Tell me about Minneapolis/St. Paul, please. Potentially moving there from New York for graduate school. I know about the horrifically cold winters. Is there any real culture there to speak of? How does the city compare to Chicago? Does having to drive everywhere get frustrating? (or is there somewhat adequate public transportation in parts?) I trust DL more than info I could find on Google.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Cultural wasteland. They're still giving standing O's to Riverdance.
Probably the highlight of Patti LuPone's recent memoir was when she partially blamed the poor reviews of her performance as Rosalind in AS YOU LIKE IT at the Guthrie was poorly reviewed on the "fact" that Saint Paul (she claims) is the occult capital of the USA.
I am not making this up.
People who live there love it and never leave.
It has great charm and an underground transportation system to keep out the chilly weather.
Good luck to you. You will like it. It's very similar to Chicago, but the people are Midwestern nice.
You might just make it there after all.
I've been there. It's a nice, friendly city with a sizable gay community. There are these "bridges" between buildings so moving around downtown in the winter is not the nightmare you might expect.
I was there for the Frings festival and had a great time. I agree it's similar to Chicago.
People who live there do seem to love it.
Ooh yeah, and the Westin has the best brunch ever, doncha know?!
"Minnesota nice" is a myth.
Um... Margie goes to the Radisson. And for lunch, not brunch.
We'll have to put r6 through the woodchipper.
But Shep, I was bangin' that girl!
Tons of culture - music, readings by authors, poetry readings, art, symphony, constant stream of famous musicians and groups giving concerts, premier rock club called First Avenue, tons of theater - always lots of plays.
One of the best public transit systems in the U.S. - great bus system
Very progressive city and city government
large gay population
tons of people into the arts
Take a look at citypages.com
vita-mn.com and metromix.com - and you will see tons of cultural offerings
R1 is a complete and utter moron and is brain dead
The constant stream of famous musicians and famous music groups giving concerts includes all types of music and all types of performers.
Every famous musician on tour plays in Minneapolis or St. Paul - so it's a never ending stream.
Couldn't get into NYU, OP?
Minneapolis is the nicest city in the midwest, other than perhaps Chicago. It's definitely a good place to move. It was my second choice after Boston.
Minneapolis is the "cooler" of the two cities and feels more like a large city, where St. Paul is a quieter mix of working-class, collegiate types (lots of private colleges in St. Paul) and state workers.
Lots of excellent neighborhoods throughout both cities (more in Minneapolis) and some of the first-ring suburbs are actually not bad.
It can get extremely cold in the winter. Snow is fun at first, but can be a pain in the ass.
The Walker Art Center is a must if you like modern art and the Guthrie Theater has a worldwide reputation. Because of the isolation and the winters, there is more live entertainment than you might expect. There is a ton of live theater and a healthy live music scene.
Minnesotans tend to be well educated, civic-minded and liberal, despite Michelle Bachmann. The Twin Cities are usually right up there with Seattle and Portland as the most literate cities in the U.S.
Minnesotans also tend to be more insular and not always friendly to outsiders. They're not quite as worldy as they think they are, either, but part of that comes from being so isolated.
Some people like to say the Twin Cities feel like a smaller version of Chicago, but I have never agreed with that. There are some similarities, but Chicago feels grittier and more industrial. Chicago is also significantly larger, but somehow feels more homogenous to me.
You mean "Minneapolis!"
R15, I agree with everything you said except 'being so isolated'.
Minneapolis/St. Paul is not isolated at all.
Nor are the people who live there.
Minneapolis/St Paul is the opposite of isolated. The people are very culturally attuned and aware of the world.
And because people in Minneapolis tend to be well-educated, civic-minded, and liberal, they are also very well-traveled. And well-traveled people are not isolated in mind and not in body.
It has no underground transit just one light rail line which has 1 underground station at the airport. That said, ridership is quite high. I don't know why Mpls is so slow to get on the mass transit bandwagon, probably because its freeway system is so good, bigger than Dallas' for a much smaller population.
But then corners were cut and corruption was not exactly banished from the equation in either city. They were way out front with bike lanes though, and some of the neighborhoods are just so "cute" with vaguely central European charm, like Linden Hills, that you just can't stand it! You will not mistake any part of it for Europe though, or any place but the most midwestern of midwestern places. And sadly, the University is hideously ugly and not in the best of neighborhoods, although all neighborhoods in Minneapolis and Saint Paul are fairly safe in comparison to the rest of urban America.
The people are LOUD and provincial. They support culture out of loyalty to Scandinavian or German or Irish traditions, but they have no "feeling" for it. Art is not a part of their lives, just a collection. And their liberalism is both over and undersold. It was originally ECONOMIC, not social, liberalism and non-conformity very much frowned on. So gays were not persecuted but the gay community was weak and diffused; whereas unions were strong and the working class coddled. But there is no doubt they've been conquered by corporatism in a particularly unselfaware way that has actually broadened their social liberalism but hurt their former economic liberalism.
Minneapolis is one of the biggest bicycle cities in the U.S.
It has very well-developed bicycle routes which are heavily used. And many are scenic.
All within the city.
Also three lakes right in the center of the city with bicycle routes going around them.
Large bicycle riding population in Minneapolis.
Prince hails from there. Also, his landmark film "Purple Rain" was partially filmed there, and most of the musicians from his camp are from there.
Janet Jackson recorded most of her albums there.
It's fucking cold.
R18, Minneapolis/St Paul has one of the very best bus systems in the U.S.
Just because you do not wish to ride the extensive bus system in Minneapolis, it doesn't mean a huge number of people in Minneapols are as backward as you are about it - there are millions of bus trips and riders per year.
I lived there for a few years. Managed to survive without a car. Be prepared to bundle up before you go outside though. The length of the winters did get to me. The bus system is good.
There isn't as much culture as Chicago, but there's still good museums, plays, and most touring bands stop there. Most of the city is much safer than Chicago, or at least was 10 years ago. I lived in the Uptown area and my neighborhood felt more like a slightly more urban Ann Arbor than a big city. I was able to walk to most everything except my job, which was only a 15 minute bus ride away. It was great being only a few blocks away from the lakes.
I am quite introverted and found it difficult to make friends. The people are pretty smart, but most of them have lived there all their lives and aren't as warm to outsiders as people in Chicago or Detroit. If you are more extroverted you might do better.
They tend to be very defensive (see R21). Also, while it is COLD, and dark in winter, it is actually sunnier and dryer than places like New York and Boston and Chicago and Cleveland, so if you have SAD, Minneapolis might actually improve it. They also have extensive downtown second floor walkway systems connecting the buildings, something like 100 blocks, but nothing like that out at the U.
Many hunky guys but relatively low number of minorities and troubles from the Somalis.
The second light rail line, connecting downtown St. Paul and downtown Minneapolis and going through the U of M, is under construction now. I think it opens in 2014. It is seriously going to change things, and I think it's going to make downtown St. Paul more of a nighttime destintation.
The skyway downtown is great. If you work downtown, you barely need to go outside once you get to work because most of the buildings are connected.
Minneapolis has an extensive theater scene - with a large number of venues for plays.
There are always 12 or 15 plays going on simultaneously at any given time.
And the main downtown street has taken historic preservation seriously and preserved a good number of theaters that are similar to Broadway theaters and are used for music performances by major known musicians and for plays and dance -
all on Hennepin Ave downtown - State Theater, Orpheum Theater, Pantages Theater, Cowles Center for Dance, New Century Theater, and others.
Minneapolis/St Paul has the largest Hmong population in the U.S.
(and there are Hmong in other Minnesota towns too)
Minneapolis/St Paul also has one of the largest Somalian populations in the U.S.
(might have the largest Somalian population in the U.S.)
There is also a good-sized black population and a good number of latinos. And there is gang activity among both.
Grew up there so I am biased, but I'd say the two big drawbacks are the winters, the brutality of which are hard to describe unless you've experienced them, and a relative lack of good restaurants.
That said, the air is clean, the people are generally liberal and between Neiman Marcus, Saks, Bloomingdales and Nordstrom the shopping is good enough. And you can drive an hour from those stores and be in wonderful wilderness if that's your thing. You're never more than a few miles from a body of water.
As said, the arts scene is better than you would expect. The Guthrie is a national treasure and their childrens theater is arguably the best in the country. Summers are great between the new baseball stadium and open air concerts around Nicollette Mall.
Finally, as someone who lives in Los Angeles, the Twin Cities are extraordinarily CLEAN. You could eat dinner off the sidewalks. Violent crime is very low and what homeless people can brave the winters are adequately cared for by shelters.
Finally, their Senators are the fab Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken.
I moved from the east coast to the Twin Cities for college and then stayed for 16 years. Now that I've been forced to relocate, I miss Minneapolis terribly. For me, MSP was the perfect size and blend of just about everything. I especially loved the people. Well, maybe not all of them, but the percentage of ignorant or criminal types is far lower than any other US metro of its size.
For me, winter was not a big deal. If you live in an apt/condo, get one with parking underneath, which is fairly common. That alone will take about 2/3 of the annoyance out of winter.
It can be easy to forget the racial diversity R28 mentions, because the Twin Cities tend to be pretty segregated. Everyone knows exactly which are the Somalian and Latin and Hmong neighborhoods.
On the other hand, I think gay people are far more intergrated into the mainstream here than many other large cities. There aren't really gay ghettos, at least not in the Boystown sense. The gay men, and couples, I know are spread all over the two metro areas, and to a lesser extent the first-ring burbs. Most of the lesbians I know live in the more outer-ring burbs.
There is a tremendous amount of wealth in the Twin Cities, much of it from self-made titans. Those folks mostly live in far-out, small towns based around lakes, although there are a few quaint old city neighborhoods with historic mansions.
The men tend to be very good looking in the All-American sense, even though it's mostly chilly Nordic genes that make them so handsome.
Oh and the bugs. Minnesota is plagued with very large and very slow bugs. For example, you will be buzzed by loud slow mosquitos that you can easily smash. Somewhat satisfying in killing them compared to more nimble bugs elsewhere, but not exactly good for the karma.
Except OP is from New York R30, so not used to driving, much less driving in SNOW. Nor issues like special cold weather starting procedures.
r33, they're very good (and fast) at keeping the roads plowed and salted. And it really doesn't snow that much. It's too far west to get the big accumulations that the great lakes cities do.
Driving in snow and ice isn't that hard, it just takes some patience and practice. The most important thing is you have to pay a lot more attention to the road than normal. To me, the scariest thing about driving in the snow is the other drivers on the road.
The first major winter storm proves there are plenty of people who forget how to do it in just a matter of months.
To clarify, I (the OP) have been living in Manhattan for about 10 years but am not originally from here (from small-town Montana, of all places). I'm weighing the pros and cons of staying in NY versus going somewhere more affordable. I've had fun in NY but I'm tired of paying so much when there's no longer anything in NY that couldn't do without. So I'm looking into cities which hopefully will have some culture and life without being such a constant drain on my expenses. I'm not too worried about the cold factor because I've lived through midwestern winters when I was much younger and know how much they objectively suck.
I'm really enjoying reading everyone's responses. Sounds pretty positive so far. I've been to Minneapolis a couple of times, but I was much younger and haven't been immersed in the city enough to get a real read on it. I'm familiar with small town and huge-city (NY) life but not really much in between, so thank you.
Do people tend to pay attention to style in the same way that they do in NY? I'd guess it's somewhat more lax, but is it strictly sweats and t-shirts or do people (both men and women) attempt to look nice?
Would someone there be weirded out if you struck up a conversation with them at a coffee shop or do people tend to mind their own business like in NY?
R31, Somalians and latinos live all over the city. They are not segregated at all.
I'm white in a mostly white neighborhood and there are plenty of Somalians and latios in apartment buildings in my neighborhood.
[quote]Do people tend to pay attention to style in the same way that they do in NY? I'd guess it's somewhat more lax, but is it strictly sweats and t-shirts or do people (both men and women) attempt to look nice?
It is more lax, for absolute certain. Although most of the U.S. is compared to Manhattan.
Some attempt to look nice, more try hard NOT to look like they care about how they look with sometimes bizarre results. Most are slobs but perhaps less than in say, Wisconsin.
People will talk to you in coffee shops, sometimes aggressively if they sense you are trying to keep to yourself.
Another thing to be warned about: people don't know how to handle crazies so some of the very violent crazy types are given a lattitude they should not be.
OP, i moved from NY to MInneapolis a few years ago. I did it for my career and thought I'd suffer a social life. It was quite the opposite. great town, fantastic people. It's no NY, and it will take a few months to adjust, but once you do, you can really appreciate it. And the people are not as edgy or fashionable, but there is a stylish scene. The guys are actually much more savvy than the women in general, they tend to be much more of the dowdy, doughy blonde type.
Also, you can rent a fantastic loft in the warehouse district for less than you'd get a crappy studio in hells kitchen.
I had to move again for my career and if I could, I'd go back in a heartbeat. I still have great friends from there.
[quote]Although most of the U.S. is compared to Manhattan.
You mean certain parts of Manhattan. The same is true of Minneapolis or most any city. You've got your prissy types who've been programmed to think that wearing a flimsy tightish black shirt with equally embarrassing pants and shoes is "style." If that's your thing, you can find other prissies or hipsters or whatever you like in Minneapolis. But I try to steer clear of people with clothing agendas.
I agree on clothing agendas, R43, mainly was asking because it would feel weird for me to move to somewhere where the pendulum has swung the total opposite way with everyone wearing sweats.
Not really sure what R40 is talking about.
Where would there be a city of the size of Minneapolis where 'everyone is wearing sweats'?
Or even where the majority wear sweats?
What a bizarre statement.
There are no cities where wearing 'sweats' is the norm.
R46, I didn't mean it so literally. I was just trying to gauge the degree to which people care about what they wear. Anyway, forget the "sweats" debate, didn't mean to derail.
Like little houses, all of them!
I love Minneapolis. I met my husband there 40 years ago at Gay House. One of the first community gay drop in places in the country. It was -15 degrees out that night.
[quote]there are plenty of Somalians and latios in apartment buildings in my neighborhood.
Are they hot?
OP, I am from Minnesota and after moving around for a while settled back in Minneapolis seven years ago. I found a partner two years later and we really love it here. The winters do get to me at times, but he doesn't mind them. We own a house right now in SE Minneapolis near the Lake Street bridge, but someday we will escape to a condo with underground parking so we no longer have to worry about shoveling and ice dams on the roof. But the brutal winters make the coming of spring wondrous; the summers can be wonderfully hot and sticky, great for swimming; and the autumns are beautiful.
If you are looking for nightlife and to meet people, you should live downtown or one of the neighborhoods adjoining - Loring Park, the Warehouse District or Near Northeast. You'll be able to walk to gay bars like the Saloon, Jet Set, Bolt/Eagle and 19; as well as mixed-crowd spots like Nick and Eddie, Lurcat, Nye's, Red Stag, the Bulldog and many others. I'd avoid living in Uptown, at least its traditional heart at Lake and Hennepin as it's really been colonized by corporate chain shopping and the fratty, 20-something white collar crowd. Lyndale south of downtown is still pretty cool though as the hipsters move east from Uptown.
I have to strongly disagree with a previous poster who criticized the "relative lack of good restaurants." We're certainly not NYC or Chicago but this is a good restaurant city. My partner and I eat out 1-2 times a week at least and there's still usually 2-3 places on our list of spots to try. I'd say there's a dozen legitimate foodie destinations and a whole lot of others aspiring to be that good and often succeeding. There's amazing ethnic places sprinkled all over the place - half a dozen amazing Vietnamese restaurants, a growing list of African places, and you can also find Thai, Korean, authentic Szechuan, Indian, Mediterranean, numerous Latin American cuisines including Cuban and Ecuadorian, and great authentic Mexican up and down East Lake Street.
There are lots of little touches that make a city more livable. Neighborhood bars. More than half a dozen really nice, independent new and used books stores. A couple co-op grocery stores with amazing selection. Reliably liberal city government (as long as you stay in Mpls or St. Paul). The amazing bike trails and lanes that others have mentioned. And so forth.
The only other thing I hate, besides the winters, is that you can only buy beer/wine/spirits in liquor stores and by law they are all closed Sunday. It's so stupid.
One political thing to mention - there's a statewide vote next year on a constitutional gay marriage ban that's probably going to be ugly and divisive. But I think we're going to vote this nasty thing down - and if you move here you'll be another vote against it!
I love you Jason @ r48.
I meant to sign "Sheila Carter Grainger Forrester Warwick."
Big theater town. Good orchestras, and museums. Socially quite uptight. Politically generally progressive, at .
The Walker Art Center, The ST. Paul Chamber Orch, and The Guthrie are world renowned. Both twin cities have some lovely neighborhoods. There is a large gay community and a very high standard of living compared to NYC. Many people love living there. I was quite young when I did, in law school, and depressed, so the fact that I did not enjoy it shouldn't dissuade you.
There are many fine theater companies beside the Guthrie.
There is a ton of live theater, of widely varying quality.
The Fringe Festival in August is always fun.
Does anyone remember the days when bus stop shelters had overhead heaters and there were hot plates in the park to heat up your picnic dishes?
The accent alone will drive you insane.
Ohhhhh no ya' don't!
There is not an accent in Minneapolis/St Paul, no matter how much you always insist there is in EVERY Minneapolis thread, R57.
(any accent exists just in the isolated rural areas of northern Minnesota and among rural farmers)
I know you will scream this is not true, R57, but you are an imbecile.
R56, there still are heaters in MANY bus shelters in Minneapolis.
What the heck do ya mean?!
Sir, you have no call to get snippy with me!
R59, you can hear that accent, even in the metro.
Not everyone has it, but plenty of people do. Just go to a suburban Byerly's.
[quote]There is not an accent in Minneapolis/St Paul, no matter how much you always insist there is in EVERY Minneapolis thread, [[R57]].
You post this every single time there's a threadf about the Twin Cities, and everyone disagrees with you and tells you you're in incredible denial. And I will again: you're in incredible denial.
I grew up in Saint Paul, and OF COURSE people speak with a (HEAVY) Minnesota accent there. I have lived outside of the Twin Cities for twenty years, and every single time I go back to the Cities (NOT the rural parts of the state, where I never go, but in the actual Twin Cities) I hear it constantly. My parents don't speak with it because they grew up out of state, but my siblings speak with it, my friends speak with it, and almost every salesperson or barista or cashier I meet speaks with it.
If you don't hear it yourself, there's something wrong with you. Like you're in incredible denial, for example.
By the way: I am NOT r57.
There is definitely an accent in Minnesota, oh yeah.
R63, 'everyone' does not disagree with me.
'everyone' consists of only one very vocal person and you, R63
There are only 2 or 3 posters on Datalounge who insist on screaming about there being an accent -
you and R62 can always be counted on to insist that there is an accent in Minneapolis.
Perhaps, you and your relatives in St. Paul and lower class and/or stem from rural families going back decades or stem from families of farmers. Or perhaps most of your family are uneducated.
are lower class
Other than your siblings, perhaps your friends salespersons, baristas, and cashiers you encounter are lower class and/or stem from rural families going back decades or stem from families of farmers, and/or are uneducated.
The fact is whatever of quality is missing from Minneapolis/St. Paul will not be found in Chicago. Better to freeze (and you freeze in Chi too) the winters than endure the loud-mouthed idiocy on the lake.
Better to live in Milwaukee than Chicago, for that matter. Chicago is the worst big city in the country, and even Pittsburgh, Cleveland and St. Louis are better. No, not Detroit.
As R66-R68 proves, Minnesotans are also known to enjoy alcohol.
Well, it *is* where Andrew Cunanan began his killing spree.
Make of that what you will!
They have a great gay scene here too!
Her you go, here are Minnesota peeps: good peeps with an accent!
What kind of a ninny insists there is NO accent among the people of a particular locale? EVERYONE EVERYWHERE has an accent of some kind. To think otherwise belies a bizarrely insular mentality.
(She doesn't get out of town often, r75)
Many people in the U.S. have no pronounced accent.
While some locales in the U.S. do have promounced accents, many residents of certain states do not have pronounced accents. They just speak like an american.
People in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho, for example, do not have a pronounced accent.
[quote]People in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho, for example, do not have a pronounced accent.
To anyone outside of those areas they do R77.
One cannot recognize that someone is from Michigan or Kansas or Iowa. They have no pronounced accents that distinguish them as being from Michigan or Kansas or Iowa.
When someone from Montana, Wyoming, or Idaho speaks, you cannot immediately tell they are from Wyoming or Montana or Idaho because they do not have a distiquishing, pronounced accent that identifies them as such.
Visited there a few winters ago but LOVED LOVED LOVED it. People, both men and women, were surprisingly good-looking.
[quote] They have no pronounced accents that distinguish them as being from Michigan or Kansas or Iowa.
Listen to Michele Bachmann (from Iowa), and tell me that woman does not have an accent.
I agree, Michigan is hard to nail.
There is no distinquishing, pronounced accent to identify that someone is from Kansas.
If you did not know what state Michelle Bachmann is from before hearing her speak, in no way could you identify her as being from Iowa.
She has no pronounced accent which identifies her as being from Iowa above other states.
If you knew nothing about her and heard her speak, you could not pinpoint that she was born in Iowa.
She moved to Minnesota when she was 13, by the way.
I agree with R69 that Chicago is the most overrated city in the country. So many expensive neighborhoods like Wicker Park and Lincoln Park are not pleasant to walk in at all. I've driven there to see some shows, but I'm always happy to get out of town once the event's over.
Read the Second City Cop blog for the skinny on how that town is going down the tubes.
I'd live in Minneapolis again, though, if I hadn't put down roots elsewhere. It's much more livable.
Being from Michigan I didn't often notice a pronounced accent like you hear from Michele Bachmann. Most of them just sounded like Michiganders to me, except maybe not as nasal as some from the Mitten State can be.
The "there's no Minnesota accent" troll is a moron.
You are misquoting and misinterpreting, R91.
I said people in Minneapolis do not speak with an accent.
Do you not know the difference between Minneapolis, the city, and the whole state of Minnesota?
And I said an accent sometimes exists among older farmers in Minnesota and in rural areas of Minnesota and in rural families in northern Minnesota. And in people who have families from rural backgrounds.
R91, your statement shows that you have no discernment and are not detail-oriented at all.
[quote]The "there's no Minnesota accent" troll is a moron.
I'd say that anyone who brings out the "troll" label simply because he doesn't like a post is the moron.
The accent thing is ridiculous. There is an identifiable accent in the region that differs in some ways from what is considered standard American English, but it is so slight that it's hard to notice - certainly compared to other regions that are considered to have accents. In the Twin Cities area you wouldn't notice it unless you're obsessive about such things.
OMG, Michelle Bachmann sounds like she just stepped out of the movie, Fargo. LMAO.
I lived there for 30 years. The accent is thicker and more common in the rural areas, but it's plentiful in MSP and the suburbs. Watch the newscasters - Belinda Jensen, Sven Sundgaard, and even Amelia Santaniello who is from the East Coast.
There are variations on the accent, but it's obvious. Of course, everyone insists they have no accent.
R94 is correct. In Minneapolis/St Paul, any accent is rarely heard. Any accent in Minneapolis/St Paul is non-existent.
And the three newscasters which R96 lists, do not have an accent.
A slight accent might be occasionally heard in the far-flung distant suburbs, but that is because some people living there are rural or their families/relatives. have a rural background.
And the few people who insist there is an accent in Minneapolis/St Paul are lower class, uneducated, and they deal with the lower classes as friends and service people who have families with rural backgrounds.
For the person thinking there is an accent everywhere in the U.S.,people from Oregon, Washington state, Wyoming, Utah, Montana, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Iowa, California, New Mexico, Arizona, and some other states have no pronounced, distinguishable accent where you can tell where they are from.
I've lived in Minneapolis/St Paul off and on for almost 30 years and I have never encountered any accent in the cities of Minneapolis/St Paul.
I am very urban and a city person. I do not go to far-flung distant suburbs where people with rural backgrounds tend to live.
And I am very well-traveled.
The only thing I ever notice is a few "o" sounds. But you really have to be listening for it.
[quote]I said people in Minneapolis do not speak with an accent.
It's all relative. To someone from England or even Peru, trust me, they have an accent. It may be milder than other parts of Minnesota but it is an accent nonetheless. Only children think they have no accent, and ignorant, provincial americans, apparently.
r101, that's only because you're pretending that standards don't exist. But they do.
Who cares about the supposed accent? The real question is if the men are hot.
Enough about the fucking accent.
Let's talk about the GAY BASHING SOMALIAN GANGS.
[quote]It was my second choice after Boston.
Well, you just discredited yourself.
Fascinating that such an "isolated" metropolitan area could have produced a globally reaching musical scene. From 1981-91 it was all about MSP. Some have speculated that because it is technically on the Mississippi, the area provides a link to other vibrant areas down south (Memphis, New Orleans etc)
Add me as yet another person who grew up in the Twin Cities who knows people from Minneapolis and Saint Paul often do speak with an accent, despite the one troll (and yes, she is a troll) who keeps hysterically posting over and over again to the contrary (at r59, r67, r68, r77, r80, r81, r82, r86, r92, r97, r98, and... whew!... r99).
Troll, just posting the same thing over and over again in one thread isn't going to convince people when they have the evidence of their own ears. I grew up there and go back twice a year to visit my family, and like other people on this thread, I know that people in the Twin Cities speak with a Minnesota accent.
And it is not a class thing, either. Wealthy people speak with Minnesota accents in the Twin Cities just as working-class people do.
R106, rent is much cheaper in MSP than other big US cities, and the 7 or 8 months of bad weather is conducive to creativity.
R104, I haven't been to Minneapolis in about 10 years. How bad is the Somali problem?
r107, you seem to have a strange agenda. I mean to get so worked up about it that you go through the thread isolating every post that disputed the viewpoint you so desperately want to project. "[italic]Why there's no way that multiple people could have a view counter to mine[/italic]" Yeah, OK.
"Yeah, OK" sounds a bit Minnesotan to me.
r108, the Somali influx has been a bad thing. It's created a lot of crime around the U of M. Minneapolis has always been a very safe place considering its size, but now you've got to be careful around the U. But keep in mind, those complaints are by Twin Cities standards, which means it's still almost crime-free compared to many US cities.
Moved away recently after living in Minneapolis for 20 years. It is a clean city, with beautiful summers. The people are cool, and passive aggressive. It can be challenging for "outsiders" to make friends if you move to Minneapolis from elsewhere. The restaurant scene is generally abysmal.
[quote][R107], you seem to have a strange agenda. I mean to get so worked up about it that you go through the thread isolating every post that disputed the viewpoint you so desperately want to project. "Why there's no way that multiple people could have a view counter to mine" Yeah, OK.
You seem to be mystified by the wondrous device known as "troll-dar."
Try the troll-dar button on any one of the people identified at r107 and see what happens to the others. It's a marvelous thing, and makes things so much easier!
The Twin Cities area has it's own character that's hard to describe to someone who's never lived there. It's a combination of civilized, educated, functional, and friendly in a way that most places are not. It's not a high pressure lifestyle, but things still get done well. And Minnesotans seem to be some of the few people left in the US who know that government can work.
Winter can be a shock if you're not used to it. But like others have said, it's not too bad if you prepare for it.
Kelly Pickler does a spot-on Minnesaoa accent today on Ellen, not available yet onYT, hilarious! Very few performers (if any) have ever nailed the accent like Pickler.
So, uh, you married old Norm son-of-a-Gunderson?
More about the looks of the people, please.
R117, I have lived in Minneapolis for 30 years and have never heard anyone speak with that exaggerated accent which is a parody and a parody from Fargo.
It's a parody. Are you that lacking in intellect?
It is also possible that Kellie's mother in law grew up on an isolated farm in very rural Minnesota and has somewhat of an accent.
But don't try to pin the parody onto urban people living in Minneapolis or even 90 percent of other Minnesotans. It's a parody, you idiot.
LOL! Give it up, hun.
I'm sorry, I... I shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have done this, I shouldn't have... I thought we'd have a really terrific time.
Mike Yanagita, at the Minneapolis Flyover Radisson
All of the taxi drivers are Somalian. And they often have bad temperments. They anger quickly.
And they sometimes or often do not know where they are going.
They still behave as if they are living in war-torn gang dominated Somalia with their poor temperaments.
Many of the nursing assistants in hospitals are Somalian too. Not a good profession for their temperaments.
R122, seriously, in this day and age? Come on man.
r80 is incorrect about Michiganders not having an accent.
As a Bay Area native (this place is filled with ex-Michiganders and ex- Minnesotans, for that matter) I can hear their accent, which to me is like a cross between upstate New York and Chicago, but subtle.
I would love to experience a low crime rate, and real seasons for one year. MSP seems like the place to do it.
People living in the entire lower half of Michigan (or even the bottom three-fourths of the state) do not have a pronounced accent that is distinguishable, or even any accent at all.
People from Kansas, Iowa, Ohio, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Oregon, Washington State, and California do not have a distinguishable accent.
I've heard that the Ohio(not southern Ohio) accent(or lack of accent) is what the news people aim to achieve. Although with a great deal of phoniness put into the mix, too.
R125 You can add Indiana and Illinois (other than Chicago) as well.
I did not list Missouri, Indiana, and Illinois.
Why not state what it is your link to wikipedia says rather than just linking to wikipedia? Too complicated for you to state it? Issues ARE often complicated.
Minneapolis is the Paris of flyover country.
Margie, doncha knoooow?
So true R131. I've often speculated to my friends, "do you think he's gay or just from California?"
The point is that you cannot distinguish that someone is automatically from those states by hearing them speak.
If someone is from Oregon and Washington state and you hear them speak, you cannot automatically determine that they are from Oregon and Wash state just by hearing them speak.
They do not have a distinguishing accent that tells you they are automatically from Oregon or Wash.
Is this too difficult of a concept for you?
Exactly R133. It is the height of arrogance to assume anyone is going to take the time to read your stupid shit, R132. No one's that interested.
A lot of the California straights seem more gay than the flyover gays. I thinks it's just the cultural influence that they start mimicking.
I think all these assertions about people not having an accent are bizarre. I grew up in a tourist town where most people had a "neutral" (i.e., newscaster, i.e., mild, not very grating Midwestern) accent. It became easy to pick out where people were from by the way they spoke. There are many varieties of Midwest accent, but the person who claimed people from Michigan don't have any at all is in denial, oblivious or deaf. It's harsh, grating, nasal and has very hard rs. Yes, it does sound like a Rochester/Buffalo accent, or Chicago. It starts to morph as you move into Wisconsin and by the time you're in Minnesota, it's practically Canadian. You go the other direction into Ohio and Pennsylvania, it starts to shift into various versions of Midatlantic. The rs are different, as are the vowels, especially the o.
But forget that. I'm still mystified about the obsessive no accent posters on this thread. What's that about?
R135, I would say what you are hearing from those particular Californians is a level of stupidity, vapidness, and vacantness of mind that translates into what they say.
Perhaps the fact that dialects differ from region to region in the US is too difficult for you to grasp. I chose Wiki because it seems like it may appeal to your socioeconomic class (since you like to attach your ignorant beliefs to class structure, a probable mirror for you).
You don't have to dig much deeper for academic studies on US dialects on Google, if that is your wish; I would encourage you to do so.
Stupidity, vapidness, and vacantness of mind?
And here they would have us think that they were so intellectual and superior.
R141, give it up. You are too provincial to understand that the only reason you don't hear the accent is because you have heard it your whole life and it sounds normal to you. We get it. I don't hear the accent in my area of the country either, but I'm not stupid enough to claim there is no accent. I have to call Minneapolis frequently for work. The accent is like nails on a chalk board to me.
What the heck do ya meeean, R145?
Who may I tell Mr. Lundegaard is calling?
Um, darling, r145, I'm not the one claiming there is no accent, so I know you are not talking to me.
R145, I have lived in eight different states, so I have not heard Minneapolis people talking 'my whole life'.
What accent would you say President Obama has?
He has no accent. He speaks as a highly educated person with an american accent.
Depends upon who he's addressing, r149.
[quote]What accent would you say President Obama has?
LOL R150! is what I meant to post.
Who cares about all this accent business? Is it the same 2 people posting back and forth?
Also, R139 is a very wise person.
As a native Minnesotan, the no-accent troll is a true embarrassment.
You care far to much about pushing a particular view r155. The fact that you feel a need to label opposing views as trolling shows you have an agenda.
[quote]Who cares about all this accent business? Is it the same 2 people posting back and forth?
I'd say yes. I know what they mean about an accent, but I've been to the Twin Cities and never really noticed it. It's not dramatic like Southern or anything. You have to listen very closely I guess.
I'm a Minnesota native who lived out of state for eight years and returned in 2007.
Yes, you hear the accent. It's that much more obvious once you've moved away and come back. I hear it somewhere every day, whether it's at work or at a store or on the local TV news.
I've never met anyone who wants to deny the accent like the troll in this thread.
R158, do you live in Minneapolis? It doesn't sound like you do, since you just say generic 'Minnesota' as if all of Minnesota is the same when it is definitely not.
What we are talking about here is an accent in the city of Minneapolis, not in all of Minnesota. And there is no accent (or rarely) in Minneapolis.
R141, if one cannot tell where a person is from when that person speaks, then that person has no pronounced distinguishing accent.
Is this concept too difficult for you?
R159, I grew up in Apple Valley and now live in Bryn Mawr.
[quote] if one cannot tell where a person is from when that person speaks, then that person has no pronounced distinguishing accent.
Overcoming ignorance is a chore, and not the job of any person but his own.
Well then you have a whole lot to overcome, R162.
Where would you say President Obama is from?
One cannot tell where he is from because he does have have a distinguishing accent, and he is indicative of millions upon millions of other people living in the U.S.
sorry, 'because he does NOT have a dsitinguishing accent'
Are you high, r163?
No need to trip over yourself, everyone gets you, you idiot@r164.
R164, I can tell where you're from just from the way you type.
Where are the best bars?
It's a shame the no accent troll has ruined this thread so I'll try to help steer it back on topic.
I lived in the Twin Cities for 15 years - 7 as a renter in the Uptown neighborhood in Mpls and 8 years as a homeowner in St. Paul's Cretin-Durham Hall neighborhood. I eventually grew tired of the long cold winters and moved south several years ago, but I can honestly say I really enjoyed my time there and think the OP will, too.
I've always said what impresses me most about the Twin Cities is how livable the cities themselves are. Most major cities only have a handful of narrowly defined areas that are safe to live in, but the Twin Cities are full of charming, livable neighborhoods that make living in the city not only possible but desirable. Since NYC is also full of livable neighborhoods the OP might not appreciate it as much, but having grown up in Kansas City where urban blight made city dwelling impossible in all but a handful of areas, there's something unique about Mpls-St. Paul and its well kept neighborhoods.
The overall quality of life is another outstanding feature. Other posters have mentioned how clean the cities are, and it's true. There are lakes EVERYWHERE, and people take full advantage of them. When I lived in Uptown I went to Lake of the Isles-Lake Calhoun-Lake Harriet at least 2-3 times a week, and I wasn't even what you'd call an outdoor person! Perhaps it's the long winters that make people embrace the outdoors, but they do it in winter as well. They groom the neighborhood lakes for ice skating and even have warming houses to change and store your shoes. I think both cities spend a lot of money on their parks and take pride in the cities' overall appearance, and I have to say it always struck me as nice to actually see my tax dollars being put to good use.
The people are definitely nice, but I can't really say they're friendly. Scandinavian reserve is very evident, and while the "Minnesota Nice" label is somewhat of a myth (it's more akin to politeness), you can see where it comes from in the reserve that is such a big part of the Scandinavian culture. That reserve is also evident in their sense of humor, which has a sweet and gentle ring to it. That's one thing the OP will notice right away - accent or not - the people don't have an edge or hardness like they do in NYC. They are, as others have said, overwhelmingly educated and upwardly mobile. They're not overtly friendly but they're nice, and it made living in the Twin Cities incredibly easy.
Since the OP is coming from NYC it's hard to tout the arts by comparison, but the theatre scene is thriving. I had season tickets to the Guthrie Theatre and Minnesota Orchestra and enjoyed them both a great deal. I also liked sitting outside Orchestra Hall for dinner and outdoor concerts during the Aquatennial. Things like that are in abundance there - there is a high demand for the arts, cultural events and outdoor recreation, which contributes to the high quality of life I mentioned earlier.
I always made fun of the food, saying the state motto was "not too spicy now!" But the truth is there are a lot of good restaurants and there's no shortage on types of cuisine. The best restaurants take advantage of fresh Midwestern crops and the abundant seafood in the state's 10,000 lakes.
There is a big gay population and as others have said, it isn't confined to a gay ghetto but integrated into every neighborhood. There are prissy little bitches and petty, provincial queens, and while the gay population isn't quite as diverse as I would have liked, the OP shouldn't have any trouble finding a nice group of friends. He certainly won't find a shortage of good looking guys!
So that's what I took from my 15 years in Mpls-St. Paul. Livable cities, great quality of life, wonderful attention to parks and outdoor activities, thriving arts scene, and nice people. If it weren't for the brutal winters I would have happily lived the rest of my life there! I hope the OP has as many wonderful experiences as I did
I think they invented cheese.
You're gonna make it after all...
I'm stuck in the South at the moment and miss the Twin Cities terribly.
Like some said earlier, if you chose your residence carefully, it can make all the difference in dealing with winter. Many apts/condos have underground parking. Make sure to get that. If you buy a house, the shorter and flatter the driveway, the better.
I've lived all over the US and haven't found anywhere else with such a high percentage of reasonably well-educated AND nice people.
Summers last about five weeks.
See Airplane 1976...there you have it.
I have to laugh at da enraged Queen who gets so 'darn 'ticked, whenever any fella here over at da Datalounge-goes an' has'a suggestion that we...we gotta' accent? Oh hoo, boy 'yer darn skippy. I laugh at ya. 'Nyuck. 'Nyuck.
Bitterly cold from early November through March. Relatives there flee Mpls every January for Palm Springs or La Jolla, CA. Autumn starts early.
A lot of outsdoorsy stuff to do in spring and summer, so take advantage of the trails and lakes.
Minneapolis reminds me more of Toronto than Chicago, perhaps because both Minneapolis and Toronto are smart enough to have underground walkways and I found people in Minneapolis and Toronto to more honest in my dealings w/ them -- and I used to live in Chicago for 5 years.
I grew up ther from birth to 18, went to the south for college (UGA, I wanted to experience what life was like without cold winters and a different culture). I moved back after college for 3 years then headed to LA for a job and haven't left LA since (I'm hooked on the weather here).
The Twin Cities are clean, safe, affordable and have a nice art scene and social life. Lakes are everywhere so people make the most of them year round (boating on them, biking/jogging around them, in the winter ice fishing or skating on them).
In the warmer months I'd do 2 laps of rollerblading around Lake of the Isles as my morning workout (shut up!, it was the 90's and rollerblading was fun!). In the winters I'd throw my cross country skiis in the car and hit the closest golf course (which would have hills but was of course closed due to snow) and would ski around for and hour and get the best workout ever. Even if it was around zero outside, the XC skiing working kept you warm.
Thriving gay scene and very tolerant (for the most part, depends on the 'burn) populace. Part of "Minnesota Nice." Even if people don't agree with you they'll still be kind and civil to you. Those that do agree with you will embrace you. Unlike many other places in the US.
The Guthrie Theater, the Walker Arts Center, a good Museum of Art. And a thriving music scene since the denziens of the TC area appreciate the arts as a whole. I grew up there during the age of the Replacements, Husker Du, Soul Asylum, etc. And saw so many amazing bands come though there. It's a stop on any band's tour. And the Uptown Theater gets all first run art house movies so you won't be relegated to Hollywood crap.
Mpls/St. Paul is Chicago with all of Chicago's bullshit and on a smaller more hometown scale (most of my extended family are from Chicago and that place can be a total pit).
If you have a good opportunity, do it. It's a great place, four seasons (albeit winter is kind of long but you'll adapt) and the people are lovely.
Go for it OP.
R173 doesn't know what he's talking about and is clearly quite elderly.
An attractive city, overall.
Culturally very impressive with a wide range of galleries, museums and a very significant theater and music scene.
People are smart, easygoing.
Finding people to be close with can be challenging though. But when you make good friends, they tend to be very loyal.
If you are enjoy living without driving, adapting to any city where you need to drive daily is difficult.
Chicago is a much more glamorous city than Minneapolis. The city center is much more impressive than Minneapolis's, not surprising since it is a much bigger city and has some of the world's great architecture. Much of suburban Minneapolis, however, is beautifully tranquil where as much of Chicago's - apart from the extremely wealthy suburbs of the northshore - is not.
They did invent White Bread.
And Cream of Wheat.
And scotch tape.
I'm probably repeating some things here, but here's my take.
Summers are fun. Because outdoor activities are limited in the winter, Minnesotans love to make the most of the summer months. There are outdoor concerts and block parties and films all summer long. The Walker Art Center does a great movies/music series. There are lakes right in the middle of the metro, although the Mississippi isn't as developed as you would think.
It's a great place for bicycling, with excellent trails throughout the metro area. A few years ago, Minneapolis redesigned its downtown streets to make the more bike-friendly. I don't ride by bike to work, but I do use it often in the evenings and weekends.
True high-end, fine dining is rare, and usually overpriced for what it is compared to larger cities. Still, there are a lot of excellent places to eat. The NY Times just did a piece on Scandinavian dining in the Twin Cities and focused on my favorite restaurant, Bachelor Farmer (run by the governor's sons).
The MN Twins have a new outdoor stadium that's beautiful. I don't even like baseball, but I end up going at least five or six games a season now. Hockey is big here and the hockey arena in St. Paul is really nice, although I only go there for concerts.
The downside of summer is road construction. It's bad because you can do much construction in the winter, and winter is hard on the roads. They are also building a second light-rail line that connects Minneapolis and St Paul, and that has left portions along the way torn up for years now. Some of the best Asian dining in town is located on a street that's been under light-rail construction for at least three years now.
Living here is not for everyone, especially if you can't handle the winter. But there's a lot to like about it here too.
Virginia native who has lived in Mpls for 15 years now
Wonder if the recent posters realize that OP put up this thread last fall?
So OP ... still checking in? Did you move to Minneapolis?
Not to mention the Grand Rounds National Scenic Byway (in Chicago they call them boulevards).
Why does no one swim in the lakes in uptown? Are they polluted?
I don't think swimming is allowed.
It was originally called St Minerva.
But St Paul was mad because a girl saint was bigger in size.
Saints are all size queens.
So they took the number one product of the city, apples, and called it St Apple.
But there wasn't a St Apple. So they called it Apple Minvera.
This got shortened to Apple Minnie
And since the city was in America, or the US it was written on letters to the post office as
Apple Minnie Us
And soon it was called Appleminneus
Which is done so they switched it around and called it Minneappleus
Later the spelling was changed to make it Greek because the city went bankrupt and had to have St Paul bail it out twice.
They have good choirs.
I don't know much about Asia, OP, but make sure you get your passport renewed in time. Ou'd hate to book a ticket and then WHOOPSncan't get on the flight.
R179 don't forget about Cheerios!!
The TC is home to General Mills and Honeywell. Two big corporations so you have a decent intelligent workforce. And don't forget General Mills following the Chick Fil-A controversy came out saying they're proud to have a diverse workforce and support gay marriage.
The public schools are excellent overall compared to most states. At my high school in suburban Mpls we had University of Minnesota law professors adjunct teaching our AP polltical science clasees. This was the late 80's but education is very important to the populace of the area and I'd imagine it's still that way.
People do swim in the uptown lakes.
Here's a travelogue from Chevrolet in the 1950s.