Why You Shouldn't Donate to the Salvation Army Bell Ringers

Many LGBT people are rejected by the evangelical church charity because they're "sexually impure."

http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php



• Can we stop the anti Salvation Army posts especially when so many people are in need? It's really offensive and selfish.

• Amen!

  Anonymous

• What's offensive is the thought of supporting virulently homophobic organizations when there are other, far more deserving charities, R1. BTW, are you LOST?

• Get the fuck back to million moms Facebook crowd R1. They hate us, why shouldn't I hate them.

• [quote]Can we stop the anti Salvation Army posts especially when so many people are in need? It's really offensive and selfish. R1. The Salvation Army is really offensive and discriminating to the LGBT community. So when The Salvation opens its heart to everyone, then I'll change--and not until. However, if you'd like to give to those in need, there are countless organizations who don't discriminate and who could use your donation. But not The Salvation Army.

• I don't waste the energy to hate them, R4, but I recognize their homophobia and thus choose other places for my donations.

• R1, no, we can't stop. You're a fucking moron. There are plenty of charities to give to that aren't supporting right-wing hate groups. Fucking wake up and engage your brain for a change before posting such assinine stupidity.

• If you give to Salvation Army, you are a [italic]horrible[/italic] person.

• I gave them $100

  So%20there.

• You might as well just hand the money to James Dobson personally. Money donated to any Evangelical Church (Salvation Army, World Vision etc.) comes right back to the Gay community as hate money. The WEA (World Evangelical Association) takes 12% off the top.

• Thank you, r9. Not everyone here is hateful I guess.

  R1

• R1, R9. You can give to other groups who don't preach hate. Don't expect any support here because you decided to bend over and get fucked by a group who hates you. Go tell The Salvation Army that you're gay and see their reaction or see how you're treated--after they've taken your money.

• Don't feed the trolls.

• I give them gaybucks, but I'd rather knock over their pot and mace them.

• I seriously doubt poor hungry people give a damn about the distinctions being made here. To paraphrase Elaine May: “It’s a moral issue…so much more interesting than a real issue.”

• People quote 'The Beverly Hillbillies'?

• I don't donate to any charities. They are all frauds.

• If you are looking for a secular charity to donate to that does amazing work, may I suggest Doctors Without Borders ( Medicins Sans Frontieres) If you'd like to help "family", consider donating to PFLAG or the Lambda Defense fund this holiday season.

• Who helps the pore?

• I started the thread about this last week that got deleted and seemed to bring a flood of gay haters onto it. It needs to be said: the Salvation Army is a homophobic organization. If you have the means to give to a charity, then be generous. There are many other worthy organizations that don't ask who you sleep with before they help you. I have given to the Rainbow World Fund; Doctors Without Borders (as mentioned above); and directly to shelters which help homeless queer young people.

• The fact that the Salvation Army helps those in need takes precedence over politics. People are hurting and they need all the help they can get.

• Bullshit. What part of there are other charities do these trolls not understand? This isn't politics. The Salvation Army is a bigoted organization. If they were anti-black people or anti-women this wouldn't even be an argument. Hate and bigotry is not politics or a disagreement. It is hate. GIVE YOUR MONEY ELSEWHERE.

• The point is that the SA WON'T help some people who come to them asking for help. Not something Jesus would do, by the way.

• The Salvation Army will not help a homeless same-sex couple. And that is the sad truth. There are many charities that help the poor that do not discriminate, including Goodwill and Habitat for Humanity. Please donate to them.

• Total lies r24

• [quote]I seriously doubt poor hungry people give a damn about the distinctions being made here. Poor hungry gay people care when they are turned away. I have personal knowledge of an SA facility that provides beds for homeless people and a kitchen that serves three meals a day, and gay people in need have to stay in the closet to get services there. There have been more than one incident in which another homeless person outed a gay person to get him thrown out so the bed was available to someone else. They also have volunteers there from among the homeless, and they are coveted non-paying jobs, because being a volunteer means you get to stay inside and work at a relatively easy job in air-conditioning in summer and heat in winter. And there have been volunteers who were outed and lost not only their bed and free meal, but also their job. And yes, it's in a shitty town in a shitty red Bible-belt state, but if the SA didn't discriminate against gay people, it wouldn't happen, even there.

• Sadly, it's the truth, R24. "I've seen the discrimination the Salvation Army preaches first hand. When a former boyfriend and I were homeless, the Salvation Army insisted we break up before they'd offer assistance. We slept on the street instead and declined to break up as they demanded."

  http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php

• When a couple called Salvation Army to take away substantial donations of good household items for their store, they were told - when the truck arrived - that SA didn't take donations from "your kind." Find someone else to donate to. Lots of people need money from "our kind" these days.

• I really do not understand the virulant salvation army defender on DL. We are not saying don't give generously to charity. We are saying be wise about WHICH charity you give to. Perhaps there's a high level SA "general" in the closet, posting on DL?

• R29, what's not to understand? There are on this board virulent Republicans, racists, straight men, straight women, Christians, and lots of people who either dislike gay people or are ambivalent to us. The old days when this was a gay site and the only Republicans were gay, the only straight people were gay-friendly, and the only Christians were either gay or gay-friendly are over. This is now a place with a substantial number of haters, and it should not be a surprise that some posters here don't care about discrimination against us at all. And then of course there are also trolls who just like to post anything that gets a rise out of some of us.

• i guess

• Food for Jesus......no you have to declare Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior first, no...? OK starve then.....

• r32, that has long been the modis operandi of many christian charities. they in fact USE 'charity' to proselytize,

• [italic]On its webpage, the group claims that "the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation." While the words are nice, their actions speak volumes. They blatantly ignore the position statement and deny LGBT people services unless they renounce their sexuality, end same-sex relationships, or, in some cases, attend services "open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline." In other words, if you're gay or lesbian, you don't qualify.[/italic] Uh, this makes no sense. Where's the evidence that they deny their services to gays? I'm suppose to believe this guy by his own personal experience? This means the entire Salvation Army denies services to gays and lesbians? Bitch please.

• [italic]Poor hungry gay people care when they are turned away.[/italic] How on Earth do they know that someone is gay?

• Oh go back to the Free Republican R34/35. DL is a gay board.

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2011/11/25/salvation-army-red-kettle-lgbt-community_n_1113358.html

• If you remain closeted, and pretend to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, I am sure they can be most helpful.

• Every time I see/hear a bell-ringer, I want to go up to him/her and say, "I have nothing against you personally, but I'm proud to be a lesbian and you're not getting any of my money." Any other retorts come to mind, gentlemen?

• [quote[How on Earth do they know that someone is gay? When the gay person tells them, say, by showing up with their partner and seeking help as any other family would, or just by revealing pertinent facts about their life, such as living situation, relationships and support (or lack of) from their family. I also wouldn't put it past a fundamentalist Christian charity worker to just ask the question, if they suspected someone was gay. "How on earth" does anyone find out anyone else is gay? Why is it so difficult to wrap your mind around this? Many gay people don't hide who they are. And no, it's not "shouting it from the rooftops". It's communicating with people about who you are and what your situation is, like any other straight person does a billion times a day. Do you believe gay people should closet themselves when seeking help? Do you believe gay people should be held to an unequal standard in the eyes of charitable organizations? If a straight person seeking help from a charity can be expected to talk openly about their families, relationships and living situation, why can't a gay person? I can't imaging you questioning "how on earth" they might know someone is straight.

• Any tax free organization should be banned from practicing discrimination.

• I love r39.

• I give $20 to the toothless, alcoholic bell-ringers who the Army (the Army) uses to pull in their homophobic millions) and tell them that I don't approve of the Army because I'm gay, and the money is for them alone to do what they want with, since they're obviously being used. And they shove it into their pockets and say, "God bless." And it feels like a real blessing. I HATE the homophobic organizations that idiots here insist on throwing at us as somehow good. Yes, the devil does all sorts of wondrous things in your little book, assholes. Bread is nice. But calling a good or at least neutral thing (being gay) bad is a mark of evil in the world.

  Here%27s%20to%20a%20Bless%2C%20Salvation-Free%20Christmas

• [quote]Any tax free organization should be banned from practicing discrimination. I agree, and this should apply not just to charitable orgs, but churches as well.

• Sign me up, R43. That's why it's so laughable when Ron Paul says that universal health care isn't needed because Americans can rely on their churches and communities for aid. Not when they're free to discriminate. Fuck the Salvation Army, I give elsewhere.

• "They hate us, why shouldn't I hate them." They don't "hate us", dear. Your paranoia is extreme. Get some help. "The Salvation Army will not help a homeless same-sex couple. And that is the sad truth." No, that is a sad LIE. There are rabid Salvation Army hater trolls who always pop up this time of year. To hear them talk, you would think the Salvation Army is the epitome of evil. Of course they aren't. They help ANYBODY. Repeat: they help ANYBODY. And here again is their position when it comes to gays: "There is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse. In keeping with these convictions, the SERVICES OF THE SALVATION ARMY ARE AVAILABLE TO ALL WHO QUALIFY, WITHOUT REGARD TO SEXUAL ORIENTATION. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline." Of course, the haters will scream: "it's lies! Lies! They hate all gays! They hate gay homeless people! They hate gay people with AIDS! They won't help gays! They want to KILL gays! The Salvation Army is evil, I tell you! EEEEEVIIILLLL!" But don't believe their bullshit. As the haters have proved many times, they are not credible individuals. THEY are the ones filled up with hate and intolerance.

• R45, quoting their own website is hardly convincing. What do you expect them to say? Even NOM doesn't admit to hating gays on their website. There have been links provided in this thread where people cite specific examples of the SA discriminating against gay people in providing services. They are all lying, in your eyes? The gay people are all lying. The Salvation Army, which even you must admit, discriminates against gay people in hiring, is telling the truth. Right... And you're sounding hysterical, btw.

• Thank you, r45. Bravo. It's astonishing to come on this site and see such vitriol towards a really beautiful and wonderful organization. Shame on you. I don't need to come here and read this filth.

• There are a lot of options to donate to, that do not hate gays or have to give 12% to the World Evangelical Association. There is no need to give any money to the Evangelical Christian organization called the Salvation Army. May I recommend SECOND HARVEST, who give all of their donations to the poor and have no religious affiliation. P.S. TOY MOUNTAIN is one of the many fronts the Salvation Army hides behind.

• What is wrong with you R45/R47 ? There is a long and detailed history of the bad treatment gay people have received at the hands of the Salvation Army. It has been a documented problem for YEARS. How can you care so little for you own people? And if you aren't gay then please kindly go the fuck away. This is a messageboard for gay people, if you think gay people have a right to be discriminated against you don't belong here. And really? Why do we give a fuck what their website says. It's their ACTIONS that speak louder than words, Focus on the Family will also claim they don't hate gay people.

• R47 I think we'd all be better off if you didn't come here and read this filth.

• I am guessing you guys give a lot to the Salvation Army every year without doing your homework and now you are trying to defend your actions instead of admitting you got duped. It's okay, your heart was in the right place. Just give to a group that actually deserves it in the future.

  R49

• amen, r50. r47 is literally insane.

• R45 and R47, please go away.

• Then go somewhere else, r47. I am SO sick and tired of the freeper fraus trolling here. Go back to iVillage or Weird Nut Daily, ok toots?

• I think, as frightening as it may be, that r47 is actually gay.

• R9 and R11 are the hateful ones, giving money to a hate-group that promotes ignorant bigotry against American Citizens. R45, take a pill. You're clearly deranged. If you wish to keep on supporting a clearly and vocally anti-gay organization, more power to you (however pathetic that is). Sane people, and people of conscience will give their money to better, more open, more accepting, more positive organizations that don't perpetuate ignorance, hatred, or bigotry.

• R47 has to be a troll. Nobody could be that clueless.

• Maybe the Salvation Army has become like an Evangelical version of Scientology, which would explain R45

• Perhaps. Perhaps they have workerbees trolling the net.

• I agree you should not give a nickel to the SA because of their homophobic practices, however, take that money and give it to your local soup kitchen or pantry. There is much need in your community - allow your spirit to make another choice and fight hunger.

• I think many of us do that, r60, but it's always nice to have a reminder.

• If you have the cash, donate money to the poor by all means. Just don't give your money to the anti-gay Jesus freaks, so they can take credit for your donation and get political power from doing that - which they will turn against the Gay community.

• If the Salvation Army were the blatant, openly discriminatory organization that the crazed haters say it is, if they truly and consistently deny assistance to people because of their sexual orientation (or their race, or their religion or lack of it) then you can bet your ass that it would be widely reported in the media. But it hasn't. Maybe that's because they DON'T discriminate and provide help to anyone, regardless of what they are? But I'm sure the haters will say that somehow there's a conspiracy going on that keeps the evildoing of the gay-hating SA under wraps. Another thing...all this talk about gays going to the Salvation Army for help and not getting it. Well, not everyone, gay or otherwise, who goes to the Salvation Army for help CAN get it. The reason is that a charity does not have infinite means to provide everything to everybody. They do the best they can for people, but sometimes the resources just aren't there. So if the stories of gays who don't get help from the Salvation Army have any truth to them, the lack of assistance has nothing to do with their being gay. Of course, the haters will dispute that. They'll say the SA makes people fill out a questionare in order to find out if the persons requesting help are gay or non-Christians, so they can weed out the people they're willing to help from the ones they reject. Sounds crazy, doesn't it? But that's the type of thing the SA-hate trolls want you to believe. I have just two things to say to the haters. 1) Enough with the insane lies and slander and 2) if you don't like the Salvation Army then don't fucking donate to them. Well, here's a third thing: please do SHUT THE FUCK UP!

• Amen, r60. Wonderful local organizations which offer unconditional support such as Urban Peak here in Denver are a few clicks away. Local & direct is the way to go. With less bureaucracy, a higher percentage of your assistance ends up reaching those in need.

• R63, if the thread upsets you, by all means don't read it, but unless you're the webmaster here, you don't control who can post and what we can say.

• I suggest we listen to at least part of R63's advice: "don't fucking donate to them." Well said, R63. :-)

• r63 has an agenda, that much is clear.

• "R63 has an agenda, that much is clear." And the haters DON'T? Their rants sure as hell suggest that they do.

• Rants? Haters? Pot, kettle, R68.

• Sometimes we need reminding. It has been quite a few years now, but at Christmas a gay group in the Village collected over $20,000 in toys for underprivileged children, and donated them to the Salvation Army. The next day they were asked to come pick up their donations, because "we don't accept gifts from people like you." The bell-ringers are generally nice, innocent, ignorant people. But their church is hateful.

• [quote]They'll say the SA makes people fill out a questionare in order to find out if the persons requesting help are gay or non-Christians, so they can weed out the people they're willing to help from the ones they reject. Sounds crazy, doesn't it? Doesn't sound crazy at all, given the numerous, confirmed media reports of SA's anti-gay, racist antics.

• Fuck off with your lies r70. R45 and r47 speak the truth and are brave to stand up to the despicable slime spewing their lies about the Salvation Army. If you don't want to donate then don't. But please stop polluting this board with your lies and dictating to others how they spend their money to HELP THE LESS FORTUNATE!!!!!! We are in a fucking depression you disgusting fucking queens. People are hurting. Stop it.

• R72 is not just a self-loathing homo, he is probably a freeper and needs to go back on his meds.

• R45, r47, and r72, there are plenty of worthy organizations that don't discriminate. Goodwill is another example. If you want to donate to the Salvation Army be my guest. However, I will not support an organization that would not help me if I were in need.

• R72 is one of the few sensible people on this thread.

• Then don't r74. That's what is great about living in a free society. You can choose not to donate.

  R72

• And if you want to choose to give to an anti-gay hate-group, then you're free to as well. And we're free to call you out as a horrible person for doing so, because you are, no matter how much denial you engage in.

• Keep fucking that chicken r77

• wtf?

• Why are people insisting we MUST support the Salvation Army? It's literally a CHURCH, and a fundamentalist Christian one at that. This is a gay website. Fundamentalist Christians hate gay people. To those of you possibly confused on that point, please make a note of it. There are plenty of worthy charities to donate to that don't (literally) preach a gospel of exclusion and shame to gay people. There are secular charities, charities run by churches that are inclusive of gay people, and, of course, actual gay charities. A gay group in my city organizes a huge toy drive each year at this time. A local gay bar had a food drive before Thanksgiving. There are multiple options for giving, it's doubtful anyone is going to go hungry or gift-less this Christmas because someone gave to another charity besides the Salvation Army. So odd that many on this thread are so stridently pro-Salvation Army, and I do suspect it's a concerted effort following an agenda. How do these people find us? So many right-wingers here these days, it's depressing.

• It IS depressing, but it means you should keep posting, r80. Don't give up!

• [quote]If the Salvation Army were the blatant, openly discriminatory organization that the crazed haters say it is, if they truly and consistently deny assistance to people because of their sexual orientation (or their race, or their religion or lack of it) then you can bet your ass that it would be widely reported in the media. Why would we "bet our ass" it would be reported? Many things go unreported for years, especially when it concerns a conservative Christian organization. Hello, Catholic Church?? If a poor or homeless gay person was denied help by the Salvation Army, it's very possible, even probable, that they wouldn't contact the media. Such a person would already be quite marginalized and powerless, possibly not in the best health (including mental health), and more concerned with issues of immediate safety and well-being, like food, shelter and healthcare. And "the media", often in the form of an assignment desk drone acting as gatekeeper, is not always sympathetic to tales of woe from homeless OR gay people. You're quite naive to assume otherwise. [quote]But I'm sure the haters will say that somehow there's a conspiracy going on that keeps the evildoing of the gay-hating SA under wraps. The "haters", in your immature vocabulary, are the majority of this thread and this message board: gay people, at least the ones who are politically aware. And no one is claiming a "conspiracy", other than the standard secrecy, deflection and misinformation which most conservative denominations practice. [quote]...all this talk about gays going to the Salvation Army for help and not getting it. Well, not everyone, gay or otherwise, who goes to the Salvation Army for help CAN get it. The reason is that a charity does not have infinite means to provide everything to everybody. They do the best they can for people, but sometimes the resources just aren't there. So if the stories of gays who don't get help from the Salvation Army have any truth to them, the lack of assistance has nothing to do with their being gay. I'm sorry, what?!? You're saying that it's normal for a charity to tell some people, "Sorry, can't help you. We're broke, out of food and clothing (in your size), have absolutely no resources to help with your particular problem(s), and no related or auxiliary organizations, other branches, or outside agencies that we can refer you to. Have a nice day!" Really? Really. Perhaps you imagine gays are flooding the Salvation Army with requests for penthouse condos and designer wardrobes? To my knowledge, SA offers food, clothing, shelter and employment assistance for those in need. They're a huge international charity pulling in millions a year. I've seen reports on local TV stations (frequent this time of year) where they profile a local chapter and they always show the huge stockpile of food, like a mini-supermarket, and the racks of coats and clothing for donation. I'm sure it's not easy to keep such an operation going, and the need will always outpace giving, but It's a little difficult to imagine a situation where they would completely deny a person in legitimate need because the resources "just aren't there".

• dayum.

• The more people give to organizations like the Salvation Army, the stronger Evangelical Christianity becomes.

• Salvation Army is a sad organization. Half of those bell ringers are stealing the cash anyway. They used to be worthy, back in the 1960's.

  Don%27t%20give%20them%20a%20dime

• The "Salvation" itself is enough to keep my ass away. I really hope R47 is a joke posting. If so, I laughed pretty well thinking of a cubefrau typing away. If not, then you really don't "need" to come here at all... so kindly fuck off.

• "If a poor or homeless gay person was denied help by the Salvation Army, it's very possible, even probable, that they wouldn't contact the media." If the Salvation Army was in the habit of denying help to gays or anyone else it sure as hell would be reported in the media. To say that it wouldn't be is pure paranoia. It's a very high profile charity; if it was discriminatory it would be a big news story. "I'm sure it's not easy to keep such an operation going, and the need will always outpace giving, but It's a little difficult to imagine a situation where they would completely deny a person in legitimate need because the resources "just aren't there". So you think the Salvation Army can provide every single person that asks for help with shelter, food, clothes, etc? You think they can do that? I daresay they do the best they can, but the SA isn't a bottomless pit of provisions for the needy. Have you ever heard of homeless shelters that are FULL? Have you ever heard of food banks that have been so depleted that they have to turn away people? No, I guess you haven't, since you appear to believe that the Salvation Army has the means to give everybody everything. They don't.

• Hate hides behind charity.

• They are somehow making money from our prison system. If people go to prison, it's good for them.

• [quote]They are somehow making money from our prison system. If people go to prison, it's good for them. The Republican agenda.

• [quote]So odd that many on this thread are so stridently pro-Salvation Army, and I do suspect it's a concerted effort following an agenda DUH?!?! Yes, of course it's a conspiracy. The SA bellringers have invaded DL and are gradually seizing control of the threads. SA officials are known to spend about 95% of the funds they receive in those little red kettles hiring and training foreign agents to infiltrate DL... I read that on a blog, and I'll find the link in a little while. I have to go now, because the black helicopters are over my house again.

• You're beyond asinine, R91. This is a gay website. Are you gay? Why are you here? Fundamentalist Christians like the SA do not like gay people. This is known and a matter a record, and don't quote back their "policy" to us. Openly gay people aren't interested in hearing how they need to closet themselves and remain celibate to be "in good standing". It IS odd that a gay website attracts so many SA defenders. Again: are you gay? Why are you here? Are there any other threads you post in?

• Who IS r87, really? Male? Female? Gay? Straight? Questioning? Fat? Thin? etc.

• People who rabidly defend anti-gay groups, like the Salvation Army, do so like bunny rabbits blinded by the light. Logic does not work with these people, who are so ultra brainwashed in the name of a Skyfairy.

• Boy this charity is extremely homophobic... I'm glad I don't donate to them.

• Or, R94, they collect a paycheck from the PR firm they work for that was retained by the SA to "promote its image online."

• Bingo. Any good PR work includes promoting brand-positive talk online. It isn't paranoia that posts you see here and elsewhere online is coming for someones PR.

• And R91 is probably one of them. Deflect, obfuscate and deny, deny, deny.

• "You queers are going to hell!"

  William%20Booth%20from%20Heaven

• .

• And how many of you will be giving money to the DNC come next spring? Or a political candidate? Just curious.

• Your point?

• Why is this offensive thread still here?

• Because, PR shill, no matter how many times you post all over this thread, you're not convincing anyone that the Salvation Army isn't a criminal enterprise run by smug, self-righteous bigots tarted up as a "charity." Fuck them, and fuck you.

• Go get bashed r104

• F&F for you, R105. Leave this forum and don't ever come back.

• It's been quite a while since we had such a pugnacious and puzzling troll as this salvation army defender.

• , "you're not convincing anyone that the Salvation Army isn't a criminal enterprise run by smug, self-righteous bigots tarted up as a "charity." The Salvation Army is a "criminal enterprise?" Goddamn, you are one crazy son of a bitch!

• I agree, R107. And R106, I agree with you as well and wish the troll would listen.

• huh? You make no sense, r109.

• R109 makes perfect sense. What word aren't you understanding, dear?

• Agreeing that r104 should go get bashed is NOT agreeing with r107. Care to explain?

• Liberals are very good at telling people what to do.

  Leave%20me%20the%20fuck%20alone%21

• Okay, let's recap for the reading comprehension challenged. First, R107 posted this: [quote]It's been quite a while since we had such a pugnacious and puzzling troll as this salvation army defender. And R106 posted this: F&F for you, R105. Leave this forum and don't ever come back. About what R105 said, which was this: [quote]Go get bashed R104 Okay. That's the history. Then R109 said they agreed with R107... that it HAS been quite a while since we had such a pugnacious and puzzling troll as this salvation army defender. Then they agreed with R106, that the poster who said "Go get bashed" should be F&F'd, and should leave the forum and not come back... because using "gay bashing" terminology in a gay forum isn't acceptable, ever. So, I'm struggling to figure out why you're confused. It's all very straight forward.

• R113, no, Liberals are very good at recognizing good behavior and calling out bad behavior. Conservatives are very good at bad behavior, and then trying to rationalize it, and then whining when they get caught.

• my bad. for some odd reason i thought r109 was agreeing with r105.

  r112

• the Salvation Army raised my Dad when his father abandoned him and his mother could not cope. They were there with food and shelter for years. they are religious. don't donate if you don't like it, but consider the good they have done

• There's plenty of intolerance, hatred and homophobia within the gay so-called community. Why should I worry about the Salvation Army? Let's clean up our own house before we continue condemning others for the condition of theirs.

• Nice try r118.

• Please don't feed the freeptards.

• [quote] if you don't like the Salvation Army then don't fucking donate to them. Did you somehow miss the title of the thread???

• r117, they have done good things. For straight people. Are you saying it's ok to discriminate against gay people as long as straight people are getting something out of it?

• "Did you somehow miss the title of the thread???" I think the point is that if you don't the Salvation Army then just don't donate to them, and shut the fuck up with all the lies and slander and insane accusations against them.

• What lies and slander? Nothing said in this thread is untrue. Linking to their PR website verbiage proves NOTHING. Linking to peoples' actual negative experiences and anecdotes is way more convincing.

• Fuk them and the bells they obnoxiously ring.

• [quote]and shut the fuck up with all the lies and slander and insane accusations against them. Lies and slander? Here's what we know about the SA: 1) They are a conservative, fundamentalist Christian church that runs a charity. This means they take the bible literally and believe that gay people are, at best, damaged goods. 2) They expect gay people to closet themselves and remain celibate, in order to be "right with God". They do not support gay relationships, partners or families. They believe that acting on a gay orientation is sinful and strongly preach against it, like every other conservative, fundamentalist Christian church on Earth. ***Just an aside, R123 and the rest of the SA defenders: do YOU agree with their stance I just explained above?n Do you agree gays should closet themselves and remain celibate? 3) They are on record in multiple instances as being against gay marriage and equal rights for gay people. Examples: -They opposed a law in New York that would have forced them to offer benefits to same-sex partners and threatened to close all their soup kitchens if it passed (that's what Jesus would do, right?) -They cut a backroom deal with the Bush administration to deny funds earmarked for charities to states that prohibit anti-gay hiring and discrimination. -They actively lobbied against gay rights legislation in the UK and New Zealand. ALL of the above is a matter of record. These are facts publicly acknowledged by the Salvation Army, available to anyone with the intelligence to conduct an online search. Now what was that about "insane accusations"? Pot, meet kettle. It's pretty clear to the majority which side sounds saner in this argument. Some more facts: SA isn't the only charity in the world that helps the poor and needy. There are dozens if not hundreds in every corner of the US, run by affirming and accepting churches, secular groups and (YES!) gay organizations. There is no reason to believe that boycotting the SA hurts poor people, because there are multiple alternatives to supporting this bigoted, backwards church that stands against equal rights. The only conclusion to draw, given these facts, is that the people stridently defending the SA against all this clear-cut evidence must be conservative, fundamentalist Christians themselves, or else seriously ignorant, mindless buffoons. One last fact, in case some of you missed it on the way here from wherever you came from: DATALOUNGE is a gay website, for gay people, the vast majority of whom are to the left of the political spectrum, and committed to living open, honest and affirming lives of integrity. Take your closet case mentality (if that's where you're coming from) and kindly shove it. If you're just a garden variety homophobe, you can also fuck off.

• Summary of this thread: The Salvation Army is horribly homophobic. A few people on Datalounge are also homophobic. A few people on this thread are defending the Salvation Army. End of thread.

• I have told several bell ringers why I prefer to give to other charities. There's absolutely no reason to support the SA if you want to help those less fortunate.

• r127, what's YOUR damage? Stop posting on this thread and it will stop being active. Why do you care if we engage a troll or two about a relevant topic this time of year?

• [quote]consider the good they have done Yes, and Hitler was an animal lover and a vegetarian.

• "Nothing said in this thread is untrue." You're full of shit. PLENTY that's been said on this thread is untrue. If the Salvation Army was the demonic organization you hysterical queens claim it is it would have been put out of business a long time ago. All this Salvation Army hate seems like a form of hysteria, like the "Satanic panic" that was so prevalent during the eighties. Yes, that must be what it is: some form of dementia that overcomes some highy suggestible individuals during the holiday seasons.

• But they are Satan, they are Satan in Santa clothes. Please, the hateful churches are still reeking havoc on us, nobody has put the brakes on them. SA is an extension of their skewed philosophy. No dough from me, bro.

• Damn, R131. By your logic, the Boy Scouts are no longer in business, having gone to court to fight for their right to be homophobic. As well as having been exposed for countless episodes of rampant pedophilia. Likewise the Roman Catholic Church, the Southern Baptist Church, and every other fundamentalist church that, like the Salvation Army, includes homophobic policies among their bedrock tenets. What alternate universe do you live in, 131, or maybe I should what drugs you're on, that make you think homophobia is not acceptable to most people in mainstream society in the US?

• Damn

• Hard to say no sometimes, seems like they are in front of every store!

• Print up fake gay money, with a message on it, from your computer, R135 and put it in the box, so the brainwashed SA members will have to read why this is not a real $10.

• I hate those fucking bellringers. I just walked by one and she looked like she'd rather be anywhere else. I also hate anyone else who sells/solicits in front of a store. Fuck, leave me alone. I'll donate when and where I see fit and I don't want to be confronted at traffic lights or in front of stores. Didn't Target get a bunch of shit for banning them?

• "What alternate universe do you live in, 131, or maybe I should what drugs you're on, that make you think homophobia is not acceptable to most people in mainstream society in the US?" Hon, your paranoia is really getting out of hand. Homophobia does still exist, but you see it around every corner and that is definitely not healthy.

• Is this your homework for your "ex-gay" therapy, SA troll?

• I refuse to give money to those panhandlers.

• This thread is so incredibly offensive.

• You're repeating yourself, R141. Move along.

• [quote]Print up fake gay money, with a message on it I love this idea! I'll copy a bunch of twenties, write on each one, "GAY DOLLARS you could have received" to keep in my wallet!

• r141 is offensive/

• They start too early anyway.

• The only thing incredibly offensive about this thread is all the posters attempting to shame gay people into supporting a homophobic church that actively lobbies against gay rights.

  R126

• Exactly r126. THAT is offensive, and quite frankly, inexplicable.

• Nobody is shaming Gay people into supporting a homophobic church. Shame does not work when being used by anti-gay bigots. Anyone who supports the Salvations Army is an anti-gay bigot - CASE CLOSED! The entire Gay community is on board, with full support from the Gay media, like Advocate, Washington Blade, Xtra, Stonewall UK etc. etc. Grow a pair! R143 has the right idea.

• In Canada, religious groups can get dispensation from anti-discrimination laws (i.e. catholic church discriminating against women as priests). The Salvation Army has not applied for that dispensation with regards to gays, in fact they have enshrined gay equality (and same sex benefits) in their employment policy. Go figure?

• A lot of cool straight people are getting it too, but still plenty of people have no idea how anti-gay SA is.

• [quote]Nobody is shaming Gay people into supporting a homophobic church. Have you read the thread? Plenty of posters are attempting just that.

• Attempting and succeeding are 2 very different things. Visit a Jenny Craig meeting to find proof of this.

• bumping as a reminder....

• R149...you're a liar. And completely nuts. Put your dollars elsewhere, folks. There are a million charities. It's just not necessary to support these homophobes.

• 149 is a liar. 154 is a sage. Which would you rather follow? A liar or a sage?

• "Anyone who supports the Salvations Army is an anti-gay bigot - CASE CLOSED!" You are a pathological hater of the Salvation Army and you need to get help - CASE CLOSED! "149 is a liar. 154 is a sage." 149 isn't a liar. 154 isn't a sage. You are an idiot.

• An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Choose battles carefully. If ANY of that Salvation Army money gets to people in need, I will donate. As a gay man, I can make my "difference" in a lot of ways. But withholding a few cents dumped in a bucket to feed or clothe or help anyone in need on this planet because the sponsoring organization is not fully on board with MY line item political and legal demands for gay rights is NOT HAVING MY PRIORITIES IN THE RIGHT PLACE. I am quite sure that starving children and people with no heat do NOT need to suffer further so that I can marry my partner and live in the burbs with him. This thread is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. To quote the Bard.

• Until the Salvation Army issues a statement explaining their supposed anti-gay discrimination policy, all the hateful comments here will be treated as anecdotal.

• Several years ago, there were gay dollars online that you could print out to put in Salvation Army kettles.

• Here is a sheet of gay dollars to donate to the Salvation Army.

  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/sisterstalk/gaydollars.jpg

• r157, you can still help the poor. Give money to a local shelter or charity that doesn't descriminate.

• exactly

• r161, you never really "know" who will, ultimately discriminate, no matter WHAT the public policies and pronouncements of the agency of the organization are. That money gets filtered through a lot of channels, sometimes murky. The best way to help people is DIRECTLY. There was a great story about a wealthy real estate investor in the NE who does just that. It was on CBS Sunday morning today. Heartwarming story just perfect for the holidays. He goes right TO 'em. He put a poor family who were living in an uheated trailer in a nice furnished apartment. No agenda, no need for the PR except to show more people out there that this can be done. And the family were so appreciative. And it doesn't matter what the family DOES with that gift. It was the charity, the spirit of giving and helping that matters most. Always. That "eye for an eye" stuff? GIVING A HELPING HAND LIFTS US BOTH UP.

• Jesus freaks always make excuses for hate. As Gay people have to live with the hate, we are not so forgiving of this bigotry.

• You are missing the point.

• Hate is more powerfully promoted, when coming from people who frame themselves as helpers to the less fortunate. Drug dealers also do this, by giving out free turkeys at Xmas, so soften their image. They don't promote they are drug dealers while giving away the free stuff, but everyone knows.

• R158? You're living in denial. Just stop.

• The free turkeys are eaten and appreciated no matter WHO they come from. So it doesn't really matter the motive or the background of the giver, does it? A "good deed" is a good deed. The eyes of charity are blind.

• My parents donated to Doctors Without Borders this year, instead of The Salvation Army. I would donate too, if I only had the money.

  Poor%20student

• r169. then maybe someone needs to give YOU a little help this year, honey. And then once you are out of school you can pay it forward. Your generosity of spirit comes through your post.

• It is not a good deed R168. It is evil trying to soften it's image for the sole purpose of self preservation - to be allowed to continue its evil ways. That is why it makes a BIG difference where the turkey comes from.

• Bullshit, r171. The needy who GET the turkeys (or whatever help they get of whatever kind), don't really give a shit where the help comes from. I guess if the poor can afford to be picky ("I simply will NOT take food for my starving family from you, mister drug dealer! It's against my principles!") then okay. How often do you think that happens?? The question is, WHO GETS HURT by the drug dealers giving FOOD TO THE POOR? Think it through. I mean, do you think charities do a background and character evaluation on those who donate?

• You can give $$$ to a better charity than SA. That is the point, r172.

• l

• I promised myself I would never take any of this out on the bellringers, who aren't necessarily directly involved in the cult's bigotry. But the (normal for me) act of wishing them 'happy holidays' is now being answered with anger: i.e. "it's CHRISTMAS and it's the SAVIOR's BIRTHDAY!!" Screw 'em.

• Where do you live, r175? Are you exaggerating?

• Arizona, R176, and I've been on friendly terms with...while never giving to...the bellringers at the post office where I go daily and at a grocery store. Clearly, with this year, we're into the era of push back on the non-existent 'war on Christmas.' Sad, really.

• There are plenty of other charities to give to this time of year. I don't know why the crazed SA defenders can't fathom this. Give to a charity that doesn't actively fight against your equal rights.

• yes

• I've given the bastards a grand total of $1.94 this year. Sue me.

• The Salvation Army's Red Kettle bell ringers have become a truly iconic part of the holiday shopping season. However, many lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) rights advocates are now calling for shoppers to skip the donation buckets due to the organization's conservative view of homosexuality. "The Salvation Army has a history of active discrimination against gays and lesbians. While you might think you're helping the hungry and homeless by dropping a few dollars in the bright red buckets, not everyone can share in the donations," Bil Browning notes on The Bilerico Project. "The organization also has a record of actively lobbying governments worldwide for anti-gay policies -- including an attempt to make consensual gay sex illegal."

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2011/11/25/salvation-army-red-kettle-lgbt-community_n_1113358.html

• I can't imagine why any gay person, or any person who knows and loves gay people, would ever donate to these anti-gay assholes, when there are so many other options available.

• Salvation Army = Hate Group

• timely bellringing bump

• Finally!!! the General Public is starting to wise up to this Hate Group. Donations have dropped 31% this year.....69% to go......

  http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1105001--salvation-army-daily-bread-fall-short-on-holiday-fundraising%3Fbn%3D1

• Finally!!! the General Public is starting to wise up to this Hate Group. Donations have dropped 31% this year.....69% to go......' It's the ECONOMY, stupid! People just can't afford to give as much. Don't you know that, you idiot? As for the "General Public" wising up...well, the kettles have been getting things ilke gold coins and jewelry. Somebody dropped a $2000 diamond ring into one of the kettles recently. So obviously there are people who disagree with your "hate group" assessment. The Savation Army a "hate group?" You nutjob Salvation Army hating freaks need to get professional help from a good mental health clinic.

• Doctor, heal thyself. ^^^^^^^^^^

• The economy is always the excuse used to cover up real problems, General Motors used it for years as does Netflix now. No other major charity is down 31%, just he Salvation Army. It has nothing do to with the economy. The exposure of this hateful organization is finally paying dividends.

• I've given them many thousands in the past and will continue to do so. You will not tell me how to spend my money and how to help people.

• Theres no fool like a stubborn fool. Continue to breed hate for yourself then.

• I sense no hate from them at all. They are a loving organization and they accept me.

• I do need to say that I completely respect those people who do not give to the SA. My experience may have been very different then theirs and I do not judge you at all. I completely respect and understand your stance.

  189/191

• You're pathetic, R186. You haven't convinced a single gay person on here, and you never will, even if you're abetted by some weird-ass troll playing both sides and stirring up rancor. As much as I loathe people like you (and I do, every bit as much as you loathe us), I would never spend my days posting hate-speech on one of your illiterate kkkristian sites. What the fuck happened to you to damage you so badly?

  or%20should%20I%20not%20waste%20my%20pity%3F

• Are you gay, R188? Why do you come to a gay website and proudly proclaim your support for a fundamentalist Christian group that fights against gay rights? There are multiple charities that help those in need at Christmas and throughout the year; there are multiple alternatives to the Salvation Army for anyone looking to donate something at this time of year. Why do you so stridently insist on supporting an anti-gay group above all others? What's wrong with Goodwill or the Red Cross or any of probably dozens of local charities in your neck of the woods? My city has a gay group that does a toy and clothing drive. A gay bar near me collects can goods, like millions of other small businesses and community organizations do this time of year. I'm sure there are many similar examples near you as well, including churches and religious charities that are welcoming and affirming of gay people and their relationships. You should check some of these groups out. The random posts popping up proclaiming the Salvation Army the one and only charity to give to at Christmas time seem so out of place on a a gay, largely progressive website like Datalounge. I know we have our right-wing oddballs but this particular agenda is very strange.

• I think R194 means "are you Gay R186" Obviously not, Christians Gay bashing on DL is a regular Christmas tradition. It happens every year.

• ?

• 1. When New Zealand considered passage of the Homosexual Law Reform Act in 1986, the Salvation Army collected signatures in an attempt to get the legislation killed. The act decriminalized consensual sex between gay men. The measure passed over the charity's objections. 2. In the United Kingdom, the Salvation Army actively pushed passage of an amendment to the Local Government Act. The amendment stated that local authorities "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship." The law has since been repealed, but it led many schools and colleges to close LGBT student organizations out of fear they'd lose their government funding. 3. In 2001, the organization tried to extract a resolution from the White House that they could ignore local non-discrimination laws that protected LGBT people. While the commitment would have applied to all employees, the group claimed that it needed the resolution so it "did not have to ordain sexually active gay ministers and did not have to provide medical benefits to the same-sex partners of employees." After lawmakers and civil rights activists revealed the Salvation Army's active resistance to non-discrimination laws, the White House admitted the charity was seeking the exemptions. 4. Also in 2001, the evangelical charity actively lobbied to change how the Bush administration would distribute over $24 billion in grants and tax deductions by urging the White House deny funding to any cities or states that included LGBT non-discrimination laws. Ari Fleischer, White House press secretary, issued a statement saying the administration was denying a "regulation sought by the church to protect the right of taxpayer-funded religious organizations to discriminate against homosexuals." 5. In 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city's decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees.

• "As much as I loathe people like you (and I do, every bit as much as you loathe us), I would never spend my days posting hate-speech on one of your illiterate kkkristian sites." I don't loathe gays. I loathe stupidity and untruth and you and your crazed ilk personify it. You are truly fucked up and I don't even want to speculate on how you got that way. "No other major charity is down 31%, just he Salvation Army. It has nothing do to with the economy. The exposure of this hateful organization is finally paying dividends." Oh, so donations are down because people are so upset about how mean the SA is to all those poor gays. It DOES have something to do with the economy. It has everything to do with the economy. You just don't know what you're talking about, do you?

• thanks, r197.

• Everything at R197 sounds like propaganda designed to make people hate the Salvation Army. I think it's a safe assumption that it's mostly lies with a kernel of truth here and and there. The statement "the organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight" especially sounds like horseshit. What did the Salvation Army do to not treat gays "equal?" Of course that's not revealed. Probably because it never happened. I hate liars. And there are SO many of them on this thread.

• You are the only problem on this thread R200.

• Why are we still discussing this? Especially during this beautiful Holiday season when so many people are in need. I have always donated to them and I will continue to donate to them. That is is how I have chosen to help the needy. Your constant negative posts aren't going to change anyone's mind.

• The Salvation Army shill comes on here to call us all liars? Is that the best you have, shill? What an amateur.

  Tarquin

• You are going to miss your Focus on the Family meeting R202. This thread is just a reflection of what the mainstream media taking about. The Advocate, The Toronto Star, the Huffington Post likely have a combined readership of 40 million people. They are responsible for bringing massive attention, this year, to the Salvation Army's long history of homophobic bigotry. DL is a fly on the wall compared to these guys.

• To those of you who still believe the Salvation Army is not homophobic, read this comment: [quote]I used to be a Salvationist, uniformed, in the band, in Corps Cadets as an honour student, in Songsters, Sunday School teacher and Youth Group member, but then my sexuality surfaced. Once they found out I was Gay, liked Fantasy novels and games like D&D etc. they were all over me. I finally had to leave as I just could not take the pressure any longer. I do not, nor will I ever, give a dime to this organization. Work had a campaign for casual Fridays where you paid 2 bucks to dress down. When I found out the money was going to Sally Ann I withdrew. As a result of this experience I am now very happy as a Pagan believer and will never go back to the Christian faith. Actually, once you do a serious study of comparative religions you discover they are all the same at the core anyways. It is just how they are practiced that is different, or what man-made rules they follow. And before the Christians start going on about my being gay think on this. God made me just as He made you. How do you know, I mean really truly know, that He didn't intend for me to turn out Gay? Before you start quoting scripture, remember it was written by man with political agendas and also contains scripture dictating that Thou Shall Not Judge.