Arm yourself with knowledge. This link includes all the info you need about the Affordable Care Act (aka "ObamaCare"), in plain English. It tells you what is in it, and when things to into effect. It explains this whole "is it a tax? is it a mandate?" thing as well... exposing all the lies the right is pushing.
Know the facts. Then spread them around. Confront anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about, or who is spreading lies.
Lots of great, easy to understand info at the link:
OP it never defines the most important thing...what do they consider 'affordable'?
Yeah it does, R1:
"If you are low income, which is considered a gross income between 100% to 400% of the Federal Poverty Line (FPL), then you qualify for the new premium tax credit to help you pay for health insurance. You are allowed to take this credit immediately after January 1, 2014 to help you pay your insurance premium. The credit can even go directly to your insurance company. Your maximum out of pocket costs for paying the premium under the law for those who are eligible for the tax credit is from 2% for those nearest the poverty line up to 9.5% for those at 400% of the poverty line. These are the affordability guidelines under code 36B(c)(2)(C). Anything above 9.5% is considered unaffordable under the guidelines.
Essentially any individual making up to approximately $45,000 per year or family of four with an income up to $75,000 per year will likely be eligible for a tax credit starting January 2014. An individual near the poverty line just above the medicaid eligibility would pay as little as approximately $25 per month up to about $50 per month for a family of four. Near the top end of the tax credit eligibility range, your out of pocket maximum will be approximately $350 per month for an individual to $590 per month for a family of four. Anything above these amounts will be covered through the tax credit."
So what if that family of four at the top of the range cannot AFFORD 500 plus per month.
What if their expenses are more and what they can afford is 120 a month.
To say this is affordable is bullshit. It is only affordable if you can afford it.
Fuck you R3.
Allow us to see what your expenditures are and WE'LL tell you where you can cut back or stop spending in order to afford your one damn health insurance.
I don't care that you can no longer afford cigarettes, or booze, or expensive sneakers, or cars you can't afford, or trips you can't afford, or the steaks you cannot afford.
If you're truly needy, then you will be seen to.
I am sick of paying for you and your whiny crowd.
Again, FUCK YOU!
Fuck you R4 Socialized medicine for all is the only solution.
Obama's gift to the big business insurance companies profits is hated by many Dems.
Agreed that universal health care is the answer.
But you're not going to get there in one step.
THIS solution is one step on that road.
It's not perfect. Nobody says it is. Nobody said it would be.
It was what could be accomplished now. It will help MILLIONS. It is already helping millions. It will save lives. It is already saving lives.
It's better than what we had before.
So this is great why? I'm sorry, I'm really confused. Why is making everyone buy health insurance a great thing?
Health care and health insurance in this country is terrible, so why is making people buy it such a good thing? It just means insurance companies will find more reason to deny claims, forcing the individuals who are now actually going to the doctor because they think they have insurance to be responsible for these bills.
Which means more bad credit for those already in a bad financial place.
I'm not a troll or anything. I vote Dem across the board and will continue to do so, but I guess I'm missing why this is such an important and great thing.
[quote]Why is making everyone buy health insurance a great thing?
Are you stupid or did you just refuse to read the link?
FROM THE LINK:
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.
No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.
If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.
The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.
Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance."
Do you even undestand how insurance works? What risk-pools are?
Do you [italic]get it[/italic] now?
President Obama and the Democrats have done a terrible job explaining and defending the Affordable Care Act. Perhaps they have learned their lesson.
This is another reason the major media is irrelevant. Why isn't this kind of summary in every newspaper published the day after SCOTUS issued their decision? Thank god for bloggers and message boards.
I think there will be a lot understanding "ah"s when the rebates arrive toward the end of the year.
At least the way the president explained it in his address after the SCOTUS decision, insurance companies are required to send you a rebate if they've spent more on non-medical expenses than they are permitted to.
Hope these checks come in late Oct.
And as far as "what if a family of 4 can't afford $500?" it's a far cry (lower) from what's currently being charged now for families that don't have coverage. I have a friend who is an exercise instructor in excellent health and pays her own health insurance and it's in the $600 a month range.
And I know a lot of other people who have no health insurance at all (even working people) simply because they can't afford it.
[quote]"If you are low income, which is considered a gross income between 100% to 400% of the Federal Poverty Line (FPL), then you qualify for the new premium tax credit to help you pay for health insurance. You are allowed to take this credit immediately after January 1, 2014 to help you pay your insurance premium. The credit can even go directly to your insurance company. Your maximum out of pocket costs for paying the premium under the law for those who are eligible for the tax credit is from 2% for those nearest the poverty line up to 9.5% for those at 400% of the poverty line. These are the affordability guidelines under code 36B(c)(2)(C). Anything above 9.5% is considered unaffordable under the guidelines.
What of the people with no income who therefore do not file tax returns? What good is a tax credit to do for them -- 99 ers, for example -- especially in States where Medicaid won't cover them?
No, FUCK YOU R4.
This is a shitty plan and wasn't worth destroying the party over. If you think anything is going to creep into deeper and better plans, you aren't listening. BOTH parties hate this plan and it only works for a minority of people already draining the system and taxes the shit out of the rest of us.
How I spend my money is none of your business. I work for a living, so go fuck yourself and spread your Nazi propaganda elsewhere.
R12, the rest are supposed to be covered by Medicaid. Unfortunately the requirement that states expand Medicate to cover them was struck down by the supreme court, and many states (notably: red ones) are not planning to implement the coverage.
And R13, please stop being a rage-a-holic, ill-informed, short-sighted idiot. Thanks, hon.
I pay $630 a month on Cobra, which runs out at the end of the year. Is my insurance going up or down?
The exchanges and elimination of pre-existing conditions for everyone don't kick in until 2014 (after the election). Providing Obama wins, things will get a lot better than. If Romney wins and the GOP takes the Senate, you can bank on most of this being undone in short order.
I have and pay a lot of private insurance.
I still can't get prompt care.
I needed and MRI for my shoulder and finally got it 4 MONTHS after the cuff was torn (no appointments available). I get a referral to a specialist who has no availability for 3 months, then a script for rehab and they have no appointments for two months.
Trust me when I tell you that private companies will always find a way to delay the service you need.
This healthcare plan is good for a few and bad for 99% of us.
Has anybody talked about what a nightmare the Medicaid paperwork is?
That's weird. I have really middle of the road insurance, and I can generally get MRIs the same day, or certainly within a couple of days.
Where do you live?
So my employer is going to dump me off Blue Cross and throw me onto Medicaid. Yeah I am looking forward to that.
What's strange is how people are viewing this Healthcare Law as a reflection on Obama, when all he did was to push Congress to come up with something. They came up with this odd mish-mash but O has been riding on it or hiding from it ever since.
And now Romney is forced to run against a plan he originated and O's congressional supporters copied.
Cokie Roberts and some toons do a much finer job explaining.
I'm not trying to be mean about things, but I have a question.
What if you are just truly quite poor and live over in one of the Red States which will not expand Medicaid? You would be fined for being poor and should maybe move?
Once again. I am not trying to be mean about things, I am just curious.
[quote]So my employer is going to dump me off Blue Cross and throw me onto Medicaid. Yeah I am looking forward to that.
Why would they do that? Don't be an idiot.
[quote]What if you are just truly quite poor and live over in one of the Red States which will not expand Medicaid? You would be fined for being poor and should maybe move?
No, the fines are only for those who CAN afford it, but choose to free-load instead.
Since until this past week, all states were required to expand Medicaid, I can't say what would happen. I would doubt it would be any worse than what those same individuals are going through now. And MAYBE it'll give them a push to stop voting for Republicans. We can hope. Because it's REPUBLICANS preventing them from getting any of the health-care they need.
r8, that doesn't address my question. But yes, I get everything you just said, and already was aware of it.
I have insurance now through work. It does not cover any and all medical expenses, procedures, etc. And I doubt it will start.
So what will happen is companies will just start denying claims and the cost will go directly to the patient. I don't see the benefit there.
[quote]No, the fines are only for those who CAN afford it, but choose to free-load instead.
No, the fines are only for those THE GOVERNMENT HAS DECIDED can afford whether they truly can or not.
R19 because of trolldar I would never reveal where I live. All it takes is a little bit of disclosure and the trolls with stalk you.
For medicaid, do applicants have to really report the income of everyone living in the same house? And are debts taken into account when determining the income limit?
The real problem is twofold and cyclical.
First is the cost of healthcare. Healthcare is expensive because there is a large number who people who can not pay for it. As a result medical providers raise the cost of services in order to make up some the losses from those of us who are insured. Many also want to make a profit.
Second is the high cost of insurance is one is able to get it. Insurance premiums are getting higher and claims are being denied because the rising cost of healthcare. They also want to make a profit.
If everyone is in the insurance pool then healthcare providers have no excuse for raising cost because they are no longer having to make up losses from the uninsured.
Insurance companies will have a larger pool of risk and should stop premium increases and would also have less wiggle room to deny claims. Further a great deal of their profits has to go the consumers thereby lower the chances of insurance companies gouging consumers.
The item that Roberts changed from a Mandate to Fine or Tax, was Item 5,000A. Where was it hidden in the 2,900 pages that Nancy had to be voted on "so we can what's in it" ?
As usual, Republicans live in mortal fear of everything. FACT: a large majority of Mass. citizens LOVE their RomneyCare, which is the exact same thing as ObamaCare.
If I already have health insurance, will I still be able to use the exchanges to find a new policy that fits my needs better?
R29, insurance companies will be restricted from making big increases to your health insurance premiums under the ACA.
I have great insurance. What was shocking was seeing how much the hospitals/providers charged vs. the little the insurance company actually had to pay. Fortunately I didn't have to pay the difference, but it makes one wonder about how inflated those bills were.
R34, I took my son to the ER for stitches. I saw the nurse remove a bandaid from a box that was a free sample but on my bill I paid $15 for a bandaid that was free!
R35, that's why you should always take your own prescriptions and toiletries from home if you're ever admitted to the hospital.
It's much better to read a nonpartisan reputable site that calls out both sides in this program to bail put the insurance industry
Seems to me we have government to solve problems we cannot solve on our own Problem: too many people don't have medical insurance, and we all pay for them. Solution number 1: make everybody have insurance....solution #2: allow emergency rooms and all other medical providers to turn their backs on anyone needing treatment if they don't have insurance..... Assuming you don't want #2, would someone please provide me with a 3rd solution? If you are anti handout and anti-freeloader, it seems to me the two above solutions are the only ones.
R39 Solution number one.
Social medicine paid for via taxes.
No other solution is needed.
But r39, plenty of people want option #2.
Please vote wisely in Nov.
[quote]So this is great why? I'm sorry, I'm really confused. Why is making everyone buy health insurance a great thing?
The immediate issue is getting everyone some sort of coverage. Too many people slipped through the cracks which introduced too much uncertainty and cost shifting overall. The ACA is a way to get a handle on that, although it's incomplete, and single-payer financing (aka HR 676 or Medicare for All) would do it much better.
The real question is why congress refused to even *discuss* single payer as an option/solution. Obama campaigned on having a public option, but congress would not even discuss it.
[quote]Why would they do that? Don't be an idiot.
Why wouldn't they? My company pays 550 a month for my coverage. 6,600 a year vs the fine of 2000 for dropping coverage. So they can save 4600 a year by dropping coverage for a single man. Multiply that by 940 employees factor in the additional cost for family coverage.
They can save a shit load of cash by dropping coverage.
Obama, Biden and the Dems need to get some catchy phrases in place and repeat the hell out of them. Like it or not, the ACA decision gave the Repubs an issue to rally around. The Dems better be ready starting now to market, market, market the daylights out of ACA.
Which, yes, I think is a good idea as a first step, though I really would have preferred the public option. But I'll take this. For now.
Using that logic, R44, your company would've stopped paying for your healthcare before now and would have been saving that $550/mo. per employee.
Companies pay their employees' health insurance because it's good business. It's a way to attract and retain the best employees. That's not changing.
So, your company continues to pay what it pays now, has no penalty, and uses those costs to evaluate adding more employees when the time comes.
I've been reading ObamaCare, and honestly it is a mess, who can understand it? I have looked up some of the words contained in it and they aren't even in the dictionary! How can a layperson understand it? If there are no definitions for the words contained in it how can the populace understand it? Has any elected official read this goobly gook? It should be condensed into 15 pages in laymen's terms so everyone can understand it, it leads me to believe in its present form that the American people are getting the shaft with this.
I've got a serious health issue. I'm low income. I'm uninsurable. I've been thrown off the (voter approved and mandated in 2000!) Medicaid expansion in Arizona, thanks to the sociopathic Jan Brewer.
I'm trying to ride out the unfortunate 6mo. waiting period for ObamaCare's pre-existing PCIP, which I'll barely be able to pay. I'm making plans to exit the God-forsaken state I was born in if Jan fucks with the Medicaid expansion in 2014, selling my house of 20 years and moving on.
I'm sad that the Supremes will let the state continue their social Darwinism...a war against the a variety of 'undesirables' including the low income...that is currently having such tragic effects.
I think we will all find out in the very near future that Obama Care is a disaster and will severely hurt our already struggling economy. I have to say, the citizens of the USA asked for it.
If my health insurance costs increase, something else will have to go that I am paying for. I might even file for bankruptcy. Undoubtedly I won't be alone. What will that do to the economy? Not anything good for the future.
r21, is this the mish mash Pelosi told them to vote for before they could see what was in it?
It already is a disaster.
read it and weep, r49, r50, and r51.
Then go to town on yourself with a rusty dildo!
Obama: It's not a tax! The Right is lying!!
After SC decision: Obviously, it's a tax. The Right is lying!
Why do the American population have to pay their premiums, why Obama exempted the Congressional staffs!! New regulation makes the tax payers pay for 75% of these individuals premiums! IT should be the same for everyone!! Already these criminals are adapting the laws and regulations to benefit selected individuals and groups!
[quote]"Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146%"
Um, R53, that article was debunked a long time ago. It's bullshit, comparing apples to oranges.
[quote]I think we will all find out in the very near future that Obama Care is a disaster and will severely hurt our already struggling economy.
Except that you have no data, zilch, zero, to back up that "thought."
The fun thing about this thread is F&F tagging the anti-healthcare morons.
Why not just face reality, R64.
The fools that think that the ACA is anything more than a gift to the big insurance companies need to be exposed.
8 weeks into the official launch and the website is STILL BROKEN!
Obamacare is the perfect example of incompetent and dangerous government central planning.
R65- facing reality would mean admitting that the government is incapable of competency, responsibility, accountability and efficiency.
Obamacare will live on and expand, long after all of you dumb cunts are dead. The fact that this drives you insane is just the icing on the cake.
I smell the cheap stench of libertarian idiots on this thread. Smells like lubricant and denial.
Put your XXXL dildo in the dishwasher and set it to "sanitize". That should stop the smell.
Is it fixed yet? I really need insurance bad.
What is F&F? Also ww? I've been participating here for a few months, but can't figure out these things. Thanks.
When someone posts something you agree with, you click the W&W tab.
When someone posts something that challenges your worship of the government, or something that challenges your prejudices - then press F&F and any discussion that forces you to reconsider those beliefs will be deleted!
Ok, thanks, ...I guess.
Thanks for confirming, R71. I always try to keep track of what Libertarian idiots have to say, so I can make sure to do the exact opposite.
Enjoy being poor, R76
Do you get it?
Not really. I'm using an iPad, and nothing seems to happen when I press either notation.
It should pop up and say "flag saved" when you hit FF or W&W on an iPad.
[quote]Enjoy being poor, [R76]
Quite the opposite, thanks.
Hope your portfolio didn't take a hit when the Euro collapsed last year. Oh right, it didn't did it?
Well at least you're properly insured against the MASSIVE hyperinflation that destroyed the global economy in 2012. Oh, wait...
Well I guess you can eat all that gold bullion you have stockpiled in your basement.
I do get the "flag saved" message, but what does that mean? It doesn't seem to have any effect.
Any advice on picking a plan? I'm leaning towards a bronze plan, although someone suggested it may be better to pick the silver (at $80 more/month) because it's better to have more than you need than not enough.
Yes, my advice is to not pay attention to what you hear here. There are numerous posts on various related threads that are clearly either from liars, or incompetents. There are too many sore losers who are trying to sabotage the rollout, sorry!
The millions of people who lost their insurance did it to fuck up your nappy ass hair.