I can't defend the Catholic church, but I will say that I defend the Catholic people.
It is possible to have faith even when you don't agree with the church doctrine. I know many Catholics who pray for a time when church leadership will be more enlightened. In the meantime, they don't give up trying to do good work.
I have met many Catholic priests. They are all of them creepy, stupid, and dishonest.
"My friend Barbara, the daughter of the deceased woman, was denied communion at her mother’s funeral. She was the first in line and Fr. Guarnizo covered the bowl containing the host and said to her, “I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman and that is a sin according to the church.” To add insult to injury, Fr. Guarnizo left the altar when she delivered her eulogy to her mother. When the funeral was finished he informed the funeral director that he could not go to the gravesite to deliver the final blessing because he was sick."
Amazing they continue their douchey and unChristian behavior even at a time when they need better press. Funny, the very Jesus they teach about was a very loving, tolerant indiviual who accepted everyone, even if he did not agree. I remember a priest in the parish where I went to grade school who was appalled that my sister went to her best friend's wedding because she did not get married in the church and my sister was wrong to attend that wedding. I hate these bastards and their made up rules.
Plus, how did he KNOW?
Seriously. For all he knew, she was living as a celibate. He DIDN'T know, but he used his "power" as a priest to inflict more pain on a woman who had lost her mother.
What Would Jesus Do?
Most likely, based on the stories in the Bible, he would have welcomed her and comforted her. He wasn't as picky and judgmental as the men who claim to carry his teachings today.
That's wrong and indefensible. On the other hand, I know of two instances when priests have really stepped up and helped people. First was with my family when my grandfather died. We're all a bunch of lapsed Catholics, I hadn't set foot in a church in 20 years or more. He gave us all absolution so we could receive Communion. Basically I was forgiven for any possible sin I may have committed. It was really important to my grandmother so I went so I am glad I did it.
A second is when a coworker's college-age son committed suicide. The Catholic church is not supposed to perform full funeral rights for people who commit suicide. The priest did a full funeral mass and said this young man died from Hopelessness. He actually gave a very moving eulogy that brought a lot of comfort to those who were there.
Jeffrey Dahmer was gay.
Could you defend HIM?
Nah, didn't think so.
Considering how many priests are gay or pedophiles, its hard to believe this story.
r8 I don't get your point.
Catholics and their hierarcy are all the most immoral people on the face of the planet.
For centuries, Catholic priests have been sexually molesting children. For centuries, the Catholic hierarchy has been keeping this dirty little secret. And for centuries, Catholics have let this disgusting nonsense play out without any demand for accountability or punishment for the perpetrators.
Then, in the ultimate act of demagoguery, Catholics bitch about how their religious freedom is being impacted, and how the government is trying to infringe on their faith. How about the Catholic Church and Catholics spare us its moral relevancy, as well as letting the judicial system of the United States take care of the Church's pedophile problem, since the Church is unwilling to do so.
There are just as many stories as R7 provided as there are stories about the priest in OP's story. R4 equals the douchey as he paints a broad "they" in order to smear some who are good, caring and honest men.
Though I'm not a member of any church, I've been to Catholic funerals for gays, lesbians and drag queens. They were treated with dignity and respect.
Probably would have stayed if the daughter had been a teen-aged boy.
Wow. The lesbian daughter first posted this on Reddit the other day. I didn't bother paying much attention to it because she had posted it in the atheism subreddit.
Link goes to her original Facebook post which someone captured to an image file:
Um. excuse me sir?
Don't nuns live with other women?
That is great you had such positive experiences, r7, but does rather prove the point of just how shabbily the woman in teh link was treated due to her being gay in comparison.
Priest was probably afraid she'd recognize him from his other favorite place to be on his knees.
Understand the years and magnitude of social conditioning Catholics go through all their lives, a single post on DL is not going to counter all of that.
Catholics have be conditioned to reject logic and facts.
You cannot limit this to Catholics. I'm sure any good Pentecostal minister would have done the same.
That said, I hope he's chastised for this, though he'd probably like it.
[quote] When the funeral was finished he informed the funeral director that he could not go to the gravesite to deliver the final blessing because he was sick."
He still is.
[quote] Don't nuns live with other women?
yes but they are all brides of Christ!
None of this would matter if people woke up to the fact that organized religion makes no sense at any level, and just refused to go along with it.
A Catholic Church (or any church for that matter) without a congregation won't last long.
Organized religion (any of them) is the root of all evil in this world.
Wow, 27 posts and no Catholics weighing in? The woman who wrote this article is astoundingly ill informed for someone who claims to have gone to catholic school. A priest CAN NOT give communion to someone who has not received the sacrament (people of other faiths, for example). He also can not give the communion to anyone who has committed mortal sin without confession. This priest must have had prior knowledge of her lifestyle and the fact that she was willfully "unrepentant."
Not judging. Not saying it's right. Just explaining the "rules" to all of you who are unaware of the fact that you can't just go into a Catholic church and take communion because you feel like it. Doesn't matter if it's the funeral of your mom or any other reason. Lots of people--faithful, practicing Catholics can't take communion--ie. divorced people who remarry w/o an annulment, etc.
Catholic priests are the scum of the earth. They are all AIDS infected dick hounds looking to spread the virus to little boys. Look at the pope, he's got aids neck.
I was raised Catholic, but my father was a Protestant. I did not understand why he never went up for Communion. One day I asked him and he said, "Because I don't play by the house rules." And the house rules are: must be a Catholic in a state of grace. He was neither, so he didn't go up to the Communion rail.
This thread makes me want to walk around the corner to that pedophile house of hate and shit on the fucking cross hanging in the courtyard. Fuck the catholic church right up it's aids infected ass. Do nuns fuck little girls up the ass?
I has some of the best sex I ever had with a Catholic priest.
I didn't know he was a priest until he left my bed to go get ready for "work" at 4:00 am Sunday morning.
He was smokin hot. I was not happy when I found out what he was.
R29. I'll think I'll go take communion tomorrow then turn around and spray it like buttermilk out of my ass and all over that priests face. Yep gurl, anybody can take communion. That's my rule
R29 I think your information is old. Catholics invite all baptized christians to receive communion - no one is refused - a person is not supposed to partake for the reasons you have stated, true, however it's not up to the priest to decide. I was Catholic from birth and stopped going to church when I was about 22, from the time I knew I was gay (18 or so) I stopped taking communion at mass.
What are the first words a little catholic boy says?
He hurt me in the butt, mommie
Don't care and I'm not catholic or religious. If he wants to walk out so what. Who gives a flying fuck? Did she die of obesity?
You are wrong, r35. The text at the link (from 1996) is printed in the back of every missalette to this day.
R29, perhaps the "rules" of the Catholic religion prohibit gay relationships, but let me tell you that there is nothing that Jeasus Christ taught that prohibits compassion and understanding. This is what pisses me off about ALL christian religions. They like to blame Christ for their beliefs, for their prejudices, for their warped righteousness. If anyone would do a simple study of what Christ taught, what HE taught, not what is interpreted by any organization, but what HE said, you would find nothing but compassion, understanding . . . and don't anyone ever forget that his one show of anger, his one major temper tantrum, was towards the money lenders.
Good Lord, how can people forget that he even provided more wine at a wedding??!!!
I bet if instead of being born a lesbian she chose to be a child molester or a murderer during her life time the priest would have stayed. That priest is a miserable self loathing person who obviously hates himself
R35, I'm pretty sure that R29 is correct.
I'm in RCIA now and have been to mass at dozens of different Catholic churches (and watched Mass on EWTN).
Our priest in RCIA said you have to be a Catholic who has gone to confession to get the sacrament at a parish church.
There are some Catholic masses held at NON parish churches (at convents for example) where they DO give communion to anyone.
Having said that, my deepest condolences to the woman in the article and her family. Christ would welcome her with open arms were he alive today. (I'm one of those Catholics fighting to change the church from within.)
The father of a friend of mine killed himself because he couldn't turn straight in 1967. He went through electroshock therapy and all sorts of chemical experimentation but it didn't work.
After the funeral, the priest told the widow that her husband was "burning in Hell."
Religion's a crock. Why buy second-hand what you already own?
[quote]Just explaining the "rules" to all of you who are unaware of the fact that you can't just go into a Catholic church and take communion because you feel like it.
Complete bullshit. I, a non-Catholic, accompanied my best friend to mass many times as a pre-teen and teen because his parents only required that he attend mass weekly, not that he go with them. So I'd tag along with him because after mass we'd go off and do stuff that we really wanted to do. And each time I accompanied him I got up and took communion without objection from the priest - who not only knew who I was, but also knew I wasn't Catholic.
The rules are entirely flexible. I've seen it many times.
I wanted to add one more thing.
This weekend, the priest in our parish gave a homily where he talked about people loving their husband, wife OR life partner.
When I chatted with him after church, I thanked him for being inclusive and welcoming. He said to me that he feels very strongly that he wants LGBT Catholics in our parish to feel welcome.
He quoted St. Augustine, and to paraphrase him he said, "I just feel like you have to do everything out of love. And if you don't, you're doing it wrong."
[quote] Plus, how did he KNOW?
Shaved head? Piercings? Tattoos? Cane?
god is still imaginary, r44.
[quote]and don't anyone ever forget that his one show of anger, his one major temper tantrum, was towards the money lenders.
Exactly so R39. Jesus did not allow willful, unrepentant "sinners" in his house. The money lenders are a metaphor for all sinners. The priest in OP's story was doing the same (in his view, not mine). Jesus accepts all who accept him (repent, follow his commandments and fly right). Read your bible. It's all there.
[quote]I bet if instead of being born a lesbian she chose to be a child molester or a murderer during her life time the priest would have stayed.
True, he would have, as long as she repented of those sins. Same as if she repented of any other mortal sins including, in the Church's view, living a gay lifestyle.
R43, I think that priest was awesome in giving you communion. He certainly was demonstrating the love of Christ as his representative.
However, the RC Church's canon law is pretty clear about who can receive the Eucharist:
[quote] It happens quite frequently that Communion ministers believe themselves authorized to extend Eucharistic hospitality, either for the sake of kindness or a genuine sense of unity among the members of the Congregation. While such motives are admirable, the result nonetheless falsifies the sacramental meaning of the Eucharist as both a sign of communion with Christ and communion with the Catholic Church.
[quote] Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, part 2.
[quote]After the funeral, the priest told the widow that her husband was "burning in Hell." Religion's a crock.
First of all I don't believe this dumb story. Second, one priest is an asshole so "religion's a crock?" Okay. Priests are just like any other group of people. Some are jerks. Some are great. Most are average. Get over it.
[quote]Not saying it's right. Just explaining the "rules" to all of you
Just doing your job then, Herr Göth?
There are some seriously fucked-up comments here from these people defending this asshole priest and his petty little tyranny with his communion wafer! Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!
[quote]However, the RC Church's canon law is pretty clear about who can receive the Eucharist:
Yeah, and it's frequently not followed. It's just something for hateful priests to fall back on when they feel like it.
Hard to explain to a non-catholic, but they don't check you at the door for ID or anything. You're supposed to abstain if you haven't received the sacrament out of respect for what other's believe and hold sacred. Catholics believe that they are receiving the actual body and blood of Christ. It is not just bread and wine and it is not just symbolic.
Someone show me in the bible where jeebus said a person has to confess his or her sins to a priest before receiving communion. Show me where Jeebus differentiated between one type of sin and another. The catholic church is a corporation who has invented rules to protect itself. Show me where Jeebus differentiated between one type of sin and another. Jeebus said we should eat and drink in remembrance of him. He did not attach any strings to communion.
[quote]Second, one priest is an asshole so "religion's a crock?"
Nope, it's a crock because it's a crock. The fact that the priest in question was a fuckwad is unrelated.
R54, read link @ R53. All will be revealed.
To oversimplify things greatly, you could compare receiving the Eucharist to voting in the U.S.
You can't vote if you are not a citizen. Do people vote who aren't citizens? Yes. Do they all get caught? No. Is it right to vote if you aren't a citizen? No. Would it be nice if everyone who wasn't a citizen could vote? Sure. The election judge can only verify so much (registration, address) but none of them verify that voters are U.S. citizens.
Same thing with communion. Not a Catholic in a state of grace? The burden is on YOU not to take communion. It's not on the Priest to give it to you or not.
My heart breaks for the agony the woman in the article went through. I'm sorry for her pain. But the burden was on HER to not take communion. She should never have put herself in that position.
[quote]Hard to explain to a non-catholic, but they don't check you at the door for ID or anything.
Except when they do. Catholic practices are pretty random about what is and isn't allowed and when it might be. Right now, the Church is focused on sex to the point of absurdity.
Supposedly, we're against the death penalty too, but good luck looking for examples of the Church fighting that to equal the fervor they apply to homosexuality and abortion and birth control.
The Church's "moral stances" are embarrassingly random and obviously the product of a bunch of impotent geezers battling dementia.
Thank you R57. I was getting tired of doing all the heavy lifting around here.
I'll concede that point to you for sure, R58. But we were discussing church law, not it's imperfect, sloppy and inconsistent execution.
I understand the catholic stance completely, R56. My point is that the catholic rules are not bible-based. Doesn't matter if it's the blood and body of christ or a fig newton. The bible does not say that some people can take it and some can not. This is a catholic construct. This harks back to when the church charged you for absolution. If you don't pay me to make you clean, then you can't take communion. If you don't take communion, then you will BURN IN HELL. 99.9% of what the catholic church pushes is bull shite.
BTW, I might be Irish, but I am not catholic. I am atheist - born and raised.
[quote]This harks back to when the church charged you for absolution.
Which was also, no doubt, defended by Catholics at the time when anyone questioned it.
Then, just as now, it was wrong but the Catholic Church survives by enticing the weak minded to insist "there are church laws" that justify morally repugnant behavior. As if.
Catholic "law" changes with Popes and profits. There's nothing consistent about it.
[quote]I'm one of those Catholics fighting to change the church from within.
How, exactly r41? You do realize you have absolutely no power, right? ie your church's power is 100% top down? You can't pick your priests, you can't fire them, you can't effect any real change or oversee your church's books or where the money goes to ... so explain again how you're 'fighting'? What are you doing?
If you want to stay in such a backward, gay hating, ignorant institution, that's certainly your right, but please don't come to a gay board telling us how you're "fighting". You're just deluded.
Ciaran I agree with you completely on this:
[quote]My point is that the catholic rules are not bible-based. The bible does not say that some people can take it and some can not. This is a catholic construct.
True. However, the article is not about the biblical accuracy of the RC's rules of giving the Eucharist.
If you go to a gym and their rules are that you need a key card and a paid membership, you don't expect to be allowed in if you don't have those things. Same with the RC church.
If she was a Catholic, she knew the rules. She tried to get around them. And people are shocked, SHOCKED, that the church didn't bend the rules for her.
My argument is that they shouldn't be surprised.
Is it sad? Yes. Would it be great if she could've gotten it? Yup. But expecting a priest -- who has been sworn to uphold the canon law of the church -- to break those rules?
Not going to happen.
One of my ex-lovers was a priest, and he was so hot at age 32 that nobody here wouldn't have done him.
His family owned a brewery in Wisconsin, and he referred to their product as "the nectar of the gods." The beer sucked, though.
He and his fellow priest friends had this idea the Catholic Church was a democracy.
oh please r64. Priests break the rules all the time and you know it and I know it. Positioning this whole sad story as somehow reflecting priestly integrity is just pure casuistry (which the church and its minions are experts at).
This idiot priest wanted to make a public statement. Did he ask if anyone was divorced? Or otherwise unfit to eat the jeezit? How does he presume to know? Why refuse this *one* person?
People are shocked at the pettiness and mean-spiritedness of it. And most likely hypocrisy.
LOL at jeezit, R66. You owe me a new keyboard.
The Catholic Church has caused more death and misery than any other institution in the history of the world. Period. Rick Santorum is its perfect advocate. Angry and joyless.
[quote]People are shocked at the pettiness and mean-spiritedness of it. And most likely hypocrisy.
People are shocked at the hypocrisy of many, many institutions (selective ticketing by law enforcement; anti-gay GOP members who are on the DL; etc., etc.)
That says much more about the naivete and sense of entitlement of people than the rules of the institutions.
Before his execution, Jesus laid his hands on Peter (the first Pope) and made him the head of his church here on earth. He gave him the "keys to the kingdom" and told him that what he binds on earth shall be bound in heaven (Peter was given the power to forgive sins). Peter laid his hands on his successor and so on down through the ages to the present day. Catholics believe the Pope's power is absolute through succession directly from Jesus and by his handing all the "rule making" authority ("the keys") to Peter.
So, yes there are many church laws that you won't find a literal reference to in the bible. No need because Jesus told Peter he had the authority to make all the rules of his church, as did/do his successors.
Why do non Catholics feel they have a right to tell Catholics what their religious beliefs should be and what their church must do? Would you walk unit a synog with a ham sandwich? Would you go to a strict mosque and tell the leaders that they must allow women in, without burqas?
There are over a billion Catholics in the world; they are not all nuts, so you better learn to live with them. The number in America will grow leaps and bounds with the growth of the Hispanic population. Are you going to write them all off; they will be the majority one day, soon.
Anyone who is gay and defends The Church is still full of self loathing and is absolutely desperate to feel accepted. When you were young, God (represented by the church) was like a parent to you. You just wanted to feel love from this faceless entity. Now as an adult you realizes how much your god/ parent despises you. Worst yet, not because of anything you did but simply because you were born a certain way. Now in your desperation you'll defend the church and try to play by every one of their rules, hoping that some how you'll earn that love and acceptance that you feel has been taken away from you. There is another behavior pattern similar to this: codependent abuse.
I don't believe in God but I do have faith that we as human beings are hard wired to love, respect, and support one another and to want to connect with one another. And I believe that Carl Jung was on to something with his idea of the collective unconscious. I don't know if he intended that concept to have spiritual implications but that's how I view it. When we are sensitive enough to actually tap in to the collective unconscious and almost literally feel its presence, it's an amazing thing. I've only experienced it a few times (interestingly, usually during yoga).
Now if you want to apply religious labels to this idea and consider this connection we all share to one another as "god", more power to you. I guess you could call it that in so far as that is our real natural state and we should try and move closer and closer to really feeling that bond with one another.
There are some religious folks who believe that Hell isn't really a lake of fire with a guy in a red suit poking at you for all eternity. Instead they feel that Hell is the eternal separation from God's presence or Grace. Could it be that with this idea that our natural state of Grace being a shared connection with one another, that Hell would actually be being separated, truly isolated from our siblings in Humanity, not able to tap in to that collective unconsciousness?
Then, I put to you that the Catholic Church and all its cohorts who try to make gays feel sub human, unworthy of being considered equal to everyone else, are actually doing the work of the Devil. They're trying to say, "you are not a part of the human race". They are trying to prevent us from feeling like we are part of that great ocean of humanity even though that is actually our natural state That's why I believe what they're doing is so wrong.
Nevermind their moronic voodoo rituals or hierarchy. They're evil because they're trying to separate us from the rest of humanity.
R63, you ask very valid questions. However, I can't help but think they echo the same things people said when LGBTs first started fighting to join the military or get their marriages recognized.
At the risk of drawing a "get a blog" ...
[quote] You can't pick your priests
Actually, I can and do. I attend one of the most liberal parishes in one of the largest dioceses in the country. I chose that church because the priests are welcoming to LGBTs. They recognize gay relationships from the pulpit and value LGBT members. I don't support -- either with my money or time -- a parish that doesn't do that.
[quote] you can't effect any real change or oversee your church's books or where the money goes to ...
I can't affect where church money goes any more than I can effect where my federal taxes go. HOWEVER, I don't give money to the parish that is sent to the Vatican. I give to the church's food pantry, a scholarship for poor students, money for the homeless, and money to support the mass that is especially for LGBTs on Sunday nights. None of my money get's sent to Rome.
Like many people here, I hope to be in the church when LGBTs reach a critical mass that triggers the tipping point of change (like with DADT and same sex marriage).
If you want to stay in such a backward, gay hating, ignorant institution, that's certainly your right, but please don't come to a gay board telling us how you're "fighting".
I'm taking some small steps that make a difference to me:
1- By being an out gay person, I am an example that a person can be gay and Catholic.
2- I openly support the LGBT mass (sanctioned by my archdiocese, btw) on Sunday nights with my attendance and dollars and tell others about it.
3- I talk to my priests about LGBT issues and support them when they preach about it.
4- I have friends who are LGBT priests and nuns and I publicly support them through Facebook, comments on the internet and at church events.
5-I buy books by LGBT Catholic allies.
6-I deprive the Vatican of my dollars by giving only locally to targeted programs of my parish.
7- I denounce anti LGBT actions by the RC when it happens via letters, comments on FB and meetings with church officials where appropriate.
[quote]You're just deluded.
Maybe, lol. I'm a Catholic because I share the church's values of social justice, helping the poor, education for all, and because I love the community of my church and the way it helps my spirituality deepen. I know they will be there when I need them and I will be there when they need me.
The Pope, the Cardinals, and the Vatican may be anti-gay, but my local priests and parish are not. They are great people who help feed my spiritual needs and welcome LGBTs. If that's delusional, so be it. I'm not here to convince anyone to become RC or to agree.
tl;dr: It's just like Log Cabin Republicans.
An LGBT mass?? I've never heard of anything so stupid. Do they give the Eucharist? Why doesn't the self loathing hate monger priest call it what it is: singles night. Lemme guess, there's a special under 16 night too? "Boys get in free with their parents waiver of right to sue!"
The mass for LGBTs in Chicago is called AGLO
We, the members of the Archdiocesan Gay and Lesbian Outreach, as people of God, create a sense of community for those who wish to reconcile their sexual orientation with their faith; provide an accepting and affirming atmosphere in which to worship in the Catholic tradition; provide opportunities for integration of personal experience through spiritual growth; share our distinctive gifts with each other and the Church at large, and witness our Catholic faith to the gay and lesbian community.
I'm not Catholic, but over the past couple weeks I've listened with interest to a lot of radio call-in shows that discussed the insurance/contraception controversy, plus Santorum's remarks about religion, etc. What I've found striking is the number of people who call in and identify themselves as Catholic or even "devout" Catholics, but then pick apart the things they DON'T believe in about the church (i.e. they don't agree with the church about birth control, homosexuality, even abortion; they don't believe that "some man over in Rome can tell me what to do" or they believe "in a personal relationship with God, rather than what the church tells me." On and on.) What I find strange is that many of these "Catholics" are espousing Protestant beliefs. I'm suprised more of them haven't left the Catholic church for a Protestant denomination that fits their own particular beliefs. Because listening to many of these callers, I'm convinced that many American Catholics are actually Protestants at heart...they just don't realize it.
I wonder what this Ka-ween of a priest would have to say
[quote]and witness our Catholic faith to the gay and lesbian community.
Cram it, churchy.
They actually believe they are eating and drinking Jesus?
That is really FUCKING TWISTED!!!!
You are correct in theory, R77. The majority of US Catholics are what's called "cafeteria" Catholics. They choose the things they want to believe/practice and ignore the things they don't agree with. They were raised with an amazing faith that has a rich history and tradition. They don't want to throw it ALL away because they reject 5% of the church's teachings. Many do leave the church and join a Protestant faith. Most (like me) end up coming back "home" because everything else just feels phony, like a cheap imitation of the real thing.
The Catholic church isn't going anywhere. It will be around forever. Jesus said so himself in Matthew 16:18
[quote]And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
A divorced person is not allowed to receive Communion. When a parishoner publicly questioned why New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, who's divorced and lives with Sandra Lee without the benefit of marriage receives Communion, the local Bishop gave a long response which added up to "it's none of your business."
[quote]end up coming back "home" because everything else just feels phony, like a cheap imitation of the real thing.
So a never-ending pedo priest scandal and Miss Red Prada Pumps popess in Rome does NOT seem cheap and tawdry to you?????
[quote] I openly support the LGBT mass (sanctioned by my archdiocese, btw) on Sunday nights with my attendance and dollars and tell others about it.
[quote]6-I deprive the Vatican of my dollars by giving only locally to targeted programs of my parish.
A mass for gays is not sanctioned by your archdiocese. Either the top queens don't know about it, or they look the other way. Most likely the latter. But under no circumstances is it 'sanctioned', I guarantee.
You do not have the power to 'deprive the vatican' of your dollars. And you say you support the LGBT mass with your dollars. You don't see the contradiction here? How do you know the $$ you contribute doesn't go to the vatican?
[quote]Why do non Catholics feel they have a right to tell Catholics what their religious beliefs should be and what their church must do?
I was raised catholic, went to catholic schools, etc. Nobody is telling catholics what their beliefs should be or what their church must do. Some of us are rightly pointing out the rank hypocrisy and complete fallacy behind many of the key points used to fleece the masses.
From Reuters in 2008:
[quote]Pope Benedict said on Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.
I can certainly see why you gay Catholics are so drawn to this cult. The popess has been hatin' on you for years but you still show up every Sunday AND pretend that YOUR parish church is different from the one in Rome. And you delude yourself into thinking you can keep your donations to your church away from miss thing in rome.
The bible also says that unicorns exist and that we should burn witches, r81.
another HUGE MARY?
the pope himself.
gay as f-in christmas; self-loathing ass.
All I wanted was one of those delicious, crispy crackers.
R39, you made me tear up. You expressed the issue perfectly. I love Jesus with all my heart, and hate Paul for corporatizing what had been a beautiful communion between Christ and his people.
And paraphrasing Jeremiah Wright, God DAMN the men who deliberately left out of the Bible those books (Thomas, for example) that deal with the mystical soul+to-soul personal connection of Christ to his believers.
I left my lifelong church when they selected a whoremongering, serial cheating man as pastor. A man who rails against homosexuals, unbelievers, non-Christians, and everything EXCEPT adultery. A man who tells us Jesus changed the water to something like grape KooL-Aid, not wine. Because wine is baaad. That was 30 years ago, and I never regretted it.
God created the earth, its natural resources, animals, and man. In that order. Thus he created a family wedded to the earth and to one another. We are to be good stewards of his creation.
The earth is my church, and every creature in it is my family. And, yes, Jesus loves me. This I know. Fuck all that other noise.
Well OP, many here on DL defend the muslims so why not?
The Archdiocese of Washington has released the following statement:
“In matters of faith and morals, the Church has the responsibility of teaching and of bringing the light of the Gospel message to the circumstances of our day. When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion, it is not the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to publicly reprimand the person. Any …issues regarding the suitability of an individual to receive communion should be addressed by the priest with that person in a private, pastoral setting.
The archdiocese is looking into the incident at a funeral Mass that was celebrated by Fr. Marcel Guarnizo and will handle this as a personnel issue.”
Archdiocese of Washington
R93, it's a nice feel good fairy tale you're telling yourself that Jesus was only all about love, compassion and understanding. Not so. He's very clear in his requirement that you follow his/God's commandments.
Jesus said in John 15:10
"If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".
Thou shalt not....."
Sounds a lot like judgement to me.
What about the unicorns and witches?
I think it's hilarious that Catholicism gets under people's skin so much. We're not protestants, we're not nuts; you make judgments about us but you really don't get us, and you won't, so you attack us. One billion strong... Ha, ha, ha!
The AGLO mass in Chicago is sanctioned by the Chicago archdiocese because they control it. There used be a Gay Catholic group in Chicago called "Dignity" that held a weekly mass in a Catholic church. Eventually they were kicked out of that church because they didn't accept the Catholic policy on homosexuality. For a long time, the powers-that-be looked the other way, but they finally laid down the law. Dignity moved to a Protestant church in Boyztown where they have their services. Then AGLO was created, under the control of the Archdiocese. The priests are gay, the congregation is gay, but it seems to me there is something wrong when you're patronizing an organization that considers you sinful if you are not celebate. And it is also the cruisiest place in town on a Sunday evening.
Chicago recovering Catholic
I'm Catholic, but that is disgusting of that priest. Probably in the closet???? I hope the family didn't give him or the church any monetary contribution. They ought to make a huge fuss, throw a huge fit, etc., etc. Absolutely outrageous.
No, we really do "get you" because many of us used to be just like you, until we did our research and got sensible. It's just too much to be an out gay person and continue to follow an organization that has declared war on us, while being puppeteered by closeted cases and pedos.
It's not attacking you to try and make you see the glaring hypocrisy. It's totally your choice if you want to stick your head deeper in the sand, clinging to the idea of the 'one true church'. Which it is clearly not. It's the meme they use to justify their own crimes.
One question: why does the vatican run a bank?
"why does the vatican run a bank?"
Hon, when you have billions of dollars flowing in from all over the world, you don't stuff it in a mattress.
And yes, I hate the Catholic Church with the power of a thousand suns.
Same reason the US goverment runs a bank.
Because that's where the money is?
Jesus was clear that R97 is an immoral idiot.
The word "eunuchos" in koine Greek had a more general meaning of childless men.
For there are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother's womb; and there are some unuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves euncuhs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
r93, Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword."
Didja know that? Or, if you were raised catholic (like I was), you probably never learned that, because instead of reading/studying the bible you were taught to obey. And you were probably taught that jesus was like this rilly nice cool guy, and the church mostly helps the poor.
Am I right?
People act like the Catholic church is the only anti-gay church in the US!
If you look at who is actually passing laws that *personally* deprive LGBTs of rights it's representatives from Protestant congregations.
Benny and his ilk in Rome talk, talk, talk about gays but do little. They are much more involved and aggressive about depriving women.
sad, r109. that's ALL you got?
[quote]People act like the Catholic church is the only anti-gay church in the US!
where'd that come from? People here point out hypocrisy, especially with regards to gay people. Remember Ted Haggard? If the catholic church wasn't winning the hypocrisy contest they wouldn't be getting so much attention here.
''Amazing they continue their douchey and unChristian behavior even at a time when they need better press.'''
Yeah - that is totally it. Crazy. So isolated in their hubris, I guess.
The Catholic Church has thousands and thousands of members and it is bound to happen that a FEW homosexual deviants infiltrate it to advance their agenda of perversion. I pray to JESUS that someday they open their hearts to Him and find peace and a normal and Natural beheaviour patern for their lifes.
Well maybe it wasn't because she was a lesbian but rather a very angry, hostile bull-duke. Can you blame the poor guy???
Weird how the most interesting, intelligent and level-headed posts here are from Catholics. The rest is just immature name-calling with your Marys, popesses, pradas, that wouldn't be out of place in a children's playground.
My question is why did the woman present herself for communion when she's not even Cstholic or living a Catholic lifestyle?
I've trolldarred R109 and I plan to FF every fucking post she makes.
it's all in the finger action.
[quote]Why do non Catholics feel they have a right to tell Catholics what their religious beliefs should be and what their church must do? Would you walk unit a synog with a ham sandwich? Would you go to a strict mosque and tell the leaders that they must allow women in, without burqas?
This continues to baffle me. Obsession with what is essentially a minority religion in America (usually latching onto actions by a minority of it's clergy) when Protestants are much more overt and explicit in their hatred of homosexuals.
[quote]I've trolldarred [R109] and I plan to FF every fucking post she makes.
it's all in the finger action.
r115/117 would seem more trolldar-worthy...
ooooh, hall monitor R116 is taking names. Everybody watch out. She's going to tell the teacher.
Bishop of Brooklyn, Francis Mugavero who died in 1991, allowed Dignity to meet until he was told by Archbishop John Cardinal O'Connor to kick them out. It was known in church circles that Mugavero was gay. A priest on his staff was his partner.
What's your point r121? That many priests are gay? That Dignity gets booted out of catholic churches? That Mugavero is a hypocrite?
R117, Catholics govern the country. In the US the ultimate government is the Supreme Court, whose members serve for life and it decides all Constitutional questions, including, in 2000, who the president should be. Of 9 individuals thus governing our land, 6 are Roman Catholic. It is certain justifiable to attack this monstrous situation.
R124- Your statement is not only ridiculous, but it is blatantly discriminatory. If we follow your logic, a gay judge will always vote for gays, regardless of the legality of the issues; black judges will only support black litigants and disregard the law, etc. Politicians will only support their race, religion and screw the constituents. Isn't that what Kennedy's critics said about him?
You're really enlightened.
Unfortunately our politicians in 2012 are much more like Santorum than Kennedy.
r124: Scalia, Kennedy and Thomas were the only Catholics on the SCOTUS bench in 2000. And Kennedy is only nominally Catholic. He was in the plurality of Planned Parenthood v. Casey.
r122, O'Connor was fearful the bishop would outed.
I know plenty of pro-choice, pro-gay Catholics. They're totally limited to the pews and not the party-line regurgitators found in this thread, though.
Elena Kagan won't recuse herself when the Healthcare case comes before the court. How can Elena be impartial when she helped create the plan and represented Obama?
That doesn't change the fact that Catholics govern the country now R127.
I'm a big obama supporter but I do hope the healthcare reform bill is struck down. I think that might have been his plan all along.
The court cannot possibly find it constitutional that the government can FORCE people to buy something. Especially something as extortionate as private health insurance. Health care is a public concern, and it needs to be publicly financed.
Single payer financing through taxes is the only solution. Getting all young/healthy in the same risk pool as Medicare recipients is the only way to rein in costs.
So how do you feel about car insurance, r132?
jews love to bash christians and catholics. but bash a jew, and they go ape shit.
r133, the license to drive a car is a privilege granted by the state. To me, requiring a commercial insurance policy makes sense in this context. The mandate is based on another condition. You can opt out by choosing not to buy/operate a vehicle.
Mandated health insurance is predicated on the fact of being alive. There is no opt-out. There's no 'consideration' (in the legal sense): You *have* to buy it. It's a gift for insurance companies. I can't see how the supreme court would uphold this.
The Catholic deflector is the funniest one yet.
"It's all about the Protestants!!"
Dude, look in the mirror.
So, how many of you gay Catholics plan to vote for Santorum?
r134, get help for your jew-hating. The comments here about catholicism are mostly pointing out the hypocrisy. You can't stand it, so you play that age-old card: Blame the Jews.
Is your name Mel by any chance?
Our hometown priest was a goodlooking guy with the creepiest name -- Father Hands. And when it was made public knowledge, the Catholic church put him under "church arrest" (what the hell is that anyway) until he downloaded kiddie porn on the church computer. Here's my concept -- these guys go into the priesthood for a very good reason. If they're gay, or child molesters, they want to lead a celibate life. But it doesn't always work out for them.
All Catholic defenders, especially gay ones, sicken me to the core of my being.
If they're gay OR CHILD MOLESTERS?
I don't think you meant to imply those 2 things are the same, but it kind of sounds that way....
I hate to be obtuse, but you can't be a practicing Roman Catholic and a practicing Lesbian at the same time. Makes about as much sense as a Jew trying to join the Nazi party. Join a different church, BEFORE this kind of thing happens. Jeez
I think I get what R141 is trying to say, he just communicated it poorly. I agree with him that 'some' people who are self loathing about their sexual orientation, no matter what it may be (towards the same sex or kids), tend to be drawn to the priesthood thinking/hoping a vow of celibacy will keep them from acting on their desires.
Ah, except if you re-read it that poster says this:
"...these guys go into the priesthood for a very good reason. If they're gay, or child molesters, they want to lead a celibate life."
Which implies that if you are gay, it would be "very good" to try to be celibate.
I was sorry I couldn't attend my niece's wedding...until I found out the name of the priest who was going to officiate, a sick vicious lazy thieving scumbag.
[quote] It will be around forever. Jesus said so himself....
OHHHHHHH! In THAT case! Why didn't you tell us?
[quote]Then AGLO was created, under the control of the Archdiocese. The priests are gay, the congregation is gay...
Jesus Christ! Can you imagine a bigger collection of dented cans, and damaged goods if you tried!?
Yes I can, R149. It's called a DignityUSA meeting.
Dignity are less damaged. AGLO people accept celibacy as a lifelong requirement.
There's NO WAY they are able to remain celibate.
So why do they allow AGLO and not Dignity?
Do the AGLO people have to agree to the basic catholic teaching that gays are 'disordered' and 'intrinsically evil' (to use Prada Pope Mary's terms)?
I am yet a Catholic defender and an old pretender.
You weren't when I had you James Francis Edward Stuart