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20 kids and counting! Michelle Duggar announces she's pregnant again
Michelle Duggar and her husband Jim Bob are expecting their 20th child, the couple revealed exclusively to TODAY.
"We are so excited," Michelle Duggar told TODAY Moms before the broadcast. Now three and a half months pregnant, the mom of 19 says she was actually surprised to discover that she's expecting again at 45. "I was not thinking that God would give us another one, and we are just so grateful."
The super-sized family stars in its own reality TV show, “19 Kids and Counting,” on TLC (guess they will have to update the title!).
When the Duggars visited TODAY last June, it was the longest Michelle had gone without a pregnancy in more than 20 years. Backstage, she told TODAY Moms that her baby days might be over – and she was fine with that. But the Duggars have always said they leave their family planning up to God, eschewing birth control.
“When we look at Josie … even knowing that we went through the challenge that we did, we would do it again,” Michelle told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira last year from the family home in Springdale, Ark.
Michelle Duggar’s last pregnancy was fraught with danger. She suffered from gall-bladder problems as well as preeclampsia. In order to save her life, doctors delivered daughter Josie three and a half months prematurely – she weighed only one pound, six ounces at birth, and endured a series of health emergencies, including a perforated bowel. Josie eventually went home with the rest of the Duggar family, and is now a healthy toddler who will celebrate her second birthday in December.
“The precious life that we see here is not a coincidence,” Michelle Duggar told TODAY last summer. “I just know that it is a miracle. I don’t take that for granted. I know that God is the one who gives life, and I’m just so grateful and thankful. We would welcome another if He saw fit, but we’ll wait and see.”
Michelle told TODAY Moms that she's over her first-trimester morning sickness, has been indulging her cravings for dill pickles, and is feeling great. She said her doctors have given her the green light for this pregnancy, and so far she hasn't had any health worries. For the past year, she said, she's been working out five or six days a week: "I'm really in better shape than I've been in 20 years."
The Duggars' 19 children, who range in age from 23 years to 23 months, are: Joshua, Jana, John-David, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn-Grace, Josie.
The kids thought family patriarch Jim Bob was joking when he broke the news that they would have a new brother or sister, Michelle said. They lined the family up on the staircase for a photo, she recalled, and Jim Bob said, "Smile -- Mom's going to have another baby!"
"Their mouths dropped," Michelle said, laughing at the memory. "They all looked at me to see if he was joking."
Jackson, age 7, immediately started rooting for another boy. They'll find out the gender around Christmas, Michelle told TODAY Moms.
Jim Bob told TODAY Moms that he's thrilled for their 20th child. "Michelle and I both feel like some of the most blessed parents in the world. Our children are so sweet... we are so grateful to God."
And, he adds, "We didn't want to stop on an odd number."
The season finale of "19 Kids and Counting" airs tonight on TLC, and you can catch a special on the family's travels to Scotland and Ireland on Sunday on TLC.
- Just saw the "news" on the People website and knew it would make it onto DL. I'm grateful that most of the comments on the People site are toward the negative. I'm not sure who the positive ravers are - stuck at home mommies? other evangelicals? pregnant fetishists?
- Please die during childbirth!
- These are sick people.
That last baby almost died and will likely have permanent disabilities because of its premature and medically complicated birth.
CPS should step in.
- Oh my lord.
The MSM is complicite.
- I hope they call this one Jujubee
- The sick thing is that since they are Quiverfull they believe that their children are all blessings from God, regardless of any help they might need later on down the line. Their youngest child, Josie, is very ill and has obvious developmental delays but they will never get that child proper treatment because Quiverfull people do not believe in it at all and consider it a challenge God placed before them.
I wish their children no harm in this life. But fuck Missus and Mr. Duggar right up the ass! They are just brainwashed Quiverfull folks!
- Time to roll out the vagina / clown car gags.
- Oh God. Why?
- Great, there goes that iPod I wanted for Christmas.
Duggar children # 7, 11, 13, 14 and 16.
- Isn't it about time for this bitch to go through "the change?"
- "I was not thinking that God would give us another one, and we are just so grateful."
No dear, God did not give you that child. Your husband's tiny dick gave you that child.
Do these insufferable fools know anything?
- Free Jinger!
- At least I ADOPTED all 20 of MY kids!
- Hope see dies in a grease fire.
- Can I please get married and have nine months or so where I don't have to take care of a bunch of kids?
- Shouldn't the children be performing in a band by now?
- R6, and nothing in your first paragraph will ever be mentioned by the media who will fawn all over the Duggars and their latest news. I'm willing to bet that not one interviewer will ask about the health and special needs of the youngest child, or if they do, it will be a passing reference.
- Do they ever see other children or do they just play amongst themselves? I have a feeling there's a "Flowers in the Attic" situation going on with those people.
- Fuck TLC for supporting these people and their warped evangelicalism as well as all of the other excessive breeding shows. (Whatever happened to TLC showing things like "Trading Places" and other shows?)
- And here I thought there were 20 already!
Maybe this one can be named "Justsayno"?
- Do you think she ever steps on her beef cutains?
- If they are going to "leave their family planning up to God" they should do the same with the delivery.
- Aren't they out of baby names by now?
- R24: "Jizzinmapants"?
- Name it "Justjackoff," an inspiration for his father.
- Which will they run out of first, names beginning with J or ovaries?
- Bitch should be arrested.
- Can someone explain the Today Show's need to endlessly fawn over this freak show?
- Now that they're on TV, they'll be able to afford a round of IVF every single tear as long as they live! Guiness book of world records, here comes Michelle Duggar, mother of forty-seven!
TLC should be ashamed to be enabling those horrible people.
- Strange that on the day the Duggars make this announcements, Mississippi is vote on the "personhood" amendment.
- I've boycotted TLC for awhile. I think I'll write another nasty letter to them today.
- Given their religious leanings, they wouldn't use IVF. And, although children are a blessing, there's a limit to being fruitful and multiplying. Prudence is called for here.
- I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that this woman will die during childbirth one day.
- And to think you bitches tore me a new one.
- It's not like the kids looked to her for their daily needs, R34. The tragedy would be if the older girls died.
- I hate to say this, but the older she gets, the more likely she will have a Down's Syndome child. What happens when she has 2 or 3 in a row? Will she stop then, or just decide God wants her to have a bunch of defective children, some of whom may die?
They talked a while ago about having kids through some sort of artifical means. At that point it's not "How many kids will God give us?" it's being a freak show for money.
TLC seems to think they are running a medical oddity show, or a science study about What Happens When Crazy People Have Too Many Kids.
These are human children, not lab rats. They need to quit propping up thse wackos and let them fend for themselves. Maybe then Jim Bob will miraculously remember where he left the condoms.
- We should be so lucky R34. No, this woman was clearly well made for birthin' babies and is obviously addicted to being pregnant.
- If God wants us to have retards, then retards we shall have!
- What's sad to me is the children are not encouraged to go to a higher learning institute and are stuck in the same cycle as their parents. Marry young, stay ignorant and have baby after baby.
Jim Bob is a con artist, declaring his home a church for tax evasion purposes.
- If I had 20 cats I'd be called an animal hoarder.
- I was watching some show one time about the real Borgias and they had a skeleton of one of the Borgia wives on display. Her pelvic bones were pointed out as being "scooped" from so many (7)childbirths. It literally looked like a slide so I can only imagine Mama Duggar's is like a Banzai Pipeline water ride and they just pop down that chute. I'm actually surprised her uterine walls and muscles can hold a fetus in at all.
- R34 is right, although mostly because it looks like she'll keep having kids til she dies.
- R41, if you had 20 cats, you wouldn't be called at all.
- [quote] I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that this woman will die during childbirth one day.
We an only hope.
Maybe during #20's arrival.
- If they are so into having kids, why not adopt? There are tons of kids out there who need homes. Seems like the Christian thing to do - assuming they are pro-life and all. Because being pro-life means foster care and adoption agencies is over loaded with unwanted kids.
- I hate this bitch with the intensity of a billions of suns.
When you have so many kids that your not taking care of your staff of children are raising them cps should take them away.
Kids shouldn't be raising kids.
Don't we have child labor laws.
I swear this bitch does this for attention.
She's trying to get into guinness world records.
Just just your below average fat, ugly straight chick with low self esteem that hoards babies.
If she couldn't have kids she would then hoard cats.
If hoarders are forced to get help then why isn't someone regulating this bitch.
Look for her to be on dr.drew he loves this type of shit.
- Wouldn't it be funny if the baby was black?
- So, have any of her eldest children start having children with mom?
- r47, I cannot stand her either, but save some of your venom for the moronic self-serving idiot who keeps impregnating her, why doncha?
- That's gross.
- It's like a puppy mill. What would China do with these people? Imprison them? Not a bad idea.
- [quote]"I was not thinking that God would give us another one, and we are just so grateful."
I don't mean to offend, but if "God" told me I had to drop 20 kids out of my hoo-ha, I'd tell God to go eat a bag of dicks.
- [quote]If they are so into having kids, why not adopt?
The Quiverfull do not believe in adoption because they are taught that the sins of the parents who placed the child for adoption live within the child.
- These people are disgusting and selfish. God is not sending you children you dumb bitch. People control their own bodies. They are obsessed with cranking out babies and seem totally off their rockers! 20 kids???? She must be so stretched the kids just walk out now.
- R54-for reals?
Give me sum 'dat old time religion!
- R56 Yep. I have read about Quiverfull and that is the only reason why I know of this crap. Because it is all crap.
- This really does seem to be a mental health issue at this point.
- Her husband needs to practice bukake.
- How can her husband even do it to completion anymore? Talk about feeling like you are making sweet love to an open window...
- With 19 kids to take care of (ok only 18 now since the oldest is married) when the hell do they have the time or the energy to have sex?
- I wonder how she would react if he ever pulled out by mistake and dropped his load on her stomache or face. I can only imagine the hysteria. "My child!"
DROPPIN FUCKIN LOADS ALL OVER FUCKIN GLASSES!
- They are not taking any public assistance, so I choose not to give a shit.
- [quote] They are not taking any public assistance, so I choose not to give a shit.
They pay NO taxes because they have declared their house a "home church" so we are supporting every last one of them.
- What, R64? How do you go about declaring your house a home church? I want to do that.
- Today Show, goddammit!!! Stop the feeding this nonsense to the American public. And stop giving these morons a platform for this religious freak show carvival.
Have they at all considered the impossible and harmful global footprint they're indelibly placing on the earth's resources?!
- Wear a fucking condom you asshole. Enough!
- She needs her hole sewn up and he needs to get clipped.
- droppin loads.
- The older kids take care of the younger kids while they fuck like rabbits, R61.
- "It's like throwing a a hot dog down a hallway!"
Jim-Bob, googling "Fleshlight"
- It matters r63 because the children are not their property. They are American citizens. They are not being raised to be independant adults. They are being brainwashed and exploited for their labour. It would make my day if their 17yr old teenage daughter sued them for years unpaid childcare so she could go away to university. Can you go to university if you are homeschooled?
Kids who grow up in these types of environments (super religious, homeschooled, cults, isolated) find it very difficult to make a life for themselves if they choose to or are forced to leave. We've all heard the stories about the Mormon teenage boys forced to leave their communities and the Amish who want to break away after their Rumspringa.
Where will the gay duggar child be in 15 years? What about the one with the untreated mental illness?
Who is going to care for the kids when the mom dies during labour next time? That last question was rhetorical.
- Michelle doesn't even go into labor anymore. She just squats like a sumo wrestler in the aisle at Walmart, shits out another one, and continues shopping.
- I don't care if you call me a dlisted shill, he is fucking SPOT ON on this one!
- Nice try, R63.
- If its a boy they are going to name it Jigaboo and Jemima for a girl.
- [quote]They are not taking any public assistance, so I choose not to give a shit.
Aren't they claiming to be a Church and earn all their income tax-free? If they use public resources, then they're parasites.
- Yes R77. They pay no taxes.
I want to hear more about this...
"in my earlier post about the Duggars, I mentioned that I had heard that Josh, the eldest, molested his siblings at one point but that was all swept under the rug."
I would not be surprised at all. Those horny teenaged boys not allowed to sow any wild oats or be alone with girls who don't belong in the family.
- What if it were a black family reproducing like this? Do you think they would be getting puffball fluff media coverage the way the lily-white Duggars are? Are you kidding? It would be quite the opposite.
- Does the TLC show even mention the Quiverfull movement or the Duggars' religious beliefs?
- I can't imagine what sort of shape her vagina and uterus will be in after 20 pregnancies. She probably needs a twist tie to keep it closed.
- "This really does seem to be a mental health issue at this point."
The DSM-IV doesn't cover the obsessive need to do anything to get on TV, no matter how destructive. But it should, and it's what's motivating the Duggar parents at this point. Breeding has made them rich and famous, to the point where they'll NEVER stop. If they stop, they lose their TV freak show value.
- Of course, all the kids have to have "J" names to honor the father, but no "M" names for the mom. It's all about Jim-Bob. He orders that wife of his to have yet another baby--even though the last one nearly killed her--and, being the good Christian wife, she does everything her husband says without question.
- Well at least their oldest boy got out of that home.
He's now starring as "Kenneth" on "30 Rock".
- We need to start picking baby names because that kid could just fall out of there at any time without warning.
Jumping Jehosephat Duggar
Jeremiah Johnson Duggar
Jermajesty Prince Duggar
I'm no good with girls' names, although I think Jennifer Juniper Duggar sounds nice.
- Yikes, just found this FAQ.
JimBob won't let the girls go to college, but the boys can (although if they are over 18, they could had they not been brainwashed to believe they shouldn't)
- It's not really anything like "birth" anymore, is it? Somewhere in the third trimester, the little fucker claws its way through the duct tape and falls out in the ladies department at Target.
- Love this.
"After their kissing in front of a hundred of their closest family and friends, Anna looked less than pleased as she realized that her first kiss wasn't like a sexually charged yet wholesome fairy tale, but a sloppy fortelling of the evening ahead."
Oh, the fumbled groping she must have endured. I'll bet she still hasn't had an orgasm.
- We know what would happen, R79.
- R78 Josh Duggar felt up (for lack of a better way of putting it) a young teen aged lady back when he was a teenager himself. The kicker is that the young lady was spending the night at the Duggar home and she was asleep at the time.
The last name of the gal in question is Holt.
- I thought the J names were in honor of Jesus not Mr Dugger. I could be wrong though. Although naming your child Jinjer instead Ginger is just plain cheating.
I have no issue with them having heaps of kids provided they take on the responsibility of raising them but I watched something on the Duggers when they still had only about 16 kids and Mrs Dugger is not afraid to make those children do her work for her. I don't mean they do run of the mill chores, I mean she has tiny little slaves. The girl who was about 13 was in charge of the entire family's laundry. There were about 6 washing machines and she was made to do it all herself. And as polite as she was to the camera her bitterness showed. They also put the 4 year old in charge of getting the hot dinner rolls out of the oven. Atrocious.
I also noticed that all the kids were thin but Mrs Dugger was chubby. I thought that was odd. If she has that many kids and her husband is at work all day shouldn't she be a slip of a woman or is it because the children are doing all the housework she can just lie around procreating and never has a chance to work off that pregnancy fat.
- Contrary to the post upthread, Quiverfull adherents are not opposed to adoption. The quote is, "God does not grow every family in the same way."
- I saw the TV show where they built the house... and I still think the oldest son is gay.
And you know damn well the youngest one is gay, since the more older brothers you have, the bigger the chance that you're gay.
- [quote]Can someone explain the Today Show's need to endlessly fawn over this freak show?
I complain loudly to TODAY at nbc.com every time these disgusting people are on the show.
- R62 In the immortal words of Monty Python - every sperm is sacred.
- Their oldest is balding and pudgy. He looks almost as old as his dad.
- More power to them, I say. They aren't on food stamps or welfare at least. I do feel sorry for the oldest girl, however.
- [quote]They aren't on food stamps or welfare at least.
They don't pay taxes because they have their home listed as a church. You can be certain that there is cheating in other ways, too.
- If you think they get no assistence from the state... you're delusional.
Did you see that house they built? Or all the food they go through? And only the man works, not the wife?
Seriously, I want someone to do a complete audit of their finances.
- R19 I'm wondering the same thing.
One would think that this woman would want to give her uterus and vagina a break and NOT be getting pregnant so much, having so many kids to take care of, and going into labor and a painful childbirth 20 times or more!
- How much is TLC paying and is that taxed?
R97 why the older girl?
- Heh I found this at the link R86 posted:
Q. Are they the only family that is like this?
A. No, in a few episodes of their show they've shown their friends, The Bates Family, who have just as many children and dress them even more old fashioned than the Duggars.
Q. How does Michelle take care of so many children?
A. I think the better question is "how doesn't she?" Since Michelle always has at least 3 little ones under the age of 4 every time she's pregnant, the older daughters take care of them. JimBob has said he can't even remember their birthdays, and the children have a sign up sheet for spending time with the parents.
Q. Does JimBob have a pregnancy fetish?
A. Obviously. Michelle also seems to have an almost orgasmic reaction to being in labor.
- They've had one girl doing all the meals since she was 14. That's 63 meals served per day, by one 14 year old.
That mom must be lying in bed breast-feeding and eating bon bons in between pregnancies, propped on one fat haunch like Jabba the Hutt, while her daughters are treated like slaves.
Peel me a grape, J-dottir.
- [quote]having so many kids to take care of,
She doesn't take care of any kids. The older ones are assigned to do household chores and take care of the younger kids. She does nothing but spread her legs for a daily fucking.
- Michelle's (fake) Twitter account
- So the entire Duggar clan is going to descend on Ireland and Scotland? Why? What did those poor people do to deserve this bizarre family descending on them?
- R101, mainly because whenever I see the girl on tv, she looks like she desperately wants to get the hell out of there. I can't imagine how much is dumped on her, along with the other girls.
- Does this bitch just get tired of being pregnant? I mean really? 20 pregnancies?
- Didn't some doctor surmise that she was possibly addicted to the hormone cocktail released by pregnancy?
- ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
Patsy Stone, 39
- I think Jim-Bob should be thrown in prison for abuse.
- Raja naba doa gola wookie nipple pinchy...
Jabba the Duggar
- You know there's a shitload of sexual abuse going on there.
- Didn't she leave her last ill child in the hospital so she could go out and protest a gas station selling beer?
Michelle really knows how to prioritize when it comes to her family.
- At this point she's more clown car than woman.
- Jesus Christ, haven't these two losers heard of contraception or even better vasectomy? I find this couple totally reprehensible and disgusting. There is NO purpose to having 20 children. How the hell do you feed, clothe and nurture 20 human beings to any effect at all?
- And home school them to be ignorant homophobes who believe in "Creatinism." Child abuse.
- Jim Bob has said (on several occasions) that he can't keep Michelle off of him.
- I have a serious question and need a birthing frau to weigh in here. What must this do to her vagina? Does it not get so stretched out that she no longer can even feel sex, let alone when she has to pee? I also cannot imagine how loose it must feel to her husband.
- For you R120. She's probably at least partially incontinent right now.
- [quote]Jesus Christ, haven't these two losers heard of contraception or even better vasectomy?
Religious freaks like the Duggars don't believe in any form of artificial birth control, because it's "against God's will." I don't know where in the Bible they found God saying not to use contraception, but it's a big deal with people like this.
- It's a lot more sinister than that R122. Have as many little brainwashed soldiers for Jesus as they can and then hopefully they can infiltrate top levels of gov't but Jim Bob isn't encouraging his kids to go to college though Jim Bob did campaign for some local political position and lost.
- They need to sterilize that brood sow and her sex fiend husband. They're a menace to society.
And for the record, the only reason they're doing this IMO, is to keep themselves in the media and the money flowing.
- Can you imagine our population if most women had 10+ kids?!
The earth can't sustain the population we have yet these fundies purport that God wants them to be fruitful.
Someone needs to inject her with something so she has a swiss cheese uterus.
- It's even worse than that, R123. I've gone on some Fundamentalist websites that refer to a study made by some right winger that says all the European and North American, predominantly white Christian countries are not having white babies at a replacement rate. Why? Because educated women don't want to be baby machines, and they marry later and have fewer kids.
These Fundie women are told, Islam will take over the world if Muslims continue having 6 kids apiece (that was the figure they used, no idea if it was true), and white Christians have 2 or less in many countries.
Then they gave statistics showing crime went up radically in majority non white societies. I read one woman's comment that seemed to say she didn't even want all those kids, but had to have them to try to hold off the deluge of violent dark skinned Muslims for just a few more years. She linked to the study mentioned above. I went to the study, and apparently it's well known in white supremist, Fundie circles. This study said it was inevitable that Muslims would take over over the world, no matter how many Fundies had tons of kids, because the population tipping point had already passed.
Then, they felt all Christians would be persecuted as they are in some Muslim countries, and wiped off the face of the earth. From the Fundie point of view, that means nobody on Earth would then be "saved" and the entire planet would be damned to hell, with no one left to convert people to Christianity. So "Christian soldiers" doesn't just mean actual fighting, they feel they are trying to save Earth from the end of Christianity, because God wants Earth to be saved from hell.
Their idea is that Muslims feel as they do, only about Islam, and are trying to populate their way into dominance, so it's a war of the babies.
Sister Mary Katherine explains it all for you.
- a war of the babies. wow.
- Actually, my very dear muslim friend who was born and raised in the occupied territories said that where he's from they do try to have as many kids as possible to help support the conflict over there.
- I told a female relative of mine how that woman is now having her 20th Child and she said how that woman is mentally ill.
- Betcha that all you queens didn't know that one of Michelle's sons is actually Josh's son and not Jim Bob's.
- I was flipping through the channels last night in my hotel, trying to find my favorites. This show was on. Apparently it was a question and answer show. Questions were either asked via interview or email. To give you an idea of their viewership:
Emailed Q: What happens if one of the boys or girls accidentally kisses someone?
A: (from Michelle) Accidentally?! How does someone kiss ACCIDENTALLY?
Was this a Flower in the Attic-related question? You be the judge.
To really turn your stomach, one woman asked how does Michelle get everyone bathed and ready for bed at the same time. Get the nearest bucket ready . . .
Michelle answers: "I'm not sure I do get them all bathed and ready at the same time. The bath water is run. I try to start with the LEAST DIRTY child first and work up from there. I also lay out their pjs before they get there bath. Its really an assembly line, I guess."
If I interrupted her answer correctly, she doesn't change the bath water between kids.
Hope I'm Never the MOST Dirty Child!!
- [quote]Michelle answers: "I'm not sure I do get them all bathed and ready at the same time. The bath water is run. I try to start with the LEAST DIRTY child first and work up from there. I also lay out their pjs before they get there bath. Its really an assembly line, I guess."
I really don't believe her. All those Fundie people are liars. She has her older kids doing all the work. No way is she givng baths and laying out their pjs.
- I don't either r132, she just walks around the house from what I have seen and trying to be cute. It is the kids that keep that house clean.
- Mothers of a litter of such a size usually wash their brood with their tongue. I bet she's had more, and merely eaten the dead ones.
- If anyone would like to learn more of Quiverfull then go to the link I am providing if you want to. It is from someone who bailed out of that cult, but they keep everything on point, properly researched, and not terribly biased at all.
- [quote] Religious freaks like the Duggars don't believe in any form of artificial birth control, because it's "against God's will." I don't know where in the Bible they found God saying not to use contraception, but it's a big deal with people like this.
Actually, they did use birth control once and she got pregnant while on the pill and miscarried. They firmly believe that that is what killed their unborn child. They go around preaching about this.
- [quote]Does it not get so stretched out that she no longer can even feel sex, let alone when she has to pee?
It's a muscle. If she exercised it by doing Kegels, it wouldn't get flabby. But she probably doesn't, so yeah, it'd be flabby. And I don't think peeing is related to the vagina part, I think peeing is a separate tube or whatever.
- Every woman is different but childbirth can really destroy a girl! Muscle or not, the vagina stretches so much it can't possibly snap back to its original shape I've personally had three larger than average babies. After the third I had to have major surgery because both my vagina and uterus dropped and were bulging outside the vagina. I know it sounds disgusting but you asked for info. My uterus was removed (hysterectomy) and the bladder had to be "suspended", or sewn back up into proper position and held up by a wire mesh. I get groped every time I fly because the mesh shows up on the full-body scan at the airport!
The reason this family has so many kids is they don't watch TV. What else is there to do when the kids are down for the night?
Link please to the info on the Duggars paying NO taxes. This I hadn't heard.
- Michelle's pussy must be like the Tauntaun in Empire Strikes Back. On a cold night, you can just curl up in it like Luke did.
And I thought they smelled bad from the outside!
- Thanks for the link, R135. Here's a quote:
22. If you or your children have been hit (other than the children being spanked) so as to leave discernable marks two hours later, and you genuinely fear that he will repeat his battering, you can take legal steps without divorcing your husband. In a moment when he is not angry, calmly inform him that the next time he physically assaults you or the kids, you are going to call the law and have him arrested. You must first resolve in your heart that you are willing to prosecute him and see him go to jail. I visit prisons every week. It is a great place to mull over the consequences of one’s deeds. And I have never met a prisoner that turned down a visit from anyone. Think about it, lady; it is a great time for writing love letters and sharing a three-minute romantic phone call once a week. Guys who get out of prison run straight home to their ladies and treat them wonderfully—for a while anyway.
But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, “What if he doesn’t repent even then?” Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce—always, forever, regardless, without exception.
- 2. Doug Phillips’ “lifeboat argument” against abortion in the case of ectopic pregnanies:
“What shall we think of Susie? Shall we bless a mother who kills her own child to save herself? Are we proud of such a woman? Shall we sing of her virtues? Perhaps we should just chalk-up her decision to feed her son to the sharks as ‘an unfortunate, but necessary evil.’ After all, she was just acting in self-defense. It was either the mother or the child. One would live and the other would die. Who could blame Mama for wanting to fight for her life, even if it meant that her son would be torn to pieces in the darkness of night?”
He's wrong BTW. Etopic pregnacies are fatal, but the child can't survive either. Fallopian tubes can't carry a baby to term. They don't stretch, they rip apart. I read yesterday, they give women with etopic pregnancies methrotrexate (a chemo drug), which usually causes them to miscarry without damage. I guess it's not to his advantage to know anatomy.
- Quote #3, David Bayly:
"The young man who pursues marriage enters a foreign land where he wages war. On the hinges of that battle lie happiness or shame.
But though a potential bride may be deeply loved, she’s also at some level the foe. To achieve victory the young man must not only win her, he must defeat her and her family, snatching her from their bosom, converting her to himself, breaking her natural bonds with father and mother, brother and sister, nurse and friend, dog and home. There’s little that’s tender about it. …
It is war, and the quicker our children understand this the better. It is war against sin. It is the breaking of families and established orders. It is secession and union all in one, penetration and insemination, not merely lacy ruffles and Pachelbel canons but velvet-gloved violence. All this courtship conceals. But it will out—in marriage if not before.
- Quote #9, on women being allowed to vote, Rev Brian Abshire:
"...God never gives women the “right” to vote (cf. 1 Tim 2:11ff)...In regards to a woman’s right to vote; if husband and wife are truly “one flesh” and the husband is doing his duty to represent the family to the wider community, then what PRACTICAL benefit does allowing women to vote provide? If husband and wife agree on an issue, then one has simply doubled the number of votes; but the result is the same.
Women voting only makes a difference when the husband and wife disagree; a wife, who does not trust the judgment of her husband, can nullify his vote. Thus, the immediate consequence is to enshrine the will of the individual OVER the good of the family thus creating divisions WITHIN the family."
I guess math is not his strong suit.
This is what we have to look forward to when these home schooled whack jobs get into office.
- r139, I LOVE the fact you know the name of the animal Luke climbed into.
- Quote 36:
“Several things are worthy of note: First, a baby is not a willful aggressor...(In fact, if “blame” is to be passed, it should rest on the mother, not the baby, since it was the mother’s body which produced the circumstances in which the baby has found himself.) The Bible makes no provision for executing an innocent party in order to help another.
Second, while the unborn baby in the case of an ectopic pregnancy may pose a threat which could materialize into a harm to the mother, the threat is not imminent in the classic sense, nor is it conclusive that the baby’s presence necessarily will cause harm. All that is known is that it might cause harm. Consequently, the murder of the baby takes place in anticipation of a statistical possibility. Here again, the biblical requirements for justifiable homicide are not met.”
In real life, no. Fallopian pregnancies aren't survivable. Considering these people are all homeschooled, they probably don't know that. There's a lot of quotes about women should die if they can't carry the baby to term. No exceptions, even if the baby isn't sustainable anyway, because it's a "failure." Does anybody know if a lot of these women die?
There's also quotes about pants, organized sports, laughing out loud, college for women, all being ungodly.
There's an interesting quote about how a woman who's being beaten goes to an elder for advice, he tells he to pray silently in front of the beating husband, saying "It may make him angry." He beats her more and she comes back with two black eyes, saying, "Are you happy now?" The elder says yes, he "rejoices" that her black eyes embarrassed the husband into showing up in the back row of the church. That was the plan - eventually the husband would mark her enough that the beatings would become public knowledge, and then the exposed husband would want forgiveness - from the church.
Babies are not the biggest problem, guys
- R144, ALL civilized beings know the name of the animal Luke climbed into. Duh. ;)
- Thank God the kids are part of the show. The money they've each earned by now will guarantee them bright futures filled with possibilities!
- "nor is it conclusive that the baby’s presence necessarily will cause harm"
Nor is it conclusive that these pricks have more than a single brain-cell between them...
Gross. Just gross.
- "Thank God the kids are part of the show. The money they've each earned by now will guarantee them bright futures filled with possibilities!"
I'm absolutely sure that the parents will prevent the kids from using the money for anything that might improve their quality of life. Hell, they'll probably spend it on IVF!
- By now the doctor can just walk in and grab the thing.
- More from "No Longer Quivering":
One of the creepiest things about Gothard and the Pearls is that they teach that happy is the only acceptable emotion. If you do not have a joyful countenance, you are publicly shaming your authorities. In other words, if the kid looks unhappy, it is a personal offense against the parents. Pearl also has nauseating quotes and anecdotes about how any time his kids expressed unhappiness or anger they were hit even harder and longer until they were cheerful. How twisted is that? These children are taught from babyhood to always be cheerful, or else they deserve a spanking. As they grow older, it is not just the fear of a spanking that causes them to keep smiling. It is the sincere belief that they are sinning with ingratitude, rebellion and more if they don’t present a happy face.
- That is just mind blowing R152. So when the kids are burdened with endless chores, they must be cheerful about it! How convenient! It does however explain Michelle Duggers almost maniacal cheeriness though.
She's not allowed to be anything else.
- W & W for R151!!!
- R135, fascinating website. It seems like a cult, like everyone is brainwashed. I hope at least one of those Duggar kids can break away and live their life how they want to.
- I'd like to see one of the kids escape the clan and write a book.
- Josiah looks like family.
- At this point her husband's probably able to walk into her vagina with a "Hustler," jack off on one of her ovaries, verify conception, and walk out to let her know the sex of the child.
- Is that why all those crazy Dominionist wives have "joyful" on their blogs R152?
- "any time his kids expressed unhappiness or anger they were hit even harder and longer until they were cheerful."
So THAT'S why the girls are cheerful for the TV cameras, even though they're spending their teen days doing end less laundry, cooking, and babysitting instead of getting an education.
- They really don't know that they're not getting an education.
- "Discipleship" homeschooling, recommneded by Quiverful and other Fundie authorities, is when kids "learn by doing," in other words, little or no book schooling. If mom bakes a cake, they help and that's "homeschooling." Here's some quotes that explain it from a homeschooling blog:
"I feel that God has been wanting me to REALLY let go of all the "normal", "modern", and "unGodly" methods of learning, but I haven't really put my finger on how to carry it out. The method I found is called "discipleship homeschooling." You live life with your kids and they learn things by living life with you. That does not mean that they don't do anything academic, but the focus is not academics for academics sake."
"My dh[dear husband] and I have come to the decision through prayer, that we will let go of most of our curriculum. My job as a mother is to nurture my children and teach them the ways of God. The most important thing is that they have a relationship with God and Jesus, **not that they know everything their peers know.** I will be relaxing our homeschooling and letting my children be children.
However we will still be using some workbooks for some curriculum because my children love to do them. I know my kids will learn what they need to know on their own when they are ready, and if that time never comes, I will have to find ways to make it enjoyable for them to learn about it...through daily life...not through textbooks."
"The PRIMARY goal of Christian education, regardless of where it takes place, should be DISCIPLESHIP, rather than ACADEMICS. Now, that's not to say we throw academics out. But, from a Christian perspective, what good is having a well-educated scholar, if that person isn't following the Lord?"
Reading the posts, many of the children seem to prefer to go to school and the parents fight to talk them out of it. Poor kids. It also sounds like a lot of these women find teching their children "too hard," so rather than sending them to school, they end their education, and call it "Christian."
If you want to know who the mobs are at the GOP debates, it's these people. Barely literate, against all women in the workplace, voting or owning property, and they don't believe a man sleeping with a single woman is committing adulty. It's only adultery if he's helping her cheat on her husband. That's why Herman Cain is getting a pass. The women are whores in their eyes for working, so they have it coming.
Jesus H. Christ!
- Sorry about my crappy typing. I wasn't home-schooled.
- At the rate these idiots are going, they will get their own float in the Rose Bowl Parade. I would like to know who owns TLC and is therefore PAYING these people to be horrible parents. The main whore is 45 years old. When is menopause going to save the human race from this one woman/man's desire to overpopulate the planet?
Jesus, are you reading this? Look at all the fucktards your fictionalized life have created.
- R162 Thanks for the link. Those people are fucking nuts. They apparently think God will take care of their kids, thus the lack of education for their children. They contradict themselves. They say they are good parents yet they are not educating their children!
If you really want something to laugh at go to the section of the board called Christian Issues.
- "then what PRACTICAL benefit does allowing women to vote provide?"
Wow, did anyone tell these fuckers it's the year 2011 and not 1911?
- It's probably a topic for a separate thread but when did this home schooling, especially for religious families, first become widely practiced? I'm wondering when we'll see a large segment of the home-schooled population enter the working world (from what I've read so far, I doubt they'll enter college).
- I don't understand how the home schooled kids get into college. Tim Tebow was homeschooled by his Fundie mother, even in high school. When he went off to college, she found a place to live that was just a few blocks from the athletic students dorm.
- What I want to know is when somebody is going to have the political courage to stop home-schooling.
A few kids, like bullied kids, are benfited by it, most are kids with control freak nutjob parents that want to isolate their kids from the world, either because of crazy religious ideas, parents are drunk or drugged and don't want anybody to know, mentally ill and can't pass for normal in public, hoarders keeping a filthy house, molesting or beating their kids, or whatever. They aren't doing for the kids' benefit, they're doing it for their own.
I'm tired of crazy people being left alone to brainwash/torture/neglect kids with no supervision. And I bet home-schooled kids are going into religious "universities" with no entry requirements, so they can pump out ignoramouses with a "degree."
Oral Roberts "Law" School
- I thought home-schooled kids had to pass standardized tests?
- R170 In Arkansas it is just a common courtesy they offer up with that. Homeschooled children in Arkansas have to take their standardized tests but their scores have no relevance on anything at all.
The Duggar's are Quiverfull and they do not use a formally academic homeschool mode of teaching or study. The fellow who runs Quiverfull, Bill Gothard, does not allow that at all.
- In some states, apparently there's no standards at all. Quite a few moms on the message boards that are new at "discipleship" homeschooling say they were overwhelmed at the amount of teaching involved to get the kids to pass standardized tests, but then some Fundie jackass recommended that they quit worrying about those tests and just teach their kids to obey God, nothing else matters.
It's probably just about impossible for them to teach their kids, because they were homeschooled themselves and don't know any of the stuff they're supposed to be teaching, also they're breastfeeding, changing diapers and serving meals for 8, 10 and fifteen kids. Even if you're doing it with the unending servitiude of the younger kids, you still have to do some of it yourself. Nobody in their right mind in state government could possibly think these kids' parents are capable of giving them an education, even if they wanted to. And they're being told by their cult leaders that education is bad and God doesn't want your kids to have an education. The kids can't even get athletic scholarships, because God doesn't like team sports either.
It's pretty obvious the top people in these cults want a mass of dumb, obedient slaves that are too illiterate to ever escape. They're building army of serfs. With all the emphasis on obedience, what are these people really being bred for? What are they going to be called on to do by their leaders? Overthrow the "unGodly" government and bring "heaven on earth" by force, so the church leaders can gain power? It's scary.
- There's a woman poster on the Television Without Pity website, the Duggar thread, that mentioned she had Fundie in-laws with 14 kids. The wife died in childbirth, husband died 6 months later. The oldest girls were 12 and thirteen, and expected to raise all those kids by themselves. The family was broken up. The kids were sent to different families, she got 4 boys. They were illiterate and needed thousands of dollars of therapy and tutoring. The mother had already been told not to have any more kids, but did it anyway. Now the kids have lost both parents, their sibs, their home, and have to make up a lifetime of education. At least they weren't older.
She was pissed TLC shows the Duggars living in a nice house, she says they should show it like it really is, 8 kids in 2 full sized beds in a 12 x 12 room, eating hot dogs as their only meat, dirt poor, living in squalor. She calls it whitewashing a cult. I hope she posts again.
- I think 'The War Of The Babies' would make an awesome movie. Where's that scriptwriter ??
- As others have already asked, how do these home schooled kids go out into the world? I assume they get jobs with and/or through their churches or other evangelical related locations. I can't imagine them going into the secular world and dazzling everyone with their knowledge, unless they're intelligent enough to keep quiet.
- I read yesterday that guy that is the head of the religion tells them they have to be self employed. Men aren't allowed to work for other men. There's some question that maybe this means they can't apprentice under anybody either. How they're supposed to get job skills or training I don't know. Women aren't allowed to work outside the home at all, so my guess is that down the road somebody's going to uncover some situation with starving, neglected kids.
Of course welfare is probably a given, also the Duggars are a "church" so they don't pay taxes, but it also means they can't go to somebody else's church either apparently, to keep the tax deductible status.
- [quote]Of course welfare is probably a given
The Quiverfull cult does not allow anyone to go on Welfare or anything like that. They consider it to be beholden to the government and state if you do.
So, a very fair amount of these families are truly in abject poverty all third world style as a result.
Quiverfull is a really sick religion. Their main fellow is Bill Gothard and he is a really odd fellow.
- I don't know why networks such as TLC are allowed to televise child abuse as entertainment. I completely believe that children in these situations - the Duggers, Gosselins, are being exploited and emotionally abused.
- Quiverfull poverty article, with lots of good links. It states many Quiverful families don't have running water, little or no heat, and can't afford electricity to wash clothes, so they use a washtub. Kids sleep on the floor in blankets.
Here's an (edited for space) story about a daughter of wealthy Quiverfull leaders, with a well-off brother living in a big house. She's married with 8 kids in a house with no running water, or heat other than one wood stove:
The kids, oldest age 12, haul water from the stock tank (after breaking the ice), fetch water in 5 gallon buckets, and live in a freezing cold house. They had a wood stove problem that caused smoke to billow into the freezing house. The kids donned googles to avoid the smoke, and opened doors and windows to air out the place.
"Finally, to escape the smoke, they went outside in freezing weather to run laps around the house to stay warm...Serene cries after finding the only way to breath[e] in her home is by laying with her baby on the floor...Her reproof to herself is that she “popped their [the children] bubble with my tirade of negativity.” I’m not sure who told Serene that children are brainless idiots but I have no doubt that her little blessings already knew that they were cold and tired. (cont)
"Serene never mentions fixing any of the problems or how her loving husband is rectifying the mess. She explains about her “Inanimate Filter” [i.e.], if something doesn’t have a “soul or spirit” then it isn’t worth worrying about.
Sometimes events are important even though they have no soul because they effect someone who does. Serene is promoting lying...And this type of behavior is not sustainable.
What example is it to [children] that their parents choose not to provide basic needs like adequate shelter...it’s irresponsible. It’s not like she is on a mission in Africa and has to live in a grass hut to reach the people. Serene is suffering because her husband and family refuse to [help] and Serene herself doesn’t have the power to make it better. She comforts herself with the idea that she is being “refined” and “sanctified” when in reality she is just being neglected and abused by everyone around her.
"What sort of witness is she for Christ? What do people see when they look at this poor mother of many shivering in the cold? They see a woman who is denied basic care. She is not allowed to make her predicament better. Her husband is comfortable forcing her to live in these conditions. What did [her nearby family] do to help? It is disgusting to think that there is a permanent problem with the water pipe and everyone around her just shrugs. No one takes her husband to task. These leaders in the patriarchal movement turn the other way when their own daughter is suffering. How will the unbelievers “know we are Christians by our love” if we eat our own?
- "In the P.S. to this story Serene adds a little update they had some severe flooding that destroyed her downstairs flooring. She congratulates herself for keeping her “Inanimate Filter” on...They now live completely upstairs and she feels no occasion to be concerned that her situation is very difficult and may not change. She has completely disassociated from reality. What does her future hold?"
[Apparently there's an untreated mold issue now]. The author left Quiverfull.
To give you some comparison, my grandparents lived on a very poor, small farm in Missouri in the 1920's. They had to fetch water from a well Grandpa dug. He hand-built and designed the house. It had a wood stove, all bedrooms were built around it with the stove in the center. A wood stove heated the kitchen. The used an outhouse and kerosene lamps as this woman probably does. The house was warm and lit. The kids slept in beds. Grandpa knew how to install a wood stove safely, so no "smoke pouring into house" issues. And they were VERY poor, I have pictures.
"Stock tank" is probably a large plastic or metal above ground tank of water stored for the livestock. They can be solar or electric heated and insulated to avoid freezing at very low temps. Where that water comes from, if there is no well or pump water, I don't know. Maybe it's water from before their plumbing broke, or they are refilling it by carrying water in from somewhere adn hauling it. Sounds like family nearby has plenty of running water.
So the family has to use water for the livestock, because there's no proper infrastructure for their survival. If it's that cold and no electricity or heat for the humans, the stock probably isn't being cared for properly either.
This is child abuse. The only reason these parents aren't in jail is that they're "Christian" and they get a pass.
- What R2 said.
- "I read yesterday that guy that is the head of the religion tells them they have to be self employed. Men aren't allowed to work for other men. "
But Jim Bob Duggar works for TLC, a TV netork!
And so do his wife and numerous kiddies, you'd think that'd get him thrown out of Quiverfull, if they aren't total hypocrites (ya think?). And I don't think it's legal to put the kids on TV and not give them seperate paychecks.
- My guess is Quiverfull is giving them a pass because the show is one big whitewashed Quiverfull advertisement. Real Quiverfull people don't live in that type of luxury. They are recruiting.
And you're right, they are breaking a lot of rules and living a very lax lifestyle by Quiverfull standards. My guess is the leaders love them for the airtime, the rank and file talk behind their backs about how "loose" they are.
- I forgot to mention, the pictures of "stock tanks" I saw showed horses with their nose in the water tank, drinking. The children are drinking from the same open container the animals drink out of.
- Well, R185, maybe natural selection will run its course.
- Love the clown car gags.....It's a vagina not a clown car, makes me laugh everytime. It's the visual.
- They need to name this one "Counting".
- Update. She miscarried. Sorry for her, but please. Time to take care of the kids she already has. The husband of hers needs to keep it in his pants!
- I echo your statements r189. It's tragic when any parent loses a child, no matter how young (my sister suffered two ectopic pregnancies before she and my brother-in-law had my nephew) but perhaps they will use this tragedy to wake up and watch after the children they already have. (Somehow I doubt it though.)
- I do not wish Michelle (Quiverfull) Duggar any ill will, but her having a miscarriage is a blessing in disguise.
She almost had a stroke while carrying her youngest child. And, that child was born very prematurely and (obviously, not yet confirmed) has some developmental delays as well as (spoken about on the show) severe intestinal and respiratory issues.
This ^ is why I think Michelle Duggar having had a miscarriage is a blessing in disguise.
- Well, if you follow their logic, this is God's way of saying "Woman, STOP!"
- I'll pray for her.
- what haters you are... do the duggars live on public money? they support and take care of their own children. what has happened to this society that we would say the things that have been said in these blogs. by the way, im not a christian nor a religious finatic, but just a decent person who just happens to be agnostic.
- [quote]what haters you are... do the duggars live on public money? they support and take care of their own children.
They also claim themselves a Church so they don't pay taxes, so shaddup.
- Her vagina hole must be very wide.
- With all those kids, a few of them are bound to be gay.
- I don't agree with it but I would much rather people who proactively care for their kids be in the news than many others. Hell why is Maury's I got 4 kids and 8 daddies OK but this is criminal?
- You're an idiot, r194/r198.
- Her bladder is gonna cause her major issues when she goes through menopause
- This couple needs to be put down and the already existing kids farmed out to decent homes.
- [quote]do the duggars live on public money?
- [quote] Her vagina hole must be very wide.
It has now officially been designated FEMA housing.
- If they have a pretty one they don't want, I'll take her in and give her a good home.
- What kind of public assistance do they take? I thought they were the one idiotic over-breeding family who supported themselves.
- [quote] What kind of public assistance do they take? I thought they were the one idiotic over-breeding family who supported themselves.
They declared their house a "home church" so they pay no taxes.
- Josh Duggar, the oldest of the Duggar children from TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting, has accepted a job as Executive Director at the FRC Action group of Family Research Council, the SPLC-designated hate group run by Tony Perkins
[italic]According to GLAAD:[/italic] Duggar has said in the past that he "will be working with a Christian organization to help promote 'family values and right to life.” But FRC has spent decades attacking same-sex couples and their families, as well as the families of LGBT young people. Duggar said that he will be working on the 501c4 side of the organization, which is more politically driven. He can't even claim he's just going to shape the culture.
Now that Josh Duggar has accepted a position at such an anti-gay organization, he has become a full-fledged anti-gay activist. What does this mean for TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting? Will TLC allow it to become a mainstream outlet for FRC’s dangerous message? What about the Duggar family's appearances in other media? Will his work with one of the most vile anti-gay organizations in America be legitimized there?
"If Josh Duggar wants to make a living dehumanizing and denigrating LGBT people and their families, that's his business, but FRC's lies and stereotypes need to be treated as such," said GLAAD Spokesperson Wilson Cruz. "Josh's new boss Tony Perkins has actually accused LGBT equality advocates of being pawns of the devil. Fans of his family's reality show ought to know that."
- Josh Dugger is going to head up the hate group's Political Action Committee. He will be leading the wing of the FRC that goes against gay rights on Capitol Hill, in state legislatures, and at the ballot box.
Hatemonger Josh has taken on a job that directly seeks to stop/rollback our rights and protections.
- [quote]The Daily Show Hilariously Skewers Christians Calling Gay People Intolerant by Josh Feldman | 11:38 pm, June 17th, 2013
- What background does Josh have that qualifies him to be the executive director of anything?
- He's white and Christian, R210. Nothing more is needed by FRC (and some of our more pathetic DLers).
- Disgusting. Outrageous. Pathetic.
The dad needs to be neutered.
- [quote]The dad needs to be neutered.
That thought is about 20 years late.
- I thought NBC and The Today Show are gay friendly. If so, what are they doing sucking up to that phofic family?
- Didn't they put another phobic many kid family on as well? The one where the mother is taking hormones so she can continue to breed?
- I know it's been said a million times, but it bears repeating:Wwith that many kids, I can't imagine the hell of being the gay one (or two).
- I see that our own Mrs. Patsy Ramsey posted on the People comments page.
- This family needs to be STOPPED. 20x20 = 400 more babies.
- You forgot Male R211. A white christian female would be equally qualified, but on fairly continuous maternity leave.
- For a moment I thought the headline was current. I shudder to think...
- So does this mean they're full blown sex addicts, or does it mean they've only had sex for the twentieth time?
- Everytime they're featured on the Today show, I send in a complaint just to let them know that not all America thinks these Fundies are fun.
- The parents both need to be sterilized.
- I feel so sorry for the inevitably gay child(ren).
- TLC should have the leader of the anti-quiverfull movement on a program, discussing the rampant physical, emotional and sexual abuse prevalent in the movement. Dire poverty of most followers also leads to extreme psychological problems.
Did you know that the Duggar's practice "blanket training" with their infants? That means that a baby is placed on a blanket, and is beaten if he/she moves. That's how they instill total submission of the will. Children aren't allowed to be naturally curious about anything. Duggars' online have been accused of creating their own personal cult of super-obedient, mindless followers.
- I cant be certain, but I think this is an actual picture of her vagina.
- the duggars make me sick
and yet they keep on having more slow kids
they will soon have an island called duggarville
- R54, "The Quiverfull do not believe in adoption because they are taught that the sins of the parents who placed the child for adoption live within the child."
Are you serious? Then the Quiverfull are just as bad as "godless" China, that they always condemn. If a Chinese couple loses their one child, due to illness or death, then they would rather grieve for the rest of their lives than adopt a stranger's abandoned baby. That's because they don't really know where the baby came from; like it might be carrying "bad" genes" that couldn't be overcome through proper care.
- How sad in America that many kids, in the name of religious freedom, are completely denied an opportunity for even a basic education. Whether it's a cult called Quiverfull, Scientology, or FLDS, it should be illegal, and anyone allowing it in jail.
Worse is the extreme control and authoritarianism of the adults in these cults. All children, despite their phony smiles (see Moonies,) grow up fearful and with severe psychological issues. Physical and sexual abuse is also rampant. Kids beaten into submission don't complain.
- Someone strangle the bitch, PLEASE!!
- The best outcome would be for her to die in child birth. It would put a stop to this madness.