The islands are fantastic, but the mainland is a dump.
Athens is dumpy. One of the ugliest capitals in Europe. The Greeks in Astoria ,queens did a nice job recreating it. It's just as ugly and dumpy as Athens is! Naples, Italy and that surrounding area is so much interesting even with the Camorra and the occasional garbage pileups.
Thessaloniki is not that bad for a Greek city but it's nothing compared to a Florence or a Munich. Patras is indistinct to be honest. There's no there there.But it's not the pit that Athens is.
If you bitches can't stand the rest of the world, maybe you should just stay in your suburbs.
Greece [sic] is the word!
Greece is a beautiful country. The men there are rugged and virile, usually have matted body hair and big meaty butts. Elias Koteas, though born and raised in Montréal, originates from Greece.
Once you get beyond Athens, mainland Greece is gorgeous. I love the mountain valleys with the temples tucked in.
Compared to where OP, the United States? Bitch please!
What R4 said is true.
Greece is beautiful country with a history and civilization second to none. Athens is home to the most famous structure on Earth. I won't name it as You should already know what this is.
The islands are beautiful and romantic.
The culture and food, fantastic.
Can't wait to return and esp. spend more time in Athens.
Original home of Olympic Games is on Mainland of Greece FYI.
Greece is a beautiful country marred by bad development and corrupt, inept, quarrelsome people. Bad NATO ally, bad EU partner, racist & insular society. Olympic Village from 2004 is falling apart. Holds itself above the Balkans, but has many Balkan flaws.
I slept with a guy from Greece once and his dick was small.
[quote]corrupt, inept, quarrelsome people
Someone here said that the people there now aren't the same people that brought forth Sappho, Aristotle. Sophocles, etc. They are later colonists.
R11. Well, you haven't slept with me and my big uncircumcised Greek dick.
tell us more, R14! Yum
R14 After the disappointing experience I had, I never slept with a Greek guy again. How big is yours? Maybe I should give it another try someday...
I thought You were the Greek Guy?
big n thick
r12, I believe you are referring to the slav influx that happened form 600-900. Also remember that the only original genetic population of Greeks is around Thessaloniki.
Tell me more about Greece! I'm planning a vacation to Athens and a couple islands in September.
On one of the travel/vacation threads, someone said that in the Greek Isles, you can see the most beautiful sunsets you will ever see anywhere, and that no, they aren't the same in every location.
Greece does a magnificent job of lying about history, trying to make people think they are the inheritors of ancient Hellenic tradition, when in comparatively recent times, 40% of the population spoke Albanian as their native tongue.
Greece suffered from being subjects of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years. It kept them away from Western Europe, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. As a result, they are backwards, superstitious and suspicious of "outsiders". They were an oppressed people who lost their identify in the face of Turkism/Muslim rule.
If you look at most Greek men now they have more physically in common with Turkish men then they do to the Greeks of Alexander the Great's time.
Why is Greece called Greece in English, not Hellenes? And, why were they so easily defeated by those damn Ottomans? The Greeks should take back Constantinople AND some!!!
Istanbul, not Constantinople!
The Orthodox Church also kept Greece away from the Enlightenment. Greece, Serbia, Romania and Russia have a darker, more paranoid style than many of their neighbors because of this very interior, patriarchal, nationalistic religion.
Before the Ottomans conquered them, they were ruled by the Byzantines for 1100 years and the Romans for nearly 400 years. So they were pretty used to be subjugated I would think.
"They were employed to re-settle areas that had been largely depopulated through wars, epidemics, and other reasons," aka genocide
"Greece faced invasions from the Heruli, Goths, and Vandals during the reign of Romulus Augustulus. Stilicho, who acted as regent for Arcadius, evacuated Thessaly when the Visigoths invaded in the late 4th century. Arcadius' Chamberlain Eutropius allowed Alaric to enter Greece, and he looted Athens, Corinth and the Peloponnese. Stilicho eventually drove him out around 397 and Alaric was made magister militum in Illyricum. Eventually, Alaric and the Goths migrated to Italy, sacked Rome in 410, and built the Visigothic Kingdom in Iberia and southern Asia, which lasted until 711 with the advent of the Arabs."
I remember reading history, and discovering that all the important events I read about from a certain period of Greek history, didn't even happen in Greece, they happened in Turkey.
Where did you get that crap R22? Greek was taught in secret during the 400 years of Turkish rule. Albanian was spoken DURING Turkish rule, not since independence.
The color of the Mediterrannean around the island of Santorini, is the most amazing blue I've ever seen. it doesn't exist anywhere else.
Then came the Huns, Bulgars, and Slavs. Slavs overran the whole peninsula. But the Byzantines counterattacked, segregating Slavs, slaughtering them, and moving 300,000 to Bithnya where the Arabs got them. Greek speakers were brought from Italy and Turkey to repopulate the Pelopponese after the Slavs were "ethnically cleansed."
Bulgars returned and occupied northern Greece until 1000 AD. The Byzantines conquered them, but the Pechenegs came next. From the South came the Normans.
From 1204-1261 Venetians ruled the islands and the "Romanian Empire" ruled Greece under the Baldwins of Flanders. The Byzantines were gradually restored after 1261 in the next two hundred years only to fall apart in civil wars and wars with raiders from Catalonia.
Serbs and Ottomans began their attack, and the Black Plague took a terrible toll. The Ottomans finally conquered it all near the end of the 1400s.
So, Santorini is a definite place to visit?
Any recommendations on whether to fly to the islands from Athens or ferry it out?
I took the ferry, from Athens to Mykonos. It was a great trip, beautiful vistas and easy to get to the port via taxi. There are different types, high speed and regular. I sat with the hottest men I have ever seen, in person anyway, unfuking believable men.
The ferry from Santorini Mykonos great too.
I loved Athens and want to go back. My only complaint is the irregular taxi rates...ask before if you are watchingbthe dollars.
How well did you speak Greek R37?
[R35} Decent job there. Those who claim that Greeks are closer to Turks genetically etc there is a reason. During the conquest of the Byzantine Empire, the Byzantine Greeks(who called themselves Romans and Rum by the Turks tried to keep their own culture. The Turks put crippling taxes on Christian minorities and there were people that converted. In addition many people were forcibly converted. The Ottomans also took the first son of a Christian family and made him a Janissary which was their elite military corps. Not to mention that Sultans have half Greek or European wives. So in essence, the Turks mixed in with the local population and don't look Asian as they originally looked.
[R24] The Romans came into contact with a group of Hellenes called Graechi.Supposedly they named the whole country after them!
[R25] Istanbul is the Turkish word for Constantinople! Bul is polis AKA city in Turkish and Istanbul comes from a Greek term for going in to the city or a Turkification of Constantinople.
Parts of the Greek Islands and the mainland can be beautiful but there area few caveats there. The Greek cities are quite ugly especially Athens. when compared to other European cities it looks like the Bronx with palm trees more than anything else! The mountains can be very craggy looking and not necessarily majestic .
[R22] I have relatives different parts of Greece and none of my relatives speak Albanian or of Albanian descent.That number you cited is over exaggerated. On the other hand, I do have relatives that of Venetian descent from Corfu which was part of the Venetian Empire. BTW those Venetian colonists married Greeks and Hellenized their names and their descendants are Greek Orthodox and not Catholic.
One last thing despite ancient Greeks penchant for homosex the Modern ones can be quite homophobic to be honest.
I only do Greek, no speak!
No problems with the language. I encountered very few people that didn't have some English skills.
R39, yes I encountered "friendly" homophobia. A taxi driver warned my friend and I about going to Mykonos, "a lot of the gays there, be cautious " obviously, he had no gaydar, seeing both my friend and I are as gay as it gets, without sequins.
We just said "oh really" and moved on...why start trouble!
One summer I had a hotel room whose balcony had a view of the Acropolis. Fabulous. And the street below me had places selling bsklava to beat the band.
Went all around the mainland, including Thessaloniki. I thought it was interesting to see NO ENGLISH on the street signs.
Delphi was spectacular, especially as I rented a room with air-conditioning! The ruins, the museum, the site of the Oracle, amazing.
I'm thinking of doing two days in Athens, three on Mykonos and three on Santorini. I should not condense that to add Crete, if I can't spend a decent amount of time there, right?
Stayed here on Mykonos. We had the Villa and enjoyed the place immensely. The only negative, which is also a positive, it is located above the old town, away from the hustle bustle. It is steep walk down, definitely doable, to town. The views and sunset were absolutely stunning from the Geranium.
In Athens, the Herodion has a fantastic location. The rooftop lounge has vistas of the Acropolis. My room was an inside room with courtyard view (ie, none). Very small, well-appointed bathroom and the morning breakfast spread was a wonderful surprise.
Hey R44, you wouldn't be going via Homeric Tours are you? I'm planning to to the same spots.
No. Right now I'm just comparing prices for the package on various sights, Air France, Virgin, European Destinations, etc...
Wait, so, were the Greeks fair-skinned and blond before the Ottomans came along and ruined everything?
Is there any English on the street signs, r43, or are they just also written in Latin characters?
R33 is a brainwashed idiot who knows nothing and lies about the truth. Although, I can understand that it's a big shock to discover that all that Hellenic nationalist crap your second-parent generation parents fed you is complete rubbish.
Although, sure, since there has been a campaign to completely kill of the Albanian, Vlach, Slavic and other languages since 1833 I can see that far fewer people speak them today.
Greek characters, R50. But once you get the alphabet it's easy since so many English words come from Greek.
[R42] Unfortunately most of the Bronx doesn't look like that! If you want to point out Riverdale and Arthur Avenue those are the exceptions to the rule. By and large is the armpit of NYC. at least Athens has beautiful vistas outside the city and palm trees whereas The Bronx is just a dump!
[R50] Why the anger? I have no Vlach,Albanian or Slavic speakers in my family at all and never did. They are a minority population in Greece. The official minority in Greece is the Muslim one which includes Turks,Pomaks and Muslim Gypsies. That happens to be a better policy than France which went out of its way to deny Basque, Provencal and Alsatian people their language/cultural rights. Not to mention Corsicans!
R52, you continue to talk crap. You are a nationalist idiot who knows notihng.
I was saying earlier that Greeks are quarrelsome people...
[quote]Wait, so, were the Greeks fair-skinned and blond before the Ottomans came along and ruined everything?
The Nazis pushed that theory because they decided they were their descendants, but this has since been disproved.
Wasn't Alexander the Great fair-skinned and blond though? Or is that just Macedonians? Elaborate please, expert at R55!
If you want to point out Riverdale and Arthur Avenue those are the exceptions to the rule
Mott Haven is the new Red Hook
One of the most pointlessly argumentative people I know is Greek. I've had to cut ties with her on Facebook because of her shit-stirring. Not to say it's a national trait, but she certainly represents...
[R52] I'm not a Greek nationalist, I'm only part Greek! I'm also English and Italian as well.So in essence unlike whatever you are I can see ethnicities and people from many different sides.That being said you never responded to why the great French(and I love the French) have destroyed those various cultures in their countries?
[R57] Queens is the new Brooklyn not the Bronx. There are still neighborhoods in the Bronx that are the worst in New York by far. I remember when people started calling The Grand Concourse , The Concourse, because it wasn't so grand anymore!
City Island is so small population wise. At the most 5000 people live there. It's decent but it's just a itty bitty piece of the puzzle.
[R58] Greeks have a big habit of being antithetical. If you say black they say white. As you can see from this current crisis you can see how far that mode of conversation has gotten them.
The most pointlessly argumentative people I know are Cajuns. I think it's what happens when relatively cultured people devote themselves to agriculture. They became first class assholes.
I found the Greeks to be so hospitable and just genuinely nice. I had a great experience in Athens. I really liked it. Not the most charming place but an interesting city none the less. Love Mykonos and especially Naxos where I saw Sharon Stone sunbathing nude.
Summer wouldn't be summer for me without a visit to Greece - I'm off in Aug.
Love the islands - especially the Sporades - and have actually had some great times in Athens.
[BTW if Greece 'took back' Istanbul, the combined country would then have a majority Turkish population - so would become Turkey 2 rather than Greece ;)
Has it changed a lot with the economic situation?
Is Athens worse than Detroit?
Travel question! I'm looking at a vacation that includes Athens, Santorini and Mykonos. Only the hotel in Mykonos is outside of the town. Is that wise?
[quote] Only the hotel in Mykonos is outside of the town. Is that wise?
Mykonos is not that big, so a taxi ride into town is not that big of a deal. The places I have stayed there are not exactly IN TOWN, but are a short walk. Or you could rent a scooter.
This one hotel is on the Piaty Yialos, which I'm reading is about a 15 minute bus ride away. That would be too far, right?
I've heard that amount of feral cats both on the mainland and on the islands is disgusting. They jump right on to the table if you're eating in an outdoor cafe. They can be quite agressive, too.
R67 yea, thats kind of far. But there is no shortage of taxis
R68 I have never had that happen to me or have seen it happen.
R64 It's not that bad compared to Detroit or any other US city. Astoria in Queens looks a lot like Athens in both a good and bad way.Greece is not a high crime country either when compared to the US.
R61 The Greeks changed their attitude since their economic woes. They really learned their lesson. They can be friendly but they can be assholish as well.Now that they are desperate for money they can't afford to be nasty anymore.
Loved Skiathos. Tropical feel. Only downside is the high percentage of chav packagers.
[quote]Love Mykonos and especially Naxos where I saw Sharon Stone sunbathing nude.
The threat of seeing that would certainly keep me away!
More help needed, sorry! Is it worth it to stay near the towns of Fira in Santorini and Chora in Mykonos. Chora sounds a bit larger than Fira. But is there enough to town in each little town to keep one busy? Or are other locations on the island more desirable?
R73, Both Mykonos and Santorini are small islands. Fira is lovely, actually, and if you a rent a scooter or an ATV, you have quick and easy access to the rest of the island. But both are rather quiet. If you want to experience nightlife, you need to stay in or near Mykonos town. I can recommend a lovely hotel on Mykonos called the Amazing View. Quiet, up on top of hill overlooking the port, and about 10 minutes to mykonos town by motor scooter.
Why do the wrong people travel, travel travel,
while the right people stay at home?
Has anyone been to Herakleion on Crete? Is it worth visiting? I like charming old cities.
Dubya loves the Grecians...
So were the Greeks blondes till the Muslim invasion?
I love Mykonos and Santorini. Mykonos for the gay beaches and festive nightlife, and Santorini for the jaw-dropping beauty. The Greek Islands are very laid-back, unlike most of the Mediterranean beach resorts.
I've always flown on Olympic Air to the islands. How long does the ferry take from Athens to Mykonos? Is the water choppy? I'm prone to sea sickness.
Rent the 80s movie Summer Lovers with Darryl Hannah before you go.
I love Athens for the ruins but it is one of the dirtiest cities in the world, grey/brown , dirty street, graffiti everywhere. Mykonos and Santorini are paradise