- I have modified tonight's dance to be called the Mombo and my accidental exposed nipple will hopefully be a beacon home for Baby Lisa.
- Fat white mom kills again.
- What did those sick fuck parents do to that baby!!!
- Dad was awfully calm, stoic and creepy at the first press conference. I think he did it and she's helping to cover it up.
- A link would be nice.
- The case of missing 10-month-old Baby Lisa has baffled Kansas City, Mo., law enforcement.
The baby's mother said she put the infant to sleep in her crib on the evening of Oct. 3 and then retreated to her own bedroom and fell asleep. When her husband returned home about 3:30 a.m. Tuesday after his evening shift, the electrician said he found the front door wide open, the lights on -- and an empty crib.
The parents began frantically searching the house and shouting at each other to call 911. It was then that they discovered that their three cellphones, which were lined up on the counter for charging and reprogramming of phone numbers, were also missing.
Now, a week has gone by with no sign of Baby Lisa.
"Right now, we truly have no suspects," Capt. Steve Young, spokesman for the Kansas City, Mo., police department, told The Times.
Law enforcement officers have been working around the clock combing the area for clues, including searching an area landfill. Over the weekend, they re-created one possible scenario -- an intruder crawling in through the bedroom window -- as part of their investigation. The FBI has joined the search, and other local law enforcement agencies are loaning out their own lawmen to help in any way they can, Young said.
The parents, meanwhile, have issued plea after plea to whomever has their daughter: Please return her to safety.
At one point last week, the baby's parents, Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, appeared to be embroiled in a dispute with the police. There were media reports that they were no longer cooperating with law enforcement. That's not true, the parents said, and insisted that they were doing everything asked of them.
Moreover, Deborah Bradley told the Associated Press that officials told her she had failed a lie detector test. She says she believes it was a ploy, and that she has told law enforcement everything she knows.
On Monday, Young said he would not comment on that wrinkle in the case other than to say that "Everybody is back talking again and we're very happy with that."
Friends and relatives are also pitching in to find the little girl. The baby's aunt handed out thousands of fliers to NASCAR fans attending the Kansas Speedway's Sprint Cup race over the weekend, and a Help Find Lisa Irwin page has been set up on Facebook.
- They ate it.
- Maybe a dingo ate their baby. It could happen.
- Debi, hon? Call me.
- Hadn't heard about this, but two things seem really odd.
1. What criminal, evan a dumb one, turns on all the lights in the house? There are a lot of people who wake up at the smallest change in their home, and a mother of a baby would most likely be one them.
2 Not many people leave their phones at home with out going back for them, and I would think the father with a baby at home would especialy want to have his phone with him.
- So when did they call 911? Did they run to a neighbors house immediately?
- After they got their stories straight, R12.
- [quote] their three cellphones, which were lined up on the counter for charging and reprogramming of phone numbers, were also missing.
Reprogramming of phone numbers?? What does that mean??
- Has the mother mentioned seeing a suspicious black man roaming the neighborhood? That's all this story is missing so far.
- They should put the parents in a police car and force them to listen to Rush Limbaugh. They'd get a confession within an hour.
- Is there one case where gay parents did this to their child??
- I heard a report on the news this morning that Lisa's mother is still married to another man and that they have not divorced. She's been living with this guy (don't know how long) and she had his baby!
Also heard that the police are looking for a handyman who, conveniently enough, has not been seen or heard from since Lisa disappeared. The newsanchor mentioned that the handyman angle (my words, not theirs) are similar to that of Elizabeth Smart, I believe.
Nobody in the Know
- Last week the police searched a landfill in Shawnee, KS twice in this case. The reason they did it was because there was a report of a dumpster fire at an apartment complex near the home of Lisa's parents. The fire was reported at approximately 2:30am the same early morning as Lisa's disappearance.
I think the mother had something to do with it. Her tears in interviews are very forced.
My sister says the same thing and people at her work think the mother sold the baby to pay off a drug debt.
On Friday the mother's sister was spotted in the Power and Light District (entertainment area in downtown KC) passing out fliers and was accompanied by a film crew...and it wasn't the local news. I don't know what that's all about but it seems weird to me.
- R18, what does being still married to another man have to do with anything?
- Probably the parents but it's possible that one of those crazy childless women stalked them and snatched it. She's a little too young to appeal to most pedophiles. Adorable baby.
- [quote]it's possible that one of those crazy childless women stalked them and snatched it.
I hope that's true because at least you know the person is probably taking good care of her. Pretty bold to just go into someone's home and take a baby though. The chances of being confronted are very high. Someone upthread mentioned that mothers have super sonic ears for their infants. That is so true. You hear every burp and fart the baby makes and you sleep very lightly. I can't believe the mom didn't hear something---even a floor board creaking would be enough to get her up and into that baby's room in 10 seconds.
- "Three Phones and a Baby."
- True R22. Once you become a parent you develop excellent hearing and most people have the baby monitors anyway.
- [quote]a mother of a baby
What are the other options? Mother of a cell phone?
- R25, Maybe she would have been a better parent to a cell phone, tho she did seem to loose that too
- Mother of a teenager, R25 - they learn to block out noise.
- Have her parents checked the golf course or local night clubs yet?
- Three Phones One Corpse
- Baby Lisa called Maddie just to say "your parents are fucking amateurs.
- How old are the brothers? Maybe it's another Jean Benet?
- [quote]How old are the brothers? Maybe it's another Jean Benet?
- I'm thinking they either killed the kid by accident, or sold her!
- It could have been an hispanic man or maybe even an Arab!!
Terrorist are taking our babies!
- Look at them. They ate her.
- Mom's fake crying at the first press conference was so reminiscent of Susan Smith's I knew instantly she did it.
- I think the Mom is having an affair and dad wanted to teach her a lesson, sold the beautiful baby girl. Mom has to keep quite, Dad supports the family.
- I thought it was cool she chose the name Lisa. Hadn't had anyone name their child that in 30 years.
[quote]The parents began frantically searching the house and shouting at each other to call 911. It was then that they discovered that their three cellphones, which were lined up on the counter for charging and reprogramming of phone numbers, were also missing.
Most men with newborn/young kids keep the phone with them always. hhmmm. Something smells funny.
- It's Joan Beignet R32. Get it right.
- No, it's Joan Bennett!
- Who the fuck names a baby "Lisa" in 2011??
- R11 made the best point - who the hell goes in to steal a baby and turns all the lights on? That makes zero sense.
Also, all the cell phones conveniently lined up on the counter? They just all happened to need to be recharged at the same time? Yeah, I believe that.
- Typical fat Army wife.
NO fucking way would the hubby leave without his phone, seeing that he had NEVER worked overnight before, and would want to check in on his wife and baby.
I'm wondering if whatever happened, went down before he left.
If the body is out rotting somewhere, maybe the family can pull a Casey Anthony and walk.
- "Who the fuck names a baby 'Lisa' in 2011??"
So you prefer all the Jadens and Kaydens and Braydens, r41? At least they gave the kid a real name.
- [quote]Who the fuck names a baby "Lisa" in 2011??
She's not Lisa. Her name is Julie. Lisa left them long ago.
- They won't get away with it.
- I think one of those Hollywood witches had something to do with this.
- R48, is that term a euphemism?
- Could be one of her older brothers killed her, on purpose or by accident and the parents are covering up for them.
- R15, then everyone would've know they were guilty.
- Are we sure a koala wasn't involved. Vicious motherfuckers.
- Exactly, R41.
- Well, IN THIS ECONOMY, one does what one has to do.
- it's Jon Bennet
- What's on her i-Pod?
- the local news is all over this. TV news interuptions with the latest 'no news' every half hour. I believe the answer to the mystery is with the parents or a relative.
It's like a low income family JonBenet redo.
- Maybe she sold the baby to a gay couple so she could take her other kids to Disney World.
- Apparently the baby's mother was seen shopping at a grocery store with an unknown man about 5 hours before she put the baby to bed.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-review-grocery-surveillance-deborah-bradley-20111010,0,3702048.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: wdaf-news (FOX4KC Local News)
- Breaking News from Kansas City Star:
"Kansas City Fire Department hazardous materials crews have responded to a Northland address to aid police in the search of a well for a missing child. Fire officials would not say whether the search involved missing baby Lisa Irwin and referred questions to police."
There is no bogus kidnapper Bruno Hauptmann, just as there was none then.
- The black man did it!
- Just what the world needs, another high drama distraction from the real shit we need to focus on.
- More importantly, who names a baby Lisa in 2011?
- What I learned from this thread:
*Mothers of babies have super keen labrador-dog hearing.
*Mothers of teenagers block out noise.
May I add that the keen-hearing mommies of infants become deaf and able to be oblivious to any sound immediately around the time the spawn begins making loud screeching, crying and whining and shouting noises in nice restaurants, stores, movie theatres and other public places.
- Looks like baby Lisa's mom is a fucking slut!
- Remember the Eisenberg baby was apparently stilen from their home like 13 years ago. No one ever found it and parents were never charged.
- I watched a few minuts of JVM when the discussion of Lisa's mom shopping with a strange man ~and~ she bought a box of wine. You could have heard the collective breath of the fraus everywhere who have now labeled the mother a total monster. This country is so puritanical and pathetic I wonder how we cope. Oh that's right we don't. Never mind.
- "More importantly, who names a baby Lisa in 2011?"
- The wine doesn't bother me. She also bought things for the baby. Was she really shopping with a stranger or did a man stop her and ask her a question?
Some women are watched or even befriended by men who want to hurt or steal their children. Fat women are easy targets. A man insinuates himself into the home, just for the child. A pretty little baby girl could be sold. There are many couples who want babies and it could be cheaper and easier than getting one from China. Why did these people feel the need to have so many young children? How do they afford them?
- The police claim the store tape is another dead end.
The baby's family has brought in a Private Dick, but the guy isn't licensed to practice in the state.
- I still want to know what happened to Kyron Horman.
- Or what about Haighly Cummings?
- Well she should just keep quiet. Casey told lie after lie and was still set free. Even though this is a fat woman, she might get off.
- Get a life of your own, OP.
- [quote]their three cellphones, which were lined up on the counter for charging and reprogramming of phone numbers, were also missing.
I find that strange. All charging at the same time all line up? Never happens in my house and I've lived with multiple family members stay here before.
- Casey Anthony and Kyron Hormon's stepmom. Both women got away with murder by keeping their mouths shut and not admitting to anything. This could encourage others.
- [quote]she bought a box of wine. You could have heard the collective breath of the fraus everywhere who have now labeled the mother a total monster.
Hypocritical cunts. My son is grown now but I can tell you that after putting him to bed, I indulged myself in a few glasses of wine to relax, I was a single mom. I guarantee that most middle class soccer moms are abusing alcohol and prescription pills and far worst than just a glasses of wine.
- If you are going to kill your child, best to do it while they are very young and still have their baby fat.
Fat decomposes quickly; there will be less forensic evidence left by the time Baby X is found.
- What I find odd is the incessant media beat that she was unlikely to have been stolen by a stranger. I think that's a huge lie.
It's also amazing to me that these police dopes are still focusing the investigation in the Irwin's neighborhood. There is no way that the baby is still in that neighborhood.
- R64, Amanda Knox was certainly right about that.
PS: get a new line, tard. That one isn't working on us.
- I agree R82. Lots of people are desperate for a baby--heck who would ever believe some lunatic would plot to cut one right out of it's mother's stomach? And yet that has happened a few times. A cute Gerber baby like little Lisa could have been stalked for months. She could have caught the attention of some psycho while out and about with her family and then was followed home.
- What is this crap?
- Agreed, R84. I think this particular baby was targeted. I must say that I find stories like this to be heart wrenching, and not much gets to me. I also think the parents are innocent.
- Perhaps there was something about the family that made the abductor(s) think it would be easier to get away with if they targeted them.
- There may be some clues about this case in this thread:
- R64, it must be killing you that no one is actually blaming a black man in this case.
The sad truth is that white criminals sometimes blame fictional black suspects because there are so many real black criminals that saying "a black man did it!" gives a lie an air of authenticity.
- No it doesn't R89. Just the opposite. That accusation has become such a cliche bell ringer. Ding, ding, ding....we have a suspect and it's mom afterall. Detectives are all too aware that blaming a random black man is what every stupid white woman does in a desperate attempt to take the heat off herself. Get a clue and try to grasp the irony in R64's post.
- Can we get back on topic, please?
- Cut out of mothers uterus. It happens more than you think.
- They should have checked to see if the mother was drugged.
- Mommy bought a box of wine. Wonder if she was so fucking drunk that she NEVER heard someone enter the house.
The really strange thing is about all three cell phones being taken.
- [quote]The really strange thing is about all three cell phones being taken.
Yes, it's very strange. I mean, how long is it really going to slow them down when all they have to do is pound on the neighbor's door to use their phone? If the parents are guilty of something I don't think they'd make such an odd claim. I think this really happened to them.
- "Mommy bought a box of wine. Wonder if she was so fucking drunk that she NEVER heard someone enter the house."
Video shows Mom was shopping with a teenager, or a youngish guy, one who was in the press conference with Bill Stanton.
I'm bettin' she was banging him, left the baby alone, and somehow the baby died while they were gone. In a panic, she had the young guy help her dispose of the body.
- Do they have cats? Because cats will suck a baby's breath and then drag it away and bury it.
- Well, it's obvious to me that this is Beyonce's doing. She needs a real baby to put in the bump.
- why didn't the father take the cell phone and the charger to work with him? then simply plug it in?..it's strange. Someone suggested before that a mom has 'mom ear's' and a father would always have his cell with him. When I have to go somewhere and my cell is low I take my charger and plug it in
- The dad also had a work cell phone. That's suppose to be why his was at home. The third phone was because one was not working and they were loading the contacts onto one a neighbor had given them. At leaset that's what I read.
- can't cell phones be located within a certain radius?
- Nancy, if I heard correctly, the Mother was asked what she last saw baby lisa wearing? The Mother's answer was a pair of shorts and a top? Who puts their baby to bed at 10:30 at night in their play clothes and why?
- [quote]Who puts their baby to bed at 10:30 at night in their play clothes and why?
White trash and because they're lazy, shiftless creatures.
- I think one or both of the parents were involved. Or a close relative.
- The guy is the video is her brother.
- estrogen kills (again)... but we know that
- [quote][R18], what does being still married to another man have to do with anything?
R20, she allegedly failed the polygraph test. Her behavior with this man, to whom she's not married, her husband, and now the baby missing? Not sure I believe her that she had nothing to do with Lisa's disappearance.
Nobody in the Know/R18
- susan smith, patsy ramsey, betty broderick... all murderers
- polygraph tests are nonsense and not allowed in most courts in the world for a reason.
- who the fuck ar eyou 109, nancy grace? you dont have a law degree, you are just parroting some bullshit you heard someone else say one time when you dont know shit about investigations. investigations are about ruling suspects out, and lie detector tests certainly DO help with that. The case is something else entirely, so until you understand how police do their jobs, stfu
- The family has moved out of the house.
Maybe for good!
- I think Casey Anthony is traveling around the country assisting young mothers as the Dr. Kevorkian of brat removal. Notice this didn't happen until she was released. An OBVIOUS connection.
- Can we get serious here? Also, who cares about Nancy Grace, she's a joke. I never watch the emotionally manipulative TV coverage.
It's not unusual for people to forget to bring their cellphone to work every once in a while.
What I'm wondering about is the guy who fathered her two other children(if he fathered both of them). My impression of the baby's father at the press conferences is that he is very submissive.
- Casey saw what was needed and turned that need into cash! Good for her! It's the American way.
- In my opinion, a bad Mom puts her baby to bed at 10:30. But it doesn't mean she killed the kid. Honestly, why would anyone steal the phones? They need to figure that out first.
- Casey Anthony got away with murder. This poor woman will probably be convicted because she, nor her boyfriend are very bright. The baby is probably now living with some couple in NY, adjusting to life in the big city.
- R116, if that were true someone would see the baby and report it. Her picture is all over the news, so if a childless couple suddenly shows up at the neighborhood bbq with a new baby they've adopted, and she looks exactly like Lisa, someone will eventually turn them in.
- I think someone stole the baby, and I fear the baby has been murdered. I don't think anyone stealing a baby wants to provide for it or give it to a loving home. They're monsters.
- R118, do you know who is a monster? You are. Mixing singular and plural pronouns with such ignorance! You are fucking the baby of the English language in the Gerber ass of its innocence.
- >>>Apparently the baby's mother was seen shopping at a grocery store with an unknown man about 5 hours before she put the baby to bed.
The guy was her brother. The cops are a bunch of assholes. They distributed the picture to the press thinking the mother had a boyfriend. She was also buying baby wipes when she bought the wine. That gives me the idea that her baby was still alive and she isn't involved. The cops are clueless and have fucked up. They bullied the mother and lied to her by saying she failed the polygraph test when she didn't fail it.
- Thanks for the info, R120. I read about this case online and watched videos of the parents online, which is perhaps why I wasn't swayed into believing the parents did it or know something.
I think they're believable and I never detected anything fishy about them. It is awful to think of the fate of Lisa.
So you've got the stupid cops still searching their neighborhood and blaming the parents. And then you've got the media insisting that a stranger wouldn't take the baby. Sorry, but all of that stinks more than the parents.
- [quote]someone would see the baby and report it.
They could put the baby in front of me and I'd never make the connection. All babies look alike.
- That is mostly true, R122. If she was seen in public, nobody would notice it was her even if they've seen her pictures in news reports.
- Strangers wouldn't R123, but someone who knows the adoptive couple would look closer. Especially, if the 'adoption' happened suddenly. White babies take years to acquire if you do it legally.
- I haven't really been following this case and know that, statistically, when something happens to a child, it's usually the parents or a close family member that is responsible. Yet, strange things do happen and it's possible for someone to kidnap a baby and pass it off as her own without raising the suspicions of others. A similar thing happened in Philadelphia a few years ago.
The mother had put her infant daughter and two older children to bed and then went to bed herself. During the night she smelled smoke and woke to find that her house was on fire. She ran to the baby's room, but her daughter was missing. She tried searching throughout the house, but the fire was spreading rapidly and she had to get her older children out.
The investigators never found the baby's remains and assumed that her body had been incinerated. The fire itself was ruled to be caused by faulty wiring. The baby's mother never believed that her daughter had died in the fire, but the officials considered the case closed.
As it turns out, she was right. The baby was kidnapped by a woman who was the friend of a family member. She set the fire to cover the kidnapping and possibly kill the mother and her older children in the process.
Six years later, the whole thing came to light when the mother took her children to a family member's birthday party. There she saw a little girl who had an uncanny resemblance to herself and her other children. She told the child that she had bubblegum in her hair and that she would help her get it out. She pulled several strands of hair with the hope that she would be able to use them for a DNA test. A local politician intervened and got the police to test the sample. Sure enough, it was her daughter.
The police were able to recover the child, the kidnapper went to jail and the story had a happy ending. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the child was kidnapped.
- I remember that case, R125. I think it was the woman's cousin who took the baby.
- R109 is more or else correct. R110. The results of a poygrapb can hove a vague idea, but its not concrete and its not allowed as evidence. And before you ask this is from someone who has a degree in forensic psychology.
- I meant the results of a polygraph can give a vague idea. Does this mean I need to "Oh, dear" myself?
- The whole "Baby [Name]" construction sounds so weird.
Like that's her title, or her profession: "Baby Lisa."
- Remember - Babies don't cost money, they make money.
- This is why people should NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer. NO MATTER WHAT. You never cave in to their "what have you got to hide" routine because this is what they pull.
Everyone trashed the Ramseys but Patsy Ramsey would have died in prison, and the poor woman was cleared posthumously of JonBenet's death.
They aren't interested in justice, they only want the "collar". Remember that if you ever get into trouble.
NEVER plead guilty. NEVER talk to the cops without a lawyer. EVER.
- Yep, R131. We had a thread all about this last week.
- Ah. Missed that one R132.
I gotta work some of the time, hon. Can't catch 'em all.
- Thanks, R132. I think I'm going to keep that one bumped.
I believe the parents in this case.
- where are all the DL psychics to help solve this?
- They just have to pretend they are the Ramseys and they will be fine. If no one talks, no case, even if a body is found.
- If you are talking to a cop, you are talking to an asshole, so always keep that in mind.
- Exactly, do not talk unless there is a lawyer present. Incompetent cops are the norm, not the exception. I would not want my life in their hands.
Where people get in trouble is not when there is a murder and you have a body, but in abduction cases because you don't know if the victim is still alive or not. The cops tell you that if you don't talk to them asap you are hindering the investigation because any little detail you provide could help and every minute counts, so not cooperating could cost your loved one their life. Any parent would be inclined to do or say anything if they think it will help find their child. Unfortunately, everything they say and do is then twisted and contorted until they become a suspect.
I think the best thing for a family to do immediately is get a lawyer and let the local yokel cops know they will cooperate fully but will only talk to a trained FBI child abduction specialist.
- It's a Saturday and Nancy won't be on until at least Wednesday. I don't know how I will cope not knowing every breath about this case. Nancy always tells me what to think about this things.
- This is interesting. It may or may not be a development. Used diapers and baby wipes were found in an abandoned home. They'll have to do some DNA testing before any conclusion can be reached.
- I just heard on the radio that the diapers were have said to have been there much longer than 2 weeks, so it's probably nothing.
- Let's say the parents story is true - the baby must have been abducted by someone who knew the family enough to know their schedule. But that could include anyone in the neighborhood in close proximity. The person knows the mom likes to drink after she puts the baby to bed, and knows the dad is working that night. They break into the house, turn on the lights because they're not familiar enough with the house to find the baby's room in the dark. They snatch the baby and run out the front door in a hurry and see the cell phones lined up on the counter and snatch them as an afterthought. Dad comes home and finds the lights on and the door open and the baby gone. And wakes his drunk wife. Some of the weirdness the mother is displaying may be her trying to cover up the fake that she was blind drunk when this happened, and if, in fact, the baby was snatched by someone who is familiar with the family her being a drinker is the reason the family was targeted.
- How do you just assume she was drunk...did she drink the whole box? Where is the proof?
- A mystery donor is offering a 100 grand reward for Baby Lisa.
- The baby's abducted the very first night the hubby works the late PM shift !?
Inside job by someone who knew family.
- I have to agree...someone took that baby...hopefully to sell to people who just wanted to be parents. Maybe a relative thought they were bad parents?
- I've just spent the last two hours watching the parents being interviewed by Megyn Kelly from Fox News.
The parents are changing their story.
Mother says she was drunk, and that she last saw the baby sometime in the 6pm hour.
At first they said that they didn't believe someone broke into the house and took the kid, and now think she was kidnapped.
- Maybe the mother misplaced her during an alcoholic blackout.
- It appears that 5 liter box of wine that Deborah Bradley bought the night of her daughter's disappearance was put to very good use. At 6:40pm that night, Deborah Bradley put her daughter down to bed. She remembers checking on her a short time later and that is the last time she remembers checking on Lisa. The rest of the night, Deborah sat outside on her porch and got drunk. She told Kneepads Magazine that she had more than five glasses of wine and may have blacked out at some point. Her friend left around 1030pm, and saw the lights go out in the house but Deborah does not remember if she did the turning out or if it could have been someone else. See, this is where the story falls apart for me. During the evening, two kids who were not her own were watching a movie inside the house. Deborah and a friend were out on the porch. When did the two kids watching a movie go home? All of these people were in there and outside, yet someone was still able to go inside and take the baby?
- Not good for this baby to missing this long... the chances she's alive are slim.. sad.
- estrogen kills
- Mom now expects to be arrested..did I hear that correctly on CNN??
- R152, she's been saying that for over a week!
- Kneepads Magazine? WTF is that?
- Kneepads Magazine is apparently the nickname for People Magazine.
- I really haven't heard anything to make me think she did it. I haven't heard much about the case.
- Patsy Ramsey was cleared after her death? Do tell!
- Here is the Faux News interview with the parents:
- So what? So she drank some wine after putting her kids to bed. Happens in just about every household, everyday. Doesn't make her a murderer.
R150 I don't agree in the case of a baby. Young child or teen, yes, but not a 10 month old. Pedo killers don't usually go for kids that young. If this was a kidnapping, the baby is likely with someone who desperately wanted a baby and is loving her like their own. At least I hope that's the situation.
- I kind of don't think the mother had anything to do with it, outside of negligence from the drinking. My relatives drank to excess all the time though, and we never went missing. What about this friend? Need more information on the drinking buddy.
- Here you go r157
" DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
TWENTIETH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
MARY I KEENAN. DISTRICT ATTORNEY
April 7, 2003
I have carefully reviewed the Order of United States District Court Judge Julie Carnes in the civil case of Wolf v. John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey. I agree with the Court's conclusion that "the weight of the evidence is more consistent with a theory that an intruder murdered JonBenet than it is with a theory that Mrs. Ramsey did so."
Although issued in the context of a civil case, the Court's ruling is a thoughtful and well reasoned decision based on the evidence that was presented by the parties in that case. It should be read in its entirety.
John and Patricia Ramsey have been the focus of an exhaustive investigation with regard to the murder of their daughter, JonBenet, for more than six years. People charged with a crime are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in court. Since Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey have not even been charged, much less convicted, they must be presumed innocent and must be treated accordingly.
For several months, my office has been investigating new and other unpursued leads, most of which involve the possibility that an intruder committed this crime. We are proceeding with the full cooperation of the Ramseys, Detective Lou Smit, and the Boulder Police Department. We are all focused on the apprehension and successful prosecution of the killer of JonBenet.
- I know she did it.
Therefore, I want to stomp the shit out of her.
- It sounds like the parents did around 10 hours of interviews with the press on Sunday.
Their new attorney has told them NOT to talk to the media anymore after this.
- John and Patsy both knew who killed their kid. It was a fucked up investigation from the beginning. Cops afraid of rich people. It was as simple as that.
- Wow, that statement "clearing" the Ramseys is even more half-assed than I remembered. Basically, the city of Boulder royally fucked up the investigation so the Ramseys can never be charged; therefore, they should be considered innocent.
- [quote]So what? So she drank some wine after putting her kids to bed. Happens in just about every household, everyday. Doesn't make her a murderer.
I don't have kids, but really? It's the norm for parents to get blackout drunk while caring for young children? Maybe parenting is more fun than I thought.
- Hogs like this lie. But what gives her fat ass away is the fact that she will not shut up. Over dramatic acting shows she is hiding something. The father is just weird and scared of his over weight dominate wife.
She loves the attention. Ate her baby with barbecue sauce while the husband worked. drunk and killed her out of jealousy.
- "over weight dominate"
Did you take poetake license here?
- "poetake" ????
- The husband has always acted very strange.
I'm starting to think this will be another unsolved case.
- R125, that story is support for what you said in your first paragraph, that it's rare for a baby to be taken/killed by a stranger.
When there's a homicide, the police (whom I believe to be, at least in many cases, a lot smarter than some here do) look at the victim's life in concentric circles: closest to the victim, then out from there in terms of exposure. Naturally, a baby or very young kid has fewer circles than an adult (an exception being Jon Benet, who had broader exposure to strangers and in particular pedophiles because of her stripper costumes during beauty contests).
Nobody rules out a stranger completely, but you start at the inner circle, with the parents and anyone else who saw the baby on a regular basis. If you run into lies or fabrication or weird stories (doesn't make sense sometimes equals untrue) at the parent level, you stay there and try to make sense of them until the parents can be definitively cleared, because the statistics show that a child is most often killed by a family member.
What the media do is just bullshit. I don't even consider broadcasters to be journalists anymore.
- i don't keep uo with stuff like this but the hubby looks like a kook!
- R169 = humorless
- I just heard that two women were spotted with a baby matching Lisa and when they started attracting looks and attention they left in a hurry. Strange.
- R174, where at? And where there any descriptions of the women? Where did you hear this?
- where = were
- Just caught a snippet on Jane Velez. I only heard it in the background so didn't catch it all. They took off in a dark 4 door car.
- MANHATTAN, Kan. - Police are investigating a possible sighting of missing Lisa Irwin at a deli in Manhattan, Kan.
According to police in Riley County, a customer at McAlister’s Deli reported seeing two women and a baby resembling Lisa inside the restaurant.
The women became aware of people looking at them and left the restaurant without eating the food they ordered, according to Topeka NBC affiliate KSNT.
The women then reportedly drove away in a small black car with Missouri plates.
McAllister's did not have surveillance footage.
- Thanks, R177 and R178. I hope she's alive and unharmed.
- She drank 5 to 10 glasses of wine.
That was her estimation.....and she's on Effexor.
- I think she killed the baby in some drunken blackout.
- Maybe she dragged the baby in bed with her and then rolled onto her in a drunken stupor. A full BOX of wine! I still need to know about this person she got shitfaced with.
- R182 is correct.
The "mystery" neighbor, has not come forward.
The mother said she hasn't talked to her other kids about what happened that night, and what they saw.
- Did she say in one interview that the night the baby went missing, she had her boys sleep in the bed with her? Also, are the boys adopted?
- That's weird R183. That would be the first thing I'd do. Something is fishy and now the parents have lawyered up and shut up and refused to speak.
- I channel surf and saw Megan Kelly interviewing a doctor about alcohol and Effexor, and he said Effexor was not a level 1 anti-depressant.
Said it was much more powerful than Paxil and the like.
- I'd be depressed too if I had those other kids, R186.
- The FBI searched the family home for almost 17 hours, last night.
Why in God's name didn't they do this a week ago?!
- And why was Mom on Effexor?
- Believe what R181 said is true. The local news is all over this--
- They just did a RIPPED from the headlines story loosely based on Baby Lisa last night on Law & Order SVU.
That was Fast!
- Any updates R190?
- The local news interviews people all the time who are no relation and have no personal relationship with this child. They all say how "connected" they feel to this baby. Vigils are held, that neighborhood has become a tourist attraction and I'm shocked that someone isn't selling t-shirts on the sidewalk.
The area where the baby disappeared from is surrounded by heavily wooded and undeveloped areas. I have a number of friends who live in close proximity to this family's home.
Nothing new as of now. Earlier today the KCMO Police Department denied (via Twitter) that rumors that the body of the baby had been found are false.
I have a feeling that in a few days we'll hear "BREAKING NEWS: BABY LISA FOUND." and it won't be good news.
There are several links to articles, etc. on this blog. You just have to look around. Apologies to fellow Kansas City Dataloungers who hate this blog, but I do find it informative.
- Oh, and that blog often has photos of women with big boobs in bikinis for some unknown reason, so use discretion if you are at work. Or go to the Pitch's blog.
- Three kids in the house, it's enough to depress anyone.
- Um, ok. Most likely scenario - mom accidently kills baby in an Effexor/alcohol blackout. Rolled over on her as R182 said, or let any number of bizarre accidents happen. One did, kid dies.
What do the parents do with the body? Forget whatever reasons they have (fear, obviously) for calling the cops and admitting the truth - but what is the timeline here? Did they have time to travel outside what might be a normal search area to bury her?
Where would they have put the body?
- Baby Lisa's mom told People magazine the cops think that an accident happened when she was drunk, she freaked, and covered it up.
This is what I think happened, too.
- On tv there is an "ominous" sign. A drainage ditch was found nearby with a pentagram graffiti thing and now they are bringing up satanism.
- R178, It's 2011 and no one managed to take a cell phone picture of the women, the baby or their car? This is starting to seem like the Madeline McCann case. People all over Europe and Africa claimed to have seen her, but not a single person got a picture and no surveillance camera's managed to capture pictures either
- R196 people don't black out from taking Effexor or drinking while on effexor.
I know people who were on effexor who drank alcohol and were fine on it, and I know people who took all sorts of illegal drugs while on it from MDMA (ecstasy), DXM, Ketamine, mushrooms, and smoking herb and they didn't black out or pass out while on the Effexor and combining it with other drugs.
- On the news now -
cadaver dog got a direct hit(scent) for a dead human right by the parent's bed.
- [quote]Can I Drink Alcohol on Effexor?
[quote]According to the manufacturer or Effexor® (venlafaxine hydrochloride), drinking alcohol while using the medication is not recommended. This is because drugs like Effexor and alcohol act upon similar chemicals in the brain. The concern is that Effexor will increase the effects of alcohol -- whether this is increasing depression symptoms or affecting motor skills.
- You know, cadaver dogs are bullshit. I really think the Mom is innocent and they should try and find the child with a neighbor or some person who knows their scheduel.
- [quote]Cadaver dogs are known as valuable forensic tools in crime scene investigations. Scientific research attempting to verify their value is largely lacking, specifically for scents associated with the early postmortem interval. The aim of our investigation was the comparative evaluation of the reliability, accuracy, and specificity of three cadaver dogs belonging to the Hamburg State Police in the detection of scents during the early postmortem interval.
[quote]Carpet squares were used as an odor transporting media after they had been contaminated with the scent of two recently deceased bodies (bodies are all less than 3 hours old). The contamination occurred for 2 min as well as 10 min without any direct contact between the carpet and the corpse. Comparative searches by the dogs were performed over a time period of 65 days (10 min contamination) and 35 days (2 min contamination).
[quote]The results of this study indicate that the well-trained cadaver dog is an outstanding tool for crime scene investigation displaying excellent sensitivity (75-100), specificity (91-100), and having a positive predictive value (90-100), negative predictive value (90-100) as well as accuracy (92-100).
- It wasn't me!
Casey Anthony, Florida Mom of the Year, 2011
- Have they checked the nearest swamp?
- Sorry but I don't think cadavar dogs are dependable...dogs are like three year old children, how often can you really depend on them?
- [quote]Cadaver dogs are known as valuable forensic tools in crime scene investigations
Do you even know the meaning of the word forensic?
- I think Roll Over Mom was so drunk she passed out on the bed, the infant was in the bed with her and mom rolled over her.
- Lisa's parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, restricted police access to the home.
"The only areas extensively processed for DNA and fingerprints during the consent were the baby's bedroom and possible points of entry," the document states.
The document also contained a puzzling comment by Lisa's mother. "Bradley made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she 'was afraid of what she might find,'" it said.
In addition, the police cited a "garden area with portions of dirt having an appearance of being recently disturbed or overturned."
- three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom.
1. Mike Thompson told ABC News that he was on his way home from work around 4 a.m. on Oct. 4 when he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three miles from the Irwin home. "[At] 4 a.m., 45 degrees, baby don't have a coat or nothing and this guy is walking down the street and I thought it was kind of weird," Thompson said.
He thought the sight was so unusual that he recalled considering offering the man and baby a ride home, but couldn't because he was on his motorcycle. He later reported what he saw to police and told ABC News he is convinced the baby was Lisa. Thompson described the man as around 5-feet-7, between 140 and 150 pounds and in his late 30s or early 40s.
2. A few hours earlier, a couple living three houses down from the Irwin family said they saw a similar sight. A woman and her husband said they saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby. They thought the situation was so unusual that they reported it to police on the morning of Oct. 4.
"It was shocking because I couldn't imagine anyone outside walking with their baby in the cold like that with no clothes on," the woman told ABC News.
Bradley has said that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her, but the neighboring couple said they baby they saw did not appear to be wearing any clothing.
"We seen the little arm, the leg, it didn't look like the baby had on any clothes, just a diaper," she said.
- Lisa's purple shorts and t-shirt, have been recovered inside the home.
That means that the baby may not have been wearing anything.
- Regarding the idiots who think that cadaver dogs aren't legit:
Do you have ANY fucking idea just how sensitive dogs' noses are? Seriously, go look it up. Then come back here and apologize for being an ignorant dumbass.
- The mom did it. Stop kidding yourselves. It's just a matter of finding the body.
- I think the parents(as bad of a parent the mother is) are innocent. I believe the sightings of the baby, she was definitely stolen. People need to intervene when they see something suspicious, or that makes them feel uneasy.
- People stll claim they see Elvis.
Any day now the mom's gonna crack and admit what she did with the body.
- R216, what a ridiculous thing to say. That's a far cry from an Elvis sighting. The people saw some guy walking around with a baby. The baby was stolen.
- The odds of a man stealing a baby that is not related to him are so small - it makes no sense.
- What was that misshelenbedd always says about ESTROGEN KIL......ssss
- The family's lawyer claims no carpet samples were taken from the house.
Also that the dogs finding something is a lie.
- Fatty and skinny laying in bed, fatty rolled over and skinny was dead.
- The only real question is whether the dad helped hide or bury the baby's body, or whether he's totally in the dark. I wouldn't rule out totally in the dark, because he seems like a clueless thing.
- If someone stole the baby, it was probably a woman or a man who thought he could sell it. What man wants to actually take care of a baby?
- She may have been drunk and dropped her baby but in all honesty, I don't think she killed her baby.
Used to be when a baby died, people called the police and the coroner would say it was sids. Life used to be so easy.
- And not a note. Not a phone call. Nothing. Baby Lisa is so inconsiderate!
- DROPPED IT??!?!?! She probably killed it because it took a sip of her box wine.
The shame of the frau fish is that they defend each other in situations like this because they are so insecure that they have nothing if not the matriarchal hegemonic bond of sisterhood - - and all the time a child dies.
SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.
- She probably killed it accedently when she was drunk and was too embarrassed to admit it, especially to her husband.
- didn't they interview her 2 kids about what they saw and heard?
- R218, good job at being a media parrot.
Several people independent of each other described seeing the same thing. The mom may be an irresponsible drunk idiot who covers for herself, and the dad may be a wimp, but the baby was abducted.
- Stupid American sheep need public distractions. I prefer the usual media frenzies over babies that fall into holes.
- The media people are told to attack the parents(using cherry picked known media stories in the past to create a generalized impression, which DLers seem to eat up with a spoon) in order to make it look like strangers don't regularly abduct children. It's a LIE that this almost never happens. Thousands upon thousands of kids go missing every single year in the USA alone.
The media doesn't want you to know about child abductions. The authorities aren't any better. WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF THESE KIDS?
- "Some guy walking around with a baby"
- [quote]WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF THESE KIDS?
Well R231, I'm glad you asked.
Some missing children are taken to training centers where they are educated and trained to become killing machines that work for our government.
Others learn to make tinfoil hats, like the one you are wearing.
- Pathetic, juvenile response, R233. The media hides the disappearances(abductions) but you can find the stats if you are willing to look past your haze of lemming approved sources.
- Porn, then killed.
- Damn, we now have a fervent "baby Lisa was stolen" troll.
- I had a very interesting conversation with my step-SIL this weekend at a family gathering. She is working with an organization that is helping sex slaves here in the states get away and out of the industry. There is a very active sex slave business here in the States. Many under-aged kids are brought over the border and kept in brothels and sold. Many are bought as babies and brought up and sold from one group to another as they get older and the clienteles tastes change. It's actually a better industry than drugs because drugs can only be sold once whereas a human being can be sold over and over again. A lot of the brothels are what you see in the movie Taken, just large trailers divided into tiny rooms and the girls are kept drugged. She's very involved with this group right now and she said the stuff goes way up into the government with INS officials and judges involved in payouts (and probably more) and some have been arrested but it's not "good" media and is never reported.
- R237's a rambling psychotic escapee. Let's get the net.
- R236, what troll are you? What makes someone a troll?
Surely your wide knowledge of situations like this comes from a select few media extravaganzas, right?
- The truth about these situations could've been seen on a thread that was deleted just a few days ago. It seemed to have been deemed by many posting on it as an especially incendiary thread, even by DL standards.
- Actually I was replying to R231's question of what happens to all these kids? Sex industry.
- as being an especially incendiary thread
- [quote] Several people independent of each other described seeing the same thing. The mom may be an irresponsible drunk idiot who covers for herself, and the dad may be a wimp, but the baby was abducted.
Does this Polly want a cracker too?
- R241, are you being serious?
- A director flaunting it:
- R243, there are certainly truths mixed in with any media angle. I think that's some of the truth that got through. It's up to everyone to use their own discernment.
- New video shows a mystery man in the area Baby Lisa disappeared.
- Nancy Grace, former lawyer, here. New revelations out of Baby Lisa's home indicate cadaver dogs have detected the smell of a dead human being in the parent's bedroom. From my experience, don't read too much into this, folks. These dogs often mistake dried up cum for a dead body. That's right, friends, year-old baby batter could set these dogs off. Baby Lisa's dad may have shot his load over the edge of the bed onto the floor one night in the heat of passion with that heifer he calls a wife. To these dogs dead sperm equals dead human. So, don't get your bone pointing to the moon just yet. Stay tuned.
- Thanks, R248. The parent's new attorney's claims about the police's investigation of the home are very interesting. I certainly wouldn't trust them.
- Two seperate reports of a man carrying a near naked baby, late that night. There is also some video but too far away to see anything for sure.
- R252, it is also noteworthy that it was cold.
- Just saw the parents' lawyer on GMA. Why is he in Rome? Was that ever explained? I had to leave before the segment ended.
- The brothers of the baby are being DNA tested today.
- Am I the only one who's getting kinda bored with this story?
If the mother did something to the baby, looks like she's gonna get away with it, anyway.
- I don't think she did anything to the baby. Two reports came out that someone saw a man walking with a baby that night, in their area. Probably just some nut case took her and killed her. They should look up all the schizophrenics in the area.
- Too bad the stupid police didn't announce to the public that the fire in the dumpster of a nearby apartment complex very well could've been related to the case. If this had been announced as soon as it was known, people in the apartment complex may have made some more connections.
Also noteworthy is that the guy was said to be about 5 foot 7 inches, I think.
- Baby Lisa Irwin: Eerie Similarities To Another Missing Baby Case
The case of missing baby Lisa Irwin has some strikingly eerie parallels to another missing baby case, RadarOnline.com has learned.
In 2007, when Lisa's mother Deborah Bradley and her husband, Pvt. Sean Bradley were living at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, one of his 82nd Airborne unit mates had an infant disappear.
The baby's mother Johni Michelle Heuser reported to the police that her 11-month-old daughter had been taken.
She told the cops she'd last seen little Harmony Creech at 11:30 pm before going to bed. When she went to get the baby at 11 am the next morning, to see her dad Ronald Creech who had just just gotten off a plane after returning home from service in Iraq -- the baby was gone.
Investigators found a window open in the house and suspected a kidnapping. An Amber Alert was issued.
Cops were always suspicious of Johni and within days she confessed to the baby's death. She said it was an accident she'd covered up out of fear her older children, from a previous relationship would be taken away.
Little Harmony's remains were found wrapped in a plastic diaper bag and hidden in the attic.
A jury didn't buy the accident defense. Heuser was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 11 to 15 years in prison.
Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin reported their 11-month-old daughter Lisa missing when he returned from a night shift job at about 4 am on October 4. Deborah said she'd last seen the baby before she went to bed the night before. Their front door was found unlocked, they told cops.
An Amber Alert was issued and massive searches were undertaken near their Missouri home.
Deborah is still married to Sean Bradley and has a son with him, although she and Irwin have said they're engaged.
As RadarOnline.com previously reported, in documents filed to obtain a search warrant of her parents' home on Friday, it was revealed that an FBI cadaver dog got a "hit" inside the house several days earlier.
- Interesting, R260.
- This reminds me of the Sabrina Aisenberg case, a weird one for sure. Sabrina would be 14 years old now and vanished without a trace.
- I remember people were saying Sabrina was so ugly, no one would steal her. Pretty nasty, huh? Missing children, no big deal down here.
- I remember the Sabrina Aisenberg case, the police were convinced the parents did it that they didn't concentrate on anyone or anything else.
- This story is heartbreaking.
- This shit is going to turn out like the Hayleigh Cummins case. Too many people involved right now.
- Homer & Marj must be devestated.
- It's hard to say. All the cops want to do is hang it on the mother and I really don't think the mother is guilty. Foolish, not too bright, yes but killing her child, I don't think so.
- Why aren't the fucking parents out searching for the baby?
From what I've read/heard, they aren't!
They still won't let the cops (or anyone else) talk to the other kids, either.
Trash, through and through.
- Agreed, R271. Elements in the police would call down any investigations into anything getting close to the truth.
- Shit is getting real, real weird that is. I am half-heartedly following so I really need to spend some time figuring this out. EIGHT people sharing a cellphone? I thought that Baby Lisa's parents didn't pay their bills so they had no phone service, so how was a call made?
KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -
A woman says investigators have questioned her four times about a cell phone call made from one of Debbie Bradley and Jeremy Irwin's cell phones just a few hours before they reported their daughter missing.
Megan Wright told CNN Monday that the telephone call came in between 8 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. Oct. 3.
Bradley and Irwin told police about 4 a.m. Oct. 4 that their daughter had been snatched was from her crib while she was sleeping. Bradley initially said she last saw her daughter at 10:30 p.m. Oct. 3, but later said she was drunk that night and last saw her daughter around 6:30 p.m.
Bradley and Irwin have repeatedly insisted that the kidnapper stole the family's three cell phones but the cell phones weren't working because of nonpayment. In court documents filed in mid-October, police said they have yet to recover the cell phones.
"I didn't have my phone at the time, but apparently there was a 50 second phone call from one of the family's phones to my cell phone. About 50 seconds long," she said. "I don't know what was said or who called or who answered my phone. But that's what the police have been questioning me about."
Wright said she received her phone back between 11 p.m. and 11:30 p.m. Oct. 3, just a few hours after the mysterious phone call was received.
Wright, who has been residing in a home about a mile from baby Lisa's home on Lister Avenue in the Northland, said she does not know either Irwin or Bradley.
She said she and seven other people she lives with share the cell phone, which is why she doesn't know some of the details about the phone call.
"We have eight people that live here and only one cell phone at the time so it was pretty much community (property)," she said. "Whoever needed my phone."
But Bill Stanton, a New York private detective working on the case, told Fox News this weekend that Wright may know someone connected to the case.
Wright dated a neighborhood handyman known as "Jersey."
"He's an ex-boyfriend of mine," Wright said Monday. "We dated for about five months. I met him when I lived further down on Brighton. He was just a friend of a friend. He and I were together, for like I said, about five months. After I ended up moving in here, we broke up shortly afterwards and it was a couple of weeks before baby Lisa went missing."
Wright said she did not know whether "Jersey" knew Bradley or Irwin. She said as a drifter he went door to door looking for work and may have stopped at their home.
Whether "Jersey" or someone else received the 50 second phone call was unknown Monday night. It was also unclear Monday how Wright's cell phone could have received such a call from one of the Bradley-Irwin cell phones since the parents had said they were incapable of making phone calls.
Kansas City Police Department spokesman Steve Young said he could not discuss investigators interviews with Wright. However, Young did say the man known as "Jersey" has been interviewed and cleared of any involvement in the baby's disappearance.
"We spoke to him and are moving on," Young said.
Police have cleared more than a 1,000 leads. Lisa went missing four weeks ago. Bradley has said she expects to be arrested in connection with her daughter's disappearance, but police have not publicly identified a person of interest in the case.
Wright told CNN that she had placed an online advertisement for an electronics item and used the cell phone number called by the Irwin-Bradley cell phone. She said the FBI saw the number and set up a fake appointment to buy the item shortly after baby Lisa went missing, Wright said. That is when the first interview occurred.
- Lord, what a bunch of white-trash losers.
I think either the parents sold the kid or one of these other losers stole and sold the kid.
- Details emerge about the night baby Lisa Irwin disappeared
By GLENN E. RICE
The Kansas City Star
The night before her 10-month-old daughter disappeared, Deborah Bradley spent several hours talking with a friend, smoking cigarettes and drinking five to 10 glasses of wine.
Bradley became so intoxicated that she could not recall later whether she checked on Lisa Irwin in her crib before going to bed herself about 10:30 p.m., according to a source familiar with the family’s recollection of events from Oct. 3 and 4.
For the first time, the source provided details of what happened, according to Lisa’s parents, in the hours leading up to the moment they realized Lisa was gone from their Kansas City home on North Lister Avenue.
It was an unusual night for the family. Lisa’s father, Jeremy Irwin, had taken on an extra work assignment to help the family catch up on bills. Normally, he would have been home at night.
According to the source:
Irwin came home from his day job as an electrician about 2:30 that afternoon, which was the first Monday in October. He stayed long enough to have dinner with his family and play with the children.
About 4:30 p.m., Bradley and her brother, Phillip Netz, left to go a neighborhood store to buy a box of wine and baby supplies. Irwin stayed with Lisa and her half-brothers, ages 8 and 5.
About 5 p.m., Netz and Bradley returned from the store. Netz soon left. About 30 minutes later, Irwin headed to work at a Starbucks, but he did not expect the work to keep him away from home as long as it did.
Samantha Brando, a next door neighbor in her 20s, came over to the Irwin house with her 4-year-old daughter. The daughter played with Lisa’s half-brothers.
Bradley put Lisa in her crib about 6:40 p.m., while Brando headed to a store to purchase liquor for herself.
Brando returned to the Irwin home about 7 p.m. and sat on the front stoop with Bradley. The two smoked cigarettes, talked and drank into the night.
By 10:30 p.m., Bradley, who had consumed five to 10 glasses of wine, was intoxicated. She told Brando that she was going to bed. Brando left.
The boys fell asleep in bed with Bradley. The door to Lisa’s bedroom already was closed to block out noise from the boys playing earlier.
Irwin finished his work at Starbucks at 3:45 a.m. and drove to his Northland home. Though he had worked through much of the night, he had not called home from Starbucks.
At home, he noticed the front door unlocked and the lights on, which was unusual. He walked to the computer room and realized the window was open. He tried to shut it but couldn’t because it wouldn’t work properly.
He walked to the boys’ room and saw that the older boy was in his bed on the top bunk. The younger boy still was in bed with Bradley.
The door to Lisa’s room was open, but Irwin did not peek inside. He walked by and entered his bedroom.
A stray cat that Bradley had brought into the home was at the foot of their bed. Bradley awoke. Irwin asked her what was going on, why the front door was open and the lights were on. Bradley said she did not know.
Irwin then realized that he had not checked on Lisa. He went to her room. Her crib was empty. He went back to his bedroom and asked Bradley about the baby’s whereabouts. Bradley said she didn’t know.
Irwin ran to the Brando home and banged on the front door. He asked Brando if Lisa was there. She asked why Lisa would be there and not at home.
Panic ensued. Irwin called police on his work cellphone, after noticing that the home cellphones were missing.
Calling out the home’s address, a dispatcher told officers to respond on a “reported residential burglary in progress.”
Seconds later she said, “Contact Jeremy. … He noticed his screen is busted and his 10-month-old daughter is missing.
“He advises that he didn’t witness anything and doesn’t know how long she’s been gone.”
- [quote]Irwin finished his work at Starbucks at 3:45 a.m
That's completely bogus. No way would anyone be working at Starbucks at 3:45 a.m.
- He was doing a contract electrical job, r277.
- Some of the Starbucks are being remodeled now in KC area. Maybe he was working after hours on electrical work for a remodel.
- I think that Jeremy's alibi is airtight - perhaps he was on security cameras and/or had multiple corroborating witnesses. I also think that Drunk Mom took the baby into bed with her and at least one of the boys and somebody smothered the baby. You don't put a sick baby in her crib at 6:30 and NEVER check on her again.
My alternative theory is that she gave the baby medicine and overdosed her.
- I think that r280 is on to something.
I just wonder who in the world would be walking around the neighborhood for hours, holding something that looks like a baby?
If the baby was dead, wouldn't you find some place to put it by then?!
- I don't buy the smothering or overmedicating story. If she had done either she would have rushed the child to the hospital or called 911, not covered it up.
- I don't think the parents did anything. But I do think that they have some weird baggage or issues that may have played into the abduction of the baby, like why they family was targeted.
- Shame threads about the horrific deaths of children in Somalia don't generate such interest. I'm not sure I'd say it's about passive racism, but more about liberal frothing & foaming over a missing baby in a western country.
- I can guarantee you that the baby is going into child protective custody as soon she's found.
- KFC was closed. Mama was HUNGRY. Case closed.
- Faux News just announced that the cops have stopped searching for the baby.
- Oh no
- [quote]Shame threads about the horrific deaths of children in Somalia don't generate such interest. I'm not sure I'd say it's about passive racism, but more about liberal frothing & foaming over a missing baby in a western country.
Wouldn't you be the one doing the liberal frothing here?
- The simplest explanation is often the right one.
- We can't do anything about Somalia. Why think about something that we can't change? We can't even fix our own government. This baby is a mystery, a distraction from the truely horrific.
- R287, they were of no help from the beginning.
- Still sad over this case bump.
- I think they need to talk to the neighbor the mother was drinking with. The neighbor, or someone she may have talked to that night. According to the linked article, a lot of child abductions are by women concerned about a baby's care.
- I think that due to all the coverage of missing children, parents know how to get rid of the body and stay out of jail.
- r284 - People are always more interested in things closer to home. Is that really something that puzzles you?
[quote]You don't put a sick baby in her crib at 6:30 and NEVER check on her again.
Unless you're drunk faced.
- So where did the mom bury her?
- [quote]Police arrest mother in death of Missouri tot
[quote]Tyler Dasher was reported missing from his home about 10 miles southwest of St. Louis, around 11 a.m. Tuesday. His mother told police she overslept that morning and discovered him gone from his crib when she awoke.
- Any updates?
- R237, can you post more about what you know?
- Wow I totally forgot about this thread. Can't say much more R303. My SIL goes into the "spas" with her group and hands out cards to the girls but they are not allowed to help them leave, they can only talk to them about help outside if they leave. She said there have been quite a few cases where police, judges and INS agents have been busted taking money or being actively involved in the smuggling but it's kept out of the media so make of that what you will. Frankly I think the government has no desire to stop human or drug smuggling because they are profiting from it.
- Any news on Baby Lisa?
- Nancy Grace has even given up on it R305.
- R306, she's a lying hack. I've never watched her.
- [quote]So where did the mom bury her?
The mom put Lisa's body in a dumpster near an apartment block and set it on fire, a couple of hours before the dad came home.
- So, has there been any progress in this case?