Yves Montand's miscasting in "On a Clear day You Can See Forever"
HA! I bet you didn't expect that for a thread title.
They should have cast instead:
Christopher Plummer (dubbed as in Sound of Music)
Plummer sang "Edelweiss" in TSOM. It's his own voice.
I have never seen that movies so I really can't comment.
R2, does it strike you that if you can't comment, maybe there's no need for a post?
OP, the obvious answers are John Cullum, Sydney Chaplin, Dean Martin and Arnold Stang.
Cullum did the role on stage.
Martin would have given the same performance as he did in "Bells are Ringing."
For that matter, Syndey Chaplin would have given the same performance as he did in "Bells are Ringing."
And I just like Arnold Stang.
Richard Harris reportedly turned it down. I see BIG chemistry between the two of them, if you can suspend belief that Harris could be interested in a woman who looked like Streisand. He was really hot then.
R3, just how far up your ass is that Streisand bobblehead doll? Figures a pissy old show-queen like you doesn't have a sense of humor.
[quote] Plummer sang "Edelweiss" in TSOM. It's his own voice.
"Although Christopher Plummer's own vocals were in fact recorded, it was subsequently decided that he should be dubbed."
Montand's vocals ruined "Melinda," the best song in the score next to the title tune.
Harry Connick Jr.
I got it, I got it!
Rock Hudson as the Dr., Doris as Daisy.
Or Rock as Daisy.
Daisy was a college student. Doris hadn't seen a classroom since the 1930's.
Rock would have been good, though. The doctor doesn't 'get the girl' in the end, so it would have been slyly appropriate.
Okay, but Streisand as the girl???
Why didn't they give Jack Nicholson a shot at being Dr. Chabot? I have a feeling that Jack has a good singing voice just from the way that he speaks.
Yves also ruined "Let's Make Love" with Marilyn Monroe.
Anybody except that frigging frog! I absolutely hate him after seeing him ruin Marilyn's film and why didn't someone tell him to take the shit out of his mouth before saying his lines. OACD could have been a terrific movie if 1) the script were a bit better 2) Minelli wasn't in his dottage 3) they had a decent leading man 4) they dropped the Jack Nicholson character.
Dean Jones was a great singer and very handsome(see below); he never really broke away from being a Disney star, aside from his brief stint in Sondheim's Company.
I think Minnelli is one of the greats, although you'd never know it from OACDYCSF. It's a mess.
I can see the argument that Montand was miscast but only because of his singing.
If you were going to cast someone else it certainly wouldn't be anyone like your suggestions, OP.
It would be someone who, like John Cullum on Broadway, had a soaring baritone. Of those you suggest, only Sinatra would have been vocally impressive and it is interesting, though doubtful, to think of him as a cutting edge NY psychiatrist falling in love with a patient's past life. Dean Martin would have been a disaster.
Robert Goulet would have been very good. Richard Kiley, at the time a huge Broadway star from Man of La Mancha, would have been better.
Dean Jones and Streisand seem a strange combo to me and Goulet or Kiley would have been much more believable in the role.
Goulet and Streisand both have enormous heads.
Awful film. Awful script. No matter who starred, they could not have saved it.
[quote]Awful film. Awful script. No matter who starred, they could not have saved it.
Every scene is a disaster.
Streisand is as miscast in this as Montand. She's completely unbelievable in both the roles that she plays. Her portrayal of the Englishwoman, Melinda, is as laughably bad as Meryl's "dingo ate my baby" Aussie.
R21 is trying to provoke- good try.
That clip of Dean singing "Being Alive" from Company is wonderful- thanks. God that was a great show. I saw the original!
Streisand does her standard kookie performance as Daisy and it's serviceable given that she does sing some of the numbers very well. Her Melinda just doesn't work.
Most if not all of the alternatives for Montand mentioned here probably weren't big enough stars to share over-the-title billing with Streisand, even if they would have been far better choices. Montand had just come off of the Oscar-winning foreign film Z, and was a known quantity in Hollywood.
Anyway, this movie is still a disaster as it focused more on the lousy book and cut some of the musical numbers, which were the one saving grace of the whole enterprise.
Agree that Streisand is as miscast as Montand. But at least she can put over her songs (although the rearranged "What Did I Have" - to make it "driving" like "Don't Rain on My Parade" - is ridiculous).
Dean Jones is the only one on OP's list who would have been able to sing it better than Montand.
How would Barbara Harris have done in the film? Probably not opposite John Cullum, as she was on stage.
Yes, I do know that she had to be locked into her dressing room, lest she run down Broadway in the throes of stage fright.
Don't know who should have played the shrink opposite her. Linda Hunt?
Barbara Harris would have been perfect, of course.
She was perfectly photogenic and adorable in the film of A Thousand Clowns and even Nashville and Hitchcock's The Family Plot years later.
Phyllis Newman at the Wednesday matinees
Barbara Harris's odd tics were irritating, even more than Sandy Dennis. What's appealing onstage doesn't always translate to the screen.
I just saw this clap-trap (again). It is one of the WORST musical films I have ever seen. The Love with all the Trimmings scene/song absolutely absurd. Did Babs actually believe everyone was not laughing at her?
I had a huge crush on Montand until I read he said he took a mistress because he found his wife Simone Signoret repugnant.
Actually, I think the word in the quote was "repulsive", but I don't know what French word he used.
R30, was it "dégoûtant"?
Pauline Kael was hilarious about Montand's accent in her review of it, its in one of her books. He also ruins Lets Make Love For me, as his English is atrocious - he is though amazing in French filmsin his natural language.
I am sure I read that he was dug up 5 years after he died to prove some paternity case, as they needed his dna. Not sure if he was the father or not ?
Nicholson is simply awful in the film, but then I didnt like him back then, he was the sane sneering cunt in everything.
Barbra is fun though in the Brighton flashbacks done by Beaton and Vincente makes it look good.
I wonder why Signoret put up with Montand's womanising - he and MM must have humiliated her when doing Lets Make Love.
[quote]I can see the argument that Montand was miscast but only because of his singing.
Oh for fuck's sake. Not only was he French (the part as written is American), but he was 21 years older than his leading lady.
John Cullum is only five years older than Barbara Harris.
I don't think it makes much sense to speculate who should have been cast as Daisy/Melinda rather than Streisand; it was made as a movie only because it was seen as a suitable star vehicle for her. It would never have been made without a comparable giant star in the part.
But I agree she was miscast. At the very least she should have agreed to cut those damned nails for the part: it looks ridiculous in the credits to see her long perfectly groomed fingernails tending plants.
Well actually, r34, the part was originally cast with Louis Jourdan so it's not accurate to say the part as written is American. He was fired during the out of town tryout (because he couldn't sing it well enough), and that's when his understudy, John Cullum (whom the composer, Burton Lane, was promoting) took over the role.
Having gone through that, I wonder why Lerner and Lane allowed another Frenchman who couldn't sing well to take on the role?
"Having gone through that, I wonder why Lerner and Lane allowed another Frenchman who couldn't sing well to take on the role?"
I doubt they had the power to allow or disallow casting choices. For instance, Lerner wanted Julie Andrews to do the movie of My Fair Lady, but I don't think Jack Warner gave a shit.
Lerner was co-producer of the film version of OACDYCSF, he must have had a say in its casting.
Wouldn't Babs also have had a say in the casting? She was a prima donna even before the release of her first film, and I wonder how much she interfered with the making of "Clear Day". She's terrible in the movie apart from the song "He Isn't You".
She supposedly chose Minnelli to direct. I doubt they gave her any other choices.
I wanted to remake it with Sam Harris as 'Dusty' and Alana Stewart as the psychiatrist (Nancy Walker directing)- but I died.
r31 -- sorry, I only saw the English translation. I do remember "repulsive" though -- the word sounds as though he pushed her away verbally, that's why remember. Also someone told me that about myself once -- the sense memory was vivid when I read the quote.
Oh sure, Rock Hudson as a psychoanalytical Manhattan academic who has a metaphysical awakening and sings about it - absolutely brilliant, OP.
Actually, not one of your suggestions is better than Montand. He at least could sing it, was suitably suave and had a modicum of chemistry with Streisand. He might not have been great - no one was in that fucking movie - but I can't really imagine anyone better for the role opp. Babs with the exception of Richard Harris whom, thanks to the poster above, I've just learned turned it down.
Jerry Orbach might have been interesting and would have sang the shit out of it but at the tim he was hardly known west of the Hudson.
The film is terrible in any event.
It should have starred John Cullum and Barbara Harris.
Fuck the whole cliched "*insert conventionally handsome movie star name* was too good looking to be interested in a woman like Streisand" narrative...Barbra looked GORGEOUS in this film!
Yves Montand is such a washout...he always has that same goddamn look of disapproval on his face no matter what scene he's in. Barbra's too young and sexy for him.
God, Matthau and Montand..why did they pair her with such inappropriate love interests...NO chemistry. Now Streisand and Shariff or Caan...HOT
"Streisand is ...completely unbelievable in both the roles that she plays. Her portrayal of the Englishwoman, Melinda, is as laughably bad as Meryl's "dingo ate my baby" Aussie."
Then a comedian would be the only answer to co-star. Jerry Lewis would have been very believable in the role.
Montand was a musical hall performer and actor. He was very popular in his country and was even considered a sex symbol. I've never been able to understand his appeal. I always thought he was incredibly homely. His singing voice was supposed to be very sexy. I never understood that either. He had a very "European" appeal, I guess. But I never liked either his looks or his singing.
He was chosen to star in "Let's Make Love" with Marilyn Monroe for a couple of reasons. One: it was hard getting an American actor to star opposite Monroe, who was renowned for being difficult to work with due to her chronic lateness and inability to remember her lines. Two: Montand was unknown in the U.S. but was a popular star in Europe and it was thought that American audiences would be thrilled to discover the sexy singing Frenchman. His casting turned out to be a disaster. Montand could barely speak English and his sex appeal escaped American audiences.
By all accounts Marilyn Monroe fell madly in love with Montand and found him sexy as hell. Both were married (he to Simone Signoret, she to Arthur Miller) but had a very blatant affair. Poor Marilyn thought the affair would become permanent and he would divorce his wife and marry her. He didn't. To him, she was just another piece of ass. He later surmised that she misread his intentions and was not "sophisticated" enough to realize that that he was just having a nice time and marriage was out of the question. He ungallantly called her ardor "a schoolgirl crush" and said "if Marilyn were not married and I was not married I would not object to marrying her." Boy, what a jerk.
He was exhumed after death to see if he was the father of a girl who claimed she was his offspring. It was determined he was not her father.
*I find it ironic that DL posters here are trashing Montand. Besides the fact he was a dreat actor in "Z," "State of Siege," "The Wages of Fear," and other classic foreign films, he was a committed leftist like his wife Simone Signoret. His politics would be right at home here at DL.
*Yes, his appeal was European, the same way that Jack Nicholson is American. Years ago, I was in Norway and I was asked what in God's name people in America saw in Nicholson.
*His singing is an acquired taste, but so is (insert name of popular male performer you do not get). Montand belonged to a certain tradition in France where the singer "acted" out the song.
*Signoret and Monroe become friends during the filming of "Let's Make Love" and the former always spoke highly of her. I recall reading once that Signoret kept a gift she received from Monroe and never missed a chance to defend her. Why did she stay with Montand?
In France having a mistress is common--in fact, the joke is you only worry about the married man if he does not cheat.
That said, the film is a disaster. What in God's name were they thinking?
I second Jerry Lewis!
"Signoret and Monroe become friends during the filming of "Let's Make Love" and the former always spoke highly of her. I recall reading once that Signoret kept a gift she received from Monroe and never missed a chance to defend her. Why did she stay with Montand"
Signoret must have been a saint or maybe just a very sophisticated Frenchwoman. Marilyn Monroe fucked her husband and tried to steal him away from her, but she never said anything bad about Monroe. She was quoted as saying "if Marilyn is in love with my husband that proves she has good taste, because I'm in love with him, too."
I remember seeing photos of Signoret, Montand and Marilyn together at a table, having dinner or something. Marilyn is wearing a flimsy top with her tits hanging out; Signoret looks totally unfazed by Marilyn in close proximity to her husband with her tits hanging out.
In her memoir Signoret said "she (Marilyn) never knew to what degree I never detested her and how thoroughly I understood." She also said she still had the beige silk scarf Marilyn had given her; it was frayed "but if I fold it carefully the fray doesn't show."
Why did she stay with Montand? Well, she knew what she was getting: a man who would never be faithful to her. But I assume she knew that was part of the package and accepted it. He must have loved her in his way; he refused to leave her for world's biggest sex symbol, Marilyn Monroe. They stayed married until her death.
It was written with me in mind.
Because Marilyn was a slut and a psycho, r51.,
Minnelli was a great director, but there were too many cooks and too much studio interference. (As I understand it, the movie was drastically cut before its release.) A pity, because Streisand should have been perfect in the part.
Montand could be a great actor (e.g., Z) but he was pretty lousy in the extremely lousy "Let's Make Love." Why in hell's name was he cast?
I always assumed Barbra was going to play both parts, as well as direct it.
[quote]He was exhumed after death to see if he was the father of a girl who claimed she was his offspring. It was determined he was not her father.
Maury Povich saw this on the news and the rest is TV history.
Streisand should have been perfect for the part? No. They only time she did "kooky" we'll was in What's Up, Doc?, and she cold not have been more wrong for Melinda.
If they could have waited a couple of years for her superstardom to kick in, Minnelli could have directed his daughter initial. SHE could have pulled it off.
directed his daughter initial
say what ? there was no miscasting ...Montand was PERFECT !
and she was too !
Charming and delightful film , a breath of fresh air !!
Coming late to this but...
I'd always read Signoret's "sophisticated" and compassionate comments about her husband and Monroe. I think she also said that when you leave two people like that together, alone, what happened is only natural.
BUT, much later I read Montand having a different take. Simone Signoret got extremely heavy later on, and was not taking good care of her health. Maybe it's Montand's ego/vanity talking, but he said his affair with Monroe was actually devastating to Signoret, and nothing he could do could prevent her taking it out on herself, so to speak. He said this after her death.
Did I not read that one day while they were not on the set of LML, Marilyn decided to take that French bull by the horns and knocked on his hotel room door wearing just a mink coat which she dropped to the floor and pushed her way into his room?
That is one nasty stink eye MM is giving to Miller.
Peter O'Toole would have been deliciously campy in the part. He would have acted if he were in a Shakespeare play. Not to mention his performance in musicals was suspect to say the least.
Finally, this topic gets an airing on DL.
Simone Signouret's era-inappropriate make-up in L'Armée des Ombres.
Laurent Lucas - hottie, or nottie?
OP, please at least admit the fundamental worthlessness of the vehicle and the unlikelihood that any casting changes would have done anything except waste other talents.
And someone, preferably after kicking R65 in the cunt, needs to remind her that Miss Signouret's anachronistic makeup in that film, as well as her "Thérèse Raquin," in the multiple threads about Blanchette Brunoy's eyebrows in "La Marie du port."
She should try to keep up.
R66 hurt my foo-foo.
When was Yves Montand ever cast correctly?
Love Simone, a brilliant woman. I imagine the marriage wasn't real (her and Montand) but just a convenience for both of them,helping their fame, though maybe in the beginning, it meant something to her. They had no children - she had a daughter from an earlier marriage.
I think Simone keeping and tenderly treasuring Marilyn's gift to her is telling. She really had no jealousy, as she said in her autobiography. None. She was probably either attracted to her or more likely, very touched by the doomed near-psychotic Marilyn.
Simone translated and produced Lillian Hellman's play The Little Foxes for the stage in Paris, and also wrote a novel. I think Yves was just your garden variety narcissist, taking advantage first of Edith Piaf and then of Simone Signoret. But they knew it.
Hard as they tried, Yves Montand could not be foisted upon the American public.
Is this the film where YM sings a song while on the top of the Pan Am building?
So friggin funny.
Let's put another inconsequential title to a new post and get all the Barbra haters to have a field day with her again. It does amuse though to see all of the laddies get farklempt over Barbra every other two days on this board. She can still get the attention.....faux attention, that is from the Streisand detesters who scream and yell that she has never done anything right in her career or life since day one. Hate to inform you ladies, 52 years into her career and Barbra can still claim...I'm still here!!!!
Looking forward to the next topic from the Streisand haters..... who all sound like rejects from the staple of haters who work at Fox News and will never have one kind word for President Obama EVER in the lifetime. You may think you are fooling us, but we've got your number band clear modus operandi.
I don't know why you're frightened
Barbra knows her way around here
Ready, set, fingers on the keyboard.....GO!!!!!!!!!!!
"He Isn't You" is Streisand at her absolute best. "Love with all the Trimmings" is pretty amazing too. So the whole thing is far from a loss.
I do, however, laugh every time they cut to Montand for a reaction shot to kooky Daisy and his face never moves. It's like they printed one short take and used it over and over. And the "Come Back to Me" number is pretty gruesome.
Liza should have been cast as Daisy.
And Peter O'Toole
Her version of the title song is one of the most spectacular vocal tour de forces in show business history- her voice soars- surges- ebbs- all with that crystalline timbre. She has no peer.
There really are some major idiots on some of these DL threads. Kind of astounding.
r76 - No one said she can't sing. But she was miscast, as she was in Dolly and several other films.
I heart r73, but probably not for the reasons she would like.
Liza would have been much better as Daisy - just better casting, even for the Georgian English flashbacks. Speaking of which, the film is madly disjointed. The flashback scenes draw you into a story that has no relevance to the remainder of the plot. I suppose past lives are meant to remain in the past, but it's the viewers who are left feeling in limbo when the sumptuous flashback story abruptly and arbitrarily concludes.
Judy Garland was still alive when they filmed Clear Day. They should have cast Judy and made Daisy a kooky Adult Night School student who is trying to quit smoking.
The thrill of a big movie comeback might have saved Judy's life.
Howard Keel for her co-star.
Mickey Rooney as her stoner half-brother.
I sucked his cock, ya know.
Yves Montand is such a washout in this film...he always has that same goddamn look of disapproval on his face no matter what scene he's in. Barbra's casting in this film is only inappropriate because she was too young and sexy for him.
I like Barbara Harris as an actress but let's face it....those costumes would have looked ridiculous on her. Barbara looked effortless and gorgeous in them.
God, Matthau and Montand..why did they pair her with such inappropriate love interests...NO chemistry. Now Streisand and Shariff or Caan...HOT
[quote]God, Matthau and Montand..why did they pair her with such inappropriate love interests...NO chemistry
Matthau was better cast than Streisand in HELLO, DOLLY! He should have been aged up and played opposite Betty Grable as Dolly. Streisand ruins the story. It isn't supposed to be about a greedy young Jewess who double-crosses her clients so she can horn in on a rich and fuckable man's money when all he wanted was a pretty shiksa.
Streisand was miscast in part because she never fully sells the kooky, wacky, disorganized character. It's not all her fault -- those modern outfits were absolutely impeccable, and her garden, even if it was supposed to be thanks to an unconscious "power" and not her own green thumb -- was gorgeous.
But she's so charming, especially in the "Go to Sleep" number and in those beautiful flashbacks, she never seems like a loser. When Yves dumps on her over and over again for being so terrible, it makes him look like an asshole, completely killing any possible chemistry they might have had.
If they'd just not cut out all the flashback scenes and instead cut more of the modern day scenes, that alone would have helped.
All those outfits would have worked if it turned out she had some power to produce a different outfit for every appearance. After awhile it just became a fashion show.