Pot calling the kettle black . And its not as if Hepburn and Gore Vidal were such good friends that she would have confided in him.
Starting to wonder whether Vidal and Scotty Bowers have dementia .
clit clit clit
R2, putting a space between the last words in a sentence and a period, which you do twice, is a more certain sign of dementia than is anything offered by Messrs. Bowers and Vidal.
Tidy yourself, Missy.
Ten years ago, Gore would have been more reliable. Now....
Is acting a pursuit that attracts lesbians the same way it does gay men? I've always assumed it was a gay male/straight woman world (like fashion), whereas others were more oriented towards straight men/lesbians (chefs, politics).
It attracts flamboyant, imaginative and creative women too, who are also not averse to (or even totally consumed by, a la Hepburn) same-sex affairs.
I would have smashed her back doors in!
Why did Katharine Hepburn pretend to be in a relationship with a married man like Spencer Tracey?
Tracy and Hepburn were the most tiresome "couple" in the history of Hollywood.
He kept going on and on about how acting wasn't that difficult but was the biggest drama queen in his real life. Don't want to feel guilty about your deaf son? Don't move out. Oh, so troubled, drinking, not drinking but wanting a woman around to do everything for you. Hepburn was more like a second mother.
She was just there because she knew he didn't want any more kids and she was famous for her "you can't have it all" attitude, an attitude that, for some reasons, other actresses have been able to make work. (Yeah, many were not great mothers but most of them were no better or worse than the average mother.)
They are both so sexless that who can ever envision them having sex, that they were some overly romantic couple.
The Hepburn/Grant films, while fewer, are much more varied and more interesting than most of the vaunted Hepburn/Tracy films. ("Keeper of the Flame" and "Sea of Grass" anyone?) And in most of them Tracy made sure he had a scene where the Hepburn character was made to look foolish. Most of the b.s. about that relationship was produced after Tracy's death by Hepburn herself.
Ironically most people thought she was a big dyke anyway.
There's no quote of him actually saying that in the link.
Don't know why Vidal would have any sort of specific bone to pick with the long dead Hepburn but he was always pissed off about something or at someone. Lived for it, as did Christopher Hitchens.
Hepburn and Tracy were MASTERS at keeping their true proclivities under a smokescreen for their entire lives. STILL, to this day, no one who can or will really "verify" anything other than stories such as this Bowers has come up with. They were products of their era, of the star system, of the best that publicity men could offer. MGM was the most powerful studio in the world back then and it protected many stars. As others have said, it is hard to think of Kate OR Spence having sex, Hepburn moreso. I can imagine Tracy just sitting there with some guy blowing him. Not to get too vulgar, but it is hard to think of him as much more than a passive participant, if he could even get it up what with being a drunk.
This from a man who has confessed to fucking thousands of guys when he was cute, and hiring thousands of Italian male prostitutes when he was no longer attractive?
What's wrong with that, R14?
You're idiots for doubting this man's integrity.
Spencer Tracy looks like he probably suffered from the "Irish curse" in more ways than one.
As I recall KH said something slighting during - and about - 'Suddenly Last Summer.' She wasn't, Gore felt, entirely on board.
Never one to let the slightest slight go, Gore nurtured the grudge. Much later he made unsympathetic reference to her Parkinson's.
R13...proclivities? Oh dear. Self-loathing eldergay, much?
Why does this surprise anyone? She's already been outed.
R14= morality police. Likes to rape sheep.
R5 got lost and thinks this is the "need a signed affidavit to confirm gossip" board.
R18...thinks that he's undermining Vidal somehow by saying he's bitchy...to a bunch of bitches on a bitchy gay gossip board. Get some therapy dear.
The real news here is that Vidal is backing Bowers book. Now that's interesting.
I have no problem believing Hepburn had an active sex life. She was beautiful, rich and famous. She was used to getting her way and VERY energetic. Here's to you, slutty Kate!
name a white woman star who was not a slut.
Maureen O'Hara, R22.
R20 reads Darwin Porter
[quote]name a white woman star who was not a slut.
Are you bitter because you couldn't be sluttly even if you tried?
How do you spell Calli Lillies???
Hollywood kept pushing him as sexy, but he was just a sloppy and drunk Irish guy.
That's an awfully judgmental thing for him to say.
She may have been a lesbian or bi, but doubt she would ever act on it. All she seems to have had was the obligatory marriage, then a couple questionable affairs, then... the Spencer thing- whatever that was (have trouble picturing them doing the nasty).
Sad that her lover was her career- but happy for us, with all the great performances.
I agree with R27. I never understood why Tracy was considered leading man material, much less handsome. No matter his age or the role, he always appeared exiting middle age and approaching the golden years.
"Pot calling the kettle black"
Gore Vidal was a very slutty lesbian?
Because he was a phenomenal actor r30 and because middle age in appearance and leading man are not mutually exclusive. Was Bette Davis ingenue-beautiful?
[quote]Was Bette Davis ingenue-beautiful?
You've obviously never seen any of her very early movies.
Did someone call for a slutty lesbian?
"She may have been a lesbian or bi, but doubt she would ever act on it. All she seems to have had was the obligatory marriage, then a couple questionable affairs, then... the Spencer thing- whatever that was (have trouble picturing them doing the nasty"
Huh?! If you've read the Mann biography, or have seen any of the gossip items from early in Kae's career (the item that has photos of Kate/Gardbo/Dietrich with the caption 'members of the same club'), or seen photos of Kate with the TRUE love of her life, Lara Harding, you'd have no trouble realizing that Hepburn was at least bi. You think she spent all her time having tea parties at Bryn Mawr? Kate's mother was a very liberal, educated, and vocal feminist...I have no doubt Kate would have no problems acting on same-sex attractions, having been raised in an open and progressive environment.
Kate's pleated slacks
Please read James Curtis' biography of Spencer Tracy in which he debunks Bowers' claims very easily. Another reason to read Curtis' book, of course, is because it is a well written, well researched and factual book. Bowers' book is none of these things.
The following is from Curtis' book at page 882. It's about William Mann's book and Bowers' appearance in that book:
'Bowers is full of glib stories and revelations, all cheerfully unverifiable. He claims, for example, a "long happy association" with Vivien Leigh and another, in a Variety interview, with Tyrone Power. Mann devotes considerable space to establishing Bowers' credibility. ("I've never known Scotty not to the tell the truth," the late Gavin Lambert is quoted as saying.) He then allows Bowers to torpedo himself with the very first statement attributed to him. Bowers describes his initial encounter with Spencer Tracy as having taken place at Cukor's home soon after the end of the war; "That was the first time, but it went on for years. Tracy would be drinking when I arrived. He got loaded. He'd sit there drinking at the table from five o'clock in the afternoon until two in the morning, when he'd fall onto the bed and ask me to join him. . . . And in the morning he'd act like nothing happened. He'd just say thanks for staying over"
What Bowers obviously didn't know when he made that statement is that Tracy was completely sober from the time he was discharged from Doctors Hospital in May 1945 ---- nearly four months before the end of the war --- until well into the fifties. And, of course, he was never the guzzler Bowers portrays him to be. . . . .'
Add to Curtis' comment that Bowers is now changing his story claiming that his first encounter with Tracy was in 1952 during the filming of Pat and Mike. Tracy wasn't drinking during that period either by the way. It's hard to keep the "facts" straight when you are lying.
LOL r35 honestly.
Bowers' book portrays Kate as an extremely effective lesbian. I was happy to hear that.
I've never seen a picture where Spencer Tracy appeared remotely handsome. He and Hepburn seem perfectly suited. If either of them had sex with anyone I would prefer not to think about it.
Vidal seemed edgy at one time and downright crazy at others, but whatever he's spewing nowadays is bound to be sheer blather.
Takes one to know one.
I assume Katharine Hepburn was gay, but like Bowers' mistake in his Duke and Duchess story of referring to The Duke as "Eddy," just picked up by another reviewer, the same reviewer also picked up Bowers referring to Hepburn calling Tracy 'Spence," which she never did. He was always Spencer.
If Hepburn actually approached that many women sexually the lesbian community would have known about it.
In fact, the whole world would have known about it, because Hepburn supposedly like pretty young straight girls and those girlies would have talked until blue in the face.
Hepburn strikes me as asexual. Cold, distant and analytical. She may have felt comfortable around gay women but probably never got laid.
She never appealled to me in fact, I don't like her at all.
too blue for my blood
R44 That sure isn't what Scotty alleges.
[quote]Bowers' mistake in his Duke and Duchess story of referring to The Duke as "Eddy,"
It's been my experience that, as long as he turns up, one doesn't give a fuck what a rentboy calls you in his attempt at client courtesy or belief of a friendship. I suspect it was the same with His Royal Highness.
I think too many reviewers of the book are making the classic mistake of presuming everyone is just like everyone else, or worse, like them. It evidences the usual failure of the heterosexual imagination when it comes to homosexual liaisons.
well, it doesn't take any talent to just lie there.
on her back, always
On dick cavett she answered the gay question with something like " if there were only a cure" or something like that.
[quote] I never understood why Tracy was considered leading man material, much less handsome.
Yes, Spencer Tracy gets the award for worst aging by a Hollywood star (2nd place to Gary Cooper). But really, Tracy didn't look all that bad when he was younger and the before the booze started to hit.
My best friend grew up in a big house not far from where Hepburn lived. This was during the 70s.
She told me two things. 1) Hepburn was very mean to neighborhood children, snapping at them if they asked her anything. 2) It was generally assumed that Katherine Houghton, Hepburn's niece who played her daughter in Guess Who is Coming to Dinner - was really Tracy and Hepburn's daughter.
The Duke of Windsor was very emphatic about being called Your Royal Highness and only people very close to him got to call him David. No one called him Eddy. Just as Hepburn never said Spence.
"1) Hepburn was very mean to neighborhood children, snapping at them if they asked her anything.
That makes me like her even more.
Hepburn often referred to Tracy as Spence.
"Get off my LAHWN, you little BAHSTARDS!!"
[R48] Don't know, but I remember Katharine Hepburn wrote an article about working with John Wayne and said something that was interpreted as anti-gay, probably because it was. I recall that there was a biting letter to the editor as a result.
"The following is from Curtis' book at page 882."
882 pages about Spencer Tracy? I'd sooner slit my wrists.
Must be just me, but I find the Tracy/Hepburn relationship in Adam's Rib highly SEXUALLY charged, even without any love scenes per se.
True, they may have been just acting but it is the very definition of a charismatic screen coupling.
Difficult to believe that anyone really cares about what Hepburn and Tracy did sexually. Maybe in the '40s and '50s, but who cares now.
Right near the time of Katharine's death, there was a biography that came out that claimed Spencer was gay. She was furious and refuted that claim 100%,and she said Spencer was not gay and that is a complete lie! If this is all BS, is Gore Vidal bitter at these people who are are mentioned in this book? or is he getting Alzheimers? senile? I still don't understand why would Gore have Scotty as a friend and why would he support Scotty's claims?
"She was furious and refuted that claim 100%,and she said Spencer was not gay and that is a complete lie"
That's impossible because towards the end of her life she barely remembered who anyone was.
I always compare the Hepburn/Tracy affair to the relationship of SJP and Matthew Broderick, even though neither of them are married to someone else. It appears to be a relationship that both are getting something out of, a family, positive press, probably a genuine love and friendship. Both do their own thing and respect each other's needs. Why not, traditional relationships could probably take some lessons. Kate Hepburn was way ahead of her time.
I like that answered her phone by saying: "What?"
(Someone here said so.)
[R61] Excellent point. I heard when she was doing a play, like the Shakespeare she did in Connecticut, he would go with her and wait back in the hotel. Also my old acting teacher worked with her and -- I don't know the play -- and he loved the way she kicked up her heels and acted like a young girl. One night she came in and he noticed her performance had been really toned down. When asked why, she said, "Spencer said I looked stupid."
Self-styled "aristocrat" Gore Vidal is a socially competitive, unhappy homosexual who thinks it is an insult to call other people homosexuals. That's why he calls Ms Hepburn one. Terminally jealous, he cannot resist slapping anyone who is famous and accomplished....
r63 Great story...I think love is love and even if there's not a sexual component to it, doesn't make it any less wonderful. There's nothing better to have a supportive companion who really cares about you to share your life with.
[R65] What a wonderful and true comment.
Did the Scotty Bowers thread get removed? This is the only that turns up after a search for that name.
Gore Vidal always seemed to me to be a mean bitter man. Why would he take his anger out on dead people?
Why would he not?
In the water, I'm a very slutty lesbian.
What did Bowers say about the Windsors? wasn't the Duke's uncle, originally the heir to Edward VII, known as Eddy? the one who was reputed to attend male brothels and who was suspected of being Jack the Ripper and who just happened to die mysteriously.
Also, the Duke of Windsor's brother, Duke of Kent, was at least bi...what was his nickname?
so r61, are you saying SJP is a lesbian? Or is she asexual?
r72 I really don't know what SJP's sexual orientation is. I know I don't believe that anyone is truly asexual. Maybe they choose not to have sex at a certain point in their lives but that's a choice. My point of bringing her up was that people have speculated about her marriage for years but both seem to be very supportive of each other. There must be a a genuine love between them, whether or not they are gay or straight. To share a life and raise a family for almost 20 years, there has to be something. It can't just be all business. Same being said with Tracy/Hepburn. Speculation was that Kate was a lesbian but her and Tracy shared a very special bond which didn't necessarily translate into something sexual. There has never been any denying that their love for each other was real regardless of anything else. Love is love.
Impressive thread. Oh Katharine! Lolz
Now you litle sons of bitches stay off my lawn while the Cala Lillies are in bloom!
"There's nothing better to have a supportive companion who really cares about you to share your life with."
Being friends is not sharing your life.
Gore Vidal wasn't the most trustworthy person. He loved to make outrageous statements about people. So I really doubt his pronouncement.
Vidal never sucked MY cock.
Does sexual orientation really have anything to do with a woman's desire to have kids? I've known straight women (including married ones) who were childless by choice and lesbians who really, really wanted kids and had them.
So he never said that?
[quote]I like that answered her phone by saying: "What?"
Bette Davis answered her phone by saying "Yes?" And when she was done with a conversation, she just hung up without saying goodbye.
Those crotchety old Yankee bitches didn't have time for pleasantries.
R3 made me laugh, even a year later.
I don't think I would take seriously ANY information that comes from a source that calls itself "Queerty."
What did Gore Vidal say about Justin Bieber?
When I was in a college, I got involved with an older guy. I was very naive about the ways of our world. He was trustworthy. He said he had been friends with Hepburn and, at her suggestion, they would go out and pick up possible sex partners. She would pick up guys for him and he would pick up young women for her. He swore that that was true.
Well, bless her heart.
There maybe a possibility she and others pissed him off for some reason,and Gore Vidal stated a lot of untrue things about her and others, especially when they are dead. He seemed like he could have been a very nasty very bitchy miserable queen.
He was a miserable excuse for a human being. He was funny and bright, and for quite a while he was pretty; but he was snobbish and resentful and cruel.
What's untrue, r87, that Hepburn was a slut?
R86, that's similar to what DL fave David Ehrenstein said. When one gets older, even a star, they have less choices of partners and must ask others to help find sexual partners. It's not like they can make a connection at the gym anymore. Hepburn even looked to hook-up with young women in her later movies.
for the love of god, FF r89 and DO NOT CLICK ON IT
I don't really see what's so bitchy about what Vidal's claiming.
So Hepburn probably was lesbian, and probably had plenty of sex with women. Where's the insult in that?
"Cynthia McFadden named her son Spencer Graham McFadden"
The Gore They Loved
Not long before his death, last year, Gore Vidal agreed to talk about the most important women in his life. Drawing on their conversations, Judy Balaban recalls the writer’s strong bonds—with Joanne Woodward, Joan Collins, and Susan Sarandon, among others—as well as his tortured relationship with his mother.
Interesting article in Vanity Fair.
I've never believed that Tracy and Hepburn were ever lovers. Hepburn exaggerated their friendship so people would believe she was coupled. Perhaps they took a stab at it early on but it's more likely she was a nurse to his binges. She didn't promote the "affair" until after he died, anyway. In her autobiography, it read false.
Mommy loved her tho
Saw an old interview wih Katherine Hepburn a few months back, and she appeared very bull-dykish. She had her feet tucked under her on the chair, her sleeves were rolled up to her armpits and she talked with a lesbian lisp.
I am wondering, was that an asied of her personality or was she always like this? And why would anyone who witnessed her behaviour during that time, not think she was gay?!
It is amazing to me how much people deify Hollywood icons and to what lengths they go to defend their perception of said icon.
"No one ever dared call the duke Eddie" so he could not have had his dick sucked or sucked a dick. And so on...
Well I got news for you. LA is a pretty boring place now. I can't imagine how boring it was 70 years ago. No TV, no anonymous internet surfing for porn, morality clauses in your employment contract.
[r98]: there is no "lesbian lisp". Only gay men lisp.
George Cukor, as I recall, knew Hepburn and Tracy's sexual secrets, as they were all friends...I seem to remember him being a source of information regarding Kate's lesbianism. In the William Mann biography "Kate", there is a picture of Hepburn and Laura Harding (who was said to be the true love of her life) with Cukor, at one of his parties.
Where there's smoke...
I doubt Hepburn was a lesbian. She literally and I mean literally worship men at their feet.
[quote]Saw an old interview wih Katherine Hepburn a few months back, and she appeared very bull-dykish. She had her feet tucked under her on the chair, her sleeves were rolled up to her armpits and she talked with a lesbian lisp.
You are *such* an asshole, r98. And a sunt.
The "c" has a cedilla.
R93, DL gays don't want Hepburn to be a lesbian because they hate lesbians.
R102, no woman worships men at their feet, joke or not.
My god. Hepburn was so dykey, I can't believe even GAY men don't see that.
R102 and R104 a little higher up. I don't know any women into feet (not that there is anything wrong with that).
Lesbians don't lisp; they bark.
Sad I suppose that Gore failed the cut for dead notables at the Oscars.
Then again, the public isn't really interested in the technical staff.