Post your spoilers here for the upcoming dramatization of the books, and not in the official GOT thread.
Are they gonna kill off Robb Stark in the show? cause he is hot.
GoT Bloggers Debate Increased Role of Robb Stark in S2
Elio García (Westeros.org editor/A World of Ice and Fire co-author): ... And to achieve this romance, they've made what feels like a very conventional choice: bring Richard Madden as Robb Stark on-screen and follow him around as a lead character.
The reasons they've given largely focus on how much they liked Richard as an actor (and he is, indeed, quite good) and they just wanted him around more; if that's the sole reason, it sounds like personal sentiment is getting in the way of bringing the text to the screen. One of the choices Martin made as a writer was to let Robb go away on campaign and simply have his exploits reported – sometimes through garbled and unclear rumors – from a distance. That was quite unusual, but it fit his very deliberate choice to not provide us a close look at any of the kings; they're always witnessed through the eyes of others.
James Poniewozik (Time’s Tuned In editor): I think there's a case for expanding Robb's presence beyond Madden being a good actor (though it's related). I will piss off fans of the books here, but it's also that Robb is simply a far more compelling character in the series than he ever was in the books. (Sorry.) To have him active in the war, yet present only through others' talking about him, would be dissonant to viewers who got used to having him close. Stannis worked as an off-screen presence in season one, but we had never physically met him. (Yes, GRRM made a narrative choice regarding the war in ACOK, but as with Littlefinger/Varys, that was also driven by his choice of POV characters – there's no equivalent of a POV frame in the TV series. Also, contra the example of Omar in The Wire, it's not as if Robb is simply irrelevant to the story at hand for a while – he's a major player, yetoff-screen.) And having him more present would presumably make his arc in Storm of Swords more affecting.
Anyway – I agree they may screw it all up if Robb's material is padded out or out of sync with the season's larger narrative, but I at least get the choice.
Elio García (Westeros.org editor/A World of Ice and Fire co-author): I'm not pissed off! But I am surprised, James, because Robb Stark's moments in the series are almost all from the books, so if he's “far more compelling” on-screen, it's either because Richard is older (lots of people have issues with Robb's age, never mind history being strewn with 15- and 16-year-old warriors and generals) or simply his personal charisma and acting, which doesn't strike me as being a knock on the writing so much as an acknowledgment of the change-of-medium thing. Having seen reactions to certain events later in the series, and fan discussion, I can say that many readers do get very attached to Robb as the representative of House Stark. So this may be a mileage-may-varies thing.
ME: A lot more of this interesting debate at the source link....
[quote]Are they gonna kill off Robb Stark in the show? cause he is hot.
If they follow the books he'll die in Season 3. I can't wait for them to film the Red Wedding.
Of course they are going to kill Robb. The Red Wedding will be happening in full effect if the HBO series gets renewed.
It will be a bigger deal in the TV medium precisely because viewers will be so much more invested in Robb Stark than you are as a reader.
I'm curious to see what changes they make this season. I have a feeling it is going to be diverging from the books more, as it must to be a successful adaptation.
Disappointed to learn to that Renly will be dead by the fifth episode of the season. I was hoping they would stretch it out so we'd get more gay scenes.
I really hope the series goes long enough to portray the Red Wedding. People are gonna be pissed! Fucking Freys!
I'm also looking forward to seeing Tyrion joust on a pig.
Here are the official descriptions for the first half of the ten-episode second season, which kicks off April 1:
Season 2, Episode 1: "The North Remembers" (April 1)
"As Robb Stark and his northern army continue the war against the Lannisters, Tyrion arrives in King's Landing to counsel Joffrey and temper the young king's excesses. On the island of Dragonstone, Stannis Baratheon plots an invasion to claim his late brother's throne, allying himself with the fiery Melisandre, a strange priestess of a stranger god. Across the sea, Daenerys, her three young dragons and khalasar trek through the Red Waste in search of allies, or water. In the North, Bran presides over a threadbare Winterfell, while beyond the Wall, Jon Snow and the Night's Watch must shelter with a devious wildling."
Season 2, Episode 2: "The Night Lands" (April 8)
"In the wake of a bloody purge in the capital, Tyrion chastens Cersei for alienating the king's subjects. On the road north, Arya shares a secret with Gendry, a Night's Watch recruit. With supplies dwindling, one of Dany's scouts returns with news of their position. After nine years as a Stark ward, Theon Greyjoy reunites with his father Balon, who wants to restore the ancient Kingdom of the Iron Islands. Davos enlists Salladhor Saan, a pirate, to join forces with Stannis and Melisandre for a naval invasion of King's Landing."
Season 2, Episode 3: "What Is Dead May Never Die" (April 15)
"At the Red Keep, Tyrion plots three alliances through the promise of marriage. Catelyn arrives in the Stormlands to forge an alliance of her own. But King Renly, his new wife Margaery and her brother Loras Tyrell have other plans. At Winterfell, Luwin tries to decipher Bran's dreams."
Season 2, Episode 4: "Garden of Bones" (April 22)
"Joffrey punishes Sansa for Robb's victories, while Tyrion and Bronn scramble to temper the king's cruelty. Catelyn entreats Stannis and Renly to forego their ambitions and unite against the Lannisters. Dany and her exhausted khalasar arrive at the gates of Qarth, a prosperous city with strong walls and rulers who greet her outside them. Tyrion coerces a queen's man into being his eyes and ears. Arya and Gendry are taken to Harrenhal, where their lives rest in the hands of "The Mountain," Gregor Clegane. Davos must revert to his old ways and smuggle Melisandre into a secret cove."
Season 2, Episode 5: "The Ghost of Harrenhal" (April 29)
"The end of the Baratheon rivalry drives Catelyn to flee and Littlefinger to act. At King's Landing, Tyrion's source alerts him to Joffrey's flawed defense plan and a mysterious secret weapon. Theon sails to the Stony Shore to prove he's worthy to be called Ironborn. In Harrenhal, Arya receives a promise from Jaqen H'ghar, one of three prisoners she saved from the Gold Cloaks. The Night's Watch arrive at the Fist of the First Men, an ancient fortress where they hope to stem the advance of the wildling army."
Well, the trailer for Season 3 us out and it starts at the end of this month. We'll need a Season III thread, but since this is a general thread for spoilers, I have to say I cannot wait for Season 3. Not only Robb Stark, but House Lannister as well.
I've read all five books. I don't see how George R.R. Martin can go much further. I see the books wrapping with a total of six or seven at most. The TV series can't go beyond five.
I base this on how disconnected and messy book four was. The plot lines meander all over the place. Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Jon Snow, Jamie Lannister, the Kaleesi, it's all a mess. I reached a point by the end of Book 5 that I didn't give a shit.
It's tooo confusing keeping up with everyone and how the landscape changes.I will say, the books grew very dark. I will be very intrested in seeing how Martin and the producers bring things together and make them coherent. It won't be easy. There's something that happens in Book 5 that I hope & pray gets changed for the HBO adaptation.
will there be any gay this season? guess not, huh?
There could be gays. Even though Renley is dead, his lover Loras is not. That was his name, right? Loras?
I bet the season 3 finale will be the red wedding, and somewhere in season 4 we'll finally see that blonde turd's wedding
There are two, and possibly three huge deaths in Season 3 if they do it correctly. The Red Wedding is only one of them. Of course, if they set up the Red Wedding properly, they will need two episodes to do it well. But they also need to do the other BIG DEATH. I pray they do it!
I was under the impression that season 3's big shock moment to end the season would be the Red Wedding.
It isn't only the Red Wedding. Yes I read all the books, but right now I can't remember if the other Big Death happens before or after the Red Wedding.
Th Red Wedding: (because someone asked for this on another thread)
Caitlyn's brother weds one of Walder Frey's daughters at Frey's castle The Twins, in part to appease Walder Frey since Robb humiliated him by breaking his promise to marry one of the other daughters the first season/in Book One, and married for love instead. What Robb and his mother Caitlyn don't know is that the wedding is really a trap to kill them both, arranged between Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister. At the given signal at the celebrations (which is the singing of the pro-Lannister song "The Rains of Castlemere," which is about how the Lannisters took revenge against a rebelling family), a melee ensues, and both Caitlyn and Robb are killed.
I don't see Diana Rigg staying around for two seasons just to poison Joffrey. Surely that wedding will happen this season as well.
Her part has been hugely increased.
It's been very clear from the titles of the episodes that the Red Wedding is taking place in the second-to-last episode (because its title in "The Rains of Castlemere," the song that is played at the wedding to signal the attack on Caitlyn and Robb). There's still the wedding of Sansa and Tyrion which has to take place after that wedding before Joffrey's wedding, so it's extremely unlikely they will squeeze those both into the one episode.
I am predicting the Tyrion/Sansa wedding will be the last episode of the season, and the Joffrey/Margaery wedding will be near the beginning of next season.
But they are supposedly expanding Olenna's part to give Diana Rigg more to do, because she's a great actress playing a great character. We've been promised scenes with her interacting with Cersei and Twin Lannister, and maybe also with Joffrey.
There is no reports of them filming that wedding. We found out during film that they filmed Sansa/Tyrions wedding for episode 8 and the Red Wedding for episode 9 but ZERO indication that Joffrey/Marg's wedding was filmed.
It also makes sense to save it, as that can be a big "event" for next season. The introduction of the Red Viper, the Wedding, the trial by combat, the death of Tywin all make for a good season 4.
I can't see this series lasting beyond five or six years. Martin has run out of material. At least there is nothing beyond Book 5 and they are already using parts of it. I fear that he & they will write beyond book 5 out of necessity and it won't be up to the quality of the first five books.
So the do Jeoffrey and Tywin in season four. Then what? At what point will they focus on the Wall and what happens there? They have some major events coming at the wall. Will they also load up season four with that?
They can't do this meandering five minutes here and five minutes there when they get to that part of the story. Season five will have to be all about The Wall and the events there and then they have to deal with Dani's dragons. That's it. So OK, six seasons.
Supposedly tomorrow night's episode will feature the death of a major character who has been with the show since the first season. the show is not sticking necessarily to the books, so we've been told the character could be anyone.
I can't think who it could be. In the books Ser Rickard Karstark dies early a the beginning of "A Storm of Swords", but otherwise I can't figure out who it could be, and he's hardly a major character.
If true, maybe it's someone like Rosé, who was created for the series... Or maybe Osha, who disappears with Rickon. We don't know what happened to her in the books yet, but the writers probably do... Though I do wonder when they'll send Rickon off to Skaagos. In the book, he leaves right from Winterfell.
Oh! As I was typing, it occurred to me. Must be Joer Mormont being killed at Craster's Keep.
[quote]I can't see this series lasting beyond five or six years. Martin has run out of material. At least there is nothing beyond Book 5 and they are already using parts of it. I fear that he & they will write beyond book 5 out of necessity and it won't be up to the quality of the first five books.
What are you talking about? Martin is five books into a seven book series, everyone knows this.
They are not even close to using plots from book 5 in the show.
Book 3 will be nicely spread out to the end of season 4, there's plenty of material for it, perhaps pulling in some Riverlands and Eyrie material from book 4 to keep certain characters moving along. If they combine books 4 and 5, they could pretty easily spread it across seasons 5 and 6. It's also possible they'll pull some Mereen material from book 5 into season 4 and spread Dani's story out a bit, which I think would be beneficial.
If they plan on introducing Dornish characters and the new Iron Island characters, they'll need the extra time to build them up so the audience isn't left scratching theirs heads more than usual. Who knows, maybe book 6 will come out next year and provide enough material for seasons 6 or 7 in 2016/2017. Beyond that, who knows? GRRM should be locked up in a room until he finishes these damned books.
[quote]Who knows, maybe book 6 will come out next year
HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*wipes tear away*
Oh that was great. No, seriously...
Do you guys think I should read the books before I start watching the show?
I want to do right by this series and not miss out on huge plot/ character details. Also, is it a long read? I don't mind at all if it takes a while, just asking!
[quote]Also, is it a long read?
No, they're just a few short stories. You'll finish them in an afternoon.
I think the only way they would conceivably fit Joffrey"s death into this season is have the Lannisters celebrating the results of the Red Wedding and boom. Can't see the show doing 3 weddings in three episodes back to back. Jack Gleeson, who plays Joffrey, has stated he is done with acting once he is done with GoT. That's my only argument for Joffrey's death happening this season, so they don't have to bring him back for a couple of episodes. It"s more likely that Joffrey dies in early season 4 though.
All of that being said, I dread the Red Wedding. Hated reading it in the book and I know, while it will be well done and quite a spectacle on screen, I'm going to hate seeing it happen. I am going to miss Robb and Catelyn on the show. Both actors are fantastic.
So no major character died tonight, but they did set up a couple. Old Bear Mormont at Craster's should happen pretty soon. The little Lannister cousins being held captive at Riverrun will no doubt be killed by Lord Karstark, who Robb will then behead... They'll probably use that as another omen of his decline and ultimate demise at the Red Wedding.
Can't wait for Zombie Catelyn!
James Hibberd who does the Game of Thrones Entertainment Weekly recaps has stated that next Sunday has a scene that was so well done and one of GoT's best yet, that he watched it 6 times in a row. I think it’s the moment when Dany double-crosses the Astapor Slaver in the most underhanded, violent, and oh so exciting way that will finally remove any remaining doubt that she is the Dragon and that she’s more than capable of getting her Seven Kingdoms back. It’s my all time favorite GoT moment, at least at this point (5 books) into the story.
I hope you're right, r35 and thanks for bringing that over from the other thread. It almost feels like they're moving her story forward a bit quickly.
I assume that they will merge Astapor and Yonkai for the sake of clarity, and have her march right up to Mereen. That will have her ending the season where she left off at the end of book 3... Only thing is, they're supposedly spreading book 3 out for two seasons. Since she was absent in book 4, they'll have to start pulling book 5 material for her by the beginning of next season.
Maybe I'm wrong about nixing Yonkai, but that's the feeling I have. Plus, they didn't leave a space for it in the opening credits map, but there is a little placeholder in there where Mereen should be.
r36, I think they will save some of her march through Essos for next season and remember, they only include the city in the opening credits if they're showing, or make a strong reference to, in that particular episode. The Dany Astapor rope-a-dope did take place, if I remember correctly, in the first half of Book 3 so the TV show seems to be on the right pace.
I'm also guessing that even though the Red Wedding takes place after Joffrey's Purple Wedding in Book 3, we're getting the Red Wedding this episode. They wouldn't dare leave out the great character Oberyn Martell. He wasn't cast this season and he's definitely at the Purple Wedding.
I'm so excited because starting with this week's episode, GoT is about to KICK SERIOUS ASS and will be the most talked about show of the day.
Since we're trading in spoilers, R33, you shouldn't suppose that we're done with Catelyn just because she gets killed at the Red Wedding.
Half the point of Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire) is that the reawakening of the dragons brings about a sympathetic reawakening of magical forces in the world. The Warlocks of Qarth already understood this. I hope the series won't mess up the motif.
[quote]Who knows, maybe book 6 will come out next year and provide enough material for seasons 6 or 7 in 2016/2017. Beyond that, who knows?
The showrunners have George's gameplan for where he wants all the characters to end up so they have made it clear they are going to go ahead with the show regardless of if the books are out or not.
[quote]It almost feels like they're moving her story forward a bit quickly.[/quote]
Actually they are pretty much going on target. Dany's storyline is backed in ASOS and she does get her army fairly early on. They will definitely have Yunkai. That is where the Mysha scene happens that is the title of the last episode.
They are going to save Mereen for next season, Dany is already going to have to spend an annoyingly long time there without introducing it early.
I wonder if the banging of the drums during the Red Wedding massacre will be kept in the show. I sure hope so. When I was reading that part in the book, Martin wrote it so well that I could actually hear the constant banging of drums as everything was being played out.
Fantastic episode this week.
People keep wondering why they continue to make a big deal about Pod. In the books, nothing much happens with him between now and when he's "hanged" with Brienne. I wonder what the writers know about him that we do not, or if they're just having a bit of fun with a supposedly very shy character. Any speculation?
I read some speculation that the Catelyn Stark vision on the tree was something of an omen regarding Lady Stoneheart. I watched it again and still didn't think much of it. Any thoughts?
Bumping this for the person who asked about the Red Wedding in the episode thread.
It is happening in episode 9 of this season. And yes Robb and Catelyn are killed along with many Northern Lords.
Catelyn will be revived as "Lady Stoneheart" but she is still dead.
Characters do die in this story, a lesson that Ned's death is meant to have made clear.
Thanks R43, that was really nice of you to respond so quickly to my questions in the other thread.
Would you mind explaining 'Lady Stoneheart'? Does Catelyn Stark return as a ghost with a new personality, or did you mean the actress is taking on a completely new role?
Too bad about the Stark thing.
She returns basically as a revived corpse. She can't talk except in whispers due to her cut throat. They waited too long to revive her after her death so she decomposed a bit.
r45, that's awesome! A zombie!! Very cool. Look forward to that.
Also hope they'll speed up the Dany and dragons storyline. I have a crush on her hot daddy knight and hope he isn't killed off.
I was under the impression that Lady Stoneheart isn't so much a zombie as she is someone like Beric Dondarrion who's been reanimated. The reason that Lady Stoneheart is described as looking so fucked up is because as someone already mentioned, she was dead for a few days before revival along with the cut throat and the face scratches she inflicts upon herself during her breakdown before getting her throat slashed.
I hope they show the breakdown/scratches in the episode. I think this would be a great acting opportunity for Cat's portrayer Michelle Fairley who I really like.
Any thoughts or opinions on who should play Prince Oberyn Martell? My pick is Oded Fehr from The Mummy. I hope they stay faithful to the look of the Martells and the Kingdom of Dorne. From the read it's written in the books, they're the only major kingdom of Westeros that are mainly made up of people of color.
BUMP for people who want to post spoilers about the coming weddings or anything else.
What's the fannish thinking behind Daario supposedly being a lost Lannister? He's way too young for that.
Why do people think that the magic is returning to the world as a result of the dragons being born? There were dragons 300 years prior when the Targs came to Westeros and there wasn't an invasion of Wights then. Any theories? My guess is the weakness of the man in the tree. Is he supposed to be Bran the builder?
The guy in the tree is the three-eyed crow, Brynden Rivers. He's a bastard-born Targaryen who was legitemized at some point and fought for his father, the king, many many years ago. He's an albino with one eye.
Too young to be a lost Lannister? That makes no sense.
He isn't a lost Lannister because they have not lost any Lannisters. He is just Fabio.
Brynden became the three-eyed crow about 100 years prior to the books. The last dragon died about 50 years prior to that, so I'm not sure there's a connection. I thought it was implied in A Feast for Crows that the Septons had something to do with the death of the dragons & trying to keep magic out of the world. Or am I making that up?
I liked the season finale for the most part. I was a little disappointed that Coldhands wasn't seen or referred to at all. I also don't recall anyone telling Sam to keep Bran's existence a secret, which is a somewhat important point.
I understand that killing off all 3 kings would have been too much to fit in this season, but it does leave Melissandre's whole spell-casting a bit of a let down, having to wait another year to see Balon and Joffrey killed off. It's good they showed Balon, otherwise the audience would probably have forgotten who he is.
I was really hoping they'd show Lady Stoneheart as a teaser for next season, but no luck. I guess in reality she's hardly even a presence in the books. She shows up at the end of book 3, then only shows up one more time for Brienne's trial. I don't know that they can really stretch that very much over the course of the next 2 seasons.
I haven't read the books but I thought Lady Stoneheart was an important character...
Even if she is a relatively minor character, show Lady Stoneheart's resurrection would have made for a much better ending than seeing Dany free more slaves or spending more time with Theon who serves absolutely no purpose. Jaime's reunion with his family would have made for a better end to the season than the crap we ended up with last night.
Lady Stoneheart has only appeared twice in the books, iirc. Once at the end of book 3 with the Frey hanging, again at the end of book 4 when she tries to hang Brienne and Podrick. At this point, it's unclear what her importance to the story is, aside from snatching up unsuspecting Freys and such.
r58, if I remember correctly, she does show up again somewhere in Book 5 and talks Brienne honoring her oath of duty to her when she was Lady Catelyn Stark and sends her to fetch Jaime Lannister. I would be surprised and annoyed if Martin doesn't follow up on that in Book 6. What would be the point of bringing Catelyn, a polarizing yet popular character, back from the dead if he didn't have a grand plan for her.
R59, I felt that's how the season should've ended - with Cat coming back from the dead.
The Khaleesi as Abe Lincoln didn't do it for me.
Who do you think should be cast as Ser Oberyn Martell? I vote for Oded Fehr from The Mummy series
R61, Oded Fehr is very good choice for the Red Viper. I'd also like to see Naveen Andrews or Alexander Siddig be considered for the role. Anyone of those 3 would make me happy.
Regarding Lady Stoneheart, I hope that's not omitted in future seasons. I want her to get her revenge.
r62, I think Naveen Andrews or Alexander Siddig would be excellent choices as well. I just hope they cast people of color as the Martells because that's how they're described in the books.
I can't imagine the two Davids omitting Lady Stoneheart. Martin wouldn't have brought her back without a good reason and Lady Catelyn Stark, while somewhat polarizing, was a far more popular character than her son Robb. I think it was her RW death that was the most devastating for most viewers plus Michelle Fairley is just too damn good.
R63, you get total agreement from me about Michelle Fairley. I think she was one of the most under-appreciated actors on the show. She was fantastic as Catelyn, I do hope we get to see her take on Lady Stoneheart.
I will miss Richard Madden on the show, though. I would not mind if Robb turns up in a later green dream of Bran's (even though that has not happened yet in the book. If Khal Drogo could be brought back for the House of the Undying, why not Robb for a later vision of Bran's?)
The Martells should be POC, Martin did describe them that way. I think they have a good chance of getting someone like Fehr, Siddig or Andrews for the Red Viper, since the part is probably only going to require a season's commitment. And it will be a much discussed part.
I predict that Ser Oberyn Martell has the potential to be very popular and would serve as a great intro of sorts to the other Martells that will show up in (hopefully) Season 5.
I hope they do the Red Viper and all the Martells justice. That could be a lot of fun.
Of those mentioned, I'd go with Naveen Andrews.
NAVEEN ANDREWS definitely.
Best idea ever.
He was freaking hot in LOST.
I was leaning towards Oded Fehr but the more I think about it, Naveen Andrews would be great.
Ugh no Naveen Andrews is fucking awful. Oded Fehr is just about ten thousand times hotter.
I vote for Alexander Siddig. He's physically more the way I imagined Oberyn. I can see him dancing around The Mountain. Oded Fehr is hot, but I don't think he's be quite that quick.
Oded Fehr is truly hot but I agree that he might be not be the right physical type for the role. The Red Viper has to be, well, viper-like. Fast, deadly, very light on his feet and so quick moving you can barely follow him with your eyes.
I went with Andrews, I've always found him hot. I don't actually know who Siddig is - sorry.
r71, Alexander Siddig played Dr. Julian Bashir on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
I read all the books, but i can't exactly recall what happens with Jorah? He betrays Dani, right? Or does she just THINK he betrays her and banishes him?
Also, what happens with that Mhysa scene? That's obviously racially loaded and HBO is always extremely modern and aware about racial issues. Does Dani get fucked over by the Yunkai slaves or what - I forget.
Jorah was there on orders from the small council to join up with Dani & her brother, spy on them, then kill them when they said to. Doing so would clear his name for his past crimes and allow him to come back to Westeros. Even though he disobeyed orders and became completely loyal to Dani, he never told her about his true original purpose.
I don't remember the books completely, but after Barriston arrives, he comes clean to Dani. I'm not sure if Barriston tells her or what. Anyway, she's pissed that he didn't tell her sooner and considers it a betrayal. He's then banished and runs off to Volantis where he eventually traps Tyrion, intending to bring him back to her as an offering of sorts.