"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.
But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.
He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.
But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.
more at link
You are obviously forgetting Tail Gunner Joe Biden. Never in the history of politics has a candidates lack of military background during the height of Vietnam (when Delaware was pulling draftees out of college) received LESS scrutiny. Then he tries to make bales of political hay out of his son having the safest job in Iraq. Just try it, Tail Gunner Joe!
At the same time Romney was off in France, Joe Biden was in law school at Syracuse, not the University of Delaware. By the time he was finished with law school, his late wife Neilia was pregnant with their son Beau.
I didn't think they drafted married fathers at that point, but maybe I'm wrong.
The Voice of the Night
R2, it depended on the state.
Can't wait to see the rightwing, whiny assholes who mocked John Kerry's service attempt to dismiss this, like they did with Dubya.
Yeah, they really love the troops... unless those troops are Dems, then it's "Fuck your service!"
R2, Biden's state of residence was Delaware. Was he the only person to get a wife pregnant to avoid the draft?
R6, I'm sure you thought you were brilliant with that one, but let me help you out since no one is surprised that you missed the point:
You see, genius, the reason it's more of an issue when a Republican hasn't served or dodged the draft is because it seems that Republican draft dodgers like wars a lot more than Dems.
Clinton the "draft dodger" didn't start an Iraq war, now did he? No, he maintained a no fly zone. Clinton sent troops into Bosnia. How many troops died?
You see, sweetheart, Bush and his PNAC warmongers never served in the military. They subscribe to Kissinger's beliefs on military men, so they have no conscience. They don't care about the lives taken in war. They don't care about the consequences. It's quite brave to use the WWE line "Bring it on!" when you're surrounded by security.
Fast-forward to the present: Who is attempting to push for war with Iran? Obama or Mitt?
Are you also too stupid to understand why there's a difference between newt and Clinton when it comes to infidelity or should I explain that one to you as well... because hasn't already been explained a million times.
"Thank you for saving me from the draft". Oh wait, that was Bill Clinton.
Romney's military record is not relevant. It may even be a blind alley served up by the Right. Romney's business record, and his role as a high official in the Mormon Church, and the Mormon Church's role in politics, and the money behind Romney are all legitimate issues.
Being a damned missionary to dodge the draft is not important. If the blatant AWOL status, and the special favors done for Bush in the Nationa Guard didn't phase people, why do you think this will?
Rove is good at this crap. These are people who can get you to believe Dick Cheney, a true draft dodger, and ditto George W. Bush, (son of a real war hero) and the Republican Party as a whole, have a premium, a monopoly on Patriotism.
These are the people who allowed Walter Reed Army Hospital to become a filthy disgraceful mess. They shamefully underfunded the VA, did not provide medical benefits and psychological services to veterans, would not give them proper equipment to fight with, stripped them of benefits, and forced them and their families to live lives of abject poverty on army bases.
They don't care about the military. They care about Defense contracts, not soldiers. When they scream about budget cuts in the Defense department, they're really screaming about their cronies. That distinction is never effectly drawn.
And why bother. Scientific studies have shown that when you present someone with facts to refute their position, they will reject the facts and hang on to their erroneous opinions.
R9, I beat you to it and explained the difference.
If a person hasn't been in the military, then they should (at the very least) have more of a conscience when it comes to deciding to start wars and sending kids to die, esp. for a war based on LIES.
How many soldiers are dead due to wars started by Clinton?
You guys are so simplistic in your logic it gives me a headache.
When you haven't served, you take EXTRA PRECAUTION. Chickenhawks send kids to die in their wars and missions.
Dubya went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard. To this day, Dubya is a military deserter. He has no Honorable Discharge and all his military records of service (DD-214) are missing from his file folder, his unit's folder, the National Guard folder, the Pentagon, and the National Records Center.
Obama was 15 when Vietnam ended. It is a huge issue to those who were of age during the period. Wait until the pics of Romney's French digs hit the media--probably sometime in early October.
The Republican apologists on this thread can fuck off. Romney deserves to be torn to shreds for being pro-Vietnam War and then hiding out in France and not serving.
R6 is clearly an idiot since he appears not to realize that Obama was a boy at the time.
And R9 is also an ass for bringing up Bill Cliinton. Clinton has nothing to do with this. It's about Romney. And was Clinton pro-Vietnam? Because that's the issue here.
Obama was 12 when the US got of Vietnam. There were no major wars at the time Obama was 18-26. Romney was prime Vietnam age.
Proper Quakers (any one of the three different branches, if you will) or men brought to the faith through the light of pacifism had a moral right to not serve in Vietnam if they were men of draft age. Hell, I was not around then, but I have heard that there were even some men who even up and converted to the Society of Friends to get out of the draft and I cannot blame them because Vietnam was a mindless war.
But, hell! The Mormons could go for broke until they pruned back their "religious exemptions" and shit? Fuck that! They had pull like that even back then?
I could spit nails now and am sorry for ranting.
Honestly, I wish military service was not an issue for either party. Period. There is far too much reverence for the military in this country.
Draft Doger, animal abuser, bully, and Zodiac Killer.
Mitt Romney, his father, George Romney and Mitt's five sons have never served in the military.
Granted Barack Obama hasn't either, but he also wasn't old enough dduring the Vietnam War. However, the Romneys all came of age during WWII, the Vietnam War and the Gulf War. And none served.
Romney's sons are younger than Obama, 19
R20. A couple of Mitt Romney's sons could have signed up for the Gulf War in 1991 (when they were old enough) or for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that have been going on for the past decade...when thousands of other patriotic Americans felt compelled to join the service.
Just sayin.' The Romneys don't serve--and didn't even do so during WWII when 75 percent of eligible males served in some capacity. And Mitt himself got four deferments in five years when he was eligible to serve during the Vietnam War. Can you say, he did his best to dodge the war?
We don't serve in the military anymore. We get stupid, poor people to do it for us, like we get them to do everything else.
And then get richer ourselves profiting from it.
Dick Cheney, Chickenshittiest
The issue isn't just whether you serve. I don't have a problem with people dodging Vietnam since it was a fake war by the military-industrial complex to slaughter innocent Vietnamese and kill thousands of Americans while they were at it.
But the point is that Romney was PRO-Vietnam. He attended rallies supporting the War and argued in favor of men going over there and then never went himself. THAT'S the issue.
If this is the worst you've got on Romney, Obama is toast.
R25, this alone should be enough to kill Romney's chances.
John Kerry served. George Bush dodged. And yet the slimy GOP portrayed Kerry as the unpatriotic one.
True, R27. But whose fault was that?
The Democrats. As usual, they played nice and didn't fight back. If you don't fight back against the Republicans, you get burned.
Romney has never followed an order in his life. He gives orders, he doesn't take them.
R28. Whose fault? Well, the Dems but also the dumb as rocks American people for buying into Karl Rove's scorched earth policy regarding Kerry's medal-winning Vietnam service and Bush's lying about his National Guard service. But that's why I called the GOP, slimy.
This especially applies to the idiot bigots in Ohio, who bought into Rove's scary tactics slamming gay marriage in 2004 that gave Bush the win.
But let's not get sidetracked. Nobody in Romney's family including him, his sons and his father ever served in any branch of the military--and they were all of age during the corresponding wars.
I'm in the military and an Afghanistan vet.
I want to vomit whenever I hear Romney chastise Obama's foreign policy record, mainly because no Romney (which includes him, his sons, his uncles, his father, his grandfathers, his great grandfathers) has served in the military.
Look, you ignorant home-schooled Republicans:
It's the HYPOCRISY and COWARDICE, stupids!
War-mongering rah-rah boys like to send OTHER men (and women) to their DEATHS in order to profiteer.
Cheney wins, though, with FIVE deferments.
It's hilarious that people like Romney with no credibility and no authority speak about having credibility and authority.
Only fools are impressed by guys like Romney.
What is [childish epithet posted by a republican tool]'s military record???
Oh yeah, that march of John Phillip Sousa's that MO works out to every morning.
Does it really matter whether a candidate has been in the military girls???
So how many of YOU have served your country?
And blowing some Navy guys while they were in port does NOT count darlings............
yeah, and we had an iraq war that the GOP flogged mercilessly. plugg, prigg, phlegm, slag and crack romney coulda signed up for THAT.
He WILL be your next POTUS....you do realize this don't you?
But, ladies, you lived through 8 years of Bush and are still here wanking off to pictures of dead gay porn stars...so, what's to worry about?
[childish epithet posted by a republican tool] is not going to be re-elected after his infamous announcement last Friday that some illegals will no longer be deported. He has totally, now, disenfrancised the Middle Class, the Poor and his black supporters. The only thing that is important to him now are the self-inflicted "issues" that illegals have now that most Americans are fed up with their whining and name calling. He just added almost one million MORE unemployed illegals to the millions of legal citizens that are looking for work..some for years. But, there is DADT and his "support" for gay marriage and I guess these are the only issues that concern some of you darlings..that and the size of Jon Hamm's junk. Too funny.
Sorry to add some reality to DL. So now you can all go back to discussing Joan Crawford.
R36=angry grouch & bore.
(37) I told you to go back to the thread about Joan Crawford's apartment.............Don't get involved in what is happening in America these days...at all.
That's what I love about we gays......America is crumbling and you're all worried about dead porn stars. Amazing!
I do pay attention to politics and not to Joan Crawford's apartment or to a homophobic porn star's death.
A solution to America's immigration problem needs to be found. Many people, including white Americans like Joe Arpaio, are guilty of "whining and name-calling" in the immigration dialogue. Maybe Obama's solution is a short-term measure but it removes the burden of blame from innocent people and it represents a decisive act, which lying Romney declares Obama incapable of.
Your post is pessimistic, reductive and dull. Obama's act will not lose him the election and not put a million Americans out of work. Sorry you place disagreement with you in tandem with an obsession with John Hamm's junk, it is clear you have a very narrow name-calling mind.
Romney agreed to be interviewed by Bob Schieffer on CBS, then refused to answer questions. He was very condescending and never once said what he intends to do of he becomes President.
He is trying SO hard to come across as affable Reaganesque, with an "I won't bore you with the details" attitude, and instead he comes across as arogant.
Bottom line: Romney is not accountable. He is not the kind of person who believes he has to explain himself to anyone. You do not want this guy to be President.
I saw some great photos today, of Obama taken in the month of May, where he was meeting with European leaders, I think it was a G8 work group at Camp David.
He was in shirt sleeves and he and the other heads of states were really in a working session: Russia, Germany, UK, France, etc. I was impressed with the body language.
This was a man they trusted, respected, and you could see it. I tought about Romney in that environment, or Bush. Never happen. Neither one could discuss anything of substance in good faith with other world leaders.
Obama loves to learn, to listen, to negotiate. He's intelligent and he has integrity. I am never embarrassed by him as I have been with other Presidents. He has a natural poise and restraint,yet he has demonstrated he can make difficult decisions and he will act to protect the country.
Today, he and Putin worked out an agreement to stop the civil war in Syria, and Putin is going to stop sending Assad weapons. That's what I call class. Neither Romney or Bush could have achieved that. Hilary and Barry were able to because they command personal respect.
We can hold our heads up in the world community, and if you don't think that affects our economy, and our national security to have that kind of President you're a fool.
R40, I wish more people felt that way.
[quote]You do not want this guy to be President.
Why is that r40?
R42. Get to know the issues. It's a little late to be asking such a dumb question.
I believe you're more suited to the thread titled, The Housewives of Atlanta, Beverly Hills or name the no-talent famewhores.
I know the issues r43. I'm just sick to death of people here posting "Don't vote for Romney" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Like everyone else in the DL choir, WE ALREADY KNOW we're voting against Romney. For the Rethugs who invade here, the silly warnings about Romney won't make a fucking difference. Get a clue!!!!
I served in two branches of the U.S. military and was cross assigned to the Royal Australian Navy for some special ops. I'm well aware of the non-military records of Romney and Cheney, as well as Dubya's AWOL and desertion.
R44. Then why did you post such a stupid question, R42?
[quote]Then why did you post such a stupid question,
It's a push-back at the idiots who post "Don't vote for Romeny," over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over."
People who say "don't vote for Romney" aren't idiots.
The ones that are planning to vote for him most certainly are.
Obama was about 11 years old and due to his age was exempt from the draft during the Vietnam era.
Paris was soooo tough during 'nam.
You may find it tedious that people are "constantly saying" don't vote for Romney, but you wait. By September, 2012, Romney's handlers will have completed The Pivot.
He'll suddenly seem to be moving away from his most extreme positions, or at least sounding vague enough for people to believe the myth that "he's more moderate than he let's on." We hear that a lot, too. And I'm sick of it.
Hopefully, from these "discussions" we have on Dl, and in real life, we'll be able to talk to other people in our lives and be able to rebut any softening of opinions towards him.
Personally, when I wake up in the morning, I look in the mirror, and I repeat "Don't vote for Romney" ten times. R42/R44, thank you for your service. I am serious. I appreciate your sacrifice.
Along with the affable Reaganesque image they are promoting, they're also trotting out surrogates to chip away at Obama's lead among various constituencies. There's an "ex Democrat" Congressman who's announced he's voting for and supporting Romney. He's Black.
They'll trot out Hispanics, women, and Blacks, not that there are that many of them, who "support" Romney. They'll also showcase Good Christians" who support the Mormon. Social issues will regain prominence in
Everyone is for sale. They want to give the impression of a consensus. Perception is everything. Don't be surprised if his VP pick is Black. Maybe even well known. Everyone is for sale.
Then please tell us how you are going to explain Biden's draft dodging while attacking Romney. At least Romney's lack of military service is being discussed in the media. Remember Dan Quayle and the golf clubs and the National Guard? Now Biden is wrapping himself in the military like he was Eisenhower. Dan Quayle did a hell of a to more military service than Biden ever did, and Quayle was attacked for it. Is Tail Gunner Joe Biden going to attack Romney for draft dodging? Can't wait to see.
I agree with you, R40. Very well said. Thank you.
Romney can play the vague game all he wants, but people are hurting out here. All I can say is, if he's vague about his plans and his platform, all you have to do is look at what he has done consistently all his adult life.
His record as a businessman and his comments over the years, his reactions, etc. tell you all you need to know. And why are we even talking about him, a Mormon High Church official on a gay message board? Did I fall asleep and miss what great support we get from the Mormon Church and Mormon money?
[quote]I was a free man in Paris
I felt unfettered and alive
There was nobody calling me up for favors
And no one's future to decide
You know I'd go back there tomorrow
But for the work I've taken on
Stoking the star maker machinery
Behind the popular song...
Someone should do a little animation of Mitty traipsing around Gay Paree whilst warbling this classic.
Romney's military background based on his French experience. The French left Vietnam and Romney flew to France to join them. Romney " Le Mormon Pussy." He should have stayed in France ! The drafies were "Killing Commies for Christ" The Good OLd Days.
Weren't CO's (conscientious objector's) and especially Quaker's over the years expected to not carry a gun but say, help the wounded?
Wish I could feed the Obama Campaign a few other issues I'd like Romney to address. Please see my URL Link (I finally learned how to post correctly) in Obama and Mormonism thread.
They definitely should make sure as many veterans as possible know the truth about Romney and the Vietnam War.
Some polls show Romney leading among veterans, and he should not be allowed to get away with that.
He wash on favor of the Vietnam war but to chicken to go remember bush he hide for a year he was Mia
So you're also agreeing about Romney, then, r1?
Or are you the typical Republican who thinks a deed is wrong only when Democrats perform it?
Who gives a hoot? If the President is elected then he or she is serving our country. I would like to see how many of you that are so riled up if you ever served in the Military even if there is no war you could still serve. Get over yourselves!