're pontificating on.
- [bold]IPCC Report: Humans are the ‘dominant cause’ of global warming[/bold]
Our climate is changing, no doubt about it. The festering controversy we're in has been about whether humans have anything to do with it. A comprehensive report by a UN-sponsored climate panel may now finally put the issue to rest — and we're most certainly to blame.
- What percentage of CO2 is "caused" by man?
A: 3% (allegedly)
What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?
What percentage of the atmosphere is H2O?
How many "Global Warming" computer models take atmospheric water into consideration for their calculations (water vapor, clouds trapping heat, clouds reflecting sunlight, etc)?
A: 0 (it's too complicated)
- R185 - Don't get me started on solar activity and the fact that a warming climate based on such CAUSES more CO2 to be released into the atmosphere (trees, the soil). Ergo, the correlation does exist, but the interpretation is exactly BACKWARDS...
- R186 is completely moronic.
It's not backwards. It's a reinforcing spiral.
Man dumps megatons of CO2 into the atmosphere (along with methane and other greenhouse gasses), which causes the Earth to warm... which causes more evaporation (more H2O) as well as more methane (melting permafrost) which causes MORE warming...
And yes, R185, they do factor in cloud albedo (more moisture = more clouds, which helps counter-act warming to a degree), but it's being outpaced by loss of sea ice (more water absorbs more heat instead of reflecting it away as ice does).
What is it with you retards who cherry pick one or two data points, then take them COMPLETELY out of context, and think that somehow PROVES that you are right, and tens of thousands of professional scientists with a lot more knowledge and IQ points than you are all somehow wrong?
- R186 also believes that Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons were shipped to Syria. A truly simple soul.
- And then there's that pesky sunspot correlation that keeps showing up.
No sunspots = Little Ice Age.
Massive sunspots = Global Warming.
and as the sunspots have vanished again, Global Warming is stopping.
- Why can't they just build a giant air conditioning unit on the moon and point it at the earth to keep it cool?
- [quote]but it's being outpaced by loss of sea ice (more water absorbs more heat instead of reflecting it away as ice does).
Except we have 60% more sea ice this year. That's a LOT more reflective cooling.
- Oh, the old methane chestnut. It is to jest.
- 1) CO2 is increasing. Everyone agrees with this. Easy to measure.
2) CO2 increase is caused by man.
Warmist: YES! CO2 causes the greenhouse effect and is warming the planet. It's all capitalism and the U.S. fault and we're all going to die!
Denier: Maybe! Except warm temps cause the Ocean to release CO2. Plenty of data to suggest CO2 follows heat and does not cause it.
3) The planet is warming.
Warmist: Yes, and it's all caused by man, and we're all going to die!
Denier: Maybe, there are only 3 datasets of global temp records and all have been proven to contain corrupted temp readings. (weather stations in parking lots etc.) And far too few in distribution (only 1 in high arctic, and only 29% of the Earth's surface is even land) Satellite measurements can't find any warming.
4) A warming planet is BAD.
Warmist: YES! Everything is going to die! More Hurricanes! More Tornados! (we've had record lows) Plants and animals will go extinct! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Denier: NO! Human civilization has advanced during the warm periods of climate. We've been warmer before (without SUVs!!!) More food can grow. Plants thrive on greater CO2. More people die from cold temps than from heat.
5) Geologically, we're in a short warm period (10,000 years) between long ice ages (150,000 years +) And it happens to coincide with the rise of civilization.
Denier: YES. We've been much hotter, and much colder before, all without "man-made" anything to blame it on.
- The Freeper freaks denying science need to be outright banned from this website. Enough already.
- Damn - then I guess I'm a "denier", R193! ;)
(Great post, BTW!)
- We don't like your opinion, we can't rebut it without calling names, you are BANNED FROM HERE!
- [quote]The Freeper freaks denying science need to be outright banned from this website. Enough already.
Death to the Unbelievers! Burn them!
- The biggest threat from global warming is that viruses, bacteria, insects will all thrive, and they evolve faster than people and can easily wipe us out.
- [quote]The biggest threat from global warming is that viruses, bacteria, insects will all thrive, and they evolve faster than people and can easily wipe us out.
You mean like in the tropics? Where it's always hot and viruses, bacteria, and insects have been thriving for millions of years?
- [quote]Global Warming is stopping.
...except for the fact that it's not, as described in several links in detail above that you obviously haven't bothered to read.
In fact, it's the fact that the climate SHOULD be cooling, but is in fact WARMING, that is one of the clinching facts that humans are causing it (or at least exacerbating it).
- R199, you understand the concept of warming causing the tropics to expand, allowing all sorts of things (insects, diseases, etc.) to migrate into areas where they never existed before, right?
- [bold]U.N. climate report glosses over 15 years without global warming[/bold]
Governments have been pressuring the U.N. to downplay the lack of significant warming in the 15 years, as this report will play a key role in the upcoming climate negotiations in 2015. That’s when delegates will meet to hammer out a new Kyoto Protocol agreement.
Scientists have been struggling to explain the hiatus, with some arguing that it is due to natural variability in the climate system while others say the oceans have absorbed much of the warming over the last 15 years.
Global warming skeptics, however, have pointed to the data as evidence that the science behind the theory of manmade global warming is faulty and has been hijacked by activists and politicians.
'You have to pity the UN. The climate events of 2013 has been one of the most devastating to the UN’s political narrative on global warming,” said Marc Morano, publisher of Climate Depot, a climate skeptic website.
Morano added that 'both poles have expanding ice, with the Antarctic breaking all time records, global temperatures have failed to rise for 15 plus years, global cooling has occurred since 2002, polar bear numbers are increasing, wildfire’s are well below normal, sea level rise is failing to accelerate, tornadoes are at record lows, hurricanes are at record low activity, Gore’s organization is flailing and losing donors amid layoffs, former climate believers like Judith Curry are growing more skeptical by the day.'
- R202? That's already been addressed and debunked. I refer you back to the link in post R153.
- R202 - Nothing new. Algore's "hockey stick" fear-graph glossed over about 600 YEARS of data that didn't suit his objective.
- (rolling eyes at R204)
- Freepers, freepers and more freepers.
- r205, "eye rolling" is what 14-year-old girls do when they're frustrated.
- [quote]"eye rolling" is what 14-year-old girls do when they're frustrated.
Since you seem incapable of reason, shame or a rational discussion, there's not much to be done with your incessant spam bullshit, now is there?
You can't reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into.
If you're dead set on your belief that it's a scam, and cherry-pick "facts" to support that believe while ignoring all the ACTUAL facts that disprove it... there's really no point in doing anything beyond rolling eyes at you.
There can be no legitimate debate with those who have abandoned reason, logic, and facts.
- UN says with a "95% certainty" that manmade pollution is to blame for climate change. Which I guess is precisely why the flat-earth troll keeps posting obviously fake bullshit over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over over & over & over & over & over.
- The UN has an agenda which is 100% political.
They won't let science get in the way of their pre-determined conclusions.
- [quote]They won't let science get in the way of their pre-determined conclusions.
In this case, you pathetic trolling idiot child, science agrees with the UN conclusions.
Did you have a point to make, or are you just resorting to random jargon spew at this point?
- R210 - U.N.? Really? C'mon baby, if you're going to yank my cock, gimmie some lube! It HURTS otherwise! ;) At least I kissed your neck and gave you a nice reacharound! Now, work with me here!
- In your fucking dreams, R213.
- [quote]They won't let science get in the way of their pre-determined conclusions.
Except real scientists with no connection to the UN in any way came to the exact same conclusions.
- Meanwhile, back here on planet Earth: most rational, sane human beings realize that the climate is changing, very fast, and something has to be done immediately.
Which is precisely why idiot children like R211 keep pumping out tons upon tons of bullshit in an effort to obfuscate the issue.
Sad, really. Because in the end, nothing will get done, as we render the Earth uninhabitable.
- R216, are you asserting that the U.N.(IPCC) is apolitical in its aims and goals? You do know that in this very report, they were caught tossing the political football? Caught discussing and deciding how they would address the 16 year flat data problem? To do otherwise would "embolden the deniers" and blah, blah, blah - a total departure from science? Now please, girlfriend, do your homework.
- I'm not talking about the UN's goals, you pathetic child. I'm talking about the simple reality of climate change. Now shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.
- [quote]as we render the Earth uninhabitable.
No "real" scientist believes this.
- R217, you need to do YOUR homework. You're so fixated on bashing and denying that you're ignoring reality (and for the third time, the allegedly 'flat' numbers you refer to are anything but, and that talking point was debunked up above, in links you clearly haven't yet read, by scientists having nothing to do with the UN).
- Everyone is doesn't believe is on the payroll of big oil (ie. Satan)
- [quote]Everyone is doesn't believe is on the payroll of big oil
But yeah, follow the money... all the "Denialism" is being pushed by "think tanks" and "scientists" back by fossil fuel money.
If you can't see that, you're blind and ignorant.
Global warming isn't a "religion"... denialism is (i.e. unsupported by facts, but believed fervently by its followers regardless).
- [quote]No "real" scientist believes this.
Oh, dear God.
Go read a book that a real scientist wrote. Hell, read anything on the climate that wasn't funded by the Heritage foundation, Rupert Murdoch or ExxonMobil.
99.9% of all peer-reviewed scientists are in agreement as to what's happening to the planet. CO2 levels are continuously rising. These increased levels are acidifying the oceans. The permafrost is melting, releasing methane into the atmosphere, which is an intensely efficient greenhouse gas. At a certain point, left unchecked it turns into a runaway heating cycle.
Increased desertification, increased severe weather, rising sea levels. At some point in a runaway warming cycle, the food chain collapses; at another point methane begins to replace oxygen in the atmosphere. The Earth loses its ability to sustain animal and plant life. Fossil records reinforce the science of what happens when the planet heats up - the last time, everything died off except bacteria.
If I'm wrong, we wind up with increased wind and solar power. If you're wrong, the planet loses its ability to sustain life.
So enough with the corporatist horseshit, okay? It's beyond pathetic.
- Exactly, R223.
- The "Evangelical Human Created Global Warmists" are seeing the foundation of their faith shattered by the IPCC.
The fact that the world is COLDER than it was 16 years ago and that the models their PRIESTS (not scientists) used were fundamentally flawed...well, that's like asking a Catholic to say that Mary was a whore. They will never believe it, no matter how much evidence.
- We WISH there was global warming.
Since 1998 the planet is cooling, and a new Ice Age would destroy us.
The article at the link shows how the world is cooling.
- Global Warmists scary graph vs. reality.
- One AGAIN, R227 (what, are you guys fucking illiterate morons??), that ignorant talking point was debunked and explained already, up above.
I refer you YET AGAIN, to the article linked in post R153.
Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
There are none so blind as those who will not see. Or read. Or educate themselves.
And R226 is just fucking wrong.
- [bold]Climate change? Try catastrophic climate breakdown[/bold]
The message from the IPCC report is familiar and shattering: it’s as bad as we thought it was
Already, a thousand blogs and columns insist the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s new report is a rabid concoction of scare stories whose purpose is to destroy the global economy. But it is, in reality, highly conservative.
Reaching agreement among hundreds of authors and reviewers ensures that only the statements which are hardest to dispute are allowed to pass. Even when the scientists have agreed, the report must be tempered in another forge, as politicians question anything they find disagreeable: the new report received 1,855 comments from 32 governments, and the arguments raged through the night before launch.
In other words, it’s perhaps the biggest and most rigorous process of peer review conducted in any scientific field, at any point in human history.
There are no radical departures in this report from the previous assessment, published in 2007; just more evidence demonstrating the extent of global temperature rises, the melting of ice sheets and sea ice, the retreat of the glaciers, the rising and acidification of the oceans and the changes in weather patterns. The message is familiar and shattering: “It’s as bad as we thought it was.”
What the report describes, in its dry, meticulous language, is the collapse of the benign climate in which humans evolved and have prospered, and the loss of the conditions upon which many other lifeforms depend. Climate change and global warming are inadequate terms for what it reveals. The story it tells is of climate breakdown.
This is a catastrophe we are capable of foreseeing but incapable of imagining. It’s a catastrophe we are singularly ill-equipped to prevent.
The IPCC’s reports attract denial in all its forms: from a quiet turning away – the response of most people – to shrill disavowal. Despite – or perhaps because of – their rigours, the IPCC’s reports attract a magnificent collection of conspiracy theories: the panel is trying to tax us back to the stone age or establish a Nazi/communist dictatorship in which we are herded into camps and forced to crochet our own bicycles. (And they call the scientists scaremongers …)
More at the link:
- The fact that the Earth was warmer by 10-15 degrees over the last 1000 years proves that mankind is NOT the primary cause of the current trend. No one was burning oil in Greenland in the 10th century.
Well, actually, the CURRENT TREND is global COOLING!
- R230, are you really that retarded?
I love it. 15 years of zero warming equals bullshit.
- Except there hasn't been 15 years of zero warming, so...
(rolling eyes at the ignorant arrogance)
The IPCC report says that temps are the same as in the 1998 survey.
The Earth hasn't warmed since then.
- Fukashima gonna warm us up!
- It's not clear what effect any rising seas would have on people who live far inland. Also, with rising temperatures, wouldn't that make more of Canada livable and thus allow North Americans to move north to more favorable climate?
- R234, are you going to make me point you to R153 YET AGAIN?
What the fuck is wrong with you? You can't read? You don't grasp concepts?
Seriously, what the FUCK is your problem and why is it SO important to you to try and argue against all the science, educated and intelligent scientists, and all the data... why do you think you're smarter, and more informed than the experts? What is in it for you?
Because it's just bizarre to witness your selective blindness, your inability to read and understand even rather simple scientific concepts and data, and the way you cherry-pick "factoids" completely out of context to "prove" your argument... it's sad and pathetic.
You're wrong. Accept it. Deal it. Get over it. You're not an expert, and you're parroting people who are paid to LIE to you, which makes you a gullible tool on top of it all.
- [quote]you're parroting people who are paid to LIE to you
I heartily applaud you, R237, however you've got to realise that this very troll you are arguing with is HIMSELF paid to lie to people like us about these issues. You will never convince him because he actually has NO INTEREST IN THE TRUTH. He's not being paid to think.
He and his kind are sitting at workstations posting these bullshit "talking points" all over the 'net at the behest of their employers. They don't have brains, only scripts.
- I'm not so interested in changing the mind of denialists, but in inoculating others that might be lurking against their lies, propaganda, and bullshit.
- So. Much. Stupid. Here.
What sort of educated person can sit here and possibly deny that our global climate is in peril? Jesus christ.
- I belive we are in serious trouble.
- [bold]Exposing The Money Behind Climate Change Denial[/bold]
Yesterday, I was doing some reading about who is funding the push behind discrediting that climate change is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. That was when I came across the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
According to SourceWatch, the Competitive Enterprise Institute is an “advocacy group based in Washington DC with long ties to tobacco disinformation campaigns.” Turns out they also “dispute the overwhelming scientific evidence that human induced greenhouse gas emissions are driving climate change. They have a program for “challenging government regulations”, push property rights as a solution to environment problems, opposed US vehicle fuel efficiency standards, and spin for the drug industry.”
The Washington Post reports, not surprisingly, that Rand Paul was the keynote speaker at this year’s CEI’s Annual Dinner. Top donors for this dinner included the energy sector which “donated $110,000 to the event, the same amount given by conservative foundations (three of which are associated with the billionaires Charles and David Koch). But the biggest single donor is Google, which gave $50,000, and Facebook kicked in $25,000.”
(lots more at the link):
- There is enough CO2 in the air right now to affect seriously LARGE temperature increases. Like 20-30 degrees globally. Many of you will not survive.
- Articles (like the one at the link) are why most people no longer believe in AGW.
Yawn- so over the last 50 years the world is ONE WHOLE DEGREE warmer!
When these religious fanatics can explain why the planet was MUCH warmer a thousand years ago (warm enough for the Greenland glaciers to recede) and how CO2 has doubled in 20 years while temps have risen one whole fucking degree...well, then you have science.
- That chicken must be awfully tired of getting fucked up the ass, R245.
- [quote]Articles (like the one at the link) are why most people no longer believe in AGW.
Why... because people are offended by factual presentations?
You're an idiot. An ignorant idiot. You have no concept of what it means for the *global average* temperature to be a full degree warmer, and how much energy that represents. Or that it's a Celsius degree, not a Fahrenheit degree, I'm betting (i.e. it's significantly more than the 'one degree' you're thinking of).
You wouldn't know science if it bit you on your fast, lazy ass.
- Here's another argument... one that doesn't assume global warming is true. An argument for both skeptics and believers alike. Yeah, it's almost 10 minutes. But it's interesting and insightful and thoughtful.
- The article at r242 needs its own post.
- The Webmaster likes to just close global warming threads, so I'm not feeling overly compelled to give it a thread of its own. I'm rather surprised this one, among all the other fallen threads, has remained open.
- 51% Growth In Thick Arctic Ice Over Last Year
- You're so silly, R253. I bet you believe in unicorns too.
- Let's face it, it's way too late. We've already killed ourselves. It's over.
Greedy Corporations always win. But I'm pretty sure their extra money won't save from the mess they have created.
- Believe it or not, a lot of religious fanatics believe in Global Warming.
- A lot of religious fanatics believe in it and also don't care because they interpret the bible to mean that god gave them the planet so that they could use it up. And of course a lot of religious fanatics are actively trying to bring about the "end times", so they care even less because they're going to heaven with jesus! So fuck the rest of us.
- Yes, that's probably true, r257. Sometimes I like to pretend that they aren't all idiots.
- Anyway, it's obviously to late to turn it around. I believe that Obama realizes that. Realizes that corporations are fighting tooth and nail against change and he's got enough on his plate already, with Republican jerk-offs trying to overthrow our government on a daily basis he hasn't got time for what won't do any good.
Until America takes it's government away from corporations, we have no hope.
- How can so many computer models be so stupid?
Oh that's right, they were programmed that way!
- R260, if you want any credibility, you should stop using the DailyMail as a source. It's like using FOX News as a source. It just makes people point and laugh at you.
The alleged "pause" was also explained up above... it ignores ocean warming. The total energy is still going up dramatically. And reality has actually outstripped even "liberal" models and projections. Every measure of reality is proving to be worse than predicted a few years before.
But, you know, keep on sticking your head in the sand, stewing in irrational denialism. Obviously you, and the partisan ideologic hacks at the DailyMail know more about climate than 10,000 climate scientists all over the world. (rolling eyes)
- GLOBAL WARMING BATTLE ‘HAS BECOME A RELIGION’
People who believe that the world is facing catastrophe from climate change have adopted the cause as a “substitute religion”, according John Howard, the former Prime Minister of Australia.
- And John Howard is an ignorant moron in this case. Hardly a literate scientist.
- Is it just me, or is the reply at 264 completely empty?
- Ridiculous R253. You can't compare one day in one year to one day in another year.
Anyway, I don't think it's true that there is that much ice coverage already this year.
- Frankly, I hope it comes soon, I wish the animals didn't have to suffer because of what we've done but there is no way around it.
- r265, it is empty. That was me. I wrote a message, thought better of it, and deleted it. I must have hit "back to threadlist" too soon or something.
- R268- now why don't you tell us what you were going to say? it is like you are leaving us hanging or keeping a secret.
- See this is the comparison. It turns out 2013 is a normal amount of sea ice in the Arctic, which had a cold summer, and 2012 is the lowest year on record. So that has all the conservabots saying "record sea ice formation" when in truth it's just a one-year return to normalcy and will likely be undone and then some next year.
- So in other words, r270, when the global warmists were pointing to last summer as PROOF of gobal warming and an ice free arctic, nobody should listen to them, because it was just a warm year, and these things happen?
- Not just a warm year, the warmest for which there is any record R271 and one of an increasing number of warm years.
- Year over year change in Global sea ice area.
Who turned off the global warming?
- R273, how many times do you have to repeat the same shit, even though it's been explained and debunked MULTIPLE TIMES in this very thread alone?
Did you even READ the rest of this thread, or are you just here to spread your misinformation mindlessly?
- LOL, you hysterical MARYS
Meryl Streep and her poisoned apples
- [quote]Did you even READ the rest of this thread, or are you just here to spread your misinformation mindlessly?
You answered your own question, R274. You aren't talking to a real person who actually gives a shit. It's just the usual freeper trolls, paid to spread lies.
- It's funny how many people have bought into the myth of Global Warming.
In the 70s, it was that the world was going to run out of oil in 10 years. LOL.
In the 80s/90s, it was that the ozone holes over the poles were spreading. LOL.
Now we have the Global Warming people running around saying that the earth is warming and it will be the end of life as we know it. LOL.
As P.T. Barnum used to say....
- r277, you forgot "The Population Bomb" (1968)
by Paul Ehrlich, one of Global Warming's biggest cheerleaders.
His big prediction: The world is running out of food. Mass starvation. Billions will die.... in the 1970's.
- I'm sure the people in the path of that mega typhoon are laughing right along with you R277/R278. Laugh it up genius.
- R277, a perfect example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
False equivalencies, and no knowledge of what was actually said, or why, or how it's different now.
- To those idiots who think there was no warming in the last decade...:
[bold]Recent surface warming has probably been underestimated[/bold]
[italic]Filling in data gaps with satellites makes the last few years a little warmer.[/italic]
If you want to take someone’s temperature to see if they have a fever, you know where to put the thermometer. (Sorry, infants.) But where do you take the temperature of Earth’s climate? Inconveniently, the answer is “everywhere”—you need measurements covering the planet to properly calculate the global average surface temperature. That’s no big deal for Europe, where a local weather station is never far away, but it's much more of a problem for the North and South Poles where records are hard-won. A new analysis shows that how you deal with this problem makes a difference in what temperature you end up reading.
Building a global temperature dataset is a huge undertaking, because that’s only the half of it. Lots of careful corrections need to be made to the raw measurements to account for things like instrument changes, weather station placement, and even the time of day the station is checked.
One of the most commonly used datasets, dubbed “HadCRUT4” in its current incarnation, is maintained by the UK Met Office and researchers at the University of East Anglia. That dataset lacks temperature records over 16 percent of the globe, mostly parts of the Arctic, Antarctic, and Africa. Each group that manages one of these datasets faces this problem, but deals with it a little differently. In HadCRUT4, the gaps are simply dropped out of the calculated average; in NASA’s GISTEMP dataset, these holes are filled in by interpolating from the nearest measurements.
The new study by Kevin Cowtan of the University of York and Robert Way of the University of Ottawa evaluates a few different methods for dealing with these gaps, and shows that HadCRUT4 has probably been off by an important amount for over the last few years.
Cowtan and Way did what the people behind the big datasets do: left out the holes or filled them in using the nearest data. But they also developed a different technique that took advantage of satellite data. Satellites may seem like the obvious solution to the problem of maintaining thermometers in the middle of Antarctica, but they have their own problems. First, it’s tricky to measure the temperature of a specific, and very thin, layer of the atmosphere from orbit, since your instrument has to look through all of the rest of the atmosphere to do so. Second, the layer the satellites are monitoring extends much higher above the surface than our thermometers do.
Instead of merely copying satellite data and pasting it into the surface thermometer gaps, they used the satellite data to intelligently guide the filling of the holes with the closest surface measurements.
To test these three methods, the researchers artificially removed measurements across regions of the Earth and compared how close each method came to correctly calculating the global mean of the complete dataset. Just filling in with the nearest data (the NASA method) did a little better than leaving the gaps out (the HadCRUT4 method), but the method that used satellite data performed best.
Applying that method to the actual holes in the HadCRUT4 dataset yielded some interesting results, seen in the image below. Most notably, the abnormally warm El Niño year of 1998 becomes a little less extreme, and most of the last decade gets a little warmer. The difference in the last few years comes from the missing data in the Arctic, which is the fastest-warming region on Earth.
Together, those small changes (which are within the HadCRUT4 error bars) have a big impact on the calculated short-term warming trend. The trend for the period from around 1998 to present, which opponents of action on climate change frequently point to when arguing that climate scientists have got it all wrong, more than doubles to 0.12 °C per decade.
- To you idiot Freeper denialists: Do you have children? Are you related to children? Do you give any rat's ass about their futures? It's YOU, dumbasses, and your spawn and your spawn's spawn that are going to suffer, big-time. So deny all you want. To use one of your favorite Freeper quotes: WAKE UP!!!!!!!
I don't have children and I am glad. I wouldn't birth a baby into this world now for anything. My relatives are mostly Freeps, and their kids, learning well as Freeps-in-training, through the generations.
I feel sorrow for the animals, as mentioned upthread.
- [bold]Faux Pause: Media Ignore Study Finding Globe Is Warming Twice As Fast As Thought [/bold]
After hyping an alleged "pause" in global warming, mainstream media have entirely ignored a groundbreaking study finding that warming over the last 16 years has actually proceeded at the same rate as it has since 1951 with no "pause" compared to that time period.
The study, published in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society by Dr. Kevin Cowtan of the University of York and Robert Way of the University of Ottawa, found that the average global surface temperature has warmed 0.12 degrees Celsius between 1997 and 2012 (see the bold "Global" line in the graph above) -- two and a half times the UK Met Office's estimate of 0.05°C (see "Met Office" line). According to the new estimate, over the last 16 years the globe has warmed at the same rate as it has since 1951.
Writing about the study at the scientific blog Real Climate, climate scientist Stefan Rahmstorf concluded that the public debate about the "pause" has "become"completely baseless"and that any speed bump in warming is "not surprising" with natural variability:
[quote]The public debate about the alleged "warming pause" was misguided from the outset, because far too much was read into a cherry-picked short-term trend. Now this debate has become completely baseless, because the trend of the last 15 or 16 years is nothing unusual - even despite the record El Niño year at the beginning of the period. It is still a quarter less than the warming trend since 1980, which is 0.16 °C per decade. But that's not surprising when one starts with an extreme El Niño and ends with persistent La Niña conditions, and is also running through a particularly deep and prolonged solar minimum in the second half.
An earlier Media Matters analysis found that mainstream media mentioned the alleged "pause" in nearly half of coverage of a major international climate report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). However, media have often been reluctant to cover data contradicting that narrative, including a study finding that heat may have been stored in the intermediate depths of the ocean, where warming has proceeded 15 times faster than in the past 10,000 years, rather than in the atmosphere.
As for claims that global warming has "stopped" or that global warming is "[o]ver," the study found with 94 percent probability that there has been some warming over the last 16 years. Dr. Cowtan wrote that "the hypothesis that warming has accelerated ... is four times as likely as the hypothesis that warming has stopped."
(more at the link)
- Without exception, the deniers get debunked and owned, again and again.
And yet they still persist in their delusional denial. Why? To what end? It's such a bizarre thing to me... this willful denial of obvious reality for no good reason I can fathom.
- [quote]Recent surface warming has probably been underestimated
There's that pesky "probably" word again.
They don't KNOW anything. We entering "magical thinking" territory here.
- Storms are getting bigger and more destructive every year. We used to get a f4 tornado about every 20 years now it's a yearly occurrence.
- R286, just keep working your head farther up your ass like that... just keep working it...
- The Illinois tornado this week is the latest F5 tornado ever recorded. Ever.
Remember when tornado season used to be just in the spring?
Yeah, those days are long gone.
When "Once a century" storms happen every couple or three years, you gotta reset your notion of what normal is.
- Alarmists Already Blaming Sunday's Tornadoes on Warming (They Used To Blame Cooling)
Back in 1975 “the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded”, killed “more than 300 people”, this according to Newsweek was among “the ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically”.
That article was published on April 28, 1975, when Newsweek listed the US tornado disaster of 1974 as one of the harbingers of disastrous global cooling, heralding the approach of a new ice age.
- (rolling eyes at the denialist at R290, who continues to ignore all current data, and keeps digging up debunked crap from the past)
- (Reuters) - China will eventually scrap family planning restrictions, a senior official said on Tuesday, days after the government announced it will allow millions of families to have two children.
China, with nearly 1.4 billion people, is the world's most populous country. The government says the policy of limiting families to one child, which covers 63 per cent of the population, has averted 400 million births since 1980.
But the policy is increasingly seen as harmful to the economy.
- The addition of the new tornado outbreak (approx 75 of them) still leaves the U.S. BELOW the all time record LOW of Tornados.
That's right. It's a record LOW year.
Where did all the tornados go?
Or does high CO2 cause tornados to DECREASE in frequency?
- R293 loves to flaunt his ignorance.
- [bold]Weekend Tornado Surge Bumps 2013 Up To Quietest Tornado Season On Record[/bold]
- Oh joy. The same idiot wingnut troll @R295 who's trumpeting Obamacare as a "disaster" is our climate change denialist.
I wonder how much he gets paid to shill on the internets.
- Here's the thing:
If denialists are wrong, then we have basically disaster... famine, disease, wars, deaths, all on massive scales, up and to the point of collapsing civilization.
If the AGW people are wrong, the worst thing that happens is we spend a little more to have cleaner air, cleaner water, healthier people, more sustainable energy sources, cleaner energy sources, more local/self-sufficient energy sources.
Seriously, when you look at it that way, why the fuck does anyone even give the denialist position a second thought? They're just nuts... defenders of the utterly broken status-quo.
- UN IPCC lead author Dr. Richard Tol:
"we're now learning that the climate problem may not be as bad as we thought"
- (rolling eyes at R298)
Keep grasping at those straws.
- You're rolling your eyes at the Dr. Richard Tol?
Are you a 12-year-old girl?
- I'm rolling eyes at R298, who is cherry-picking out of context in order to try and cling to a belief that is completely wrong and highly destructive.
I refer you to R297.
- Well, I'm terrified.
- [quote]UN IPCC lead author Dr. Richard Tol: "we're now learning that the climate problem may not be as bad as we thought"
Ah yes. Because when I want the straight truth on climate change, I ask a climate-change-denying economist.
- You're all gonna need O2 concentrators and they require loads of energy.
- This explains why I don't understand the position of the deniers:
This isn't Pascal's wager- the costs of reducing CO2 by a fraction will cost tens or hundreds of billions with no clear reward, but explicit costs. The majority of big polluters (China, India) aren't even trying.
A richer world (something that will happen) will be able to mitigate "climate change" better than a poorer world run by incompetent bureaucrats.
- And yet the outcome will be worse
- How, R307?
- More destruction on account of greater climate change
- More perspective on the delusional position of denialists:
- [bold]Global-warming ‘proof’ is evaporating[/bold]
The 2013 hurricane season just ended as one of the five quietest years since 1960. But don’t expect anyone who pointed to last year’s hurricanes as “proof” of the need to act against global warming to apologize; the warmists don’t work that way.
Warmist claims of a severe increase in hurricane activity go back to 2005 and Hurricane Katrina. The cover of Al Gore’s 2009 book, “Our Choice: A Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis,” even features a satellite image of the globe with four major hurricanes superimposed.
Yet the evidence to the contrary was there all along. Back in 2005 I and others reviewed the entire hurricane record, which goes back over a century, and found no increase of any kind. Yes, we sometimes get bad storms — but no more frequently now than in the past. The advocates simply ignored that evidence — then repeated their false claims after Hurricane Sandy last year.
And the media play along. For example, it somehow wasn’t front-page news that committed believers in man-made global warming recently admitted there’s been no surface global warming for well over a decade and maybe none for decades more.
Nor did we see warmists conceding that their explanation is essentially a confession that the previous warming may not have been man-made at all.
That admission came in a new paper by prominent warmists in the peer-reviewed journal Climate Dynamics. They not only conceded that average global surface temperatures stopped warming a full 15 years ago, but that this “pause” could extend into the 2030s.
Mind you, the term “pause” is misleading in the extreme: Unless and until it resumes again, it’s just a “stop.” You don’t say a bullet-ridden body “paused” breathing.
Remarkably, that stoppage has practically been a state secret. Just five years ago, the head of the International Panel on Climate Change, the group most associated with “proving” that global warming is man-made and has horrific potential consequences, told Congress that Earth is running a “fever” that’s “apt to get much worse.” Yet he and IPCC knew the warming had stopped a decade earlier.
Those who pointed this out, including yours truly, were labeled “denialists.” Yet the IPCC itself finally admitted the “pause” in its latest report.
The single most damning aspect of the “pause” is that, because it has occurred when “greenhouse gases” have been pouring into the atmosphere at record levels, it shows at the very least that something natural is at play here. The warmists suggest that natural factors have “suppressed” the warming temporarily, but that’s just a guess: The fact is, they have nothing like the understanding of the climate that they claimed (and their many models that all showed future warming mean nothing, since they all used essentially the same false information).
If Ma Nature caused the “pause,” can’t this same lady be responsible for the warming observed earlier? You bet! Fact is, the earth was cooling and warming long before so-called GHGs could have been a factor. A warm spell ushered in the Viking Age, and many scientists believe recent warming was merely a recovery from what’s called “the Little Ice Age” that began around 1300.
Yet none of this unsettles the rush to kill debate. The Los Angeles Times has even announced that it will no longer print letters to the editor questioning man-made global warming. Had the Times been printing before Columbus, perhaps it would have banned letters saying the Earth was round.
Meanwhile, the Obama administration continues to push to reduce supposed global-warming emissions. Last month, the president even signed an executive order establishing a Council on Climate Preparedness and Resilience that could dramatically expand government bureaucrats’ ability to restrict Americans’ use of their property, water and energy to reduce so-called “greenhouse gas emissions.”
- Such attempted reductions in other countries have proved incredibly expensive, while barely reducing emissions. But damn the stubbornly weak economy, says President Obama, full speed ahead!
This, even as new data show that last year the US median wage hit its lowest level since 1998 and long-term unemployment is almost the highest ever.
People have a right to religious and cult beliefs within reason. But the warmists have been proved wrong time and again, each time reacting with little more than pictures of forlorn polar bears on ice floes and trying to shut down the opposition.
(More bad timing: Arctic ice increased by almost a third this past year, while that at the South Pole was thicker and wider than it’s been in 35 years.)
In war and in science, the bloodiest conflicts always seem to be the religious ones. Time for the American public to say it’s no longer going to play the victim in this one.
- R312, the economy is only "stubbornly weak" because stubborn and obstructionist Republicans are making it so.
[quote]This, even as new data show that last year the US median wage hit its lowest level since 1998 and long-term unemployment is almost the highest ever.
Again, all issues with conservatism & Republicanism. If their obstruction would end, the economy would roar back to life, unemployment would drop, social safety net costs would drop, median/mean income would rise, the deficit would drop like a stone, and all of the necessary mitigation steps required to deal with a changing climate would be more than affordable, it'd actually create new jobs and industries.
[quote]But the warmists have been proved wrong time and again
This isn't true at all, and in fact is the opposite of true. The denialists are the ones proven wrong time and time again. Also note the denialist are mostly the same people and funded by the same sources as those who denied cigarette smoking was dangerous to your health. Again, these people haven't been right about much of anything.
So you're wrong, fundamentally, factually, historically, and logically R312.
- A little backgroun on Michael Fumento, the idiot responsible for the kneejerk swill posted on R311/312:
[quote]Michael Fumento is a journalist and shameless corporate shill. He was embedded in Iraq and Afghanistan, but mostly works on health and environmental issues denialism. Write down any public health or environmental issues you can think of on scraps of paper, pull one out of a hat, and there's a 99.9% chance Fumento has written some hit piece denying it or minimizing while crying "alarmism!" His first book-length excretion was published in the 1980s, called The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS. (NB: Fumento does not deny the existence of AIDS, he merely claims that the AIDS epidemic is minimal and therefore requires no action.) He has also denied any risk from DDT, global warming, second-hand smoke, SARS, swine flu, and the possibility of an avian flu pandemic. Scripps-Howard dropped him from syndication in 2006 after it was discovered that Monsanto had dumped a boatload of cash into the Hudson Institute, where Fumento was employed while he wrote numerous biotech columns and BioEvolution, essentially a book-length advertisement for Monsanto. It was no surprise, either, when it was discovered that he was being bankrolled by Philip Morris as well through The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC). He's been around the block in terms of the Beltway conservative and libertarian think tanks — he's been employed by the Hudson Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, and Reason.
- [quote]If the AGW people are wrong, the worst thing that happens is we spend a little more to have cleaner air, cleaner water, healthier people, more sustainable energy sources, cleaner energy sources, more local/self-sufficient energy sources.
No, look at the radical difference in the quality of the air, water, food, soil, etc. in China or India when compared to West Europe or North America.
More money=better environment.
By WASTING hundreds of billions (when the cost of taxes, regulations, etc. are compiled) the loss of purchasing power results in lower standards of living for everyone.
- R315, that is the most bizarrely irrational and illogical line of so-called "reasoning" I've ever seen in my fucking life. Are you kidding me? That's not even reaching. That's not even making shit up. That's just plain old fucking stupid.
- Yes, Dr. Tol should be ignored- he has NO credentials!
Tol obtained an MSc in Econometrics and Oprations Research and a PhD in economics from the VU University Amsterdam in 1992 and 1997. In 1998, he contributed with some 19 other academics to a joint project of the United Nations Environment Programme at his home university. Tol collaborated with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
He regularly participates in studies of the Energy Modeling Forum, is an editor of Energy Economics, associate editor of Environmental and Resource Economics, and a member of the editorial board of Environmental Science and Policy, and Integrated Assessment. IDEAS/RePEc ranks him among the top 250 economists in the world.
Tol specialises in energy economics and environmental economics, with a particular interest in climate change, such as the economics of global warming. Previously, Tol was a Research Professor at the Economic and Social Research Institute. Before that, Tol was the Michael Otto Professor of Sustainability and Global Change and director of the Center for Marine and Atmospheric Sciences and board member of the Center for Marine and Climate Research at the University of Hamburg. Tol was a board member of the International Max Planck Research Schools on Earth System Modeling and Maritime Affairs and the European Forum on Integrated Environmental Assessment. From 1998-2008 he was an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University's Department of Engineering and Public Policy, and from 2010-2011 an adjunct professor at Trinity College, Dublin's Department of Economics.
Please explain how exposing that wasting hundreds of billions on bullshit is bizarre.
- That you think anything is or would be 'wasted' or that you're "exposing" anything other than your ignorance and slavery to parroting propaganda you don't even understand is hilarious to me.
Global warming hysterics at the BBC warned us in 2007 that by summer 2013, the Arctic would be ice-free. As with so many other doomsday predictions by warmists, the results turn out to be quite the opposite. The UK Daily Mail reports:
A chilly Arctic summer has left 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year - an increase of 29 per cent. (snip)
...days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia's northern shores.
The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.
Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century - a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.
In the United States, President Obama still plans to bypass Congress, which like the American people is highly skeptical of the discredited-by-events predictions, and use administrative regulations and executive orders to impose drastic and expensive carbon restrictions on the American economy. These will cost jobs and lower the standard of living particularly for lower income Americans, who can least afford the higher electricity, food, gasoline, and other prices that inevitably will result.
Global warming is the most expensive and widespread con job in the history of the world. There must be a terrible reckoning for the "scientists" and profiteers who have foisted this crackpot atrocity on the world.
- R320 continues to parrot nonsense that has been debunked or explained before (i.e. he's presenting spin, cherry-picked 'factoids' taking out of context, etc)
The "cooling" canard has been endlessly debunked as well.
Every dollar wasted on stopping "global warming" is stolen from taxpayers.
The planet is the same temperature it was in 1998- even the ardent global warming fanatics now admit that- so all the money stolen from taxpayers to pay idiot priests...I mean "scientists"...is wasted.
Is that too complex for you?
- [quote]Every dollar wasted on stopping "global warming" is stolen from taxpayers.
An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You're an idiot, proving the adage that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"... you're obviously easily manipulated by people paid to manipulate gullible tools like you.
- Remember that really scary “hockey stick” graph IPCC used to show that rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations would send global temperatures soaring? And recall all the ballyhoo about CO2 levels reaching a 400 ppm record high? Yet last February even IPCC’s chairman Rajenda Pachuri has admitted that world temperature data has been flat for the past 17 years. And that was after the British media reported that the UK Met Office was projecting a 20-year standstill in global warming by 2017.
Where does the money come to stop so-called "global warming" if it isn't money stolen from citizens to fund bullshit studies?
- R324 hasn't read the thread, as his "point" has been refuted and debunked above several times. Good lord, illiterate knee-jerk morons just love reposting the same old debunked crap again and again, don't they?
- How much does Exxon, Shell, BP, or the Koch brothers pay you to post here you bizarre denialist psycho R315/R318/R318/R320/R322/R324?
Just curious how much you're making spreading this shit...
I'm not the one refusing to confront the facts, refusing to believe the science, and calling names like a third grader at people who actually know what's going on.
Do you disagree that global temperatures have been stable for 15 years?
Do you disagree that the ice sheets in the Arctic are growing each year?
Do you disagree that climate priests...I mean scientists...have been wrong for 20 years about their projections?
In 1990 they predicted that New York and much of the costal regions would be under a foot of water. Where is the mea culpa?
- Global warming alarmists are regularly prophesying about doomsday scenarios -- except they're doing it in newspapers and from the stages of swanky resorts where they've flown in their private jets. Unlike the old school soothsayers, the Al Gore's of the world have figured out how to turn doom-mongering into a multi-billion dollar industry.
As you read these global warming predictions, visions, prophecies, fantasies, whatever you want to call them, ask yourself a question: if this is based on science, why do we have these huge differences in scenarios and dates? It's almost as if these people are all just pulling numbers out of their hats and putting them out there instead of basing their projections on any sort of real scientific evidence.
1) At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind.”
2) The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years. If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age. -- Kenneth Watt, Ecologist
3) A high-priority government report warns of climate change that will lead to floods and starvation. ‘Leading climatologists’ speak of a ‘detrimental global climatic change,’ threatening ‘the stability of most nations.’ The scenario is eerily familiar although the document — never made public before — dates from 1974. But here’s the difference: it was written to respond to the threat of global cooling, not warming. And yes, it even mentions a ‘consensus’ among scientists. -- Maurizio Morabito
- [quote]I'm not the one refusing to confront the facts, refusing to believe the science
Actually yes you are. That describes you to a T. You're definitely ignoring the facts and science (corroborated across dozens of scientific disciplines and tens of thousands of scientists in hundreds of countries). You're basically parroting fossil-fuel industry talking points.
And as for your questions, every one of them was dealt with and dismissed (or explained) above. Which is why I know you're just a troll.
And many of your assertions are just plain wrong ... or you're attributing one extremist making an offhand comment for "scientific consensus", which is one of the more brilliant methods of propaganda brainwashing that the right-wing uses. But however successful that strategy is on the ignorant and weak minded (like you), it's still a logical fallacy.
- R329, all three points you made are completely false. You make me laugh.
Interestingly, the Department of Defense considers climate change the biggest threat to national security that exists. That little fact doesn't jibe well with your propaganda though.
Again, how much is the Koch corporation paying you for this crap?
When someone is so ignorant of science and then claims someone else is "ignoring the facts and science" it makes me laugh. It's a sad, pitying laugh, but a laugh.
Please post the first IPCC predictions.
Please post the subsequent revisions when none of them came true.
Please post how they predicted that the Arctic ice sheet would be gone by 2013, while reality laughed at them.
Please just post some of their predictions.
Oh, you're too scared to expose how ignorant you are?
Well, then let me do it for you.
When an organization is wrong- no, not wrong, but AMAZINGLY wrong for 20 years, most people become skeptics.
- Yet the leaked report makes the extraordinary concession that over the past 15 years, recorded world temperatures have increased at only a quarter of the rate of IPCC claimed when it published its last assessment in 2007.
Back then, it said observed warming over the 15 years from 1990-2005 had taken place at a rate of 0.2C per decade, and it predicted this would continue for the following 20 years, on the basis of forecasts made by computer climate models.
But the new report says the observed warming over the more recent 15 years to 2012 was just 0.05C per decade - below almost all computer predictions.
The 31-page ‘summary for policymakers’ is based on a more technical 2,000-page analysis which will be issued at the same time. It also surprisingly reveals: IPCC scientists accept their forecast computers may have exaggerated the effect of increased carbon emissions on world temperatures – and not taken enough notice of natural variability.
They recognise the global warming ‘pause’ first reported by The Mail on Sunday last year is real – and concede that their computer models did not predict it. But they cannot explain why world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase since 1997.
- Already done above. That's what's so tedious about you trolls. You post these lame, cherry-picked assertions without backing and demand over and over again that others disprove them... even after they already have.
In reality, most predictions have actually turned out to be too conservative. But you don't know that because the only info you get is cherry-picked spin that ignores the reality of the real consensus at the time.
You wouldn't know actual science or real facts if they came up and bit you on the ass. You're engaging in propaganda, nothing more.
- The chart at the link compares IPCC predictions to reality, and shows how full of shit they are.
- [quote]Yet the leaked report makes the extraordinary concession that over the past 15 years, recorded world temperatures have increased at only a quarter of the rate of IPCC claimed when it published its last assessment in 2007.
Again, this is explained in links above... the deep oceans have warmed much faster. But you ignore this because it doesn't fit your narrative. You tell half the story and pretend it's the whole story. Hell, you don't even tell half of it. You aim to mislead, that is your goal, and you'll ignore anything that doesn't further that goal.
- You're quoting the daily mail, which shows how full of shit YOU are. Might as well quote free republic, or TownHall.com, or FOX News...
- From Wikipedia (for our resident denialist):
Most scientists agree that humans are contributing to observed climate change. A meta study of academic papers concerning global warming, published between 1991 and 2011 and accessible from Web of Knowledge, found that among those whose abstracts expressed a position on the cause of global warming, 97.2% supported the consensus view that it is man made. In an October 2011 paper published in the International Journal of Public Opinion Research, researchers from George Mason University analyzed the results of a survey of 489 American scientists working in academia, government, and industry. Of those surveyed, 97% agreed that that global temperatures have risen over the past century and 84% agreed that "human-induced greenhouse warming" is now occurring, only 5% disagreeing that human activity is a significant cause of global warming. National science academies have called on world leaders for policies to cut global emissions.
In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view.
But who needs science, hey?
- Denialists seem to believe that 97% of all scientists are "unscientific"... and know less about climate science than they do.
Which is just unbelievably arrogant.
- R338 R339-
General "Scientists" may believe it, but the scientists that actually study climatology and weather have become very vocal about their disagreement with the current pop-culture of "climate change aka man made global warming".
- [quote]General "Scientists" may believe it, but the scientists that actually study climatology and weather have become very vocal about their disagreement with the current pop-culture of "climate change aka man made global warming".
Oh honey, now you're getting climate scientists and weather girls mixed up. Really, you're just embarrassing yourself.
- ROLLING STONE! Whoa...who can stop this paragon of truth? If RS says it, it must be worse than I thought...after all, they are so restrained and measured.
SECOND LEAD STORY ROLLING STONES: Groovy hipsters the Doobie Brothers reunite--demand EZWide papers in concert rider. Hysteria ensues. You heard it hear first. BTW, some important dude died in Africa, we think. Anyway, Doobies rule! And forget about it, Grateful Dead rock excessively.
More breaking news. Jann Wenner announces fellow billionaires suck and are racist homophobes.
- Did you have an actual point to make, R342?
- R324 Please stop confusing folks with knowledge. It hurts puny brains. In further news, George Soros, David Brock and MediaMatters rejects Defense Department claims that global warming is the most important issue of our times. Brock reports, "Defense Department targeting larger share of taxpayer funds to consolidate power using Global Warming to raise its revenue and destroy middle class."
Meanwhile, Soros, owner of MediaMatters has reported in his last FEC filing that he's purchased 700,000 shares of Global Warming Inc from owner of issue, Al Gore.
Ah...who to believe? Scientists (flatline for 20 years) or our billionaire carbon traders? I'm thinking....
- Okay, since the "GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL" troll won't provide facts, here is the official arctic ice coverage for 2013. It has grown instead of shrinking, despite the shrieking of the global warming crowd.
If the world is getting warmer, why are global temperatures the same as they were in 1998, and why are the ice sheets getting bigger.
Unless you can answer those two simple questions, you're full of shit.
Bonus question- please answer why the world was 20-30 degrees warmer a few million years ago, and why it was 15-30 degrees colder 200 years ago, and why it was 10-15 degrees warmer just 800 years ago?
You've heard of "Washington Crossing the Potomac"--- well, it was FROZEN. please explain why it was so much hotter, and colder, over the last few thousand years.
No, it only NEEDS to believe it is right.
None of the facts support global warming anymore, so it has to make hysterical statements to try to convince itself that it is right.
The fact that most people no longer worship at the altar of Global Warming scares it.
- Thank you, R345. Remember Dearest Leader's book: "Global warming science must be presented as a threat, a danger so great that we convince the American public to give us all their money to save them from themselves. We will then subjugate and destroy the middle class". Columbia University, Economics 322.
- Speaking of "full of shit"...every single "fact" you've quoted either comes from think-tank writers in the Daily Mail, or "scientists" (read: economists) on the Oil industry dole.
So pays you to spout this denialist horseshit over & over & over & over & over?
- Rolling Stone: Terrifying Amazing Wacky and Weird World of Global Warming. Show me the money, honey. Cashing in, checking out.
Table of Contents:
Terror of Weather: It's Raining, Bro! What's next? Snow???
Springsteen, the Brucester Weighs In On New Pope: "He's Pfat, Totally"
Jerry Garcia: Dead? Not? Take Our Poll and Vote!
Gyms: Infectious Diseases, Bicycle Seats and the Best Antibiotics
It hurts me- really, REALLY hurts me- to disabuse the faithful of their beliefs. They worship the "global warming" prophets, and refuse to accept that those prophets are not only false, but dangerous and duplicitous.
They preach the evil of energy, but fly private planes, live in massive houses, employ hundreds of minions, eat food that was flown thousands of miles, wear clothes made by slaves in China...basically they are all hypocrites that want to force the "little people" to live by rules they flaunt with impunity.
Look at how many of the big Banksters have been put in jail after 2008. Oh, wait, the "GE3" were released today on a technicality. No Fannie or Freddie or Goldie even faced prosecution. Even Mozillo got away!
The BIG boys in industry, banking, insurance, energy--- they throw private parties and give millions to "PACs" and so they get a free pass, while the bottom 99.9% pays for it.
Our government is corrupt, evil, sclerotic and dangerous. It needs to be PEACEFULLY dismantled---but it still has dimwit acolytes like R316
It is also
R319, R321/23/26/27/30/31/34/36/37/39 and obviously has no idea about how government or politics or economics or science or rational thought works.
The "Global Warming" snake oil salesmen are the danger.
You really need to take a look at what you're saying.
- How so?
- The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
I'm a geophysicist and I can tell you for a fact there is NOT a consensus about anthropomorphic caused global warming, but there is certainly agreement that climate change is happening and has ALWAYS been happening.
The fact is we don't have enough information to make accurate predictions. The last round of alarmist predictions touted around 2000 by Al Gore (not a scientist) was that islands would already have disappeared and massive changes would have happened already. NONE OF IT HAPPENED.
Climate change is, to most, about political control of personal behavior more than it is about impacting the earth's climate, as if we really have the ability to drive the sun and earth's relationship and other major nature-driven events.
If you've drunk the Kool Aid, you won't be able to step back and look at all the erroneous projections abotu warming and cooling that have been made in the past 30-40 years.
The earth is a dynamic system, and the climate has constantly changed. There used to be palm trees at the North Pole, long before humans.
- Ayn Rand...Ron Paul...Obamacare... Benghazi...drones... DRONES!!
Oh, yeah, Global Warming is a lie.
Back to DRONES!!!
- No, R348-
All of the posts have been from newsmags, but all link to the scientific article that they are based on.
There has been no warming for 15 years. The IPCC even admits that in their latest paper. They also admit shock at the size of Arctic and Antarctic ice. They also apologize for misusing data and methods.
The IPCC admitted they were frauds without saying the actual word.
Please show ONE- just one single prediction- they made 15 years ago that has come true.
If you can show one single incident where their models and bullshit actually predicted future weather I will apologize.
Until then you are a moronic tool who is too stupid to post on Sesame Street, let alone Datalounge.
Rolling Stone has been one of the only US media mags that has actually tried to expose the evils of Bush AND Obama, the evils of the big banks, the evils of our military...it would make sense they expose the evil nature of the "global warming"--- I'm sorry, the "Global Climate Change" industry and the scandals and big corporotacracy-fascistic players behind the scam.
- Thank you R20, your enthusiam truly trumps reason. Wish your broad claims came from a more respected publication. Perhaps you can illuminate us scientist types with a citation? A quote? Something impartial?
Now I realize the faculty at MIT aren't nearly as smart as you and your minders at the asylum, or even Jann Wenner, but they say definitively there is no warming. But MIT doesn't publish at Rolling Stone and you aren't allowed out of your padded cell, so we're not likely to get this resolved.
BTW, Noam Chomsky is still on MIT faculty. I suggest you google earth our dear professor and take a Zullia gander at his estate. Zoom in. The foremost car is a vintage 280 Mercedes (Mecum recently auctioned one for $400,000. The car behind it is a 7 series BMW, M designation. There is adjacent next to the carriage house a Cadillac SUV and a MG/TC and a Ferrari behind the doors. His personal wealth is now estimated by the university to be over 190.000.000 dollars. Over a hundred million of his fortune was earned from his 22.5 of Al Gore network sold to Al Jazeera.
- Just smoke copious amounts of pot, R356.
- R356 Courageous indeed my friend. I agree. Where else would I have ever learned of Paul McCartney's wife: did you know his former spouse had a missing leg? Telling it like it is. Speaking truth to power. Really! I'm with you bro, my go-to pub for science too. Jann Wenner. Ecologist, Rock Man, Climatologist. Genius.
- Any climate researcher will admit that noone fully understands the way the multitude of factors that drive global temperatures work in their entirety. What 97% of research papers focussing on climate agree on, however, is that we're in a period of global warming and that human activity is driving that warming. Are they all wrong? Are they all in the pocket of some strange socialist cabal? For all your cries of global warming being a con job, you've done nothing to establish your credentials as being any more authoritative than 97% of the world's climate researchers, and you've done nothing to debunk their findings but throw up a couple of anomalous findings that bear little relation to the overall picture. Why would the world's scientific community try to con us? You seem to have very little understanding of how scientific research is conducted and published. Do you think scientists from around the world are secretly colluding to trick us? How and why would they? Do you think they've fabricated the record-breaking temperatures the US has been recording in the past five years?
- [quote]but the scientists that actually study climatology and weather have become very vocal about their disagreement with the current pop-culture of "climate change aka man made global warming".
Uh... no. Sorry. Bzzzt. Thanks for playing.
Pointing out the multi-million dollar cars, houses and property of a man who preaches "radical income redistribution" and a destruction of the evil capitalists that made those cars and built that house...well, DUH!
Chomsky is a good (not great) linguist. He is also a good (not great) historian. He is a moron as far as economics.
Every week some new paper comes out exposing his weakness as a linguist, and I have no doubt he will be mocked by future generations of linguists as a charlatan and imbecile with a chip on his shoulder and an evil agenda in his brain.
If Noam really believed his bullshit he would be living in a shack, eating shoots and leaves (get it?) and giving all his salary to the homeless. His hypocrisy makes Al Gore look like Rosalind Russell.
- [quote]There has been no warming for 15 years.
[quote]The IPCC even admits that in their latest paper.
No they don't.
[quote]They also admit shock at the size of Arctic and Antarctic ice.
No, they don't, they actually explain it... and how it doesn't contradict AGW at all.
[quote]They also apologize for misusing data and methods
[quote]The IPCC admitted they were frauds without saying the actual word.
Not even close.
But you're pretty good at spinning, misrepresenting facts, and parroting propaganda, I'll give you that. Someone ignorant enough on the topic might actually even believe the bullshit you're peddling.
But really, you're working over time. Do the Koch brothers pay you time and a half or something?
Please show ANY global warming in the data.
Yes, starting in the 1700s the world started warming, but in the 1100s it was warmer than today. You could farm in fucking Greenland!
In the last 113 years the data show ZERO real warming. A rise by 2C? Statistically insignificant when you look at the placement of thermometers near concrete and asphalt. The bigger worry is global cooling- which shows up when all of the "urban" therms are removed.
60 years ago the winters were MUCH worse. Snow fell in GEORGIA in the 1950s! Now the southeast is getting colder again, as is the whole world.
I worry more about a new "mini ice age" than global warming. When the world is warmer, crops produce more, Europe is more habitable, more rain falls--- in a cold era, glaciers cover New York and most of Europe!
If you are going to be so obstinate and refuse to even look at the facts then I will quit replying to you.
Anyone who embraces ignorance isn't worth it.
- Here you go, r364:
The Earth's average surface temperature rose by 0.74±0.18 °C over the period 1906–2005. The rate of warming over the last half of that period was almost double that for the period as a whole (0.13±0.03 °C per decade, versus 0.07±0.02 °C per decade). The urban heat island effect is very small, estimated to account for less than 0.002 °C of warming per decade since 1900. Temperatures in the lower troposphere have increased between 0.13 and 0.22 °C (0.22 and 0.4 °F) per decade since 1979, according to satellite temperature measurements. Climate proxies show the temperature to have been relatively stable over the one or two thousand years before 1850, with regionally varying fluctuations such as the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age.
The warming that is evident in the instrumental temperature record is consistent with a wide range of observations, as documented by many independent scientific groups. Examples include sea level rise (water expands as it warms), widespread melting of snow and ice, increased heat content of the oceans, increased humidity, and the earlier timing of spring events, e.g., the flowering of plants. The probability that these changes could have occurred by chance is virtually zero.
- There has been a 60 per cent increase in the amount of ocean covered with ice compared to this time last year, they equivalent of almost a million square miles.
In a rebound from 2012′s record low an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores, days before the annual re-freeze is even set to begin.
The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year, forcing some ships to change their routes.
A leaked report to the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) seen by the Mail on Sunday, has led some scientists to claim that the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century.
If correct, it would contradict computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming. The news comes several years after the BBC predicted that the arctic would be ice-free by 2013.
- [quote]If you are going to be so obstinate and refuse to even look at the facts then I will quit replying to you. Anyone who embraces ignorance isn't worth it.
Right back at you.
You continue the conservative habit of accusing others of what you are in fact guilty of or what is actually true of yourself. It's pathological projection... an attribute of sociopaths the world over. And Republicans, Libertarians, & conservatives. But I'm being redundant.
As stated already, your points have been debunked already up-thread... the notion that there was any sort of "pause" in the warming has been proven to be bullshit... among other things.
Your willful ignorance blinds you to the debunking already posted.
- Here is a great paper about global warming published in 1979- it predicts that ALL coastal cities will be under at least 3M of water, and that the world will be 6C warmer.
Instead we are 1.2C warmer, and none of the coastal cities are under water since the poles have kept sea levels less than .1M higher than the 70s.
Ohhhhhhhh, the world got ONE DEGREE warmer between 1900-1998.
But then it stopped.
Please explain why "global warming" stopped in 1998.
- For r369:
Current sea-level rise is about 3 mm/year worldwide. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), "this is a significantly larger rate than the sea-level rise averaged over the last several thousand years", and the rate may be increasing. This rise in sea levels around the world potentially affects human populations (e.g., those living in coastal regions and on islands) and the natural environment (e.g., marine ecosystems). Between 1870 and 2004, global average sea levels rose 195 mm (7.7 in). From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009, a faster rate of increase than previously estimated. It is unclear whether the increased rate reflects an increase in the underlying long-term trend.
- Why do you expect me to explain something that didn't actually happen?
- No, R368-
Please show ANY real warming since 1998.
The IPCC reports show zero.
Quit whining like a bitch and show FACTS.
The world is the same temp today as it was 15 years ago, and no amount of bullshit or obfuscation will change that.
- R373, how any fucking times do I have to reference you to the previous posts that already contain all the information you keep demanding? Jesus Christ, it's so clear you haven't bothered to read the thread or any other posts. There are specific links that SPECIFICALLY address that SPECIFIC point.
Yet you keep demanding that info again and again.
Fuck you, you lazy troll. If you can't read the sources already provided in this very thread, then you're too stupid to bother with.
- This is too easy r373. I guess you get your news from FOx because it was widely reported in the past 6-8 weeks that there has been no pause or lull in global warming. For example...
“The planet is warming,” said Kevin Trenberth, a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and a reviewer for the IPCC report. “The warmth just isn’t being manifested at the surface.”
The warming at the ocean’s surface layer may have slowed a bit, but ocean temperatures in aggregate have continued to rise unchecked during the so-called hiatus, according to the IPCC. That’s important because while the atmosphere accounts for just 1 percent of planetary heat, the oceans carry 93% of the stored energy from climate change (melting ice and warming continents make up the rest).
In fact, there is mounting evidence that deeper regions of the ocean, down to 2000 meters, are absorbing heat faster than ever, Trenberth said in a phone call. His research shows the oceans began taking on significantly more heat at around the same time the surface warming began to slow in 1998. His widely cited work was published just after the cutoff to be included in the IPCC report.
- But, R371, can you explain why sea levels were much higher 1000 years ago?
Why Greenland was a lush paradise?
Or why the river Thames and Delaware froze over 270 years ago? Was that also man made climate change?
Until you can explain---
A) why it was much warmer 800-1100 years ago than it is today,
B) why it was so much colder 350-250 years ago
Then your bullshit is useless and unworthy of response.
Humans are a tiny, insignificant part of the biosphere. The sun (you know, that big yellow bright thing) is what warms us, and 99.9% of scientists think the solar cycles have some effect of global temperatures. But since they aren't climatologists their explanation of a heliocentric view of warming and cooling of the planet is dismissed.
I'm glad I'm smart enough to ignore fool like you and listen to the experts.
- R376 if you were actually listening to the experts, you'd know the actual answers to your questions (and which of your questions are deeply flawed).
Those links DON'T SHOW ANYTHING.
They are conjecture based on bad (really bad, religiously tinged pseudo-science) and have been disproven by 15 years of observation of REAL temps and weather.
If those links were real, they would explain the fact that the entire world- based on reports from hundreds of countries- is no warmer than it was in 1998.
Even the IPCC admits that global temps are the SAME AS THEY WERE IN 1998!!!
Jesus, get a clue!
- [quote]“The planet is warming,” said Kevin Trenberth, a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and a reviewer for the IPCC report. “The warmth just isn’t being manifested at the surface.”
So, the world is warming, but we can't see it because it is happening thousands of feet under the water.
Do you realize how stupid that sounds!
- r378, please meet r375.
- R378, yes, they do show something. They're more factually and scientifically based than any of the out of date stuff you've been throwing around.
Just because they don't confirm your chosen narrative, doesn't mean they show nothing. They show a lot. You're just willfully deaf to what they're telling you. Blind to what is right in front of your face.
Part of me doubts you even bothered to read the links (or even search for them). I mean, why would you? Becoming educated or actually exposing yourself to anything that contradicts your precious belief is not your goal here.
And yet you offer nothing to back your bullshit.
- You need to hone your debating skills, denialist troll @ r378. The only thing you're persuading us of is your idiocy. You are unable to provide any citations for your bullshit and you refuse to acknowledge any facts that don't fit your Fox News view of the world, so arguing with you is utterly pointless. The saddest thing is, your stupidity isn't really as astounding as it should be - it's rather common unfortunately.
- I offer nothing? I've posted a dozen links and explanations in this thread. If you're too lazy to read the thread, that isn't my problem or my fault.
- [bold]NOW I FINALLY GET IT![bold]
The climate change denialist is our resident Libertarian Idiot Troll(TM)!
Now it all makes sense! You're batshit crazy, completely impervious to logic or reason, and live in an alternate universe.
So I don't have to follow this thread anymore. You'll just keep bumping this thread up every six months, posting the same lunatic horseshit over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over &
Now it all makes sense.
- [bold]whoops, forgot to close the [/bold] tag.
- [/bold]out, damn tag!
Please explain why and how the planet was much warmer 1000 years ago, and much colder 250 years ago, and how AGW corrects for such global climate changes.
Oh, and why the world hasn't warmed since 1998.
[quote]You've heard of "Washington Crossing the Potomac"--- well, it was FROZEN.
- We caused the last ice age, and we're gonna cause the next.
- and yet...
U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science
- So much for this thread.
- Heh. Funny stuff.
If any climate crap was true, Al Gore wouldn't be the point man.
And minor league East Anglia University (Who? What? Well, think Fredonia State, but without that school's modest academic pretensions) wouldn't be the center of dissemination and collection of data.
MIT and Cal Tech would be the climate alarmists.
Climate change, formerly known as 'weather'. TM
- GOOGLE private jets blow 100 million lbs CO2 into atmosphere with its government subsidized fuel
Google execs have traveled millions of miles to playgrounds of the rich and famous
Several trips on company jets were to Washington D.C.
Planes are filled up with government-subsidized fuel and even get to park cheaply
Company maintains a green image yet does not practice what it preaches
- When Google and Gore turn in their private jets, I'll worry, until then, it's all bullshit so rich can consolidate their power and subsidies while beggering us into submission. Did you notice Al's carbon footprint was published? You can power an entire town of 25,0000 people with his annual carbon footprint! His response? He'd like to outlaw air travel entirely for us 'little people', while he flies around for free warning us that Climate Change is coming. Oh, and his travel is necessary, but not ours.
- Google has never pretended to be a global warming activist company. They are right-wing shits just like you. Please do keep attacking them.
Gore is "point man" for global warming? You think their is a conspiracy? No, conspiracy is how you and the right operate, a criminal conspiracy. If the left really operated that way, we would have a socialist full-employment economy. Instead we have a dysfunctional economy that mirrors your personal neuroses and paranoia.
- R396 Thank you for outing yourself, socialism forever! Google claims to be green, green, green. So next time, OP, use Google as your header. Or Gore. It's far worse to be a hypocrite on green issues.
Climate change, formerly known as weather. TM
- The people who deny climate change are the same people who claimed cigarettes are not addictive.
- Socialism is not the bugaboo word you can use to scare people anymore. It is beyond dispute that people in socialist countries like Sweden and Finland live better than people in the USA. Your model has failed, because it was based on stupidity and ideological nonsense, not reality or evidence.
- [quote]Your model has failed, because it was based on stupidity and ideological nonsense, not reality or evidence.
Reality has a well know liberal bias.
Enough of these[bold]Bold[/bold] Faced Lies!
- German Scientists Show Climate Driven By Natural Cycles – Global Temperature To Drop To 1870 Levels By 2100!
Climate reveals periodic nature, thus no influence by CO2
- Canada Environment minister Leona Aglukkaq posts photo of dead polar bear on Twitter
Leona Aglukkaq defended the polar bear hunt after adding the caption “Enjoy!!” to a photo of a freshly killed bear.
- Is Climate Change a Top Priority?
- That "study" was not from German scientists. It is from a German "think tank" financially supported by CFACT, which derives its funding from the Scaife family and Exxon-Mobil and is run by a former staffer of James Imhofe (R-Oklahoma).
Of the professors, one is Carl Otto Weiss, a visiting professor of BUSINESS at UNC, not a "scientist"
And the other, the spokesman for the German think tank Prof. Ludecke is a retired physicist who has maintained that the sun's activity is causing global warming rather than the composition of the atmosphere.
Of course solar astronomy is not in his area of expertise.
- [quote]Please explain why and how the planet was much warmer 1000 years ago, and much colder 250 years ago, and how AGW corrects for such global climate changes.
It wasn't. Research based on concrete evidence, say, tree rings and ice core samples, say quite the opposite - the planet is steadly getting hotter. See NASA link below. (say something nasty against NASA and I'll smack to you to Singapore and back)
Oh, and why the world hasn't warmed since 1998.
Again, bullshit. All evidence not funded by ExxonMobil says otherwise.
Must be nice to live in an alternate universe where the truth can just be wished away by corporate think tanks.
- The climate is getting colder! Listen to me! I have a Doctorate! In Renaissance Art History!
- And you can spout all the horseshit you like about the climate getting colder - real evidence, evidence not massaged by wingnut think tanks and the oil/gas industry - says otherwise.
- R408 Keep in mind, many of these people are the same ones who insisted Terri Schivio had a fully functioning brain. When the autopsy came out and said not true, they dismissed as meaningless. Facts are meaningless when it comes to Regressives.
- r406 is delusional.
Melting glaciers have revealed.... actual human settlements!
[quote]Research based on concrete evidence, say, tree rings and ice core samples, say quite the opposite
None of those things are "concrete evidence", they are all proxy's subject to much debate.
Ever notice how a scientist's "research" always seems to support his pre-research conclusions? Happens on every side of every issue. Funny how that works
- [quote]Melting glaciers have revealed.... actual human settlements!
Bullshit. Provide a link with proof to this crazy ass claim or be branded a liar.
- Melting Glacier Reveals Ancient Tree Stumps
- Archaeological Finds in Retreating Swiss Glacier
- Tree stumps are not human settlements. Finding artifacts in a glacier is not the same as finding an human settlement.
Conclusion? You are liar. Nothing you can say will be considered valid because you have been exposed as a liar.
- [quote]None of those things are "concrete evidence", they are all proxy's subject to much debate.
They are the [bold]ONLY MOTHERFUCKING CONCRETE EVIDENCE WE HAVE[/bold] of the temperature of the planet 1,000 years ago, you brainless fucking twat.
They [bold]DIDN'T KEEP TEMPERATURE RECORDS[/bold] until the 18th Century.
Jesus, you're a persistent idiot.
- Libertarians are more impervious to logic and reason than born-again Christians. And that's saying something.
- Love how the thread was destroyed by the google and gore posting. just killed you. defense? google never said it was green. ruins the entire op and global warming hoax folks, doesn't it? so, ergo for you morons, since so-called deniers never said they were green, they can't be attacked. boom, like 'dat. so, stfu. the naysayers here aren't believers so they cannot be required to believe either. damn, logic...it's a bitch, ain't it?
[quote]Tree stumps are not human settlements. Finding artifacts in a glacier is not the same as finding an human settlement.
The links show that they have found bone tools, fire pits and human bones as the glacier retreated.
Are you really that brainwashed?
- R417, logic is not your strong suit.
- [quote][R417], logic is not your strong suit.
Oh come on now. He's making a perfectly cogent argument.
Al Gore flies on jet planes, Google isn't green, and global warming deniers never said they were green, so the whole thing is a hoax.
BOOM! Logic, yo.
- The Pew Poll does not reflect the public buying into climate change denialism. It just means everything else has gone to hell so it is relatively less important in the hierarchy of issues. If you don't know how you're going to eat next year, the weather ten years from now is not a giant concern.
- The people that deny that people were living in areas currently covered by glaciers are the worst of the anti-science imbeciles.
They embrace AGW bullshit, but deny anything that proves them wrong.
- Snow=storms=moving masses of (relatively) warm air
- R422 doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Are you denying that people used to live in parts of Greenland that were covered in ice?
- Antarctica used to be a warm area, that doesn't have any bearing on this case.
The ruins of major human civilizations are underwater right now because during glacial ages the sea levels were much lower.
- They lie. It's standard practice in the environmental community.
“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” -Paul Watson, Greenpeace
“I believe it is appropriate to have an ‘over-representation’ of.. how dangerous it is.” -Al Gore
“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.” -Sir John Houghton, first IPCC chairman
“We have to offer up scary scenarios… each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective [lying] and being honest [ineffective].” -Stephen Schneider, lead IPCC author, 1989
“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.” -Daniel Botkin, ex Chair of Environmental Studies, UCSB
“We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing.” -Senator Tim Wirth, 1993
“Everything we have developed over the last 100 years should be destroyed.” -Pentti Linkola, Finnish Ecologist
- 105-year-old Cold record shattered in Minnesota
- R-427 You know that is caused by global warming don't you?
- For the Libertarian Idiot Hydrocarbon Fetishist Troll:
[quote]Don't believe every quote you read on the internet. -- Abraham Lincoln
- World Record Temps.
Hottest: 134° Death Valley in 1913
Coldest: -135.8° Antarctica in 2010
If these dates were reversed the warmists would be screaming bloody murder.
- What did Shanghai look like in 1913, r430?
We don't know what it looks like today because it is concealed by air pollution.
- Could someone please turn up the Global Warming!
- R430 You are confusing weather with climate.
- Not confusing anything, r433.
Warmists will jump on a single storm as "proof" of global warming and crow about it from the rooftops.
- R432 Consider it done
R434 No need to single out a single storm. The proof is found elsewhere.
- He's confusing ExxonMobil press releases with reality, more like it.
- Yes we know, r435. It's what the entire global warming house of cards is standing on.
The temperature record.... OF THE ENTIRE EARTH.
70% of the earth's surface is ocean. Those temps are taken on only 30%.
4 data sets. All of them compromised. The amount of "corrections" and "extrapolations" applied to different stations would make your jaw drop.
The climategate scientists have been very busy bending that data to their pre-determined conclusions.
Exactly ONE station measuring the entire arctic region?
Weather stations in asphalt parking lots?
Funny when you examine a long running weather station on a remote island they never show any pearl clutching global warming.
Why is that?
- Keep fucking that chicken, Libertarian Idiot Troll.
- R437 Seeing how you have already been caught telling lies, can you explain why you expect us to believe anything you post?
- You're right, r439. I lied.
The Ocean is actually 71% of the Earth's Surface.
- Again R440, it needs to be asked. Why should we believe you when you have already been caught telling lies?
- R403, aka the idiot libertarian denialist troll, confuses ignorant US Population opinion, with the informed scientific opinion that has 97% of them convinced that not only is climate change/warming real, but significantly influenced by human behavior.
But of course, our ignorant libertarian troll is arrogant enough to believe he knows more about science than 97% of all scientists.
- [quote]Exactly ONE station measuring the entire arctic region?
- Get the facts, Jack
- R442 I dont know if I would say the troll is ignorant, but they most certainly are dishonest. I can deal with ignorant people because most of them cant help it. But liars are a totally different matter.
- R445 Using your logic, you must despise President Obama.
- [quote][R442] I dont know if I would say the troll is ignorant, but they most certainly are dishonest. I can deal with ignorant people because most of them cant help it. But liars are a totally different matter.
Please keep in mind that this is a Libertarian we're talking about, so most of his opinions are coming to us from the Andromeda galaxy.
- ok 446 finally outed himself...he's a Koch plant.
- [quote]so most of his opinions are coming to us from the Andromeda galaxy.
I think they are actually coming from a black hole.
And by black hole I mean their ass.
- r443. Your next task is to find out how far back the data go for all those cute little high arctic weather stations.
You'll find a lot of data going back to the prehistoric years of 2003, 2001, and 1999. (All prime government grant funded Global Warming Hysteria years.)
Now try to find an old one. As in 1. That has any sort of long range data from it going back say 50 - 100 years.
Go on. You can do it.
And you'll notice that your little graph showing all this global warming in the 20th century was "extrapolated" out of scientists asses because they had no temperature readings to pull from.
- R450 For the third time, why do you expect us to believe anything from you when you have been caught telling so many lies? Why is it so hard for you to answer that question?
- Maybe he is bisexual.
- The point is, find a station. ANY station.
Check the temp record. Find the Global Warming.
The climategate scientists couldn't either. That's why they EXCLUDED ALL OF THEM except the one that matched their conclusions.
Everything Global Warming is based on the temperature record which is a fraud.
Satellites couldn't find any warming either.
- R453 For the 4th time. Why should we believe you when you have been caught telling so many lies?
- The Arctic Sea Ice is growing very fast this year.
And it's not even winter yet.
- R449 Were you referring to our First Tranny, Michelle??
- And what about [bold]SNOW[/bold]??? Huh??? You ever wonder why the climate Nazis call it "global warming" when it's [bold]SNOWING[/bold] outside???
You will never convince these people with facts.
It could be snowing in July in Texas and they would still claim that mankind is in danger of global warming.
Look back at the moron at R417 that denied that archeologists are flocking to Greenland to examine the hundreds of human settlements that have been exposed by the receding glaciers. They know that the glaciers will beginning to advance again one day "soon", and they want to get as much anthropological info as possible.
If these glaciers were NOT there 10k years ago, then the world was much warmer, and unless they are going blame the domestication of livestock and the fire pits, then it is obvious the earth used to be much warmer than today.
- Warmists inevitably resort to ad hominen sneering since reality is not conforming with their "settled science" predictions.
The whole "oh my god, we're all going to die unless we control everyone's behavior" was overreaching from the get-go.
- And denialists consistently assert things that aren't even remotely true, using carefully cherry-picked factoids and half-truths to support their deceptions, without any real care about reality. They have their agenda, and anything that doesn't conform to their agenda is ignored or dismissed. They always seem to think they're better at climate science than actual climate scientists, and that they alone see the 'facts' that apparently all the rest of science is somehow blind to. Such arrogance.
- Let's just hope their "new math" is better than their "old math"
Remember when we were all going to die from Global Cooling?
BTW note the presumption both then and now that we are at THE EXACT PERFECT TEMPERATURE and any warming or cooling = horrible death and destruction.
- This Libertarian fuckwit really isn't going to let this horseshit go, is he?
- [quote]Remember when we were all going to die from Global Cooling?
The notion that this was EVER a thing, EVER a "scientific consensus", is a flat out lie, that has been debunked countless times.
Yet Denialists continue to bring up this old chestnut over and over as if it proves their case (it doesn't, even if it were true... being wrong in the past doesn't mean being wrong in the present, so it's a logical fallacy no matter how you measure it, and no matter what facts you start with).
[quote]BTW note the presumption both then and now that we are at THE EXACT PERFECT TEMPERATURE and any warming or cooling = horrible death and destruction.
Also an untrue assertion.
- When you just pull shit out of your ass to support your fervent beliefs, as the libertarian-troll/anti-science moron does, it's easy to understand how you believe in crap.
- Give it up, R464. When our supercomputers can predict what our weather will be day-by-day next week with accuracy I might lend some credence to the prognostications for next month. Next year, a decade from now, or a hundred years hence, hah!
You and all the "experts" are talking out of your asses.
- Yes, yes, R466... all the scientists and experts are morons, and you alone and all your uneducated denialist friends, know everything!
- [quote]When our supercomputers can predict what our weather
And that's where everything you have to say gets disregarded. We are talking about climate, not weather. Two totally different things.
- R467, you can have a dozen Phd's and still not be able to predict the future of an inherently unstable system.
Your faith in "expertise" is charming, however.
- R469, if you had a greater understanding of what you were critiquing, your critique might carry a bit more weight. But you don't, and your critique thus carries no weight at all.
Again, you can't seem to grasp the difference between weather and climate, let alone exactly what is being predicted and why, or the accuracy of said predictions...
- ANTARCTICA: RECORD COLD AND GROWING ICE CHILLS GLOBAL WARMING THEORIES
The big news from Antarctica these days is the record low temperature of -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit, which is the coldest temperature ever recorded on the planet. What seems to be going unreported, is that on top of the record cold in Antarctica, the southern ice sheet is growing at a pace faster than Global Warming theories can account for.
- R470, "climate" is "weather" times months and years.
To say they are disconnected is ridiculous.
- Climate is not Weather.... except for every heatwave or storm which warmists immediately point to as PROOF of Global Warming.
You can't have it both ways.
- R471 You have already been branded a liar. Give it up. No one believes anything you have to say.
And the GWPF? O sure, they should be trusted...NOT
[quote]The foundation has rejected freedom of information (FoI) requests to disclose its source of funding on at least four different occasions.
What could they be hiding?
- [quote]"climate" is "weather" times months and years.
No, not really. That's a very, very naïve understanding.
[quote]ANTARCTICA: RECORD COLD AND GROWING ICE CHILLS GLOBAL WARMING THEORIES
No, it doesn't. If you actually talk to actual scientists, instead of people trying to cherry-pick out-of-context factoids in order to reinforce their chosen belief (i.e. the OPPOSITE of actual real science... basically similar to Creationism), they explain how climate change dove-tails with this just fine.
In short, it's not a counter-example at all. It doesn't disprove anything.
But you'd have to read more deeply and understand more details than you're obviously willing to do, to understand how and why.
- Pic of r474 when he spots a "denier"
- Why so much glacier retreat in the 1800's?
- Welcome to the new, greener arctic:
- Right, R475, "climate" and "weather" are two totally different things, just like dollars and cents.
- The Libertarian Fuckwit Troll should stick to shilling Gold and explaining to the great unwashed masses why fummint is evil.
- OMG the libertarian idiot almost got something right! Here, LIT! Have a cookie!
[quote]Climate is a measure of the average pattern of variation in temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, wind, precipitation, atmospheric particle count and other meteorological variables in a given region over long periods of time. Climate is different than weather, in that weather only describes the short-term conditions of these variables in a given region.
- For r478 who is obviously clutching his pearls.
1) That "green" area was already "ice-free" in SUMMER for as long a humans have been studying it. The plants were already there.
2) Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere = Plant Food. And plant growth (ie. Human and animal FOOD) is increasing all over the planet.
Remember, CO2 is just .035% of the atmosphere but plants (and everything else) will die without it.
The arctic circle has the shortest growing season on the planet, the plants there are taking advantage of anything they can find.
Oxygen is more plentiful at the top of Everest than CO2 is at sea level.
- We are approaching another Little Ice Age and entire cities like Chicago will become ghost towns in twenty years.
There will be no more home games for the Green Bay Packers.
No one will be skiing for recreation anymore.
And mink stole burkas will be all the rage amongst the muslims.
- Keep learning, R481.
Weather determines climate.
- [quote]Weather determines climate.
You're still 150% full of shit, fool.
- R485, I don't know why I condescend to bother, but what is "climate" aside from weather?
I can't even imagine the headspace you are posting from.
- "Climate" and "Weather" are human inventions in an attempt to categorize everything.
Meanwhile, Mother Nature just does whatever the fuck she wants.
- Four alternative theories to AGW:
Cloud formation and albedo -- changes in the formation and albedo of clouds create negative feedbacks that cancel out all or nearly all of the warming effect of higher levels of CO2.
Ocean currents -- global temperature variations over the past century-and-a- half and particularly the past 30 years were due to the slow-down of the ocean’s Thermohaline Circulation (THC).
Planetary motion -- natural gravitational and magnetic oscillations of the solar system induced by the planet’s movement through space drive climate change.
Solar variability -- changes in the brightness of the sun cause changes in cloud formation, ocean currents, and wind that cause climate to change.
- [quote]Right, [R475], "climate" and "weather" are two totally different things, just like dollars and cents.
No, more like "dollars" and "Economic Environment".
I said your statement was naïve. And it was. Climate is the context in which weather happens, at best. Snow does not disprove a warming climate.
- R488 thinks climate scientists the world over are so stupid they've never considered those things or factored them in, or tested them as causes.
All the data still points to AGW, like it or not.
- "Climate is the context in which weather happens"
You are a seriously deluded person.
- R491, no, I just have a deeper understand than your shallow, ignorant, oxygen-starved little brain can grasp.
- Globull warming is a myth created by astroturfers to siphon progressives away from real issues like Palestine and income inequality. Don't believe the hype.
- R491, a "deeper understanding" would know that the earth has gone through many, many climate shifts throughout its existence, none of which had fuck-all to do with puny humans.
- [quote]Globull warming is a myth created by astroturfers to siphon progressives away from real issues like Palestine and income inequality. Don't believe the hype.
That's one of the biggest loads of bullshit I've ever read.
- [quote]R491, a "deeper understanding" would know that the earth has gone through many, many climate shifts throughout its existence, none of which had fuck-all to do with puny humans.
Well no shit, Sherlock.
But none of that changes the fact that this change is accelerating FAR faster than "natural" change, and the reason is the gigatons of CO2 and Methane man's activities humans are pumping into the atmosphere over incredibly short time-scales (on a geological scale).
Of course, if you were informed, you'd know this. But you aren't. You're not even half-informed. All you can do is distract and parrot a few bullet points you've been given by those who profit from the status quo.
- Oh, please do inform me, you condescending fuckwit.
- How does one inform an impenetrably dense brain such as yours, R497? You're clearly only interested in things that reinforce your already-tightly-held dogma. You dismiss or ignore anything that contradicts your little fantasy. Most of the things you've posted were already thoroughly debunked in previous posts here on this very thread.
You can't educate willful ignorance.
- R496 any competent scientist knows there aren't enough historical data points to validate the claim that current fluctuations aren't any faster or slower than past ones.
Get back to us in one thousand years or so.
(btw there was a 'little ice age' as recently as 1812)
- R499 is the perfect example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Yes, yes, we know about the little ice-age. Do you know the cause of it? Do you somehow think that those years somehow disprove AGW?
- You certainly are snug in your little blanket, R498.
- Did not realize there were so many vetted climatologists on DL. And so sure of themselves. Keep trying to predict what will happen. We will all be wrong.
- R500 I'm taking my advanced degree and leaving - YOU are one of the many willfully ignorant suckers that's getting conned into believing warming is caused by humans.
Warming is a natural trend. It happens on other planets, too - planets where there aren't any humans. The solar system is not human-friendly. Just accept that and kiss your ass goodbye.
- the thing I dislike MOST about the Dl right now is the climate driers dragging this stupid thread out every night like some old blanket
- R504: they must have shitloads of money invested in Arctic real estate. Or maybe ExxonMobil is pouring money into libertarian think tanks.
- Rolling my eyes at R503
- I love it.
Despite ample evidence that the "Anthropogenic Global Warming" bullshit has been thoroughly discredited- you know, the lack of any warming since 1998, the fact that it was warmer 900 years ago, the leaked emails from top IPCC "climatologists" conspiring to "destroy" any scientist that dared question the AGW hypothesis- there are one or two trolls who still cling to their beliefs with religious fervor...I love it.
The climate is changing. Most likely due to solar variance. It might get a little hotter, and might get a LOT COLDER. I prefer a warmer planet to an icebox.
My favorite fact- the eruption of Eyjafjallajökull in Iceland back in 2010 put more SO2, CO2 and particulates into the atmosphere than all human activity since 1900!
Global warming might be real, but it's the volcanoes, not the Volkswagens!
- I'm wagering not a single denialist has read the linked article in the OP, let alone the other evidence that debunks their other talking points throughout this thread.
[quote]Despite ample evidence that the "Anthropogenic Global Warming" bullshit has been thoroughly discredited
There is no such evidence, and it hasn't been thoroughly discredited. If there was such evidence and if there had been such a discrediting, 97% of scientists wouldn't be in agreement that warming is happening and Humans are at least partially responsible.
[quote]you know, the lack of any warming since 1998
This lie has been repeated several times, and debunked several times in this thread. This isn't the case. Assert a lie as a foundation of your theory, and your theory necessarily falls apart.
[quote]the fact that it was warmer 900 years ago
Which doesn't discredit AGW in any way... the level of ignorance required to make that "connection" is scary. Seriously.
[quote]the leaked emails from top IPCC "climatologists" conspiring to "destroy" any scientist that dared question the AGW hypothesis
That sensationalized story was completely misrepresented, and your conclusion has been thoroughly debunked.
[quote]there are one or two trolls who still cling to their beliefs with religious fervor...I love it.
The only denialists still clinging to their beliefs with religious fervor are you denialists. You're projecting again. Pathological projection is a habit of conservatives, and a symptom of sociopathic behavior.
Perhaps you should read the entire linked article in the OP before commenting further. And then perhaps those specific links that debunk your parroted/regurgitated talking points since then.
- [quote]But none of that changes the fact that this change is accelerating FAR faster than "natural" change, and the reason is the gigatons of CO2 and Methane man's activities humans are pumping into the atmosphere over incredibly short time-scales (on a geological scale).
Sources of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide:
Biosphere: 55.28% Plant and Animal respiration and decay, volcanos
Oceans: 41.46% Ocean outgassing
Burning of Fossil Fuels: 3.27%
- Cairo snow: Egyptian capital sees snowfall for the first time in 112 YEARS
- Meanwhile, back in the year 2000...
Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past
According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".
"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.
- We've already past the tipping point.
I'm just sorry the animals die with us. And yes humans are responsible.
- Global Warming is a complete and total joke. It's amazing to watch all of the Henny Pennys on this site. Cluck, cluck, cluck!
I think that I'm going to go out and buy an aerosol can and spray it just for fun...
- Denialists are such a complete and total joke. It's amazing to watch them braying their arrogant ignorance around on this site.
How do they breathe with their heads shoved so far up their asses?
- That's it, r514 has convinced me. Man-Made Global Warming MUST be happening.
- [quote]I think that I'm going to go out and buy an aerosol can and spray it just for fun...
You do realize that fluorocarbon gases used in aerosols was banned almost 30 years ago? Of course not. That's because you're retarded.
- That was because of the Ozone Hole scare r516.
Before that it was Acid Rain.
It's always a crisis, and we're all going to die.
Because if it's NOT a looming disaster, nobody pays any attention, or sends any money.
Yes, we all know how that works.
- R517 Aside from from demonstrating you're an ass who doesn't know what you're talking about and you're helplessly stuck in the past, what exactly is your point?
- That chicken's going to bleed out if you keep doing that to him without lubrication, R509/10/11/15/17/etc etc etc...
- What R518 said.
- R517 Don't forget how the earth was going to run out of oil in the 1970s! It was a scientific FACT!
- Dealing with the environment should be our top priority. Without a livable planet that can sustain us, nothing else really matters. There is no planet B.
- [bold]Satellite data shows that sea levels have not been rising faster in last 20 years[/bold]
All their predictions are failing. As in ALL OF THEM!
What's a warmest to do?
- Funny how all your information sources come exclusively from the wingnut echo chamber, R523. It's almost like you've got an agenda or something.
- Please feel free to correct any information that is wrong, r524.
Shooting the messenger is not a recognized method of scientific inquiry.
- Sun's Current Solar Activity Cycle Is Weakest in a Century
and we all know what happened the last time...
- UW-Milwaukee Professor Predicts 50 Years of Global Cooling
- Funny how all those "professors" denying global climate change teach economics, mathematics, etc.
Well, my MFA in theatre gives me the authority to say the world's getting hotter. So there.
- Thanks, R525, but I have no interest in addressing your raw sewage flume of bullshit point by point. No reason to.
- Actually, r528, the warmists' public enemy #1 is mathematician Steve McIntyre who actually CHECKS THEIR MATH
And he finds and publishes errors you can drive a truck through.
They HATE him.
Don't they want their math and conclusions to be correct?
- [bold]Study: Earth was warmer in Roman, Medieval times[/bold]
If you think the Earth is hot now, try wearing plate armor in the Middle Ages.
A Swedish study found that the planet was warmer in ancient Roman times and the Middle Ages than today, challenging the mainstream idea that man-made greenhouse gas emissions are the main drivers of global warming.
- [quote]Actually, [R528], the warmists' public enemy #1 is mathematician Steve McIntyre who actually CHECKS THEIR MATH
Well golly, who wouldn't want that?
[quote]Stephen McIntyre (born c. 1947) is a Canadian mathematician, [bold]former minerals prospector, and semi-retired mining consultant [/bold]who is best known as the founder and editor of Climate Audit, a blog devoted to the analysis and discussion of climate data. He is most prominent as a critic of the temperature record of the past 1000 years and the data quality of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. He is known in particular for his statistical critique, [bold]with economist Ross McKitrick, [/bold]of the hockey stick graph which shows that the increase in late 20th century global temperatures is unprecedented in the past 1,000 years.
An economist and former mining consultant. Well golly, no bias coming from those two. Nothing but pure, unmanipulated facts, yesiree!!!
Math is a creation of penised persons designed to denigrate and degrade Mother Earth. All of their so-called "facts" about global changes in weather do not change the fact that we are being hateraped and imprisoned by their heterosexist system of math and logic.
- The history of the Climate Change Debate, in Comic form:
- Q: What observable data would disprove THE THEORY of man-made global warming?
Which makes the entire theory a complete farce.
- This can't be repeated enough:
- R535, empty assertions can be dismissed just as easily as they can be made. Your asserting is as empty as they come.
No amount of data or differing hypotheses will convince the True Believers.
They are convinced that human activity causes climate change. It's sad. And tragic.
- No high school kid has never experienced global warming in their lifetime.
Every elementary school kid has only experienced slight global cooling in their lifetime.
Without warming, the warmists switch over to global 'weirding'
- Again, you quote the Daily Mail, which is sorta like quoting FOX News. It ruins your credibility.
Meanwhile: "NASA Reports Warmest November On Record, Confirming Warming Trend"
Hey, know what November was the 2nd warmest on record? LAST YEAR'S.
- So which one of the warming alarmists on this thread are going to give up their computers? Their air conditioning? Trade in their car for a bike? etc.... etc.... etc....
You know just like Al Gore did.
- Climate alarmists' search for proof going cold
- R541 creates a false dichotomy. Like all deniers, they deal in logical fallacies.
- Still waiting for a response from warmists about the melting 40 miles of glacier in the 1800s.
If anything, the melting has slowed down since then.
- So R543 you won't be giving up your air conditioning this Summer or installing windmills in your backyard?
- Once again R544 needs to use lies to try to make a point. Steven Goddard is not even a real person, he uses a fake name because he is too chicken shit to really stand by what he writes. He has a degree in geology and electrical engineering, meaning he is totally unqualified to write about climate.
R544 it has to be stated for like the one-hundredth time: when one is caught telling lies the way you have, nothing you can say will ever have any merit.
- Thank fucking god this thread will die soon. The Libertarian fuckwits will of course deny the "contested theory" that threads close after 600 posts.
- You poor exasperated thing, R547. Having people question your dogma! Why, I never!
- It should be clear by this point that sarcasm isn't the Libertarian Idiot's strong suit.
- Just say NO to foreign oil. I am going to start burning whale blubber again- its organic!
- It should be clear by now that R549 has a hockey stick up his butt.