Taken from the "How to Be a Frau" thread. I work with about 8 of these guys and the description couldn't be more fitting. So much white male privilege it's chilling.....
"Their husbands are even worse. Deriving EVERY fucking aspect of their personality from sports, Fox News, yard work, church and their shitty jobs. SO fucking boring and predictable. They have canned stories and cliches that they repeat like computers with the slightest prompt.
They are so self important and think that every word out of their mouth is a golden bit of knowledge or entertaining in some way. They dress in the the uniform of the boring and are keeping the pleated Dockers and cellphone industries afloat.
You know why their frauy wives cook canned soup and pork chops? Because that's all these lazy and unadventurous types eat. If it didn't come from the middle of the grocery store and have a shelf life of 5 years, they aren't eating it. Unless of course they grilled it themselves after marinating it in a sauce that also came from the middle aisle. Do you want to hear about it every Monday morning from Spring until November? No? Tough titty. After I regale you with tales of my $800 smoker that I had customized with the Georgia Tech logo, I'll tell you all about how I could've played for GT but I blew out my knee in high school. I'll tell you this story for 20 minutes a week before I segue into how I hurt my back 2 years ago building homes for people through my church group, Hammers and Nails for Christ. You look tired, do you have the "butt flu"?"
This is true but this is a gay forum so this thread will shortly resort back to female bashing because straight men are always desirable but the frau's on the other hand.......
R1 describes the lower middle class white male -- no one likes them, not even other white people...
Russell Baker discussed them, their assholery, and their unpopularity in his book, Class.
The guys I'm thinking of are "rednecks with money" they may do their hunting in North Dakota for a week and spend $20,000. They have all of the latest gadgets and tell you about them in excruciating detail. They go to Superbowls, high end strip clubs, mega-churches that preach the prosperity doctrine, they pay for their kid's college and fraternity (and live vicariously) they spend on $40,000 SUVs and an army of landscapers to keep the Leland Cypresses they had planted next to McMansions in tip top shape. They are the idiots who think their Thomas Kinkaide paintings are an investment. They think black people and Italians are loud, never once realizing that they're the loudest blowhard at the Longhorn Steakhouse.
You have a point, OP.
[quote]Russell Baker discussed them, their assholery, and their unpopularity in his book, Class.
Believe you're thinking of Paul Fussell.
Thanks R5 (early Sunday AM with no coffee scrambled my brains)
I love reading a 'type' collated into order. Because they 'collated' - their identity is hardly random. They are, above all, slaves to conformity.
I was in American Rag in LA and saw Dockers going for like $150, parenthetically - are they trying to go luxe and price themselves out of the herr market? Good LUCK!
So true. I've worked around mostly straight men in all the corporate jobs I've ever had, and to a man, they spend EVERY FUCKING SECOND of EVERY DAY talking about sports. Lunch with any of these khaki-pantsed motherfuckers is horrifying, as it will be about sports and only sports.
I understand they might not be into, say, interior design or midcentury furniture, or any other number of things that might be considered more "gay friendly" topics. But even basics about the world around them? Would mystify them. They know next to nothing about the world around them. The few that do are getting it from Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity and parroting it word for word.
Sports are neutral communal ground for straight guys. Gentlemen do not discuss sex, religion or politics, so for the last couple of centuries, it has been all about sports. And remember, the talk is about sports, but if you listen, there is all sorts of subtext beneath the chatter about teams and scores.
R9 - what kind of subtext? Sexual subtext, racial subtext, hopes, dreams?
That's what's missing from modern life, subtext.
I work with lawyers and all they talk about is law. They love to gossip about judges and other lawyers. They occasionally discuss politics (mostly local) and almost never talk about sports.
I have a lot of straight male friends, and I have to say that not all are like this. However, I have more than one friend whose husband cannot fend for himself. If my friend is in hospital, she has to cook a week's worth of food first because her husband cannot even make himself a sandwich. Half the time he cannot figure out how to reheat the food on his own.
The sad thing is how otherwise great guys can sink into this behavior in a group setting rather than make the group rise to their level. Our church men's group is an example. It is as if some of the men turn into whatever is the male version of a Stepford Wife when they get in a group of 10 or more.
This was my brother, an otherwise nice guy. Until he got laid off and was out of work for a year. Now, he's much more in tune with what's actually going on in the world. When that straight white guy privilege is revoked, sometimes they see the light.
Still wears the pleated khakis though.
I think living so closely together attached to their belts and constantly being around people has made most people lose all subtext plus the fear of being seen as "weird" Even the so called "weird people" are just as R7 describes and simply subsets. Subsets in cooler glasses but stll...
OP has described every man I worked with at Fortune 100 petrochemical plants in the 80s and 90s. These types also dominate at certain male-heavy state agencies.
The one thing OP left out is the casual racism accompanied by a weird fetish for black women.
A black friend of mine was cute and very slim, with an enviably perfect teacup/saucer ass. When she went to the restroom/breakroom, the white boys and men literally would line the halls waiting to unabashedly gape at her ass as she walked back to her office.
I was skinny, with big high tits, and the same whiteboy gauntlet applied to me, too. Our black boss (of blessed memory) finally called the men on it, and put a stop to it.
When certain reconstructed men would ask my friend or me out, they'd be ostracized by the tribe for breaking the rules. Apparently white men are supposed to fuck the black pussy, not take it out in public.
My favorite come-on, apropos of nothing, was "I eat black pussy, y'know."
Thanks, OP, for limning this subset of American male for us.
You are right R15. A prospective new minister attended our men's breakfast. He told this story about another minister in a "no tickee, no raundly" Asian accent. I was appalled that he did this, but I was even more appalled that nobody called him out on it. The minister (we hired him) also referred to someone as "fruity" and was shocked that the Gay and Lesbian members of the congregation were offended. Now that I have got to know him, the minister is really a great guy, but it is clear that these racist/homophobic comments are a way of male bonding.
That sounds awful, R16. I would have thought he'd be eliminated as a candidate right then and there.
This is seriously tribal behavior. I wonder if they're successful because they play that game so well.
OP, your first mistake is to announce the old theme of female victimhood because of the men in their lives. "Excuse them, because they have lousy men making them that way." Uh - fuck you.
Second, sorry for your lousy experience of straight men in the workplace. Sorry, too, for the lousy experience of all the people who have posted here about the inane, crazed and hilarious fraus they have dealt with. A lot of straight coworkers aren't like this, of either sex. The threads are about the ones who are, including this one, apparently. So if you can't see how this undermines your weak premise - uh, fuck you.
Also, for the reflexive cuntery that declares in true homophobic, gay-bashing style on a gay site that gay men MUST hate women and MUST tolerate all men no matter how loathesome, fuck you, too, and the agendas you're pushing here.
Finally, fraus are ridiculous, in the end, but it still can be said that to Herr is human.
R17 United Church or Christ
It is not much of an excuse, but he came from North Carolina. I think he had a bit of a culture shock coming to the NYC area. It seems that this kind of casual racial humor did not register as racist. He was actually shocked that we found his use of the word "fruity" homophobic. He genuinely did not get it. As I said, it turns out he is a pretty great guy, but he had a lot to learn. And, to his credit, he has learned.
Oh and don't forget armed. Or if they're aren't able to be, fantasizing what they would do in every situation if only they were "allowed to carry."
I don't think OP was playing any victim shit, other than "the pork chop analogy." Great band name.
R20 It was kind of the mininsterial selection board to give him that benefit of the doubt. But either NC is way more backwards than I thought, or his training was done by a very insulated school. I'm just surprised more than anything.
And I say this as someone who's attending a college affiliated with UCC.
R22, The vote was very contentious and he took a lot of heat for his choice of words. He was hired based on a majority vote, but there were several nays. To his credit, he has grown.
He is not a young man. I do think he learned to "speak the language" in order to connect with the men in NC. He came to us with a lot of "good ol' boy" characteristics.
R11, that was also my experience working with male lawyers for 30 years. Some sports talk now & then, but primarily war stories -- often the same ones, over & over & over. Such smart guys, but most of them are so limited.
The word Herrs is really not working, people.
I enjoy mocking their business speak. Have you heard them use " boil the ocean" yet? Example:
That certainly is a large number of documents you are requesting.
Well, I'm not asking you to boil the ocean.
Lawyers will talk about golf, but other than that, yeah, it's all shop talk.
R26 thanks for that. I have heard 'that's in his wheelhouse' ...and 'it is what is' from these zenmasters.
Lawyers love to gossip about clients and it creates big problems sometimes. Some lawyers with whom I worked went golfing and had quite an alcohol-fueled gossip session about a client's divorce in the clubhouse afterward, not knowing his business manager was present and taking it all in.
Can someone untoss R19's word salad?
That first post is lol
Always libertarians, and think that their tiresome, insipid economic "analysis" is exactly what's missing from the Obammy White House.
Not that I'm all that interested, but these Herrs seem homo-intrigued, I guess is the word. All that NFL bullshit it so homo, and that's becoming really obvious recently. To them.
I did get great head from a Herr once. You would never guess his inclination if you saw him in public. His explanation was, hey men are top of the food chain - what's wrong with making a play for that?
I didn't argue.
They are usually the kind of Libertarians who are authoritarians. Yes, it's a weird mix but they will rat you out to the boss. They love cops (seriously, they're groupies) and LOVE the military.Especially if they haven't actually served.Few have.
These guys who love cops, the military, and televised athletes intrigue me; they all seem to be worshipping at the feet of alpha males. They don't seem to realize how homoerotic it is, and they also don't realize that it makes them look like beta males.
It's like they have an inner need for a heirarchy that I don't share.
Good point R35. They talk about their kid's sports. Did you know it's baseball season AND football season right now? Apparently little Colt is due to finally be able to practice in full pads. How's that for fucking excitement?
I haven't heard "boil the ocean" yet, but they love to say "throw [one] under the bus." God, I hate that.
Is the Herr represented in Hollywood? That big guy who hangs out with Adam Sandler? Ed Helms comes off too intellectual but Grand Rapids seemed Herr'y to me.
[quote]These guys who love cops, the military, and televised athletes intrigue me; they all seem to be worshipping at the feet of alpha males. They don't seem to realize how homoerotic it is, and they also don't realize that it makes them look like beta males.
This reminds me of popular Calvinist fundies like Mark Driscoll, Douglas Wilson and John Piper. Piper's always going on about how Christianity has a "masculine feel". He doesn't even allow women to read scriptures at his church. Wilson had a recent blog post titled "Brothers, We Are Not Sisters". I'd love to know all the psycho-sexual issues the fag-baiting metrosexual Driscoll has. Jesus was a man, but he wasn't founding some pagan masculinity cult.
There's a hilarious trailer for a DVD about The Elephant Room, where these guys basically sit around and blow each other. The narrator has a great wrestling commercial voice, grunting "We're BROTHERS! Not catty sisters!" (Driscoll's recent Twitter request for stories about "[childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool]" pastors says otherwise.) It's like they're afraid people will forget that they're men.
Unfortunately the video has been taken down, I think because the Elephant Room has been subjected to so much ridicule even by other fundies.
Oh, I didn't realize there was a filter on the e-fem word. Odd, since this forum is still crawling with freepers and other bigots.
What do you want straight guys to talk about at work? Barbra vs. Cher? Rimming chairs? How sad they are because they have a big cock? What eyeliner they use?
[quote] Lawyers will talk about golf
LOL! I must be in an alternate universe. I've been a trial attorney for over 20 years and I've never heard any attorneys discuss golf with any attorney. Maybe boating. Maybe it's generational or regional.
All their talk is 'code', a facade. They all have secret dirty lives of philandering. Constantly cruising for pussy (and sometimes dick). They try to get off early for a tryst before going home to Wanda or Vonda. I've seen them almost knock people down and screech out of the parking lots. After all, it only takes about a half hour to fuck their whores.
It helps if you keep your tubby wifey drugged up on mood drugs, so she is unable to manufacture suspicion. She truly believes she "has it all".
I very rarely encounter anyone remotely resembling these people. They sound like nouveau-riche clowns, one generation out of the outhouse.
In the past, I have encountered women who swear that (straight) men are FAR more gossipy than a group of women.
They hate the government and think that if the shit hits the fan, their hunting rifle will stare down an Army tank. That's why they like their guns so much, makes them feel strong. They don't realize the inherent pussiness of thinking that a trip to the Home Depot requires a sidearm. Of course they love the government the second war is declared and/or a Republican is in office.
R45, I know quite a few gossipy males. They somehow make it seem "not gossipy" but they are just as backstabbing and scandal driven as any group of hens. Go to a Hooters at lunchtime and listen to some coworkers gabbing at the next table.
R47 is so right. I've worked as a bartender in such places. Everyone loves to gossip but the intention between men and women differs. Women will use gossip to try to bring down another woman they deem a threat to their frail egos. Men are okay with other guys having more than them. They admire them. Women on the other hand can't tolerate another peer having more than them and use gossip as a weapon. This behavior results in them being passed over for important positions in the workplace.
Right, R48. Men aren't fiercely competitive with each other and don't treat each other like shit. Gotcha.
Straight men were vicious with each other at my last job before I became self-employed. If a guy listened to a female singer on his cube radio the other guys said he was "under suspicion". One friend of mine put off getting braces because he didn't want to hear the frat-boy razzing from his coworkers. It surprised me that he cared so much about what they thought, because he was a fairly tough guy. There was a constant tension among them, a fear of being considered a fag by the other guys.
Straight guys police each other just as viciously as women or gay men. It's just a bit more subtle sometimes.
Count me in as someone who agrees that straight men gossip just as much as women. They just go about it in a different way.
Instead of the catty henpecking that we've come to associate with women gossiping over margaritas, it's more like a bunch of buddies, beers in hand at the bar or wherever, bringing up 'ol Jim or Steve or Mike down the block and what he's been up to and cracking jokes at his expense.
But hey, it's STILL gossip and still kind of vicious a lot of the time.
How could this thread go this far without mentioning the obsession these men have with fantasy football?
I am a casual football fan, I like our team and watch them when the game is on TV, but I never got into fantasy football, it seems so... tedious.
The guys I work with, this is their life. They can talk for hours about it. The draft, weekly updates, injuries, etc. I guess it makes a nice hobby / escape from reality (that Jaiden is "slow" and touching other classmates inappropriately, and teachers discovered porn on Xander's iPad).
I don't know what "fantasy football" is? I had thought it was about making up teams in your head with various famous players, and then throwing dice to see who "wins" (like a Risk game)? I hate football myself: 30 seconds of throwing the ball and running after it, followed by an hour of replay and "analysis" - UGH!
Yes, fantasy football is annoying. I like the show "The League" tho. R50 is right. The gossip is covered in "humor." If one of these assholes goes too far you just have to stand up to them with their own medicine and they will kiss your ass. It's funny to see them snap into omega mode.
Their obsession with drinking beer. I watched my sister's husband at Christmas and he easily had 9 beers in 4 hours. Maybe more. They talk about craft beers and whatnot but most will just drink Miller Lite all day long.
I agree, R48. I have noticed that it is, moreover, the women who do not engage in gossip and are focused on being collegial who are inevitably targeted by the insecure women. No surprise, really, that the more assertive the woman, the more she is villified by the passive-aggressive females who the tool frat-tards keep around.
I have thus revealed myself as a state government employee.
Men are fucking annoying to work with. Lazy and entitled, desperate to have their status confirmed AT ALL TIMES; whiny little ass kissers in over their heads.
[quote] What do you want straight guys to talk about at work? Barbra vs. Cher? Rimming chairs? How sad they are because they have a big cock? What eyeliner they use?
Not at all, but as I originally said back at R8, anything that wasn't literally 24/7 sports would be awesome. I'd be happy even if it was only semi-sports related, like their hiking or biking or skiing. The guys who can manage more than one topic at work are usually very skilled socially and aware of how they sound. (And since they're skiing, biking etc they also tend to be quite hot to boot.)
But I've sat for hours where guys will talk about all four major sports exhaustively...then press rewind and start again. Once, in a meeting, a female coworker and I were talking about her travels and mentioned Germany, and Sports Fanatic #12 - khaki pants with black dress shoes and white tube socks - said, and I shit you not, "Germany. Where in England is that, anyway?"
I rest my fucking case.
[quote] Their obsession with drinking beer.
I can deal with a certain level of craft beer talk. Better than the guys who drink cheap shitty beer.
A couple months ago one of my male coworkers was celebrating some helmet to helmet crash his football playing son had and how he really rang the other kid's bell. The kids are 8 years old. WTF?
"Yes, it's a weird mix but they will rat you out to the boss. They love cops (seriously, they're groupies) and LOVE the military.Especially if they haven't actually served.Few have."
Reminds me of the "101st Chairborn" thread. It is funny how the guys who are obsessed with the military have no interest in serving.
What you describe, OP, sounds like a US suburban stereotype. It doesn't ring true for me, living in Canada. Maybe its just American suburban males you are describing. Who secondarily, are straight.
R48. There's nothing like making sweeping generalisations about an entire gender to make yourself sound smart. Because every woman everywhere must behave like you said.
Truth is people will behave cuntishly if that's the way they are inclined, gender isn't the issue. Having worked for large multinational companies my whole adult life I've worked with men and women in equal measure in several countries and the only generalisation I can make is some people can be bitchy. Not any particular subset, just people. The only thing that really annoys me on occasion is that poisonous people who are clever about it tend not to get caught. Sociopaths survive and thrive at every level and it's nothing to do with gender or sexuality.
You haven't heard real gossiping, bitching cunts unless you've been to a teamwork weekend.
I worked with people like this. So narrow. Thought they knew everything and knew nothing.
Made friends with one of them and in private he was quite observant and funny. Around the others he reverted to endless talk of sports, cars, sports, computers, sports, how they told someone off and how Obama's mother-in-law looked like James Brown, har har.
[quote]I can deal with a certain level of craft beer talk.
Agreed. But until recently, this wasn't even a thing. Only lately has it become okay for straight guys to be fussy about their beer.
[quote]There was a constant tension among them, a fear of being considered a fag by the other guys.
Ain't that the truth.
I think this is seldom acknowledged, how straight men are constantly policing themselves, living in constant fear of seeming gay. Shirts, cars, haircuts, books, movies, speech, movements, EVERYTHING must be scanned. They must police and limit themselves in every regard so as not to appear gay.
And it's so liberating to finally just give it all up and be an out gay man.
We. don't. fucking. care. We ARE gay.
If you don't like something a straight guy is doing/saying/wearing, just mention that it makes him look gay. The end. Doesn't work on gay guys.
Our resident anti-American troll R60 heard from -- yawn!
I agree with the previous poster who said this is an American thing. I live in NZ and we don't really have this problem.
Well, la-di-da, r65.
Meanwhile, everyone knows that Canada and NZ each have their own version of the annoying, unimaginative straight male, even if it doesn't involve football and Hooters.
Nope R61, you're wrong but I understand. You'd have to either be an attractive woman or know attractive women. Some regular run of the mill looking person isn't going to pick up on how cruel women are to other women who have it all going on. That's a fact, Jack/(ie).
"The Hang Over" has created a new type of middle-aged husfrau trying to be funny-cool, the same way Sex and the City created the boom of fraus trying to live all Cosmo.
So true, r68. When I was growing up, all the men, my uncles and so on, thought they were Rat Pack/Don Rickles. Same shit, different decade.
You hit the nail right on the head R48. Very accurate statement.
Remember that thread, "the khaki-pants dudes are all atwitter"? That really summed it up nicely.
Khakis, when tailored and/or fitting, CAN be sexy. But flat front khakis.
Wearing pleated khakis should be a FELONY. It makes otherwise hot guys look dumpy. It makes dumpy fat guys look like they're wearing an adult diaper (and one that desperately needs to be changed).
And NO WHITE SOCKS with khakis. EVER.
Not to hijack, but can we establish the behavior variations of the Canadian Herr to his U.S. version? There is overlap. An overall stinginess that overrides everything - one that is discussed obsessively - seems to be a trait of the Canadian herr.
Passive aggression seems also to be key, unlike American herrs, who seem to have more delineated two-face behavior, with less passive-aggression during face-to-face time.
I never realized just how obsessed they are with guns. I know guys who went to the range or hunting occasionally and I just sort of pictured them having a few hand-me-down rifles or something. After Newtown happened, they've come out of the gun cabinet and talk about their arsenals freely. Holy shit, some of them have assault rifles and many came back to work bragging that they've gotten carry permits. I'm waiting for one of them to come to work strapped. Won't be long now.
R68, you're right. I remember thinking my uncles were sort of dicks but looking back, the rat pack was a much cooler thing to try to emulate. This new thing is so bland. Nobody gives a shit about your lawnmower or your kid's baseball team.
"I never realized just how obsessed they are with guns"
I don't get the guys who want to take guns EVERYWHERE because they're obsessed with the idea that they might need to "defend themselves" - especially the ones who live in really safe rural or suburban places that have had, like, one or two murders in the past 100 years. My dad is in the NRA but he doesn't feel the need to carry a gun everywhere he goes.
[quote] Not to hijack, but can we establish the behavior variations of the Canadian Herr to his U.S. version?
Same as dudes from WI or MN. Just substitute hunting for sports.
[quote] Just substitute hunting for sports.
Or, uncut for circumcised.
Probably hockey too, right, R78?
I don't work with too many straight men, but the ones I do work with are extremely religious. The loud and showy praying at lunch is vile. They also have babies non-stop... A new child every year or so.
That was relevant, R79.
R79 I loved that about Canada. So many well dressed, well groomed and uncircumcised men. Yum, yum, yum.