Target employees protest midnight opening on Black Friday
A Target employee is protesting the Minneapolis-based retailer's decision to open its doors at midnight on Thanksgiving, saying the demand on its employees is going a step too far.
Target said it would open its doors five hours earlier this year for Black Friday shoppers eager to hunt for discounted gifts. But Target employee Anthony Hardwick says that's unfair to employees who want to celebrate Thanksgiving with their families.
More than 6,700 people have signed his petition on advocacy website Change.org, calling for Target to reverse its decision. Hardwick, who works for Target in Nebraska, hopes to get 50,000 signatures.
"With the midnight opening, employees like myself will have to leave for work right in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner," Hardwick said in a statement. "We don't mind hard work, but cutting into our holidays is a step too far."
Target is among several retailers that plan to open at midnight on Thanksgiving, including the Mall of America and Macy's. Target said it is opening earlier because guests have said it wants the retailer to be their first stop for Black Friday shopping.
In Denver, Target is opening its 29 stores from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. on Thanksgiving Day. According to a news release, this test in the Denver area will help the retailer decide whether to open in other markets on future Thanksgivings.
Target spokeswoman Molly Snyder said the retailer will pay employees who work on Thanksgiving with holiday pay and its store leaders each year work with employees to accommodate scheduling needs.
"Target cares about the well-being of our team members throughout the year," Snyder said.
Wonder how long Anthony Hardwick will be employed at Target?
When I was young and worked at big box shitholes, I used to volunteer to work the holidays stocking shelves. With time and a half, it was almost like getting a livable wage for once.
I suppose it's better than not having a job at all.
[quote] I suppose it's better than not having a job at all.
I'm SO fucking sick of hearing that shit.
No, it's not better than not having a job at all. This is how we got in the mess we're in in the first place.
[quote]With the midnight opening, employees like myself will have to leave for work right in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner," Hardwick said in a statement. "We don't mind hard work, but cutting into our holidays is a step too far."
Ok I understand the protest but really how is going to work at 12:00 am cutting into your dinner. Most people eat holiday meals early like around 3:00. Am I missing something???
[quote] Ok I understand the protest but really how is going to work at 12:00 am cutting into your dinner. Most people eat holiday meals early like around 3:00. Am I missing something???
They will likely be required to be at work far earlier than midnight when the store opens, R6. And some do not eat dinner until dinner time.
Uh, YAH. YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING, R6.
This is disgusting. The Holiday season is really the worst season of the year. The fact that employees are forced to come in at midnight after Thanksgiving is pathetic, and so are the filthy fucking consumers who even shop at that hour.
And r6 sees nothing wrong with this. Fuck you, cuntbreath.
R6, are you aware that many people don't eat Thanksgiving dinner in their own homes? I know a lot of people who go out of town to visit with family and friends.
[quote]Ok I understand the protest but really how is going to work at 12:00 am cutting into your dinner. Most people eat holiday meals early like around 3:00. Am I missing something???
EMPLOYEES HAVE TO BE THERE HOURS BEFORE OPENING TO SET UP THE DISPLAYS AND PUT OUT PRODUCT.
This policy interferes with the God-given right to a Thanksgiving tryptophan food coma.
If only that fucking tryptophan would kick in.
I say the Target employees should be given tranquilizer guns. Shoot the stampede as they break down the doors.
What I am linking to is a blog of sorts where Target employees vent.
It has been around for a rather long while now.
Read some of it if you want to. Keep in mind that Target gives hourly employees once a year raises for under .20 cents or so.
Target sucks. I really think they do.
Cry me a fucking river. It's a JOB bitch, and there are plenty who would be happy tp take your place.
R6, the workers are probably required to be at work an hour or two before the shift starts, and depending on their commute they'd have to get ready to go to work a few hours before. So, yeah, this cuts into their evening. Not to mention, if they're expected to work all nigh, they'll want to get some sleep during the day. It's fucked up.
[quote] Cry me a fucking river. It's a JOB bitch, and there are plenty who would be happy tp take your place.
Then they're as stupid as you are, R14.
I'm working on turkey day and making double time and a half.
[quote]EMPLOYEES HAVE TO BE THERE HOURS BEFORE OPENING TO SET UP THE DISPLAYS AND PUT OUT PRODUCT.
So asshole that's still a 9:00 curtain call. try again. So if they eat at 6:00 they still have time to have their guts stuffed with food and still be at work.
[quote] So if they eat at 6:00 they still have time to have their guts stuffed with food and still be at work.
And when are they supposed to sleep?
If they have to be at work by 9PM then they will be working all night.
That's assuming they're at their own homes and not hours away, R18.
Americans in record unemployment, bitching about having to work late one night.
Yet you wonder why the Chinese are beating us in everything.
[quote] Ok I understand the protest but really how is going to work at 12:00 am cutting into your dinner. Most people eat holiday meals early like around 3:00. Am I missing something???
They can't get shit-faced drunk while watching football all day.
[quote]Yet you wonder why the Chinese are beating us in everything.
Right, we should emulate their business model.
WTF do you do for a living that you have such a callous and apathetic attitude towards your fellow citizens?
I am still boycotting Target due to their funding of anti-gay organizations. However, my response to all of this Midnight Madness and bargain stampedes is to boycott shopping at any of these types of stores, even online.
I understand the guy's point and hate the big-box poor treatment of employees, but the notion of having to miss some holiday time in order to work is ludicrous.
Not only do hospital employees, cops, firefighters, journalists have to work on holidays, but lots of employees at places like grocery stores, convenience stores, gas stations, restaurants, etc., work holidays, too.
I haven't shopped for anything on black Friday for years and I participate in the holiday shopping frenzy in the most minimal way possible.
And again, I hate Target and Wal-Mart.
But when that's the kind of job you have, it shouldn't be a surprise to have to work at inconvenient times.
While I am empathetic to the employees, this really makes NO difference to me as I am proud to say I have not shopped at target since the donation revelation/boycott began - and don't plan to start.
Where did you get 9pm? Did you misread "there" as "three"? Try 6 or 7. It takes a long time to get sales set up for Black Friday.
[quote]While I am empathetic to the employees, this really makes NO difference to me as I am proud to say I have not shopped at target since the donation revelation/boycott began - and don't plan to start.
Well, as long as it makes no difference to you...
Datalounge is shifting further to the right every day. Look at all the fucking sick freepers on this thread. I'm sick of this shit. Unsympathetic assholes, all you care about is being a fat cow consumer. Me, Me, Me, it's all about ME.
Aren't we gay people boycotting Target?
It isn't even just going to work on a holiday evening; it is THIS evening, preparing for the crazed shopping wolverines who have been known to KILL for their hoard.
[quote]It takes a long time to get sales set up for Black Friday.
Yes, they have to put out the 10 TVs they have at the super-duper-special Black Friday price.
R22 sounds like a FReeper shitstain.
As a former Target manager, I can tell you it sucks. The company used to niche itself away from Wal-Mart, but it's getting closer and closer each year. Here's the rough thing, especially for the folks in the Denver "test" market. 29 stores are open Thanksgiving Day from 8am-2pm. That means you're up at 6:30 or 7:00 am for work. If you're lucky, you're out by 2:15 or 2:30 and home by 3:00. With a midnight opening, many folks are right back to work at 9:00. Black Friday prep begins about 3 hours prior to opening. Not only does it involve staging product on both the sales floor and the backroom, but Target generally runs two national ads that week. One runs from Sunday to Wednesday, and the Black Friday ad runs two days. So you've got to make sure all the signs from the first ad are down, and then get all the signs from the second ad up in a very narrow time frame.
An already hectic week for leaders and team members is now even worse. You've now got about a five hour window at home to enjoy time with the family. If you're the primary cook in the household, forget about it. You must now rely upon someone else. And you can pretty much forget about any sleep. Not to mention Black Friday draws out hoards of really annoying, loud, ghetto shoppers. It makes for a frustrating time. Then there's the long slog to Christmas Eve. Then you get one day of rest followed by the insanity of the Day after Christmas clearance event.
If you're in a big box in early January, take a look at the employees' faces. Many will look pretty much like they crawled out of coffins. As an earlier poster mentioned, it's definitely the nature of the beast. Yep, I'm glad I'm out of that industry!
As somebody who is grateful to have his shit retail job, for those of you assholes who have never worked this kind of job just SHUT THE FUCK UP.
I am sick of you entitled assholes saying shit like these people should be happy they have these jobs. I can only wish you assholes having to experience working for next to nothing, under shitty conditions and having to make yourself available to these scumbag employers who want you to be available to their beck and call 24/7 seven days a week so they can sell their overpriced crap made in China that is responsible for putting hundreds of thousands of Americans out of work.
I'm sure non of you entitled asshole have any idea what it's like to have to be on your feet for 8 hours, unable to go to the rest room when the need calls and having to wait on shitheads like yourself.
When I was younger, we used to have a lot more holidays off. We've slowly lost many of them. These corporations keep taking and taking and workers are getting less and less. It's got to end somewhere. Now they want to take even more time from their employees so assholes can spend more time shopping, buying shit they don't need for people who mean nothing to them.
R36, I hope you have medical insurance.
R14 go fuck yourself times ten.
Yep, it's a job. American workers should be lucky to work anytime the bosses want (and for crap wages too.) Morons like you are why this country is on a one way trip to Third Worldism.
Next stop: they're lucky to have food, shelter, water, breath....
Oh and screw you too R22.
I'm sure the only sad part of this to you is that crappy retail jobs can't be outsourced directly to Third World Countries. That would show American workers what they're worth!
R37, are you that clueless. Christmas retail jobs don't provide health insurance. A very large majority of regular retail jobs don't provide health insurance since they won't schedule people full time while making them have a totally open schedule. Hours can be added or reduced at the retailers whim.
Yes, I am so grateful to be working like this. I should count my blessings. FUCK YOU.
The ones who come in at 6pm to do the set up -- are they getting double time for having to work on a holiday?
At my job we get Thanksgiving off but have to make up for it by working Saturday. Fuck that.
And some of you are fucking clueless. Retailers like Target don't pay overtime. They don't give part-time people holiday pay.
Many retailers no longer even offer an employee discount to Christmas help which was one of t he few perks.
R42, really? Why not?
The stupid fuckers need to suck it up. First, they're lucky to have a job at all in this economy. Second, it's retail -- did they not consider that they would have to work non-traditional hours when applying for these positions? Fuck them for being so ignorant and for being so blase about having a job.
[quote] At my job we get Thanksgiving off but have to make up for it by working Saturday. Fuck that.
I'd tell my employer to shove it.
I won't step foot in a retail store on Black Friday. I don't understand the whole thing. Why do people feel they have to shop on that one day? I do almost all Christmas shopping online now.
[quote]I'd tell my employer to shove it.
And move back in with your parents, right?
No, Fuck YOU R46.
I hope YOU lose YOUR job on Christmas Eve.
Black Friday has gotten ridiculous.
Seven am Friday morning should be the earliest they are allowed to be open. Nothing earlier than that.
And if you have ever worked in the retail business, you know the sales will be better in the weeks to come. Often they jack the prices up to begin with, so when they do their "discounts" it looks like a good deal.
I signed that petition. Target and others of the same ilk piss me off when they expect their low paid employees to work on a holiday like Thanksgiving. This is the one time of the year many families are able to get together and spend time with each other. I work in healthcare and I expect to work holidays, but I sure as hell don't expect Target employees to work Thanksgiving morning and turn around and work again starting at 9-10pm. Fuck you, Target.
There is absolutely no reason why any store needs to open at midnight on Black Friday.
People shopped for years without all this bullshit.
It's nothing but corporate greed, pure and simple.
Target gives .20/hr raises? Well damn, that's more than I've gotten working for Citibank in the last 3 years.
I think most of the assholes here are missing the point when it comes to the midnight shopping. There is nothing that can be bought at midnight that couldn't just as easily have been bought at 7 or 8 am. As the former mgr said, they've already started testing the idea of being open on Thanksgiving. It's pure greed and complete lack of respect for the peons who make them rich.
[quote]Target gives .20/hr raises?
That is the max for an hourly employee. It is usually well under twenty cents.
They only do employee evaluations once a year.
And Target does not pay over time nor time in a half at all to any of its hourly employees.
Thanksgiving at the DL house...
[quote]Fuck you, cuntbreath.
[quote]It's a JOB bitch,
[quote]the fucking sick freepers on this thread.
[qutoe]SHUT THE FUCK UP
[quote]shitheads like yourself.
[qutoe]go fuck yourself times ten.
[quote]Morons like you
[quote]Oh and screw you too
[quote]No, Fuck YOU
[quote]the assholes here
Try half time for overtime, it's common and not discussed.
No, R49. I own house free and clear. And my father doesn't live with me, and my mother is deceased.
Any other questions, cupcake?
I'd still tell my employer to shove it. I could get by just fine without a job.
Plus, on top of everything else, the "deals" are now pretty shoddfy, and in no way worth interrupted holidays, midnight openings, and stampedes.
these retail stores stick it to employees whenever they can. I hope the person who started this petition gets fired so he can sue their asses off in court. He better document every little thing because Target will go after him.
I think the employees should stick to their guns. Where do you draw the line? I wish shoppers would support them by not shopping until the early morning hours.
[quote]I hope YOU lose YOUR job on Christmas Eve.
Oh please. I was unemployed for three years, from 2008 to 2011. I survived on very short term temp work, and would have loved to have had a real job, even one that paid minimum wage. If I could've gotten one of these Target jobs, I would've loved it and I would've shown up whenever they wanted me to, even evenings and/or weekends.
Americans have become whiny assholes. There's goddamn worldwide depression going on, and Americans still manage to find shit to whine about.
I love you R56
Anthony Hardwick, who is not scheduled to work Thanksgiving night, is kind of cute.
That is all.
"and so are the filthy fucking consumers who even shop at that hour"
Exactly, R8. No big-box business, no Black Friday.
Shop local, and whenever the fuck you want.
I'll second that, r62.
Happy Fucking Thanskgiving, you fucking cunt-breathed freeper shitstains!
Also - quick, what did you get for xmas last year?
Don't remember, do you?
Hasn't the Black Friday thing gotten out of hand? It's so fucking stupid. I can't believe how many people actually are there so early. I guess with Target this year the shoppers don't have to get up early, they can just stay up.
If this is all about getting shopper into a particular store, one-upping the competition, why not just have Black Wednesday, while every other store is waiting for Friday.
As to the Target employee, that sucks. I hope they at least had ample notice. If their temp employees who were told beforehand, then big deal, they walked in with eyes wide open, but if it was a surprise to permanent employees, it's really lame.
Oh, boo hoo.
If someone working in retail is crying over having to work one night out of the year, then they should be glad that they are not waiting tables for a living and working until 2 a.m. or cleaning other people's filthy houses.
Jeez, what a drama queen. It's one stinking night.
There are plenty of out of work people who would be glad to take this guy's place.
It's Target. It's retail, not a 9 to 5 job. Black Friday is not a new concept and anyone working in retail knows what to expect. This protest is ridiculous.
r14 = Dick Cheney
Am friends wonder why I stopped celebrating the holidays. The only thing it's about is buying shit. And now greedy corporations want to take a way the holiday where people take to express their thanks.
It's bad enough that stores put out their Christmas shit at Halloween. They now want to force their employees to work in the middle of the night to sell a few more goods made in China.
Give it a few years and the malls will start putting out the Christams stuff as soon as back to school sales are over.
Fuck, I have to work on Thanksgiving. I have to cook a huge meal for 17 people in my screwed up family. Is there a petition I can sign?
R72, the biggest difference between the four groups you named (doctors, nurses, cops, fireman [sic]) is they are paid a living wage. Target employees are not.
Dear asshole at R72: Doctors, nurses, cops and firemen (and the plural is firemen, you fucking idiot) will, in all probability, will be compensated for their time by being paid holiday pay, or time and 1/2 or double time for working a holiday. Especially cops and firemen, who are mostly unionized.
You truly are an asshole and don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
And while I'm on a rant, if Faux News and Bill O'Liely want to talk about the destruction of Christmas, they can start with Target and Walmart and Macy's and all these other dumb ass stores for opening on holidays and starting the consumer madness known as Christmas unnecessarily early.
R72, the first one to complain about unions but now crowing that members of them are paid well to work on holidays unlike the non-unionized workers of Target.
The one thing I do agree with Faux News about is the destruction of Xmas because now it has zero to do with Christ. Let's just rename it Buy More Chinese Shit Day because that's what it is.
You're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.
Take your foot out of your mouth and read exactly what the employees are protesting.
It's not about money, it's about having to leave their Thanksgiving dinner to go work. And BTW, Target is paying the employees who work that night holiday pay, which is usually time and a half.
Massachusetts is using its ancient blue laws to stop Thanksgiving retail.
This is why America sucks. Europeans get 3 times the vacation time and are seldom expected to work menial jobs like retail on a holiday.
No one needs to shop at midnight after Thanksgiving.
There are plenty of days in the year to shop.
[quote]Oh, boo hoo. If someone working in retail is crying over having to work one night out of the year, then they should be glad that they are not waiting tables for a living and working until 2 a.m. or cleaning other people's filthy houses.
Oh sweetie, I can tell you've never worked in retail, especially at Target. I worked in guest services for a huge Target store for about three years. We NEVER left work before 2am in December, and I have cleaned plenty of shitty bathrooms. Black Friday isn't bad, they have every employee they can find working on the weekend after Thanksgiving, it makes everything much easier. It is the days in mid December and back to school season that are nightmares. People are coming at you from all directions, cursing you out, phones are ringing off the hook, carts and carts and carts and carts of merchandise to go through. If Target employees want the whole Thanksgiving Day off, they should get it.
^^That's because they actually have TIME to shop and run errands and that sort of thing.
"It's bad enough that stores put out their Christmas shit at Halloween."
If only they waited that long--Xmas decorations, trees & cards were available in late September.
the customers are an equal part of the problem. if there was no demand to open this early, it wouldnt happen. people need to reorganize priorities and stop lining up and stampeding for a new flat-screen. trash.
[quote]^^That's because they actually have TIME to shop and run errands and that sort of thing.
"the customers are an equal part of the problem."
Sort of. The retailers create the demand by offering limited bargains in the opening hours. This in turn fuels consumer participation in this idiotic ritual, but given the economy, I couldn't fault many people for trying to save as much money as possible.
FYI, I have worked in retail. And on holidays, too. And I've worked the store inventory after hours when the store closed. When I applied for a job in retail, I knew what to expect. Plus when you fill out the application, there is a section asking what hours and holidays you'd be willing to work.
I could understand the protest if these employees had no idea that they'd be asked to work crazy hours on Black Friday, but that's not the case.
Unless you work for the state or government offices, there aren't too many places that are closed on Thanksgiving anymore.
There isn't the slightest chance I'd shop at these shitholes that treat their workers like this...unfortunately I'm not the demographic, becaause I wouldn't do this shit on Friday either.
But I can file it away to avoid them later.
R86, this is crossing a line into servitude.
And before you bite, I work a 9-5.
"Plus when you fill out the application, there is a section asking what hours and holidays you'd be willing to work. I could understand the protest if these employees had no idea that they'd be asked to work crazy hours on Black Friday, but that's not the case. "
Target only recently announced the midnight opening--doubtful many of their employees are psychic friends of Dionne Warwick.
So would any shoppers support the employees by demanding Target not open early and refusing to go in for a midnight opening? Or does shopping win out?
R72, the doctors, nurses, cops and firemen/women who are single parents can afford the expensive childcare costs (using an agency) on Thanksgiving if they can't/won't leave their kids with friends or family. A heart attack victim can't wait 24hrs to see a doctor but Aunt Betty put off buying her new towels for a day or two, but you know this. Would you want to ask your friends to take care of your kids on Thanksgiving while you work? I wouldn't. Do you think the families of teenage babysitters allow them to babysit on major holidays?
I worked all the major holidays in restaurants when I was younger. I loved it because it gave me an excuse to avoid family get-togethers. The single moms were always coerced into working. They needed their jobs of course. On Christmas day, one server left her 14 yr old home alone with her toddler. Another one got more and more tense as the afternoon wore on because she had to leave her young kids at her parent's house with assorted relatives who always started boozing early.
Also, depending on where you live, bus service may be slow to non-existent on holidays. Who wants to spend 1/4 of their day's earnings on taxis?
Do we live to work or work to live? Employees should be able to spend major holidays with their families if they want to. They should not have to worry about losing the best shifts, sections, whatever as pay back. They do though and they do not have the power to fight it.
If Target was featured on that piece of crap series, Undercover Boss, the CEO would be shown working on Thanksgiving night. Instead, he'll be watching football while the worker ants earn him his bonus.
If you ever run for an elected office, r91, I'll vote for you.
Republican dilemma: Family values vs. Profit. We know which side will win...$
So, what you seem to be saying R91 is that we shouldn't hire any single moms because they can't meet the requirements of the job. Duly noted.
He should be grateful to have a job
r96=dullard; always misses the point
r67, the rumors about potential Thanksgiving hours and an earlier Black Friday opening have been flying around store management circles for the past several years. I've been gone about a year, and we all just crossed our fingers every autumn. I guess I left just in time. Managers knew several weeks ago, and I believe it was announced to team members around the 1st of November. My friends were dreading informing the team.
r82, it's even worse than that. Christmas cards usually go up immediately after Labor Day followed by outdoor decor & lighting a short time later. It's sick. The groans from shoppers were always hilarious. Team members would respond, "You think we WANT to be putting this stuff out while people are having barbeques???" The profit margin on that crap is amazing. Big boxes make an inordinately large percentage of their profit during 4th quarter (including Halloween). On a lot of items, they're still making a tidy profit on the 26th when that junk is 50% off. They even make out decently at 75% off.
r92, I would love to see Gregg Steinhafel on that show. His total annual compensation is $13.5 million. Would love to see him gathering carts in the parking lot on a busy Saturday. I thought Bob Ulrich was decent; he retired in early '08. The culture has changed under Steinhafel. The niche gap away from Wal-Mart is closing. The company has hemorrhaged good store level management talent over the past 3-4 years. They'll never get that talent back. Their management recruiting philosophy consists of hiring a bunch of fresh-faced 23 year olds straight out of college. They want to mold them into red shirt-wearing robots. The only problem is most of these kids have never really held down a real job in their lives and don't know diddly about customer service or the retail industry overall. Then they're quickly in over their heads, burned out, and end up leaving after a year or two. The management turnover rate is enormous. Someday soon a financial whiz in Minneapolis is going to look at a line item of how much the company is pissing away in management training and re-think the entire strategy.
It sucks that Denver is the test market for Thanksgiving Day hours of operation. Why couldn't they do that shit in Minneapolis? God forbid any of the home office bigwigs would have to drop into any stores that morning. Nope, they're too busy watching the Macy's parade and having spiced wine with relatives while the high school & college kids, soccer moms, and retirees are out peddling cheaply made Chinese shit to the masses for large profits.
I think its pretty disgusting that these stores are open on Thanksgiving which for generations have been a very American holiday next to 4 of July. More and more Thanksgiving is getting shoved aside to the point that one day Thanksgiving won't exist anymore. I think these retailers are ignoring and desecrating this holiday for two factors. 1. Because the materialistic greed has soared to a staggering high and 2. Thanksgiving is being obliterated because the PC police revised history making the Pilgrims out like Nazis. I think its a fantastic and positive holiday and it has a very positive message which is the tradition of being with family and friends ,and take a look at our lives thankful we should be and fortunate.
I notice where I live, a lot, not all minorities shop on Thanksgiving because many, many immigrants nowadays really don't give a rat's ass about American holidays like they used to. However, I think the retailer's are really rotten because they know a lot of poor people rush like mad to these sales because they drop the prices to the level in which they are able to afford theses items that they normally couldn't get so easily. The stores are just playing manipulation games on the lower classes. I don't mean to sound too dramatic, but it reminds me of the film, The shoot Horses Don't they?
My mother gets astounded how materialistic Christmas has became verses when she was growing up. She said people today get into a shopping frenzy verses years ago it was just a really fun time of the year. Of course people always gave gifts ,but years ago people didn't have this frame of mind like Christmas shopping is like getting a fix on cocaine or on some other type of drug.
get ready for communism in America, where ALL will be miserable
To everyone posting that these people should be thankful to just have a job, some words from Mr. Dicken's are in order...you might recognize yourselves in them if you look in the mirror:
"Are there no prisons? And the union workhouses? Are they still in operation?...."
"No, it is not quite conveninet! It is a poor excuse to pick a man's pocket every 25th of December!"
And to all you right wing blowhards:" And as your business prospered, Ebenezer Scrooge, a golden idol took possession of your heart, as Alice said it would."
Remember folks, Mankind should be have been your business.
Fuck off with your PC bullshit about the Puritans, r99. People don't get worked up over Thanksgiving because the food sucks and long before the Black Friday crap, the media was busy trying to cram loads of football down everyone's throat.
Now it's just a day for obese men to sit in front of large screen TVs while shoveling in bland carbohydrates while their equally obese wives plan the Black Friday outing. Who wants to spend the whole day with family, anyway?
The economy's in the shitter, thanks mostly to Republicans, and Target is a shitty employer.
And Black Friday is a cultural shitfest that no sane person participates in.
Would that it were not so!
Nevertheless, there really are only two options, since Thanksgiving is only a week away: those Target employees who don't want to interrupt their holiday time with their families will have to quit their jobs. Perhaps they could then get hired at Wal-Mart through the end of the year.
Fortunately for Target, there are millions of unemployed people who would love to work on Thanksgiving.
P.C. Richard, a 100-year-old appliance and TV chain in Metro New York runs ads every Thanksgivng saying they are closed for employees to be at home with families.
In my town these same box stores close down on Easter, because they would not think of opening on the Christian/family holiday. If a day can marketed and $$ can be made, then the family holiday arguement is thrown out.
Paramus, New Jersey with four major shopping centers has a "Blue Law "which prohibits everything except grocery stores from being open on Sundays. When it comes up for a vote, residents want the status quo.
People buy Monday through Saturday or go to a neighboring town. No chains have closed because of the law.
Anything you'd buy on Thanksgiving will be on the shelf the next day and until Christmas Eve.
Unfortunately opening at midnight is probably the best & safest solution to Black Friday for these big box stores.
I know it sucks for the employees but I would think that opening at 12 AM is a better solution than risking being trampled by the crowd as they all run in together later in the morning.
I have been in a Black Friday crowd when the doors opened at 6 and it was like a riot.
I own retail stores and we staff for our customers needs, not our employees. Those who can't/won't work the hours required to serve our customers can find other jobs that will allow them to work the princess hours they think they are entitled to. Good luck! Don't let the door hit you in the ass.
We are very clear about our requirements at the time of hire, so I'm really not interested in hearing whiney complaints about child care, long commutes, or all day Sunday church services. You accepted the job with full knowledge of our attendance policies AND you signed a form indicating you agreed to our policies as a condition of employment.
I'm sure the folks at Target cover their asses as well, if not better, than we do.
Nevermind the fact that Target always makes sure to be closed on Easter. EASTER!
Yet they can't be bothered to allow their employees ONE holiday uninterrupted with their families before they have to begin a month of retail hell.
R108 is EXACTLY what's wrong with this country.
This country is really starting to scare the hell out of me. God, I really wish I was born during a different time period; I guess this is the reason I love collecting antiques. Fuck all that plastic crap from China. Buy second-hand goods because they are better for your wallet, country, and planet.
R111 is EXACTLY the same customer who walks in my store at 8:55pm and expects to be given top notch service with a smile long past our closing time.
No, R110, R108 is an adult who runs a business.
If you want to run a charity disguised as a business, why don't you start one and see how far you get?
And please don't lie to us and say you run a successful something-or-other. We know you don't.
Never said I did, nor would I want to run a business, R113. ESPECIALLY a retail one.
But I stand by my statement that R108 is what's wrong with this country. The typical "be thrilled that I'm giving you a job, peon. You will do whatever I want when I want, and YOUR needs be damned."
It's the same attitude corporate America has, and I absolutely loathe them and wish for its demise, hard and fast.
Dang. Meant to say R110
No R112, I don't do that. But keep up your fantasy life, dear.
[quote]You accepted the job with full knowledge of our attendance policies AND you signed a form indicating you agreed to our policies as a condition of employment.
As did Target employees, who never imagined the company would decide at the last minute to make them work on Thanksgiving. Some of you guys don't seem to get that this schedule change came with very little notice.
Black Friday will eventually become transformed. What will happen is that stores will just open all day -- whatever their business hours -- on Thursday/Thanksgiving Day.
There are no standards anymore.
Good-"Buy" to Life!
I find it astounding that someone with a job would be protesting.
I feel sorry for the people who have to work at Burger King overnight (now that they're open 24 hours) or Taco Bell or whatever.
What a shitty shift.
People don't need quarter pounders at 3a anyway.
I agree with r110 & r111.
r112, I personally have never done that in my life.
And Target isn't "serving their customers needs." Customers are not demanding that they open at midnight. This was all Target's idea...to squeeze more money out of their shoppers.
R111 = you love "collecting antiques" because you are a QUEEN. Own it.
Holiday pay? That would be at most, a dollar more an hour. Not to mention they start workers at minimum wage. No one is meaner to their workers, then Target. Even Walmart shows some kindness...at least part of their workers get health insurance. Find any Target employees who get health insurance, only management.
Working as a slave...not making enough to keep a roof over your head, no, it is not better then having no job at all. It really just kills your soul. At this point in our history, Scrooge is thought of as a good guy.
The 1% have us exactly where they want us...begging for their shitty jobs.
Ah...you know if you are going to work your ass off all night long...you have to find some time to sleep, the day before. That cuts into your holiday. For christ fucking sake! People have a right to a holiday.
Try being a nurse.
My first year I had to work from 8a to 8:30p on Thanksgiving, 8a to 8:30p on Christmas Eve, then from 8a to 8:30 p Christmas Day because I was the lowest on the totem poll and had no seniority.
After that, I had to work on either Christmas Eve or Christmas day and either on New Year's Eve or New Years Day. And I worked Thanksgiving every other year.
I lived 3 hours from my family, so it was a washout. After working 12 and half hours, it didn't seem worthwhile to drive 3 hours just to say, "Merry Christmas" as everyone was going to bed.
Sick people have to be cared for...no way around it. People do NOT have to shop at midnight.
r122, your entire post is generally inaccurate. Holiday pay for team members at Target is time & a half (Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, and now Thanksgiving - in Denver). Most Targets start team members an average of a dollar or so above minimum wage. "Meaner" to their workers? This isn't Oliver Twist. Most Target managers I know are decent human beings and care about their team and its welfare.
We never scheduled part-timers under a minimum number of hours to prevent them from getting health care. If a team member is good, you want them in your store as much as they are available to work. Many of our part-timers chose to enroll in health care plans. The plans are pretty competitive, if not better, than other retailers.
I've stated my case as to why the current changes suck. But there's no conspiracy theory to screw the employees. It's a Fortune 500 retail business. They push cheap Chinese shit on the masses. People shop there and people work there.
[quote]No one is meaner to their workers, then Target.
Says the queen who can't put together a simple English sentence.
Toys R Us opens at 9pm on Thanksgiving day. I don't doubt that Thanksgiving will soon no longer be considered a day of rest for employees. In fact, it already gets passed over for holiday decor... stores go straight from Halloween to Christmas.
[quote]And Target isn't "serving their customers needs." Customers are not demanding that they open at midnight. This was all Target's idea...to squeeze more money out of their shoppers.
If that were the case, the stores would be empty at midnight. But they aren't. People are lined up waiting to get in. Are you really that clueless?
You know when you take a retail job that you are working for a consumer oriented business in a society that is obsessed with consumerism.
You know stores do this crap on Black Friday and that many stores open at midnight.
My mother worked in a restaurant that was not only open on major holidays, but all major holidays were much longer days with more customers that non holidays. People don't have to eat at a restaurant on holidays... they can eat at home. But restaurants want them to eat there on a holiday because the holidays account for a good percentage of their yearly business.
Same with stores. They have sales on Black Friday. It's one day a year. It accounts for a good percentage of their yearly business. People don't have to go shopping on Black Friday, but they want to and the stores want them to.
You can't work in a business that makes its money a certain way and then say, "It's no good." They're not being asked to work on Thanksgiving. They're being told to work on one of the busiest consumer shopping days of the year. If people didn't shop like maniacs and fill the retail coffers on Black Friday, Target wouldn't be open at midnight.
This is the society we live in. Blame the assholes who go shopping at midnight, not the retailers who accomodate them. The consumers are the ones fueling this nonsense.
No, they aren't, r132. The corporations invented "Black Friday".
[quote] No, they aren't
Who is "they"? And "they aren't" what?
It IS better than having no job at all. Judging by your whining, I guess no one else would hire you. You are free to work somewhere else. Just shut the fuck up, bitch!
[quote]This is the society we live in. Blame the assholes who go shopping at midnight, not the retailers who accomodate them. The consumers are the ones fueling this nonsense.
I don't get it. Did consumers announce that Target stores would be opening on Thanksgiving Day at midnight? Did consumers deluge Target with demands that their stores had to open at that time?
I don't doubt shoppers will show up because Target will provide the incentive for them to do so, but it was Target that made the decision to open.
A bunch of executives sat around conference tables and made this decision.
Target red shirted whiny baby boo hoo employees can suck my big ones. I'm already planning to start shopping at around 3 a.m. when the bars close down so they can bite my big red rump! I'm bringing Chloe aka Big Foot/Yeti with me, so there!
I never get over how clueless some people are on datalounge. How does someone like R136 even survive from day to day?
Target made the decision because other stores had been opening at midnight on Black Friday and doing well, with lots of sales. And sales are what it is all about.
If nobody shows up at midnight, then Target won't do it again.
I wouldn't set foot in any store on Black Friday. But the stores don't miss me. They've got plenty of others who will.
People make their own decisions.
Don't be naive R136, big retailers spend millions on market research and if they didn't firmly believe there was a strong likelihood that people would shop at midnight, and that it would be hugely profitable for them, they wouldn't do it.
I only have small stores and we have expanded hours in two of our locations to accommodate customers. It was a response to demand when we saw high volume immediately after opening on the weekends. If customers are rattling your doors at 6 am to get in and spend money---you open the fucking doors.
But if Target doesn't open the doors at midnight on Thanksgiving, the customers will come another time.
I have never participated in any of the Black Friday shopping events. I imagine they're pretty awful. I'm not a well-trained consumer.
[quote] It IS better than having no job at all.
No, it's not. I would rather die sleeping in the cold on the streets than to ever work for a soul-sucking retail corporation.
Oh, god, R136 / R141, you are a mess. I just hope you're pretty. VERY pretty.
[quote] If customers are rattling your doors at 6 am to get in and spend money---you open the fucking doors.
No. You tell the stupid assholes to go back to bed and shop a a civilized hour.
If you're old enough, you'll remember retail employees objected even more strongly when stores started opening on Sundays. In my neck of the woods, we still get news stories every few years about some local retailer finally buckling under and adding Sunday hours -- and the focus is always on the employees who think it's unfair for them to have to work on "the Lord's Day."
Somehow I think DLers wouldn't be as sympathetic to them as they are to these Target folks.
R146, I am very pretty and I have never worked in retail. I'm also not a very good consumer. If I want to buy something, I do careful research beforehand. I don't buy junk and throw it away so I can buy more junk.
I would never buy electronics from a big box store.
r145 If you live in Bergen County, NJ the stores are still closed on Sunday. Of course, you don't want to be anywhere near there on a Saturday because it's total gridlock, but I like the fact that Sunday is put aside for other things. Businesses have tried for years to overturn that blue law, but to no avail. Thank God...
You make me glad I'm not a nurse. (No offense.) Are you still in that profession?
Why are people so easily manipulated? Why the hell would you insist on going shopping on Thanksgiving evening? Why do people keep to their old Black Friday traditions anyway? Why would you want to be in a packed store and standing in line?
Never done the whole 'Black Friday' thing. I do the Amazon version where they put certain items cheaply on sale every day or so. I do that from the comfort of my own home.
Would anyone really go out on Turkey Day evening to shop? Everyone in my family sits around and groans and sleeps from all the food plus the wine is flowing. We eat around 2 or 3 and then most of us will go to bed fairly early.
You can't place the blame entirely on the consumers. It was businesses that saw how well Black Friday was doing and decided to open up early. I believe it was Walmart who took it upon themselves to open "earlier than the rest" at midnight, thus starting this insane frenzy.
Granted, the people who choose to shop during these hours should be held responsible. But there was not a public demand for stores to be open on Thanksgiving Day. These businesses did it themselves. They are accountable for their own actions.
This freeper-esque "It's all the working people's fault" isn't cutting it anymore. It's the same excuse Wall Street gave for the economy tanking. It's simply an excuse to let corporations do whatever the fuck they want as the US moves closer to a third world country. And an excuse for greed at the hands of the working class "slobs".
[quote]Why are people so easily manipulated? Why the hell would you insist on going shopping on Thanksgiving evening? Why do people keep to their old Black Friday traditions anyway? Why would you want to be in a packed store and standing in line?
As incredible as it sounds, some people, mainly women, turn Black Friday shopping into a "family outing" or "girl time". They even sit down and map out their strategies in advance.
It doesn't appeal to me either, but I don't disparage people who enjoy that sort of thing.
So, how much of a deal can you get on a flat screen TV at midnight @ Target anyway? Looking for a 50".
The employees are naive; signing the petition just put's them on the chain's blacklist. This midnight opening was planned months ago -- the commercial they're running was carefully constructed.
On why do the Black Friday madness? Don't know about elsewhere, but in the NYC tri-state area shopping is a contact sport to begin with, on a par with Giants football. This just takes it to MMA level. It's the challenge.
From an article about Target and other retailers:
"Ellen Davis, a vice president for the National Retail Federation, pointed out that other workers — including movie theater and some restaurant employees — already work that holiday.
'Their employees aren't up in arms about it," she said. "It's almost ironic that on Thanksgiving, people are complaining about having a job.'"
You know, people can generally be thankful for what they have, like a job, and still want to improve their lot, whether it be working conditions or anything else.
The "just be thankful that you have a job" meme is complete bullshit. That idea can be stretched continuously and used as an answer whenever someone protests to anything work related - low pay, dangerous conditions, horrible working conditions, sexual harassment, and on and on.
It's so fucking sad that people think that just because people want to do better for themselves that they are necessarily unthankful in a broader sense.
It's a perfect idea for keeping people down, basically encapsulating the notion that no worker has a right to ever protest anything work-related because, after all, they have a job.
I'm NOT saying that retail employees (who know the pitfalls of retail work, including crazy work schedules) having to work an especially early Black Friday shift is the biggest injustice in the world. But, I see no reason why they shouldn't speak up if they feel it is an issue. I guarantee that the "just be thankful" people who dismiss the Black Friday issue would answer "just be thankful" to any work-related issue, no matter all serious.
It's exactly what corporate dominated government wants. People who don't protest, who are "just thankful" to be employed.
that should have been "no matter how serious."
I'm unemployed and would happily accept work anytime of day, including Black Friday. I used to work for a non-profit union and was protected by a union myself, but even after relocating to a place with a lower cost of living, I can't even get a job at Target (just one of countless places I've applied) because I'm overqualified, even after having past retail and customer service experience.
Maybe corporate America sucks, but we live in a country where the majority of us don't live in cardboard huts and aren't required to walk a mile for dirty drinking water. These people signed up for retail and knew what they were getting themselves into, end of story.
"Maybe corporate America sucks, but we live in a country where the majority of us don't live in cardboard huts and aren't required to walk a mile for dirty drinking water."
No, a good portion only live in Cardboard boxes and have to stand on lines for food in shelters.
And we're not talking about Black Friday, we're talking about THANKSGIVING. A holiday.
No retail stores should be open on Thanksgiving. End of story.
[quote]No, a good portion only live in Cardboard boxes and have to stand on lines for food in shelters.
A "good portion" of these are mentally ill and/or addicted and could not hold a job anywhere. Many have resources (mental health and rehab) at their disposal that they refuse to take advantage of.
Do you suppose Europeans spend 20% of their 3 week long vacations just laughing at retarded Americans?
It's total horseshit that Target is doing this, it's even more shitty that people say things like "People should just be thankful that they have a job."
r158, keep trying. Maybe apply at different locations. Unfortunately 4th quarter seasonal hiring is over. We hired overqualified candidates all the time. Sure, some of them didn't last very long, but others were some of our best team members. Good Target managers aren't scared off by past high level experience or high salaries. Most realize that some people get laid off and need retail employment as a filler.
What, retail hours and pay suck? And you have to work long hours on the holidays??
I just drove by a KMart thus morning. They will be open from 6am-9pm on Thanksgiving.
The idiocy never stops.
R 158/Jonathan, perhaps you didn't get hired due to reading comprehension issues? You don't seem to recognize that the Target employees had NO IDEA that they'd have to work on Thanksgiving or midnight on Black Friday.
Also, I know it lets you sleep at night, but the myth of not being hired because you are over-qualified is just that, a myth. You need to seriously examine your resume and interviewing skills if you're still unemployed.
They should form a Union!
What time is his family eating dinner? I work at Target and I don't have to be there until 11:45 PM on Thanksgiving Day. Anyway, he knew this working in retail. Most retailers open at midnight. Actually last year Target was the only one (of the store of this type) that did not open at midnight. Best Buy, Walmart actually starts at 10 PM, Kmart, and many others. I don't understand why he is so worked up at this. If we worked with any other retailer he would have to be there at midnight because almost every retailer is opening up that early this year. Man up! I work there too, I just old them that I was unable to work Black Friday because I was away visiting family and guess what people... I don't work Black Friday! It is his own fault that he didn't talk to his supervisors. Target is a good company to work for and yes they are there to make money, there is nothing wrong with that. This is not going to change Target's mind, if anything it will get him fired and he won't have to work at midnight. Problem solved!
[quote] If we worked with any other retailer he would have to be there at midnight because almost every retailer is opening up that early this year.
Really? Because I've not seen the ads for JC Penney, Macys, Big Lots, Ross, Marshalls, Kohl's, TJ Maxx, Bloomingdales, Barnes & Noble and a host of others opening at midnight.
i dont think target should open their doors early. nor do i agree with walmart, macys, mall of america or anyone else doing the same. its called black FRIDAY for a reason...i have worked in retail/with the public for 14 years. i have worked holidays and missed out on birthdays, special things with my family, etc. but-at least where i have worked closes early...so i can still enjoy dinner on thanksgiving and we're still closed on christmas...im grateful for having a job but those of you that think target is right in opening early and expecting their people to be there and be happy have obviously not worked on holidays or with the public...i think it sucks...
If he has to leave in the middle of dinner to be at Target for a midnight opening, what time would he have to leave in order to be there for a 6 a.m. opening?
Since this post was from last year and back then, the Targets all opened early, I assume their protest went nowhere. In fact, I understand that this year, the opening will be earlier still. This seems to be because they think they can make more money by doing so, or else try to recoup losses that Black Friday creates in the labor costs.
After reading that McDs suffered its first monthly loss in years, I am wondering if this year, we will see huge crowds at the store for only an hour or so after the opening, and then most shoppers will disappear, as in the past few years.
I agree with you, JO @ R169, and I'm sorry about this. Last year. And, even though I've been sick and not paying attention, this year too if applicable. (My e-mail has had Black Friday ads. I haven't looked at any of them. I'm in no mood. And I personally have little or no use for them.)
Starting up with Black Friday right at midnight has ruined the concept to the point they may as well be ruining All Day Thanksgiving Day too. (That will be next.) It's repulsive. It's an example why greed is not good.
Can we PLEASE start to F&F people who bump year old threads???
They will find away to get rid of you r166 if they hear the rumor of a union. -per family Target employee
I don't think Target is QUITE as bad as some of the other retailers (Wal-Mart, Best Buy etc....) I actually heard, that they just recently did this midnight madness thing, while other retailers started a couple years earlier, and last year they only schedualed volunteers who wanted to work.
With that said however, it is a shame that these retailers are opening up earlier and earlier and taking quality Thanksgiving time away from families. I spoke to an employee yesterday that said she has to have Thanksgiving dinner at 2:00 so she can be at work at 9:00 Thanksgiving night.
Nothing wrong with Target and other companies trying to make a buck (after all, they are there to make money) HOWEVER, they still have over 360 days to make money...They do NOT need to open overnight and steal quality Thanksgiving time away from thier employees. Basically these retailer shops that are opening up as early as 8:00 (or even midnight) Thanksgiving night are telling thier employees to "Fuck Off"
R168, Big Lots is open all day on Thanksgiving and has been for years.
Fact of the matter is Target isn't in business to employ people, they are in business to make money; like was mentioned before, there are a ton of people that would step up and take the job if you don't want it
I read last year that over 60% of the purchases done on Black Friday were returned within 3 days. Many people are caught up in purchasing items they don't need or can't afford. I wonder how profitable Black Friday is for retailers since most of the items are returned later.
Maybe this has been mentioned upthread (I'm too full to check). But many online retailers were "open" today and those folks had to work. If it's optional (with holiday pay), that seems good (I'd work on a holiday if the price were right). But if it's mandatory, then it's the perpetuation of our classist society.
This is retail...not like a real job.
I'm not going tomorrow, no way!
2 hours till midnight, folks!
I can understand why people would not want to work on such a day, unless they wore Kevlar:
I have to work today mandantory OT the only reason is corporate greed...
Another outdated, bumped thread. Weren't there already at least a couple 2012 Black Friday threads?
Targets actually opened at 9:00 this year. I bet the protest lady is even more pissed (if they didn't fire her).
Did anyone DARE go to Walmart today?
r187, I actually dropped in a Walmart on my way home from a Thanksgiving dinner party last night, around 11:30 (they opened at 8:00, so I wasn't fearful). I snagged a $9.44 Mr. Coffee & some Spot Shot to do some carpet touch-up today. Didn't want to have to run out on Black Friday. The coffeemaker is for me, as my 8-year old free Gevalia died recently. I walked right up to a cashier; she was very nice. Only my second visit to a Walmart in 2012, which is one above my average. Even once is probably too much, but I just didn't feel like spending much on a damn coffeemaker. My backup plan was a $19.99 Bella at Macy's with a $10 mail-in rebate. Glad I didn't have to step foot in a mall.
Those stores won't give the store employees, insurance or sick time or vacation time or a living wage. So I seldom ever shop there. Some people think I'm stupid for not shopping at Walmart.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
We are switching to the new platform for The DataLounge this weekend. All of our mobile users have been using it for over a week and all first time users have been using it for about a month - which adds up to well over one million users. So we're ready to end this phase of the testing and move everybody to the new site. (more)
And yes, we've changed the look and some of how it operates.
Yes, we know you just *hate* it in well in advance.
Yes, we know we suck.
Yes, we are the biggest suckers that ever sucked.
But it was time for a change and with the huge shift to mobile it was long overdue. We've taken this opportunity not only to update the look but also make major changes under the hood (or "bonnet" if you're either British or pretentious or both). And we have to prepare for 2016 - a presidential election year where we can normally expect to see a 60% jump in traffic (yes, we've seen 5 presidential elections so far…Christ we're old).
The site has a bunch - nay, plethora - of new features which will make the site more usable: better search, the ability to ignore posters and threads, see link previews, to pick up a thread where you left off, spam and malware filtering and more.
If you want you can go explore and see for yourself, Click here.
And while running the tests we've noticed two interesting reactions to the new system - people are spending more time on the site and more people that come stay around longer and look at more stuff. Both good things. Yay!
Possibly we've not slain all the dragons and there will be issues that come up during the switchover. There's a help button in the lower right hand corner of the page which you can use to send us bug reports.
Please include as much information about the hardware (PC, Mac, Tablet, Phone etc), operating system (Windows, Mac OS, Android, iOS etc) and browser (Chrome, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer etc) that you are using as possible to help us replicate and fix the problem.
Please note that complaints about colors, fonts, icons and the like are not "bugs" - they are design choices that we've made and we expect one or two cases of world-class bitching. But they won't actually cause headaches, scurvy, heart attacks, Restless Leg Syndrome, Morgellon's Disease or the vapors (but have your smelling salts at hand just in case).
Talking to DataLounge servers. Please wait a moment...