Did Whitney commit suicide? Gene Simmons just said she did on CNBC.

WTF? he's shilling his shit and sais she committed suicide.

• I believe she did as well. Food, pills, and champagne in the bathtub, with her calling her cousin that morning, and her mom a half-hour before she dies? Sounds like a going-away party to me.

• Gene Simmons on CNBC. Amazing. I know they have hours to kill, but honestly, if that's the best "America's Business Channel" can do, they should just break away and show cartoons to fill the time. When did Joe Kerrnan become such a fawning suck-up to anyone parroting the RNC daily talking points?

• Me too r1. And the way Robyn worded her eulogy in Esquire makes me think she thought the same.

• I can't fucking stand old ass Gene Simmons. He's so fucking annoying and full of himself. Typical Republican thinking he knows everything. Cher and Diana Ross must have been desperate when they dated him.

  Ugh!

• I dunno. I think she passed out/had a heart attack in the bath. I had a cousin (alcoholic, drug addicted) die under similar circumstances and the coroner assured my aunt that it wasn't suicide, that he'd never seen a suicide case where a woman was found nude. No matter how fucked up in the head they are, there is a subconscious awareness that they don't want to be found naked.

• Maybe he meant Cummings. maybe she watched her own show.

• Nancy Grace claimed on CNN that Whitney was murdered.

• I don't think so based on clues. The conversations with mother and Dionne sounded quick/perfunctory about "are we sitting at same table? See you in a few" - that type of thing. Not a Goodbye Conversation. And by all accounts Whitney was doing fitness swimming in the pool, socializing with friends, not pre-suicide behavior. And she loved her daughter very deeply, would not have left her. I think we don't know enough, it could have been a combo of some drugs in her system plus a Flo-Jo type of sudden heart malfunction.

• Alcohol and valium is a great way to have an accidental death- all too common. She passed out and that was that, respiratory failure is what happens. I have no idea if that was the case, but sure seems plausible.

  charlie

• r5 has a good point. If she was found in the bathtub nude, it was not a suicide. Gene Simmons is stirring shit up.

• No. Nippy did not kill herself with a turkey sandwich and jalapenos in the toilet as a sign of her send-off. Nu-uh.

• I'm with R5, though I did know a woman who shot herself in the head in the shower, nude. Still, as despondent as WH might have been over any number of things, I don't think she would have taken a turkey sandwich to her deathtub and let herself be found all wrinkled from soaking in cold water.

• If she was going to commit suicide, why would she have chosen to do it right before Clive Davis's party (unless she was mad at him and wanted to get back at him for something)? I would think if she wanted to commit suicide, she would have done it AFTER Clive's party and the Grammys. That would have given her a chance to say goodbye to Clive and goodbye to her friends in the industry.

• Although it does seem interesting that Robyn claimed in Esquire the Clive Davis party was her favorite event. She was a star and it almost seems like she (subconsciously?) orchestrated a dramatic departure for maximum publicity. The whole world was sure talking about her death. If she drowned in a bathtub in Atlanta one month from now there wouldn't be quite so much fanfare. Davis was also arguably the biggest influence in her life - was her death before his party possibly a final, subconscious FU to him?

• This sounds to me very much like how Heath Ledger died. This was a simple bad combination of a night of drinking - perhaps some pot- then some kind of pills— probably downers, Xanax, something to calm her nerved the night before a big apparence.. All of this on a weak heart and body that has been depleted ver the years by drug abuse. It really doesn't have to be any more than a bad cocktail and she didn't think anything of it. Boring but still sad.

• Im not sure if she committed suicide, but I do know that Whitney interrupted an interview with E!News with Monica and Brandy on the day she died and handed Brandy a note that said, --"tell RAY J crack is whack and to stop cheating on me with Floyd Mayweather".

• She wasn't murdered and she didn't die of natural causes, OP. So how did she die? What killed her, and who was responsible? THINK, doll. Think HARD.

• It could be either. If she was angry with the biz, she would have chosen that night because it messed up the party.

• Following r13, More importantly she was looking forward to something. I think there's truth in the pattern of celebs- with a history of addiction- who died before big shows. Maybe they're out being seen and partying the night before, or doing a big rehearsal, then they come home and they're amped up, nervous, wired... so they take an extra amount of something to calm down. The fact that she was in a bath tup fits this pattern. She was trying to relax and self-medicating.

• She did NOT commit suicide, don't say that!

• Gene Simmons is an idiot, just look at his horrible face-lift.

• There's also the element of the hot water, which can alter your blood pressure. Speculation, of course, but I'm wondering if a bad cocktail mixed with a hot bath might have affected her blood pressure more than the drugs and alcohol alone. Or accelerated how fast the Valium or Xanax took effect.

• is this Kiss Gene Simmons?

• [quote][R5] Gene Simmons is stirring shit up. He's an idiot.

• [quote]Nancy Grace claimed on CNN that Whitney was murdered. Nancy Grace doesn't know her fat asshole from a hole in the ground. Same with Gene Simmons and claiming it was suicide - what a bunch of horseshit. Everyone around her said she had been in a great mood recently. Anyone with any common sense knows it was simply a bad combination of too many pills and too much alcohol.

• People who have much experience with death and Hospice know that there can be an incredible "manic" or highly animated phase that often occurs just before one passes. The old and indigent, some who haven't spoken or moved for months, can become incredibly lucid. The color returns to their face, they are alive with a vibrancy that can be truly stunning. People can also have an instinct that their own end is near. Whitney doing handstands by the pool, scrapping it up in the clubs, sweating profusely - this is public behavior that we haven't seen from her in a long time. Her bloated belly was truly frightening to look at and was obviously the sign of a major health problem. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but her exit does seem to have been choreographed almost perfectly.

• No, this is the late Jean Simmons, star of GUYS AND DOLLS and HAMLET. She was speaking from beyond the grave.

• So in movies/tv, when they slash their wrists and lie in the bathtub to commit suicide- that doesn't really happen?

• I've just read this thread getting my wires crossed. For some reason when I read Gene Simmons I was thinking of Richard Simmons. Certainly caused me to raise an eyebrow when someone mentioned him dating Cher and Diana Ross.

• r25, wtf are you getting at? She knew she was going to die so she took some pills and a hot bath?

• Was it Sue Simmons?

• She probably passed out numerous times before with alcohol/drug mix. Easier to wake up from that state when you don't do it in a tub of water. I don't think it was suicide for the same reasons as others have mentioned…..love for her daughter (who could have potentially been the one to find her, since she was traveling with her), and being found nude. New question: How come it takes so long to get toxicology tests back?

• R30, she means that Whitney's performing in Bolivia for Ken Lay.

• My sister who is a nurse practitioner explained this to me when Heath Ledger died. As best as I remember - She say people who abuse these types of drugs build up a tolerance, and need more and more to calm them. At some [point the drugs all start working together, and you die from respiratory failure. It could be that.

• R30 WTF are YOU getting at? No, I didn't say she knew she was going to die. I just said that she most likely died from mixing too many pills with alcohol but didn't realize the amounts she took would be fatal.

  R25

• [quote]No matter how fucked up in the head they are, there is a subconscious awareness that they don't want to be found naked. Um, hello?

  Marilyn

• She most likely had damage to her liver after years of drug and alcohol abuse, which makes it harder for the liver to process things. A normal dosage can become deadly for someone with a damaged liver.

• I think R30 meant to snipe at R26 (not at R25)

• Nancy Grace will have a BOMBSHELL story re AMERICA'S SONGBIRD TONIGHT on her show on Headline News Network. Just announced on CNN

• The other explanation is something more along the lines of Brittany Murphy, where the years of drug abuse just wound up taking its toll on her system. The timing was kind of intriguing, though. It's also possible she might have tried to make it look like an accident, so we'll never know.

  R1

• R27, please marry me! I adore you.

• My position is that she didn't commit suicide - I agree that she wouldn't make that literal gesture because of her daughter. But I do think she may have intuitively known death was near. She didn't plan the bathtub incident, but the whole LA visit might have been a good "ballpark" frame for her end of days.

  r26

• Wasn't she supposed to sing that night? I wondered if she over-medicated knowing she was going to sing, and realizing her voice wasn't up to it. Maybe she thought if she was medicated enough she wouldn't care if nothing came out of her mouth. She's been booed at venues recently because her voice was shot.

• If only Karen Carpenter had drunk the champagne and Mama Cass had taken the valium they would ALL be alive.

• Very good point, r43. It's sad that Whitney has been booed many times, knowing that she was the greatest singer of all time. The lady had a lot of guts.

• R21, speaking of face lifts, Gene Simmons' wife's face lift is horrendous and tragic. Shannon Tweed, his wife, had a perfectly attractive, even beautiful face, and she absolutely ruined her face last year or so by having a face lift. Her face now looks terrible. I feel sad looking at it. Cannot understand why in the world she did it. She insisted on having a simultaneous face lift at the same time a year or so ago when Gene Simmons had his face lift. His face lift actually turned out better than hers did. Her face now looks like a misshapen horribly damaged unnatural face - and like a mask.

• R43, good insight. Why in the world did she agree to sing at the party when her voice is shot and it would be a very public embarassment? She was booed at her recent concerts and apparently people were leaving in the middle of her concert(s) because her voice was so terrible. I saw a short film clip of one of her recent concerts and her voice was completely shot. Why would Clive Davis have agreed to have Whitney sing at this party? That was just asking for huge trouble.

• What I notice is Gene Simmons, Nancy Grace and Flo Anthony (people no one wants to hear from, anyway) grabbing the spotlight away from someone else's sadness. Kind of like Mariah Carey suddenly releasing pictures of her twins. I'm amazed Star Jones hasn't offered an opinion -- but the day's not over yet.

• She didn't commit suicide. I agree with other posters - at the end of the day, due to close to 20 years of crack, pills, pot and booze, her body just gave out. Then after throwing Xanax, Valium, Ativan and a couple of drinks on top of it with congestive heart failure, game over. What I think will be interesting to see is if cocaine shows up on the tox report. She was supposedly off it. Allegedly, and I say allegedly, she was on a major coke bender in LA the week before she died. We'll just have to wait and see.

• R5, why would you think she had a heart attack rather than she passed out due to the drugs (pills) and alcohol? Why are you so sure a heart attack killed her rather than the pills and/or alcohol making her pass out and then maybe drowning?

• R46 I thought Shannon's face looked weird even back when was guest star on Frasier. That's the last time I saw her and even then she looked pulled and her lips pumped up. Older women need to leave the lips alone. They don't make them look youthful just fucked up.

• when you are tired, it is easy to fall asleep in the tub and you don't need drugs or booze

• Nancy Grace actually said she thinks it was murder??? Are you speculating that is what Nancy thinks, or did Nancy actually say this?

• R50, one of the leaks that were supposedly came from a family member after they talked to the coroner said there wasn't enough water in her lungs for her to have drowned. That may be contradicted when the actual coroner's report comes out. In the meantime, people are assuming it is probably factual.

• True, R54. I was watching The View (don't hate me, please)yesterday and Barbara Walters swore she drowned in the bathtub. It was amusing to see Whoopie try to correct her but stop. Babs yields some kinda power around there for Whoopie to back off.

• R54, then why would you (or others) automatically think it was a heart attack rather than respiratory failure? Wouldn't death more likely have been due to respiratory failure where the respiratory (breathing) system shut down due to a mixture of pills and alcohol, rather than a heart attack? Similar to Heath Ledger whose body went into respiratory failue - his breathing stopped.

• r56, I think there is an assumption of heart failure (though respiratory is also a good one) because of how bloated she was in her face, hands and belly. Usually a sign of congestive heart failure, but until the coroner releases the COD, we just don't know.

• [quote]Barbara Walters swore she drowned in the bathtub. It was amusing to see Whoopie try to correct her but stop. Babs yields some kinda power around there for Whoopie to back off. Someone should have asked the old bitch if she's ever completed a coroner training program since she seems to be so certain. If not, someone should have told her to shut the hell up.

  Can't stand that show

• R56, I don't assume it was a heart attack. I've known a few people who OD'd on drug/alcohol combinations and most of them died from respiratory failure. If she ruined her voice by smoking cigarettes and crack, her lungs were probably not in great shape. That would be my guess as to cause of death.

  R54

• It could have been a really bad yeast infection.

• Agree, r58. The show is a POS and grows more so when Babs is around.

• R36, most people believe Marilyn was murdered, despite the official declaration of suicide. And anyway, Marilyn being found nude and beautiful between satin sheets in her bed is far different from Whitney being found bloated and wrinkled with her head under water and a turkey sandwich beside the tub.

• Is the turkey sandwich still good?

  Aretha

• It's the call to Mary-Kate Olsen that makes you wonder. Will Nancy Grace be covering this new development?

• I just saw a video of Whitney performing on youtube where her voice was totally burnt out. It was all hoarse, low growls, kind of like a rough version of Tom Waits. She was trying to sing "I Will Always Love you." There was another where she tried to talk-sing her way through it. Some vids were attached to stories about her being booed in Australia and London, with fans walking out during the performance and saying what a mess her voice was. In one clip, she was wearing a long coat over a skintight dress, through the opening you could see her big belly. That had to be a pretty stifling hot outfit to wear while singing. Maybe she didn't kill herself on purpose, but she was forcing herself through embarrassing, bad performances to get money. No wonder she had xanax. Some people are now saying it was congestive heart failure. People that have congestive heart failure are out of breath constantly, and cough all the time. They sound like they have bronchitis. I'm voting liver damage.

• Gene Simmons needs to be put down.

• But she did commit suicide. The slowhand version. The act started the first time she got "high."

• It's the power of the closet -- closed cases cannot stand it.

• "Her bloated belly was truly frightening to look at ..." Mare. REEEEEEE!

• Gene Simmons is the Donald Trump of rock music. Talentless, obnoxious braggart who'll say anything for publicity and sell anything with his name on it.

• remember when terry gross interviewed gene? she could barely hide her contempt.

• If Liza had said it I'd give it some credence. Gene Simmons' only known areas of expertise are sticking his tongue out and screwing underage groupies.

• That's funny r70 but I still love me some Gene Simmons more than Donald Trump. I feel like Gene Simmons is turning into Jackie Mason.

• Gene Simmons? His commenting on this is just completely puzzling.

• LET WHITNEY REST IN PEACE!! Fly AWAY WHitney! FLY AWAY!

• he's disgusting

• R19 nails it. Addicts take more when under pressure, and sometimes they take too much and die. Elis Regina was getting ready to record an important album when she OD'd on alcohol and cocaine. I think R26 is right too. Her appearance at the party, especially the distended stomach, tells me she was probably in congestive heart failure. She was dying but didn't know it, and that's the cause of the manic behavior. Simmons was already beneath contempt, but he reached a whole new level of scuzziness here.

• Suicide - Drug enduced

• Yes, R55, watched Barbara Walters pronounce to the world that Whitney Houston drowned and that it was FACT! End of story. She abruptly cut off Whoopi and kept repeating it. It was very uncomfortable to watch. She even got pissy at Hasselback for changing the subject and not letting her finish. Clearly, she wanted to be the first journalist to beat the competition to the punch and make that info public. To all, please watch the clip of youtube, it's priceless. Looking back over the clip, I think she was in contact with a family member of Houston's who must of relayed the info after the coroner spoke with them. Of course, no one just dies of a bathtub drowning without something precipitating it. I think the toxicology reports will explain more. Or perhaps, the great Barbara Walters knows.

• [quote]Some vids were attached to stories about her being booed in Australia THANK GOD we only had newspapers back then...

  J.%20Garland

• No one wants to believe it's Suicide - Mixed up with the wrong man very sad indeed.

• Barbara needs to retire to Shady Acres Rest Home. She sounds increasingly like she's getting crotchety and senile.

• If anyone wants a reason to give up drugs here it is...

• Did Gene say why he thought it was suicide?

• Cocaine and weed doesn't make you drown, but it could help assist an easier exit.

• Drowning is plausible. Its what happens when you pass out from drugs and alcohol and don't realize that you have slipped underwater.

• I wish the corner would release the results. Why does it take so long for TOX results to come back?

• Maybe but the liklehood of one or the other is what will have to be decided at the inquest. My gut still says suicide.

• Toxicology reports and investigations always take fat too long, and often don't produce definative answers.

• I thought I saw them rule out drowing

• I just love Mr. Simmons mattresses. I have a Beauty-Rest myself.

• One does not kill themselves in the bathtub. Never. Not ever. THREAD CLOSED

• [quote]Toxicology reports and investigations always take fat too long, and often don't produce definative answers. Or so they tell us...

• THREAD OPEN People commit suicide in many ways and even commit filicide. Sorry its a fact.

• R93 is right. Who is in charge of this investigation? The Beverly Hills Police Dept., and you saw what a "bang up" job they did on Ronnie Chassen.

• It's unlikely that the truth will ever be found. The press are scumbags and we are are left in the dark.

• r95...that's exactly what I thought.

• You have to admit that commiting suicide on the eve of the Grammys IS a way of making a statement.

• She committed suicide because that was the option she was given. She is worth more dead to the powers that be. She exhausted the quota of fame and fortune she was afforded. Her soul was marked as soon as she signed on the dotted line. Her voice had gone and the adulation was waning, now everyone is feigning melancholy as the procession of her "legacy" marches into obscurity. You can count on humanity to revere in death when the threat has passed yet scorn in life. The circumstance is a dramatic parody of life itself. It makes for a fantastic story. The hotel. The Grammy's. The (to be released) film. Michael Jackson's "This is it", speaks for itself. No doubt he was subject to the same terms. Yet this is even a distraction as there is much more going on. The Queen of England is next, mark my words. This will not be smitten with the same controversy we saw surrounding Princess Diana's passing. It will seem like a natural matter of course. ....Cue more public hysteria as they are distracted from the dildo of humoured corporate greed embedded in the rectum. Wake up people!! "They" are getting sloppy and technology is moving too fast.

• Not thought about the Grammys! Is this a valid point?

• Jesus 99 that's some heavy sh*t!

• lol HRH is strong as an Ox

• LOL at all the people who think Toxicology works so quickly. CSI is fiction. It doesn't move overnight. Do you know how many people die under mysterious circumstances in LA in any given night, let alone the weekend. But OH it's Miss Whitney! HOW DARE THEY TAKE THEIR TIME!!! THE PEOPLE DEMAND TO KNOW NOW!!!!! Before we get bored and find some other tragedy to distract us from our sad lives, that is...

• CSI has caused major problems in the UK. Thousands have qualified but only a few hundred jobs are out there. We see it... we beleive it, those images in the living room damage the less intelligent ones :-o

• Did Whitney commit suicide? No one knows, it is however plausable

• The LA Coroner's Office reportedly told the family she did not die from drowning. There wasn't enough water in her lungs to indicate that. Her heart was also not enlarged, which means she was not in congestive heart failure. The toxicology reports will very likely reveal that she had a certain blood level of various benzos (Valium, Xanax, etc.) which her overtaxed body simply could no longer process efficiently. If she was indeed binging away on the booze (and it seems like she certainly was), then that's all it took. People don't realize what years of drug abuse do to a body. At any time, what was a "normal" dose of something or the "tolerable" dose of something can become a fatal dose when the body no longer is able to handle it. Whitney died from years of drug abuse. It's just that simple and was only a matter of time.

• Fair comment 106

• I also agree tba cumulative effects of long-term effects of polydrug abuse, potentiated by acute intoxication, that killed her. The conspiracy theories are fun but rarely correct. Monroe died from mixing sedatives prescribed by two different doctors, each unaware of the other's prescriptions: chloral hydrate and pentobarbital (Nembutal). Ledger was self-medicating with several drugs from different doctors. In his case, he was mixing narcotic pain pills with sleeping pills, to treat intractable insomna. Diana's death--after all the wild theories--turned out to be a banal drunk driving accident. Granted, the paparazzi didn't help matters. But a sober chauffeur wouldn't have tried to outrun them in a tunnel at such a high rate of speed. I won't even address Michael Jackson's crazy doctor, treating insomnia with intravenous surgical anesthetic.

• She had a gravy boat with olive owl (which she used for skin softening) by the tub so if she was concerned with her looks....I doubt she was intending to kill herself.

• If she was planning on killing herself, why the hell would she have brought a turkey dinner into the bathroom with her? An offering to Beelzebub, perhaps?

• make that olive OIL not OWL!!

  r108

• The gravy boat was IN the tub.

• What we are "shown" and what "is" are often at odds. Maybe the scene was made to fit the death, then we were allowed a look.

• Why do I smile every time I picture her doing handstands by the pool?

• Bobaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

• I love when you fools all suddenly have imaginary medical degrees. Please leave the medical/toxicology to people who didn't learn about it from tv.

• ^^This

• Doubt she was doing coke. (who's that hungry while doing coke?). I think it was the typical cocktail of booze and pills. Nothing illegal.

• Of course she didn't commit suiciide. That asinine theory flies in the face of known facts regarding her demeanor in the days preceding the event. I especially guffaw at the silly queens who purport that she killed herself out of spite. Maybe she was poppin' her fingers while she did it too!! .. Get Real, Hussies!!

  Common%20sense

• Bobbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!

• I'm with Gene on this. She committed suicide. It was well planned and not a last minute decision or choice. People who contemplate suicide plan way ahead. She would have been contemplating and planning her suicide for a very long time (as most suicide victims do.) This was a well planned GRAND EXIT. As for the turkey sandwich in the room as well as the other objects.. part of the plan. I'm guessing she was well insured. The oil in the gravy boat.. that was to help with the appearance of her skin for when she was discovered. Nudity is not an issue for most actresses. She called her mother 30 minutes before.. that was her goodbye call. She knew what drugs she was taking and she knew the effects when mixed with alcohol. She mixed the death combo herself and knew exactly what she was doing. She knew the hot bath was the elixir trick as well. She had her previous staff trained on all that which is why she changed her staff for her GRAND EXIT. New staff wouldn't be aware and wouldn't 'see' it coming! RIP Whitney! xx

  SM

• And I disagree. I don't think she committed suicide. To think she planned her suicide and ordered a turkey sandwich to have as a prop in the room is ridiculous. Do you honestly think she was that detail oriented? She was no Annie Wilkes.

• I think Whitney was way too VAIN to ever think of committing suicide. Vain to the bitter end.

• So, like, was there shit floating in the tub with her dead body? Don't your bowels let go when you die?

• [quote]I feel like Gene Simmons is turning into Jackie Mason LOL

• Wisten to me---she dwowned. It was a dwowning. Not dwugs. I'm just sowwy I nevew got to ask what kind of twee she was.

  Baba%20Wawa---and%20Whoopi---STFU%21%20%20I%20can%20get%20Wosie%20weawwy%20cheap

• R102, It's HM not HRH.

• "To think she planned her suicide and ordered a turkey sandwich to have as a prop in the room is ridiculous. Do you honestly think she was that detail oriented? She was no Annie Wilkes." Answer: My guess is yes. It really didn't matter if it was a ham sandwich or turkey though. She ate the hamburger and fries. (Who brings food to eat in a bathroom after a bath? Not like it took a hike to get there and she needed to pack a lunch. Plus she wasn't hungry.. she already ate.) And yes, Whitney Houston was indeed 'detail oriented'.. although not a requirement when planning a suicide. Her concentration was more on timing and where.. the night before the Emmy Awards and just before the pre-party at the Hilton. It was about max attention with max results.

  SM

• Vain? Agree.

  SM

• Don't people who commit suicide by overdose generally take a fuckload of pills? Will the toxicology report be able to pin down the amount of drugs in her system?

• Here's what I don't understand. If she didn't drown, would she have died anyway. If she had gone to sleep instead of taking a bath or if she was watching TV? I know it sounds like a stupid question but I want to know.

• According to reports, she didn't die of drowning. She died before she went under. The hot water added to the effect and would have brought on death sooner.. as opposed to being in bed. Whitney knew this which is why she always took showers (prior to her decision to end her life.) Her old staff knew this as well which is why they all followed a protocol. The new staff wasn't trained on protocol. The tox. report will prove the level of drugs in her system and the results will then be released. **But media will then report 'accidental overdose' as cause or leave it open to speculation. They never announce 'suicide' as cause of stars' death.

  SM

• The "suicide" theory posted by "SM" and other posters, is idiocy. The elements for that theory are just not there. How she seemed to others in the days and hours beforehand; what they talked about; and how she died. If Whitney was going to kill herself for the reasons others have posted, she'd have done it last year during those horrendous concert appearances when she was touring overseas, separated from family, and became a YouTube trainwreck/laughingstock. Not last Saturday afternoon with her daughter* right there, and when she was about to be together with her family and professional loved ones. *She loved her daughter very much, despite her obvious flaws as a parent. No - her death was either an unfortunate drugs/alcohol stack, or unexpected body malfunction, or combo of both.

• Jeeez, have any of you people ever been wasted? Have any of you been or known a substance abuser? When you're high 60% of more percent of the day, you don't care much about anything because you can't, you're in a mental fog. The fog can become rage, but you're never thinking clearly.

• The poor woman had lost all of her teeth and wore full dentures. At 48 that is a complete bummer, especially if you had started your career as a model. She had been booed, mocked, publicly humiliated, and lost her voice. She was flat broke and was borrowing money from near-strangers. She was mostly lesbian but had deep shame and unfulfilling relationships. She had blown through millions on drugs. These are not reasons to kill yourself--you can get through anything in life. But to someone like Whitney, it may have set her over the edge to suicide.

  the bath has been drawn, bitches!

• Why doesn't old Gene worry about combing that atrocious matted shit on his head he calls hair instead of playing coroner?

  He's so annoying

• R135, the full upper plate was good for Whitney and helped her singing. Before, she used to say S by putting her upper teeth into her lower lip like a teenage boy does to appear grown-up and sound "cool." She had the dentures for AGES, since 1990 at least (see the Star Spangled Banner clip). Perhaps Clive had her get them.

• Well, if GENE SIMMONS said it, it must be true!

• I think suicide is at least plausible. She was publicly humiliated last year with those awful concerts in Australia and her sad showing on Good Morning America. She was bloated. Her voice was failing. She might very well have not been able to escape the trap of thinking that the best years were behind her. I mean, the fact that she ever got up on a stage and warbled out such awful notes last year in the first place indicates that she was not thinking remotely clearly. A person with self love, self respect would not put themselves up to that. If she had been clear headed and a self loving and a good business woman, she would have said "Aw, hell no. My voice is not UP to that right now. So, let's pick songs in a lower register/key this time around." OR she would have simply NOT TOURED. There are other ways to make money. Point is, she was not making many good decisions about her own health (emotional and physical), her own career, her own life. She could have easily AVOIDED all that trainwreck by making better choices. She might, indeed, have felt trapped there at the end and in a haze decided "to hell with it." I mean, just a few nights prior were those awful pics of her leaving the club with blood on her leg and looking a bloated mess. She also could simply have done the Judy Garland thing and not realized how much she had taken. That seems more likely. But suicide is not impossible, sad as that is. She was sort of committing slow public suicide for a long time.

• Whitney had a lot of pressure in her life. A whole lot more than the average person. All the things that made her were no longer available to her. I think she tried very hard to do the right things in the past few years. What once came easy was now more out of reach than she realized. I think she took the humiliation very hard. She was desperate to regain control of her life. Not just for herself, but for all those around her who depended upon her as well. Whitney lost control of her life a long time ago and she tried very hard to gain control again and start new. She was fighting to live and I believe she gave up the fight. It was too much for her to carry. She put on a strong front that most could not see past. She didn't have the right support around her and she wasn't getting the proper guidance that she needed. Her voice didn't leave her. It was just out of shape which she could have had help with fixing as Shania Twain did. She just needed help and didn't get it. She may have thought her life would forever be an embarrassment as she may have thought nobody could/would help her. She opted for the alternative in the end (before the dreaded more embarrassment ahead).. die young and forever immortalized! Whitney will live forever and be remembered for the beautiful voice and gift she shared!! And may she rest in peace. Love her!

  SM

• r140 said it so much more eloquently that I. I want to change what I said about her voice "failing" too. In any of those clips from her disastrous tour, the voice was not "gone" so much as she was straining to make it do things it was not in shape to do. It might never have been the pure instrument of her younger years but she could have ADAPTED to it, like Rosemary Clooney did in her later years. Her range dropped considerably and yet she was a cabaret star for many years. Beloved. Whitney was pressured into still hitting all those same high notes from twenty years ago. And she could not. I, personally, found the performances painful NOT because she had "completely lost her talent" but that she was just trying so damned hard to hit notes that weren't quite there. And she was working SO hard. It was sad because I wanted to get on that stage, hug her and walk her off to get some damned rest. You know "Girl, we are going to get you some vocal coaching, some REST, some tea with honey and a NEW ACT." You are still gorgeous and talented but you need some serious TLC." Why didn't anyone do THAT for her? Perhaps they did and she still gave them all the finger, figuratively and destroyed the voice with drugs, perhaps even DURING that tour? None of us know what drugs she was on at any given time. None of us know what her thought processes were but we do know that she did not HEED the advice she might have been given. I agree that, all things considered, she felt tremendous pressures and probably overwhelmed at starting over again, even though all of it was of her own doing, her own bad choices, going all the way back to marrying Bobby Brown and dumping Robyn Crawford. I think that was, way way back there, her fatal decision, ultimately.

• After seeing what the once beautiful Diana Ross has become on stage at the Grammys, I almost glad Whintey, who had her share of disheveled days, will never be a wrinkled old bat.

• OMG how could CNBC lower themselves to have that asshole on spouting his insurance shit if he would have been anygood in bed after 2000 women just YUCK for him

• I tend to think her death was accidental or perhaps a slow subconscious suicide through years of drug abuse. I doubt she intended to kill herself this past Saturday night. But even if she DID kill herself, I disagree with those who say, "Oh, she loved her daughter too much to commit suicide." Thousands of people kill themselves every year and they often have family and friends that they love dearly. Yet it still happens.

• Not to change the topic too much, but there is a sex video of Gene Simmons that went around the internet a couple of years ago. I can't search for it because I'm at work. But it is recent and he is the most LAZY, LOUSY lay one could ever imagine. I don't even know how the woman in the video got through it without vomiting. She wouldn't kiss him - that was clear. I cannot believe Shannon Tweed still even sleeps in the same bedroom he does.

• I suppose Mama Cass Elliot commit suicide by choking on a roast beef sandwich in bed too.

  Geez

• From TMZ posted 2/15 at 1am Whitney Houston told friends she "really wanted to see Jesus" in the days before her death ... and claimed she had a feeling the end was near for her ... this according to several of Whitney's friends. TMZ has learned ... Whitney had been very spiritual in her final days ... quoting the bible, singing hymns and engaging in intense conversations about Jesus Christ and the afterlife with her close friends and family members. We're told .... on Friday , one day after she performed, "Yes Jesus Loves Me" at Tru nightclub in Hollywood, Whitney told one of her friends, "I'm gonna go see Jesus ... I want to see Jesus." The next morning, hours before her death, Whitney was discussing a bible passage involving John the Baptist and Jesus ... when Houston flashed a big smile and remarked, "You know, he's so cool ... I really want to see that Jesus." Another source tells us ... Whitney had been telling friends she "felt like her time was coming" ... and wanted to make sure she spent her time praising her lord and savior whenever she could. Unfortunately, Whitney's premonition came true.

• I know other people who have known when there time was near and they didn't commit suicide.

  Anonymous

• TMZ We're told the bible passages Whitney was quoting on the morning of her death were Matthew 3:13 through 17 ... referencing the baptism of Jesus. The passage goes: Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” The gravy boat!!! She baptized herself!!!

• Whoops, their not there.

  R%20148

• r146, Mama Cass didn't choke to death, on a roast beef or ham sandwich.

• she was a drug head that died at her own hand and now the cops will blame some doctor or some drug store its her own fault plain and simple

• No one EVER suggested that Cass Elliott choked on a roast beef sandwich, jeeeez! It was always a HAM sandwich.

• Thanks Gene for speaking the truth. I have 2 brothers that died of drug overdoses. Whitney like my brothers had no self control. She had the money to get help and she choose not to. She preferred to be high. It's no tragedy. She was a pig when it came to using drugs & booze just like my brothers. Unfortunately it's those that loved her that are left behind to pick up the pieces. No tragedy. A choice.

• Interesting r149. Anyone remember when Whitney and Bobby got baptized in the Jordan River? It made a lot of headlines. Maybe Whitney was obsessed with baptism.

  http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/7PllI0KRJ6Rl.jpg

• It was the mundane specificity of it being a ham sandwich that gave the tale an air of authenticity not to mention a moralistic overtone in that Mamma Cass was Jewish and ought not to have been eating ham in the first place.

• WTF? A turkey dinner in the bathroom and a gravy boat of olive oil for her skin? Who does that?!?

• Didn't they say the gravy boat was filled with olive oil...and isn't olive oil used in some baptisms...?

• Dont know about the turkey dinner, but TMZ had a hilarious discussion about the benefits of olive oil and why had it her tub.

• I've been dealing with this for over 21 yrs, as an er nurse. Gene Simmons is exactly correct,suicide is not always done with expediency. She made a decision to use and abuse knowing the eventual outcome. WH was a great talent but she made a choice to become a drug addict,certainly there are those that enabled her choice and should be held accountable,but ultimately she has to be held accountable for her decisions and actions. WH talent should be celebrated but her life decisions,as GS says"WHERE PATHETIC" and should be pitied.

  ron%20barnard

• Dare I say this? I have seen interviews after her death where people have said how sweet she was. I didn't see it. She seemed like a shrill, selfish person. That's why I don't buy it was suicide - like a poster said above she was too vain and high on herself to do that.

• Maybe the gravy boat tipped over and she slipped on the olive oil and died. Just kidding... I will admit to some strange grooming habits but the image of a gravy boat of olive oil makes me laugh.

• She anointed herself? Okay, that makes sense. I was thinking it had to do with the appearance of her skin when found. The Bible quotes are all part of the rationalizing of the taking of her own life. The anointing prior to her death was probably due to her beliefs of suicide being a sin. She also told the young girl who won The X-Factor to 'keep the torch lit' when they met a couple of weeks prior to her death. Many red flags!

  SM

• In the TMZ picture of the crime scene, the gravy boat is laying at the bottom of the tub. The whole potential "ceremony" of anointing herself with olive oil seems reasonable. I am starting to get totally creeped out.

• Maybe she was using olive oil as a bath oil/moisturizer, rather than a commercial bath product with chemicals and glycerin that might dry her skin.

• I thought it had to do with skin care too. But knowing the part religion is playing into it now... definitely part of a ceremony she conducted for herself for sure. There's too much evidence to ignore with all this. Those who want to believe otherwise, you are entitled and that's understandable. Truth is never pretty.

• Oh for Christ's sake, she didn't commit suicide! The olive oil was a skin moisturizer. She was a party girl celebrating the weekend of the Grammys by going on a booze-soaked bender. A lifetime of bad habits caught up with her. The end.

• Yes and life is all about one's 'choices' and nothing else as Whitney Houston was an island of her own!

• Another take on this: Whitney's arch-nemesis, Madonna, blows everyone i.e. the world away with her Superbowl performance. This had to have gotten to Whitney on a very deep level. All of the adulation, the extravaganza, the hoopla and flamboyancy dished out by 53-year old Madge who can't sing a lick but looks great, can squat deeply, and has all her teeth MUST have put Whitney on her LAST nerve! I think I have solved the mystery to this puzzle. Whitney committed suicide because of Madonna.

  There, I've said it

• When did Whitney lose her teeth?

• R170, someone here posted that she has been wearing dentures for about twelve years. In her reality show I recall some scenes where she looks to have her teeth out, but did not know she wore dentures. Her mouth has changed shape over the years and yes, she obviously wore dentures.

  and that's the tooth!

• Olive a sudden!

• More like 20 years -- see Super Bowl. Dig those uppers:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jeUINzHK9o

• Whitney Houston has the same teeth she always had. She has what you call 'veneers'.. this preserves the teeth. Very few people remove teeth these days and wear dentures. Unless you are very poor and can't afford veneers as it is expensive dentistry.

  SM

• R173, how do you spot dentures? I don't see them. Don't under-estimate what losing teeth while still young can do to a woman. My grandma apoke often of having dentures while still in her forties--she felt awkward and ugly because of them. This had to be an underlying reason for Whitney's drug abuse.

  more than she could chew

• Man, like let the poor woman RIP. You guys are talking about her teeth?! She is dead for christsakes!!

• R176, we're not being flippant, sometimes your teeth can TAKE YOUR ASS OUT! Grandma always said, take care of your teeth, because you'll regret it when you lose them. Many people have died from infected teeth--yes, I said died! The infection goes up into your brain! Some no-talent- idiot b*tches have great teeth and skate by in life while others, like Whitney, must suffer with the genetic flaws or weakened dental struture. It's not fair, b*tches!

  the bath has been drawn, bitches!

• That's why very few wear dentures these days. Dentistry has evolved since our Grandmas' day. One time if you had a tooth ache, the dentist pulled the tooth. Now they take the root and leave the tooth in tact. A dentist will only pull a tooth now only if it is in very bad shape and beyond repair or if the patient requests the tooth pulled as opposed to paying more for restorative work. Dentures are pretty much a thing of the past. Most have their teeth veneered which does look a little fake still. People with imperfect teeth have it done as well. It's actually the thing to do. Also a show of wealth.

  SM

• Sums it up... Interview given by Robyn Crawford(her childhood friend and assistant)to Esquire. I met her when she was 16. It was at a summer job. I was working at a community center in East Orange, New Jersey, and she was working just like the rest of us. She was there to work. She introduced herself as "Whitney Elizabeth Houston," and I knew right away she was special. Not a lot of people introduced themselves with their middle names back then. She had peachy colored skin and she didn't look like anyone I'd ever met in East Orange, New Jersey. She was nothing like the Whitney Houston she became but at the same time she was already there. She knew, and so did everyone around her. She was doing shows in Manhattan with her mother, and she'd change her clothes in the car and get on stage and do her thing. She hadn't signed her contract yet. But she was modeling for Wilhelmina because she was discovered on the street. She was walking in front of Carnegie Hall and someone walked up to her and said, "There's a modeling agency upstairs that's looking for someone just like you." She walked upstairs and they signed her. That's what it was like, that's what she gave off. She looked like an angel. When my mother first met her, she laughed and said, "You look like an angel, but I know you're not." And she wasn't. But she looked like one. She chose the life she lived, and she chose it from the beginning. She knew the life better than anyone. Her mother was Cissy Houston, and she had been on the road with Dionne Warwick. She got her chops singing in church, and her mother said to her, "You know, you can always sing for free. You can always sing in church. You don't have to choose the professional life." But she chose because she'd been chosen. Some people sing just because. She was never like that. She had to put on her gear. She knew it was going to be a job and that's how she treated it. Once she committed to something, she finished it. Not long after I met her, she said, "Stick with me, and I'll take you around the world." She always knew where she was headed. And we went around the world. I was her assistant and then her executive assistant and then her creative director. I was her point person for the day-to-day. I traveled all around the world first-class and anyone who ever worked for her will tell you her checks never bounced. You knew she was going to take care of you. She wasn't going to be in a five-star hotel while you were in a two. I flew the Concorde the way some people ride the bus. She shared the fruits, and she changed a lot of lives. The record company, the band members, her family, her friends, me — she fed everybody. Deep down inside that's what made her tired. It was never easy. She never left anything undone. But it was hard. The Bodyguard was great when it was done, but it was a lot of work. She did the movie, she did the music, she did everything — and when she was done, she was done. She nailed it. The music supervisor brought her Linda Ronstadt's version of "I Will Always Love You" way before Kevin Costner brought Dolly Parton's version — and she always knew what she could do with it. So when Kevin came in and played it for her and told her he wanted her to sing it for the movie, she said, "Fine." She wasn't much for showing off what she had, except when she had to. I always compare her performance of that song with a great athlete hitting his peak — with Michael Jordan in the playoffs. It was the absolute pinnacle of what she could do, of what anyone could do — and then she had to keep on doing it. Everybody wanted to hear her sing that song, and so she sang it. It didn't matter whether she had a cold, or wasn't in good voice; she had to deliver it, and she had it arranged so she could deliver every last note. And even if the note wasn't there, the feeling was. A lot of her songs were like that. They were a lot to deliver, but she delivered them every note, every time. It's so strange that she died when she did. February was her month. Her first album was released on Valentine's Day, right around the time of the Grammys, right around the time of Clive Davis's party. It was an orchestrated thing. She was Clive's girl, his great discovery. And she died right before Valentine's Day, right before the Grammys, right before Clive's party. Of course, she was going. I don't know if she was singing, I don't know what kind of pressure she was putting on herself. But she was going, that's for damned sure. People thought they had to protect her. She hated that. And that's what people don't understand: She was always the one doing the driving. Someone just called and told me that the family kept Whitney from seeing her. Nobody kept Whitney from doing anything. She did what she wanted to do. When people left her or were told to leave, they could never believe that Whitney would never call them — but she never did. She was working hard to keep herself together, and I think she felt that if she admitted any feeling of sadness or weakness she would crumble. One time, back when we were young, we were out, we were partying, and I said, "Listen, I have to go. I'm tired. I can't make it." And she looked at me with her eyes wide and said, "I've got to make it." And that was Whitney. She could not pick up the phone, and that meant it was too painful. I have never spoken about her until now. And she knew I wouldn't. She was a loyal friend, and she knew I was never going to be disloyal to her. I was never going to betray her. Now I can't believe that I'm never going to hug her or hear her laughter again. I loved her laughter, and that's what I miss most, that's what I miss already. I'm trying not to think of the end. I'm trying not to listen to all the reports. All these people talking about drugs — well, a lot of people take drugs, and they're still around. Whitney isn't, because you never know the way the wind blows. I just hope that she wasn't in pain and that she hadn't lost hope. She gave so much to so many people; I hope that she felt loved in return. She was the action, for such a long time. She's out of the action now. I hope she can finally rest.

• thanks for the laughs r176 and r177

• I think the clowns deserve a round of applause too.

  SM

• That's nonsense. Here's a good article about what's really true regarding poor Whitney.

  http://rumorfix.com/2012/02/whitney-houston-just-the-facts/

  Alex

• [bold]Did Whitney Houston predict her death? [/bold] Just days before the songstress was found dead in her hotel room on Feb. 11, friends said Houston said she "wanted to see Jesus" and "felt her time was coming," TMZ reports.

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/whitney-houston-said-she-wanted-to-see-jesus_n_1280142.html

• I remember the video, R5. He left his T-shirt, and socks on and had his pants around his ankles. He had to spit on his hand to get her wet, and he was chewing gum. He tried to kiss her and she turned her head away twice. I think Foreigner was playing in the background.

  Gene's tastebuds

• Hey guy... this is not about Gene Simmons and his sex tape. Nobody cares. Do you know him personally since you seem to want to attack him? Try doing it to his face (and see what happens) instead of here where everything you say has no relevance to the topic.

• Nobody knows the full truth yet with respect to Whitney. Everything is just speculation based on facts collected. With that being said, right now it looks like probable suicide. New information could come in tomorrow that could completely throw that theory. As of the facts collected so far (that are public knowledge).. I would say suicide for sure. TMZ are not reporting all. They don't know what they don't know.

• Did Whitney Houston predict her death? Come on! Do they think people are stupid with that headline? She didn't predict it, she planned it!

• [quote] With that being said, right now it looks like probable suicide. Where do you draw that conclusion from? First, you complain that everyone is just speculating. Then you proceed to speculate.

• She apparently used olive oil on her skin a lot, you freaks. Anyone losing their teeth would most likely get implants and not dentures.

• First of all, I wasn't complaining. Secondly, maybe the wrong word used.

• Whitney Houston was a very beautiful woman. Why people want to make her toothless is beyond me. She always had perfect beautiful teeth. It didn't appear that she wore dentures or had implants. The most she would have had to have done with her teeth (due to age and wear) would have been veneer overlays. Look at her early pictures and her most recent. Plus the woman was only 48-years old. Not 88!

• The pop megastar, who died in a hotel bath on Saturday, also told pals she "really wanted to see Jesus". According to US website TMZ.com, Whitney was "very spiritual" in her final days — quoting the bible, singing hymns and speaking about the afterlife with friends and family. On Friday, a day after she sang Jesus Loves Me in her final public performance at Tru nightclub in Hollywood, she told one of her friends: "I'm gonna go see Jesus — I want to see Jesus." The following morning, hours before her death, Whitney was discussing a bible passage involving John the Baptist and Jesus.

• "She apparently used olive oil on her skin a lot, you freaks." Reply: She had a gravy boat full of olive oil! The gravy boat was found in the bottom of the tub. Hello?

• Her religious ramblings probably were just a word for her wanting peace.

• R191, you are such a delusional asshole.

• [R195] Am I missing something here?

• Nancy Grace believes she may have been murdered. Maybe due to the two meals: Hamburger & Fries and beer/Turkey Sandwich & Pickle and Champagne. May have been a man in the room.

• a MAN?

  Robyn

• The meals appear gender like. Sorry, I didn't write the rules.

• I don't understand why many people would rather sweep REAL issues under the rug than deal with them! If society don't acknowledge problems, how are they solved? Some issues are sensitive! Better to protect society and the lives of human beings than worry about a comment being 'insensitive' or 'disrespectful'... it's the thinking of society that has to change. Deal with shit head on! Save lives!

• SM, you're a strange one.

• Whitney did drugs for more than 20 years. Why would she want to end it now? Suicide doesn't add up.

• My comments are not personal against Whitney Houston. I really liked her. I think it's a crime that her life went as it did. I believe she took her own life. It doesn't matter to me if you agree or not. I also think it's better to deal in truth.

  SM

• Regarding Whitney's teeth. She either had a full set of implants, a few implants to hold in dentures, or a full set of dentures (which I doubt.) I also doubt that she had caps or veneers put on. Chronic drug abuse leads to poor nutrition, sever grinding, etc. which leads to tooth decay, root canals, etc. There is ABSOLUTELY no way her teeth could have looked that perfect and white after years of chronic hard drug abuse.

• I am 46-years old and like Whitney, I was born with great teeth. The only thing I do to make my teeth look good is have them whitened every 6 to 9 months. So to say that her teeth went from being near perfect to literally falling out is ludicrous! And when the day comes that I have to do something more with my teeth, they will be veneered to preserve. Also, I smoke cigarettes which is why I have them artificially whitened. Don't do drugs! So please, enough with the crap about Whitney's teeth!

• I also had a brother who committed suicide.

• Clive Davis said she was NOT going to sing at the party. Suddenly, it's all over this board and the internet that she was going to sing at the party. She wasn't. Also, add me to those who do not believe she intentionally committed suicide. She killed herself, all right, but it was a slow death over a period of 20 years or so. People build tolerance to benzos, especially when they use them long-term. She had THREE different benzos in her bathroom: Ativan, Valium and Xanax. If she took all three at once and drank liquor, she was tempting death. An addict rarely takes care with their drug abuse. I can bet she didn't have any qualms against taking all three benzos at once or about drinking with those dangerous drugs on board. As someone else already said, the cause of death will probably be not very mysterious. She probably took too many benzos, drank some booze with them and her heart gave out. All of those thing are central nervous system depressants. If you depress your CNS too much, you're going to die. Also, Robyn's eulogy in Esquire was very touching. She says things that make her sound like a former lover at times.

• [R201] You must be from TMZ! TMZ now reporting... Whitney's Death Premonition. Did She Die Happy? Whitney told all her friends exactly what she was about to do. What does TMZ do? .. put a spin on it. Please! The cat is out of the bag.

• I missed the joke there above with 'a MAN' signed Robyn. I don't have an opinion with respect to that because they say that about all celebrities. Not only that, women have close relationships all the time and they are not considered sexual based on closeness. If they are, something seriously wrong. To me it's something that's a non-issue. I thought Robyn wrote a great piece there as well.

• Anonymous @ reply 149 brings up an interesting point and quote but the quote imo is wrong.

  King James Bible 1611 Matthew 3:13 - 17

• Well if Gene Simmons says so, it must be true.

  Brain Dead

• LOL @ Brain Dead "Well if Gene Simmons says so, it must be true." Response to 'Brain Dead's' comment: Hey Brain Dead, FYI: Gene Simmons is not the only one saying that. Although all kudos to Gene Simmons for his truthfulness. He says it like it is!

• John Gambling on WOR Radio in N.Y. just alleged that 9 or 10 years ago, Whitney was a "crack whore" living in abandoned buildings in L.A.

• A Gene Simmons defender bot has shown up.

• Interesting fact: last night on either ET or the Insider, the Minister who married Whitney, performing her funeral rites and who has known her family for over 25 years said when he got the news of her death that 'it wasn't a surprise'. He then said something to the effect that they knew this was going to happen. Her lifestyle was far from a secret and I do believe many people, particularly real friends, did their best with her. Even Jennifer Holliday (the original Dreamgirl)who knew Whitney over 20 years said don't blame Bobby Brown for her drug usage. She was using long before she met him.

• With respect to Bobby Brown, he does hold some responsibility. People need to look beneath her drug use and see the underlying reasons why she was self medicating and escaping. Her marriage to him took a huge toll on her. He was abusive towards her. People usually focus on the physical aspects of abuse but it's not the physical abuse that does somebody in, but rather the psychological abuse. He was mentally beating her down. She was much more successful than what he was and usually when a marriage that is not started on equal footing, it will try and balance itself out. Bobby would either raise himself up to match Whitney or Whitney would lower herself to match Bobby. Bobby was obviously the stronger personality there. Then there's the effects of the psychological abuse itself. **Most self medicate to mentally escape. Not saying it's ALL his fault.. but he played his role!!

• Further to the comment about Bobby Brown... After an abusive relationship ends, the abuse doesn't stop, it usually becomes worse. Bobby wasn't done with psychologically beating Whitney down, he then wrote a book. This man was extremely jealous over her and he was determined to destroy her. Add that to all her other issues. She was only human and being punished for her success. She escaped into drugs.. of course she did. Who was helping her? The girl was done! May she finally rest in peace.

• To the mega multiple posting Tooth Fairy who insists Whitney did not wear dentures, saying that rich people have veneers is like saying 'crack is wack' for people with $$$. It was once REPORTED that Whitney couldn't perform at an event because she forgot her dentures. I believe she was so high she forgot them. Whitney had a full upper plate when she sang the Star Spangled Banner in 1991 -- you can SEE it when she sings. Drug addicts who barf their brains out daily, destroy their teeth. Drug addicts who can barely take care of themselves, bath, comb their wigs, etc, do not necessarily go to the dentist. Deal with it.

• Bobby Brown had someone write the book *for* him: he's illiterate, which would only have added to his resentment of his wife.

• Reading and comprehension of what you read are two different things.. The comment was not that only rich people can afford veneers (LOL).. Teeth ARE used as a show of wealth. Understand that statement or would you like me to further break that down for you? (a just in case hint: what is fashion?)

  The%20Tooth%20Fairy%20

• Whitney must have been a drug addict when she was 15 too. The girl had the same teeth then. Yeah, Whitney was bad. So very bad. Give me a break! She was a victim of people like you. Destructive people!

• And girl you should really stop reading the Enquirer!

• [quote]She was a victim of people like you. Whitney was NEVER a victim, except in the eyes of her adoring fans who bought into the image, could not accept her well publicized lifestyle, and needed (still need!) to find scapegoats like Bobby Brown , Cissy Houston, Clive Davis and/or (yes I'm gonna say it) her lesbianism. None of those are to blame. She was the master of her own fate. Ask ANYONE who knew her, ANYONE who loved her, or ANYONE in the industry.

  A member of the last group

• R220, you need an attorney.

• Need an attorney for what? "Reading and comprehension of what you read are two different things.. The comment was not that only rich people can afford veneers (LOL).. Teeth ARE used as a show of wealth. Understand that statement or would you like me to further break that down for you? (a just in case hint: what is fashion?)" This comment or the other the reply to you? If anybody needs an attorney it would be you. You have yourself a nice life and play nice! RIP Sweet Whitney!

• To a Member of the Last Group Come on? Do you really believe that? No person is an island upon themselves! People are interconnected. We all influence each other. What one does with their lives affects others around them. What you are saying is like saying what Whitney's child (God love her) is responsible for all she's going through right now. We cannot be in denial people. There are issues that have to be dealt with and they cannot be dealt with with when people deny basic truths.

• To r226: I don't disagree with anything you say - we are all a product of our genes and our environment. But to blame a single person or situation for her decline is the true denial here. Especially when we knew her as someone who was very powerful in her field and very much capable and willing of exercising her free will. It's like people who blame their parents for how they turned out to be - even decades after breaking free from them.

  Sorry that your bubble is burst, but it was not Bobby's fault

• r226, get a grip. There are no issues for you to deal with. She's dead. How she got that way is not going to have any bearing on your life.

• R225, you're the Insane Jack Jones Fan, correct? I could tell.

• I obviously have a different perspective on this. There are many factors that lead to the end for Whitney. I don't see it as being any one person's fault. However, I do believe she had people around her that were a negative influence in her life. Plus, addiction to drugs, in my opinion, is not a 'disease'.. it's self medicating and a form of escape (which leads to addiction.) There's underlying issues that cause that. To say Whitney was an 'addict' and everything was her own fault is, in my opinion again, total denial. Nobody wants to be held responsible so lets throw the poor woman under the bus. Lets all forget about the wonderful gift she gave. To label this woman in this way is the biggest tragedy of all. Also, more news is coming in with the last hours of her death and it seems to be swaying away from it being her taking her own life. Time will tell the truth as it will all come out in the wash. This woman's life should be a wake-up call to all. When you see somebody struggling, don't spread horrible rumors and think you're better and cause more harm. Don't see it as an opportunity to exploit the vulnerable. Step up and help! Speak up! Educate! Make noise! And for God sake... TRUTH not DENIAL!

• R230, I like your message of speaking out to save lives. It may be unpopular, and seemingly discourteous, but it shines the light on pain. I want to talk about menopause, and how this may have affected Whitney's mental state and addictions. For those of you who have not experienced menopause, please understand that it causes emotional disorders in MOST women. Some women even say that they go crazy and have thoughts of suicide or even homocide. Couple the natural trials of menopause with long-term drug addiction and malnutrition (every long-term addict and alcoholic is malnourished even if they eat frequently) and you have a recipe for a very dramatic and tragic event. At 48 1/2 years of age Whitney would be thrust full-force into menopause and would be experiencing MAJOR mood swings because of her drug use and poor nutrition. Poor Whitney did not get the support and medical help she needed, and left alone with the nasty mood swings and combative personal life she chose to let go. Girls, the effects of menopause may be lessened and eradicated completely through good nutrition and exercise. It is NOT a death sentence, in fact, it can be the most wonderful, enlightening start of a new life. Dear sweetheart Whitney, we're so sorry you didn't make it through the worst of it.

  with love

• Can we put this topic to rest finally? Nothing new has been said on this in the last 2 days.

• "For those of you who have not experienced menopause, please understand that it causes emotional disorders in MOST women" Let me guess, you're a guy, right? What you wrote is total bullshit.

• Ugh, teeth and menopause! I think Whitney would have preferred that we discuss lesbianism and drug addiction!

• R233, you are either an uninformed whipper-snapper or an in-denial frau. Dearie, once-upon-a-time women were confined to mental institutions due to menopausal psychosis. Thankfully, we all know better and understand that the mood swings, rages, suicidal/homicidal thoughts, memory problems and flat-out spaciness are temporary and natural. Hormones can make or break us, so one better take very good care of themselves starting in their forties. Many women go through HELL during these years and to deny that is disrespectful, especially if you are a woman. Frauline, you better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

  burning up for your love

• You didn't answer the question, dude.

• Most women do NOT descend into emotional psych disorders as part of menopause. If they did there would be a more justified gender bias in the workforce - who'd want to deal with histrionic meltdowns when you can just hire penised persons?

• Agree, R237. It's bullshit. Please no more menopause talk on this Whitney thread.

• Really, R237, have you never held a job? Middle-aged women are often the office crazies, big time. And while they may not scream or cry they will throw you the stink eye. Just to be fair, male weirdos, of any age, are the demise of any healthy work environment. And they seem to just get weirder and more dangerous every day. I am fundamentally opposed to dangerous male weirdos!

  in opposition

• Will you shut the fuck up screaming unfunny asshole r231, 235 239? And refill you Rx.

• The office crazies are actually a lot of young women - and some middle aged ones. And the weird males. The young females actually cause a lot of bullshit.

• R241, you are so right, young women cause the most drama and bullsh*t I have ever seen, for no reason, just because they can. Older women come in a close second with the stink eyes and relentless discourse about their children, often bragging about their happy straight-lace boring worlds. But the real topper are the male weirdos who somehow, someway, luck themselves into a job. I have worked along side of schizophrenic men, autistic social wreck men, murderous men, and seemingly retarded men. Did they lick the 250 pound HR chick to get hired? people have to FLEE jobs, literally, because of the dangerous men who get hired. And these are not jobs that require heavy lifting.

  someone call OSHA

• They like the weird males because they are not going to quit.

• R243, that, or they are afraid to fire them knowing that they'll come back with a gun and blow the office away. And these guys are rarely married and are always staring down women at work, becoming obsessed with every detail of our lives, it just terrible. You almost want to pity-f*ck them hoping you'll make them normal.

  vexed and miffed

• They hate filling out the paperwork for new employees and finding new employees, so they like the weird males who stay because they can't get another job. And yes, the weird males are obsessed with all of the females.

• EXCUSE ME! THIS thread is supposed to be about the GREAT American tragedy that is ME. Get it together cunts.

  http://i35.tinypic.com/ei1sht.jpg

  Nippy

• The weirdo males go home and fantasize about marrying the attractive single women. Their perception of themselves is so skewed that they think the attractive, intelligent female will one day want them too. They are profoundly crazy, but because the fat women in HR are too lazy to do the paperwork, like you said, their insanity can only flourish and diminish the health of the work environment. Believe me, the weirdo male is straining to see the colors of your bras through your blouses and project that you masterbate with a giant dildo. He watches everyone you talk to, and listens in on your lunch conversation. He imagines that you will take him home to your mom's for Christmas dinner, and does a complete google/spokeo search every night to see if there are any changes.

  ugh!

• They think the attractive intelligent female should want to fuck them because they think they are fucking the women in porn they jerk off to 24/7. And when they don't - they are bitches.

• Thread hijacked!

• R248, that's so right, and because they have never had sex with a real, live woman they think we're all kinky and like to be penetrated in every orifice with giant dildos. This is what makes these men so dangerous: lack of real-world experience and repressed anger towards women. I look at some of these male weirdos and wonder who would ever be with them, what with the same sweat-stained shirt they wear day after day--if they are paying prostitues these poor women should be trillionares!

  quentin tarentino

• I don't know what all this is about now... but to make a comment about menopause {R231}.. You are absolutely right. It certainly does make your life much more difficult to deal with. I was thinking that but didn't add it (another issue/topic.) Thank you for adding and recognizing Whitney and what she must have been going through. And yes, this topic is done. All that could be said has been for sure. Well from me anyway. :) May God bless All!

• I didn't read all the posts past [R231] before responding. Just read the responses to his... All I can say is LOL. How much denial is society in at all? Over & Out!

• Turkey sandwich in the bathroom!!!! Gravy boat floating in the tub!!!

• One last post from me... felt a need to add this: This is what they are calling 'disease'... If you repeat a behavior that is not healthy, it leads to disease (or you have a disease.) **If you repeat a behavior that is healthy, it leads to success!** How the brain (habit) works (the basics).. When you repeat behaviors, they form paths. Once the path is made, it's permanent. If you form a habit (good or bad), it's hard to break it. The reason being is you can't 'break it'.. you have to distract yourself with a new habit. Whitney went from singing (habit) to drugs (habit).. she strayed from her singing which means she could do the same with drugs. She just needed to replace her habit with a new one With that being said, once the habit is formed, it's very easy to fall back into.. especially at the beginning which is why you need to stay away from all influences. Over time, the path becomes weaker and the longer away from the influences the better. While the path will always be there, it will no longer have any affect unless you decide to form the habit again. This time, the habit will be very quick as you will activate the extisting path. This is what they are calleding 'disease'.. it is NOT disease. It's actually just how your brain works.. for EVERYBODY! We live in a world where the strong exploit the weak. 'Disease' is pure exploitation in my opinion. The treatments used are exactly right.. To call it 'disease' is not! Whitney didn't have a 'disease'... that's crap! She needed real help from real people and didn't get it. RIP Whitney.

• She would not have left her daughter alone like that purposely. She didn't commit suicide.

• If you're not watching Dr. Drew on HLN, you are missing out on some COMEDY GOLD. He is going nuts on a nightly basis over this - holding up a list of names of celebrities that have died from overdoses and then slamming it down on the counter, yelling, giving his guests a standing ovation, and almost openly wheeping over DJ AM's death. I can't even begin to describe.

• Add to all other red flags here that may suggest that... Reports are that Whitney was flat broke. She may have felt she WAS protecting her daughter.

• Good for him. Make lots of noise. Maybe he'll make a difference and we won't lose another Michael Jackson or Whitney Houston!

• "Thankfully, we all know better and understand that the mood swings, rages, suicidal/homicidal thoughts, memory problems and flat-out spaciness are temporary and natural." In men they seem to be permanent.

• Oh that's good! And so true! LOL Just wanted to add here that nobody knows exactly what happened to Whitney yet. This has been a shock to everybody and everybody is asking questions and sharing information to try and make sense of all. It takes time for all information to come to light and information on this stream is a reflection of people just trying to understand what had taken place this past week. I don't believe there's anybody here trained in forensic science so those reading the comments should really take that into consideration before accepting anything as an absolute truth. What may appear true today can be proven false tomorrow.

• Drugs addicts do kill themselves. It may not be instantaneous, but they truly die by their own hands.

• We will miss you Whitney. May your soul rest in peace.

• I think the debate of how she died is still open ended and not confirmed yet... Some say she died by taking drugs over a prolonged period of time and slowly killed herself that way. Others say by drinking alcohol and then taking her prescribed medication creating a deadly mix resulting in an accidental overdose. And then there's the people who think she planned the whole thing and deliberately took the prescribed medication with alcohol knowing it would be the end. The toxicology report will tell what was in her system and at what levels. She apparently has been off the hard drugs for a while and only prescribed drugs were found in her room.

• Most drug addicts die either from Methadone or prescription drugs. It's not the hard stuff that kills them. There are various reasons for this. One is that their threshold to actually experience something from a prescription drug is very high, so they take way too many pills trying to feel an effect from them. Addicts will combine alcohol and prescription drugs because the drugs themselves don't give them enough of the high that they're seeking. They can also be deadly because doctors will prescribe things to try to wean the addict off harder drugs, but the addict will combine those pills or the methadone with alcohol and harder drugs to get a bigger high. I also think we have to take the info that she hadn't been on hard drugs with a grain of salt. There were many times that she and the people around her said she was sober when clearly she was not. And, ultimately, the closet killed Whitney. The drugs, booze, etc...she was trying to anesthetize pain over something. It's not the first time that a closet case became a serious addict to run away from their true selves.

• I agree with what you say. I certainly wasn't making light of prescription drugs nor all the poor girl has been through. The whole thing makes me angry and I've made a few comments here expressing my thoughts. That last remark was one of my 'calmer' responses on this topic. Whitney will be buried tomorrow and was trying to make peace with this senseless death! Have you read this thread through. All that could be said has already been said. I do believe its been exhausted already!

• Well, then, shut UP, aleady. Jeez.

• LOL

• She killed herself to save her daughter. It was no coincidence that THE DAY BEFORE, Bobbi Kristina was found unconscious IN THE SAME BATHTUB and needed to be rescued. No coincidence--and no surprise that this story came out and disappeared ASAP. But someone unexpectedly saved BK. WH had to pay for that broken deal with her own life, or BK would've joined the family of Jennifer Hudson. That is the truth behind WH's disheveled appearance, erratic behaviors, sweats, blood drops on left leg, long scratch on wrist, and note-passing to Brandy. Whitney Houston knew, and left everything in her will to her daughter. Still, she hoped to sing "Jesus Loves Me" at the pre-Grammy party. And the grotesquerie that was the Clive Davis Party, with the WH torch passed to Jennifer Hudson under the disembodied face of WH while the REAL BODY was LITERALLY right above the crowd; and the Grammy "exorcism" of Nicki Minaj's levitating dead body, both events treated by the media as just "Show-Biz."

  Frankie "Five Angels" Pentangeli

• so dam what mother fucker hell i fuck whitney houston before and far as her hitting notes your punk wannabe ass couldnt hit a note is dam million dollar was sittting on bitch so get the fuck off whitney bitch this is the mother fuckin thadiva123 talking thats people do is lye on other show some mother fufukin respect asshole punk bitch i ate whitney houston pussy and love it to even when she was her mom walk in on us and whitney was fucking my tongue with her click and told me to suck it out of her pussy or some say twat which is a more sexy version im in love with her since she was 13-years -old im not a shame we also pussy fuck as well and i love i went down on her and suck her dry and she said i dont know i like it thadiva i just do get the dam point meaning she like me eating her pussy so show some respect for her daughter and mom bitch sign thadiva123.