The fastest growing jobs in the nation earn $20,000 per year: personal care aides and home health aides. Who in the fuck wants to do that?
My neighbor owns a street sweeping business. He's getting PhDs applying to sweep the streets. He won't them because they're overqualified.
My niece, who graduated from college last year is waitressing because she can't find a job She pays close to $300/month in student loans. The scary part is that she is the norm.
In ten years, there won't be a middle class.
Oh please. Just because you're having problems doesn't mean the entire country is.
Actually, I did that job, OP. I now work in the disability field and continue to provide personl care in addition to other aspects of disability support. Supporting others is not work that one need be ashamed of doing (but yes, paying so low does tend to devalue the work that is done, which is a shame.)
If Romney is elected, and ESPECIALLY if the GOP takes the Congress, the middle-class is definitely gone in a generation or less. That's 20 years, folks.
$20,000 is plenty of money in some areas of the US. Maybe not NYC, but it's probably not too bad if you live in the south.
It sounds like the people you know were stupid enough to take out a hundred grand in student loans to land twenty thousand a dollar year jobs.
I know a lady who worked her way through school and now is a nurse making 75K to start.
I know a guy who has a PHd from the University of Chicago making 200K
I guess it's just being smart enough to get a degree in a field that has job openings.
Pretty silly to bitch about no jobs when you have a journalism major.
This has been going on for thirty years, and intensively for more than ten. And you're just waking up to it now OP? A little slow on the uptake, aren't we?
The US Government is trying to get Americans to work for less than the Chinese. This is their plan to save the US economy......seriously.
Oh please. I'm in advertising in NYC. I just my second huge salary increase in as many years. The second increase came after my company countered after I received another lucrative job offer and attempted to resign. I'm just not feeling the crunch, and neither is anyone I know. I don't know anyone who is suffering at the moment.
Wow R8 do you know how to dare Providence or what!
op is some "occupy" fanatic, with no friends, trying to stir up some shit.
[quote]I just my second huge salary increase in as many years.
About a year and a half ago I was making 40k. Lost my job. landed a temp to perm gig after 14 months being out of work. The job is basically the same thing I did at the old job, except I'm now working for a small start up vs a large international company. I'm now making 25k.
I'm living in the southwest. I can just squeak by on 25k, barring stuff like the car crapping out (12 years old) or something needing repairs at home.
I lost track of the number of times I ended up interviewing for the same positions as a half dozen of my former coworkers who lost their jobs. So far me and one other guy landed jobs since we got let go. He's not making much more than me--I interviewed for the job he got, It's at a bigger local company with more money, but with so many people out of work, salaries keep getting pushed down.
R8 can suck my fat one.
Let's see if we have this right; too many over-qualified people, not enough decent-paying jobs ... and you say that "in ten years there won't be a middle class."
There will be ... if you vote for Mitt Romney in November, and leave behind this loser with his loser ideas left over the 1960's and 1970's.
He has officially been classifed as a "badly aging leftover hippie from days long gone by." Talk about a mid-life crisis he's having right NOW on stage, and the whole world is his audience, laughing and sniveling at him all the way.
SHHHH! Don't tell him.
Massachusetts Born & Raised
So of course, you're voting for Barack again because of DADT, Bin Laden and his weak support of gay marriage. Am I spot-on or what????
Lots of well-insulated Republicans coming out of the woodwork on this thread!
(R5) Or a degree in "fine arts". LMFAO. Actually, as a retired Physical Therapist who worked strictly with the elderly, I can tell you that you can write your own ticket now if you are a PT or a PTA(Physical Therapist Assistant). If you either of these, you will actually be sought after through mailings etc. which companies obtain through your state licensing bureau. I still get inquiries from companies wanting me to work for them....with sign on bonuses!!! I have no desire to work anymore. But, it's nice to be desired.
(R12) And you also are voting for BO in November?
1 percenters like R8 or posers trying to anger people.
R17, I don't want to, but I'll hold my nose and vote for Obama.
As far as I'm concerned Obama has done nothing for people like me. My life has gone from bad to worse under Obama. The downward spiral started under Bush. I honestly have no hope that my future will improve. I have a number of friends in the same situation.
I'm 9 years away from being eligible for Social Security. If Romney gets in, I suspect it will be gone before I can retire.
There isn't a Middle Class now folks. Gays have always seemed to be impervious to the vacillations of the economy, but, after reading some of these posts, apparently not this time around. And, it's only going to get worse for many of you darlings. If you want to see a really enlightening cross section of gay life, visit Palm Springs. Here we have the uber rich, creaky old queens who don't have a clue as to what is happening in the real world of gays. They drive around town in their Bentley converts with their boy toy of the month in tow, who is always uber hot, uber muscular and uber trash. Then you have, what I like to call the "common gays". These are the guys that are living on disablity from AIDS, the young hotties who come here from ButtFuck Arkansas because they have always wanted to "live in the desert",. But, once here, the only jobs are barristas or cleaning rooms in some lice-infested gay "resort".
The last hottie I met who came here had no car and was living in a studio apt....and worked as a waiter at a gay restaurant. Oh please!! When I told him I was not rich, he said he wasn't either but he knew he would be someday. LMFAO. I understand he eventually found a rich daddy in SF and is now gone from PS.
Vote like your life depends on it, Vote for Obama.
Obama is Bush under left cover. There is no difference between the left and the right. Two sides of the same coin.
I am not voting at all. The plans of the power elite are coming to fruition, and Obama's their man to usher it in. Brilliant move, because it shuts down all the liberals who would be screaming their lungs out if a Republican were in office.
Obama says one thing, and does another...almost every time. Just do a little research into his drone war that's killing LOTS of brown people.
Here, I'll give you a start. Liberal blacks not taken in by the Obama charade.
STFU, R23. Pull your head out of the right/left paradigm designed for idiots like you, and look at what's really going on.
R22 = fucking moron
[quote]There is no difference between the left and the right.
When did I hear that before? Oh, yes, it was 2000 when George W. Bush was running against Gore. Do you still believe Bush was the same as Gore?
Obama might not be exactly the man you want. That does not mean he's the same as Romney.
exactly, r26. i actually agree with the gist of what r22 is saying- obama is perpetuating the same policies of enriching the military/industrial/finance complex as bush did, and is taking no steps at all to restore individual liberties and privacy protections, but to say that a vote for obama is the same as romeny is just plain wrong, and you need look no further than the supreme court to prove it.
Well, there's also the fact that Obama isn't all powerful and has to pick and choose his battles, and that most things have to come from Congress...
It always galls me the way everyone is so quick to blame Obama for things that are clearly not his fault, or not within his power to instantly change anyway.
Here in Southern Calif, office support staff are staffed w/ college grads, of any age, young to middle age, for $12-$14/hour. Ironically, hiring a Spanish-speaking housecleaner (legal or not) will cost you about the same or slightly more per hour. Wannabe actresses working as babysitters or nannies, demand $15-21/hr depending if it's a 1 or 2+ kid family. Point being, degreed or not, hourly wages can be the same whether someone has a degree and years or experience or barely finished high school. It's lunacy to expect wages like those to support a middle class lifestyle in a big city.
As far as [R8], don't crow. Tick tock, tick tock. Advertising is known for bloodbaths. Agency loses an account or two and a teams of staff are let go at once, and how many over 50 y o, non-management, are there on staff?
[quote]obama is perpetuating the same policies of enriching the military/industrial/finance complex as bush did,
He doesn't have a choice. None of them do really. They are mere puppets.
This thread has attracted the worst of the worst. Starting with R1, and deteriorating to the illiterate advertising douche reveling in a second increase.
I hope your comeuppance is particularly painful. Because unless you're a politician or billionaire, it's coming. Please post about your unemployment--entertainment like that is hard to come by.
[quote]$20,000 is plenty of money in some areas of the US.
I live in the South and it's still poverty level wages.
OP: Shilling your blog again, I see.
They are even sending McJobs to China and India now. Fast food restaurants have pickup window staff located remotely.
How much will a 4 bedroom home cost when 80% of Americans make $20,000 a year?
R3 and others, if you look at what Bush accomplished in 8 yrs. why do you think it might take 20 yrs to get rid of the middle class? They are in their death throws right now.
If the dumb@sses who consistently vote against their own interests elect Romney, the middle class will be a memory in eight years or less. Especially if Romney gets "a Congress he can work with."
Look at the polls. The very fact that so many people are seriously considering Romney, given his background and given what the Republican Party is unapologetically responsible for,ought to scare you to death.
Its happening all over. My niece in Ireland spent 4 years at university studying animation and made her own little film - but now she is teaching English to students in Poland and Romania, as there is no work for her in Ireland. Her brother doing his exams this week will have to work abroad as well.
Economic decline: it's not just for breakfast anymore!
A time of darkness
[quote]$20,000 is plenty of money in some areas of the US. Maybe not NYC, but it's probably not too bad if you live in the south.
I live in a town where you can buy a well-maintained two-bedroom, two-bath vintage 1,200-square-foot house in a pretty, tree-lined neighborhood for less than $60K.
And $20K is enough for a single person who is frugal to appear to be middle-class, though it will be a struggle and will often require a roommate to help pay the mortgage.
But a $20,000 job (basically $10 an hour) is very hard to find, as the home-health-aide positions OP talks about pay minimum wage ($7.25 an hour) here.
It's extremely difficult to find a job that pays more than $8.50 or $9.
Just to keep things in perspective, the editor of the local newspaper makes $11 an hour, retail store managers make $9, meter readers and dispatchers for the police department make $10.
So it's not much better in the south. Yes, it's cheaper here, but wages are lower and people often have to drive 50 miles each way to work, because they live in small cities that used to have a couple of manufacturing plants that provided plenty of jobs, as well as auxiliary jobs -- restaurants, locally owned stores, lawn-care businesses, etc.
Now those jobs are gone, and people can't afford to move closer to a job in a nearby city, because there's no one to buy their houses and there's no guarantee that even if they move to the larger and more-expensive city, they won't lose the new job, too.
Thanks for the clear-headed response
A lot of the jobs and degrees that presented an opportunity to move into the middle class are now being outsourced to countries with cheaper labor. It's causing depressed wages in many formerly 'hot' industries.
A lot of these professional jobs are now hemorrhaging jobs. I work in the legal field, and a lot of experienced, strong attorneys that were making those six figure salaries ten years ago are getting hit with a rude awakening when their firms closed shop, they were down sized or they are finding that their experience is now being viewed as a negative during their job search. Those six figure jobs are still around (three out of the ten friends I know that are attorneys earn over $100k, but the other seven are under-employed making less than I do as a senior paralegal), but not enough of them to justify spending $150k to attend law school. This has been quietly going on for ten or so years, but it's only recently been hitting the headlines.
But there are many aspects of this problem, and in some ways, the President is the least important part of the system. An overall down market, school's tuition setting policies and gaming the federal scholarship system are major issues that contributed to a depression of wages compared to high debt all around.
the republican agenda at work...eliminate all good paying jobs; create slave labor for health benefits...the big profit for the .01%
It's like the cartoons when we were kids; evil man wants to rule the world...MINE ALL MINE, MINE!!!!
R42 hit on the point that jobs requiring college education are the ones being outsourced....hence getting a college education is not any solution. The lack of jobs in America has nothing to do with lack of education.
America is FLOODED with unemployed college grads right now.
As long as Republicans keep getting elected to public office and dominating (majorities_ legislatures- yes- the middle class will shrink.
Therefore- vote Democrat or progressive.
If you think it makes no difference, you could not be more wrong.
Isn't OP's apocryphal friend with the street sweeping business middle class? Or did he enter the upper class when he did an IPO of his match girl business?
The national Business Roundtable along with the Chamber of Commerce bow have both announced that they're "very concerned" with the economy, and have little confidence it will improve, so they are not doing any hiring or spending the stockpile of capital they have amassed.
Ask yourself, "Who benefits" from this short term strategy? Barack Obama or Mitt Romney.
This is the private sector/busness community's version of the "Just say no!" Congressional strategy embraced with such effectivenss by our Tea Party Congress.
How does it make you feel to know that passing Obama's recommended tax plan to get the wealthiest to pay their fair share, and passing a jobs bill that would create jobs to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, putting more teachers and police officers back on the job, would pretty much resolve a lot of deficit-related, economic woes?
It would give people confidence to buy homes & cars, and purchase goods & services they cannot now afford. It would revitalize our economy. It would ease the suffering and uncertainty of ordinary people who can't put a freeze on paying their bills.
The Plutocrats cry alligator tears over "uncertainty" in the economy:
"Boo-hoo. We can't hire. We HAVE to sit on our billions. If you'd just vote for Romney, well, we think we can, maybe, you know, hire again."
What contempt they have for us. Not only have we allowed them to install a plutocracy, they insist on mockery and grinding their heel into us by asserting false concern about "uncertainty."
We're fucked, allright. The wealthy have made it so their are no solutions ; he least they could do is spare us their bullshit.
oops- "..the least they could do..."
[quote]Gays have always seemed to be impervious to the vacillations of the economy, but, after reading some of these posts, apparently not this time around.
Some of us have something called "The Smart Gene." Others have "The Organizational Gene" and others still have "The Creative Gene." Most do not have "The Breeding Gene" or "The Household Gene."
Once, having one or all these traits was a sure mark that work would be an area of honor and achievement, but now that career success has nothing to do with intelligence, production of quality, or producing much at all except good feelings in co-workers, Gays join other "eccentrics" in a vast ocean of Deep Shit.
So what happens to the "Smart" Gene when you grow up with a Welfare dependent single mom?
Genetics does not veto social economic background.
Whatever you're trying to imply, R51, is irrelevant and you know it.
Welfare hasn't existed since the Clinton years and you know it.
Besides, in the aftermath of Bush's assault on the economy, people don't have to be single to need help. More than half of Wal-Mart employees (many of them college graduates) need food stamps to feed their families.
And with a two bedroom apartment in even the lowest priced real-estate markets in the country requiring approximately 70 hours a month of minimum wage income, even married people who are careful with their money can find themselves unable to pay for the basics required to live a decent life.
So stop with the welfare queen bit. It wasn't true when Ronald Reagan used it and it's even less true now.
Here's something we CAN do. Every single member of the House of Representatives - the Tea Party majority House of Representatives, is up for re-election. If enough people show up at campaign events for all incumbent members of Congress,not just Tea party, but all, and if they get enough calls, if they get embarrassed and scared they might lose, maybe we can pressure them into passing something.
If not, we can certainly support and vote for their opponent and keep shining a light on their ignorance in public. This can't be a one shot thing. It needs to be sustained. If we don't pressure Congress we deserve everything we get.
We may not be able to embarrass a corporation, but we sure as hell can do something about our elected representatives. If at first we don't succeeed we keep trying. Just like the damned Tea Party.
The only thing that will stop this, is to eliminate all Corporate Political contributions and limit contributions from wealthy donors. Anything else is semantics, Republican Semantics and Democratic Semantics. Both will always side with the Corporations until these types of campaign contributions are stopped.
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with R5 and R16: it is ALL about aiming for a job in one of the relatively small number of fields that's growing these days. Have any of you bitches been to a hospital lately? Noticed that a sizable number of RN jobs are being held by foreign nationals? (legal ones, that is) That's because there is a HUGE SHORTAGE in the American nursing-staff arena. Btw I don't mean low-paying home health aide jobs; I mean actual RNs, a position that really isn't all that hard to obtain (certainly not compared to med school) that pays very well even for newcomers.
If you're in college, study engineering or computer science and learn the languages now being used to program the Web and mobile apps (Flash, Ruby, HTML5, etc.), and you are almost literally GUARANTEED a job straight out of college. I know one recent grad who's been employed barely a year and is already making $120K as a software engineer (and gets calls from headhunters at least 2-3x/week with temptations to switch- he's gotten two large raises already to entice him away from leaving).
Despite rumors to the contrary, recent MBA and law grads aren't having problems finding jobs, either -- as long as they attended at least a decent program and finished in the top quarter of their class. Yes, you'll rack up a fuckload of student loans going to either unless you have rich parents, but OTOH you should be able to pay them off much quicker than most, at least if you take a corporate job instead of working as an ADA or something.
You're only screwed if you cling to the past and/or blame all your woes on politics without actually trying to *do* something tangible to improve your station.
GOP members and their supporters have dibs on the good jobs that pay gazillion dollars. The rest can fight over the crumbs.
A lot of gays seem to have escaped the current economic mess that we are in. But, I suspect that in the future, many more of us will be caught up in no jobs, loss of our homes through foreclosure, living hand to mouth. This is all NOT over by a long shot. There is much more horrifying things on the horizon for American gays. Mark my words. And, NEITHER candidate has the abilities to fix...America. That's the totally shitty scary part.
(R43) LOL. Hidla Solis, the best Sec. of Labor Mexico has ever had, has crowed about the fact that 60% of the new, low paying jobs are going to .....yup...latinos!!!!!
So, um, how is this the Republican's fault?
[quote] A lot of gays seem to have escaped the current economic mess that we are in.
Where did you get that idea?
I'm posting this link in as many places as I can. This boycott is something we can support and help to grow. This is something they will understand. If you or anyone you know has an impact or can affect corporate pruchasing,keep trying to get them to support the boycott.
Too late for Boycotts. Need something much, much stronger now.
It's not a true revolution until the portable guillotines are pulled into place along Wall Street and Pennysvania Avenue and our "leaders" and the banksters are dragged kicking and screaming to their bloody doom. Unless heads start rolling, this is all smoke and mirrors by the "revolutionsists" among us. Talk is fucking cheap.
M. Antoinette, Paris
Could it be that high taxes, oppressive oversight and insane regulations are making companies move outside the US & EU?
Why are Lithuainia, Nigeria, and Mongolia (all three have small governments, little regulation and low taxes) growing ten times faster than their heavily taxed and regulated peers?
People really should start bringing giant (fake ) guillotines to Wall Street just to make a point.
Globalism - the race to the bottom
Why fake, R64?
[quote]They are even sending McJobs to China and India now. Fast food restaurants have pickup window staff located remotely.
I'm too thick to understand how this works.
[quote]Could it be that high taxes, oppressive oversight and insane regulations are making companies move outside the US & EU?
In a word, no, which is why you couldn't come up with any actual data to back up that silly assertion.
This place is dead because of primetime.
Hi R20 aka the SF/PS/Annoying Acronyms Troll!
[quote] Could it be that high taxes, oppressive oversight and insane regulations are making companies move outside the US & EU?
No, its our insanely highly regulated wage structure. If labor in the U.S. made 80 cents an hour like in China then our economy would soar!
It kills me when people suggest that Bush 2.0 is a war criminal who should be tried at The Hague, and that justice would be served if Cheney, Condi, Wolfie, etc. were found guilty and isolated from normal humans for the rest of their natural lives (a position I fully support) but refuse to admit that the Obama admin's policies have been just as bad, and instead laud him as the second FDR (another war criminal, but that's another story) or JFK (the last truly patriotic president of the later US empire).
Bush illegally, and with malice aforethought, invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama has escalated the latter and still occupies the former. Bush signed the PATRIOT (sic) Act and Obama signed the NDAA, which allows him to kill any "enemy combatant" (even US citizens living in the US who have never been accused, charged or tried for any crime) and has already used it to kill a US "terrorist" overseas.
How can a person reconcile those two thoughts (Bush=Evil, Obama=Good) when the facts are so straightforward?
I guess I've just never been able to say "hey, he's good on this thing I like, so I'll overlook this bad thing that doesn't affect me personally" and sell my soul for some politician.
[quote]has already used it to kill a US "terrorist" overseas.
Why are you using quote marks around terrorist? Anwar al Awlaki declared war on the U.S. He was part of Al Qaeda. He advocated jihad against the United States. You wreck your credibility with that grammatical stunt.
R22, I'm glad that a lot of blacks are waking up to the mendacity of many of their soi disant "leaders" and their cult of the "victim of racism". The Internet has radically altered the way young people view politics, politicians, and their "spokesmen".
Is the legal system stacked against young black men? Yes.
Are young black men more likely to be involved in violence? Yes.
Does the "war on drugs" exacerbate this? Yes.
Does an antiquated and failing system of schools (especially in inner cities) have dangerous long term consequences? Yes.
Does 50 years of growing dependence on government assistance by a large minority of black families (exacerbated by the fact that getting married could reduce benefits) have anything to do with all of the above? Yes.
Is the bureaucracy nimble or intelligent enough to respond to the opportunities presented for education, road systems, record keeping and document retrieval, etc. or more importantly to changing morals, alternatives to the propaganda, anonymous digital currency, "Systeme D" and a populace that documents their every move? Yes, thank God!
More and more, every day, people are starting to wake up to the alternatives to inefficient, incompetent and invasive nature of bureaucracy and monopoly centralized omnipotent government.
I meant to say "No, Thank God" to that last question.
The bureaucracy is an antiquated and evil beast that will not last much longer.
R63, why don't you move to one of those shithole countries since you clearly hate America?
R73...because the MSM has successfully turned politics into a football game where people swear allegiances to teams and then back those teams no matter what they do. Well, as long as they win. It's all about winning now. Not ethics, not actions. President Obama has been extremely conservative in many ways yet liberals defend him because he's the Democrat and that's their team. Whereas old school liberals like you and I just wonder how this country will survive the fact that virtually all politicians are either mid-right or far-right.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
First, it's never to late for a boycott. You're talking to an eldergay (42)who's mother boycotted grapes for years. We supported the Farm Workers.
Secondly, I think the best thing we can do no matter what the outcome, is get active and stay active. If we're ever going to reclaim the high ground we need to take a page out of the Tea Party playbook and keep raising hell.
I just e-mailed my Congressman to insist he publically condemn Daryl Issa for ignoring the President's claim of Executive Privilege.
I've contacted many members of both houses condemning the Food Stamp cuts.
In my state we're laying off teachers, policemen, and administrative workers, our neighbors, more than two thousand more than we already laid off, because the state & local governments are in trouble.
This further weakens our communities. These people won't be able to find jobs and they will lose their homes. They won't buy cars either. No shopping at the Mall.
If we allow Congress to roll back healthcare reform, cut food stamps, eliminate or cut unemployment benefits, insist that secretaries pay more taxes then billionaires,and block any kind of financial reforms, we're screwed.
The true game plan is to bring government to it's knees at every level. We will still pay. Someone always has to pay. What trickles down is the bill. Remember the firefighters who sat and let a house burn, because the guy didb't pay his fees?
They can "outsource" as much as they like, then do independent contractors, and set up authorities to "iversee" service delivery, and collect "fess." We'll never be able to hold anyone to account because we won't know whose in charge. It's Corporate fascism.
We have to fight it. No way can we allow them to roll back our rights,to appoint Supreme court justices, to turn us into a third tier country.
The power to stop this is in our hands. If Romney wins, it's because we allowed it to happen. That is something I refuse to contemplate.
Good point, R77. He won't because he is full of shit and knows they are shithole countries.
R73 is spot on.
And of course if you say anything criticizing Obama on this board you are labeled a "freeper".
If Romney wins they'll privatize everything. Social Security will be gone. The healthcare industry is fighting Obamacare. So if you're in your 40's prepare to work until your at least 75. If you can find a job. Of course we're all aspiring entrpeneurs in America. We are a nation of cottage industries.
Oh, I forgot. Take lots of vitamins, exercise and grow your own garden veggies. But whatever you do, don't get sick. Pray no one you care about gets sick.
[quote]Obama is Bush under left cover. There is no difference
Unlike Obama, Dubya advocated passing an amendment to the constitution denying rights to gay people. But you str8 freepers don't want to talk about that do you R22, etc.?
I'm always amazed that people are distracted by the perceived personalities of the presidents. It really doesn't matter who is in power, Bush, Obama, etc. Yes, Obama and the Dems are better on some issues, but in terms of big issues like this thread - the economic system, they are basically the same. Globalism has the real power - and we don't see the leaders.
I have no formal education. I dropped out of HS in 1978 at age 16 and started working as a bellman in a small hotel in the Midwest. I worked my way up to a management position and at 20, I was making around 7.00 an hour. I was in the closet, married, and raised two daughters on a very modest salary. In ’98, I filed for divorce and moved to Boston and basically reinvented myself. I took an admin job that paid 30K. My next two jobs were 37K and 40K. I’ve learned a lot along the way, taken a few courses here and there and now work for a software company and make just over 80K. I hear many younger people, including some relatives, complaining about how hard it is to find work. I just don’t understand why, even with a college education, young people refuse to take jobs they feel are beneath them. It may not be your dream job, but it’s a start and if you put something into it, you’ll likely get something out of it. It’s not just what you know, or just who you know, but a combination of both and how you handle it that determines your success.
r73 and r82, so I trust you'll be voting for Romney?
C'mon. Tip that hand.
R86: You should do some research into what is called the JD Scam. Basically you have highly intelligent and motivated law school graduates (who are 100k-150k in debt) begging to work at coffee shops, as trash collectors and anything to bring in some income. They are generally refused since they are 'over qualified'.
People do take what they can get, but the issue is not only do they need to lie about their biggest assets (experience and education), but they also have a black hole on their resume from when they were attending school and also some of the minimum wage jobs they can get don't allow them to make payments on their student loans leading to defaults.
I'm glad it worked out for you, but you need to read more accounts of senior level paralegals, mid level managers and recent college graduates who are desperate for work, sending out hundreds of resumes and putting in applications for McDonalds or Starbucks, before you assume that young people or people out of work won't take what they can get. Some of these people have families, and while you could live on $7 an hour years ago, it's harder to do so in these days with the cost of living increasing and hours being cut. It's a trickle down effect: if you have debt you can't pay off due to your salary, your credit goes down, if your credit goes down, you can't purchase a house, car or restructure a loan, if you can't do any of those things, it is harder to create a stable home for a family (even renting apartments or getting certain jobs are subject to credit review), you can't discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy, so the interest would grow and no bank really cares that you are working a minimum wage job and can't pay them $500 a month and survive.
I have a personal stake in this, since my mother was a senior paralegal who worked through the ranks and raised three children as a single mother who was downsized seven years ago and the only thing she can find is a job as a substitute teacher, which doesn't pay the mortgage. When she was applying to new jobs, she couldn't just drop her law firm experience because it would leave a gaping decade-long hole in it since that was her work for most of her adult life. Other senior level paralegals have the same problems after the law firms started to go bust.
The whole idea that 'people just aren't taking what they can get so they can work their way up' is just ignoring the fact that many of these markets are drying up, certain positions are no longer in existence or as simple as blaming the victim for being lazy, which couldn't be further from the truth.
[quote]so I trust you'll be voting for Romney?
No, I would never vote for a Republican. Never have. I'll either hold my nose and vote for Obama or I'll stay home.
There are major differences between the candidates, and between Obama and Bush. Anyone who lulls you with that garbage, or promotes themselves as a "disgruntled, disappointed, dissatisfied" leftie, is probably working for Karl Rove.
That's part of the strategy. Exploit the left's "disappointment." You have no idea what your talking about if you say they're the same, and you'll pay a much higher price than you can imagine if Romney wins.
He's an empty suit shilling for the Neo Cons. He'll give them foreign policy, they'll give him Domestic. And both will give us sh!t.They will dismantle government as we know it, and privatize everything.
So get ready to deal with Haliburton's domestic policy and Blackwater mercenaries. Police protection is only one of the local services they'll privatize.
Who the fuck is paying street sweepers, OP?
I haven't seen a street sweeper in 30 years. The town where i grew up used to have street sweeping trucks but got rid of them because people were complaining about their taxes. The town sure as hell didn't hire private sweeping companies after that.
Where I live now, there is no such thing as a street sweeper and I live in a luxury resort area. You want your street sweeped, you sweep it yourself or pay a landscaper to get Mexican guys to use brooms.
PhDs applying to sweep streets my ass.
Sorry, nice try R90 - but not on Karl Rove's payroll.
Are you saying it's not possible to disagree with Obama on anything?
"Are you saying it's not possible to disagree with Obama on anything?"
You are dense. That's not what r90 is saying at all. What a stupid distillation of the points he/she made.
And if you don't see for yourself what's at stake this election, and feel absolutely compelled to vote regardless of the issues you have with Obama, then you are most definitely a complete fucking idiot.
Or you're just lying through your teeth and are indeed a fag neo-con tool troll.
I personally would bet on the latter.
R82/R92I disagree with Obama on somethings, but there is no way I am not voting for him, and there is no way I will allow anyone to bullsh!t me into believing He & the Dems are the same as Romney & the GOP. Don't even go there.
And if you aren't working for Rove you should be, he's rolling in money, and your tired 3D whining(disappointed, dissatisfied, disgruntled) is exactly what they're counting on. People like you are their new best friends.
With little effort on their part, you're cooperating with their strategy.
I will also say what I always say. I'm sick and tired of hearing people complain when they do nothing. Voting is the beginning, not the end of your responsibility. The Tea Party should be an example to us all.
Nothing Obama has done would justify not voting for him, especially when you fully appreciate what's at stake and who he's running against.
I personally feel like anyone who calls themselves a Republican is despicable. They have no standing with me, nor will they ever again. But that's just me.
And if you don't see how there is really only one party in this country, you are blind.
*swoon* at r90/94
The GOP is spending a lot of money on a key part of their strategy of voter suppression. They are preparing to challenge voters at the polls and "disallow" ballots they question.
If you decide not to vote at all, you will save them a lot of money.You can self-suppress.
Getting back to OP's issue...Too many people went to college and then got advanced degress thinking that the job market would welcome them with open arms. The job market has been tough for MANY years and these coillege students were stupid to think that they could just get a degree and then the money would just be thrown their way.
I got into the workforce in the early 1970s when there was a HUGE recession. I had no college at all and took a $80 a week office job at the near bottom of the job grade list. I was able to work my way up with hard work. Just because someone get a college degree doesn't mean that they don't have to work any more at getting - or keeping - a job. It never did!
I also don't know many people who are out of work or complaining about the work they do have. Yes, I know there are many out there who have lost their jobs, but the unemployment problem can be very local/regional and there are many places in the country where unemployment and finding work is not as big as an issue. I don't see gloom and doom - but I can see where graduates who made bad choices with their education and had expectations that were to high would.
And just for a point of reference - I'm from Ohio, which is seeing a lot of job growth.
Corporations are people, my friend.
I've read this whole thread, and I have to wonder if most of the replies are from trolls, otherwise, I am very disturbed by a lack of understanding and compassion among my peers.
There is an RN shortage because there is also a shortage of spots in nursing programs. My partner has excellent grades, and a BA in Chemistry, with excellent grades, but he has been waiting for 2 years to get into a nursing program.
I went to an excellent school, got a degree, got a job, everything was great, salary rising, but, then, after 12 years of service, my company went offshore, and even the developers were let go.
I live in Portland, Or., and do not tell me 20K is livable, unless you want a flophouse with 7 other people. One cannot get even a crap condo for under 100K, and rents have not gone down. This is the city with the highest rate of educated people, per capita, and underemployment is rampant. I'd move, but I bought my house before the prices were insane, and I've spent over a decade on my garden.
R100 -- 15 years ago, people could walk into Nursing programs (and did) and immigrant nurses had no trouble finding good jobs that paid American wages.
Now, with so many seeing nursing school as a way out of unemployment, those programs have been swamped. Even those who manage to get in, get through, and graduate, are having problems locating fairly paid jobs with all the new immigrant nurses willing to work for far less.
Besides nursing and computer software work, what needed work is out there for those who want to maintain or earn a middle-class lifestyle?
Ohio post-er, what is the job growth coming from in your area?
I know too many mid-40s, early 50s men and women discarded from their jobs in education, marketing, journalism, music, etc and who are far too young to retire, who can't live on minimum wage jobs -- and if they have any kids, support a family.
We can't all open cupcake shops.
Once everyone is making minimum wage, they will lower the minimum wage, arguing it is too high.
"There is an RN shortage because there is also a shortage of spots in nursing programs. My partner has excellent grades, and a BA in Chemistry, with excellent grades, but he has been waiting for 2 years to get into a nursing program."
Part of the problem is the shortage of Drs (med school is nice, but the practical barriers are encouraging many young PITs to look for practices in Costa Rica, Singapore, Indonesia, etc.) based on insane rules by the AMA, the high cost of malpractice insurance, the bureaucracy that comes with running a practice (80%+ of support staff time is filling out forms to meet various government requirements, and that includes nurses doing half the work) and the poor payment practices of Medicare. I'm not even going to start with the insane laws the insurance lobby has crafted to get the ACA passed.
There is an RN shortage because there is also a shortage of spots in nursing programs. My partner has excellent grades, and a BA in Chemistry, with excellent grades, but he has been waiting for 2 years to get into a nursing program.
"I went to an excellent school, got a degree, got a job, everything was great, salary rising, but, then, after 12 years of service, my company went offshore, and even the developers were let go."
You're shocked? If other countries have a legal system that makes it easier and cheaper to run a business then why not move?
Ask yourself this question- if you knew you could move to Georgia (in the US, not Eurasia) and make enough money to move your friends and family, would you do it?
Now, I know corporations aren't people. They artificial entities, created by The Bureaucracy in order to shield the wealth of The Elite from the vicissitudes of their mad scheme to control money via interest rates and paper...but, really, would you stay poor in California or move to Vermont?
I agree, R103. They won't be happy until we are all on some garbage dump, starving and fighting for scraps.
Sorry, I won't clean bedpans.
from  would you stay poor in California or move to Vermont?
The populations of the two states prove that millions would rather stay poor in California than move to Vermont.
A friend in TX who moved from San Diego wonders why more people (ie. friends and family) won't move to TX. Well, because her husband doesn't have a job after 3 years there. She is supporting the family in a commission-only sales job, not a salaried position. How many people want to start over in a new state in mid-life without a job waiting for them? Without contacts? Extended family support system? Even the prospect of buying a house at 1/3 the price doesn't move people to action to move away from the familiar and the exhorbitant CA.
R107, did you read the post @ R104? I'm speaking HYPOTHETICALLY of moving from one place to another, and applying it from big corporations to individuals.
If you were able to move from a place where you would make less money to a place where you could make much more (due to the lower regulatory burdens, lower taxes, more competitive labor markets, better business environment, more stable banking system) then only a fool would stay unless personal relationships kept them at "home". That is why big corps (and smart individuals) are moving overseas to start businesses.
Just FYI, r104/107 is the freeper who wants to abolish all regulators too (see also the "All Regulators are Corrupt" thread).
WE are not screwed. YOU may be but don't paint me and other who were smart enough to get a recession proof job, with that brush.
My mother used to say, when you have a problem you can bitch and moan or you can actually DO something about it.
Remember when Brian the dog on The Family Guy said, "If you don't like it, go on the Internet and complain," he was being sarcastic.
Americans have been warned about the dangers of electing Republicans for a long time, and they went ahead and did it again in 2010.
As Aaron Sorkin said recently, Americans are ignorant compared to those in other Western countries who know better.
R111, the US education system is such shite it's a wonder public school kids know how to wipe their ass. Sorkin should know.
If you think Dems would be better than Reps, you haven't been paying attention- or you're too ignorant to understand that the differences are superficial while the similarities- foreign policy, bank bailouts, corporate subsidies, serial violations of our civil liberties- are identical.
Reps are just Dems in sheepskin.
R112, if you think Dems are no different then Reps, you haven't been paying attention, or you're too ignorant to understand the deep and profound differences that affect millions of people directly.
You're a fucking idiot and a tool. Shut up you ignorant cunt, because your very existence in this thread makes the world more stupid.
It's just getting worse.
Credit expansion is the governments foremost tool in their struggle against the market economy. In their hands it is the magic wand designed to conjure away the scarcity of capital goods, to lower the rate of interest or to abolish it altogether, to finance lavish government spending, to expropriate the capitalists, to contrive everlasting booms, and to make everybody prosperous.
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
This first stage of the inflationary process may last for many years. While it lasts, the prices of many goods and services are not yet adjusted to the altered money relation. There are still people in the country who have not yet become aware of the fact that they are confronted with a price revolution which will finally result in a considerable rise of all prices, although the extent of this rise will not be the same in the various commodities and services. These people still believe that prices one day will drop. Waiting for this day, they restrict their purchases and concomitantly increase their cash holdings. As long as such ideas are still held by public opinion, it is not yet too late for the government to abandon its inflationary policy.
But then, finally, the masses wake up. They become suddenly aware of the fact that inflation is a deliberate policy and will go on endlessly. A breakdown occurs. The crack-up boom appears. Everybody is anxious to swap his money against 'real' goods, no matter whether he needs them or not, no matter how much money he has to pay for them. Within a very short time, within a few weeks or even days, the things which were used as money are no longer used as media of exchange. They become scrap paper. Nobody wants to give away anything against them.
It was this that happened with the Continental currency in America in 1781, with the French mandats territoriaux in 1796, and with the German mark in 1923. It will happen again whenever the same conditions appear. If a thing has to be used as a medium of exchange, public opinion must not believe that the quantity of this thing will increase beyond all bounds. Inflation is a policy that cannot last.
It looks like the money Bernanke has printed is starting to flow. Rents are up. Home prices are up. Salaries are rising.
Too bad the poor are still fucked. Once Bernanke quits printing, the economy will collapse again, and it will NOT BE PRETTY!
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
We are switching to the new platform for The DataLounge this weekend. All of our mobile users have been using it for over a week and all first time users have been using it for about a month - which adds up to well over one million users. So we're ready to end this phase of the testing and move everybody to the new site. (more)
And yes, we've changed the look and some of how it operates.
Yes, we know you just *hate* it in well in advance.
Yes, we know we suck.
Yes, we are the biggest suckers that ever sucked.
But it was time for a change and with the huge shift to mobile it was long overdue. We've taken this opportunity not only to update the look but also make major changes under the hood (or "bonnet" if you're either British or pretentious or both). And we have to prepare for 2016 - a presidential election year where we can normally expect to see a 60% jump in traffic (yes, we've seen 5 presidential elections so far…Christ we're old).
The site has a bunch - nay, plethora - of new features which will make the site more usable: better search, the ability to ignore posters and threads, see link previews, to pick up a thread where you left off, spam and malware filtering and more.
If you want you can go explore and see for yourself, Click here.
And while running the tests we've noticed two interesting reactions to the new system - people are spending more time on the site and more people that come stay around longer and look at more stuff. Both good things. Yay!
Possibly we've not slain all the dragons and there will be issues that come up during the switchover. There's a help button in the lower right hand corner of the page which you can use to send us bug reports.
Please include as much information about the hardware (PC, Mac, Tablet, Phone etc), operating system (Windows, Mac OS, Android, iOS etc) and browser (Chrome, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer etc) that you are using as possible to help us replicate and fix the problem.
Please note that complaints about colors, fonts, icons and the like are not "bugs" - they are design choices that we've made and we expect one or two cases of world-class bitching. But they won't actually cause headaches, scurvy, heart attacks, Restless Leg Syndrome, Morgellon's Disease or the vapors (but have your smelling salts at hand just in case).
Talking to DataLounge servers. Please wait a moment...