Today is really too hot in New England. This summer should be brutal. Oy.
Oh, no, this couldn't possibly be correct. You're not dealing with facts, OP.
Why, it got down to almost 20 degrees in Tulsa this past winter, and we even had snow once.
My magnolia is starting to bloom, in March, in Minnesota; this is a first. It has been in the bid to high 70s for a week. I'm not complaining, just saying.
It was so unseasonably warm in New York today, the thing on Donald Trump's head asked him, "Now do you believe in global warming?"
I saw on the news that the cherry trees are blossoming now. Didn't they used to bloom in mid-April?
Why are people so ignorant about climate change, even when it's been explained over and over. We're talking about overall global changes of a degree or two, not temporary local weather fluctuations.
Everything budding and blooming in Indiana. I've enjoyed the mild winter, but I'm afraid we're going to suffer deadly heat waves this summer.
Maybe that's why the Fundies are focusing Canada: it will be the future ideal climate.
uh, the weather today, this month, or this year does not prove longterm climate change. stop using microclimate to argue for longterm global climate change. it's weak.
CLimate change is a natural phenomenon . Humans contribute very little to it.
Bullshit. We caused this one and if we have to suffer for what we've done, so be it.
Once in awhile we do get early spring, it happens about every 20 years.
I bet this summer is a lot milder than most are predicting. These weather forecasters almost always get it wrong.
The weather is starting to remind me of the "Midnight Sun" episode of Twilight Zone.
Just because NYC is having an unseasonably warm few days in mid-March does not constitute proof of anything. We had an unseasonable snowstorm last week on the Oregon coast.
The whole world is not wired to New York's ass.
No, R8, but looking at rising temperatures and rising levels of carbon in the atmosphere over the course of the last 200 years does prove it.
You really have to be some kind of amoeba to still be denying it at this point.
"Why are people so ignorant about climate change, even when it's been explained over and over."
Because dealing with it would require a major change in the way many companies do business and the way we consume energy. It would require stiffer envinronmental regulations that would be strictly enforced. It would require our largely abandoning fossil fuels and put some large companies out of business.
In other words, it's the GOP/Tea Party version of Armageddon.
[quote]If there were any doubt that a real warming trend is upon us, scientists at NASA have produced a visualization that depicts the recent rise in global temperatures as felt over a span of 130 years.
[quote]While the video shows a clear pattern of seasonal temperature changes along with momentary spikes throughout the centuries, you can see that it’s only recently that temperatures in most regions of the world (represented with intensified colors) started to really peak. In fact, since the year 2000, we’ve experienced nine of the 10 warmest years on record. And the researchers have noted that within the past 11 years, temperatures were significantly hotter than in the middle and late 20th century. For instance, the average temperature globally in 2011 was 0.92 degrees F (0.51 C) warmer than baseline temperatures in the mid-20th century.
[quote]The weather data was culled from more than 1,000 meteorological stations around the world, satellite measurements of sea surface temperature and recordings from an Antarctic research station. Researchers then used a computer program (available to the public) to calculate the difference between the surface temperature in a given month and the average temperature for the same place from 1951 to 1980, which served as a baseline for the analysis. Similar results from the UK’s Met Office Hadley Centre and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) National Climatic Data Center corroborated with NASA’s findings.
(see link below)
All this is the democrats way of taxing the hell out of us
It was bound to happen. Humans may be speeding up the process, but the earth has been getting warmer for millions of years -- it's the lingering death of the Ice Age.
Where I live in the South it has been approximately 80 degrees as the high all this month. This time last year, it was approximately 60 degrees as the high. I looked it up.
What the heck? By May it will be over 100 or something?
right on r19
Here is what Secretary of Defense Cohen said on the subject in 1997 "Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."
The original Department of Defense memo has been scrubbed from their site.
Consider also the extremely violent weather that preceded this stretch of very warm weather.
Yes, R19, it's a global conspiracy, and if you go visit the glaciers of the world you will encounter thousands of UN scientists using hair dryers to make them melt.
"Just because NYC is having an unseasonably warm few days in mid-March does not constitute proof of anything. We had an unseasonable snowstorm last week on the Oregon coast."
Exactly, you idiot. And if you had half a brain, you would realize that global warming DOES NOT mean it's always going to be warmer everywhere on the planet, all the time. Global warming results in CLIMATE CHANGE -- for example, unseasonable snowstorms in Oregon. Is it within your intellectual capacity to grasp this simple fact?
Of course it is not just a few days of warm weather. This is predicted to last for at least two or three weeks. May temps in March. In much of the country. After a mild winter. Probably not just a blip.
I acknowledge the records, I believe in global warming/climate change.
But, what idiot thinks this current heat wave means "climate change is upon us." It's been upon us for a while now.
Meanwhile, here in Anchorage, it's 20 degrees and we are three inches from a 60 year snow record. And it was one of the coldest winters in a while too.
This is a La Nina cycle, and it's projected to last a while. We are also at the nadir of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.
Ask your gods for an El Nino. Then the rest of you will have the gloom and rain you need, and up here we can have a glorious summer and the smokejumpers can make lots of OT.
This is the second year in Ohio that has gone straight from Winter to Summer.
[quote]Exactly, you idiot. And if you had half a brain, you would realize that global warming DOES NOT mean it's always going to be warmer everywhere on the planet, all the time. Global warming results in CLIMATE CHANGE -- for example, unseasonable snowstorms in Oregon. Is it within your intellectual capacity to grasp this simple fact?
Calm down, shrieking hysterical Mary. I was commenting on the fact that OP was in his title suggesting that the "mutant heat wave shattering record after record" was somehow proof of global warming. It's not.
I believe in global warming, but the heat wave in NYC is not necessarily proof of it. There were heat waves before there was any such thing as global warming. That was my point.
If you're going to carry on in such a nelly hysterical manner with such little provocation, I'd suggest you arrange to have yourself sedated before you read threads on this forum. Frankly, you sound like a mess.
The earth has a relatively thin atmosphere (think of it like a piece of paper held a few inches above a table) - so small changes in temperature have conversely very large changes in atmosphere - like how much water it has in it - so a tenth of a degree warmer means maybe 1% more of the oceans evaporate, and maybe 1% more of the ice caps melt - these mean a wetter atmosphere, more violent storms, it does not mean that England is going to have tropical weather - the warming rate is accelerating and directly proportional to specific gas concentrations that increase with industrial pollution - if you want to believe that the changes would still take place and be accelerating even if we had not industrialized the planet - well that's a theory, but it's not going to change the fact that it is warming, and the cycle is accelerating and scientists tell us that at the current rate absolutely catestrophic changes will take place leaving formerly inhabitable areas unlivable - I guess all the republicans are busy building the arc to care?
Tornado season seemed to start a lot earlier this year.
relax, R30. DL has proven that New Yorkers are rude effeminates.
[quote]CLimate change is a natural phenomenon. Humans contribute very little to it.
Link to the "scientician" who believes this because actual scientists don't.
[quote]But, what idiot thinks this current heat wave means "climate change is upon us." It's been upon us for a while now.
I think the reason people say it's upon us is that we're now seeing more "tangible" evidence. We need to see tangible evidence because we're dealing with complete morons on the right who think evolution doesn't exist because they haven't seen a monkey change into a human before their eyes. The scariest part of that mentality? Someone who thinks like this was very recently taken seriously has a political candidate - and the right isn't getting any brighter.
Oh My God!!! We are all going to cooked to death. Global warming is upon us Global warming is upon us. Sacrifice your youngest child (adopted or artificially inseminated) Pray to the great god AL GORE to absolve us from our sins.
Then legislate us till we cannot breath.
The global warming hoax is just the liberals way of controlling all aspects of your life then taxing you for it.
as, not has*
It's not enough the 'mo conservatives are dumb as hell, but they're getting so boring. You pretty much know which threads they'll infest and which ones they're too cowardly to enter.
How about we just make every thread about the countless anti-gay bills being pushed by Republicans in several states? It'll guarantee we never see another 'mo cabinette on DL.
OMG! it's almost as hot as when all those records were set in.... the 1930s!!
I saw a wondrous movie on cable last week called "Dante's Peak" with Pierce Brosnan and Linda Hamilton. In one scene, a volcanic eruption caused a lake to become so acidic that it ate through the bottom of a metal boat, prompting an elderly grandmother to leap out of the boat and guide it to shore. Unfortunately, she died as a result of her bravery.
These are the kinds of horrific things that we can look forward to if climate change continues.
R39, if Will Smith hasn't made a movie about it, it hasn't happened. Linda Hamilton and Pierce Brosnan my hot ass.
"The weather is starting to remind me of the 'Midnight Sun' episode of Twilight Zone."
See, that's proof that global warming is not occurring! Spoiler alert: i
I's just the opposite. It's getting colder just like in "The Midnight Sun" episode.
Told you so.
We had our air conditioning on in Atlanta this week. We have worn shorts for over a month. This is crazy
In NY, (sorry but it's where I live and so I check the NY weather) is supposed to be near 80. I've lived here all my life and don't remember 80 degrees in March, even late March.
It was so hot in Central Park today the muggers were carrying their own misters.
My zone 5 area of Chicago is supposed to adopt the weather of New Orleans in the next few decades.
My flower beds are going to rock!
Please note: Tomorrow is the first day of planting for Spring and I don't want to see any of that bullshit butterfly bush/can-o-wildflowers in your gardens.
Seeds and bulbs can be safely planted. Keep shredded ex-partner clothing handy for covering plants during the last blizzard (April or May).
So far: late blooming dwarf iris, forgotten amaryllis, cone flowers, Lupins!, and a bunch of crocus that I found on sale.
r43, there have been plenty of 70+ degree days and some 80+ degree days in March in NYC. I remember being a kid wearing shorts one day and a snowsuit the next. March is unpredictable.
This is not the year it started. It's been going on for a while. The explanation for the unusually warm winter this year is the jet stream has been over Canada and not further south. It will run further south in the next few years and we will not have as warm winters. But yes, in general global warming is upon us and reflected all over the world, most radically at the poles. And the rapidity of it, the quickest warming in our planets history, is due to fossil fuel oxidation as proved by the carbon isolated from CO2 in the atmosphere.
My guess is that within 50 years the crises causes by climate warming are going to override geopolitical and nation-state disputes as the human race as a whole becomes progressively more threatened by ensuing disasters.
Dought and starvation will probably kill most of the population.
[quote]Dought and starvation will probably kill most of the population.
A good start.
We've had record highs for the past few days in the snow belt of central NY state. It is not supposed to be high 70s/low 80s in mid March. More like a high of 45-50.
I worry about the planet if this shit continues, but having the daffodils bloom a couple weeks earl;y is nice, and I love not having to scrape frost, let alone ice and snow, off my car every morning.
Supposedly we're zone 5 here too. I may start planting annuals outdoors in late April instead of mid-May as my mom always did.
The heating cost savings from a very mild winter may be eaten up by excessive air conditioning starting soon. Or this could all change and we could get hit by a big snowstorm and freezing temps well into April, as used to happen here every few years.
As it is, I'm wearing shorts and flip-flops outside after work way earlier in the year than usual
Listen to the Republican propaganda machinery long enough and you are convinced that you are going to freeze to death, because the liberal media tells you it's warm.
A longer growing season? We're all going to starve!
We beat a record set in 1921, but you have to ask yourself, what was going on in 1921?
You mean, like all the other epochs of ice ages and global warmings that have occurred throughout the earth's 4 billion-plus-years' history, way before man showed up on the planet?
Oh, but WE'RE gonna save the Earth!
R55 might be a petroleum executive, quietly putting his oceanside property up for sale and buying up huge, inland, high-altitude properties with freshwater access.
[quote] A longer growing season? We're all going to starve!
When the wheat and corn belt turns to one giant dust-bowl because of prolonged heat and drought, yeah, we just might.
[quote] May temps in March. In much of the country. After a mild winter. Probably not just a blip.
The winters of 2009-10, 2010-11 were unseasonably cold and snowy. Now it's very mild (and still winter). So what does that mean? That we'll have 2 cold snowy winters for every one mild, warm winter?
Is there an app for this weather?
This thread is the biggest MARY!-fest I have ever seen.
"I was commenting on the fact that OP was in his title suggesting that the "mutant heat wave shattering record after record" was somehow proof of global warming. It's not. I believe in global warming, but the heat wave in NYC is not necessarily proof of it. There were heat waves before there was any such thing as global warming. That was my point."
More idiocy. First of all, the OP linked to a graph and an explanation of the highly unusual heat wave that has recently been occurring throughout large areas of the U.S. -- not just in NYC, you illiterate fool.
Anyway, the larger point is that a March heat wave in New York and other parts of the country does not prove anything in and of itself, but combined with other climate change data, it's very alarming.
Understand now, you cretin?
I understand you have severe anger issues.
We used to call the "El Nino" and "La Nina" years.
Haha. You people are so amazing: you criticize people of faith for believing in fairytales yet you believe in the extremist fictional account of global warming...
R64- no not extremist at all. Recent PBS special on global warming being actually accelerated if not caused by fossil fuel oxidation narrated by a Republican scientist from MIT. They know because carbon in the atmosphere emitted from fossil fuel oxidation can be distinguished from other sources.
Scientist, by and large, by temperment and method, are conservative- but open minded. That means they are careful. There is more agreement in the scientific community on climate change and its causes than there there is the infectious disease community on the cause of AIDs (HIV). Republican find the outlyer who they then make expert. In other nations of the world, they simply think American (Republicans) are crazy.
I think they are just willfully ignorant, like it appears you are R64.
How old are you- if in your 20s- boy are you gonna see some big trouble in your lifetime.
PS, this freaky winter in the midwest and east in particular is due to the north shift of the Jet Stream. It will be colder again in the immediate winters to come- but not on average.
The five highest average temps for winter (including this year) have all happened in the last 20 years since records have been kept staring late 19th century.
[quote]When the wheat and corn belt turns to one giant dust-bowl because of prolonged heat and drought, yeah, we just might.
I'm a low carber who only eats grass-fed beef. I'll be fine as I'm stock piling canned goods and freezing meat.
So long, suckers!
They were spraying the skies like mad here last weekend. There were at least a dozens planes belching out thick white chemtrails in criss-cross patterns.
I live out in the middle of nowhere and there's no way these were all commercial planes unless there are multiple simultaneous flights from Nova Scotia to Montreal.
This has to have some effect on our weather as the chemtrails turned the bright blue sky into a pale milky white one.
But no one will tell us what these planes are for or who is behind the use of them.
over 80 degrees by the end of the week
[quote]I'm a low carber who only eats grass-fed beef.
you do realize that grass ALSO doesn't grow in a dustbowl. so no cows either, bunky.
R68? I's really, really cold up there. Jet fuel is burned for a plane's energy and the spent fumes contain water which crystalizes into ice in the cold air. It's not too hard to figure it out if you studied science in junior high school.
And they're called contrails, not chemtrails.
No, R71, these are much thicker than contrails and they cling to the sky and broaden and turn into clouds that whiten the entire sky starting at the horizon level.
I know what contrails look like. These are an entirely different thing. They are applied in patterns, usually in parallel or perpendicular lines, sometimes at 30 degree angles and almost always a day before precipitation is in the forecast.
We've only been seeing them overhead for the last 12-15 years. It amazes me that people ignore them, dismiss them or pretend they are the same thing as normal contrails.
All contrails thicken and disperse over time.
But never mind --you've convinced me that pilots are spraying unknown chemicals in the sky to somehow adversely affect the earth and these pilots never confess and tell us what secret chemicals they are spraying, even though said chemicals are affecting the pilots as well as their families here on earth.
In the evening it smells like a brush fire, almost everynight. The air is so thick you can't breath. It's like I live in Jakarta.
Beautiful mid 70's here ( same warm forecast thru end of March at least ) in Toronto for almost two weeks now, my grass has gone from dead to needing a mowing in about the past 4 days. No snow all winter, never had to wear boots, not even once.
Absolutely gorgeous weather, crystal clear clue skies.... I guess there are worse ways the world could be ending.
[quote] No snow all winter, never had to wear boots, not even once.
nor here, very strange.
fuck off, It's late March, it's twenty degrees above normal where I am. You'll get hot weather in two months, Guaranteed.
I'm sorry, it is my fault. My pussy stinks of greenhouse gasses.
The air conditioner in Ohio in March?!
At least we are getting a little rain here. Without rain, we die.
Temperatures well into the 80s today in northern Michigan utterly demolished daily records and set all-time March records, in several cases for the second consecutive day. At Marquette, the daily average temperature was slightly above the normal for mid-July. From the National Weather Service:
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 87 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE CHERRY
CAPITAL AIRPORT IN TRAVERSE CITY MI WEDNESDAY...WHICH BREAKS THE OLD
RECORD OF 74 DEGREES SET IN 1938. THIS ALSO BREAKS THE ALL-TIME
MARCH HIGH TEMPERATURE RECORD...WHICH WAS 86 DEGREES...SET JUST
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 83 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE OTSEGO COUNTY
AIRPORT IN GAYLORD MI WEDNESDAY...WHICH BREAKS THE OLD RECORD OF 57
DEGREES SET IN 1976 AND 2003. THIS ALSO BREAKS THE ALL-TIME MARCH
HIGH TEMPERATURE RECORD...WHICH WAS 80 DEGREES...SET JUST YESTERDAY.
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 85 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE PELLSTON
REGIONAL AIRPORT IN PELLSTON MI WEDNESDAY...WHICH BREAKS THE OLD
RECORD OF 53 DEGREES WHICH WAS LAST SET IN 2007. THIS ALSO BREAKS
THE ALL-TIME MARCH HIGH TEMPERATURE RECORD...WHICH WAS 84
DEGREES...SET JUST YESTERDAY.
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 85 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE ROSCOMMON
COUNTY - BLODGETT MEMORIAL AIRPORT IN HOUGHTON LAKE MI TODAY. THIS
BREAKS THE OLD RECORD OF 72 SET IN 1938 AND ALSO THE ALL-TIME MARCH
HIGH TEMPERATURE...WHICH WAS 81 DEGREES...SET JUST YESTERDAY.
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 87 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE ALPENA COUNTY
REGIONAL AIRPORT IN ALPENA MI WEDNESDAY. THIS BREAKS THE OLD RECORD
OF 68 SET IN 1946. THIS ALSO BREAKS THE MARCH ALL-TIME HIGH
TEMPERATURE RECORD FOR ALPENA...WHICH WAS 84 DEGREES...WHICH WAS
JUST SET YESTERDAY.
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 83 DEGREES WAS SET AT THE SANDERSON
FIELD AIRPORT IN SAULT STE MARIE MI ON WEDNESDAY...WHICH BREAKS THE
OLD RECORD OF 57 DEGREES SET IN 1946. TODAYS HIGH TEMPERATURE
ALSO BREAKS THE ALL-TIME MARCH HIGH TEMPERATURE...WHICH WAS 75
DEGREES SET BACK IN 1946.
THE MERCURY REACHED 81 TODAY AT THE MARQUETTE NATIONAL WEATHER
SERVICE OFFICE...BREAKING NOT ONLY THE PREVIOUS DAILY RECORD HIGH
TEMPERATURE OF 49 BUT ALSO THE ALL TIME MARCH RECORD HIGH OF 78 THAT
WAS SET ON SUNDAY...MONDAY AND TUESDAY. TODAY WAS THE FIRST TIME THE
THERMOMETER REACHED 80 AT THIS LOCATION IN MARCH. THE PREVIOUS
EARLIEST OCCURRENCE OF 80 DEGREES WAS ON APRIL 12TH IN 1968.
THE LOW TEMPERATURE THIS MORNING WAS 53...WHICH IS ALSO A NEW DAILY
RECORD HIGH MINIMUM TEMPERATURE. THE PREVIOUS DAILY RECORD WAS 34...
ESTABLISHED ON MARCH 21ST IN 2000.
NORMAL HIGH AND LOW TEMPERATURES FOR THIS DATE AT THE MARQUETTE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ARE 36 AND 16. THE OBSERVED HIGH AND LOW
TEMPERATURES TODAY ARE CLOSER TO THE NORMALS OF 77 AND 55 FOR MID
WEATHER RECORDS FOR THE MARQUETTE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE
LOCATED IN NEGAUNEE TOWNSHIP DATE BACK TO 1961.
A RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 69 DEGREES WAS SET AT INTERNATIONAL
FALLS MN TODAY. THIS BREAKS THE OLD RECORD OF 56 SET IN 1987.
SO FAR TODAY...MARCH 21ST 2012...THE TEMPERATURE AT GENERAL MITCHELL
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT [Milwaukee] HAS REACHED 84 DEGREES. THIS BEATS THE
PREVIOUS RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 75...SET IN 1938. THIS ALSO
BEATS THE RECORD FOR THE HIGHEST TEMPERATURE RECORDED IN MARCH OF 83
SO FAR TODAY...MARCH 21ST 2012...THE TEMPERATURE AT THE DANE COUNTY
REGIONAL AIRPORT IN MADISON HAS REACHED 83 DEGREES. THIS BEATS THE
PREVIOUS RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE OF 75...SET IN 1911. THIS ALSO
BEATS THE RECORD FOR THE HIGHEST TEMPERATURE RECORDED IN MARCH OF 82
DEGREES...SET MARCH 15TH 2012...MARCH 29TH 1986...MARCH 31ST
1981...AND MARCH 29TH 1910.
Preliminary record high temperatures in northern Maine this afternoon have not only crushed the previous daily records, they have also set new all-time March records by several degrees. At Houlton, where climate records date back to 1948, today's high of 79° obliterated the old record of 61° set in 1979, and it also surpassed the previous all-time March record by 4° . . . set yesterday.
At Bangor, where climate records began in 1925, today's high of 83° destroyed the previous record of 64° in 1946 by 19°. This is also a record high temperature for the month of March by a margin of 4°, and it is the earliest 80°+ temperature by 3 weeks (previous was on April 11).
At Caribou, the high of 75° smashed the old record of 57°, also in 1946, by 18°. The 64° at Caribou on Sunday was the earliest 60°+ temperature on record. Caribou also had its earliest 70° temperature yesterday (March 20) with a high of 73° (previous was on March 30). This also broke the old daily record by the incredible margin of 23° in a climate history which began in 1939. If the daily low temperature had been exceeded by a comparable amount, it would have been 32° below zero.
March 21, 5 PM CDT Update: The preliminary daily high temperature was 87° at Chicago, blowing away the previous record from 1938 by 10° and tying the second highest March temperature in 142 years.
I live in Michigan and it's been hot here. We've had our air conditioner on for three days. Trees are getting green and the magnolia trees are blooming.
I worry about the level of the Great Lakes, and I worry about the polar caps ice melting and the desalinization of the oceans, all the seaweed and algae patches strangling everything.
While weather will continue to be variable, the climate is changing just as scientists have been predicting it would for decades. Unfortunately, corporate interests and their GOP stooges effectively hijacked an incredibly important issue by promoting the idea of "controversy" and discrediting the scientific community, paying off random "experts" to downplay or dismiss what's happening. Then cable TV posed the situation as a debate, allowing actual science to be framed as part of some undefined "liberal agenda."
Now, because nothing was done about the problem, the only thing the scientists were wrong about was the timing: Things happening right now were initially predicted to happen by 2050 or later.
R89 gets it exactly right.
Only 19 percent of U.S. meteorologists saw human influences as the sole driver of climate change in a 2011 survey. And some, like the Weather Channel's founder John Coleman are vocal in their opposition.
"It is the greatest scam in history," wrote Coleman, one of the first meteorologists to publicly express doubts about climate change, on his blog in 2007. "I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; it is a SCAM."
The climate change controversy has split the American Meteorological Society, whose members are Americans' prime source of news about weather and climate
In its last official view issued in 2007, the AMS acknowledged that global warming is occurring and that human activities exacerbate it, especially the burning of fossil fuels and the release of the climate-warming gas, carbon dioxide.
Research since 2007 has only solidified climate science findings, said AMS Executive Director Keith Seitter. AMS members who disagree, he said, are in a minority, though an often outspoken one.
"There are some extremely vocal people who are arguing on that issue, but I think the science has continued to become more clear, not less so," Seitter said by telephone from Boston.
The controversy has held up the society's updated view on climate change but Seitter said expects the new AMS statement to hew closely to its position in 2007 and include updated scientific findings.
An online grassroots campaign called "Forecast the Facts" said the society needs to go beyond a strong statement on climate change and require that its members "report the current scientific consensus on climate change."
"As it stands right now, it is considered within the realm of acceptable discourse for media outlets, corporations and politicians to deny climate change and to stand in the way of much needed action," Daniel Souweine, who heads the campaign, said in an email.
Forecast the Facts is supported by the non-profit environmental groups League of Conservation Voters and 350.org, and has gotten 14,000 signatures for its petition to the AMS, Souweine said.
They will be hard-pressed to convince forecasters like Bob Breck, a weatherman at Fox Channel 8 in New Orleans who is vocal in his skepticism over climate change.
"AMS has long been dominated by people in academia, which is ok, they're the PhDs ... except those of us who I consider operational meteorologists, we were basically ignored," Breck said by telephone. "I believe in global warming cycles and we have been in a warming cycle. What I don't believe is that the driver of this current warming cycle is carbon dioxide."
Most weathermen and women have degrees in meteorology - the study of how Earth's atmosphere behaves in the short term - but few have studied climate science, which examines the wider system where weather occurs.
But meteorologists advise Americans every day, and that makes them powerful shapers of public opinion. Most don't mention global warming in their weathercasts, but many also blog, and that is often where the skepticism surfaces.
Most U.S. meteorologists -- 82 percent in a 2011 survey -- are convinced that climate is changing, but many say it's changing because of natural causes, or human and natural causes combined.
That contrasts with about 95 percent of climate scientists who are convinced that climate change is occurring and that human activities, particularly the burning of fossil fuels, are a key driver of it. This tallies with the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which reported with 90 percent certainty in 2007 on the causes and effects of climate change.
To Edward Maibach, director of the Center for Climate Change Communication at George Mason University, that split shows that efforts like Forecast the Facts are misguided.
"It presumes that AMS is part of the problem, and I actually think the AMS is doing really, really solid work to help their weathercaster members expand the way they currently define their day job to include climate education as part of their role," Maibach said.
Maibach, who tracks meteorologists' attitudes on climate change, said skeptics in the group believe their concerns are being ignored.
"They feel their views and their concerns about the science are not being taken seriously," Maibach said. "It's pretty easy to understand how one gets to a place of anger when they feel dismissed and disrespected."
Meteorologists study weather patterns over a few weeks, they are not climatologists.
I'm scared people. In the 80's for nyc in March? Something is not right. Who wants to join me in crossing the border into Canada?
Coleman is a Republican and likes his SUV.
The weather has to do with the jet stream. There is no reason why it should be hotter than normal this summer.
I live in Denver. Some of the resorts that typically open around thanksgiving didn't open until after the new year, because there was no snow. I went cross country skiing last weekend, and it was 55 degrees...the snow was slushy and melting already...but the freaky thing was that there were Mosquitos everywhere. I was bitten on the face by mosquitos while cross country skiing. I have been going to these resorts for years, and have never seen a mosquito while skiing. Seriously, I am scared. There isn't a lot we can do about it though.
R13 I was thinking the same thing. Great episode of The Twilight Zone too.
[quote]I'm scared people. In the 80's for nyc in March? Something is not right. Who wants to join me in crossing the border into Canada?
I'd be right there with you, except it's freakishly warm there, too.
The most dangerous thing about the global warming discussion is that people are actually listening to that snake oil salesman Al Gore. While he rides in his limo, flies in his private jet, while having the air conditioning run on high in his 10,000 squarefoot house.
Toronto is warmer than NYC now
The plus side is that I bet in 10 years the weather in Greenland will be downright ideal. Better buy property there now while it's cheap!
R99, he hasn't really been a part of the discussion for a while, try to keep up!
[quote]Bob Breck, a weatherman at Fox Channel 8 in New Orleans who is vocal in his skepticism over climate change
Considering his current location, he might want to rethink that opinion. Low-lying coastal regions, worldwide, will be among the first to suffer catastrophic loss, if the consensus predictions play out.
But whatever. I'm going outdoors in March after sunset (and I'm not a stupid college kid), so nothing but happy here, right?
Do you think this weather will force people to start thinking about Global Warming seriously?
IF this keeps up- will it effect the hurricane season? Will it start earlier?
Do you suppose there's any truth to the theory that the BP oil spill killed the Gulf Stream?
Europe had an unusually cold and snowy winter. Now the eastern USA is having the earliest and hottest warm spell on record.
I started this two weeks ago on DL, with my Philadelphia heatwave thread. No one was making a big deal out of it.
Air conditioning is probably going to start going on in another week or so.
I hope electric companies are prepared for everyone turning them on.
feeling the heat already
77 tomorrow in Philly.
[quote]Europe had an unusually cold and snowy winter.
Interesting, because that has been part of the scientific prediction as well. It is one reason that this should be titled global climate change and not global warming. Some places will get a lot hotter and some places will be a lot colder.
And, yes, R89 gets this exactly right.
We are going to continue along as we have been for decades: wasting, over-using, and polluting. Oh, some people will make nominal but overall insignificant efforts to be "green." But, by the time most people wake up to the need for real change it will be too late -- if it isn't too late already.
Here is a VERY handy website to refute the claims of the climate change deniers aka fuckwits.
Every single thing they claim is debunked on this site. I've won many arguments against them using the information here:
How Do The AGW People Get Away With This?
by Joe Bastardi
A few graphics make the position of the AGW people completely absurd. It’s why I am so confident as to my position on this matter, and by the way it does have something to do with the weather because if you know where the weather has been, you have a better chance to know where it’s going.
Exhibit one, from my co-partner here at WeatherBell Joe D Aleo ( I wonder if we will share the same cell when the warmingistas come to get us. And will they let us have the same tattoo artist to brand us deniers?)Which leads to the question: How do these people have any credibility? How do they get away with this? It’s mind boggling that its gotten to a point where the EPA is dictating policy based on what is an obvious fraud, or if you want to be gentle about it, creates enough doubt to back off.
Here is something to consider.
Over a year ago I advised a client of mine at the time to purchase less air conditioners than for 2010 because the summer of 2011 would be cooler than the summer of 2010. Now there is talk that this is going to turn out like last summer, but assuming it won’t, the forecast was made. BEFORE LAST SUMMER. The client had to put in their order for air conditioners a year beforehand because they were ordering them FROM CHINA.
Now every red blooded American gets up in arms because all those jobs should be here in USA, right? But why aren’t they? Well in large part because of policy that is based on absurdities like this, a factory making anything here is now being clamped down on by the EPA so hard, so why bother? Its like Obama said: ” So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can, it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that will get emitted”.
That is a direct quote and is like his energy Sec saying that they seek to take away choices that people waste their money on. Astounding that things like that are being pushed by people in control, or that they even got control in the first place. That is our fault, based on what is obviously flat out nonsense. But combine that with labor costs, and the fact the that the corporate tax rate in the US is higher than China, which few people in our nation seem to get, and this is what happens.
Now let’s say we wanted to make sure that a person here working in an air conditioner factory can make a decent wage from a helping hand ( how do like my populist line…from the Ghost of Tom Joad?) Well, get rid of the EPA running roughshod over factory owners, and lower the corporate tax rate to below China’s ( it is so hard to believe that Chinese tax rates are lower) and you will find that companies will stay here and pay a decent wage to build air conditioners, But not if you are clamping down on people based on questionable, don’t-have-a-leg-to-stand-on ideas about co2 warming the planet.
Again, it defies logic as to how they got to where they did with this issue, and the facts are there for all to see.
Joe Bastardi runs the professional weather services company Weather BELL Analytics LLC together with Joe D Aleo.
Well, we had one hell of a summer last year in Texas.
It was cold last winter, but we still didn't have the rain in the spring.
We have been getting rain this spring/winter/last 6 weeks.
Please God, don't repeat last summer. It was miserable.
[quote]Over a year ago I advised a client of mine at the time to purchase less air conditioners than for 2010 because the summer of 2011 would be cooler than the summer of 2010.
Well, that may be his first problem: he is a lousy forecaster. According to weather.com -- based on information that was provided by National Weather Service resources -- the summer of 2011 had record heat and was one of the hottest in decades.
[quote]The client had to put in their order for air conditioners a year beforehand because they were ordering them FROM CHINA.
The second problem: China is a wanton polluter.
Goddamn, high today is still only 55 degrees.
I couldn't open the slider for the cats to sniff the outside air because a brisk southeast wind off the ocean was knocking things off the table.
Where is that wind when it's dead summer, huh?
South Shore of Twin Forks, LI, NY
80 degrees and rising in Philadelphia, nearly 25 degrees warmer than usually at this time of year.
Providence, RI here. Virtually no snow this year, a couple of 1 inch or so dustings that didn't need to be picked up because the temps would go up and either rain or sunshine did it in. So in essence, the winter that wasn't.
70's and 80's past few days. In March! I notice a whole bunch of trees starting to bloom.
I'm sorry - I heard them say this was due to El Nina, but I don't buy it. Just too much weird shit happening, for example, two years ago we had massive flooding this time of year.
If we have a deep freeze in april it will be catastrophic for crops and flowers.
[quote]Here is a VERY handy website to refute the claims of the climate change deniers aka fuckwits.
Just to counter.
Here is a VERY handy website to refute the claims of warmists and their man-made global warming religion.
Well.. you're more than welcome to live in my city, OP. 3 weeks of rain EVERY SINGLE DAY, then we had two days of nice weather, the warmest being only 13 degrees, which is 55 degrees for you Americans. And now they're reporting more rain for the next two weeks, only now we won't get only rain, we'll get snow too! YAY! Can't wait for that. Seriously.. fashion in this town is rubber boots and nice rain coats, I'm not even kidding. It rains 250 days a year here, but this year it's been raining much more than usual. February was well above normal precipitation.. as was January. It's like they predicted... global warming causes more storms, more rain and more bad weather in this region, and that's just what we've been getting. It was bad last year, but it's even worse this year.. I mean, 2 sunny days in a month! the rest of the month is just hail, rain (raining down in buckets), and it's windy as fuck too. I've lost count of how many storms we've had this year.. I think it's like 10 or something, and we're only in March ffs! Yeah.. it's bad.
Where are you? Did I miss it?
R121, if you're asking me.. Bergen, Norway
Turned fucking cold again here in toronto, ius the world still ending or what????
R120, I would love your weather, but I don't love that it's being caused by climate change, which bodes ill for all of us, however it may manifest in our particular corner of the world.
Well.. it just snowed here today.. and we're in April ffs! it's been raining for weeks.. rain all winter, and when we first do get snow.. it's in fucking APRIL! :(
It cooled down for a couple of days here in Ohio, then warmed back up into the 70s.
Also, this was Ohio's warmest March since temperatures have been recorded.
I'm just so worried about Pam and Bobby, I heard there was a tornado in Dallas.
Looks like we'd better ratchet up the coal consumption!
From the message board of R130's link -
Looks like I’ll have to keep repeating this until NSIDC engages brains (hopefully).
The Arctic and Antarctic each respond oppositely to the same global forcing mechanism because one is an ocean surrounded by land and the other is land surrounded by ocean.
The key is the degree of jetstream meridionality or zonality.
In theory, more zonal jets whizzing faster round the poles tend to isolate the poles from flows of air in and out so the poles cool.
That works fine for the Antarctic as we have seen during the late 20th century but zonal jets are also associated with warmer ocean surfaces so that warmer water is able to flow into the Arctic Ocean to melt the ice and warm the air.
So Antarctic ice increases as Arctic ice decreases.
In contrast, more meridional jets allow more frequent flows of warm air in and cold air out from the poles which then warm up whilst mid latitudes cool down.
The South Pole gets warmer but meridional jets are associated with cooler ocean surfaces so after a number of years (say 10 to 15) the supply of warm water to the Arctic Ocean is cut off and the North Pole cools whilst the South Pole warms.
In fact the South Pole station has been warming up since the jets began to become more meridional around 2000. For the previous 20 years of more zonal jets the South Pole station actually got colder.
So we are now in a transition period where we just need to await the end of the current positive AMO whereupon the warm water reaching the Arctic will decline and the Arctic sea ice will begin to recover. Meanwhile the Antarctic ice should peak soon and begin to decline.
The Antarctic Peninsula behaves differently but that is off topic for the moment.
I just want cooler summers. This summer was brutal. I cant wait to officially kiss its ass goodbye next weekend.
I guess triple digit temperatures are the new normal. In So. Cal., it has been brutal. It's not just high temp, but the humidity, too. There's no breeze. The air is just not moving.
Anyone else had the opportunity to watch the planes that leave the trails over any kind of time span? This last winter in LA in Feb and March I was off work and would spend about 3 to 4 hours at the beach some days. Some days the sky would be blue and then I'd notice the planes fly over one at a time leaving criss crossing patterns in the sky. The trails would eventually spread out and become cloud cover. I saw this on more than one occasion. Some days there would already be a bit of clouds which would become more clouds after the planes had flown over.
I had a conversation with a guy at work who thinks the chem trails talk is all a bunch of bullshit even after I told him what I had seen. He said ever since he was a kind planes have flown over leaving a trail, that was nothing new.
I know what he means I saw them when I was a kid too however I had never seen more than one plane crossing overhead and the trails pretty much dissipated soon after the plane had flown by leaving little puffs that soon disappeared. They didn't hang in the sky lasting for hours as clouds. Nor where those planes flying very close in the sky they were way way up there.
So just wondering if anyone else has seen this and what you think. It was clear to me that cloud cover was deliberately being made.
From R130's link:
[quote]The global response to these signals of potential calamity has so far been feeble.
Of course. No one will take any meaningful action until it is too late.
R135 Chemtrails are absolutely real. Why people won't simply look up and acknowledge what they're seeing is frustrating and, pretty stupid, normal contrails are water vapor that dissipate in a minute to two. Chemtrails just grow and grow until the sky is covered by their parallel line or checker board pattern then it rains.
The web-like residue has been tested and contains: aluminum, barium and strontium. Their purpose has not been determined, but it's not for our betterment. Where I live in Central New York, they're making us sicker and sicker. The worst was when we had a "microburst"; a new form of severe thunderstorm that strikes without warning in an extremely small area-like a back yard.
The last one brought down hail that when it was evaporating gave off noxious fumes. Check out: "What In The World Are They Spraying?" on Google.
I've seen them, too.
What I'm most annoyed by is that they won't just do cloud seeding in SoCal on a regular basis. I'm actually moving back East next month due in large part to the lack of thunderstorms here. I can't stand it.
I'm not saying there is some conspiracy against us with the trails. I've only witnessed them over the ocean so whatever they are doing they aren't worried about what effect it will have on the oceans. Also whatever they are doing unless it is something you can get a vaccination for, it will effect them too sooner or later.
It seems to me like the trails are an attempt to control weather in some way so it kind of is an acknowledgement that they are concerned about climate change. Wish I knew what they aren't telling us about global warming.
Fox's Brian Kilmeade Calls Climate Change "The Whole Global Warming Scam"
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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