- Someone said Robyn is a lawyer now. Any pictures of her online?
- You know they will disrespect Robyn at the funeral.
- Its so sad for Whitney,I met her and Robin in Paradide Island back in 1989 or 1990 they took pictures with me and a friend AND WERE VERY MUCH IN LOVE please robin i know your devastated but tell your story
- It reminds me of Marilyn and Johnny Hyde. They banned her from his funeral.
- there is a thread "Robyn Crawford" which has a link to Robyn's eulogy printed up in Equire magazine this week.
- [quote]I met her and Robin in Paradide Island back in 1989 or 1990 they took pictures with me and a friend AND WERE VERY MUCH IN LOVE please robin i know your devastated but tell your story
That was such a long time ago. Even if it was a forced break up I think that this woman would be over it by now. Besides, it doesn't seem that she and WH had any contact in years.
- Who kept Whitney from being who she wanted to be sexually? Was it Cissy, Clive or both?
- Robin met WH when she was 16yo. First Love never dies.
- Yes this is so sad... I have always been a big fan of Whitney Houston. Now to the person who wanted to know if Whitney & Robyn stayed in contact.. Yes they did, Whitney have mentioned that in interviews, everytime she get asked. She said they were still good friends.... The news of her death rocked me like, she was my own.. I just pray for her family that they get through this...
- They remained in touch, although not often. Both had long moved on with their lives.
- What is going on in Robin's personal life? Is she married? With a woman? Single but an out lesbian?
- Another thread said that Robyn is involved with someone from Esquire, hence the story.
- Why is everyone so obsessed with Robin and Whitney? It's been over forever and first loves do die and move on.
- "Its so sad for Whitney,I met her and Robin in Paradide Island back in 1989 or 1990 they took pictures with me and a friend AND WERE VERY MUCH IN LOVE please robin i know your devastated but tell your story"
How do you know they were in love? Also, do you mean Paradise Island? I am not so sure anymore that she was really gay and tormented.
- r11, according to the people in the know on lipstickalley say Robyn has now been in a civil partnership with a lady (who works at the magazine that published Robyn's article) and they share a house. Obviously Robyn is out and happy in her life.
Here is a picture of them.
- Another picture of Robyn and her partner.
- She is so super cool in this late 80s MTV interview. She looks like Lauren Hill. I never heard much about her philanthropic side. She is quite sweet talking about the Special Olympics and it the close ups of her singing at the Special Olympics she looks so hot.
- I'm a Flight Attendant with American Airlines and I worked a flight when both Robin and Whitney were passengers----this was around 1989 I believe. The sat in first-class together on the DC-10 from LA to Newark. I remember how much they doted on each other during the flight, slept on each other's shoulders, etc.-----they were truly in love, and it was very obvious. How her life probably would have been so much better had she simply spent it with the love of her life: Robin.
- I hope Robyn writes a book one day, not to be scandalous, but so that people can see what happens when you try to deny your true sexuality.
- Whitney seemed pretty butch at times.
- Thanks, r18.
- Her handlers unfortunately patterned her after the glam-chanteuse style of Dionne Warwick. Wigs, weave and long dresses.
Imagine if she'd taken that voice and gone a different route, militant lesbian rapper, ala Lauryn Hill or Sista Souljah?
Alas, it was a different time.
- Did Robyn Crawford attend Whitneys funeral? I read the article in Esquire magazine and I have seen pictures of Robyn on the internet with another woman. I hope she writes a book like so many others are hoping as well. I believe that she and Whitney were lovers but only God can judge that. I accepted that she was talented, blessed by God and very flawed. Too bad she couldnt get her act together for a comeback. But really, I think God had given her a lot, more that what He gave to a lot of others and it was her turn to fly into His arms for all of eternity. I hope Bobbie K turns her life around, but due to the strong family dynamics of drug addiction in both Bobby and Whitney's families, I think the po' chile is doomed.
Wind Dancer 435
- Whitney, sure seemed like a top that 's for sure. Robin is a good looking woman. hopefully she will write a book. I think it would be in good taste since she seems to be an intelligent, together woman.
Sorry Whtiney felt she had to try to be straight with Bobby Brown. Wasn't fair to him, thought I am sure he thought he's get come career action out of the marriage.
- This article is by the same guy who met them at a HIV event years ago.
- Robyn would be one pathetic woman if she is still wallowing in this shit.
- R3, do you mean Paradise Island in The Bahamas?
- Whitney deserves to rest in peace without being hijacked by the gay agenda. It's a bit rough outing her when she can't defend herself.
posted in the comment section of the Daily Hate Mail
- I will always Love Whitney,But Robyn should be able to tell her story.
- "Robyn would be one pathetic woman if she is still wallowing in this shit."
What a cold and idiotic thing to say. Even if she had truly moved on I am sure Houston's death was devastating. It would be for anyone with human emotions but you don't seem to have those.
- Interesting piece, with an intro by a young Bill O'Reilly.
- Come on Robin, stop throwing hints about ya'll rumor relationship, u are tryin to tell people in a round about way, but yet saying u would never betray her. Just wish her well with a straight to the point sweet goodbye. You tryin to tell people ya'll was together, but u know u got to watch what you say cuz she got people still living that will twist your hat back. If ya wanted to out her u should have done it when she was alive. Woman please...we already have a feeling u and whitney was lovers or whatever, u just tryin to confirm it in a slick,sneaky way. We know u gay, and u do want people 2 know about whitney and u together, else u would word things strickly about her wishing well only, then leave it alone. You just can't say anything straightout cuz u sign a promise. So shut the hell up pussy footin around.
- Wow, r31, she certainly wasn't denying anything there, just saying my private life is my private life and I'm not talking about it. Reading between the lines, it's almost as though she came out.
Her dad is half Italian. Anyone know anything about Whitney's Italian family?
- Why do you keep asking about her Italian roots?
Meanwhile, that video IS revealing. Poor Whitney.
- Because I think it's interesting and haven't learnt anything about it beyond the fact her dad is half-Italian. There is a lot about her being African-American but she was also part Italian, just wondering what her Italian grandmother's input might have been. Her dad looked very Italian.
- [quote]she certainly wasn't denying anything there, just saying my private life is my private life and I'm not talking about it. Reading between the lines, it's almost as though she came out.
Get therapy r33.
- What? Did you actually listen to that interview? Check it out from about 3 minutes. The pronouns she's using are also revealing "Not that I'm sleeping with this one, that one", as opposed to "this guy, that guy". Even r34 thinks the video is revealing and he/she's bashing me on another thread.
What I did just learn from my work-avoidance procrastination is that her father's mother was called Sarah Elizabeth Collins (ok, not so Italian), she had a number of half-siblings from her parents' various marriages. Her father John was married three times, his last marriage coming in 1992, the year in which he divorced Whitney's mother, and from which he had another daughter. Also, Whitney had at least two miscarriages, in 1994 and 1996. Seems like she had a whole lot of sadness in her life.
- Could Robyn be on the payroll to keep her mouth shut?
- How is that video revealing?
- There was a Channel 5 documentary on UK TV tonight which supported the Robyn Crawford rumours - she was Whitney's lover. Showed Whitney's drug dealer, one 'Uncle Bob' who said he sold Whitney drugs before Bobby Brown came on the scene. He also said that WHitney was a lot older than Bobby and perhaps the more experienced drug user. They developed a co-dependent drug-taking relationship which hastened her demise....
- According to ET, Robyn stands to inherit some of Whitneys fortune
- Hurray for Robin!
- R41, I disagree. BK should inherent all of Whitney's fortune...
- Wait, what? I have not found this information anywhere. Do you have a link,to reply .
- ENOUGH THREADS ABOUT THIS WORTHLESS, DEAD CRACKHEAD.
- R43, no, the money should go to who Whitney designated it for. Some of it likely will go to BK - but hopefully, not too much as she seems to have a weakness for drugs herself. I'd hate to see her follow her mother's path.
- R45 Why you lookin' at me (Oh...oh...)
My following is real strong/ You got the heart to show the world what I do/ Now I'm turnin' the cameras back on you/ Same spotlights, the ones who gave me fame/ Tryin' to dirty up Whitney's name....
- So what is crack like? I'll never do it but am curious about why certain people get really sucked in by it.
- Beautiful pic of Robyn at link.
Robyn is also one of the backup singers in the video for You Give Good Love. Early on whitney def had more of a lez/andro look.
- R30? You project much?
- I am R41, I have no proof, just reporting what ET said the other evening. They gave a list of people that might benefit from her, Robyn being one of them.
- Are you people insane? There is NO MONEY. Only debts and IRS bills.
- And you're stupid enough to believe tabloid gossip from an "insider" over Forbes r52?
- Her back catalogue just got a huge boost. So even if her estate is running low it's going to grow, the way MJ's did.
- Plus her mama is selling footage of the funeral to the media to boost the value of the estate.
- Most of Whitney Houston's music catalog is owned by Sony. Whitney sold it to cover expenses for drugs and living expenses.
Read the link below starting at the 4th paragraph.
- R56, I thought record companies and/or the songwriter and publisher always held the rights. The royalties, which Whitney would have recieved throughout her life and which now presumably go to her heirs, is a different issue. She didn't sell any of her rights to pay for her drug habit, so please stop trying to spread crap.
- Whitney sang on her second Lp a song my best friend wrote. I always knew about Robyn from her. At the time of that recording, my friend said Robyn was always with Whitney and they were in love, and a great couple. Whitney was beginning to soar and was getting a lot of pressure. I had always heard that Robyn broke it off after many years of them being together because Robyn was not going to hide who she was. From the way I had always heard it from those who knew Whitney. It had more to do with Clive Davis than it did anyone else. Additionally, it was thought that Whitney would be good for Bobby' image/career as well.
I'd always heard that Whitney was always supportive of gay/lesbian issues and the community audience. I think anyone would eventually suffer from pretending to be something they were not. Homophobia kills.
RIP Whitney Houston
- It sounds like Robyn was a good influence on Whitney.
- Casey,J what was the name of the song your best friend wrote for Whitney.
- so sad, and infuriating, r58. I posted on another thread about hearing early on about Whitney and Robyn, and knowing someone involved in Whitney's PR. She'd told me how whitney was pretty open with those who knew her, and was edging her way out of the closet in her career, but then there was huge pressure on her to stop it and 'revive' her image. it was so disillusioning when all of a sudden it was all "Whitney denies the rumors".
- It's sad that Whitney was pressured. It seems like she would've been much better off living her life.
- That's interesting, r58, and also adds another dimension: we've all been assuming that Whitney dumped Robyn, whereas it may actually have been the other way around. Just to add more sadness in Whitney's life.
- It's a shame that she married Bobby Brown. I can't imagine what that must have been like on a daily basis.
- RIP Whitney
- I feel bad for her daughter.
- Anyone knows in what year Robyn was not longer part of Whitney life, someone said 2000 or 2002. Was Robyn her maid of honor in her wedding with Bobbie Brown?
- To reply , Robyn left in 2000. Her and Bobby fought about who would advise Whitney. Whitney chose Bobby cause that was her husband. This according to an interview with Diane Sawyer back in 2002.
- It's also possible that Whitney really wanted to be straight.
- Maybe Whitney really wanted to be straight.
- It all makes sense now Whitney was hurting , because she had to hurt that someone she so loved to be what the world wanted her to be . Its so obvious think of her songs when she was with Robyn full of love and heart but once she made that move her songs started to change , her life changed ....she was living a heartbreak hotel . We love you ! We miss you ! Wish we could of met .
- Yeah, r70, 71, but she WASN'T.
- She probably did want to be straight, most of us do at some point. It's also a reason so many people start drinking/using.
- Why didn't she come out once she divorced Bobby? There wasn't as much pressure on her career.
- R75, I want to mull on that a bit. I think that I agree with you (but Whitney was still hugely popular within the black gosepel performers set so there's that)
Then again...there's always the case of George Michael but he was forced out of the closet.
Whitney would have never been the Whitney of old
- A lot of people within the black gospel set are gay!
- R69, that's so interesting because less than a year after Robyn left, Whitney performed at a 2001 concert to honor Michael Jackson. Whitney looked hideous - her arms were skeletal, her recently enhanced breasts ballooned ridiculously against her bony chest. She gave a poor performance, and her publicist had to issue a statement about Whitney being in good health because so many questions were asked.
It appears Whitney spiraled in the two years after splitting with Robyn, culminating in the 2002 Diana Sawyer interview. (Crack is whack!)
That convinces me more than anything that Robyn was the stabilizing force in her life and Bobby Brown was the slippery slope.
- R77- And most of them are closeted gay bashers too, for that matter.
- Initially I was not sure if the rumors were true about Whitney, but over the last few weeks I have read so many posts on different boards and articles, including this one, from people who are providing direct or indirect accounts of Whitney not being heterosexual.
From Whitney's former sister-in-law Tina Brown, a former limousine drive, a former body guard, a person who was a part of her PR team, a person who was present during Whitney's early career during recording sessions, etc.
It is hard to deny when you read direct comments from people who actually knew and worked with Whitney Houston.
This is very different from the rumors surrounding other celebrities that I have read about over the years.
This is so sad! To think that Houston could generate millions of dollars and provide jobs to countless family members and friends and then at the end of the day still feel trapped like your life was still not your own to do as you may have preferred....horrible!
- Whitney's life was sad. I wonder how Bobby and Robyn felt about each other.
- What song did your friend write r58?
- Anonymous..Your story seems to be FABRICATED because you won't even put a "name" to your claim. Secondly, I don't believe for a minute that Whitney would sit in first class...doting on a woman IF SHE WAS IN "THE CLOSET" about her sexuality AND PUBLICLY DENYING that she was gay.
- And then you have psychotics like R83 who are so AGHAST at the THOUGHT of someone being GAY that they take to RANDOMLY posting in ALL CAPS!
Take a chill pill, rockdiva. Whitney was gay or bisexual. It's not the END of the WORLD!
- Why would the flight attendant make it up? So many people have stories about the two of them.
- Whitney allowed herself to be affectionate with Robyn when:
1. there were no video cameras
2. she was high
- Why would you say she was high when she was affectionate with her?
- I am also exhausted by this odd troll who is so offended by any suggestion that Whitney wasn't 100% heterosexual. I can't imagine this person is a lesbian or even a gay man as why would that get under the skin of anyone who is gay themselves. I think it must be someone who is obsessed with her and keeps trolling any site where her name is mentioned.
As someone else said there are waaaay too many stories about her and Robyn for them all to be fabricated. I can't imagine why this is so upsetting to the troll.
If you knew Whitney and Robyn personally and were in their inner circle back in the late 80s and 90s then say who you are and why we should believe you. Otherwise you are just another freak who goes ballistic when Whitney's het card is question. You need help.
- Did Whitney date any women after she divorced Bobby?
- R87, when Whitney was high she was not aware that she was being watched.
- Also when you're high inhidbitions drop considerably, and the horns come on - gee have you guys never been high?
- I wish Whitney had been comfortable enough to live openly and freely.
- I wonder if Robyn will get anything at all in Whitney's will or will she get nada just like Bobby Brown, according to rumours...
- It sounds like BK got everything.
- WH dated Cherelle after her and Robyn broke up and there were others. I wish the NE had a better archive because years ago I remember reading that she was doing sex and drugs with other women in it. The NE has all the details but their archive online does not have it.
- Cherelle was on an episode of the reality show. Whitney told BK she was with "Aunty Cherelle."
- With all the hype surrounding the Oprah Winfrey interview with Whitney's daughter, brother and sister-in-law that will air on the OWN network this Sunday night, there have been a few clips put out as teasers from the interview that was actually taped last Friday.
In one of the clips I saw today, Whitney's sister-in-law Pat Houston said something I found a little interesting. She stated that in Whitney's last days she believed Whitney had conquered her addiction problems, but she was concerned about Whitney's "LIFESTYLE".
I found that word and interesting choice of words. As gays how many times have we heard the word "LIFESTYLE" used many times in reference to anyone who is bisexual or gay. Our lives are always described as a "LIFESTYLE", "THE GAY LIFESTYLE", etc.
Most of the discussion I have on a few straight oriented boards today on this clip from Pat Houston, assumed Pat was talking about Whitney's so-called "friend" Ray J. But could Pat had also been award of Whitney's involvement with females as that is why she used that wording?
Very rarely have I ever heard of a straight person referring to each others love lives as a "LIFESTYLE".
- I don't understand why Pat would say "lifestyle" either.
- Thanks for posting that, r97. I won't be able to watch the interview, but I am really hoping there is a good write up about it or youtube clips.
I wonder how much the family is being paid? You know this interview is going to draw a lot of viewers.
- Pat Houston talked about Whitney chasing a young man. I don't know if that's what meant by "lifestyle."
- I wonder what Robyn really thinks of all of this.
- She was obsessed with Ray J. This lesbian stories seem like wishful thinking.
- Have you ever heard of bisexuality R102?
Bisexuality is when an individual is attracted to both men and women.
- It has been mentioned that Ray J is involved with selling and using drugs. It also has been reported that Whitney's drug dealer was staying in the Beverly Hilton while she was there for the pre-Grammy festivities.
It's looks like, just like with Bobby Brown, Ray J may have been another drug buddy "partner".
So I can see why she was "lusting" after him alright. Unfortunately, "lusting" after those drugs he could supply her with.
- Whitney was using Ray J to get to Brandy.
- I read that RayJ was shopping a reality show that would feature Whitney.
- I read that too R106 and it was confirmed by Ray J's publicist.
The publicist also stated that she was not sure if Ray J would continue with the project since Whitney died.
- So RayJ used Whitney for the reality show? She didn't need to appear on another reality show!
- Who gives a fuck about Gay J?! Stop talking about that piece of crap.
- R102, you must renew your meds .
- A poster on Lipstick Alley mentioned that one of the reasons that John Houston (WHs dad) initially freaked out over Whit's romance with Robyn Crawford was that Whitney was underage at the time...only 16. Robyn was 18 and in college.
- Didn't Whitney attend a private all girls school? Perhaps she had experimented with schoolmates and classmates. It's not that farfetched. Necking and petting in those dark and secret nook and crannies of the school. While 16 and 18 (and in college) would be a concern, perhaps Whitney knew or suspected that maybe just maybe that she would not be all together straight BEFORE she met Robyn.
It's not that anyone at least from what I've read just wants discuss this for the sake of discussion, but so far no one can produce a picture of an erratic Whitney, a stoned Whitney, a disheveled Whitney. No one can account for an unprofessional Whitney, a Whitney who performed poorly, arrived late or cancelled a performance Whitney. Even the NE hasn't been. able to produce an article or photograh of a less than stunningly beautiful Whitney Houston comfortable in her own skin, taking the music industry by storm and all in the company of her beloved Robyn Crawford.
Contrast the Whitney of 2001, the year AFTER Robyn left because she could no longer take seeing her dear friend decline. In one year, Whitney Houston appeared literally emaciated at a performance for Michael Jackson. Throughtout the 90's after her marriage to Robert Baresford "Bobby" Brown, it was one problem after another, one photo of erractic behavior after another, one critique of a poor performance after another. Why? The constrast is too stunning to ignore. Robyn Crawford gave something to Whitney Elizabeth Houston so precious, so priceless that Whitney spent the remainder of her life searching for what she chose to relinquish.
Like it or not, Robyn Crawford was the true love of Whitney Houston's life. Whitney loved Robert Baresford "Bobby" Brown. He just wasn't the love of her life.
Robyn and Robert two individuals probably mired with a deep seated hatred for one another, forever linked together through the love of a beautiful, phenominally talented, tragically flawed woman, Whitney Elizabeth Houston.
- Did Robyn go to the funeral?
- Yes, R111, I'm sure that was what truly worried him, not, y'know, the lesbian thing.
In any case, Cissy and John seem to have made peace with the 2 of them living together right after Whitney finished high school... so I'm not sure they knew the whole story straight away.
- "Didn't Whitney attend a private all girls school? Perhaps she had experimented with schoolmates and classmates. It's not that farfetched. Necking and petting in those dark and secret nook and crannies of the school. While 16 and 18 (and in college) would be a concern, perhaps Whitney knew or suspected that maybe just maybe that she would not be all together straight BEFORE she met Robyn."
That definitely could have happened. I also wonder if something may during one of her modeling shoots, although I think she may have already been with Robyn at that point. Some of her old modeling photos look as if they were shot somewhere in the Caribbean. I have known friends who worked in that industry and supposedly it is not unusual for those models (no matter their sexuality) to get involved with some hanky panky while doing shoots. As an aside, In one of her modeling photos there is a group of women playing on the beach and one of them looks just like a young Phoebe Cates.
I still think that Whitney may have been extremely screwed up and conflicted about her sexuality and although she slept with Robyn (and possibly other women) she didn't consider those "real" romantic situations. I was chased and seduced once by a woman who then later claimed that she was 100% straight. She downplayed and belittled our experience together so much that at times I began to question what had really happened and it fucked with my head. I think she just couldn't or wouldn't accept that she was at least bisexual. So odd since she pursued me so heavily. Even though things have changed, I think that unfortunately, anything other that 100% heterosexuality screws with a lot of women's heads and they have a hard time accepting it.
- [quote]I was chased and seduced once by a woman who then later claimed that she was 100% straight. She downplayed and belittled our experience together
Same here. The "straight" woman later joined a Holy Roller Church to pray the gay away.
- Did Whitney have serious relationships with women besides Robyn?
- I think that initially she felt a great deal more comfortable in her skin about her sexuity. The problems didn't start until the "rumors" had become so horrendous that something had (supposedly) to be done. The straight side of her wanted to have children. The gay side was quite content to enjoy her life as is with Robyn.
Whitney definitely had a butch-androgenous thing going on when she was at the top of her game. Just take a look at the way she's sitting in the "I Will Always Love You" video. There's even a picture of her wearing a dark pinstripe suit with a necktie while she stands on one end while Robyn stands on the other with husband Bobby and Mother Cissy in the middle. Makes one wonder.
I believe that Whitney so wanted after she married to "forget" about her proclivities. Yet, even the NE relayed that when stoned, her inhibitions dropped to zero, she had sex with other women. Hey, even her own former husband hinted that the marriage was doomed because of th ALLEGDED need for his wife to quell all rumors about her ALLEGDED bi-sexuality.
Whitney, once she did the "right thing", she would never be able a accept that she soared with a woman and crashed with a man.
- Not sure it could be called "butch", R118, but the ultra-femme diva in glittery dresses was definitely Clive's creation. Look at the way she's sitting in this interview with Mariah. (In which she also seems kinda drugged out of her mind, btw.)
- If Whitney was gay why was she linked to so many men? Randall Cunningham, Eddie Murphy, Johnnie Gill, Ray J. After she divorced Bobby Brown she could have found another woman if that what she really wanted. Robyn wasn't in a civil partnership when they divorced. She could have done that. Just like Oprah and Gail are friends, they were just friends. Whitney denied it many many years ago and Robyn denied it as well. But all in all, she's gone and we all have lost a great icon.
- Are you serious 120? Johnny Gill is gay! Eddie Murphy is a bad example too.
- Randall Cunningham is a bad example too. Both he and Whitney said they were just friends.
And Robyn's been with her wife at least since 2003, so you're wrong about that too, R120.
And we don't know Whitney didn't find another woman. Let's be honest, nobody paid much attention to her for a decade (the public embarrassment of Being Bobby Brown notwithstanding).
- Just like Rock Hudson was linked to some of the most beautiful and talented female stars and starlets of the "Golden Age of Hollywood".
A black, stunningly beautiful, supremely talented female superstar of Whitney Houston's caliber coming out of the closet? Really? Could anyone be kidding about such insanity!!! I know in the 80's and 90's this would never have been accetable. Today, I don't think Whitney's revelation of a struggle with her sexuality would still go over well in the Black Community and of course it would have not gone over at all in the Black Church.
Rock Hudson would have gone to his grave a heterosexual male had AIDS not ripped him out of the closet. Besides, who of us can say that now Whitney is immortal, perhaps she is free to warn us TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES!!! This doesn't mean that you give in if you don't want to. This means that you accept and acknowledge the TRUTH about yourself.
Look Oprah and Gale are good friends. However, the bond between Robyn and Whitney was so profound that when Robyn left in 2000, a skeletal Whitney took the stage to honor, Michael Jackson. Hmmmmm. Where did Whitney's broken heart go? With Robyn everything remained in tact. Without Robyn, it all shattered into a million pieces NEVER to be restored.
- R120 = visitor from another planet
- Robyn's new wife (the white chick) is a bit meh. She has definitely traded down. And Robyn is a fine-looking butch.
- I wonder how Whitney felt about Robyn moving on to someone else.
- Wasn't Robyn's wife working for Whitney as a publicist for a while? When was that? Before or after Robyn left?
- And R125, you must have slept through the 2000s. Whitney was a mess.
- Poor Whitney was a mess in the 2000s. I had always liked her and I remember avoiding the tabloid reports about her and the reality show because it was too sad to watch. I actually didn't realize til after she died just how far she had fallen back then as I avoided any of those stories and pictures of her then. It is amazing how so many of the tabloids and gossip columnist seemed to enjoy her downfall. What kind of person takes joy in watching a once beautiful and talented woman go through such pain? Before she became a mess I don't recall hearing any stories about her being a horrible person to deal with unlike many celebrities (JLo in the 2000s?) yet it seems the tabloids were cheering on her decline like it was a sporting match. Disgusting.
It is so incredibly sad that she died way too young and it seems like she still had a lot of leeches mooching off of her. I am glad though she didn't die in one of those awful crack dens that she supposedly frequented years ago. That would have been even more tragic.
- [quote]And we don't know Whitney didn't find another woman.
Because she wasn't interested in them.
- A lot of people (including many here) resented Whitney for being a closet case. They were not unhappy to see her slide, lose her voice & looks, stay married to a loser. It was like she deserved what she got.
- Whitney found sex with lots of woman. She saved whatever emotion she had left for drink & drugs and trying to be married to Brown.
- The masses who cheered her decline just said druggie-loser and felt superior because they were not addicts and maybe jealous because she was once a superstar and rich (the masses didn't know about the gay rumors - still don't, apparently). And the media broadcasted it all because they are heartless and want to make money off of it.
- Learn English, R130. That sentence wasn't a question.
- Bullshit r131, the people who run tabloids and gossip sites are parasites and scum and they were laughing at her decline. Have you paid any attention to the tabloid scandal in the UK? These are the same people who hacked into a kidnapped girl's cell phone to get information which gave her parents false hopes that maybe she was still alive when she was in fact dead. These are not nice people.
I am not a fan of closeted people either but to say someone deserved what they got because of that is gross to me. Whitney may not have even been consciously closeted. I still think she might have been tormented or at the least conflicted about her attraction to women. You can not respect her for that but, to be happy that she became a pathetic drug addict is vile. Btw, her drug problems had to run deeper than being a closet case. I have known out gay people who have drug problems.
- The masses forgot about the gay rumors, R133. Those who were around in the 80s and early 90s still remember them.
- "Whitney found sex with lots of woman. She saved whatever emotion she had left for drink & drugs and trying to be married to Brown."
I wish there was more confirmation about this from someone other than Tina Brown. The way she described those experiences it seems as if they were fucked up. Btw, I heard a rumor that died quickly that some musician connected to Whitney claimed she was sleeping with an actress half her age at the time of her death. That one seemed to die pretty fast so I don't give it much credence. Probably as realistic as her actually sleeping with Ray J.
- R135, are you new to the Datalounge?
- Uh, no I am not r138. Not everyone who has been around here has to become a nasty c&nt to feel like they fit in. Only vile idiots think they are clever by smirking at another persons downfall. I guess you like conformity.
- R139, this is not always about YOU. If you've been around the DL, you must have seen the negative comments here about Whitney and others with the same problem. Are you unable to see and separate that?
- I googled it, and apparently Lisa Hintelmann (Robyn's wife) was already Whitney's publicist back in 1993 at the very least. I didn't know that. Now I'm wondering when their relationship began? Was that the reason(or one of the reasons) Robyn left?
- Longtime Houston Friend Has "Gone Into Hiding" Following Media Pressure to Discuss the Diva's Death
- What did Pat Houston mean when she said a young man hurt Whitney? How was she hurt?
- Pat Houston said she was afraid a young man (Ray J, I imagine) would hurt Whitney - not that he had already Whitney, but that he might hurt her in the future.
- I can't believe Pat really thinks Whitney was chasing behind RayJ.
- Okay, let's say that Whitney had come out of the closet. Let's say that she had been denounced and ostracized by the black community and turned away by the Black Church. Where could she have gone? Would she have completely been accepted by the gay community? Would she have been comfortable in the gay community? Would she have been obligated or required to become the black poster girl for the gay community? Would she have experienced racism from those in the gay community?
Would her life have been her own had she come out of the closet? Would she have been required to "make a statement" by giving her sexuality prominence over race, gender, or other pertinent social issues? Would she still have had to contend with expectations from the gay community? Would she have been excused, forgiven, or denounced and ostracized had she ever decided to oppose an issue integral to the gay community?
I believe that though out of the closet, she would have felt just as pressured to be what those in the gay community envisioned as those in the black community, the Black Church, friends, family, Clice Davis, and fans envisioned.
Whitney, wasn't one hundred percent straight. She wasn't one hundred percent gay either. It wouldn't have been easy either in or out of the closet. Would she have been happier had she not chose to give up the true love of her life? Would she have been any healthier in mind and body? She smoked (crackpipe not withstanding) like a chimney. Would she STILL have married just so she could have children?
Who's to say that Whitney hadn't thought of any of these things when she may have been on the verge of coming out a time or two and thought better of that decision? Who's to say that when alone, she thought about how much happier and healthier she could have been in accepting her duel sexuality? Who's to say that when she thought about the love she gave up that she crumbled even more?
Would Whitney have ultimately felt absolutely free or just as trapped as in the closet?
- I rewatched the infamous 2002 interview she did with Diane Sawyer, and in it Whitney said she and Robyn stopped being "friends" in 2000 because Robyn didn't like Bobby and told Whitney that Bobby was trying to control her. Whitney said that she told Robyn something along the lines of if you have a problem with my husband, then you have a problem with me and the two went their separate ways.
By the way Whitney talked about it in the interview, I got the impression that Whitney had been "done" with Robyn for quite some time before their fight since she seemed so "whatever" about the whole thing.
- [quote]Would Whitney have ultimately felt absolutely free or just as trapped as in the closet?
Well, let's put it this way: If she spent her life in the closet and at least half of her life on drugs and ended up dead at 48, she obviously wouldn't of had much to lose if she had come out and stopped with all the lies. At least when you're living the truth, there isn't the weight of the world on your shoulders.
- Er have you seen pics of Robyn's wife, R141? Who would leave Whitney Houston for that?
- Was Whitney beautiful without her wigs?
- Out of the loop here. What is The NE?
- R149 I know a lot of us would like to not appear shallow, but I would have to agree that Whitney looked better. But, sometimes we can become drawn to someone from the beauty found in the aura of a person. I'm sure we've all had an experience or two where we became attracted to a person who wasn't really our 'type' and couldn't find the exact reason why. It happens.
- Nvr mind. Figured it out. National Enquirer
- "By the way Whitney talked about it in the interview, I got the impression that Whitney had been "done" with Robyn for quite some time before their fight since she seemed so "whatever" about the whole thing."
Then we saw different interviews. In the Diane Sawyer interview I saw, Diane could tell there was still something (whatever that was) lingering between her and Robyn and that is why Diane sat silent for a few moments and then Whitney says to Robyn through the camera, "And I Love ya!" That doesn't sound like they were completely on the outs.
- "Was Whitney beautiful without her wigs?"
When she was young she was. I had always heard her hair was super short but I wonder how short. In the 80s she wore more weaves which looked better imo. I have always wondered if this was a weave or her real hair in this 80s video. I think she looked best with this hair.
Also to r146's post, honestly, if Whitney were 100% gay and decided to come out, I think it would have been best to go the Jodie Foster route and just be quietly out and not be a poster child for the gay community. Honestly, when couples become "professional gay couples" I would think it puts way too much pressure on their relationship. Who would want that pressure to be a poster child when you already have the pressure to please the general public with your music.
- r152, who says Robyn had left Whitney for this woman? I thought it was more like Robyn felt pushed out of Whitney's life and this was a rebound, a rebound that has lasted but a rebound still.
- R156 True.
But as long as she's happy.
- Let it go! She had sex with men. She loved Ray-J and even if she did date woman in the past. That is not who she was when she died. She may have been bi at very most. Let it go already. The lady is dead and none of you bitches have receipts !
- I have a receipt right here that says "Whitney loved the lady love and no one let her be free and Bobby just furthered the addction, plus tax, thank you for shopping with us."
- Ray J was more like her drug dealer than a bf, but alright.
- R154 Oh, please! Whitney was being a smart ass throughout that whole interview and when she said "And I love ya!", she said it in a smart ass way.
I don't doubt that they were once lovers, but whatever they had was obviously a ship that sailed and was over and done with. Whitney seemed like she couldn't have cared less about Robyn by that time in her life by the way she spoke of her, and if they hadn't spoken in two years, Whitney probably was over her. Anyone who watched that interview could tell that by 2002, Whitney's world revolved around Bobby. She didn't seem to care about anything else by that point.
- I cringe everytime I think about that disaster of an interview. Everything Robyn tried to tell Whitney was validated. In the 2009 interview with Oprah Winfrey, Whitney admitted how she tried to dim her light, tried to take a back seat, to be supportive to her husband. Robyn attempted time and time again to relay those messages to Whitney. Time and time again, Whitney had a point to prove. Time and time again, Robyn had utlimately been proven right.
Whitney was high in that 2002 interview. Once again, she had a point to prove that she was so over Robyn Crawford. She was soooooooo over Robyn Crawford that she appeared for all the world to see a horrid, emaciated mess in 2001 a year after Robyn left her employ. If Dianne Sawyer had had the guts, she would have confronted Whitney on her bogus, blase attitude about Robyn's departure. She would have asked Whitney about the stark contrast of her life before her marriage with Robyn and after her marriage with Bobby. She should have forced Whitney to account for that difference.
Yep, it would have been a hot mess. Yet, either the confrontation of combative questioning would either have sent Whitney into a fit or rage (imagine Dianne Sawyer getting a beat down), a total mental and emotional collaspe, a gift to FINALLY admit what many of us suspected and many denied that she was bi-sexual. Perhaps this could have given her the courage to leave that disaster of a marriage five years ahead of time.
- or she didn't care about anything at that point
- I thought that Diane Sawyer interview was very exploitative.
- [quote]I thought that Diane Sawyer interview was very exploitative.
Please - Whitney was pushing 40 when she did that interview. She was the one who agreed to it. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten fucked up before doing it if she didn't want to look trashy and ridiculous. And I say this as a fan.
- [quote]If Dianne Sawyer had had the guts, she would have confronted Whitney on her bogus, blase attitude about Robyn's departure.
Unfortunately, that pig Bobby was off to the side of the room watching everything which would have kept her from revealing anything anyway - remember the part where Diane asked her if Bobby was ever jealous of her and Whitney said yes at first, and then Bobby had to jump in to deny it and then Whitney changed her answer? It was obvious that pig had a lot of control over her.
- Yes but she wasn't really there because she was in an addicted state and probably depressed, too.
- [quote]I thought that Diane Sawyer interview was very exploitative.
I thought it was a bit of an intervention. She was really pressing Whitney about her drug use and not letting her off the hook. She brought up that horrible photo of Whitney and didn't back down.
Perhaps I would have felt differently if I had seen the interview before Whitney died, but watching it after the fact left me feeling like Diane was trying to help.
- Ugh! She was not trying to help! She was trying to make more money for herself by having a sensationalist "gotcha" interview. Her whole career has been that way. She is very insincere, puts on a fake voice to trap unsuspecting people. She's cruel.
- R150, R155, she had medium short, braided hair under her wigs. I saw a picture of her without a wig in the early 90s, but I can't remember where at the moment. She was pretty, but looked quite different to what she looked like in public.
- Whitney's real hair:
- R149, I just googled the woman, and she looks perfectly fine for someone who's probably pushing 50 or there already. Anyway, it's not all about looks. Whitney's life was a mess, and it's plausible Robyn started a relationship with someone else, someone more normal. Not saying here Robyn was a victim of Whitney's mess, sounds like she was kind of a mess herself, and it's quite possible her relationship with Whitney was fucked up in some way).
- R172 And not only that, but why should Robyn have to spend her life hiding in the background just because Whitney was too worried about what everyone else thought of her? I'm sure it was a relief to finally find someone who wasn't in denial even if they weren't as attractive. Looks aren't everything.
- Good point, R173.
Anyway, found it, this is what she looked like beneath her wigs (in her youth, at least:
- R172 Exactly the point I was trying to make with my comment R152.
R170 It's amazing how much make-up can alter or enhance one's appearance; whether for better or for worse. It's deceptive actually. You wind up waking up to someone's face the next morning that looks completely different.
- R174 Well, she definitely had some length. With some softness and waviness it appears.
Isn't her father mixed? At least, he looks like it to me.
- Yeah, R176, it's longer than I remembered. I saw the picture a while ago, soon after her death.
- Had anyone ever asked or confronted Whitney about her 360 degree turn from diva to disater? She hollered from the roof tops that she was straight. Yet, the evidence said otherwise. "Okay, Ms. Houston are you saying that your unhealthy appearance in 2001 didn't have anything to do with the departure of Robyn Crawford from your employ in 2000? Why is there such a contrasting difference between your career with Robyn Crawford and the decline of your career with your husband, Bobby Brown? Well, Ms. Houston, you must understand that many of your fans believe there is still something deep and abiding between you and Robyn Crawford. Could you explain to us why you were the consumate professional, in exquisite voice, one class act only to later cancel concerts, appear erratic, stoned, and in poor voice? Ms. Houston, again were and are you still in love with Robyn Crawford? Have you ever struggled with your sexuity? Could Robyn Crawford be considered the love of you life?
- But, R178, we don't know what the cause and what the effect was here. It's quite possible Whitney's self-destruction had nothing to do with Robyn, and Robyn left because of that self-destruction.
- Robyn's present self reminds me of Meshell Ndegeocello. No clue why. The shaved head might play a part.
- This story sort of reminds me of Boy George who was so in love during the height of Culture Club fame with his closeted drummer,Jon Moss,only to lose interest in the group after they broke up.
- To R176: John Houston's mom was Swedish.
- From what I understand [R179] it was the on going decline in Whitney that became the final straw for Robyn. I'm under no illusions that life between Robyn and Whitney was moonlight and roses. Robyn was probably tough. She. Was protective and perhaps over protective. She reufused to take any BS off of Whitney. She handled Whitney when that "Ms. Houston, Diva Personae" reared her stunning beautiful head. Whitney believed that all would be well without Robyn. Well, we have a photo of a gorgeous woman reduced to a bag of bones that states otherwise.
Whitney's sister-in-law, Patricia Houston stated that Whitney spent the last part of her life chasing a dream. I disagree, Whitney spent the remainder of her life spent in vain trying to recapture the love she had and willing, foolishly lost when she decided to be straight when she knew deep within her heart that though she was attracted to men, a woman was the true love of her life.
- R20 I didn't really get that from Whitney. Maybe tomboyish, yes. Her mentality didn't come off as being like that of a butch's. I'm not even sure if I would coin Robyn as a butch.
- I don't know, R183. I'm sure losing Robyn hurt either way, but I think it's quite likely their romantic/sexual relationship was over (long?) before Robyn left. I'm not sure that Whitney's self-destruction was over Robyn, or even over her sexuality. I mean, I'm sure it didn't help, but I'm not sure that was the main reason for it.
- [quote]Whitney's sister-in-law, Patricia Houston stated that Whitney spent the last part of her life chasing a dream.
I would take anything Pat says with a grain of salt. There's something very fishy about her that I can't put my finger on. She just seems very phoney and it was bizarre how she kept trying to act like everything was just hunky dory.
- R184, Robyn was definitely butch. What seems not butch about her?
- Maybe "chasing a dream" could have been a code phrase. You know alluding to something without actually stating it.
Idk Just throwing ideas out there.
- oops, that should've said "is butch"
- R187 I guess because I've seen stronger female personalities so-to-speak. I might need to see more footage of her to really judge.
- I think people are over-analyzing it, R188. IMO, Pat just wanted to say something deep on TV.
- I'm not sure what you mean by "stronger personality", R190. You don't have to be butch to have a strong personality.
But, anyway, as to Robyn... she's a pantsuit-and-hushpuppies wearing, basketball-playing dyke with a shaved head. I don't see how she can be labeled anything but butch. I mean, if we're labeling.
- R186 It seems like whenever someone has dived into deep issues, drugs, and turmoil, people affiliate with that individual always make hackneyed replies like "She was in search of herself" or "He was a restless spirit." Blah blah blah.
Simply vague, overused statements that don't fully address the issue.
A simple "I don't know why he/she fell to such a demise" would suffice instead of putting on the pretense of having the 411.
I think Pat caught a case of that.
- Meant affiliated
- R181 Speaking of George, here's an interview with the both of them from the early 90's:
- R192 Nah. Labeling's not really my thing, which is more-than-likely why I'm having a hard time choosing the proper definition. To be perfectly honest, stronger personality wasn't even the description I was looking for.
- I love r183 's post, but I agree with r193.
I'm sure Robyn was deeply connected to W 'till the day she died, however, the relationsip was long over and I'm sure there were illusions on either side.
- Yes R197, it was long over between Robyn and Whitney on the conscience, day to day level. However, you are so very right that they remained deeply connected until the day Whitney died.
Perhaps this sounds crazy, but I believe that Whitney is finally coming out at last. It may be from the realm of eternity, but coming out non the less. Perhaps she saying if only someone had held her feet to the fire and refused to relent until she had no other choice but to be honest with herself.
I believe that had she come out during her lifetime, she still would have left us devastated by her loss at 48. Yet, perhaps she would have been far more content and comfortable in her own skin. Perhaps in terms of love, she would have been able to finally settle down to a man or woman, independently wealthy, and most importantly, healthy and secure in themselves to enjoy the love of her maturity.
- Whitney wove a web she could never get free of -- career, personally, drugs -- everything. No one could save her and Robyn could only stand there helplessly and watch.
- Until her death I never thought of Whitney as a deeply unhappy person. Reading all of this makes me think she was pretty miserable.
- r200, were you not aware of her horrendous drug problem? Anyone with a drug problem as bad as hers has to be tremendously miserable. That is why I can't imagine she was truly happy with Bobby Brown even if she wanted him to be the love of her life. I know about addiction as I have a brother who is an addict. Happy people don't become addicts. Some people can experiment with drugs when they are young but they don't turn into addicts. It does sound like Whitney had a history of addiction in her family but so do other people who don't turn into addicts themselves.
I know that I drank too much (mostly on weekends) in my 20s and I was not a happy person yet, I never became an addict and just grew out of it and now I rarely drink. I was never into drugs but had friends who were and some had a drug problem but they eventually grew out of that phase and many of them are very well adjusted people now. I think the ones who go off the deep end are emotionally damaged somehow. That is why I wonder and I am completely speculating if Whitney's drug use before Bobby Brown could have been a habit that she might have outgrown. Unfortunately, she hooked up with another druggie and then drifted away from Robyn (who may have been controlling but was probably a stable influence) and just went off the deep end. I think who a person hooks up with can sometimes make a difference. Look at Julia Roberts. She was getting fucked up on heroine when she was with Kieffer Sutherland yet luckily she got away from him in time and is now a seemingly healthy well adjusted person whereas Sutherland is still a mess. Getting away from him was the best thing for her. Too bad Whitney didn't get away from Bobby Brown in time. I still fully believe that without BB in her life she might not have become a drug addict.
I don't care one the straight trolls say, Whitney's life noticeably spiraled out of control once Robyn left the scene. She chose BB and her life became much much worse for it.
- I agree, R201.
- "she's a pantsuit-and-hushpuppies wearing, basketball-playing dyke with a shaved head. I don't see how she can be labeled anything but butch"
- Yes, 201, are you spot on. What I can't understand about the ones who refuse to see what is before them if she said it, then it must be so. For me the evidence, "that smoking gun" is that Michael Jackson performance with an unhealthy, alarmingly underweight and malnourished Whitney Houston who troubled us with her emaciated appearance. She looked like death and she sounded even worse. Robyn finally left Whitney in 2000. That horror of an appearance and performance took place in 2001. So, your girl was so happy. She was so in her element. She's so happily married. She's so comfortable with her sexuality. Robyn was just a distant memory. Then if everything was right, tight, and out of sight why did she look so bad, so unhealthy, malnourished, so untogether, so troubling, so unprofessional? Why wasn't she the vocal sensation we know her to be? Why can't you either see or at the very least acknowledge that OBVIOUS and striking difference between the together Whitney with Robyn and the "hot mess" Whitney with Bobby Brown?
- I can easily imagine Whit wearing a fuck off massive strap on - i bet she liked fucking her g/f up the asshole; I've been told black gay women like it this way; not that I would know not having ever dated a black woman. Can anyone confirm...?
- R201, Whitney was also getting high with her 'big sister' chaka khan and other showbiz friends, not just bobby brown.
- Apparently with Robyn too, way before that, R206 (Robyn practically admits to it in her Esquire piece, btw). Whitney was on drugs her entire adult life. Don't know when Robyn stopped using, but maybe that was the beginning of the end?
- I blame the parents!
- R205 I can confirm that you're disgusting.
- R209 Cosign. Anything anal pretty much grosses me out.
- Good points 201 and 204.
R206 That is true and known, but I think what was trying to be said is that Whitney's drug splurges with Chaka Khan and other celeb friends was exacerbated and possibly influenced by Whitney's unhappiness with her marriage. But, at the end of the day, Whitney was into drugs before Bobby. So the finger can't be easily pointed at one person or circumstance.
R208 Speaking of her parents, I heard that Whitney's upbringing was somewhat chaotic. Is that true?
- Chaka khan flying high! Etta also had major drug issues as well.
- Oh yes. I remember that video. Chaka definitely had her own bouts with drugs.
If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't until about three years ago, that she finally became sober.
- Was Whitney really close with her gospel friends like CeCe Winans and Kim Burrell?
- R214, I really don't know that much about Kim Burrell, except that they were friend, but lots of people doubted Kim's motives. As for CeCe, Whitney was very close with the Winans family (including the sisters with that homophobic song, can't remember their names), but especially CeCe (she's BK's godmother). IIRC, they drifted apart in the last decade or so, but I could be wrong.
- What were Kim Burrell's motives?
- Kim Burrell and CeCe Winans were bridemaids in Whitney Houston's wedding to Bobby Brown.
I'd say they she must have been close to Whitney certainly during the 90's when she dated and married Brown since they were in her wedding.
There's a photo online showing the bridal party. music artist Pebbles was also a bridesmaid. I forget where I saw the picture.
- Grammar correction:
Kim Burrell and CeCe Winans were bridemaids in Whitney Houston's wedding to Bobby Brown.
I'd say they must have been close to Whitney certainly during the 90's when she dated and married Brown since they were both in her wedding.
There are photos online showing the bridal party. Singer Pebbles was also a bridesmaid. I forget where I saw the picture.
- Chaka is missing a tooth in that video.
- Because of her insulated star life, Whitney was probably in arrested development . I'm sure that contributed greatly to her unhappiness. Her lack of education, the feeling of being trapped...the only way out was to go inward.
- Sorry, I hit save post too soon. Whitney probably had NO friends except those that wanted to get wasted with her. It becomes you're life -- you're not interested in much else.
- Chaka has been clean since 2005.
Before that, she had about four years of sobriety before her brief relapse.
This time hopefully has done the trick. She has lost weight, and looks the best I've seen her look in a long time.
- Well, the usual, R217. Attention, money, etc. She talked to the press about stuff like how hysterical BK was after Whitney's death, so that didn't sit well with a lot of people.
The wedding photos:
- So when Whitney was telling oprah about sprinkling coke on weed, does that only work with crack? Or can you do that with regular cocaine too?
- Oops, posted the link in the wrong place.
- Thank you for pointing that out, R219. I went back and watched the video again. Oh, lord.
- Is that Robyn - one of the bridesmaids?
- Robyn is the maid of honor, R227. And, no, she's not that tall, she and the best man are standing on an apple box.
- This is an impromptu prayer on TBN that Cece Winans and Pebbles (who is now going by her real name Perri Reid) did for Whitney. I believe this was from around 2005 judging from the audience's reaction, Whitney must have been in the headlines for something. From 2006-2008 she kind of fell off the face of the earth, kind of like Michael Jackson.
I after watching this a couple of years ago, I thought Whitney was really beyond the point of no return, if Cece felt the need to pray for her on national TV. But she did have another comeback.
Wasnt Pebbles a crook? I heard she took a lot of money from Laface artists.
- Whitney sounds surprisingly good here (from 2009).
- Does anyone know if Bobby ever called her Nip/Nippy?
- I recall him calling her Nippy on the reality show. He was screaming at her. She was at a bar with Cherrelle.
- Chaka Khan looks cute and adorable.
- Thanks, R232. Just trying to gauge how close they were.
- I wonder how Whitney felt about CeCe and Pebbles praying for her on tv.
- [quote]Whitney probably had NO friends except those that wanted to get wasted with her.
I remember Whitney saying in an interview in the late 90's that she said she knew she didn't have any friends and she said it very matter-of-factly.
- Robyn was the only one, the only true friend.
- Hmmm, isn't it weird then that she said she had no friends at all, R237?
- Actually, it's very common in show biz, Whitney was at least aware of it. Celebs don't hang out; the're lives are so different from regular people.
There was a recent thread about Liza Minnelli and her hopeless life. She has no or few friends, although she may not know it. All her 'friends' are the celebrities she name-drops. Her best friend us a bottle.
- No, I mean, what about Robyn? Did she just forget about her, or?
- [quote]RIP in Whitney, you are a legend
Unfortunately I am dead, and so will never read nor respond to your comment.
- Whitney was a liar, R236. What happened between Chaka and Etta at the 3:00 mark in that video that I posted?
- R220 That's another perspective. I can see that being a possibility.
- I don't think Michael Jackson had any friends, either.
- Pat Houston didn't seem to think Whitney was lonely.
- These other singers were not friends, r242.
- I'd be very surprised if he did, R244.
I remember an interview of Whitney's in the Bodyguard era, where she said that she wasn't planning on befriending anyone else since she couldn't know what people's intentions were, but that she was content with the friends she had.
Obviously something changed in those few years. Or she just liked to talk a lot of crap.
- Well, I don't think anyone is going to say in an interview "I don't have any friends."
- R245, Pat Houston did not say that Whitney was 'not lonely'.
Instead, Pat Houston said that Whitney was always a loner.
That was Pat's way of sidestepping the lonely question.
- Well, R248, Whitney obviously did say it in the late 90s, according to R236.
And, again, how come she would say something like that before Robyn left? Were things bad between them in the late 90s already, or was she just high or something?
- A person can be a loner without being lonely. I don't know why Pat just didn't answer the question. I think Whitney was lonely and isolated.
- It's because being lonely has a stigma., R251.
- Whitney was not lonely, a loner yes.
- Hell, I'm a loner. Sometimes, people can be a drain and fickle.
- I have a inside source, and I'm very saddened to report that Robyn and Whitney were indeed very much in love...and yes,the loss of Robyn is what led to the downward spiral. Robyn will never tell their story because she truly loved Whitney and isn't a money-grubbing, self-seeking woman. She said enough in Esquire. Loving. Respectful. Loyal. Just try to remember Whitney when she was at the top of her game and be happy for her that she was loved and felt loved at that time. Remember the hoop/cross earring Whitney always wore pre-BB? Guess who wore the same one? Did you ever notice in the I'm Your Baby Tonight video- you can see Robyn (but not her face) put her gloved hand on Whitney's hand. It was real, it is true my friends. Whitney was in love with Robyn. You fall in love with the PERSON.
- R255 Can you confirm whether or not, Whitney and Bobby's relationship was just as real?
- I wondered why she only wore one of the hoop/cross earrings. She never seemed to wear both. How do you know all of this Alexis? How long were they together?
- [quote]the hoop/cross earring
The hoop/cross is a very well known symbol for lesbianism.
lesbian who wore one in the 70s-80s
- Robyn with the earring at 3:37.
She wore hers in clips from 1995 too, but I don't think Whitney ever appeared with hers again after the wedding.
- Hoop-cross...are the hoop and cross one earring or do you mean wearing a cross earring in one ear and a hoop in the other?
- Whitney either couldn't or wouldn't listen to reason from the ones who genuinely cared about her and in particular, Robyn.
Usually, celebrities just like politicians or anyone else don't want to be told the truth. They don't want to face the reality that their lives are grand messes. Elvis Presley was the same way.
Those who genuine loved Whitney (outside of her family) simply refused to remain and witness their beloved and loved friend continue to ruin her life. The ones who refused to give in to her and assist her in her downward spiral left. Those who hung around Whitney after every last drop of stability was drained from those who truly cared, catered to Ms. Houston's every whim.
Of course, Whitney rewarded those who truly didn't give one damn about her. She also pushed those aside who tried again and again to reach her, to plead with her to leave her marriage and to become clean and sober before it was too late.
- 3:44-3:46 That was a cute moment.
- Watch that bit of the video I posted, R260. Or Whitney's "I'm Your Baby Tonight" video. It's a cross hanging from a hoop, it's all one earring, in one ear.
- R259 That's the Ankh symbol. Interesting.
Never knew it was also used to refer to lesbianism.
- Something I just found while browsing the net:
Bueno_bttm 1 month ago
A friend of mine worked with the caterer for the Houston/Brown nuptials. He said it was well know among the staff and guest that Whitney was gay and the marriage was to "help" her career
- R264, it's not the Ankh, it's the female symbol:
- R259 I'm aware of that. But, it's also the shape of the Ankh- the circle and cross combined.
That's actually cool that the earring has that dual representation.
- 259, Whitney has the earring on in the video too around the 2:40 mark. I never knew it was a lesbian symbol. I thought Whitney wore a cross earring because of her church upbringing.
- R268 So that must mean her and Robyn had formed some sort of understanding. That interview is around the beginning of her and Bobby's marriage, and yet she's still wearing the earring.
- I agree 269. That must be why Robyn still wore the earring. Why would Whitney wear such a known lesbian symbol?
- Did Whitney Houston wear earrings?
- Yes, 271. She wears earrings including the earring that matches Robyn's.
- OMG, I can't believe Whitney would pierce her ears!
- R273, Are Christians not allowed to do that?
- Did people pressure Whitney to stop wearing the earring? She must have felt really bold around 1990-1991.
- R251 and R261 NAILED IT.
It's important to note how young Whitney was when all of this started. 20-something is sooo young. With all of her issues and the personal stuff that had to be put on the back burner during this time, she became more and more isolated. And scared and defensive.
- It's too bad that Whitney couldn't have just remained kind of coy, the way Queen Latifah has, or even Dolly Parton or Linda Ronstadt. All 3 have been rumored to be gay. I think with Latifah it's an open secret at this point.
Whitney seemed to way overcompensate in a way that seems sad in retrospect. She could have really broken down some walls as a trailblazer if she hadn't retreated so much and ultimately self-destructed.
I'm amazed how butch she seems in the part of the I Will Always Love You video when the key changes (aka The Note): dressed in pants and blazer with legs spread apart.
- I believe that Whitney's fears of coming out in the 80's and 90's were valid. Ocstrization from the Black Community and particularly, the Black Church would have been devastating to her. Even in terms of coming out in 90's and 2000's, the possible loss of custody of her daughter sent her further into the closet. She probably wondered whether or not she would have been completely accepted by the gay community or would she have been expected to "represent" the gay community. She possibly wondered would she experience racism just as much in the gay community as in the main stream.
Yes, she lied to us and many of us who knew better straight and gay let it pass. She lied to us. Yet, more importantly, she lied to herself. She thought that she could handle the drugs on her own and she failed. She thought that she could handle life without Robyn and she failed. She thought that she could have the samething with BB that she had with Roby, she failed big time on that one. She thought that she could handle, to deny, her attraction to women and she failed.
No matter the ways she would have observed her options, she felt trapped by every last one of them.
- There still aren't any out black superstars
- R268 and R269, that part of the video where Whitney is wearing the earring is a clip from an older interview, she wore it (constantly) in the '90-'91 period, and then she just stopped when she got engaged. I suspect it was all a part of the next step in her career - ie. bearding up.
As for whether they had an understanding...well, in all the 92/93 footage and photos she appears in, Robyn doesn't really give the impression of a jilted lover. She's laughing and smiling in all of them and interacting with Whitney easily, wedding pictures included. So, like I already wrote somewhere on the thread, I think either their relationship didn't end with Whitney's marriage, or it ended before her marriage (but not because of any bearding concerns or self-hate reasons) and became a friendship.
- Sad, but true, R279. Queen Latifah is an interesting case. I'm not sure whether coming out of the closet would hurt her career. I mean, is there anyone in the black community (or otherwise) who doesn't know she's a lesbian? Surely whatever damage that knowledge was going to do to her career has already been done, and she could afford to be open about it now? Or maybe I'm wrong.
- I am sure the masses still don't know, R281 - and a lot of them go to her corny movies.
Whitney had a different image than Latifah - Queen L is loveable and ordinary, but Whitney was more sexy and a sort of princess - so there'd be more pressure for her not to come out.
- I definitely agree about Whitney. Her career, music genre, and image definitely didn't allow for her to go the Queen Latifah route as someone suggested she should've. She had to beard up.
But as for Queen Latifah herself, do the masses really not know? Are they really so blind? I was definitely under the impression it was well-known, just sort of a taboo subject.
- The masses really are blind.
- Re: Queen Latifah
Joan Rivers doesn't know; last I saw them together, Joan was pushing Dana to find herself a man.
It was only a couple of years ago that some of the boys here thought QL was only a *strong black woman*, "not a dyke." (Love how 'faggots' use the word dyke and don't get banned).
- "Whitney had a different image than Latifah - Queen L is loveable and ordinary, but Whitney was more sexy and a sort of princess - so there'd be more pressure for her not to come out."
Absolutely! I have said before that I think many people are tolerant of out gay women who are not seen as sex symbols and Whitney was a sex symbol in addition to being a pop star. People still can't seem to wrap their heads around a beautiful/sexy woman possibly being gay. They think she must really prefer a man. I think that is why bi women like Angelina Jolie are seen as no big deal because she has only been seen with men (although I think many full-blown lesbians wouldn't turn down Brad Pitt). I guess Whitney didn't even want to admit to being bisexual.
So many men, black and white, wanted Whitney when she was in her prime. I was traveling through Europe when she first hit it big and I remember meeting an Italian guy who was obsessed with her. I hadn't heard the rumors about her but, I wish I had as I would have loved to have seen his reaction to the object of his obsession possibly being a lesbian.
- Robert DeNiro was writing her Whitney love notes too.
I wonder how old timer Lena Horne managed to stay single since her 40s with no questions asked. She was still beautiful, unattached and not looking. In other words, in the closet.
- R286, Whitney's heyday was before being bisexual became chic for female stars. It was still a big deal back then. And also, she couldn't come out as a bisexual, because, whatever her sexuality was, she was in a long-term relationship with a woman. As you said, bisexual women are okay as long as they don't actually exhibit any open non-straightness.
So, in Whitney's case, coming out as a bisexual (whether she was or wasn't) would've had the same effect as coming out as a lesbian, due to her relationship status.
- R277, people always say she looked kinda butch in the "I Will Always Love You" video, but I never got that impression. Would you say the way she was sitting in this interview was butch? (fast forward to about 0:50, or to 4:15)
- I watched it. Hmmmm....
Funny how Whitney talks about her husband over and over like she's trying to convince herself.
Also funny, it appears that Whitney never taught Bobby what women want in bed -- he thinks (according to a recent quote) he's good because he's well endowed.
- lol, on the subject of Bobby...
Bobby Brown and His Gay Outrage:
- I don't know how Whitney could've stayed closeted but marrying Bobby wasn't the answer.
- I had a conversation with a friend of mine about Whitney. She confirmed through a close friend of hers, Whitney's sexuality. Now of of course she wanted to swim in denial. I wouldn't let her.
She paid a heavy and detrimental price for refusing to be honest with herself. She knew her career would have nose dived in the 80's and 90's. She wasn't particularly ready to become a traiblazer. She figured that in the closet, she's trapped. Outside of the closet, she's trapped.
We place far too many expectations on yes, phenominally talented, but flawed people. We place our hopes and dreams upon people who can barely handle the issues of their own day to day lives.
Perhaps there were times when she had those "if only moments". Perhaps there were times when she could have imagined herself out, content, and free, comfortable in her own skin. Then she would imagine her life without her daughter, Bobbi Kristina and she knew she could never come out of the closet.
Whitney was a force of nature. Yet, she was fragile, exquisite vase that shattered into a million pieces. Ultimately, there was a time when she tasted love, and she tasted it well.
- R293, about her being a trailblazer... There was someone on one of the sites where this was discussed, who claimed that in about 1990, Whitney was getting bolder, and pushing to come out, or at least live in a glass closet and not deny anything. But in the end the label won out, and the whole Bobby thing was set up.
I'm not sure whether I believe that, because that would've been kind of a crazy move for a celebrity with her kind of image in the early 90s, but it's an interesting theory.
- [quote]Robert DeNiro was writing her Whitney love notes too.
Why is Robert so obsessed with black women?
- R289 Her mode of dress is rather soft butch, but the manner in which she is sitting is full on butch, and Whitney Houston is just naturally being that way.
- R296, someone at Lipstick Alley said that in the early 80s Whitney and Robyn shopped together at men's clothing stores, and Whitney most often wore men's clothing outside of singing performances. Supposedly that only stopped when Clive started preparing her for her big break. The photos I've seen of her from that period seem to confirm that.
- I like how Whitney looks here - she is in a jacket (and tie!), and looks attractive and relaxed.
- r293, how does your friend's close friend know Whitney?
- [quote]who claimed that in about 1990, Whitney was getting bolder
I'd say the video for I'm Your Baby Tonight confirms that.
- I agree, R300. That is what I thought of when I read that post.
- I also thought of the I'm Your Baby Tonight video. Poor Whitney.
- R279 Sucks doesn't it? There's plenty that are suspect & it's rather obvious, but they don't speak up.
And anyone that can't tell that Latifah's gay is in denial. I think she's a pretty woman btw.
- Seems like East Orange, NJ is a breeding ground for famous lesbians.
- Bobby Brown is a miserable loser. I don't know why Whitney thought he would make a good husband.
- I think Whitney (and/or Clive) thought he would make a good prop to dispel the gay rumors. I also believe, sadly, that she liked the idea of being with her drug buddy. I've known toxic couples like that, where the only person who 'really understands' is a fellow addict, so they hold hands in the downward spiral.
I'm actually surprised they didn't find some unknown guy who could stay out of the spotlight. Like Dolly's husband, whom nobody has ever seen.
- I guess Whitney needed a more prominent husband like Bobby to give the semblance of an actual relationship. More exposure together = more credibility.
- Yes, r307, that's the obvious reason. Plus people could say why would she marry a pig like that if it WASN'T real?
- Wow, I would have thought this thread would have doubled in posts since the toxicology results were reported yesterday evening.
Where is everybody?
I wonder if Whitney was using crack while Robyn was still on her team?
- Also, one of Bobby Brown's sisters was on Dr. Drew's show last night and she stated that she asked Whitney about Ray J. Brown stated that Whitney laughed and laughed and said to her that Ray J means nothing to her and that he was her "runner boy".
"Runner boy" is a person that secures drugs for a user.
Ray J can be taken off the list of Whitney's so-called "men". The straight fan gurls will obviously now insists that Leolah Brown just lying and made it all up.
I felt that Whitney was not romantically involved with Ray J and that he was one of her drug dealers, along with this Raffles van Excel person.
Leolah Brown is NOT Bobby Brown's sister that sold the pictures of Whitney and Bobby's drug infested bathroom to the tabloids.
- Strange, I was about to sign off from DataLounge because I didn't have anymore to say. I don't think Whitney was doing the crack thing until she married. It's common knowledge that she either had or was developing a problem with the powder stuff. Robyn probably grew up and realized that hard core partying along with the drug use had finally come to an end. I guess that she tried to get Whitney to realize that she didn't need the "stuff" to make it. Whitney had to fly (figuritively and literally). She had to keep it going or she'd crash. Then, though it ultimately devastated Whitney, Robyn had the good sense of self preservation. She got out before she became sucked into the vortex of possible drug addiction. A 48 year old woman probably had the heart of a 60 or 70 year old. She knew her odds of living (regardless of how much she knew shd to live for) to see her 50th decade were slim to none. I wonder if her family knew how advanced and extensive was her heart disease?
- [quote]She knew her odds of living (regardless of how much she knew shd to live for) to see her 50th decade were slim to none.
Wow, 50 decades?
- R312, I meant 5th decade.
- Whitney's family seemed to be in total denial.
- Her family was in denial, the church is in denial, the music industry is in denial, and the fans are in denial.
- I don't know how her family could've been around her so much and think she was clean. Maybe she was clean while filming Sparkle and fell off the wagon again.
- R309, Whitney's straight fans are not buying Leolah's version. The reason? Well, she couldn't have been spending so much time with him and not been sleeping with him. Hmmm. Funny how it doesn't work that way at all when they're talking about Robyn.
Anway, yeah, Leolah was pretty forceful on the matter of Whitney and Ray J not being a couple. I'm not sure whether Whitney actually told her that (as she said), or Leolah just knows about Whitney's sexuality and is putting two and two together.
And, as for the history of Whitney's drug use, I agree with R311.
- R316, I think they're just lying. She might've been clean while she was cleaning Sparkle, but they were with her every step of the way, they had to know she fell off the wagon.
- R317, that's so true!
The straight fans are so willing to believe because Ray J is a male, they must have been sleeping together, eventhough Whitney became a family friend to the Norwoods (Ray J's and Brandy's family name) when Ray J and Brandy were like 14/15 years old while Whitney was like in her 30's.
- And apparently not just the straight ones, R319. Check out the last few posts on the "Whitney dies of accidental drowning..." thread right here on DL, lol.
- R320, I've noticed that too.
- I still don't understand how anyone of a certain age could actually deny that there was something more than friendship going on betwee Whitney and Robyn. How much more evidence does anyone need to realize that Robyn Crawford meant the world to Whitney? No one from the Houston side wants to give Robyn any credit in succeeding in the monumental task of loving someone supremely talented, with whom she proudly and gladly shared with the world. No one from the Houston wants to give Robyn Crawford any appreciation in being the force that kept Whitney stable, grounded, protected, appreciated, comfortable in her own skin, and most importantly, LOVED!!!! No one denies that Robyn may haved had her issues, YYet, the consensus on this site is that with Robyn, Whitney soared because she was completely. The evidence that shows that in 2001, she was neither happy or even sober is that horrific picture of her a grand skeletal mess AFTER Robyn left Whitney in 2000. First true love never dies even after lovers have done their separate ways. Whitney tried so hard to recreate what she had with Robyn. But to even attempt such a feat, she had to give up that love. She then had to lie to us and then to herself. Sadly, for many reasons, she could never find the courage to stop living the lie.
- I think you're romanticizing the situation a bit, R322. You seem to jump to a lot of conclusions about the quality of Whitney's relationship with Robyn on the basis of the very little information that we have. IMO, we know far too little about their relationship to make any conclusions regarding how happy or unhappy Whitney really was before Robyn left.
Anyway, someone on another site posted this short clip (Whitney Houston re. Qualities in a Man). Is it just me or does her expression look kind of pained when she realizes it's a relationship status question. And she looks really uncomfortable and hesitant during the whole clip, fake laughter/smile and everything.
- Maybe she was with Robyn during the video 323.
- Somebody could post a vid here of Nippy eating Robyn's pussy and the het trolls would still be in denial.
- Is there a reason why Bobby Brown can't get himself together?
- Interesting interview with Pastor Shirley Caesar, who was close with Whitney and Cissy.
She said Whitney shouted in Kim Burrell's church in Texas and laid on the floor for thirty minutes speaking in tongues.
- (328) Watched this, and all I can say is that Whitney's passing is an enormous tragedy on so many levels. This is the worst, while I do not question Ms Caesar's love for Whitney I am truly nauseous that so many folks around her pedaled the ignorance of "prayin away the cocaine." Seems to be something perverse, the opportunity to relapse and get all tight with the Lord again.
I have known straight women in my life that have carted bibles much as Whitney did, praying away the gay and all else.
I PRAY that I wish she had whatever real interventions it would have required, elimination of triggers and enablers.
What is clear is that she knew the true cost of her vice, how she destroyed herself and the gift. Every day she suffered and that must have been devastating to her above all else. I think that is why she was approaching young female singers, to find grace in mentoring them.
Whitney, you were the best of all, forever and ever.
Did anyone go to Chelsea Cinemas tonight??
- For those who asked whether Robyn was at the funeral, apparently she was, here's a photo. You can zoom in, it's definitely her.
- It's sad that Whitney couldn't rid herself of the enablers.
- Thanks 330, you are correct that certainly does look like Robyn. I am glad she was there. I believe 5th row back family side as previously stated.
She will never kiss and tell. Never. The only one with integrity in Whit's world.anonymous
- Thanks R330 for posting this link!
- [quote]laid on the floor for thirty minutes speaking in tongues.
Definitely code for sapphic love-making
- Ebony Magazine did a tribute issue to Whitney. Cherrelle is in there quite a few times. She spoke highly of Bobby. I guess that means she and Whitney were just friends.
- R334 LMAO
- How many times did Whitney go to rehab? Was she high during the Oprah interview?
- R337, I believe Whitney was a sober as she could possibly be for the Oprah interview. At least she was FAR more sober than the disasterous interview with Diane Sawyer. I don't think we'll ever how many times Whitney entered rehab. I don't think we'll ever know how many times Whitney needed drug interventions.
If it is true that Robyn attended Whitney's funeral, then I am glad. Fifth row from the front pew isn't too bad. Maybe just maybe if folk hadn't been so eager to dip. Maybe just maybe, some family members and fans are taking a second look at what Whitney had and now regret their part in "the think about your career scenario". Still nearly twenty years later, Robyn continues to come out on top while Robert Baresford Brown continues to makes a mess.
I just wish that Whitney would have placed chains of love within her will. Required that Bobbi Kristina graduate from an accredited two or four year collge at 24 or 25 to receive the first installment of her inheritance. Bobbi Kristina would be older with something she earned on her own under her belt other than her she's the daughter of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown.
Well, until something else happens, chow.
- R329, these are not educated people. Prayin away the cocaine or prayin away whatever, is how they really think. It's not necessarily a conspiracy.
- Whitney told Oprah she prayed away the desire for drugs.
- As a Christian, I take issue with some of the comments about "uneducated people". My point is that God may very not take the gay away or the desire for drugs, or sex, or anything else that one would consider a vice or sinful. As a black woman, the Black Church has far more pressiong problems to deal with like a 72% illegitimacy rate rather than an internal struggle one woman wrestled with all of her adult life. God has always said that for those who have prayed for whatever problem to be taken away that, "My grace is sufficient." No one from the church or anywhere else for all I can see encouraged her to, "I pray for the strength and courage to be honest with MYSELF about my homosexual desire as well as my desire for drugs."
I had figured out years ago that the rumors about Whitney and Robyn were probably true. I was just as concerned and puzzled about her decision to marry Bobby Brown. I have as of yet keeled over from the realization the greatest star of my generation greatest may have been a woman. As someone on this site mentioned that there are waaaaaay too many either sightings or experiences for ALL of them to be bogus.
I know what the Bible says on many subjects. The Black Church needs to return to the business of stablizing the Black Family and the Black Community and not worry so much about gay this, that, and the other.
- I wonder if Robyn still knew Whitney abused drugs.
- Sure R342, Whitney did drugs during the entire time she was with Robyn. By some accounts Robyn used with her.
- R343, Whitney was 16 when she met Robyn. I highly doubt she was using drugs that far back.
Anyway, here's a repost of Whitney talking about how she 'likes honesty and truthfulness' and how important it is to 'be true to yourself' and 'you can fool people, but you can't fool yourself, so you've got to be straight up with you'. Clearly, she never was.
- R344, everyone from Newark/E.Orange who I've seen commenting online on Whitney's death has been pretty adamant about 2 things. 1. Whitney was a lesbian. 2. Whitney and Robyn were both using very early on.
Besides, Whitney's brothers were addicts when they were teenagers, so she was around drugs and possibly using, even before Robyn.
- And, yeah, that video is pretty funny with Robyn right there behind her. Makes you wonder if they edited it that way on purpose.
- r341, English is not your native language, is it.
- Which video r346?
- The video R344 posted, R348.
- R345, the reason I don't think she was using hardcore drugs when she was 16 is that her mom had her on a pretty tight leash back then. Could her brothers have introduced her to pot in the late 70's? Perhaps, but I doubt she had been introduced to heavier addictive drugs like coke at age 16 especially given the fact that she had not started making her big $ yet. I'm guessing she probably got into coke in the mid-80's when she was financially independent and was able to treat herself and Robyn to a much nicer lifestyle. When she got her own place with Robyn, Cissy had less control and that's probably when the serious partying started with coke.
- Also, anyone who still blames Bobby for her addictions should consider the fact that Whitney was a grown woman of considerable means when they met. He was barely 19 and she was in her mid-twenties and far worldlier that he. I'd guess that she was as much of a bad influence on him as he was on her. If you doubt she was using coke before Bobby, just watch the last video of her tour documentary when she was still with Robyn. Very obviously coked up.
- R346, Robyn looks totally gorgeous there but I'm a bit disconcerted about the way they're both licking their lips.
- She and Robyn moved in together as soon as Whitney was done with high school, R350. And there are just too many stories out of Newark of the two of them using (hard drugs, not pot) even back then for me personally to discount.
Her brothers were definitely not just into pot either, they were addicts (or at least Gary was, not 100% sure of the extent of Michael's drug problem at the time). But can't remember anymore what type of drugs exactly.
- R347, this is R341, yes, English is my native language. And yes, I've stated that I am a Christian. Yes, I've stated that I realized that the biggest star of my generation and within Black America loved a woman. Yes, I've also stated in previous posts that Black America of the 80's, 90's, and today wouldn't accept a openly gay superstar of Whitney Houston's caliber as an out of the closet lesbian. The Black Church wouldn't have accepted such an admission twenty-five years ago. The Black Church wouldn't accept such an admission today. I've stated in previous post that I've always thought that Robyn Crawford not only was the love of Whitney Houston's life, but she was also the influence that kept her grounded and stable until the gay rumors became so intense that she possibly made the worst decision of her life, that marriage to Bobby Brown. Yes, I stated that both the Black Church and Black America have far more serious issues to face such as a 72% illegitimacy rate, illiteracy, poverty, and crime that inflict Black America on a daily basis than at this point the issues of Gay America. Yes, there is an aspect of homophobia in Black America. So, one can only wonder why the most stunningly beautiful black superstar of our age decided to deny that at one point in her life, she loved a woman.
- Are you a lesbian, r354?
- I said it before and I'll say it again, her religious training/indoctrination by her MOTHER, is what ultimately killed her.
If she hadn't been taught that her own truth is a "sin" or an "abomination" and that she would go to hell because of it, she wouldn't have tried to run and hide from herself via drug use.
In other words, Cissy Killed the Radio Star.
- wow that must have been intentional editing, at :50 in the video.
- R355, this is R354. No, I'm not a lesbian.
- The straight women on this thread must secretly wish they could be lesbians.
- Crazy early Whitney interview below. Very sophisticated, elegant, and classy...
- Whitney was not gay; 'the only gayness she felt was when she was happy'.
- Thanks, r360. Wow, Whitney was a lot darker then. What did they do to her natural skin colour?! Poor kid, if only they'd allowed her to develop in her own way.
I don't know what the answer to your question is, r354. Who knows why Whitney made the decisions she did. Maybe she truly loved Bobby, although I doubt it. Maybe there was so much pressure on her. But, as we can see from the video at r360 she was certainly aware right from the start that there were a lot of traps in her chosen profession and her family were supposedly looking out for her. That didn't quite turn ut as it should have.
- This is a weird interview. She talks about getting back to her roots, with the people in the projects? In other interviews she goes on and on about how high-class her family was.
She mentions Robin at about 3:00 in.
- R356, are we to believe that Whitney was had no mind of her own? Not EVER?
- Wow - I forgot how beautiful she was when she was younger. Just gorgeous and graceful.
- What did Whitney in was criticism from black America that she wasn't black enough which hurt her so deeply culminating in the infamous Soul Train awards incident where she was booed. That same night, she foisted herself on the coolest, most popular (at the time) blackest entertainer in the room, Bobby Brown. End of story.
- ^ that is true, R366
and that is why she is talking about the 'hood in a video - that was the pressure. To be black and "real" you had to be from the 'hood. There were even middle class rappers who claimed to be from the hood.
- I agree, R366. I mentioned that in another thread awhile back. Apparently Whitney took a lot of things to heart and she would never just let things go. She needed to prove that she was straight and "down" and Bobby was the right guy to help her accomplish that.
- I think it's crazy she remained married to Bobby for 15 years so that she could prove the public wrong.
- The projects... what a phony. I have no doubt she was street savvy, but she grew up in a nice house with a pool. She was really desperate to prove something. Here's Gary Houston's former basketball coach, Ray Meyer, talking about the Houston home.
"I remember going to his home," said Meyer. "His Dad worked for the government and (his mother gospel singer) Cissy Houston, and I went in and I was shocked. There were records all the way from the floor to the ceiling. We talked to them there, Joey and I were there at the time. The father picked us up in a beautiful late-model Cadillac, and he drove us there, and they had a beautiful swimming pool outside. I said 'boy this kid's got it made'. Gary played very well for us for all those years. Now he's singing gospel music."
- It's a shame that people who are middle class and black feel pressure to be more 'real', as though you're a sellout if you're even moderately successful. I wonder if the pressures were more social or commercial. Maybe the record company wanted to remake Whitney as more 'ghetto' to sell more. But I always thought her audience was the mainstream pop market.
- R371, I think it was her personal feeling that she had to prove something. She was doing fine commercially before and during the Soul Train debacle. Her 1990 album which had an intentionally more urban R&B feel actually performed the weakest commercially out of the 3 records she'd released by then.
R366, I don't think she married Bobby due to the criticism from the black community. After they met, they were first friends for about 2 years before the sudden engagement in '91. If anything, I think it was the lesbian rumors and label pressure because of them that finally pushed her into a marriage. Of course, the criticism of the black community does probably explain why she chose that particular man.
- R372, As was mentioned in another thread Bobby was the third man Whitney tried to entice into marriage. Randall Cunningham and Eddie Murphy were the other two. I suspect her then drug use was a major deterrent to their getting seriously involved with her even if that involvement was an "arrangement".
The black community's rejection of Whitney was not about her being from a middle class black family. It really was mostly about her pop music roots. I liked pop music as a teen growing up in the 80's so I love her music. However, during this time urban music (rap, Hip Hop, New Jack Swing) and grunge music was moving center stage. These music genres were the antithesis of pop.
Janet Jackson managed to have a successful career during this time by moving away from the pop music Joe had her recording to teaming up Jam and Lewis. I think Whitney wanted to make herself over through her association and marriage to Bobby Brown but was not able to do so.
- R373, how do we know she was trying to entice Eddie, and especially Cunningham, into a marriage all the way back in the 80s? I kind of got the feeling that it was more of a casual bearding thing, at least with Cunningham?
- I thought the Cunningham thing was staged, as per his gf, and Eddie M was one photo op at an awards show. These guys were talking points to promote Whitney's heterosexuality, not actual relationships.
- To dismiss that Whitney's devotion to Bobby Brown is just ridiculous. No one can put up with that much for 15 years just to prove a point.
And to imply she would have settled for any man as well isn't true. Robert De Niro was reportedly obsessed with her sending her gifts from flowers to a diamond encrusted teddy bear(upon finding out she had thing for teddy bears). Whitney was having none of it and promptly sent them back.
- An addict can put up with a lot of things for a lot of irrational reasons, R376.
As for De Niro... a white man would've been bad for her career, and for her image in the black community, which was obviously very important to her. Not to mention he was sending her flowers early on in her career, when she was too young to be thinking of marriage (a real one or a merkin one).
- I agree with everyone who said that blaming Bobby for her troubles is ridiculous. She was an adult woman and he was still a teenager when they first met.
If anything, SHE was a bad influence on him.
- I suspect Bobby had to put with quite a bit as well. The infamous "doodie bubble" is an example.
- Also, on the age at which they first met: A 25 year old woman is light years ahead of a 19 y/o Manboy, in terms of maturity (and pretty much everything else.)
I think SHE called the shots.
- I don't think either one was a "bad influence" on the other, R378. By all acounts, they were both pretty fucked up and addicts when they met.
But one thing which Bobby was definitely guilty of was the physical violence. Cutting her face, hitting her, the cops having to be called in... all that shit he definitely should be blamed for.
- She was high, r376, and that fogs the mind, as has been pointed out. It was hardly a normal devotion.
As far as black stars trying to appear from the street, note Whoppi Goldberg's bullshit about being from "the hood." She also makes jokes about the projects. Whoppi is a child of Chelsea in NYC, middle class at the time and no where near the hood.
- I wonder if the 'from the street' thing is really trying to sell an image to white people, ie white people love the story of the poor black child rising up from the squalor and decrepitude to grab Success. That seems to be Whoopi's trip. Whitney changed her narrative, she started out with regal airs then later she adopted a more ghetto schtick and claimed it was to get back to her roots.
- Whitney told Oprah the marriage was in trouble by the second year and that she was unhappy. I don't think she was devoted to Bobby. She was devoted to putting forth a certain image and it included him.
- Lol. From 5:40, Whitney flaunting her fiancee Bobby in her TV special. Followed by a not so subtle performance of "All the Man That I Need" ("he fills me up, he's all man, he's all the man that I need"), and Whitney hugging a pillow and complaining to the camera that she "misses her Bobby".
Doesn't scream "passion" to me as much as it screams "look, y'all, I'm straight!!" And the scene where they're hugging kinda looks more awkward too, posing for the camera and everything.
- I've never seen Whitney's home but she is from East Orange. It's close to Newark and is by no means middle class. Of the three Oranges it's got the highest crime rate , and the worst school district. There may be a few nice homes there but I wouldn't walk down the streets of that town at any time.
- Yeah, R386, it's definitely not a nice area. But back when WH was growing up there (more than 30 years ago), it wasn't nearly as bad as in the 90s and since. Back when her family moved there, E. Orange was the destination of choice for many relatively better-off black families from Newark after the riots, including the Houstons.
I can't say for sure what it was like in her childhood. Having lived in West Orange in the 90's back when Whitney was presenting a goody-goody image to the world and known to be still roaming the streets looking for drugs I've always believed her street persona that came out once her drug habit became public to be 'The real Whitney'. That's was her attraction to Bobby-B.
- R388, yeah, I think it was closer to the real Whitney than the princess Clive packaged her as. But, whatever she was like in private, I think Cissy probably groomed her as a ladylike singer professionally even before Clive. She was basically born into a singing career - her mother had friends and contacts in the industry, and though her eventual success couldn't be predicted, she never really had to fight the odds.
It's not that she didn't have any ghetto in her, more that she was clearly insecure about whether other people (specifically, other black people) thought she did. She was definitely making great efforts to harp on how ghetto she was later on, including those misleading "projects" statements. The fact that at a certain point in her career she started mentioning it in just about every interview makes her seem really insecure about it.
- Whitney seemed insecure about several things.
- WHY DON'T YOU ALL LEAVE WHITNEY HOUSTON ALONE! LET HER REST. REMEMBER PAT HOUSTON HELP KILL WHITNEY HOUSRON OK!!!!!!!!!!
- Gee, you pull up and post on a thread that has not been commented on in 3 months to tell us to leave Whitney alone?
Go back over to Lipstick Alley dear.
Houston and Crawford had a romantic relationship. Deal with it.
- Yes, Robyn and Whitney loved each other. They were before their time. What people forget is that Whit was out and Society pushed her back in the closet. Alot of her pain came from from being dogged about her love for a woman. RIP Nippy.
- When was Whitney out?
- Whitney wasnt out but she and Robyn were together and shared a very special love. RIP Whitney.
- No need to end every post with RIP.