WTF do they want? They don't want government and taxes but isn't that what a civilized society is based on? Taxes help build infrastructure which is necessary. I guess they want everyone living like savages and fighting over food, etc and I'm guessing no minorities either.
[quote]but isn't that what a civilized society is based on?
Uh, no. What on Earth are you smoking? Taxes certainly don't equal a civilized society. Good Christ. People are getting dumber and dumber.
Taxes help keep a country going R1. If no one paid taxes we wouldn't have social services, roadways, etc. That's what I meant by civilized as opposed to third world shit holes.
R1=FReeper militia shitstain.
Again? How 2009.
As the government becomes increasing for the benefit of the Corporations only and ignores public angst, these types of organizations will multiply at an accelerated rate.
This is a direct result of failing government.
People will only put up with so much.
They grow whenever a Democrat is in the White House. It's fear of minorities, however they dress it up.
True R6 and especially now there's a big scary negro in the White House.
This is more than Obama, this is the start of a major public backlash against all politicians of both parties.
Obama is nothing more than a puppet of a corrupt system, which is not going to get any better at the polls. Change needs to occur differently now.
R8 gets it. Oh, and newsflash, not everything has to do with the color of Obama's fucking skin.
What do they want? They want to shoot people (preferably non-white) & not be punished. If they just wanted to be left alone, they would be hermits, not faux military.
What's really scary are how many comments there are in that article that defend these nut jobs.
Basically, they want to re-enact the movie 'Red Dawn.'
Because psychologically, they're children.
The Dept. of Homeland Security has placed an order for 450 million hollow point bullets, bullets so damaging they are banned in warfare.
What would Homeland Security want with 450 million hollow point bullets . . . ?
Funny, R14, that you think a handful of homegrown armies represent a greater threat than a "Fatherland Uber Allles" style bureaucracy that is using our tax dollars to oppress us and remove our rights and freedom in the name of "protection."
Tin Hats, aisle 12.
[quote]Uh, no. What on Earth are you smoking? Taxes certainly don't equal a civilized society. Good Christ. People are getting dumber and dumber.
"Uh," so do roads get fixed, trash collected, etc. at gunpoint in your world? Do you people honestly believe you could afford these services if it were in fact privatized? Are you under the delusion that there will be "competition" if it was all privatized?
[quote]using our tax dollars to oppress us and remove our rights and freedom in the name of "protection."
Enough with the hyperbole. Cite actual examples of your tax dollars being used to ***oppress*** you. Secondly, I'm sure I speak for many of us in blue states when I say the following to the red states where most of these militia-mentality morons reside: SHUT... THE... FUCK... UP about your tax dollars when it's the blue states keeping worthless red staters from shriveling up and dying. You don't pay enough to bitch about what you pay.
You know what, let's hope you get your wish. I can't wait to see how the idiots in red states who pay less than shit in taxes compared to blue states will afford to pay for roads, pay for natural disasters, pay for emergency services. Perhaps that's the only way to get rid of you dimwits. Let's make you actually pay your own way - in reality rather than in your imagination where you think you and your states are not the ones with your hands out and where you could afford to live in your utopia.
Let's finally give you what you want because I've got news for you, darlings: Rick Perry already showed what lying, hypocritical sacks of shit Freepers are when the fires and tornado hit. Why that pussy of a president didn't call Perry's secessionist ass out, I'll never understand.
Mr. President, you won't win TEXAS, so tell Perry to fuck off and pay for your own problems.
I don't know where to start with R13. You need to join Pink Pistols and learn some basics.
So here I go.
1. Hollow point bullets are not banned in warfare. What was banned in WW1, was scoring the rifle ammo. Taking a knife and cross slicing the basic lead bullets of that era, so they would open up in air and cause more damage. The logic was, better to inflict injury than death, because it slows down the enemy more.
2. The 40 Caliber rounds are pistol rounds, not rifle rounds. Pistols are only good for portability. They are useless in serious warfare, in all but emergency situations. If you wanted to control the masses of any country, you could not do it with Pistols.
3. The reason they are increasing going with 40 Caliber, verses the now FBI and Military standard 9mm rounds (secondary 45 ACPs), is because they are an odd ball type of ammo, which makes it easier for the CSI guys to do their work. Cops like their own ammo. Very few civilians use this round, even though it is commercially available. The most common round for civilian pistol use is the 9mm, which the Police, Military and FBI currently use.
4. Back to the hollow point rounds. Yes hollow point rounds have more stopping power, because they mushroom faster and don't pass through the target, wasting that energy. But this is old technology. What the military is using today are tumbler rounds, like the Pentagons new M855A1 and the Russian 5.45. These rounds tumble like a golf ball, stabilizing the round and transferring all the energy to the target. It is the energy shock that disables the enemy, not the soft tissue damaged cause by scored or hollow point rounds. You see in a military situation, your first concern, is you want to immediately stop the enemy from firing back at you. You don't care how much tissue damage he has, because even with massive tissue damage, he can still shoot back until he bleeds to death.
If you want to be worried about the government ramping up for a massive public revolt, watch for the purchasing of new technologies like the sonic cannons which will cause you so much pain who will drop onto the ground and curl in to a ball, but not put you in the hospital and and vibration gear which can make mobs of thousand of people so sick they vomit. This is how it is going to happen.
Counterpoint on the 450 million rounds story at link.
[quote]Enough with the hyperbole. Cite actual examples of your tax dollars being used to ***oppress*** you.
Ever been through an airport in the last 10 years? The TSA nearly shut down an entire airport this week because a 4-year old girl spontaneously hugged her grandmother after the girl went through security.
Remember the Posse Comitatus Act? That's gone.
Ever hear of the protections afforded by the Magna Carta? Gone with totalitarian wind.
[quote]If you want to be worried about the government ramping up for a massive public revolt, watch for the purchasing of new technologies like the sonic cannons which will cause you so much pain who will drop onto the ground and curl in to a ball, but not put you in the hospital and and vibration gear which can make mobs of thousand of people so sick they vomit. This is how it is going to happen.
Haven't those technologies already been developed?
So your sum total of the actual, specific oppression was when the TSA NEARLY shut down an airport? Well done, r21.
You love your Magical Negro President so much you are willing to throw away the Bill of Rights.
If President McCain had signed into law his right to order the killing of US citizens without trial you'd be up in arms.
But McCain lost, enormously, 24, because he had a harpie named Palin strapped to his back.
He also would have already bombed Iran and half of us would be dead.
You're very unhappy, and stupid.
Go suck Ted Nugent's cock, or better yet, LEAVE America.
"You love your Magical Negro President so much you are willing to throw away the Bill of Rights."
George Bush wasn't magical, and he's not a Negro.
Isn't it fascinating how these grunting paranoid militia nuts believe every single anti-government conspiracy theory, except the ones that prove far rightwing demagogues like Dick Cheney and the Bush hunta are behind ALL of them?
[quote]The Dept. of Homeland Security has placed an order for 450 million hollow point bullets, bullets so damaging they are banned in warfare.
[quote]What would Homeland Security want with 450 million hollow point bullets.
Every criminal in America has hollow point bulets but of course freepers like R13 do not think cops should have them too. And he really does not think criminals should be forbidden by law to own them and all the guns they can buy at gun shows with no i.d.
You guys didn't seem to have a problem with Bush destroying a sovereign nation, killing/maiming hundreds of thousands of people, nor the Patriot Act.
Lot of shit I can't stand about Obama, but it's pretty obvious rightwing buffoons unleashed on Obama even before he entered office and are now pretending he was the one who did things that actually happened under Bush.
[quote]What was banned in WW1, was scoring the rifle ammo
So if you can ban that, why not ban war? I never understood the war rules.
[quote]He also would have already bombed Iran and half of us would be dead.
Wait and see what happens there. May 23rd is the current proposed kick-off date for WWIII.
[quote]Go suck Ted Nugent's cock, or better yet, LEAVE America.
Spoken like a true fascist.
They want to control what their precious tax money is used for. Or take over the government so they can force people to live the way they should (according to the new leaders).
R29, as Obama did not revoke Bush's anti-freedom initiatives but instead doubled down on them, so he deserves to have scorn heaped upon him.
[quote]May 23rd is the current proposed kick-off date for WWIII.
Mental illness if sometimes quite amusing. Do go on R31. I'm nuking the popcorn right now.
make that "is sometimes"
quote] Ever hear of the protections afforded by the Magna Carta?
The Magna Carta has no bearing on US law. Only the US Constitution guarantees rights to US citizens.
These days, "oppression" is used by very stupid, spoiled rightwingers who think it applies to things like Michelle Obama fighting childhood obesity.
Go live in Somalia - there are no laws.
It is utterly astonishing how some of you assume any opposition to the ever-expanding Police State is coming from a right wing perspective.
r38, it's fairly easy to assume considering how silent that militia opposition was when Bush and the Republicans were in charge. But I'm sure, r38, you have a PERFECT explanation for that.
Well, no thanks to Bush, who let the LARGEST terrorist act in years happen because he is a complete moron, ...
YOU, Tin Hat McFreeper, have the liberty to express your deranged views from your bomb shelter, where you'll no doubt shoot yourself and anyone else out of utter paranoia of "them" coming to get "you."
When in all actuality, no one gives a fuck about you and your horded canned goods.
The militia people are not concerned with government surveillance. They are not concerned with the pillaging of America by Wall Street.
They are only concerned with black people on welfare. If they were any dumber, we could make glue from them.
Dude, I am a lefty liberal who thinks Obama is a disappointing Republican-Lite sellout.
[quote]Well, no thanks to Bush, who let the LARGEST terrorist act in years happen because he is a complete moron, ...
They didn't let it happen. They made it happen. And they made billions off it and they now rule the USA by fiat. Morons, indeed, the Neo-cons got practically everything they wanted from the New Pearl Harbor they were calling for.
[quote]The Magna Carta has no bearing on US law. Only the US Constitution guarantees rights to US citizens
The Bill of Rights is based on the tradition of liberty that was established by the Magna Carta. The Patriot Act overturned eight centuries of basic human rights and gave the president powers that wiser societies denied even to autocratic kings.
[quote]Remember the Posse Comitatus Act? That's gone.
No it isn't. They repealed the changes that were made almost as soon as the Democrats took control of Congress.
The Voice of the Night
And reinstated them after the Dems lost Congress. You haven't been following the PATRIOT Act have you?
I love you R17.
I couldn't even read this thread, especially after the moron at R17 said the gov NEVER used their power to oppress us, so I am glad a couple of people understand that giving MORE power to government (the main reason the militias are growing, and have been since Bush was prez) will most likely result in a totalitarian state.
No matter your politics- liberal, conservative, socialist, anarchist- the recent (as in the last 12 years) changes in our civil liberties w/r/t prosecution (or execution) due to undefined "terrorist" charges (or anything they can dream up) have made the US vulnerable to a total fascist takeover. Not that the US gov isn't 99% fascist already- we just haven't elected out Hitler yet.
Denying that is the reason that most political movements are ineffectual farces.
As I was posting my message, R47 popped up, and I had to re-read R17 to make sure I I hadn't called the wrong poster a moron.
They have no idea.
I'll bet these militias are funded by the GOP. They always disappear whenever there's a Republican in office.
Post-9/11, passing of The Patriot Act, where were all the militias that were so visible during Clinton's presidency? You didn't hear a peep out of them about anything while all our civil liberties were being restricted.
They're just GOP opportunists. Obama should get the IRS out after them.
R50, the militia movement started in the 90s and barely slowed in growth during the Bush V2.0 Years.
Those militia guys believe that both parties are under the control of large corporations that are controlled by a small group of VERY wealthy families. They believe that the government has used the education system to indoctrinate children into believing that the government is able to fix every problem via legislation, are expanding their domestic surveillance operations, are passing laws to crack down on dissent, are using behavior control methods to get people used to obeying any government edict, violating the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 10th amendments and a lot of other "alleged" crimes by the Federal Government.
Don't the realize the government would NEVER do these things, and they are just paranoid?
Taxes are the price of civilization.
So bombing the shit out of the cradle of civilization (using MY tax dollars) is part of civilization? Jailing millions of people is civilization? Electing charismatic sociopaths is civilization?
You have a fucked up view of civilization, like most NeoCons.
i loathe neocons
r53, rereading this thread it is clear you are insane.
Yes, I must be insane. Killing, raping, stealing, spying and defrauding are just normal behaviors, and must be excused if you wear a uniform, have a badge or get elected to office.
Millions of Guns + Millions of Churchs = This
What did people think was going to happen?
R57, the vast majority of gunshots are fired by the military and law enforcement.
As the government gets even deeper in debt, and ordinary people demand answers to why banks are getting trillions as they drown, then guess who is going to have the guns if we take them away from the average citizen?
Here is an example of why the anti-government militias are the good guys, and should be applauded.
I hope this doesn't get me arrested and thrown in a psych ward.
[quote] WTF do they want? They don't want government and taxes but isn't that what a civilized society is based on?
These people are always groups of people who barely pay any taxes anyway. It's never some guy who earns $250,000 a year and pays a lot in taxes. It's always a bunch of men who have been out of work most of their lives and when they do work they probably work off the books most of the time. Their kids probably get medicaid and food stamps. But they're all against taxes.
My brother is one of these freaks. He barely claims any income and works off the books as much as possible. That is, when he actually works. His children were illegitimate and were all supported by taxpayers. They and their mothers were all on medicaid, food stamps, wic and lived in public housing. If my brother actually worked a normal job for the next 20 yrs straight and paid all the taxes, he still wouldn't have paid in all the money that the taxpayers have paid to feed, clothe, house and educate his children. And of course he has also used up more taxpayer funds all the numerous times he was arrested, given a public defender and occasionally jailed. These type of people don't consider any of this taxpayer assistance. Nor they consider themselves a drain on the country and/or every decent taxpaying citizen. But they are
So, the fact that your brother was an irresponsible idiot (since he knew the government would support him and his kids) is an argument FOR welfare and higher taxes?
Was in jail for a non-crime like drugs, or gambling, or prostitution?
Considering that these "militias" tend to express hate for fellow American citizens who happen not to be the same race, religion or sexual. pref., I have no problem with the govt using those "hollow bullets" on them.
Fuck you, R1 and the other turds.
You're useless to the country. You have no resemblance to the forefathers. You're anarchists with guns.
Brandon Raub at R21's link was arrested with his shirt off. That's classy.
I would rather call them anti-One Percent militias.
Sounds to me like these idiots are saying "God damn America!"
I've met members of these militias. They're all paranoid, even mentally ill with their "conspiracy theories" and misplaced uncontrollable anger. Most come from families where alcoholism, drug addiction, violence, and uncontrollable rage is the norm. They all need a scapegoat to blame for their problems.
If you get hauled off to a psych ward for posting something negative about prez Rombama in a few years, I hope you remember that you were warned.
They are stupid, or crazy people, who want to kill, African Americans, gays, Hispanics...anyone who doesn't look like them and think the same way they think.
And I'm as crazy as they are, because if I could wipe them all out with a blink of my eyes, I would.
I wish r1 would be backed over with his pick-up truck...twice.
R69 is the paranoid nutcase. Really? I have family members that are members of these militias and they are wonderful. They treat my partner like gold, and love their biracial granddaughter and her mother. They were more freaked out that she was Catholic than black.
Propaganda works on small minds, and yours is smaller than Hedwig's angry inch.
[quote]They were more freaked out that she was Catholic than black.
Oh, then I'm sure they're really kind to Muslims, Jews and other minorities.
You've done nothing to help your case, asshole. You've only confirmed what we already think of them. Bunch of bigoted trash.
So much wrong with R72's post. Support your institutionally racist and homophobic organisations. Very different from race or sexuality.
R71, WHY do you think that they joined the militia, and what do YOU think that they hope to achieve?
We use a "z" in this country, R74.
Also, since they tend to identify as "Christian" and we've seen what the GOP "Christian" platform states about "sexuality" and let's throw in race while we're at it, you're the one who is wrong.
This is the part where you attempt to make a distinction between good and bad Christians, but don't extend that same courtesy to other groups.
Wait- there are people who don't trust the government? How awful!
They're organized and they have guns. LOTS of guns.
And lots of sympathy from the military.
Thank you for today's reminder that Libertarians are equal parts stupid and cray-cray.
Thank god, R79.
I would trust my ex-Marine neighbor over a cop any day.
R78 is the king of this thread. W&W!
I wish for one month all government services were denied. I'd love to see these punks running their mouths having to resort to cannibalism.
Look at this nutty new community coming to Idaho - The Citadel.
The Citadel will have between 3,500 and 5,000 households within the walls, with a single gate permitting access. The Citadel is not to be a closed society, instead a refuge for genuine Patriots who wish to live without neighbors who are Liberals and Establishment political ideologues, open for tourists who will be welcomed into our town to visit our planned Firearms Museum, shop in our Town Center, stay in a B&B or hotel while vacationing and exploring the wonderful skiing, hunting and fishing opportunities in the area, and many other attractions we will offer.
The irony of course was that Jefferson was a liberal.
R85, you do realize that Jeffersonian liberalism is low taxes, limited government and free exercise of civil liberties? Or that Ron Paul was the closest this country has come in 200 years to his ideal?
Bump, for the posters that think that the 2nd amendment is about guns.
No, it's about being able to defend ourselves against a tyrannical government.
It doesn't matter if it has an (R) or a (D), both parties are a threat to our lives and liberties.
R84, How come it doesn't explain how disputes between neighbors will be resolved? Without an HOA to deal with selfish neighbors who feel that they can be as loud as they choose, or blast their talk shows or music in the middle of the night?
That's the beauty-
The resolution system will evolve, peacefully, as the community evolves. Is that too hard to comprehend?
Militias are talk and posturing. On an episode of I (Almost) Got Away With It a criminal who joined a militia was profiled. He joined a militia and started to actively say the group should take action against the government. The militia actually didn't like this and kicked him out.
I would love to dump all Libertarians on a desert island or within some compound which is completely isolated from the rest of the world. For all their posturing, the whole thing would soon descend into a Lord of The Flies type scenario once the resources become scarce.
Remember the Trail of Tears death march to the Indian Territory, after the government of the USA stole the Cherokee Nation? Nobody ever heard of the Indian Territory---that's because they almost immediately opened it to a land rush by Anglo-Americans and soon turned it into the state of Oklahoma. Oh yeah, let's just all trust the government of the USA. We don't need any militia to protect ourselves from our own government. Not like they ever lied to anybody before.
It's sick, ain't it?
These anti-gun people believe that taking guns from law-abiding citizens will make it better, when a look at Australia shows how it just makes it worse.
Armed robbery is increasing each year, even as the homicide rate drops. The robbers don't fear being killed, and the homeowners just acquiesce.
It's not "thieves in the night" that we need to worry about- it is the increasingly authoritarian and fascist government ushered in by Bush2 and increased under 0bama that we need to fear. That is the rationale behind the second amendment- overthrowing a despotic and corrupt government.
[quote]when a look at Australia shows how it just makes it worse.
Meanwhile, out here in the real world, the data show that things did get better in Australia, but hey, don't let a little inconvenient reality get in the way of your fantasy world. After all, it never has before.
I'll tell you why, R13. Because they are going to have to go after a bunch of losers like you after you try to destroy our country.
This is becoming an issue now because gun control is actually being debated again. Rather than protect the home from criminals, these guys are showing their true colors and stating that it is to defend against the government. And I have no problem with them arresting the bunch of them for sedition the minute you start trying to go after any official.
These people like to masturbate to 'Red Dawn.' They really, really wish it would happen in real life.