Over-promoted by a Canadian Tourism shill or Over-promoted by a Canadian Tourism shill?
MONTREAL: Cool people, quasi-euro culture, great party scene, some good and original, French based arts and culture, weak job market - a great place to live, but not to make a career.
TORONTO: Mostly immigrant population now, badly over priced real estate bubble about to burst, no original arts or culture of significance, flooded with the same dinning, retail and fashion franchises found in every big city, better job market than Montreal, but ONLY if you know people.
If you want to establish yourself in the arts and creative community, leave Canada!.... else go to VANCOUVER.
If you want affordable housing, go to HALIFAX.
If you want good jobs, go to EDMONTON or REGINA.
[quote]TORONTO: Mostly immigrant population now, badly over priced real estate bubble about to burst, no original arts or culture of significance, flooded with the same dinning, retail and fashion franchises found in every big city, better job market than Montreal, but ONLY if you know people.
The San Jose of Canada
"If you want to establish yourself in the arts and creative community, leave Canada!.... else go to VANCOUVER."
You must not be from Canada or seriously delusional if you think that Vancouver has a vibrant arts scene.
It looks like Alberta is about to go anti-gay again.
What an evil province and people.
OP did his poll only in English, so naturally he got the "result" he was looking for.
They're both homophobic shitholes, just like all of Canada.
Vive le Québec libre !
Montreal has always been ahead of the curve on fairness to its Gay community - leading North America with the first non-discrimination laws in 1976. Outside Montreal, in Catholic rural Quebec, not so much.
Toronto has gone to the right wing, under Mayor Rob Ford. Gay has become a bad word in Toronto politics today, sort of like a return to the 1980s, when the Toronto Police Force used to harass Gay establishments and regularly arrest Gays for minor liquor, parking and loitering violations.
Montreal is the creative capital of Canada, for anglophones as for francophones.
Maybe in film, but what little music industry is left in Canada is still out of Vancouver, ever since the 1980s.
Montreal is incredibly boring.
R16, you have to get off the tour bus!!! Befriend a local next time. Montreal is wild personified... if you hang with the right crowd.
Toronto doesn't have any crowd that qualifies as the right crowd. It is a city where people work to live so they can go back to work.
Your link does not work r14
Like with female strippers, many are imports from Eastern Europe or Russia and focus on other cities now. There is not much demand for local strippers today, they cost the clubs too much.
"but what little music industry is left in Canada is still out of Vancouver, ever since the 1980s"
Again...you must be stuck in a time tunnel or just stirring shit. Montreal and Toronto and possibly Halifax are the music scenes in Canada now. Vancouver has had odd successes here and there with the New Pornographers but other Western acts have moved east or south.
Where do you get your information about the industry from anyway...thirty year old episodes of "Good Rockin Tonite"?
I love MontreaL! The french boys are sooo slutty and will throw their legs up in the air after two beers. Plus if your American they will ANYTHING for the chance to make it to the states
They are ;like a cheap version of the French from france.
Now that they are going to have a sepeartion govt their enconnomy is going to tank even more.
Good for me cheaper gogo boys and quebecois dates.
Toronto is much more dangerous.
too bad the Montrealers are racist. I think Canada should just hold a referendum where they throw Quebec out of Canada. Canadians don't want Quebec, and Quebec doesn't want to be part of Canada.. it's a win-win.
I live in Edmonton and yes there are a ton of fucking rednecks here and these idiots vote Conservative. Hell I was shocked to see people actually walking around the city in cowboy hats and cowboy boots...SOBER! One thing I will say is that I have never run into any open homophobia here. Maybe I'm just extremely lucky?
You are EXTREMELY lucky R34.
Vancouver and Toronto aren't really Canadian anymore, only in Geo location.
Montreal is culture
Toronto is foreign franchises
I haven't been to Vancouver in years, but I get the feeling it's largely populated with Hong Kong Chinese who bought their way in c. 1997?
Edmonton and Calgary (I've been to neither) are said to identify far more with Denver, than with anywhere else in Canada.
Toronto seems to be a manically desperate New York/London wannabe. Montreal, last I'd heard, was a backwater pretty much dependent on tourism?
Montreal is the film capital of Canada and the fireworks capital of the world!
Why are so many wealthy Chinese immigrating to Canada?
R4 was right about Toronto and Montreal, but really wrong about:
Going to Vancouver for arts & creative community. There is nothing artistic or creative about Vancouver. As R31 correctly states, Vancouver has NO art and NO soul. (And No brain and No pulse).
This, however, is correct:
"If you want to establish yourself in the arts and creative community, leave Canada!" You have to leave Canada.
"If you want affordable housing, go to HALIFAX." Not to rent! Absurdly high rents, especially when one considers that there are NO JOBS!!
And as for "If you want good jobs, go to EDMONTON or REGINA" - who really wants to go there to find out if that is true...
(I guess "good job" means a bit more than miniumum wage. Not anything meaningful, interesting or intellectually challenging...)
Vancouver is just California without all the defense industry money pumped into it for seventy years.
Canada, unlike most other western countries, does not require immigrants to become Canadian - ever. Thank Dual Citizenship laws.
The Chinese like Canada because they can move over there and never have to learn to speak English or French, never shop in a Canadian store or meet any Canadian. Canada, particularly Vancouver and Northern Toronto, are just parachute states of China today.
[quote]Why are so many wealthy Chinese immigrating to Canada?
I love Victoria, so peaceful and remote, just a short ferry ride across the sound to Vancouver. It's said to have a high crime rate (owing to the large homeless population that come for the mild climate), but I've only had lovely experiences on the island.
To buy property, R39
Montreal is the only place in Canada that is sophisticated, R37
If you want backwater, try the Maritimes or Western Canada. Toronto is looking pretty backwater now with their clown moron Mayor and their forever delusional wannabe attitude.
Vancouver = 30% Portland Oregon, 10% smalltown Ontario, 50% Hong Kong, 10% other
R42 -- the USA does not *require* immigrants to ever become citizens, though it is to their advantage to do so for greater ... benefits, as well as not having to deal with the dreaded Immigration dept. for any longer than absolutely necessary.
On my trips to the University District here in Seattle, it seems as though the student body must be majority Asian! Large groups of them swarming in pods, with nary a syllable of English to be heard.
There used to be a melting pot mentality an earning of the right of citizenship.
Today it is just come join your country mates living in clean and cheap North America.
Montreal is where it's at.
I live in Vancouver and there is no arts scene in this soulless place. I'm moving to Toronto in a few weeks, as there is more to do out east.
My experience in Vancouver hasn't been a great one. It is an overpriced city with too little to do.
Montreal is as close as Canada still has to a cultural center these days.
Vancouver in the 1980s-90 used to be the center of Canadas music industry. Bryan Adams studio is still operating there, but big bands like Aerosmith, Metallica, Def Leppard no longer come to Canada to record.
Toronto never had any internationally significant Music, Arts or Film scene to lose in the first place.
Move to Montreal, Toronto is one big mall of foreign franchises, Corporate/Government funded Arts scene only.
On paper Toronto looks like an amazing place to live but when you actually get there it's depressing.
Soviet looking architecture, faux British place names, bland shopping mall culture dominated by the Asian population. And it's extremely expensive, I understand why New York and London are pricey but nothing in Toronto seems worth the cost.
That depends on which city contains more rugged, swarthy, balding character actors with impressively virile trouser bulges.
[quote]Montreal is the only place in Canada that is sophisticated,
You're kidding, right? It's home to the most corrupt government in North America, and yes I include Mexico when I say that. Its population is stagnant and its outlook incredibly provincial.
R53 has never been to Lexington, kentucky.
Montreal is heaven, pure heaven.
[quote]Well Quebecois are descendants of Les Filels Du Roi, which was the King of Frances whores. So they have whoring in their blood.
You don't quite know what you're taking about.
Montreal has ten times the number of naked dancing men. It wins.
Culture? Michigan? You said that with a straight face?
Any area of the world, outside of France, that has French as their official language should be obliterated and the wasteland created could be used by the rest of the world for dumping garbage, nuclear and bio-hazard materials.
R60 has revealed the key bit of information on this issue.
And that would mean that Windsor, Ontario would be the best place anywhere since it has the highest ratio of go-go boys to population.
What is the going rate for a cheap but livable apartment in Toronto, a few miles from the annex? I am a graphic designer who might be moving there. I lived there twenty years ago and I'm actually afraid of what's waiting for me.
Toronto. The city might be bland, and the public transit is awful. But it's still better than the racist scumbags in Montreal and their racist and highly annoying language laws.
But are there virile, balding men there?
You have never experienced a culture of racism like exists in Toronto's Chinatown.... and NOT against the Chinese. R66 does not have a CLUE!
R68, are you kidding me?!?! The Francophones hate the anglophones! They want nothing to do with the rest of Canada, they hate Canadians and act like they're all superior. They expect the rest of the country, which is mostly English speaking, to learn French, and deliver services in French, while they refuse to learn English. Fucking hypocrites. Yes, I can't stand them. The last straw was when the language nazis came into a restaurant in Montreal and issued a fine because the boiler didn't have an on/off switch in French! They had to cover it up! Like are you kidding me?!?! Let the fuckers separate already. Cut off all the transfer money, take back parts of Quebec that are English speaking, and let them manage on their own. Lets see how well they will do then. They're already struggling with fleeting businesses, because of the nazi language laws, not to mention high levels of corruption and crumbling infrastructure, and that is with the transfer money. No, let them separate if they wish. I'd love to see them contain businesses with their hate towards anything English. HAHA, good luck with that.
Tell all the gang on Spadina Avenue that I'll be there 'ere long!
Lived in Edmonton for two years. Could not be happier when I left.
I thought most Quebecois were bilingual, but prefer to speak French as their first language?
Edmonton is beautiful.
Yeah there are a few too many Krazy Konservatives, but at least it has a rambunctious spirit.
R64 has clearly never been to Montreal.
How much to rent a nice 2-bedroom condo in Montreal?
Montreal by a landslide.
Edmonton is like Texas with snow.
All Country Music - No Gays.
R69 is an example of a Canadian troll. Like his US counterparts, he often lacks the ability to form paragraphs.
R78, I like Canada. It's Quebec I don't like. I'm not the Canada troll at all. I'm actually making a lot of sense, and if you bothered to watch the news once in a while, you'd be able to understand it better. Everything I mentioned is true, corruption, crumbling infrastructure, and nazi language laws. You might not like it, but those are the facts.
Quebec doesn't hate gays.
Western Canada does.
Anti-gay seems to be on the rise in Ontario.
Quebec doesn't hate gays, but they're racist, is that any better? Get your head out of your ass. Quebec is a shithole. It'll be fun to live in Quebec in a few years with all the businesses they've lost due to the nazi language laws. No employment, just like the hateful French assholes wanted.
You want to see racist? try downtown Vancouver or Torontos Chinatown. It will redefine the term for you.
Quebec wants to protect its language and culture, why is that bad?
So R69 criticizes the Quebecois and a whole lot of people in New Brunswick and other places for refusing to learn English. But doesn't the rest of Canada refuse to learn French, an official language of an officially bilingual Canada? It's not like you see or hear a lot of French in Vancouver. If I were a Francophone I believe I would hate R69's parochialism also.
I heard that Francois Sagat get blown on stage by like ramdom ten men at Toronto Pride 2009. Is it true?
Elias Koteas left Montreal in the early 80s and moved to New York, as he felt the opportunities in Canada were limited.
Most people in Toronto speak neither English or French.
How can only 17% of Canadians speak both English and French when everyone takes both in school?
R89, most Canadians speak cereal box french, meaning that they can recognize the french in context. It's like asking why more Americans can't speak Spanish even though a majority probably now take it in high school.
French is spoken in Quebec, parts of New Brunswick and northern Ontario. There are isolated french communities in Nova Scotia and Manitoba. It's not a common language outside of those areas.
And here, I vote for Toronto by a long shot, even though I have lived in Montreal. Anglo Montreal's favorite spot is Toronto bashing (read The Gazette sometime, whose editorials were filled with that stuff), while Toronto is only vaguely aware that Montreal exists. Anglo Montrealers are the WORST, and have some sort of superiority complex because they live in Montreal. In total it's rather nauseating, and I'll take Toronto's live-and-let-live vibe over that shit any day of the week.
"Live and let live" in other words, nobody gives a f*uck about anything or anybody else but themselves.... Yeah this is what Toronto is like today.
Believe it or not, Toronto was not like this 20 year ago.
I certainly believe more than 17% of Americans speak English and Spanish.
Yes, the Mexican ones.
I can't believe it's only 17%.
That's from the Canadian census as reported by the National Post.
Is Toronto even still considered a Canadian city?
Montreal is still definitely a french Canadian city.
Toronto has gone downhill big time since the turn of the century. It really was not this bad in the 1990s.
Montreal's mayor was recently run out of office due to corruption. Toronto's is going in the same direction fast. So it's a tie in that respect.
Montreal's mayor is not a crack smoking homophobe.
Toronto still wins the lame city past its prime award.
Fuck Montreal, although the people are lovely in character and looks. A city for the young.
Quebec City is so dreamy. Like those fairytale books of childhood. The only thing missing is the ermine dotted fur. Some can be rude to Americans on the phone. Not in person though. Turrets everywhere. The food in the restaurants is unbelievable as is the weed from the reservations. Everything is thought out so well. No wonder the Japanese love it so much. Did I mention their beer? When I was there I had to pinch myself because I couldn't believe such a place is so close to home. Why can't it be like that everywhere in Canada?
My two cents as a San Franciscan who is typically snobby about his hometown:
Have visited Canada many times, including Victoria, Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, and Quebec City. Caveats are that I'm accustomed to living in a city that is 50% Asian, speak French reasonably well (but not fluent), and I've visited Canada mostly in Summer, with an expense account. As an American, all of Canada seems clean, safe, polite, and lacking in the extremes of wealth and poverty in the US.
Victoria: Cute, but too small.
Vancouver: Spectacular scenery, beautiful, huge parks, friendly, open people, great independent shops and restaurants.
Calgary: Boring, sterile, dull, homogeneous. Downtown is empty at night. I hear that Alberta is like Texas -- homophobic, but at least the locals seem friendly and polite. Too flat. No significant water feature. The Bow river is boring.
Winnipeg: Culturally the Fresno of Canada.
Toronto: Big. A bit dull, but on a lake. No comparison to New York. Attractive but not stunningly beautiful as Vancouver. Interesting neighborhoods. Younge Street seemed like a nice gayborhood. Clean, seems like a wealthy city. Huge Chinatown. Too flat. At least it isn't LA.
Montreal: More older architecture, European feel, more gritty, artsy, interesting, and urbane than Toronto. Great gay village and public transit system. Not as flat as Toronto. The French Canadians like me and I like them back, so that's a plus. Felt right at home there.
Quebec City: Damned cute. Overlooks a huge river. Too cold, too small. Don't know why I charm the pants off the Quebecois. The most non-English speaking city in Canada? They're the horniest guys I've ever met. Great rail service to Montreal.
Got a call from a recruiter about a job opportunity in Montreal. I could live in Montreal, but I've never experienced a real Winter, so perhaps not.
Most of the world still thinks of Montreal as Canada's cultural center. Look at the BBC and Deutche Welle news services, they always show Montreal on their North American maps, but not Toronto.
I disagree with R103.
St. John's: the most beautiful city in N. America, easily. People tribal but loud, drunk, and friendly.
Halifax; gorgeous but very public sector, reserved, unfriendly.
St. John: Funky, a little poor right now, but friendly and much more gay than I expected.
Quebec: Tourist areas world class, but outside these areas gives off a 1950s vibe. Everybody knows everybody.
Montreal: Not the slightest bit European. As North American as Omaha. Full of entrepreneurs and would-be celebrities. So over-invested in the local Hipster Culture that you imagine the people there spend 70% of their disposable income watching each other perform.
Ottawa: Beautiful, rich, beefy guys, a bit closeted. Delightful for a visit, perhaps a little dull of living.
Toronto: Best place to get cruised on the street and hookup in the entire hemisphere (way better than New York, although obviously is not in the NY or LA league in population). Hot guys with middle class jobs. A little tougher and meaner than you'd expect from what you hear about "multiculturalism" and "Canada nice." Not particularly scenic or dynamic, and extensively suburbanized like cities south of the border, but for all that the place where ambitious Canadians go to "make things happen" and live a gay life.
Winnipeg: Wonderful town that was the first big city on the continent with an out gay mayor. Businesslike and fairly prosperous for its size.
Regina and Saskatoon: Mid-Sized cities that put the USA to shame.
Edmonton and Calgary: Beautiful and much more liberal than Texas. A little more liberal than Denver, which is a better comparison in the US.
HA! @r105. You sound like a provincial Canadian (pun intended) who has little experience visiting the US or anywhere outside your sphere of comfort.
Sorry, you lose all credibility when comparing Montreal to Omaha. Doubt that you've ever been to Europe, either. Calgary more liberal, beautiful -- or even more interesting -- than Denver? A thousand times "No".
[quote]Regina and Saskatoon: Mid-Sized cities that put the USA to shame.
Don't get your point here. Almost anywhere can "put the USA to shame". Regina sounds like Cheryl's smelly pussy. Saskatoon seems like a place you'd spit in. Ottawa sounds like a furry baby animal that you people would club to death.
Whoever is in charge of naming your obscure, mid-sized cities should be fired and be replaced by a new PR agency, doncha think?
St. John's, Halifax? They might be gorgeous, but they're so small and insignificant that I could squish them in the palm of of my shameful American hand. Or, top them mercilessly like I would a pocket gay.
Hurray for Winnipeg for a)giving N. America it's first openly gay mayor; and b)being the most unknown place on the planet. And, what has Winnipeg done for anyone lately? Not that we'd care, anyway...
The whole world gets that many Anglophone Canadians hate the Quebecois. And that the Quebecois are very whiny. And we are bored with it.
Nevertheless, r105, I really don't mean to bully or bash you, and hope you understand that I am (mostly) joking aboot your comments. You sound very adorable and cuddly. Don't know how long you've been on the DL.
Am a desperate, unemployed Californian who has a pretty spectacular job offer in Montreal.
There is a glut of younger people who have my special skills (no, not cock-sucking) here at home. I must leave home for at least a year or two and would rather live in any large Canadian city than move to Texas, LA, or Florida. Will start a new thread aboot that.
Am wondering if r105 might want to move in with me. I'll cuddle you so hard and keep those evil-doer Frenchies away from you.
Half of Quebec non-francophones consider leaving
Half of Quebec's anglophone and allophone (residents whose mother tongue is neither English nor French) population have considered leaving the province in the past year, a new EKOS poll commissioned by the CBC suggests.
While only 11 per cent of francophone respondents said they had considered leaving, the top reasons why people said they have considered leaving weren't centred on language.
“The results are actually quite surprising. That’s an awfully large number,” said Frank Graves, president of EKOS research.
“It’s a pretty drastic decision to actually vote with your feet and leave your place of residence. I was frankly a little surprised at how complex the reasons were."
Most people across all groups named taxes, jobs, political uncertainty and the economy as the most significant reasons they had contemplated a departure.
(article continues at link)
I spent the last 2 weeks of September 2014 in Montreal, and I really liked it.
I wanted a low-key vacation, and this was it.
It's a nice, big city, so I got to learn a new (and amazingly clean) subway system.
I saw some nice museums.
I walked a LOT in some lovely neighborhoods.
I tried to use my high school French, but thankfully most people spoke enough English.
Most people were very nice, although there were certainly the occasional snots.
I was surprised by the number of panhandlers. I haven't seen so many since DC in the 80s. I live now in a small Southern US city, and I don't see many panhandlers.
I was thinking of going back in May, but my other choice is Toronto. I've always wanted to go, so we'll see.
Any suggestions for an elderly gay man in Toronto? Elderly meaning 57, and no, I'm not looking to hook up with 20-year-olds. Wouldn't mind meeting men my own age, though.
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