She'd be 89, which is certainly an age that people live to. She'd probably be in a retirement home, and visited by her children and grandchildren . What would her life had been like had she got her act together in the 1960s? Would she have hosted SNL in the 70s, or been on The Love Boat?
Stonewall wouldn't have become the tourist hell that it is.
Momma's in the room next to me!
I imagine she'd be thinking, "How the hell did I end up in this coffin."
She would've had Olivia De Havilland's role in The Swarm.
Liza would probably have Lorna's career. And be really fucking boring.
Lorna would have Joey's career. And Joey would be tied to a bed somewhere out of sight.
[quote]Would she have hosted SNL in the 70
Betty White hosted at age 88 just last year. We could have had Judy!
She probably would've played Florida on Good Times.
Yuck. The woman had a serious expiration date.
And then there's...Judy!!
And then there's...Judy!!
And then there's..Judy!
And then there's.. Judy!
RIGHT ON JUDY!
Bea Arthur would have never happened.
She could have married David Gest and saved Liza the heartache.
The percent of people who live to be as old as 89 is relatively small. There is no guarantee that she'd be alive.
Do you mean that if she hadn't died, she might be dead by now?
Then Liza could call her Mommy instead of her AA sponsor (whom she calls Mommy)
R11, "IF". "IF she were alive", not "would she?" or "could she?" It's obviously unlikely that she wouldn't be, but what if she was?
Try to play along. It's a make-believe game.
It is NOT a make-believe game. It's a REAL game.
She'd be selling her line of Active Senior Fashions on QVC. And selling laxatives with "Clang-Clang (The Trolly Song)."
She would've been set to guest star on Law & Order: SVU as a wealthy, domineering matriarch, but would've had to pull out at the last minute due to "an ailment" and be replaced by Celeste Holm.
I would've loved to see her with Liza on QVC hawking their mother-daughter line of Boyfriend Jackets.
It's inconceiveable to even imagine her being alive now. If ever there was someone who was destined to die prematurely it was Judy Garland. She was one of those poor souls who are meant to die young, like Montgomery Clift and Marilyn Monroe.
If Judy Garland were alive today....
predictable and unoriginal gay men would have found some other irrelevant fucked up train wreck to obsess over.
[quote]It's inconceiveable to even imagine her being alive now.
Obviously it is conceivable, since other posters are conceiving of it.
R11= Steven Hawkings
Oops, I meant Stephen Hawking.
I was molested.
Falcon Crest. And boning Cha Li
So Judy gets her act together at 48, successfully goes through rehab and breaks her drug habit.
She makes a triumphant return to film as Nurse Ratchet in "Cuckoo's Nest," and finally wins her Oscar. In a canny career move, she next takes the role that would have been Beatrice Straight's in "Network," and wins her second, for Supporting Actress, the next year.
She's finally able to do Broadway, and replaces Angela Lansbury in "Sweeney Todd" when Lansbury leaves - and the show runs two more years.
Sondheim, inspired, writes a new musical for her based on the life of Sarah Bernhardt. Judy triumphs and adds Tony to her growing award stash.
Then she is offered any part she wants on "The Golden Girls," but turns it down to star in "The Rink," opposite her daughter Liza. When Liza's drug habits start impacting the show, Judy personally signs her in to the Betty Ford Clinic.
The movie version of "Sarah!" is made, and Judy collects her third Oscar.
In the 1990s, Judy, a beloved show biz elder stateswoman by that point, begins a long lesbian affair with Martina Navrotilova. She openly champions gay rights.
For her work with Kosovo orphans and refugees, Judy is awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, the first American performer ever so honored.
"Judy personally signs her in to the Betty Ford Clinic."
And stay in Judy's Betty Ford timeshare.
I like blue! Where's mama?
Would I still have been molested?
I'm afraid that to live to age 89, Judy would have had to get her act together earlier than the 1960's. By the time she was 40 she already looked as if she'd lived a hard life. If, however, she'd gotten her act together in the 1950's, say around the time of A STAR IS BORN, then living to age 89 might have actually been a possibility. Even better, let's say she got her act together while she was at Metro and completed all those films she started--Royal Wedding, The Barkleys of Broadway, and Annie Get Your Gun--along with those she should have done, like Julie in SHOW BOAT. Then her career in the fifties might have really meant something, with lots more movie musicals at different studios, as she would have by then been a free agent. Sigh. She would have done MAME on Broadway, like Jerry Herman wanted her to, and the film version of GYPSY, perhaps with Liza as Gypsy Rose Lee. There are many delectable what-ifs to this fairy tale.
[quote]"Judy personally signs her in to the Betty Ford Clinic."
Impossible. Judy campaigns for McGovern and he beats Nixon. No second term for Nixon = no Gerald Ford = no Betty Ford = no Betty Ford Clinic = no place for Billy Joel to dry out and he dies of alcohol poisoning in 1986 = "We Didnt Start the Fire" is never released = EVERYONE WINS!
Judy as Mame and Mama Rose really would have been something. A shame it never happened.
The OP is the epitomy of the truly sad stereotype that sets us back decades.
Judy as Mama Rose to Liza's Louise. Sing out, Liza.
Judy is not dead; she lives forever in our hearts.
R34, that would have been fantastic.
r36, only if you could by Liza as an attractive, curvaceous stripper...
"Obviously it is conceivable, since other posters are conceiving of it."
Oh, please. It's ridiculous to even consider the possiblity of Judy Garland surviving into her eighties. But in her last years she did LOOK like she was in her eighties.
She and Liza would be busy counting their gay husbands.
If Judy were still alive today, stem cell research would be a done deal.
Wow, what stick got up r38's ass? No one made you God, r38, and just because you don't want to play doesn't mean others don't. Just leave the thread, bitch.
I love all Judy threads. I just do.
I wish Judy had pulled her shit together after "The Pirate" and gone into high gear, doing all three of the films she was fired from, a number of those she was being thought of to do ("Show Boat", "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" "The Belle of New York") and add to those "The Band Wagon" which would have truly made it one of the best musical films ever, and the Anne Baxter role in "All About Eve" which seems written for her.
I think she would have been magnificent in "Network", and would of course been featured in a great Woody Allen movie. Her talent was unique and elevated every project she was associated with.
"Wow, what stick got up [R38]'s ass? No one made you God, [R38], and just because you don't want to play doesn't mean others don't. Just leave the thread, bitch."
Well, aren't you just the rude, cunty queen.
I feel sorry for anybody who has the misfortune of having to be in your presence for more than five minutes.
Face it, we'd all still be in the closet. Her death set us free that night. And don't buy into the revisionist history that "legitimate" gay historians have been trying to force down our throats for years about Stonewall having nothing to do with Judy. It was THE raison d'etre. I was there.
In a bit of brilliant stunt casting, she would have played Morrible in the original cast of Wicked.
Evidently r41 struck quite a nerve, control freak at r38/43: you completely deserve it for trying to be a thread shitter.
I like the way you think, R31.
Also, smell you R44!
I do find it hard to believe that Judy would have been able to find major-league work as the years passed. She was so staunchly part of the old-fashioned notion of showbiz, I feel like she would have been seen as a relic. Of course, she'd have an audience whenever she had a new project, I just think her years of mass appeal would have remained in her past.
If Judy had lived Lorna would have had nothing to talk about.
She could have toured and played Vegas with George Burns; she would have made the perfect addled-brained replacement for the late Gracie Allen.
If Judy had NOT lived, R49, Lorna would have had even less to talk about.
It could only have been as it was.
In her later years her way of speaking became so affected. What was that about?
Actually there was talk -- two hour TV version of GYPSY with Judy and Liza.
Joey 'have a banana' I like yellow L.
Perhaps Judy would have revealed whether she actually sang Somewhere Over the Rainbow for Frank Sinatra, with his load in her mouth.
Maybe a career along the lines of Elaine Stritch, singing "The Ladies Who Lunch" on Broadway in COMPANY, then a few quiet years in London, followed by a big comeback with TV guest roles, a hit one-woman show, and a few late-in-life turns on Broadway in musicals like A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC.
She was more Margo Channing than Eve Harrington, especially by that time.
One thing is certain. Had Judy had more survival skills and work ethic AND been able to truly kick the addictions, BROADWAY would have been her triumph post movie years. The movie musical died in the 60's.
Hell, Judy STARTED on the stage and where she was always the most at home. She would have had joined the ranks of Carol Channing, Ethel Merman and Mary Martin. SHE would have done the King and I or Hello Dolly or Mame or Follies or Sweeney Todd. Actually, Sondheim would most likely have written a show JUST FOR HER. As would Kander and Ebb and maybe even Comden and Green and Bernstein. JUDY should have been Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN, for instance, no matter how great Roz Russell was.
SHE WOULD HAVE DONE SUGAR BABIES WITH MICKEY ROONEY, instead of Ann Miller.
Alive today? She would still be singing and probably doing some sort of television comedy (like Betty White) or a one woman show of some sort, tailored to her age. I think Judy could have still packed 'em in, if she were alive and healthy. She loved performing too much to ever give it up, I think.
Maybe a Liza and Judy reality show like Ryan and Tatum. Cuz you KNOW those two would have had a falling out.
R13 where is this coming from?
I think Judy would have been perfect in just about any role that Sally Field has played; Norma Rae,Steel Magnolias, all of 'em: "I'll play 'em all and we'll stay ALL NIGHT!!!"
Judy would have been too old for those roles at the time they were made.
Sally was in her early 30s with Norma Rae, and she was 40 when she made Magnolias.
Judy would have been in her mid-50s for Norma Rae, and late 60s for Magnolias.
Judy never could've pulled off Nora Walker. One of the treats of B&S was Sally's 10:41 meltdown. With Judy in the role, every moment would've been some manic meltdown.
You're right, R64. I didn't do the math. Maybe in my fantasy, she remains only as old as she ever became in life, so she stayed about 47 and poor Liza became a living portrait of Dorian Gray (or is that a living portrait of Dorothy Gale?).
"Had Judy had more survival skills and work ethic"
She sure did produce a great deal for a woman with a bad work ethic.
R67: Judy did her best as an artist with MGM, strong husbands like Minnelli and Luft, or tough cut-throat managers like Fields and Begelman calling the shots. She had little sense of money, or how to manage her career alone.
In your defense, Mickey Rooney seemed headed for a bad ending as well, yet he's still alive. Perhaps Rooney was lucky that he was unable to maintain his major star status beyond his 20s.
John Fricke would just die!!!!!!!!!!
R68, those things have nothing to do with Garland's work ethic. She worked like a horse for most of her life.
[quote]Judy would have been in her mid-50s for Norma Rae, and late 60s for Magnolias.
She'd have killed it as Ouiser Boudreaux:
'm not as sweet as I used to be.
I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood 40 years!
I'm pleasant. Damn it! I saw Drum Eatenton this morning at the Piggly Wiggly, and I smiled at the son of a bitch 'fore I couldn't help myself.
Oh! He's a real gentleman! I bet he takes the dishes out of the sink before he PEES in it!
There. My secrets out. I'm having an affair with a Mercedes Benz!
would she and Patty Duke be friends?
Patty adored Judy and has said it in countless interviews about Valley of the Dolls. She pulls no punches and actually blames the film's insensitive,jackass director for Judy's problems on the set. Patty is a woman I would love to have on my side in a fight. I sorely hope she gets another crack at film stardom. She really should have been cast as Mary Todd in Spielberg's Lincoln. It's not like Sally Field is exactly box office. Maybe August: Osage County? Please God!
Judy would have been magnificent in the Kathleen Turner part in "Body Heat."
Judy would've ended up in car accident, have a stroke and had both her legs cut off while waiting to die.
she would be largely forgotten
She would have sung and done lots of Broadway until well into her sixties, at which point she would have started doing more dramatic parts in movies and tv. She would have at least two Oscars.
Had any or all of these things happened, she wouldn't be half the legend she is today. A healthy, productive, focused Judy would have been without the pain and anguish that brought a touch of genius to her performances. The line "Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it" could have been written about her.
If Mama were alive, she'd take me to the zoo...
if she wasn't having one of her little spells.
So if she had lived, and it were a just universe, so she'd done the film of Mame, co-starring Bea Arthur, would she have done Golden Girls too? And would Lucy's career have been better off because she wouldn't have disgraced herself?
These are the questions that keep me awake at night.
The Wizard of Oz will never be the same.
She might have also gotten Clarabelle in "Stone Pillow" which would've freed Lucy up to do "Dressed to Kill" (was first choice for Angie Dickinson part but had to pass because of scheduling conflicts with SP), "On Golden Pond" (also had a SP conflict), and "Fried Green Tomatoes" (was first choice for the role Jessica Tandy wound up playing.
I love Judy threads too. Well done, R26. Just for fun I will serve up something a tad different:
Following her harrowing recovery from alcohol and drugs, Judy vanishes from the public eye.
A few years later her book, SHATTERED RAINBOW is published. The book is a sensation and Judy becomes highly sought after as a motivational speaker. She sells out arenas and stadiums giving inspirational speeches; her audiences are comprised of not just gay men, but whole families, the desperate, the lonely, the outcasts of society. Judy's books, tapes, and videos (yese, even her exercise videos) become a cottage industry. When THE JUDY GARLAND INSPIRATION HOUR debuts on Sunday evenings, she becomes a near cult like, televangelist figure to millions. Her popularity and wealth exceed her wildest dreams. She closes every speech with OVER THE RAINBOW, backed by a 300 voice male chorus. When the AIDS crisis hits, she instantly champions the cause, raising record shattering amounts, and building hospitals and clinics.
Despite her sobriety, however, her personal life remains turbulent. She struggles with obesity and at times balloons up to 250 pounds. A brief marriage to Marlon Brando is a disaster and is quickly annulled. Although she employs her two younger children, Lorna as a "backup singer" and Joey as a grip, she is inexplicably estranged from her oldest daughter Liza. Liza is seldom seen and is said to be living in Taos New Mexico; an occasional grainy tabloid photo of her pops up once in awhile.
Although something of an enigma, Judy for years remains a unique figure on the American landscape. She is awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor by then President Clinton, with whom she is "very close friends." She travels everywhere by private jet escorted by a crackerjack team of gay militia. She lives in a fortress like compound high in the Rocky Mountains. She is accompanied everywhere by her close personal assistant, Oprah Winfrey.
(that's the best I can do, this morning, kids--enjoy!)
I am always surprised when people bring up Judy Garland for "Mame" or "Gypsy." To me, she was totally wrong for both roles.
Also, for many years (until Lansbury) "Gypsy" was identified with Merman. The Merm's friends, like Garland and Mary Martin, would never have played Rose while Merman was alive.
The thing is, it's not like they've invented some sort of revolutionary treatment for addiction that might have saved her, if she'd only survived long enough to get it. You only have to look at Liza to see that.
She would have been great as the lead if they'd made a film version of the musical "Applause".
Judy wasn't meant to be alive to 89. She was meant to be the shooting star that burst into a supernova and then went dark.
Her talent was too hysterical and enormous to contain over a long period of time. That was the key to her talent.
Judy was a seasoned addict by the time she was 18 years old. She already knew how to store pills for later use and was willfully abusing everything.
Given the lack of knowledge about addictive behaviors and her constant need to perform to make a living, there is not much anything could have been done to save her back then. She would have had to retire for at least five years to get well and that was impossible for her.
I agree r60.
To think she could have been one of the Golden Girls.
I wouldn't want her as part of the Golden Girls ensemble.
She was best just by herself, with the microphone. Herself and the audience.
Dear, loony r84 - "Fried Green Tomatoes" started filming in June, 1991, so it would have been Lucy's desiccated, cigarette smoke-ridden corpse performing the role.
She wasn't offered any of those roles, and you know it. It's your usual meme.
Wasn't it Lucy's desiccated, cigarette smoke-ridden corpse that did "Mame"? So what's the difference?
We're just lucky that Vivian Vance didn't play Vera Charles.
R82, in what universe did Lucille Ball, THE most beloved,most recognizable and most influential tv star on planet Earth, disgrace herself by doing MAME? Surely, it was a misstep, but to define her by that one project is ludicrous, ignorant and insulting.
R86, You're surprised to see Judy associated with Mame? Jerry Herman, the composer says he wrote his music with Judy's voice in his head. Also was willing to pay all the costs of her taking over for Angela Lansbury, costumes, etc. even for one performance. Sadly, her doctors said she couldn't even make it through one performance.
The ardent defense of Lucille Ball strikes me as an example of the inexplicable intensity of some of the discussions here. Who cares what invisible strangers think?
R90 there was a period when Garland's mother seriously considered taking her out of the business and back to Minnesota.
R96: Garland was very witty and sophisticated in real life, but not as a character in movies (with one 20 minute exception). Judy in "Mame" may be a good idea for myself and other gay men, but almost certainly not for the general public in the 1960s.
As concert dates dry up, Judy finds herself broke, again, and takes to staying with friends. These stays usually last a few weeks before her she is politely asked to leave. In 1976, she rekindles a friendship with Hedy Lamar, her costar in Ziegfeld Girl. The two go on a shoplifting spree arcoss the nation. Judy is ultimately arrested, but her bail is paid by Marlon Brando. A brief marriage to Marlon Brando is a disaster and is quickly annulled. (r85 had it correct). In 1984, Judy makes headlines again when she is identified as the driver in a hit-and-run incident, in which a young Hally Barre is injured.
Look at this clip of the pre-Oz Judy. She's about 14 or 15 here, and utterly self-assured. Compare this to the frail, jittery mess she was ten years later. If Judy had never started on uppers and downers in the first place, we would have had a strong, sure performer for many years to come.
I bet she would have had a featured role in the recent muppet movie.
Thank God she isn't! I'd have to push her around in a wheelchair and change her diapers.
I watched "The Judy Garland Christmas Show." The "Glee" parody was spot on. I am surprised that Garland lacked the skills to be a good host. Her nervous chatty conversations with the guests were painful to watch. And everyone says Judy was witty and fun in real life...strange.
But, I am glad the show is on DVD. It was nice to see Joey seem normal and happy, given what his life would eventually become.
She'd have sung "Losing My Mind" in the film of Follies, with Ann Miller singing "Who's That Woman?", Joan Crawford (and her dubber) singing "I'm Still Here", Heddy Lamarr "singing" "Ah, Paris", Nancy Walker singing "Broadway Baby" etc.
It seems likely that we'd hear "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" a bit less often.
She blew the lyric, incidentally -- or the lyricist did. Makes no sense that "faithful friends who are near to us will be dear to us once more." If you reverse "dear" and "near," THAT makes sense.
A retirement home, OP? How many stars end up in retirement homes? Pretty unlikely.
"But, I am glad the show is on DVD. It was nice to see Joey seem normal and happy, given what his life would eventually become."
What exactly did his life "eventually become", r105
Joey is not as bad off as the posters here claim.
He's actually a very sweet down to earth guy. Lives by himself in a townhouse that was paid for by Liza. But he's completely independent.
She would have taken AnnE's part in Les Mis and won her gazillionth Oscar for it.
Real truth: a dozen of overdoses prior to the one in 1969 should have killed her. It's amazing that it happened as LATE as 1969, and she could barely function anyway. And her voice was destroyed beyond repair.
-- In the 1970s Judy Garland ruins her film career by becoming a regular in disasters films such as The Towering Inferno and Airport 1975 (in the Helen Reddy/singing nun role) followed by too many appearances in episodics such as the Love Boat and Fantasy Island when money because a desperate issue.
-- After a stint at Betty Ford's, she spends most of the 1980s and 1990s on Broadway, salvaging her legacy in such terrific shows as "Sugar Babies", "Gypsy" and "Follies" (singing I'm Still Here") and working tirelessly for NY AIDS charities such as Broadway Cares.
-- In 2007, Garry Marshall makes the inspired decision to cast Judy as Lindsay Lohan's grandmother in "Georgia Rule". Garland has glorious reviews and Hollywood prepares to finally award her with the Oscar that eluded her for so many decades. However, in one of the biggest upsets of all time, AnnE Hathaway ends up winning (for Rachel Getting Married) ... the fury that ensues causes the long-delayed Stonewall Riots to happen after all.
-- In 2010, Judy and her daughter Liza end up on a very special season of "Dr. Drew's Rehab".
-- In 2013, refreshed and inspired by her amazing experience working with Ms. Garland, a clean and sober Lindsay Lohan wins her first Oscar when she, not Hathaway, is Fantine in the "Les Miz" ... Hathaway is more than OK about this as she wins her 2nd Oscar (this time for "Silver Linings Playbook"). The DL has to shut down the website for 2 weeks following the online chaos that ensues on this site.
The perfect storm, R114. Not bad at all.
r114, she actually would have lost to Marion Cotillard in La Vie en Rose. Rachel Getting Married came out in 2008.
Judy's reaction would have been: