New Order: "Dreams Never End" and "Temptation"
Joy Division: "Atmosphere"
Age of Consent.
"True Faith" for the sheer exuberance of it. Followed by: "Fine Time", "Round and Round", "Bizarre Love Triangle", and "World".
Love New Order, perhaps the music resonates with me more strongly. Hard to choose favourites though.
Joy Division- Favourite song: Atmosphere/Digital for very different reasons and moods can't choose between
Least: Incubation (just too punk for me)
New Order- Favourite song: Temptation/Ceremony for very different reasons and moods
Least: Blue Monday (overkill)
I love New Order. Hands down my all-time favorite song is "Perfect Kiss," but I also really love "True Faith," "Regret," "1963," and "World in Motion."
I've honestly not seen videos for most of their songs. The only videos I can picture are for "True Faith" and "Perfect Kiss" and I like them both.
The albums that they released in the past decade are fine, but I'm not passionate about any of the songs.
Unfortunately I can't say much about Joy Division. Over the years I've tried to enjoy their songs, but it's really only "Love Will Tear Us Apart" that I like.
Of the side projects, I really hate the Revenge album that Peter Hook was responsible for, but Bernard with Johnny Marr and Pet Shop Boys made one of my all time favorite albums with Electronic. As an entire work, I actually like it more than any single New Order album (with the exception of "Substance").
Odd comparison. New Order was a major band. Joy Division most people didn't even know who they were, even back then.
"Odd comparison"? You do realize New Order was formed by the surviving members of Joy Division after Ian Curtis's suicide in 1980?
Typical, yes, but 'Bizarre Love Triangle' will always be mine.
It was the soundtrack to my young adult hood, my first crush on a guy I was madly in love with, early college years. Just thinking of it brings up emotions which range from melancholy to euphoric.
Just ignore R8, R9. It's better if we all do.
Joy Division sucked.
New Order still kind of sucks, but I like Bizarre Love Triangle.
My favorite Joy Division song is 'The Eternal'. The song honestly scared the shit out of me the first time I ever heard it, and it is still chilling. Bleakest, most haunting song I've ever heard.
Actually I would say that my 3 favorite Joy Division songs are the last 3 songs from Closer. My favorite is The Eternal, second is Decades, and third is Twenty Four Hours. Each of these 3 songs plays out in a certain way and makes me think if certain imagery/themes. In order of their appearance:
Twenty Four Hours: like a desperate man in the last moments of his life, hoping to some way get out of his problems, but knowing how unlikely that is. Very sad, intense, and foreboding. Like the setting of the sun signifies the end of his life.
The Eternal: sounds like the man has died, and the image is of being stuck in one of the vast cemeteries with the marble graves and statues everywhere. Mournful. The quiet feeling of doom, there's no going back now. It encapsulates everything pertaining to a fear of death. You are never going to leave the graveyard. You are never going to leave the mausoleum. As cold as being on the slab.
Decades: Welcome to the macabre dance of hell. You are screwed.
And I must give an honorary mention to Atrocity Exhibition. It also has hellish imagery of people who enjoy watching someone in anguish, being tortured in some way. Very weird sounding song.
Ian Curtis' girlfriend was "terrified" by Closer, which she had apparently heard before his death:
When I was younger I preferred New Order. Now I'm older I prefer Joy Division.
Neither Ian nor Barney could sing, but Ian found a way to make that work where Barney never did.
Best tune? Got to be "She's lost control".
And yeah R13, Closer is a fucking masterpiece.
New Order was good indie disco, but that's all it was, in retrospect. Joy Division were a proper band with something to say. Which is why it's mad that that's the band that came first; so serious when so young.
Having said that, I scored up the 12" of "Thieves Like Us" and yes also own "Blue Monday".
My favourite of theirs is "Perfect Kiss".
Figures a bunch of vapid queens would gush over New Order's overplayed pop hits and turn their noses up at Joy Division, a superior band.
Anyone who knows music at all knows that Joy Division was the godfather of much of post punk and new wave. They (like Kraftwerk and Sex Pistols before them) did stuff that made a lot of the 80s music we enjoy possible. Ask any hit maker from the 80s, they'll reference JD as a very influential band for them.
Aren't you rather spesh, R17? Your indie cred just shot up to infinity after you dissed "vapid queens". Where would the rest of us uneducated yokels be without someone as versed in all things music such as yourself to teach us?
R17, I wasn't going to say anything about New Order, but I was going to say that I highly doubt that many DLers would like Joy Division. Especially those who like American Idol, show tunes, and dance music.
Well hey, R18, looks like I hit a nerve. Maybe you're one of those vapid queens then, if you take internet commentary personally.
But seriously, check them out. They're far from 'indie', lol.
Somewhat off the subject but when I moved several years ago, I lost a box of records which included a lot of New Order 12" remixes. They produced some excellent cover art/packaging.
Peter Hook is a piece of shit. On the 30th anniversary of Ian Curtis' suicide, Hook played an exploitative concert of Joy Division's music. Yep, the exact date. Enjoy your blood money, Peter.
I think Peter Saville was the graphic creator director. I agree, brilliant visual identity and cover art.
The covers for Unknown Pleasures and Closer are brilliant and iconic.
What bands/music are/is most similar to Joy Division?
R25, I would say that if you are looking for a particular band that is deliberately trying to fit the JD mold, definitely Interpol.
But bands like Modern English, The Cure, Echo & The Bunnymen, Simple Minds, and especially the Psychedelic Furs were directly inspired by Joy Division. Then, dozens of big UK bands were then inspired by THESE bands, and so on and so on.
Here's a nice biographical article about Joy Division, and about how influential they were.
Thanks R26. I will check those bands out.
But is there any music(whether similar or dissimilar to Joy Division) that is as pitch black?
Well, the thing with JD is, if you really sit and listen to a lot of their songs, it's not pitch black at all. They incorporated a lot of dance beats and synths into their sound when it was "too disco" to do so...but what made them unique was Ian Curtis' haunting and off-key voice...with lyrics that were often very optimistic amidst all the pain.
So no, you'll never hear a band just like JD. If you want the closest in sound to them, I would go with Bauhaus and very early Modern English & Echo.
I went to the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain, and they had this exhibition where you walk into a black room, and you can't tell where the walls are, yet on one wall there is playing a concert montage of Ian Curtis singing and having seizures, while they played the song "Decades" on a loop.
Not sure what the point was, but it was certainly memorable, and I enjoyed standing there zoning out to it.
Even the hand opening the door in the 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' video creeps me out. I am not exaggerating.
Wow, New Order was one of the soundtracks of my life growing up in the 80's. Songs remind me of slipping in to my first gay bar, going to general admission concerts at all the small venues in Atlanta and of course hitting the only mall in the area at the time, Lenox, a 40 minute drive from my home. I still love and hate the eighties.
If Ian hadn't committed suicide, I wonder what Joy Division would've done next. LWTUA was a fairly big breakthrough. Maybe Ian would've started contributing more musically. I liked his guitar sound.
I'm with ayb: She's Lost Control and Dead Souls are among my favorite JD songs.
I Remember Nothing was my preferred tune to cut myself to back in the day. Of New Order's stuff I like Movement the best. Also have a soft spot for Low-Life. After Brotherhood they kind of lost me.
I've always loved New Order. The music, the sleeves, the videos (which were mostly directed by fine artists, not typical video directors).
I appreciate Joy Division as well, but have never really enjoyed listening to their music in more than small doses.
Peter Hook's second Monaco album is excellent, btw. Probably my favorite NO solo album.
Their first album is very reminiscent of David Bowie and Sex Pistols. As I understand it, Ian Curtis was obsessed with Bowie, and his band members were wanting to be the 'next Sex Pistols'. Their sound merged from there.
Another thought I've always had is that the bland sad poetry of a bass voice is very reminiscent of The Doors. I think Ian may have been fond of Jim Morrison's brooding vocals and was trying to emulate them as well.
In fact, The Doors "L.A. Woman" is an obvious inspiration for many of Ian's vocals on Unknown Pleasures.
What Bowie songs are similar to Unknown Pleasures?
R38, I mean their first release, which was called "An Ideal for Living", an EP.
Check it out, it's pure Bowie. You could almost hear Bowie itching to scream "Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am!" through much of it.
I would also have to agree that Joy Division was the superior band. I loved 'Blue Mondays' from New Order, but beyond that I never listened to them much.
Favorite JD songs: another one here for Dead Souls, She's Lost Control, and Digital. But I adore the opening strains of Transmission.
Joy Division was certainly far superior.
I love "Regret" off the "Republic" album.
That whole album is good.
Many people were aware that Ian had epilepsy. When you went to see a show (if you were lucky enough) there was a question in your head whether he was going to have another seizure onstage. The fact that his dancing was very seizure-like made it all the more captivating.
[quote]I loved 'Blue Mondays' from New Order
Oh, did you?
So I accidentally pluralized it. Big deal. I'd been drinking a lot of wine last night when I posted.
I'm debating buying and downloading "Total" from the iTunes store. Not only does it have Joy Division and New Order's greatest hits, but the deluxe version also contains videos. $24.99 seems a bit steep though.
I love New Order's early 90's hits, especially 'Regret". I love that video where shots of a *happy* band is spliced with everyday life in Rome.
Don't worry about, R47. I had a drunken posting mishap last night on another thread that somebody made into a big deal.
New Dawn Fades is great. I love the weird sounds at the beginning and the brooding guitar.
R50, it's so nice to see alcoholics looking out for their peers.
Joy Division: Love Will Tear Us Apart, New Dawn Fades
New Order: True Faith, Age of Consent, Blue Monday
I remember how great True Faith sounded in a nightclub. To think what merde people have to hear when they go out now.
I liked the New Order documentary, as well as "Control."
Thank you, R53. It's the Datalounge way.
Power, Corruption & Lies -- dance music for burned out punks.
True Faith is one of the best synth-pop songs ever written.
I was searching online about Ian Curtis' ancestry and surprisingly found a claim that he has Irish heritage. Have any of you heard that claim before? I also heard the claim that Manchester is the city in England with the highest percentage of Irish people.
Or do you know anything about his ancestry/family history in general? I'm also wondering if his parents(or siblings, does he have any?) have ever been interviewed/filmed/photographed?
'In a Lonely Place' was just as dark and bleak as the songs on Closer. Makes you wonder what Joy Division/Ian Curtis would've done had Ian lived.
R59, pretty much every white British & American person has some Irish roots. It's not a big deal.
Actually, I always heard that Liverpool had the highest Irish concentration of the English cities, since it's closest in proximity, just across the water from Dublin.
R61, I'd also assumed that Liverpool was the most Irish city percentage wise, which is why the claim of Manchester being more Irish surprised me. I'm pretty sure that all four members of The Smiths are fully Irish.
Also, the claim was that Ian Curtis had an 'Irish background', which makes it sound prominent rather than being just a little bit.
Has there ever been any foul play suspected in regard to Ian Curtis' death?
Or anything suspicious about his death or about the behavior or actions of anyone he knew(including his bandmates)?
Nope. He was a miserable person who wanted to be famous like Bowie, and once the fame train hit, he couldn't handle it, and his recently diagnosed epilepsy, and the pressure got to him.
It's a really sad story, but it's not a new one.
Try to cry out in the heat of the moment
Possessed by a fury that burns from inside
I was thinking about R25's question about bands that have similar sound and/or style to Joy Division. Other people probably know more songs by the band Editors than I do, but from the little I know, I would say they are the current band that most reminds me of J.D.
Thanks for the suggestion, R69. Check out the comments to this article, somebody gives a list of names of other bands from the same generalized 'scene' and time period:
"I've mentioned something similar above and can recommend Pere Ubu from their singles of the mid 70s found on Terminal Tower/Datapanik in the Year Zero to Dub Housing - Heart of Darkness, Caligari's Mirror, Final Solution, My Dark Ages, Street Waves, Sentimental Journey, Dub Housing...maybe even Small Was Fast from New Picnic Time with the desperate repetition of "I waited/I waited/I waited for you..."
Siouxsie & the Banshees' circa The Scream explored these climes, when was that, 1978? Pure into Jigsaw Feeling is pretty much JD before JD and they're a bit forgotten. Theme by PIL, which was 1978 or 1979 is claustrophobic, desperate, tragic and themed around suicide (something like Annalisa, Death Disco, Pop Tones or Albatross too). Have a listen to the first few Magazine albums, again pre-JD - Parade, Shot by Both Sides, Permafrost, Feed the Enemy, My Tulpa, Definitive Gaze...JD weren't the sole band exploring the dark stuff.
The Idiot by Iggy Pop should be mentioned, several records by Throbbing Gristle (have you heard Hamburger Lady, Beachy Head, or Six Six Sixties? - JD sound very MOR compared!), Suicide's debut (Frankie Teardrop is the one there), Josef K (though they did refer to JD), Mars (they sound like a group of Ian Curtises'), Ultravox (with an exclaimation mark - My Sex is all that Ballard stuff with some very Neu! Synths)...There were the Psychedelic Furs (Sister Europe be the one there), the Bunnymen (though not truly bleak till Heaven Up Here), The Cure (from 17 Seconds to Pornography), Teenage Jesus & the Jerks (skronky stuff), The Sound, Young Marble Giants, & something like Y by The Pop Group - all of those adjectives above apply to She is Beyond Good & Evil, We Are Time, Savage Sea etc. What about The Electrician by The Walker Brothers? Hero by Neu! Peking O by Can? (the Czukay vocal at the start/before the maelstrom seems to be the missing link between Jim Morrison & Ian Curtis). Cabaret Voltaire in sinister mode on Rough Trade? Killing Joke, DNA, early The The, The Birthday Party/Boys Next Door, The Saints, or Animal Justice/Sabotage by John Cale? & The Marble Index (1968) and Desertshore (1970/71) by Nico are everything stated above - definite relatives of parts of Closer and Unknown Pleasures. & another pre JD example might include Time Fades Away by Neil Young...Listy stuff, but evidence that JD weren't charting their own realm. Swans, Whitehouse, Nurse with Wound, The Normal. Tuxedomoon, Chrome, The Mekons, Something's Gone Wrong Again by the Buzzcocks, Theoretical Girls...on and on the list goes. JD were not alone.
I have pointed out before that Wire did JD before JD - listen to 106 Beats That on Pink Flag, which starts off as one thing and becomes another (see Lowdown & Reuters too) - JD have ascertained the influence. Practice Makes Perfect and Heartbeat are suitably intense, while tracks on 154 like A Touching Display, Single KO, A Mutual Friend & 40 Versions chart these possible worlds. All from 1977 to 1979.
You can keep your country mile, why is it that only Joy Division are remembered? They were not alone and compared to some of their peers, they seem less exciting - which might be due to the problems that New Order presented with their patchy career, the myth Tony Wilson peddled (that has come to fruition), or the way the allure of death/suicide trumps all things (or, why Sylvia Plath means more than Dorothy Parker).
Of course, I didn't hear any Joy Division until after the fact, and that fact clouds everything."
Also from the same poster:
"20 songs that peer Joy Division of note:
*Jigsaw Feeling by Siouxsie & the Banshees *Heartbeat by Wire *3-E by Mars *Theme by PIL *Permafrost by Magazine *Mass Production by Iggy Pop *Frankie Teardrop by Suicide *Hamburger Lady by Throbbing Gristle *Abstract Nympho by Chrome *The Electrician by the Walker Brothers *Sister Europe by Psychedelic Furs *The Missionary by Josef K *Butcher by Killing Joke *Pornography by The Cure *Orphans by Teenage Jesus & the Jerks *Sketch for Summer by Durutti Column *Over the Wall by Echo & the Bunnymen *Alone by Colin Newman *Warning Sign by Talking Heads *Heart of Darkness by Pere Ubu"
Read the rest of the comments for more info if you like.
Martin Hannett's production added a ton to Joy Division. He is extremely important to their studio sound. Here's another example of his great work:
There's a good movie about Ian Curtis called "Control." It's not a documentary but it captures his tormented existence very well. And the actor who plays him looks so much like him that you think you're actually watching the real Ian Curtis.
This is my favorite New Order song today (sometimes it changes around a little). Is it true that it is about the JFK assassination? I'd never heard that before.
New Order, "1963"
Ha, the guy quoted in R70's post sounds a lot like somebody I know. He used to talk to me about music like that all the time. I miss it. :(
Any other fans here?
Great quote from someone who saw Joy Division live: "The best gig I have ever been to in my life was Joy Division blowing The Buzzcocks offstage at West Runton Pavilion in 1979. Although everything becomes rose tinted with the mists of time, the sheer energy in the room that night created by the hypnotic, trance-like Curtis can’t be described fully. He was so focused with an incredible self-belief in the the music they were creating that it sucked you into the vortex of noise they created."
Wow, I just stumbled upon this on youtube. It's about an hour of live footage from three different Joy Division shows:
Is r9 the OP? I feel like this thread was created so some snotty queen could bitch at someone for not knowing more about these two random, old ass bands.
Anyway, I liked Joy Div better. New Order were boring. My favorite song by NO was that kind of boppy country-ish one from the pov of a returning soldier... no idea what it was called...
Love vigilantes, looked it up
'In A Lonely Place' was only a demo(I've heard there are three different version), but I think it could've been one of Joy Division's very best songs. It's morbid and haunting, like the last three songs on 'Closer'. I beleive it was the last song that Ian Curtis did vocals for. You could tell that he was in a dire state of mind.
This is the way, step inside.
Perfect Kiss, long version (10 minutes?) for best song.
Worst song? Hmmmm...some of the weaker stuff from the last decade and a half. The later albums had some decent songs but even then you could hear the going through the motions vibes.
A few years ago I cottoned onto the fact my favorite band from the 80's was basically releasing some variation of a "best of" for the last 20 years or so.
I'm also one of the blasphemers who thinks NO was better than JD. I also liked World in Motion/English footie anthem.
Mother I tried please believe me,
I'm doing the best that I can.
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through,
I'm ashamed of the person I am.
WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN?
Not sure if any of them are still recording but I think Peter Hook turns up occasionally at music festivals in the UK.
American tour next month. Buy your ticket yet?
New Order: a marvellously unexpected rebirth
Bernard Sumner and Gillian Gilbert reflect on Joy Division, Peter Hook and 30 years of chaos
Good news, R92....maybe.
I had no idea they were back together and touring. Foolishly I believed Sumner a couple of years ago when he said that didn't want to make music with them anymore.
The U.S. tour dates are very limited, but I might have to try to catch one of those shows.
Most of Joy Division's songs are funeral musicd: reary, haunting and depressing. They are without a doubt brilliant though.
I can only listen to the music in certain moods. I do like The Eternal and Love Will Tear Us Apart very much.
Power Corruption Lies -- "Dance music for burned out punks."
Regret & World
Both songs bring back dark, ugly memories though...strange that I still like them.
Maybe I've forgotten the name and the address of everyone I've ever known, there's nothing I regret...
I never really got into JD, I think I need to revisit their brief catalog.
Favorite NO songs: Your Silent Face, True Faith, Subculture 12" mix
Favorite videos: Touched By the Hand of God, True Faith
Least favorite songs: Bizarre Love Triangle (very overrated and overplayed), Fine Time
This weekend I re-listened to One True Passion to see if I still hate it.
This is from when Peter Hook allegedly was upset about Bernie having success with the Electronic side project and so did his own and called the band Revenge.
As a New Order and Electronic fan I bought this CD as soon as it came out. I tried hard to like it, but never have. Every few years I play it again to see if there is anything on it that might catch my fancy. The attached song (Big Bang) is the only song that I like.
New Order and Erasure were the music of my early formative years along with The Cure, Psychedelic Furs, and a few others. "Bizarre Love Triangle" is my favorite New Order song, but they had a lot of really good ones.
Read just recently that New Order is to record new songs in 2013
Just watched the Joy Division doc that IFC ran last week. It was interesting to hear the rest of the band talk about the Ian Curtis story since I didn't know much about the history. Learning about his mental state gives me better appreciation for his lyrics.
But unfortunately I really find Ian's voice uncomfortable to listen to. I think that's why JD never appealed to me as much as New Order.
Bernie Sumner talks about Peter Hook being a son-of-a-bitch, and New Order working on new music without him next year.
Too late for East Coasters, but New Order is scheduled to be on Jimmy Kimmel Live tonight.
r17 I disagree. Even though I like Joy Division better, New Order is far superior. Far superior.
Song: Atmosphere overall
For New Order I'm very fond of Technique and songs like All The Way
Who cares about videos, they're especially irrelevant for this band but obviously True Faith is great as is Atmosphere '88
Worst: the early Warsaw demos like Gutz are hideous as are the last days of New Order
I'm wondering if there will be more cities and/or dates added for this summer tour. They sure aren't hitting a good portion of the usual U.S. venues.
They're coming to Philadelphia on July 26th. I would LOVE to go.
New Order plan to release new EP this year
Published Thursday, Jun 27 2013, 19:52 BST | By Tom Eames
New Order have announced plans to release a new EP later this year.
Keyboard player Gillian Gilbert has revealed that the band have been writing new songs and hope to record them this September "once the kids have all gone back to school".
The band - comprising Gilbert, her husband Stephen Morris, Bernard Sumner, Phil Cunningham and Tom Chapman - have decided to release an EP instead of waiting for enough material to fill a full album, reports NME.
Gilbert said: "We're waiting on Bernard's lyrics. But it's been sunny this week, so he can't possibly write when it's sunny, but we want to do things now.
"We don't want to be like the old New Order and keep everyone waiting for years, we want to be the new New Order. We've been writing in short bursts, so we'll just work on four songs at a time instead of waiting another two years to finish an album."
New Order will headline Transmission 005 at Jodrell Bank on July 7, prompting rumours that fellow performer Johnny Marr may reunite with Electronic bandmate Sumner.
Gilbert said of that possibility: "It'd be nice, wouldn't it? You never know, do you?"
She added: "We're all really looking forward to playing there. We all went to see The Flaming Lips a few years ago when they played there, so when the chance came up to do it ourselves we jumped at it.
"The stage is right next to the radio telescope, and while The Flaming Lips were on it moved around. It was quite a sight."
When asked if New Order plan to stay together for the time being, Gilbert added: "We did one year, and then another, and now we're writing and planning to release more music next year. It'll come to an end one day, but we don't know when.
"You can never tell with New Order. Just when you think the band is coming to an end, it takes off again".
Not New Order without Hooky. That's like Chic without Bernard Edwards.
me and R6 are soulmates. Those are my faves.
I think New Order is the guest band on Jimmy Fallon tonight.
Run 2 is tricksy but I do love it. I want Gordon Gano to do a cover.
I used to love this band and will always have a soft spot for everything they've done up to and including "Republic". Once all the internal bickering and public airing of dirty laundry started, their music went to shit ("Waiting for the dumper call", anyone?) These days, I just couldn't be bothered with their new stuff or making a conscious effort to see them in concert.
Power Corruption & Lies is my favorite album cover.
I was blown away when that record ( I know) came out. I had to replace it from wearing it out. It has been on Rolling Stone's 100 greatest albums of all time for more than 20 years.
Transmission is my favourite. I've seen both Joy Division and New Order live, Joy Division had more energy, the room was alive. Each time I've seen New Order they've had a fight. Twice someone has walked off stage. Good live band but you can't guarantee getting the whole set.
New Order did Love Vigilantes from Low Life tonight on Jimmy Fallon.
Sounded pretty good. Bernie’s vocal was not what I would call solid. Gillian is a little thicker, but otherwise looked the same as forever ago.
[quote]Who cares about videos, they're especially irrelevant for this band
What a stupid thing to say. New Order is FAMOUS for hiring visual artists and filmmakers to shoot their videos, at least the earlier ones.
I love the whole Power, Corruption and Lies album by new Order. It remains one of my favorite albums of all time....
Sumner was just on stage at Lallapalooza with The Killers.
I didn't realize it, but he has a broken leg.
Apparently he's keeping on with the scheduled tour dates though.
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