Impressions of Spain

Surprised you liked Madrid so much. I found it dirty and chilly. Did you go to Barcelona?

What did you think of Cordoba?

Madrid, was gorgeous but I stayed around the Prado and Recoleta areas. The buildings are incredible. It was cold at night and in the 50's daytime, sunny everyday.

Cordoba was much quieter being only about 300K people but it is a beautiful city. The Mezquita is really amazing, the Alcazar gardens are beautiful. The old city was a little sleepy with maze like streets, kind of reminded me of Venice without the canals.

Barcelona next time!

Americans are not exactly loved in Europe OP.

The cold shoulder you are getting is relative to the international actions of your Corporations and Military.

Did you see any male Almodovar-like drag queens?

R5, I didn't get the cold shoulder. People were very nice for the most part. I actually try to be extremely well behaved when I travel for your exact reasons stated.

I found Spaniards way more friendly than Italians -who tended to be pushy and rude.

And Spain was far more interesting than Italy.

R5 = pura mierda I was there and treated with respect always. Spaniards treat you just fine. What do you expect? a curtsy for being American. They treat you like everybody else. You act respectfully, they will treat you with respect.

The Basque restaurants are well worth it.

And yes Barcelona is wonderful.

Madrid = meat.

Barcelona = shellfish.

[quote]Surprised you liked Madrid so much. I found it dirty and chilly.

Which areas did you stay? Madrid is one elegant city.

Madrid = New York

Barcelona = LA

R12, we went all over. It was dirty and the people were unpleasant. Much preferred Barcelona. I lived in Salamanca for a year.

Madrid = Franco.

Barcelona = Almodovar.

OP here. Elegant is the word I would use to describe Madrid. I did not find it to be dirty, maybe a little bit toward the Sol but it is extremely busy.

Spaniards were great but when I've been to Italy they seem to bend over backward for you, plus they love Americans, since so many of there own ended up here.

I went to Barcelona in 2008 and was surprised that it seemed like nearly all of the people on the busy sidewalks were making eye contact with me. I normally don't look at people on sidewalks, but I guess since I was on the lookout for hot guys I was looking at a lot of people. I'm tall, and Irish/German with reddish hair so I'm sure I stood out a bit.

I haven't been to Madrid, but have received a lot of online messages from men there. I guess "opposites attract" is relevant.

[quote] Italy they seem to bend over backward for you

I've found this to be something of a show, something you'll find in the service/tourist industry, but Italians can be quite cold and rude, as another poster said... I found Italians to be very conscious of a national identity, who fits in and who doesn't, who is Italian and who isn't.

I've oddly had the opposite experience of many American travelers who say they find German people cold and rude, and the Italians warm and friendly. Go figure.

Spanish men are hot. Very elegant and very few are overweight.

There are Barcelona people and Madrid people.

Personally I prefer Madrid. It is more of a legitimately Spanish city than Barcelona is and not nearly as overpriced and touristy.

OP:

Sorry your trip to Spain did not include Grenada.

The Al-Hambra is incredible.

Have any other DLer's taken the tour of the Moorish castle?

In a word: "Wow!"

OP = Charlotte Bartlett, and doesn't know it.

Yeah, it's amazing! We went over to Morocco from there for a week.

Haven't you got some Franco memorial to visit, r5?

R5, like Europe is in ANY position to criticize America for their actions, considering their much longer and more brutal history of genocide, colonialism, militarism and racism.

I visited Barcelona this past Summer. The beaches were really great and swimming in the warm Mediterranean sea is unbelievable.

I found the food not so great though but I think it's because we weren't discriminating enough.

Barcelona is very very touristy and we were there for the first time so we stuck to the tourist trail.

I think to truly experience Barcleona you need to step off the beaten path.

Going to the Picasso museum MADE the trip. To be up close and personal with paintings that I've only read about was a once in a lifetime experience.

Any DLers hear or care that Walt Disney was likely born in Spain and not in the USA as he claimed?

See link, 1/3 way down.

I've been Mojacar and I have had a wrought-iron Andalo Man above my bedroom door for the past 25 years.

[quote]To be up close and personal with paintings that I've only read about was a once in a lifetime experience.

Did you lick them?

Montserrat is a a great day trip from Barcelona. I love listening to Catalan; it's a very pretty language.

The one thing I couldn't understand about Barcelona was their obsession with pickpockets.

Everyone was so clinging and clutchy with their purses, etc.

What gives? Is Barcelona really that bad?

R21 I went to the Al-Hambra yes it is incredible!

I also went to Granada, Sevilla, Monserrat, Madrid, Toledo, and Barcelona.

This was over a decade ago when I was a teenager and I loved all of them. I was on a two week trip with my highschool in the summmer and I learned a lot about Spanish culture and I practiced Spanish a lot.

I remember that the men and women in Spain were very hot and I attracted them both but I didn't have sex with anyone.

"What gives? Is Barcelona really that bad?"

YES!

BTW I think a closer comparison for an American city is San Francisco. I liked Barcelona but it is a bit boring after a couple of days.

[quote]Sorry your trip to Spain did not include Grenada.

It's OK. The OP got into a med school in the U.S. after all.

To each his own, but having lived in both Madrid and Barcelona, I can see why travelers love Barcelona for vacation. It's gorgeous, on the Mediterranean, and European. But it's not very Spanish.

I loved living in Madrid. It was a much easier city to live in, much cleaner, better Metro access, easier to navigate and much friendlier. I remember being criticized by some older folks for speaking castellano (spanish) there instead of catalan. Nevermind that I'm American and at least was able to speak one of their languages.

I was shocked at how dirty Barcelona and especially Rome (which was filthy) were in comparison to Madrid.

OP you would have won cool points if you'd titled your thread "Sketches of Spain" instead.

OP here, didn't make it to Grenada but wanted to. I only had a week. The Mezquita in Cordoba was pretty incredible. I can only imagine how amazing the Alhambra is. Next time. I would also like to check out Valencia, looks like a fun city.

People, please. GrAnada. Grenada is a Caribbean island.

[quote]when I've been to Italy they seem to bend over backward for you

Really? They bent over forward for me.

Thank you, R37.

Thanks, R37.

It will not happen again when I post the name of the place.

Thank you, sir!

Rim-shot for r38! Rim-shot, get it?

so did anyone visit Spain and really LOVE the food?

Most "world cities" have an identifiable monument to put on tourist brochures etc. Barcelona's will always be La Sagrada Familia cathedral. Isn't Madrid's only well known one the Times Square like Schweppes sign?

That's ridiculous R43, Madrid has some of the most beautiful and numerous buildings I have ever seen in one city outside of Paris or Rome.

Cuenca, Spain. Anyone but me been? Cute, tiny little town with the tripiest road through the old walled village. Saw numerous cars driving through the old part with cameras mounted on hoods. Famous for its hanging houses.

R34 if you want to see a very dirty European city go to Paris. Go to different parts of Paris and not just the touristy parts and you'll see how dirty that city is and how it's worse than both Rome and Barcelona are.

Americans always tell me the people in Madrid are rude and cold, whereas Barcelona residents are friendly and inviting. Many claim people in Madrid are racist.

I found the emotional chilliness of Madrid to be more akin to that of San Francisco than the other American cities it has been compared to in this thread and Barcelona to have a similar friendliness and, perhaps, dangerousness as New Orleans.

I find the Madrilenos very cold and yet very horny, always demanding sex.

The Andalusians are warm and welcoming into their hearts and beds.

[quote]Americans always tell me the people in Madrid are rude and cold, whereas Barcelona residents are friendly and inviting

If you're going by stereotypes, many in Spain will tell you they are trying to figure out how to make money from you. Catalans will (allegedly) stick a knife in your back while smiling in your face for a few euros.

What about Lisbon? how does it compare to the major Spanish cities. Sketches of Lisbon anyone?

Personally, I agree with those who said that Madrid is the real Spain. Besides the obvious that they speak actual Spanish, Madrid is the historical and cultural center of Spain.

If you want to learn about actual Spanish artists and history, go to Madrid. The Royal Palace is in Madrid, and there are so many wonderful nooks and crannies to explore.

The Puerta del Sol is fun, and actually pretty gay. There are also a lot of nice tapas bars and restaurants, and there is beautiful architecture all around the city. And the people are impeccably dressed.

Barcelona is a very touristy, Mediterranean Riviera type city, that is more laid back and sleazy.

It really depends on which type of city you like bettter. Sort of like San Francisco versus LA. Personally, I prefer San Francisco.

[quote] Spaniards treat you just fine.

Except if you are Latin American or black. Then Spaniards are extremely racist. (See link)

All the interesting artists I met were in Barcelona. Madrid is like Chicago.

Was the woman being attacked black or South American, R53?

I am confused why you posted.

Sorry R54, but Madrid is nothing like Chicago. Not even close. I would say that Madrid is similar to Mexico City, but you just have to experience it for yourself. It's a very elegant city.

r56, I've been there. It reminded me of Chicago, a town of lowbrow snobs. I found nothing at all elegant about it. Mexico City is definitely classier and more fun and has an interesting art scene.

[quote] Was the woman being attacked black or South American, R53? I am confused why you posted.

She's Ecuadorian, and she was attacked because she is a latin american, whom many Spaniards feel are "inferior."

The point was merely to highlight that Spaniards are not as enlightened or as tolerant as people think.

They discriminate against latin americans, and they make ape noises and throw banana peels at black soccer players.

This should not be acceptable in any society, and it has to stop.

I could never stand the food in Spain.

Spent a summer touring Spain, plus Portugal and Morocco, once.

I preferred the colors and beaches of Portugal.

Liked Madrid a lot, the palace, the Prado. Found the swanky area near our embassy the second go-round when I had to return after I lost my passport in Avila.

Loved Sevilla, with its river and white buildings with beautiful tile work.

Liked the walkability of Toledo and Cordoba and the latter's Cathedral with Moorish remnants.

REALLY loved the Basque region, even the craziness of Pamplona! The Festival of San Fermin is not to be missed! Found a balcony at 4:0 a.m. to watch the running from. Even found some off-the-beaten-path cave-painting sites.

North Atlantic region was the best. And hey---at least I know where my "Santander" bank is really located!

Wasn't crazy about Spanish food, felt sad for the mangy stray dogs, and REALLY was shocked, because it was unlike how I had learned it in school, at how GUTTURAL Spanish is as spoken in Spain!

Not Spain, but Andorras is a complete mess, with a main street of garish electronics stores.

I returned many times to the UK, Germany, and France; never to Iberia (yes, Michener's influence when I was a kid motivated my visit) Once was enough.

Also visited Cuenca; truly charming.

Alas, though I had imagined it was going to be the highlight of my trip, I was underwhelmed by the Al-Hambra. Can't explain it. Maybe it was its immediate surroundings.

Spaniards have a reputation as very racist.

One thing I love about Spain and latin Europe is there are no fucking shrieking girls! The women speak from the diaphragm unlike here in the States with the annoying nasal whiney voices that take over a room.

What about the voices of the gay men, misogynist at r63?

Someone please translate what this Spanish woman is saying to this black person on the bus. She's going off!

And you thought the British were the only ones...

[quote]And you thought the British were the only ones...

I don't think anyone thought the British were the only ones, just because a couple of youtube clips that went viral.

I was in Lisbon for three days over Memorial Day weekend. Very, very pretty city; hilly like hell. Tons of 16-17th century tile on everything. There's not a ton of must-see places to visit, but for general people-watching and cafe-going it's very pleasant.

The Portuguese are a bit, well, dour; if you speak a little Portuguese they're much nicer. Quite a few Brazilians and Africans (Angola or Mozambique?) working in Lisbon.

Fado is definitely an acquired taste.

The Bairro Alto district on weekends is interesting. Dozens of bars with enormous crowds of milling drunks. The line between gay & straight bars blurs a bit.

Madrid is a lovely city of confectionery architecture, the upper stories piped and carved like grand wedding cakes and with great diagonals and vistas. The men are well put together on the outside and dirty (in the best kind of way) on the inside.

Cordoba is very nice, and the Great Mosque fantastic, though the city has too many ugly modern intrusions.

Seville is my favorite city, gorgeous, scented with orange blossoms, and nearly perfect, with amazing architecture and surprises everywhere.

Granada used to be a bit scruffy but has improved considerably. The Alhambra, though, is one of a handful of greatest places in the world, beyond all (high) expectation and other worldly, actually.

Great album!

R64, not misogynist at all. I just have a low tolerance for screeching American women.

OP, I was in Madrid this past summer, well.. last year anyway. I loved it! I didn't know what to expect, but I was pleasantly surprised. Gorgeous architecture! It was easy too get around too, very good metro that even goes out to the suburbs, and it's cheap too. The food was fine, if you're into food, you should probably go to Italy or France instead. The food wasn't bad per se, but nothing great either. The men were gorgeous! And I just love the Castillan Spanish, it's much more charming than South American Spanish. I think Spanish in Spain sounds more sophisticated in a way than Spanish from Latin America. But enough about that, moving on..

Madrid has some of the best museums in the world! I went to the three most popular museums, the Prada, Thyssen-Bornemisza and Reina Sofia. You have to check these out if you're interested in art. The art was really incredible.

I also liked the park called Parque del Retiro, literally a "park for retired people". It was charming. It wasn't exactly Central Park important, but it's worth a visit imo. It was quaint, and had some nice attractions. The park is in walking distance of the Prado museum too.

The Royal Castle is something you can't miss. You're not allowed to take pictures inside, but wow, what an impressive building! HUGE and gold everywhere!

Also for the gay tourists - Chueca is the gayborhood of Madrid. It's easy access by the metro, you take the metro to Chueca, and viola.. you're in the middle of the gayborhood. Rainbow flags everywhere, saunas, gay bars, gay friendly restaurants etc.. everything you would want. The gayborhood is not big, it's small and charming, but it does have some amazing gay bars. To be honest, Madrid doesn't really need a segregated neighborhood for gays and lesbians, because we are accepted. Spain truly accepts EVERYONE for who they are. I saw many gay couples in Madrid, nobody looked weirdly at them, nobody even looked their way, because it was so common, guys holding hands and kissing was normal, in all parts of the city, not just in Chueca, and I agree with OP, Sol is pretty gay.

Also.. the people were not cold or racist at all.. WTF?!?! They were really nice to us. When we were lost they just came up to us and asked where we were going, and they explained the way. Every Madrileno I met was really nice and friendly. But they do speak VERY little English there, even at the airport in the cafeteria etc.. it's best to bring with you a Spanish dictionary.

Needless to say.. Madrid is in the middle of the country, so don't go there if you want a beach vacation. Still, Madrid is really nice in summer, sunny every day with very little rain. It was 88 degrees on our coldest day and 93 degrees on our warmest day, this was in July, but bring a coat, because it can get chilly in the evening. Madrid may not be at the Mediterranean, but it still has gorgeous surroundings with the mountains that you can see in the distance. You have a wonderful view of the city from the Royal Castle.

Otherwise.. not much else to say other than it was a fairly clean city. Some neighborhoods were dirtier than others, but that's to be expected in such a big city. It was generally clean, at least it was everywhere we went. Madrid has pocket thieves just like Barcelona, but I never felt threatened or anything like that. Madrid is a safe city with a low crime rate. I can imagine Barcelona is worse in that aspect, when it comes to stealing, since it's more touristy. What I actually liked about Madrid was that it was kinda like a hidden gem, not too touristy, but still so much to do and see! I think Madrid is highly underrated, it's a very beautiful city. I was very impressed with the city and I miss it terribly. That's how positively surprised I was by it. I even enjoyed just walking down Gran Via, just to look at the buildings, interact with the people, and do some shopping. Gran Via was a lot of fun, I added a video of it.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with Madrid, there's much to do and see, the people are nice and it's just overall an amazing city!

I like Leon.

R71, Madrid Chamber of Commerce. Kidding. I agree with most of our sentiments. Madrid is overshadowed by Barcelona, that's fine with me. I am definitely going back.

For the tl;dr crowd, r71 likes Madrid.

I agree with a lot of what R71 said. I can see how Barcelona would more obviously appeal to tourists who are visiting and why it is the more popular city.

However I would take Madrid anyday.

In some ways I can see the Chicago comparison. In that Chicago is the "American" city while Madrid is the "Spanish" city.

Chicago has a beach scene! What it does not have is the Escorial, perhaps the most beautiful building in the world, in its suburbs.

This is probably as dramatic as Chicago's suburbs get. The Balaji Temple.

Who knew this thread was about Chicago?

All threads are ultimately about Chicago here, R78

Madrid and Barcelona Visitors, I'm doing both cities in the spring, can you recommend where to stay and any hotels????

How is does Madrid resemble Chicago even a little? Come on.

Don't listen to the idiot haters, R76. They try to insult Madrid by comparing it to Chicago.

People seem to LOVE Barcelona, and I do get it. It is a spectacular city, but then again.. it's not really SPANISH. It's Catalan. If you like Catalonia, the language, the culture, the people.. then that's great, and Barcelona is probably the city for you. But if you like Spain, the Spanish language, people and culture, then Madrid is the better city.

Spain is like Illinois

There IS an awful lot of Spanish spoken in Chicago.

Chicago is the city with biggest inferiority complex in the US. Third-city syndrome.

I don't see the comparison to Madrid at all.

Madrid is just like Boise!

Visit Madrid: The Akron of the Iberian peninsula!

Marbella is basically Peoria.

Anyone else like Bilbao and the Basque Country in general?

I like Bilbao but it is not a very pretty city, it is/was a very industrial city and it still shows. However, the Guggenheim museum, the old town are worth a visit. And then, there is the food. Also, if you are in the Basque Country try to go to San Sebastián, it is a gorgeous town with great food and great beaches.

Regarding Madrid and Barcelona, there is a reason why Barcelona is the first destination if you visit Spain. It is a great city, great people and so, so much to do. Also it is a great city if you are gay....

I like Madrid very much. I just traveled to Madrid last month and I think the city is looking pretty depressed (lots of empty shops...) If you like art, you cannot miss El Prado or The Sofía.

For people who have been to Madrid: Is it true they speak little English there? How did you get by when it came to speaking to people there? Do the younger people speak English? And are the people in Madrid nice?

I've been debating whether or not to go to Madrid or Barcelona, but from all the pictures I've seen, Barcelona looks kind of dumpy and I keep reading that most of the people there aren't even from Spain, but mostly tourists from other countries.

I have a friend from Bilbao who is Basque (pale with freckles!) and is probably the only Spaniard who hates seafood. One of the funniest people I know- loves to swear in English all the time.

R92 But does he know how to have a conversation in English?

R91, in Madrid, most hotel staff, retail staff speak English. In restaurants, the English is not as prevelant, but the host or owner will speak some, some waitstaff will too. Cab drivers not so much, we had 1 out of 5 speak English but you get by. Many restaurants have English menus too. The Brits are all over Spain so that helps. Like any places in Europe when they say my English isn't good, you can bet it's way better than your Spanish.

I really liked Madrid, it was beautiful and not dirty at all. I found the people to be pretty friendly.

R94 Thank you for that summary - it makes me feel better. I know ZERO Spanish - are there any phrases that you think I should learn before going? Also, what are the gay bars there like?

r95, not knowing Spanish should not prevent you from going but definitely learn a few phrases (at the very least):

Do you speak English? Yes, no, please, thank you, excuse me. Where is the bathroom, May I have the check, etc.

Those would be the first, but the more you can say the more you'll get out of your trip imho.

R90, go to Chueca, the gayborhood, there's enough gay bars (and saunas) there for you to enjoy. Some gay bars are outside of Chueca though, I would recommend you to pick up a Madrid gay guide.

And for you who said Barcelona has more to see.. maybe it does, I admit it, Barcelona has many amazing sites, but so what? Madrid is still an amazing and beautiful city, there's plenty to see and do in Madrid too, and especially if you like art. The museums are great. I liked the feel of the city, to go down Gran Via and do some shopping. I thought the people were really nice too. And I would recommend to get a small English-Spanish dictionary before you go. People know more English now than in the past, but you still come across those who know little or no English. I also recommend to take the metro, it's cheap, and there's metro stations all over the city. It's a fast and cheap way to get around.

[quote]Also, what are the gay bars there like?

Lots of variety. Madrid seemed a bit "stand and model" to me--the bars I went to there were small and almost boutiquey (with a particular theme or style: one was in a former tailor's shop, another had almost a street culture--rap and graffiti--type feel). The crowds were friendlier in Barcelona and the places bigger, more comprehensive and encompassing somehow imho.

Dark rooms are in many places (though certainly not all) probably because more people in Europe live with family/roommates and don't want the hassle of bringing someone home.

Not to deflate anyone's fun, but in some ways: It's the same tired gay scene all over the world. Really not that different in the end. The differences are less salient than the similarities anyway. If you're hot, young, and extroverted you'll have a good time and meet people.

R98 Oh shit - the gay bars in Madrid are "stand and model"? Is it as bad as NYC bars? Even though I'm young and look decent enough, I HATE all that stuck up bullshit. I really want to go to Madrid because I want to see the city, BUT I also want to have fun when I go out at night since there's nowhere to go out to have fun in the town I live in.

R97 In your opinion, did Madrid or Barcelona have better architecture? Because from what I see in pictures, Madrid's buildings look nicer (seeing history and architecture are important when I go to Europe).

For architecture, Barcelona is a must. You have many Gaudí buildings, the Old Cathedrals...

One of my architect friends has always told me that one of his professors always told them that to understand architecture they had to visit Barcelona before graduating.

[quote]For architecture, Barcelona is a must. You have many Gaudí buildings, the Old Cathedrals...

Really? I thought for sure Madrid would have the better buildings. I keep trying to find pictures of Barcelona architecture, but from what I see it's mostly a bunch of stucco shit.

[quote]Men: I had high expectations but from what I saw, nothing special. Bulges were conspicuously absent.

So do most of the men in Madrid have small dicks? I'm trying to learn all I can before I go!

Madrid was the capital. Madrid had the money.

R103, why don't you sample a few and report back.

I haven't been to Barcelona but the buildings in Madrid along the Grand Via and into the Salamanca district were stunning.

I have a friend who is moving to Chicago in a month. Shoukd I get her a Spanish/English dictionary as a going away present?

You'll find gay people in most places of Madrid. While there is a specific gay section if you want that, gays are pretty well integrated in Madrid similar to NYC.

[quote]R103, why don't you sample a few and report back.

Will do!

Coworker said she went to Madrid and found people their rude, cold, and racist.

Yes R106, there are more than 2 million Hispanics in the Chitown region.

[quote]Coworker said she went to Madrid and found people their rude, cold, and racist.

Is your coworker black? I've read on multiple sites that the people in Madrid are racist and rude and that they'll treat you like shit if you don't speak Spanish.

I used to want to go for the architecture, but not if the people are assholes (which seems to be the case).

That's ridiculous, the people are fine, it's like any big city, just busy.

d

A must see in Madrid is the Sorolla Museum. Lovely house where the artist lived. Also, the Museum of the Americas had a beautiful interior.

Madrid is a lovely city, and very underrated.

Art - the art was incredible. There's literally too many museums to visit, all world class too. If you're an art lover, Madrid is the city for you.

Food - the food was ok. If you're a food lover then Madrid is probably not for you. Spain is probably not known for their food, except maybe tapas and paella, and for good reason.

Nightlife/gay clubs - Nightlife is ok, gay clubs too. Gayborhood is Chueca, a stop on the metro line. The gayborhood is rather small and intimate. The gay clubs not the biggest, but still fun. That said, most of Madrid is VERY gay. You can see rainbow flags and gay stores all over the city, not just in the gayborhood.

Friendliness - most Spaniards I met were friendly, nice and welcoming. Not cold at all. That said, most Spaniards are not very good in English. In the tourist places you'll get by with only English. But generally it wouldn't hurt to learn just a few common phrases in Spanish before going to Spain.

Nature/climate - Madrid is extremely underrated imo. The location of the city is gorgeous, nestled between the mountains. I know nature is probably not what most people think about when it comes to Madrid, but I was very impressed with some of the views. I loved the views from the Royal Castle. Of course Madrid is in the middle of the country, with little to no water surrounding it (not even rivers). There's no beaches, but it's literally only a 3-4 hour train ride away if that's your thing. Just hop on the train to Malaga. It is extremely hot during summer, but it's a dry hot so it's fine, not as bad as lets say Florida. The temperature can drop in the evening though, so bring a jacket.

Tourist attractions - this is probably one of the few cons to visiting Madrid. You don't have the huge tourist attractions like in Barcelona. What you do have however is wonderful art museums, The Royal Palace and Parque del Retiro.

The men - the ones I saw were gorgeous. I don't agree with what you guys are saying. The men were hot as hell.

Do they make fun of you if you speak crappy Spanish? I'm conversant in Spanish but my accent is pathetic.

R116, no.. I barely know any Spanish. My friend that I traveled with did though, so she spoke Spanish with the locals. I think they just appreciate that you try tbh.

Thanks, R117

Madrid became capital in the sixteenth century but the Spanish empire remained fiscally decentralized until the nineteenth century. Seville grew wealthy from the Indies, and Barcelona from Spanish control of much of Italy, but Madrid only became Spain's "Paris" late in the game and by then Spain was relatively poor with a limited internal market and poor infrastructure. In 1900 there were just half a million people in each of Madrid and Barcelona. Today Madrid has 6.2 million, Barcelona 4.6 million.

I have been to Spain many times. I think the food is quite good so I am surprised at the comments. I loved Barcelona and stayed there 8 weeks. I also stayed in Madrid for half that amount of time. I could easily skip Madrid in the future. Many other great places in the country - the south is very nice.

It is a great country to visit and study Spanish.

ps. The hot men were not Spanish that I met. But the Spanish men are very friendly (and quite short - 5'7").

I spent a week in Palma and enjoyed it very much. The food wasn't memorable. The people were warm and friendly. It's very relaxing and laid back.

I spent a week in Lisbon. Great city, lots of hills. Outstanding food. I went to a tile factory and got beautiful tile for the kitchen counter back home. Beaches in Portugal were wonderful.

I love Spain so much I'm dreaming of owning a property there!

If you have any rich friends, a lovely way to see spain on on a yacht docked in Marbella.

For a colorful excursion, go up the coast and visit Cadaqués for a few days.

If I read the thread correctly r122, it's like Chicago.

I've never met a puppy dog like Italian. Then again, I'm black. The fucking French are friendlier to me than the Italians.