I heard the Mormons own Ancestry.com - that they're facinated by knowing, and cataloging info on every person they can. I want to join, but don't want to give any $ to such an anti-gay company, or organization. Anyone know the true story?
Ancestry.com is a publicly traded company, meaning you can own a part of it.
Ancestry.com was started by Mormons. Its purpose is twofold: to make money for the church and to entice people to share genealogical records that church members can use to proxy-baptize the dead.
I was proxy baptized when alive. Fuck those mormons and their brand of crazy.
Staffed by Mormons, they may have some non-Mormons associated with it, but it started as a bunch of Mormon scammers. I was an early member back when they had no data (their business model is that their users provide all their data at no cost to them) and when I cancelled they refused to process it. They made excuses for month after month until finally I got B of A to threaten them if they ever charged me again. It pains me to see them ruling the airwaves and spawning prime-time shows now, because I know what kind of scamming scum they really are.
It's safe to assume anything genealogy-related is Mormon.
Can you find out if someone in their family has been baptized by proxy and why do they do it? What's the deal and why do they care?
They have some weird doctrinal belief that if you baptize someone, even after death, they are retroactively granted entry into the Mormon afterlife. So, lots of Mormons have their non-Mormon ancestors baptized as Mormons.
They also got into a big PR disaster when it came to light in the mid-90s that they'd been doing it to Holocaust victims. They promised to stop, but since the only promises that a Mormon is actually bound to honor is one to another Mormon, they didn't.
The Voice of the Night
Religion is so stupid, how do people get sucked into it? Feeble.
Although part of the Mormon religion is unsettling (or just fucking crazy), the Mormons did start much of the database for family research that exists in this country today, and their stated reason was that family history was important. (Of course there's all that posthumous baptism bullshit.)
One of the parent companies that is now Ancestry was started by two LDS students, indeed. But it's become a much broader company since.
PS, "Who Do You Think You Are", Ancestry's show that was on NBC, just got cancelled.
R8--because it offers solace in life's darkest moments. It can be used for good (the abolitionist movement) or for evil (the Inquisition, Muslim extremism, etc.) Religion has always been, and will always be, a part of the human experience.
R9 I liked that show. Disappointed it's being cancelled. I knew something was up about a month ago when the show was no longer listed in TVGuide.com even though new episodes were airing. Paula Deen will be on the final episode this Friday.
Genealogy is a big thing for mormons. On an episode of Hoarders a mother took a family history portfolio from her daughter when the cleaning crew discovered it and it created a big fight because the daughter wanted it.
wow, i had no idea.
damn, i hate them.
Familysearch.org is the one that is owned by the Mormons
R11 PBS picked up the show though it is called something else. Celebrities, same host etc
I think GenWeb is the least infected with Mormon crap.
Familysearch is indeed owned by the LDS church. Ancestry is fundamentally a competitor. Familysearch is free, and has some overlapping sets of records with Ancestry. Sometimes one or the other do better or worse jobs in indexing them, however it's clear that, with rare exceptions they are competitors. (One exxception revolves around the 1880 census, for which LDS did the original index but Ancestry posted the images. So you could get the information for free but had to subscribe to Ancestry to see the original census pages.)
Serious genealogists (and I consider myself one) are finally accepting that there can be an incredible amount of actual source material on line. For a long time about all you could get on line was undocumented family trees that were of errors and continually repeating invented and fradulent information. Increasingly, material only available many miles away or on microfilm ordered on loan (yes, sometimes from the Mormons) is now available on line. This is not without cost, of course, particularly if good indexes, which must be compiled by humans, are desired.
So, we accept that an Ancestry subscription is required and the FamilySearch is a real resource. For what you pay it is not a bad deal. And since it is the biggest game in town, it also is more likely to put you in contact with distant cousins, if that interests you. (Not me, particularly.) But there can be a collaborative spirit around research that is a good thing.
And Ancestry offers a pretty decent menu of options to prevent people that you don't want to connect with from being able to harrass you, and ways to post a certain amount of your information without posting it all. One soon learns to be caustious as there are a few people who want to just copy all your research and then post it as their own without any credit, or take working hypotheses and claim they are true. You get the idea.
Most of the Mormons I've run into in doing research have been a little naive, pretty trusting, and very hardworking. Clearly I have major issues with the church around many things. Using their data isn't one of them.
And genealogists as a whole are perfectly happy to tap into these resources without subscribing to any of the LDS faith. One of these days the head of the church will announce a revelation that gay people are also creatd in God's image or are gods waiting to happen or whatever, and the masses will blindly follow along.
I too will miss Who Do You Think You Are. A nice way to wrap up my week. And a little different perspective than Skip Gates' Sunday night series. I suspect it cost more to produce than the one on PBS. More travel to Europe, etc. The research angle was better done on it, however, than Skip Gates' show, which tends to emphasize social issues and historical context, with a theme for each show. Skip Gates, who I think must be a big ole homo, had Wanda Sykes on his show last week. And he's not afraid of telling the world who she is (nor is she, of course.)
I've prattled on for far too long, DL friends....
[quote]I've prattled on for far too long, DL friends....
Meh, we're used to it.
Actually, since your post was quite informative and not focussed solely on yourself, it's perfect!
[quote]They have some weird doctrinal belief that if you baptize someone, even after death, they are retroactively granted entry into the Mormon afterlife.
Adolph Hitler was posthumously baptized in 1992. He's eligible for the Mormon afterlife now.
[quote]I knew something was up about a month ago when the show was no longer listed in TVGuide.com even though new episodes were airing.
Get a load of Ms. Nancy Drew!
r13, what part of r5's post did you not get?
Pretty much every genealogy company is run by Mormons.
Ancestry.com is based in Provo, Utah. It's a fucking Mormon company.
Only Jews start Internet companies (Google, Facebook, Paypal, eBay, Craigslist and Digg)
The thing I object to most is the desecration of old documents around the world by Mormons. They quietly go the churches and cathedrals looking for birth/death records and leave with the actual page that they want, ripped from the book. Fuckers.
Professional archivist here. I can tell you that the best genealogists out there are Mormons. It wouldn't surprise me if the LDS church had a huge financial stake in Ancestry.com.
I use Ancestry all the time in researching new collections--you have to be careful with what you use, though; remember, most of the content is uploaded by volunteers and hobbyists. That said, if the records you are using are census records, military records or county records, what you're looking at is most likely accurate.
"Mormons" have @ the second largest Family History Website -- FamilySearch.org It is second to Ancestry. It is totally free and gets about 8,ooo,ooo hits a day. Why would they spend all that money if they owned Ancestry?? FamilySearch is great and gets better everyday. They add original record images from all over the world every day. All this is free with no advertising. Try out their WIKI to guide you through finding your ancestors.
Because Mormons are trying to control all of genealogy R24. Duh.
A friend of mine does a lot of genealogical research and has been told several times by public officials that a lot of the pages of public records were stolen by Mormon "researchers". They come in to "look" and tear out pages and disappear.
They do the same with all books which do not compliment them. They used to go around to public libraries with a list of books to remove.
23andMe is pricey but they give you a list of people who share your DNA and what your lIkely relationship is. I got 760 names.
So WHAT if they baptize you after death? Do you actually believe they are sending you to Mormon Heaven? I did genealogy research on a number of lines for about 10 years and their information, web sites, and microfilm are tremendous sources. You can't believe everything, you have to evaluate what you find. Even official records sometimes have errors. And yes, there ARE people who use your research and claim it and repeat your possibilities as facts. It didn't bother me too much, because I had the fun of finding the information and THEY are the ones being cheats.
[quote]I was proxy baptized when alive. Fuck those mormons and their brand of crazy.
It's damn expensive, I never joined because of the price.
"Who Do You Think You Are" was interesting. My family is distantly related to Rob Lowe through his East line.
[quote]It's damn expensive, I never joined because of the price.
It's FREE to create an account and build a family tree.
You pay to have access to all the records an to other people's trees.
But...the record searches do work and give you a list of results that are only partially blocked out. You can then find most of the records on familysearch for free.
It's pretty incredible the number of ignorant posters on this site that know nothing about the Mormons but seem to know everything there is. I've never heard as much bigoted, stereotype comments about a people as most of you posting on this site. How many of you have seen a Mormon tearing out a page of a church or civil record? How would you even know they're Mormon? You're idiots. Baptizing someone after their dead is related to Mormon doctrine that baptism is an ordinance done on earth and is necessary to join the church. It does not make them a Mormon. Mormons believe people still have their free will in the next life and can reject the baptism just like you can here. If you took a little bit of time to research the truth instead of going off of other idiots that have no regard for the truth but cling so dearly to the hearsay that they'd probably lose their sense of security if they actually were faced with the truth.
r34 is Mormon and lost apparently.
[quote]They do the same with all books which do not compliment them. They used to go around to public libraries with a list of books to remove.
Other groups do it too -- for a while, the study on the USS Liberty sinking was the book most stolen from libraries.
Most public library web sites have good genealogy research databases you can use for free. All you need to do is get a library card number (which is free at your library) in order to use their databases.
FYI- Ancestry.com is NOT owned by the LDS Church, as they have their own company likened to Anecstry.com. Secondly, it's not all run by Mormons... on the contrary. The CEO is the former CEO of Match.com, the General Counsel and CFO come from Omnimedia (Martha Stewarts Empire). They have majority of the workforce living in Park City and commuting to Utah County. It's a progressive, diverse and intelligent workforce.
The Mormon's have a building next to the church that is used for genealogical research. I went in and they are very nice and helpful.
I'm in Michigan so not certain how they have it setup elsewhere.
How many of you out there really "know" anything about Mormons, Jews, Catholics, Lutherans, Muslims, Baptists, Buddhists, etc.? You seem to take the word of any idiot on the internet to be the gospel. Try really researching something once in a while, like at a real library instead of some stupid internet venting network. If it doesn't affect you then why comment on it at all? If you don't want to know about your family background then fine don't research your family background. But because someone...anyone else might want to know about their faiy and its background why do you need to condemn the entire group...no matter who they might be? So many of you who resppond to these types of sites with negative, gossipy comments are the type that are ripe for "gentlemen" like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Hussein, and any other maniac who can increase hated and bigotry to justify their means. Lets hear it for the "good guys" two cheers for freedom of speech! Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they could see how that one statement, "Freedom of Speech" has been so defiled.
[quote]They have some weird doctrinal belief that if you baptize someone, even after death
Unlike wine magically turning into the blood of Jesus Christ.
[quote]Only Jews start Internet companies (Google, Facebook, Paypal, eBay, Craigslist and Digg)
lol, you may want to do your homework first, hon.
Did some famil tree research for my mom asd a xmas present last year, joined Ancestry.com and it was very very useful. I did not buy a memebership, but even the basic free sxtuff enabled me to find an incredible amount of family history...,so much it became overwhelming trying to pick just a few main branches to trace back.
Best find was my grandmothers' family founded York, Maine ( her family name btw)back in the earl;y 1600's, left England in 1636. One ancestor was the Standard bearer ( and alleged boyfriend) of William The Conqueror back in 1066. Most amazingly I am a direct descendant of Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emporer in 800 AD.
Presented this gift to my mom in a printed encapsulation , proudly told her of our royal lineage.
Her only question was "Who's Charline Mang?"
I certainly know more about the Mormons than you do R40. It is the Mormons who are the closest thing in the U.S. to the followers of Hitler and Stalin. And they have had a baneful influence of genealogy since they have low standards. I've yet to meet a Mormons whose family tree was not full of people for whom they have no real evidence.
Hi! Responding to this thread that was linked on exmormon.org. Visit if you have any questions about Mormonism and posters who are now Ex-Mormons or questioning are happy to answer anything you want to know.
For Ancestry.com, I used to work for them when they had a call center in Provo, UT under MyFamily.com. It is not a Mormon owned company, but it has some ties to it, especially since Mos are really into the genealogy thing.
I worked in the account saves department, meaning I had to talk people out of canceling their accounts. It was pretty bad at times, especially since this company practices automatic renewals and didn't send reminder emails or call when the subscription was about to renew. This also happened with free trials, so people were pretty pissed when they called in and found their accounts where charged $200 dollars for something they didn't even really want, and on top of it, bank fees if there wasn't enough to cover the charge.
I thought they had something to do with ancestry. My daughter is 2 yrs into the mormon faith and she is doing this ancestry stuff. The person helping her just can't believe that no one in her family is mormon. How weird are these people? Just told my husband that I don't want to be baptized in the dead when I die. He said he think you have to believe in this. Their goofy.
Stay away from that shit! Crazy mormons will convert your dead ancestors to their whack job cult in absentia! Don't give them names and do their job for them!
[quote]Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they could see how that one statement, "Freedom of Speech" has been so defiled.
This coming from the person who has no clue what the founding fathers meant by Freedom of Speech.
[quote] They have some weird doctrinal belief that if you baptize someone, even after death, they are retroactively granted entry into the Mormon afterlife. So, lots of Mormons have their non-Mormon ancestors baptized as Mormons.
I wish the Muslims would start doing these baptisms to Mormons. The Mormons would have a fit
[quote]lots of Mormons have their non-Mormon ancestors baptized as Mormons.
So why do they keep baptizing Anne Frank?
[quote] I worked in the account saves department,
What do I need to do to get a discount?
More than once for Anne Frank? Is it not taking or something?
I hope she has one of those cards like you get at Subway. If they stamp it for 10 baptisms you get a pair of the Mormon magic underwear for free.
Why do I care if they proxy baptize me or my dead relatives? It's totally fake. I will pray that God makes them gay.
I like that idea. Can we make that a thing? Ceremonies to turn famous people gay, like a baptism ceremony.
What I don't understand is why anyone who doesn't believe in religious mumbo jumbo would care if some ritualistic incantation is performed for already-dead family?
Hell I don't even care if they make soup with their bones. The accuracy of their information is all that should count.
R55 The bigger issue is their dishonesty. They say they stopped doing it decades ago, but in fact, they continue to do so. If you cant trust them on that issue, why should you trust the information they are selling to you is accurate?
We should get Ronald Reagan's bones and baptize him gay posthumously. That would really piss Fox News off. We could give him a posthumous gay wedding to the still living Sheppard Smith.
But do they still do that thing where the old mormon guy takes the teenage mormon boy into a dark closet and anoints his genitals with the 'holy oil'? That used to be one of Mitten's duties, back in the day.
[quote]because it offers solace in life's darkest moments. It can be used for good (the abolitionist movement) or for evil (the Inquisition, Muslim extremism, etc.) Religion has always been, and will always be, a part of the human experience.
The same could be said for whiskey, and it's cheaper than all that hocus-pocus.
[quote] It can be used for good (the abolitionist movement)
Religion was also used to justify slavery, so that kind of cancels out the connection to the abolitionist movement.
r18, I think Stalin is now, in his afterlife, a Mormon as well even though for a while he studied to be a Georgian Orthodox priest. R34 needs to learn the difference between their and they're---"oh dear".
If we can't trust them about this, can we trust them about polygamy?
[quote]Religion ... will always be a part of the human experience.
Being a believer that the world spins forward only, I reject your prophecy.
I am a Mormon, and most of the things said here are untrue. We do have baptisms for the dead, which is when somebody still alive is baptized in the name of someone already dead. The person in heaven can chose whether or not to accept the baptism, it's always a choice. This is a solution to the number of scriptures that say, without baptism, one can not enter the kingdom of God. Genealogy is a major thing in our religion, because this way we can make sure all of our ancestors can have the opportunity to accept baptism. Also, Mormons do not believe in polygamy, and we do not practice it. If a member does practice polygamy, they are dis-communicated, which means they are not able to attend church etc, until they make up for what they have done (which means not practicing polygamy anymore and repenting and making their wrongs right). [R34] has his facts straight. Go to an actual Mormon website to find out the truth. [R44] I would like you to know that no Mormon I have ever met has ever agreed with any of Hitlers or Stalin's teachings. I would try out a genealogy website and find out how it actually works. Mormons use a combination of scripture (The Book of Mormon) and documented family history lines to build up our own. [R56] Mormons have never claimed to not continue to do baptisms for the dead, we openly say that we do. Like I am doing right now. [R58] I have no idea what you are talking about, but definitely not. We don’t even have priests. **Instead of writing us off as crazy, maybe you should check it out for yourself. You can contact a missionary, and they would be happy to tell you all about our religion, on mormons.org. Or even just browse the website.
R63 - thank you for educating us. I never knew that those who received the post-death baptism had a choice in whether or not to receive the baptism. That's a very nice thought/concept and I will spread that around - I know a lot of other faiths are very resentful that baptisms are done in the name of their family members. The "choice" is a very nice consideration. Thanks again.
R64, are you serious?
R65 The point is that it doesn't harm anyone, and nobody is being forced into anything. A lot of men and women go to the temple at least once a week, sometimes two or three times to do what they believe in and give the gift of baptism to people who didn't have the opportunity while they were alive. Volunteers work at the temple part-time to do this service, and nobody is paid in the church.
I appreciate Maddie coming to this site and sharing her perspective.
Maddie, people like me left religion and would rather not be pulled back in. I don't believe in an after-life, so there would be no "choice" by your standards. That said, what would I care? I'm dead.
However, if I were Jewish and, let's say, your church baptized my grandfather who exterminated in the holocaust BECAUSE of his faith, I would be, rightfully, incensed.
R68 If you don't believe in an afterlife, than no harm no foul, right? And we can't pull you in to a religion if you don't want to be, not even when you are dead. Mormon mindset is that we are all brothers and sisters in heaven and we want to make sure that we can be with our siblings in heaven by baptizing them.
I do however see your point about different religions being baptized into our church. The church has actually agreed not to baptize Holocaust victims, from what I understand, but there are some members who have done this and the church has to keep apologizing. That is the fault of individual members and not the church as a whole. If a member has a relative who was a victim of the Holocaust and wants to baptize them, that is another story. However I am not an expert on this situation, if you look on a Mormon website you should be able to find truthful information.
People who diss the Mormons obviously don't know much about them so are talking out of ignorance. I have done some research as I do have some second cousins. I have found that many Mormons - obviously not all - are decent people and number among them some very brave, hard-working, honest, and god-fearing people and some beautiful people too and I'm proud to have them on my tree.
I know the organisation at the top is not good, it's kind of like an extra layer of government, and very controlling, like Big Brother, and no doubt corrupt, or even rotten to the core, I don't know. However many of the ordinary people are fine, and even more than fine, it seems to me a lot nicer than an average Joe Public.
Polygamy was outlawed in 1895 and for more than half of the 19th century, and practiced publicly from 1852 to 1890 by a minority of families (between 20% and 30%). [Source: Wikipedia]
I recently spoke to an elderly couple who spent some weeks touring the USA and asked them if they had visited Utah. They said they hadn't wanted to, but their touring companions did, so yes, they had spent a few days there. They were amazed by what they found and had an wonderful time and were so pleased they went. They said the people were very welcoming and pleasant and never mentioned Mormonism once. They went to an unforgettable free concert and restaurant. They highly recommended Utah for a great holiday.
So all you people who love Mormon bashing - there's a lot of you out there - maybe you ought to try criticising some other group of people more worthy of your criticism, and not such a soft target. Otherwise it could look like you are cowardly, putting down those who will not strike back.
I did some genealogical research and discovered I am not only a queen, but also a GODDESS!
I want my protein shake and crème brulee NOW!!!!
Good lord, how did the Mormons find this thread and start their PR spiel? That infamous niceness carries a high price, especially for women and for anyone, gay or otherwise, who dares to question the total authority of the leaders.
R70 needs to check the history - polygamy, or "plural marriage", was officially suspended by the church twice, in 1890 and 1904, and even then it didn't stop completely for many more years (google Richard R. Lyman for an example.) And it wasn't ENDED, merely suspended in the present dispensation. The 'revelations' make it clear that it could be reinstated on earth at any time should god so decide (or the legal climate made it safe.)
LDS men can still be 'sealed', or married for time and all eternity, to multiple women in their lifetimes, where women can only be sealed to one man. And he'll have all the women he's been sealed to as wives in heaven, where she can have only one husband. D&C (Doctrine and Covenants) section 132 was, and remains, LDS scripture. The church still teaches that marriage, even plural marriage, is required to get into the highest degrees of heaven.
Members are leaving the church in record numbers, and not just over Prop 8 either; so many are gone that they've recently admitted unspecified 'mistakes' and asked people to come back! That won't stick, though; the next guy in line to be prophet, Boyd K. Packer, is a hateful bigot of Old Testament proportions.
I;ve had no luck finding ancestors of either parent. Are there companies that'll do the research for me?
r73 - if you want to check out 23andme.com you can get your dna tested. They have an ancestry section that will connect you with others in their database. I did it and was connected to hundreds of cousins and a few contacted me with information about my family tree.
In case anyone is just reading the latest posts:
Ancestry has a great store of records. However, there is no quality control about family trees of the many "records" individuals can upload and post. The farther back one goes, the more ridiculous some of the information can be. Fathers appear as their own grandsons, people with similar names are seen at the same time all over the world, and remarriages at age 120 are not uncommon, followed by more children.
The Mormon aspects do not get in the way. They have a large set of LDS-specific life events listed that are at best unneeded for others. But the biggest issue is their not allowing a person to set up a connected family tree for a partner, rather than a spouse. Therefore, my male partner is my "wife" everywhere. So fuck them for that.
Also, their absurd desire to grab and seal everyone after death and for all eternity has led directly to the lack of scrutiny, care and factual interest in genealogy. They'll seal Muhammad and the Virgin Mary together as your ancestors if you put them down.
So use the site, watch out for their "upgrades" for data you'll never need, and apply a bit of a historian's care when judging whether or not the people you find actually are the people for whom you are looking.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Especially posts like these. I'm sure there is some truth to what has been said here about who owns Ancestry.com but there is much more ignorance. The LDS church surely does not own it. If you want to know what Mormons really believe look in to it using reliable resources, not this type of hearsay. The truth of the matter is, researching ancestry and baptisms for the dead is not a "Mormon" principle or doctrine. Look in the Old Testament.
Why are Mormons infesting this thread on a GAY MESSAGE BOARD. Tell me, "Joe", what is the Mormon position on gay marriage and adoption? Do you believe that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'? Do you advise celibacy for gay men and lesbians?
I'm waiting, "Joe".
"Joe"? Are you out there, "Joe"?
"Joe, Joe, where are you now that I need you, Joe?"
I guess "Joe" left on his mission.
He will be missed.
"...'baptism of the dead' is NOT a mormon doctrine ... they call the sam practice "proxy baptism" ... what the heck us the difference ... false doctrine by any other name would stink as foul.
Joe, baptizing the dead is so central to Mormon practice that even after they promised Israel that they would no longer baptize Holocaust survivors THEY CONTINUED TO DO IT.
If you want the inside scoop, "Mormon Doctrines" by Bruce McConkie is a more reliable guide to what they ACTUALLY do than anything they say in public.