Article from Salon today.
The most interesting statement in the article is this one: "If there is fire to be found in this great cloud of gay smoke, it would be remarkable. The guy’s been A-list famous since 1983, and there has been no public evidence at all, none, to support the rumors."
I've been saying this for years on the DL, to much disdain from fellow DLers. In my view, it is just not plausible that a mega-watt star like TC could be so famous for so long, engage in gay-sex seeking activities, and yet not a shred of evidence can confirm it (or even hint at it).
Moreover, the rumor that he is gay seems to exist in a vacuum. It comes out of thin air from people who have just decided he must be gay (and that it's just so obvious), rather than from specific instances of TC being caught or observed in gay-sex seeking behaviors.
TC is weird enough on his own from what we are able to observe publicly. Why we need to invent a closet for him to live in is beyond me.
That's a tremendously offensive article, obviously written by one of those "any kind of visibility is good" eldergays.
What makes the author think the gay community would accept Tom Cruise with open arms? This is a man who has reinforced gay shame in Hollywood and popular culture for over two decades. And this is a man who has devoted his fame and his resources to propogate a violent, homophobic cult which has likely ruined the lives of a number of gay men and women. And on a personal level, this is a man who has psychologically terrorized a young woman to the extent that there's a general consensus that she had to "escape" from him. Tom Cruise isn't Cary Grant or Richard Burton. He's Roy Cohn.
I agree with everything you said OP.
If only Steven Speilberg could rant TC out in the open....
We don't want him.
I know this isn't a popular opinion around here, but I don't think he is gay.
I think he is one of those rare people who is just completely sexless.
He's a beautiful man to look at, but I just can't see him actually fucking anyone. He has no sex appeal in movies or in stills.
Maybe something happened to him as a child and he totally mentally turned off any desire he may have possessed.
It's like he is some kind of sexual sociopath.
As long as cretins such as R1 use the term "eldergay" as an all-purpose put-down amid the vacuum of insight and leadership among gays under 35, Tom Cruise may as well stay in the closet. Who would want to be associated with an ass like R1? Even a rabid, nutwad psycho egomaniac movie $cio has some dignity to retain.
I'm in agreement with OP and R1. Tom Cruise is straight. And if he is gay, I would not want him on my team. If he is truly gay, he has done nothing for the gay community other than perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful.
"this is a man who has psychologically terrorized a young woman to the extent that there's a general consensus that she had to "escape" from him."
Sure he is a nut and Scientology is nuttier and ever evil. But she married his as did the first two as well. Whatever their reasons, they are not fools- marrying the biggest movie star in the world when you are not, well- you get the picture.
Whose consensus is that she had to "escape"? Datalounge? Naw- she's merely divorcing him and getting ready perhaps for a knock down drag out custody fight- he has resources for days, but then he has to be careful about bad press too. Mother's usually get custody with visitation rights unless you can prove she's a maniac.
I think Tom thinks that $cientology "cured" him or "cleared" him or whatever-ed him of his gayness. I think he is severely repressed.
OP/Salon.com is being obtuse on purpose - and conveniently ignores that TC acts as if he were in the closet. And I'm not even saying he is gay (I do believe he is asexual, plus terrified of being perceived as gay).
He goes to great lengths to arrange fake marriages for himself - as a closeted man would do.
He goes to great lenghts to force his fake marriages down our throat - as a deluded closeted man would do.
He went out of his way to mock gays, in the past (cf. the interview with Bronson Pinchot) - as a closeted, self-loathing man would do.
He joined a cult which promises to 'cure' homosexuals.
Anyone would be forgiven for thinking TC was gay.
Gaydar and "straight-dar" don't work on him. He's a sexual enigma.
r8 is as myopic as the day is long.
The 'consensus' that she had to 'escape' is formed OUTSIDE datalounge, if you care to read any of the 1,000,000 articles of the last few days, in any media outlet.
Even Rupert Murdoch has chimed in.
And KH is holding all the cards in this. TC is not even the father of that child.
r7, Tom Cruise is not straight. He is asexual.
Get with the program.
I agree completely with R5: Cruise was perhaps sexually abused as a child or teen and he's now asexual.
Tom Cruise definitely has had sex with men, but not necessarily relationships.
I don't buy asexual. If he was asexual it would have been easy enough to find some other asexual woman to be his beard for life.
Whatever Tom's sexuality is, it's something that has provided him with so much shame that it's turn a man who should be empowered by his success into a slave to a totalitarian cult. Possibly it could be homosexuality, but it might also be something terribly, terribly darker.
I think he's into children or animals.
Oh you Marys are so predictable. The second one of the brethren is tainted you want to pretend he isnt ours.
Theres actually FAR more evidence of Tom Cruise being gay than there is of George Clooney or Jakey G. For one, Tom has actually had people openly confess to affairs even though they later retract possibly over a pay off or Scientology intimidation. I'm talking allegations made without the cover anonymity.
Theres the barely veiled statements made by ex-wife Mimi Rogers. Then the very unintentional homoeroticism he brings to his films *cough Top Gun. The very specific 30 year old rumor that his daliances always included a non-disclosure contract. We even know he has a kink for wrestling!
Finally that wierd emotional bond he has with Miscavige and can never seem to form with women.
He probably thinks of himself as an ex-gay. I bet hes spent a fortune of deprogramming or curing or whatever. And he is almost certainly now completely celebate but he IS STILL GAY. GAY. GAY.
A crazy sexual opportunist who will fuck anything as long as it benefits him.
Please, Tom, stay in the closet - we don't want you.
I have posted this on every recent TC thread.
I do not believe he is gay...or straight. I am on the asexual train. The man has no sex appeal whatsoever.
Just to piss off a few more, I also think this applies to Oprah. I don't believe she's gay either.
R8 (Charlie): You need to acquaint yourself with Scientology.
Start with the Paul Haggis New Yorker piece, read the Washington Post series, the 15 years of investigative articles in Village Voice then watch the BBC panorama documentary or the AC360 pieces on Youtube.
If you do all that and still think that the correct terminology for Katies actions isnt ESCAPE then you are without a doubt either an OCA plant or a complete moron.
"I don't buy asexual. If he was asexual it would have been easy enough to find some other asexual woman to be his beard for life."
Totally agree with this.
I don't know if Tom's problem is sexual -- most likely he finds it easy to marry because of weatlth and fame, but hard to stay married because of weirdo religion.
Also, there's something really weird with the sister Cass - the one that lives with him along with her three children. An odd housefold configuratin for such a wealthy man.
"Then the very unintentional homoeroticism he brings to his films *cough Top Gun. "
Tom is not responsible for that. The direction by Tony Scott, the editing, script and dialogue and producers' decisions are the ones who created the homoeroticism in his films such as Top Gun. It's not like Tom showed up one day for TG and said "I want a scene where I'm shirtless and I play volleyball with other shirtless men." It was written in the script first and Tom complied.
When people are trying to be clever by pointing this out it makes them look more stupid than anything else.
[quote]Theres actually FAR more evidence of Tom Cruise being gay than there is of George Clooney or Jakey G. For one, Tom has actually had people openly confess to affairs even though they later retract possibly over a pay off or Scientology intimidation. I'm talking allegations made without the cover anonymity.
Hear hear, R19!
Should Tom Cruise come out? No.
Should Tom Cruise go away forever?
We should be so lucky.
Tammy is not asexual, dingbats. It's called "hire a fuck" and "sign here". He also likes to "break-in" new talent like Jeremy.
Yeah, I never thought he was gay. I think he's an alien (the outer-space kind) who is desperately tying to appear human, and failing miserably.
The childhood pictures of Tom Cruise dressed up as Dorothy Gale for Halloween tell us all we need to know.
Richer than God, fit as a butcher's dog and surgically enhanced, I doubt Cruise is celibate. At a guess personal assistants, personal trainers and other hand-picked entourage members meet his needs.
Extensive confidentiality contracts and $cieno monitoring render it invisible. (Probably few of the help's fathers are lawyers.) Hard to imagine I know, but it's possible his people actually find the 'work' bearable. It would differ from Travolta's approach.
Tom Cruise is not gay. Let it go already
I can't stand Cruise - bland, dull and yet creeps me out - & I can't really explain why. If he's in a film then that's a dealbreaker for me - will avoid it like the plague.
Don't know the guy - and have no idea whether he's straight, bi, gay or into exotica - and don't much care - tho the threads about him and his dysfunctional scieno life on DL are always a bit of a giggle...
Having said that, a friend who is a cameraman (gay) in TV here in Oz has a hot male (straight) cameraman bestfriend who swears Cruise hit on him while on a visit here years ago...who knows if it's true? The guy is straight and wasn't interested & can't think why he's likely to make something like that up unless it happened. Whatever.
BUT I hafta say that this article in The Guardian today did surprise and disturb me - I mean - seriously? He's still the highest paid performer?
If Tom were to come out, it'd mean that he'd completely rejected Scientology and all its beliefs, and achieved the kind of self-awareness he's been running from his entire life. It'd mean he'd finally become a normal human being.
Which is why it will NEVER happen! He'll die first, that is to say he'll die rather than part with the Scientology Demigod persona he's created for himself.
r30 = Sea Org drone.
Hi, Sea Org drone!
Your cult is going down in flames!
The article also ignores the Kyle Bradford episode. Interesting that Bradford virtually disappeared and stopped making films.
Weren't there at least two guys who actually outed him? I mean Liberaci won his court case in London when someone implied he was gay but anyone with a brain knew he was gay.
I never did think Tom was gay but why else would he buy a bride? Does that make sense?
The only other star that sometimes seems to be as weird as Tom Cruise is Keanu Reeves. I always wondered if he was simply in the closet or maybe he prefers something that isn't legal, like underaged girls. When it's hard to identify a persons sexuality, you start to imagine all kinds of things.
Tom should date Oprah next. I agree, Tom is asexual.
Tom Cruise's main issues are his self loathing for being gay (and having homosexual urges) and being insecure about himself and his shortcomings (like the learning disability he had when he was young). The way he deals with his personal issues (Scientology, control freak, obviously fake public image,) makes him look crazy to the public eye.
Keanu doesn't seem to be as nefarious as Tom.
I think he might be even more nefarious and he learned from the best.
[r41] tell me more
r29 has it down pat.
Whether he is or isn't, Keanu does not come across as a freakshow like Tom does. Keanu just seems either depressed or high.
charlie is great in the political threads, but here, as is the case with public sex threads, he is out of his depth.
No way is Keanu as creepy as Tom! Okay, I've been following the Hollywood rumor mill for a long time, and for a long time I've been hearing that Tom is creepy, wierd, and not attracted to women.
In the same time period, I've only heard that Keanu is a sweet guy and very much liked in Hollywood. Of course he's a mess, in ways that no two rumors agree upon, but he's the kind of mess that people want to protect. So can we not let a Keanu thread hijack happen? Thanks.
This is just my opinion, but I think that Tom Cruise was born a gay man.
Scientology does not believe that healthy human beings can or should have same-sex attractions. So the "Church" has probably worked with Cruise to "help" him with his homosexuality. And because the guy is so unbelievably disciplined and focused, he's managed to convince himself that he's now a straight man because he is (probably) "Clear".
And it's that discipline and focus that has helped Cruise maintain the straight illusion, and why he's never been caught in any compromising situations. Cruise probably does have completely heterosexual relationships with women. The Scientology approach to homosexuality is no different from the fundie gay conversion therapy.
Anyway, Cruise is the complete opposite of his fellow Scientologist, John Travolta, a man who seems to be completely undisciplined, and a result, Travolta's always getting caught chasing guys.
Given that there were lots of gay rumors before Cruise became a "superstar" during his Risky Business/TAPS days, I think it's safe to say where there's smoke, there's fire. He may be asexual now believing Scientology has cured him but, in his youth, there was more than one cock that passed between those lips.
"The Scientology approach to homosexuality is no different from the fundie gay conversion therapy."
In that it is a complete and utter failure. So Tom Cruise is asexual (like a sea sponge) or has WILLED HIMSELF into heterosexuality. Like no one ever in the history of existence has been able to do. Because he has those god like powers that Scientology gave him.
Wow. Pathetic arguments.
Can someone explain the Zach Efron/private 'motorcycle lesson'thing? Where were Katie nd Suri during all this?
And in my opinion,Cruise is in the wrong business to be 'asexual'.I have not heard of a single actor who has reach the status that Cruise has without having a lenghtly list of sexual conquests,be they private or public.
What a juicy, tell all book this is going to be,but most of us probably won't be around when it's told...
I saw that story about Zac and Tom's motorcycle session without having seen Zac's face. When I finally did see it, with his exquisitely plucked brows, it all came together.
Exactly. We are all going to be dead by the time any of this comes out...either dead or don't care.
There are people in Hollywood who know about Keanu, none of them talk. I think the last people who talked, lost their jobs.
[r53] who were they and how did Keanu get them fired?
Nobody crosses Keanu and gets away with it.
Agree with R48-
He had real sex appeal in Risky Business. And do not tell me he was just following the script. He had a minor part in Taps, but had no problem showing his bare ass (not for the last time--an understatement).
"I have not heard of a single actor who has reach the status that Cruise has without having a lenghtly list of sexual conquests,be they private or public."
While not an actress per se, I doubt his good friend Oprah has had a long list of sexual conquests.
I think R48 is right on target. I doubt he's had a lot of sex in the last twenty years. He's too into Scientology and no doubt has conflicting issues with it to truly let his guard down. There's nowhere near the laundry list of men that Travolta has produced over the years.
Finding an asexual partner for Tom would have been a huge whistleblower. He needed to find a "hot" and "Current" woman to keep up the delusion. And the walls didn't truly start coming down until that bizzare spring/summer of 2005 when his own behavior got the best of him.
I don't think he's gay, either - but i DO think he played on the casting couch when he was young. He was very ambitious and would have done anything to get ahead. And I think that's where the gay rumors drift from, and I think that's why he's so touchy about it.
Keanu has friends. His friends would have got them fired. If you have powerful friends, you don't have to lift a finger.
Tommy is SO heterosexual. SLAP I mean asexual! SLAP! I mean heterosexual SLAP!!
Sister! SLAP! Daughter! SLAP!
I agree with r58.
Cruise is like the villain in a James Ellroy novel. There must be something so incredibly fucked up about his sexuality, it has led him to be a raving lunatic obsessed with giving the appearance of being in a relationship with almost archaic gender roles.
He certainly was a sexual opportunist when he let Franco Zeffirelli go down on him and swallow his cum before getting cast in Endless Love.
he definitely hooked himself out in the outsiders years....
R53, isn't it true that he's well liked? Whereas Cruise is not?
When Tammy was in Australia doing press many years ago he was taken for a sightseeing cruise on Sydney Harbour to allow the local press to get some photo's of him in front of some Sydney landmarks (the Bridge, Opera House etc.)
Cruise had brought along his large retinue of employees (and probably a Scientology goon or two) but it was his gym-toned, twinky P.A. who aroused the curiosity of the aussie media there. He looked A LOT like Tom and didn't seem to actually do much apart from stay VERY CLOSE to Tom and brazenly getting himself into all of the photo's with a haughty "I'm with him" attitude. Very much acting like the star's boyfriend rather than an employee.
At one point Tom whipped off his shirt to show off for the cameras and went for a quick swim off the boat. Quick as a flash "Mrs. Tom" did exactly the same (reinforcing the "we're together, get it?" message everyone was getting from the tiresome clone).
The local media present were quite totally bemused by the performance and were in no doubt as to what the "P.A."'s real duties might be as part of Team Cruise.
Anyway, we've got two camps here:
those who believe he is gay, and those who swear he's asexual.
Both sides have come up with some compelling arguments.
None of us will ever know the truth - unless he himself, or Katie/Nicole/Penelope/Mimi, speak about the topic.
There is nothing we can do.
What we CAN do is continue boycotting his movies, so this lunatic will finally GO AWAY FOREVER.
Believe me, I do boycott his films. I'm also boycotting Travolta films also.
Tom Cruise is homosexual.
You people seem to forget you can be homosexual and never have sex with men.
Putting all of the pieces together, this is how I see it. Younger Tommy was very much devoted to the idea of going into the priesthood, devoting his life to God. That was probably the first inklings of trying to escape his homosexuality.
I think he's probably familiar with the casting couch and the likes of a David Geffen early on who molded his career. There is no way a movie like Taps gets cast without someone getting their nipples pinched.
I think Tom has given up sex altogether and has become a "priest" of scientology and has chosen women who are OK with this. He doesn't have a trail like Travolta because he doesn't have sexual intercourse.
I do believe in the wrestling stories. Whereas there is no intercourse, there is grinding and rubbing of genitals.
So there, Tom Cruise is a homosexual who has given up sex altogether and beards with starlets.
r68, are you "retarted"?
What R68 said so eloquently.
I do find the article linked at Cele/Bitchy infinitely fascinating. The tale of wrestler "Big Red." is definitely worth the read. The Tom Cruise stuff is the best.
[quote]I then brought up the subject of his alleged encounter with Tom Cruise. That interested me more than the others because I knew that’s where the big bucks would come in. The tabs love anything that connects Cruise even remotely to the word gay because there is always a major reaction from him. He is one of the most homophobic actors in the world."
[quote]I urged him to continue. This particular encounter, he said, took place in London during the filming of Eyes Wide Shut, on location there.
[quote]RED: Marcello (club host) took me to a room outside this club to wait and I just sat there. Then two men came into the room. They told me it would be a very simple job and that they were going to pay me in cash, showing me an envelope with approximately five hundred UK pounds in cash.
[quote]PAUL: Then what?
[quote]RED: They took me with them in a car and we drove, I think to the Highgate area, to a house. Nothing spectacular. We went into the back of the house where Tom Cruise was sitting on a small sofa. A mat had been spread out on the floor. Cruise, dressed in what looked like a body suit, looked so cute. Either a black or very dark navy blue body suit for wrestling. He had on a little cap thingy, but the chin strap wasn’t attached.
[quote]Grinning and gloating at me, he said, “Strip down to your underwear and play with me for a little while.” That’s really the only conversation we had. We played. We wrestled. He was nice to me. I mean, he let me win, then he asked me if it was okay if he could rip off my briefs and told me he would buy me a new pair.
[quote]I remember looking very close into his eyes and (I could tell because I used to tint my eyebrows and lashes) – maybe not his brows, but for sure his lashes were tinted because they had been growing out and I could see kind of like a lighter color around the edges of his eyes and if you look closer, he is a very fair skinned man.
[quote]PAUL: You wrestled around with him for how long?
[quote]RED: About an hour and a half, maybe.
[quote]PAUL: And what was going on?
[quote]RED: I was in my underwear and he was touching my butt mostly and, his finger – through the underwear touched my anus and he was stroking my balls, just a little bit. It was quick. He whispered in my ear, “It’s okay. Just relax. Just relax.” At one time he actually picked me up and threw me down and said, “I think red heads are really hot, and I hear you’re called Big Red.” Then, once my underwear was off, he got into some serious stroking. He told me to jack off so he could watch. I did and after I came, he threw me a towel. I got dressed and then the two men drove me back to the club in London.
Tracking Big Red and his story online is like cracking the DeVinci Code. Some fascinating and sordid, twisted tales.
[quote]Regards to Baresssi hideos cruise claims - it is matter of commnicate w/ correct people. fond this1:
There are certain facts that can be established with uncanny corroborating evidence:
1) Red was in London in 1999. A passport check was done on him and there are countless photos of him at events around the UK recorded for that year.
2) Tom Cruise WAS INDEED living in Highgate, North London at the time and he was filming Eyes Wide Shut; Stanley Kubrick was contacted re: production scheduling and this has been confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt.
3) Cruise had a body guard named Mickey, he was definitely British much to Pelicano’s dismay when he confirmed this and it has since been confirmed time and again and he had hairy knuckles. Red described these knuckles in fantastic detail. Per the American Anthropological Association, knuckles are something one notices last about someone he or she normally meets. Red would have to have spent considerable time in Mickey’s presence. This has been recorded time and again by various reliable sources.
[quote]14) Fact: tape recordings from Pelicano’s office demonstrate a conversation where Pelican asks red to describe B. Pitt and red described in great detail a scar under Pitt’s left eye that the public never sees due to make-up. He also describes a cruise scar on a knee and reddish brows and lashes (these have been confirmed by reliable sources representing cruise and pitt).
15) Fact: Pelican has been in custody since 2002 and all his office material and records have been examined thoroughly!
16) Fact: red was a known art collector and was in possession of a painting by Picasso whose previous records according to Swiss insurers was Nicole Kidman. This is currently on loan to a museum in Moscow.
17) Fact red’s estate has paintings on loan to museums in Europe, Israel, Japan, Korea, Australia, Brazil and the United States.
Why does everyone CARE so much? Cruise is a mess. And has a big anteater nose, like Matt Lauer. WHY is everyone so fascinated by this munchkin? Gay OR straight, he has been NO friend to gays. This does make me think he is self-loathing and closeted. Otherwise, why not just embrace the gay "adoration" at least like Clooney does?
I don't know why,but I get the impression that Cruise is 'down with the swirl'behind closed doors...
His whole demeanor screams,"I love long,thick black/latino cock!"
Thanks for the post. $600 dollars for Brooks? What a fucking cheap skate. Asshole.
I guess what bothers me is he fucked over Nicole and now he's going to do his best to fuck over Katie. He's a shithead and I hate for him to get away with it. I know they are all rich and gorgeous but really, it's not fair.
This whole thing is going to blow wide open!
I love the fact that this male hooker is somehow in possession of a Picasso previously owned by Nicole Kidman. How does that happen.
Blow Wide Open! Stop dreaming. In the end everything will be done in the dark and Tom will come out smelling like a rose and Travolta? No one will remember he had a little problem before Tom and Katie.
[quote] This is BIG RED, real name Theodore Ragsdale
Theodore Ragsdale. Straight out of Tom Sawyer. You couldn't make it. This is why reality is way better than fiction, bitches.
And what is also intriguing is that 'Kyle Bradford', before he was silenced, described a very similar wrestling scenario. Do we have a fetish here? Apparently it was his wife or ex-wife who leaked the story to the journalist.
Thanks to the poster who detailed the shenanigans with the lookalike in Australia. I'd forgotten that corker.
Of course, all this has been in the background for years. The Salon story is totally disingenuous: merely a tease for clicks. If they were serious they could lift the lid tomorrow.
Ya know, as one of those eldergays I see vilified so often here, I have to say I no longer give a damn about whether TC is gay or not. There would be no Schadenfreude in him being outed for me, as I find him stupid, ridiculous, and loathsome, and I certainly wouldn't call it a win for "our team." Even if it took AC longer to come out than many think it should have (I am fine with his decision to do so whenever the hell he felt like it), at least it seems a positive move, as it has for NPH, Ricky, Jim Parsons, and others. With Tom and John T., we'd just expose hypocrisy, which has its benefits, I suppose, but would draw attention to them they no longer deserve. "Stale as yesterday's mashed potatoes," as the song goes.
I'm more concerned with the issue of Suri and with whether Katie was so naive to have not realized what she was signing on for. But she was a legal adult when she did (Katie not Suri)--not a Mormon child wife raped into submission. I hope she gets custody and a fat amount of money, but that's the extent of my interest.
"do you really think Cruise acts autonomously?"
NO! Cruise is not the brightest knife in the drawer. I imagine a conversation between Cruise and Miscavage going like this.
TC (Alarmed): David, I just read that Shelley's been missing for 5 years,
DM (Irritated): Tom, I never thought you noticed.
TC (Sheepish): Well ... you know, I do ... did.
DM: I've been so lonely without her.
TC: I should have said something...something???
DM: No, you were right to be discreet, Tom. You always seem to know instinctively what LRH would do.
TC (carefully): Well ... I try ... ha ... what happened?
DM: I didn't want to mention it, because I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me. But, one day, Shelly went to the sauna to sweat off some Thetans and she never came out. Disappeared into thin air.
TC(shocked): Oh my!!!?
DM: She was so spiritual, she went to a higher plane of living. But, I always feel her near me, sometimes I can even smell her perfume. I am probably imagining it.
TC (concerned): David, I didn't know, you kept to this to yourself.
DM: I didn't want to burden the church, so much work still has to be done. Tom, have you seen the new vitamin cafe?
(TOM turns and DAVID sprays some Chanel #5 behind him.)
TC: Yes, it's nice and ... David! What's wrong?"
DM: Nothing ... I'm just remembering Shelley, I feel her so near sometimes.
TC: David! I SMELL HER! I SMELL HER!
(Jumps on couch)
DM (Eyes glistening): You do? I thought it was just my imagination.
(TOM hugs DAVID)
DM: Tom, remember, when we hug, we keep our arms at about shoulder-level.
TC: Sorry ... I just can't believe we just shared this.
DM: Tom, let's go have a nice bowl of Niacin soup, okay?
David talking on the phone while Tom comes into his palatial office.
DM (on phone): Don't worry, Mr. Redstone, I'll talk to him.
TC (wary): Was that ...who I think it was?
DM: Yes, it was Sumner; he asked me to speak to you as your spiritual advisor.
TC (Overwhelmed): I can't believe you all care so much about me ... especially after what Katie did, you guys are like (sniffles) family.
DM: We all care about you and want the best for you.
TC: I know ... I just can't believe it.
DM: I just came back from a meeting of the Pyramid of Celestial Entities.
TC (shocked): Oh ... it's gone that high!
DM: Yes. They asked me to talk to you about Suri.
TC: Don't say it, I know what I have to do. Attack, don't defend. Attack, Attack, Attack! I am going to make Katie and that busy body father of hers regret they ever allowed a poster of me into their house.
DM (double-take): Oh that's right. But, this is different. I think, and the Pyramid agrees with me, that we need to let Katie have Suri.
TC: Why! We've never given up before! Fight! Fight! Fight!
DM: This is different. You NEED to give up Suri. (locks eyes and stares meaningfully). It's a sacrifice demanded by Xenu. I am so sorry, Tom.
TC: Noooooooooooo!...(weeping) Can I talk to the Celestial Entities, I can change their minds, she's my little girl.
DM: You can't, they're invisible.
TC: Oh, that's right.
TC (suddenly suspicious): Why were you talking to Redstone?
DM: I was telling him what the Pyra - the Celestials said about Suri. He's devastated, Tom. He's coming to Sunday Brunch at the Celebrity Center.
TC (suddenly dried-eyed): I can't believe it!
DM: Yes, I am appointing you as the person to convert him.
TC: I am not worthy ... right now, I mean.
DM: Sumner is ready, he's just needs some one like you to lead him in. This hour and this trial - you lost your child, but you still convert Redstone. You're an OT VIII, you can do this.
TC(a whisper): Okay ... (leaves quitely)
DM (on phone): Yeah, this whole Suri thing is going away ... don't mention it ... don't worry, he'll have a girlfriend by then ... No, I believe Penelope is married, she can't reprise her role ... yes, it hard to keep real life separate, happens to me all the time ... see you Sunday, then.
R68 is right, we will never know. I think he's very conflicted; guilt about his gay feelings/urges. As a grand unified DL theory --
Tom is "kinda gay" when he gets to Hollywood, he's discovered by Franco Zeferrelli for God's sake. He does a few rounds of the casting couch, but hits it big with Risky Business almost immediately.
At this point, he's hot property and not too sharp.
He flounders along, with girlfriends and the like until Mimi brings him to Scientology, which promises to cure the gay.
He loses interest in Mimi and gets infatuated with Nicole. Tells her "I'm with Nicole, now."
Spends 10 years with Nicole, trying to keep to the straight and narrow while fighting the gayness through Scientology.
Loses interest in Nicole, at the time one of the most beautiful women on the planet. Flounders about, receives note from the Church that she's a supressive person, until he lands in man-eater Penelope Cruz's clutches.
He drops Nicole the coldest way possible - we know many of the sordid details.
The backlash from the Penelope thing is too much, he never proposes and Penelope leaves him. (Eventually worked out well for her.)
Spends a couple of years by himself, working Scientology, reaching the CLEAR state. Starts looking for a wife. (OMG - what a tip-off)
Finds Katie, jumps on couch, proposes, Suri, marriage, etc. Loses interest in the now-robotic Kaite (here who can blame him, although he caused it).
Hooks up with someone else - trust me on this.
Along the way, he has slips which require wrestling suits, but no worry that's what repair auditing is for.
Hope you dom't fancy yourself a writer, r87.
God no joke
I have a few thoughts about this and a part of them I already expressed.
I believe he is gay. Whether he's a practicing gay or not, I don't know but I think he obviously has some grave issues both with sex and with emotions. To me (I'm a woman) he seems completely and entirely asexual. There's no sexual energy or drive or attraction or anything emanating from him and I don't mean just with his female costars but in general as a man. I just can't even imagine him having sex with anyone. Worse yet, I can't see him loving anybody - man, woman or his own kids/family members.
While reading here a thought occurred to me. What if he's completely impotent/sexually dysfunctional somehow? Judging by his roles and how he behaves in life, always playing "the hero", playing "THE man" I bet for someone like him being thought of as impotent is just as bad as being thought of as gay. It would make his roles seem ridiculous and laughable.
Whatever it is, he has huge issues with sexuality, whatever that sexuality is, if there is any there.
[quote]I don't buy asexual. If he was asexual it would have been easy enough to find some other asexual woman to be his beard for life
That's the opinion of a gay man that knows absolutely nothing about women.
You think it's so easy to fund an asexual woman??? Women on average might have a lower sex drive than men or at least be less impulsive about it but having a lower sex drive doesn't mean a woman NEVER wants to have sex, get the difference?
Not only that. For someone like him it would be even harder to find a woman that never wants sex with him because he's also after young, beautiful women and preferably actresses with at least some measure of fame so it's even harder to find someone like that. Add to that the fact that he would want such a woman to also adopt his sick "religion" and the pickings are almost non-existent.
He could have married a lesbian that fits the bill but he didn't (unless Nicole is Bi although I don't believe she's a lesbian or not strictly lesbian).
He could have married a scientologist but he obviously didn't.
So no, it's not easy at all to find an asexual woman.
R86 R87 8/10. Would read again.
[quote]Ya know, as one of those eldergays I see vilified so often here, I have to say I no longer give a damn about whether TC is gay or not. There would be no Schadenfreude in him being outed for me, as I find him stupid, ridiculous, and loathsome, and I certainly wouldn't call it a win for "our team." Even if it took AC longer to come out than many think it should have (I am fine with his decision to do so whenever the hell he felt like it), at least it seems a positive move, as it has for NPH, Ricky, Jim Parsons, and others. With Tom and John T., we'd just expose hypocrisy, which has its benefits, I suppose, but would draw attention to them they no longer deserve.
As a gayling I totally agree.
You're a sad and pathetic man. You're a homosexual and you don't want to be, but there's nothing you can do to change it. Not all the prayers to your god, not all the analysis you can buy in all the years you've go left to live. You may one day be able to know a heterosexual life if you want it desperately enough. If you pursue it with the fervor with which you annihilate. But you'll always be homosexual as well. Always Tom Cruise, Always. Until the day you die.
15 years ago on the old IH/SG site there were lots of on-set tales of Tom Cruise and the shenanigans in his trailer. Tales of hitting on PAs and other male crew - including a vivid recounting of Tom's foot fetish activities.
He is clearly gay and he and Nicole did not have any more of a real relationship than Mimi. Mimi says more because her legal muzzle wasn't as tight so she can get away with more hinting than Nicole can.
Scientology does not cure the gay - it promises to shield the gay but then uses the gay as blackmail.
[r59] yes, of course
Tell us more about Tom's feets fetish!
[r98] Probably something that came out of his wrestling fetish. They seem to go hand in hand. A lot of gay jocks who are into wrestling get into socks and feet, too. I understand how they get there, but I am not articulate enough to explain it here. Anyway, TC's sexuality is rather classic Catholic seminarian stuff. It's not really mainstream, so to speak, but tied to wrestling and jock activity. It didn't necessarily have to do with a lot of affection but mostly rough body contact. Sometimes the kind of thing you can do with a straight guy when you're young and get away with it ` not so much when you're grown up. I'll bet he really likes the Princeton rub.
No, who would want to claim that freak as "one of us"?
R101: My point is, whether he were to declare himself gay, Republican, Democrat, Native American, Jehovah's Witness, Boston Brahmin, left-handed, New Age Spiritualist, or chairwoman-elect of the Ladies' Garden Society, who would want embrace his stated affiliation with their camp?
Except maybe the Crazy as a Shithouse Rat League; there he would fit right in.
Well, we didn't want to embrace Roy Cohn, but as it turns out, there he was, one of us. [r102] It's very difficult once the bar door is opened ...
er, once the barn door is open ... but, I guess "bar" works just as well.
I love the attempt at celebrity gossip revisionism but Tom Cruise is Gay.
I've only started to hear the asexual argument when a) his hot faded and b) his Crazy hit the media.
An asexual man would never be in the kinds of situations he has been reported to have been in - hiring male hookers to wrestle with.
Once again, Tom Cruise is a deeply closeted gay man.
So Geffen produced Risky Bussiness and Interview With a Vampire and none of you thought even once, that Geffen may have hit on Tom?
I can't imagine him having sex with anyone or even an animal or his hand. Is there any proof he actually has a penis? Maybe the monk thing and the refusing to fuck Mimi thing was because he's got no dick at all.
R15 Does his thetan level contribute to this?
And what was that business about him having an affair with his co-star in Risky Business? Everyone knows she is a dyke and her ex is gayer than I am. If someone is straight, why do they have to make up stories?
Interesting point, r110.
I cant believe this thread actually has steam. Where did all the Tom Cruise is gay deniers come from? And are they Scientology plants? Because really....
Unless Scientology came up with a cure for homosexuality then Tom Cruise is still gay. If you think he is asexual you need to rewatch his earlier movies then try and claim he gives of no sexual vibe.
Being highly repressed does not equal asexual!!!
I cant believe this thread actually has steam. Where did all the Tom Cruise is gay deniers come from? And are they Scientology plants? Because really....
Unless Scientology came up with a cure for homosexuality then Tom Cruise is still gay. If you think he is asexual you need to rewatch his earlier movies then try and claim he gives of no sexual vibe.
Being highly repressed does not equal asexual!!!
Scientology would whack Tom Cruise if he ever even considered coming out. Tom would have to pull a Randy Quaid and move to rural Canada.
[quote]Where did all the Tom Cruise is gay deniers come from?
I didn't post on this thread the first time, but I also don't think Cruise is gay. I'm also of the opinion that Jake Gyllenhaal is straight. Both gay rumors have been built on a veritable mountain of completely unsubstantiated gossip, even more so in Jake's case (it's based entirely on the Toothy Tile story, which reads as fiction AND was never confirmed as being about Jake in the first place).
I still remember the original Mimi Rogers "Playboy" interview about Tom, in which she says he's "like a saint" and concerned with maintaining the "purity of his instrument." While a lot of people mistakenly interpreted that as being a comment that he's not into women, I took it as a comment that he's not into SEX, period. I agree with the early comments here that he comes off completely sexless.
Did anyone see him on Graham Norton last week? It was so painful to watch. He is like a robot or an alien. You could tell Graham was biting his tongue to not say anything too gay...and Cruise didn't stay for the whole show like most guests do (Hugh Jackman was backstage!) AND had some blond British actress on the couch with him who is his co-star. I guess he needed a chick with him if he was going it alone with a gay chat host.
The whole thing was really weird. I think his issues go way beyond being gay or straight.
[quote] and there has been no public evidence at all, none, to support the rumors.
One musn't give ANY credence to those rentboys retailing the wrestling fetish stories. Those boys are golddigging scum. Scum, do you hear!!!
Mimi Rogers didn't say Cruise was like a "saint" she said he was like a monk, that he wanted to become a monk.
I agree with other posters that he began as gay and in the closet and is still there. In the meantime, he found Scientology - became even more repressed - married and divorced, bought two kids to adopt with Kidman and one with Holmes that he pretends is his biological kid.
My question about Tom Cruise's marital choices is this - why didn't he marry Scientologists? There are plenty of them - even some younger actresses.
It still amazes me that TC has managed to maintain the kind of career that he's had, because let's face it, he's a pretty shitty actor. When was the last time he delivered an authentically emotional performance? Even when he tries, he always comes off as some kind of alien creature imitating what he thinks is human action. Quite bizarre.
"When Tammy was in Australia doing press many years ago he was taken for a sightseeing cruise on Sydney Harbour to allow the local press to get some photo's of him in front of some Sydney landmarks...Cruise had brought along his large retinue of employees...but it was his gym-toned, twinky P.A. who aroused the curiosity of the aussie media there. He looked A LOT like Tom and didn't seem to actually do much apart from stay VERY CLOSE to Tom and brazenly getting himself into all of the photo's with a haughty "I'm with him" attitude."
Thanks for the info, R65, but seriously, don't you know the difference between plural ("photos") and possessive ("photo's")? I mean, it's BASIC English. If you don't understand the difference, maybe you should have someone explain it to you so you don't look stupid when you write something.
"Should Tom Cruise Come Out?"
He should just do as he damn well pleases. I can't imagine that anyone cares about him either way. It is hard to imagine why or how he was ever successful in the movie business anyway.
Would just like to point out for R1's benefit that the Catholic Corporation is a "violent, homophobic cult" as well. Let's not forget it.
I'm pretty sure Scientology is obligated to kill Cruise if he comes out.
Re: Graham Norton, I imagine the pre-conditions for the interview were like nothing Norton's ever seen. Still, TC is a 'star' to the clueless and a medical curiosity to everyone else, so it'll have been worth it 'for the show.'
Of course he'd break tradition by not mingling with other guests: way too risky when the banter starts and he can't join in for fear of some helpless giveaway.
Re: not marrying $cienos; maybe it's because his self-image demands being seen as a player, someone Out There who can hook the hot young (usefully famous) actresses, then move on, studly guy that he is.
Comical narcissism, but it makes him seem to himself and his controllers more Action Man than keeping his beards in-house would.
[quote]Did anyone see him on Graham Norton last week? It was so painful to watch. He is like a robot or an alien. You could tell Graham was biting his tongue to not say anything too gay...
Wow, I can't even picture him on Graham Norton. He comes off as the type who doesn't want to be near anyone gay for fear others will think he's gay too.
Did Graham pick up on it?
You're right R127. Jewish, Muslim, etc.. Are let off the hook a lot of times. As are other religions. Scientology (and Christian ) faiths are held with they're feet to the fire. I'm tired of people coming up with excuses to just blast the easy, pc targets. They are ALL shit. I can't stand what they stand for.
As far as Tom Cruise goes. I don't know if he is gay or not. I also don't care. I never did. But he is a celebrity (a big one) so he is going to be gossiped about. No big deal.
I'm another one who thinks he is possibly gay and deeply closeted but more likely asexual. He doesn't seem to have chemistry with any of his female costars.
I have to say that besides a few planted stories such as "Tom's wild nights with new gf" very little is being reported and he's definitely keeping a low profile. I think he and the cult have finally figured out that the public isn't buying the heterosexual, testosterone filled, studly ladies man image anymore.
r131 = Scienobot hiding behind false equivalence bullshit.
The Catholic church insults gay people. They don't brainwash their gay members though, nor do they harrass people when they want to leave.
The catholics are bullies. Scientologists are criminals. Not the same.
Deal with it, Kirstie.
R133, the Catholic Church does more than bully, and its entrenched positions on social issues are, technically, criminal. But, no, they don't usually take out hits, arrange for people to die from neglect, or use overt blackmail to retain members' loyalty. Unless eternal damnation is considered a form of blackmail.
Any time the subject comes up I just find myself hoping he's not - in addition to being a manipulated, humorless, witless, stupid, deluded fool - gay. I mean, who wants this thing to be gay?
Who cares? No gay, unless out of his mind, would want him!!!!
R121, why would he put himself in that position? The GN Show is not a place I would risk sending him too.
Connor looks a lot like Tom and makes me wonder if Tom is actually straight and got some black woman pregnant while married to Nicole and they ended up having to say he was adopted. That is why Nicole isn't close to her kids.
If he's not gay, he's an incredibly high functioning autistic/Aspbergers person. There's a disconnect to his emotional life that is very "off."
Definite possibility R139. He doesn't seem to have any genuine emotions and only fakes what he thinks normal people feel and that's why he comes across as crazy or over the top in his reactions hence the jumping on the couch because he is so "in love".
Of course he's gay. If you are old enough, you remember the claim back in '83 that he was not an actor but a street hustler who was made into an actor from the same sort of people who said Jodie Foster was gay. I don't have any personal knowledge but since people have come forward repeatedly through the years about his paying guys for weird scenes, I think it very peculiar that you guys would think anything different. A lot of people back in the 1970s thought that having money means you can keep your whole life private and it will prevent anyone having power over you. It's not true, but it's what dumb rednecks from New Jersey thought. We aren't seeing mental illness here, we are seeing a male Snooki from forty years ago, a perfect example of a seventies dumbshit who never grew up.
[quote]don't you know the difference between plural ("photos") and possessive ("photo's")
Photo is a contraction of photograph so an apostrophe is correct in the plural form.
I write the shortened form of telephone as 'phone too.
Tom is, as another person said in another thread, "Trapped by his experiences," the experience of a teenager in a homophobic era.
Whether he's g-y or str--ght, he should stay in the closet. Neither group wants him.
What r141 said
i heard he gad a boyfriend with him on set years ago
Tom is no AIDS boy. He's got a weird religion but no weirder than a Mohammedian.
"Tom Cruise is Roy Cohn"
Silly and stupid comparison. The Salon article and OP post are well taken. My guess is that R1 knows squat about Roy Cohn and what he thinks he knows about Tom Cruise is all in his feverish head.
Cruise is definitely as strange man- probably not very smart- under the influence of a very strange and in my opinion, seriously troubling cult. That is as much as I know.
He can stay in the closet. I don't think there is anything to be gained from the wreck he'd be after his cult kicks him out for coming out. Plus, I think he'd damage our team by joining us because he's crazy.
There are three groups of guys I would call "gay": (1) guys who say they're gay (at least to someone), (2) guys who have sex almost exclusively with men, and (3) guys who want to have sex mostly with men and may or may not do it because they're in denial.
I have no idea if Cruise is in class 2 or 3, but he's not first class gay, that's for sure.
I think it's possible he's one of these super-fucked up guys. I'm nt going back through this thread to see if it was already posted, but if it's true he was into being dominated from behind, bound and having guys do things "to" him and that's it, I can picture it.
A boyfriend? No.
A relationship with any human, male or female? No.
Full of self-loathing and possibly deeply tormented by homosexuality so much that he's an asexual freak in real life?
That I believe.
Knew him as teen. Not gay, but as many her note, as did first wife, asexual, or better, non-sexual. Trauma of early life?
"In my view, it is just not plausible that a mega-watt star like TC could be so famous for so long, engage in gay-sex seeking activities, and yet not a shred of evidence can confirm it (or even hint at it)."
The media will generally refrain from "outing" people, so many stars get away with it for years, especially if they are "discreet"
I mean, what evidence are you expecting? A sex tape?
I'm with R150. Tom's an asexual freak.
Oh, he's gay all right but so messed up I sometimes wonder if he's had sex at all. If he has, it was decades ago before the CO$ got to him.
Didn't Tom wanted to become a priest at one time?
Knew him as a teen, R151? Yeah, um, bullshit.
Yes, R154. Ascetic streak plus terrifying father. Equals the non-sexual Tom Maypother. You should have seen his cousins from Rochester...movie star looks and charisma, the latter quality vastly underrated . Once you meet a star with charisma, duende, you'll know I mean. Cruise had it. And still does.
Cruise is over the hill. Leave the silly man alone. He's not the first to be grossed out by his own knowledge of himself.
Even if the guy were straight, he's still very fucked up. Being gay is the least of his personal problems.
The best thing for him to do, if he could even perform, is to have a heterosexual encounter sex tape "accidentally" released.
r158, it wouldn't make any difference. He's been playing a heterosexual for a long time with all kinds of love scenes on film, plus playing publicity heterosexuality with these marriages finally turning out a little alien baby.
For mos actors, you'd say the person on film is an act, but the same guy we saw hopping up and down on Oprah's couch, and same guy we saw attacking Matt Lauer over scientology and the same guy we've read speaking through his lawyers saying how a gay reputation would undermis manhood gives off the same vibe he gives through all of his characters: smug, cocky, deluded, spoiled, on the verge of cracking up, pseudo-jock.
Taps, Risky Business, Color of Money, Top Gun, on and on and on.
He's crazy. We don't want him.
When Tom dies someone will write a bio that details America's obsession with a mentally challenged man. Whatever he likes in the bedroom, I truly believe that Tom Cruise is a...special person. His IQ is equal to that of an eggplant.
Janet Charlton is claiming that Tammy is NOT, positively NOT a homosexual.
Even if you knew him as a teen, how can you possibly know if he's gay or not, especially if closeted. Unless he was girl crazy and obviously pinging as straight.
He wore my ass out on a meth fueled weekend in Malibu.
On part of Tom Cruise's life you NEVER hear about is exactly how he got into movies in the first place. He graduated from high school in 1980 in a small town in Jersey and literally a year later he was in "Taps." He had no connections in the Industry. It all happened so fast for him.
I don't think Cruise is gay(i cannot be sure 100% though, how could i?) He is narcissistic though, so people confuse his narcissism with homosexuality.
Could it be possible he's actually not gay?
He is a decades-old awkward fake. Who is he trying to fool, & what about.
Add in the weird associations and relationships - dude is gay even if "ex-" and celibate.
Where's "Mr. Hollywood's" and "Oleg Cassini's" opinion on this?
(WHERE are they??????)
Not gay. Something else.
I don't like his big nose and his teeth are weird.
Well those $cieno auditing tapes must contain something of interest.
If he's asexual, he could surely have found a lifetime $cieno beard without all the negative attention his comedy 'wives' attracted.
But then, to quote 'All The President's Men', these are really not very bright guys.
Pat Kingsley, Nic and Katie, among others, know where the bodies are buried, and, being so complicit, will doubtless take their own secrets to the bone orchard.
The whole vibe reminds me of Sinatra and the mob. An inescapable part of his persona for life, but acknowledged never.
Why should he?
What he does in his personal life is no one's business except his.
I don't care of he is gay or not.
He looks damn good for his age.
You girls have never had anything as handsome as he is, and I am not a fan of his.
Excuse me ....
TOM CRUISE IS 110% HETEROSEXUAL AND THE DREAM IDEAL MAN OF WOMEN EVERYWHERE !!
Well, at least according to his publicist.
Does anyone really care? Like Revolta, who gives a shit.
I think it's instructive to compare Cruise and Travolta. Travolta has had multiple men come forward, with dates and narratives, claiming that he's had sex with them and that he speaks of himself to them as being mostly attracted to men. When they've recanted it's always been because of fears of lawsuits. I think it's safe to assume Travolta is bisexual to gay, but that he's afraid of coming out.
With Cruise, there have been persistent rumors but actually very few men who've come forward with stories of having slept with him. We also have heard repeatedly from those close to him that he at least speaks of himself privately as if he were straight. I'm fairly certain that with all the smoke around him there is probably some kind of fire, but the best and most likely story I've heard is that Cruise--like most actors--when he was starting out would fuck anyone (or be fucked by anyone) who was strongly attracted to him, and that in the late Seventies when he was starting out as an actor he may have turned tricks with men to make some money. But I would say Cruise probably today genuinely thinks of himself as a straight guy who "experimented"; while Travolta probably knows he's gay and is just chicken-shit.
R176 Cruise sued those who came forward. Travolta has not. THat's the only difference.
His first wife, Mimi Rogers once said Tammy spent more time checking out her brother than her. He's as much a homo as I am and as far as I'm concerned, he can stay in his closet till L.Ron calls him from the cult beyond.
Travolta is gay. I've heard dozens of stories from all around town. He doesn't even seem to really hide it when he's out and about.
Cruise? Who knows, really? I know that he fucked around with David Geffen early on. But beyond that I've never heard any specific stories of any boyfriends or trysts.
And I know that he and Rebecca De Mornay had a real relationship and she still likes him a lot.
I think he's odd an asexual. Maybe he has gay feelings and Scientology has taught him to repress them. But I don't think he's actively gay.
Better he dies in a grease fire.
I no longer care if he comes out. I don't go to his movies and I don't much care what he does.
He's dead to me and should be to you as well.
Yes. Save talk show, therapists', closet fainting couches!
R139: Putting aside the question of Cruise's sexuality, I have Asperger Syndrome and I also know probably 10 other Aspies personally, and have interacted with more than that on message boards, and read books/articles by authors on the Spectrum who talk about their experiences/interactions with others throughout their lives. Whatever the hell Cruise's problem is, it's not that. We aren't emotionless or prone to his particular kind of weird behaviors. We have our issues and they may seem "weird" but you won't see us jumping on a couch and shouting about a weird fake relationship. It's more like we have a more limited emotional palette than what is considered "normal" and if we sometimes seem unemotional in situations that are emotionally intense, it's often that we are overwhelmed by the intensity, not that we aren't feeling anything. We are also very logical and if we have something we want to hide from we don't join a cult, let alone an evil one. We retreat into ourselves, become hermits, try to shut out the outside world, abuse substances to numb ourselves, bang our heads, rock, stim.
There are actors who are on the spectrum, certainly. Some of us are capable of it. I am an excellent mimic, just as an example.
My point is that maybe Cruise has a personality disorder or massive insecurity stemming from being closeted or impotent or asexual (by nature or by self-hatred or because of childhood abuse) or who knows what, but that is NOT the behavior of an Autistic/Asperger person.
Having said that, he carries mild markers for holoprosencephaly. It might be the real thing he's hiding, who knows!