She was supposed to be the pretty one. Why didn't she amount to more? Also, why did Jacqueline get the pretty name while she got the ugly monosyllabic androgynous name "Lee"? I know it's a family name, but still.
Sorry: Radziwill, not "Radziwell"
I've always wondered that myself, OP.
I love the name Lee.
She was given the name Caroline Lee Bouvier. Just as Jackie was given Jacqueline Lee Bouvier. I don't know why she was called Lee and not Jackie.
She married fairly well three times: a publishing heir, a Polish prince, and then finally a movie executive. But all three marriages ended in divorce.
She was an awesomely untalented actress. Jackie never forgave Truman Capote for pushing Lee's acting ambitions ahead and getting her the part of Tracy Lord in the Chicago production of "The Philadelphia Story" and then the title role in the TV production of "Laura"--Lee made a fool of herself and got horrible reviews. Of course Capote pushed her in the hops she'd be a huge success and that this would endear Jackie to him--he was always so gifted at doing exactly the wrong thing to piss off the very people he wanted to like him.
She was (is) also not nearly as bright as her sister, or charming or just about anything.
I pick my nose.
But Lee was prettier. Even Jackie herself admitted that.
They just did not get along. And at times, when I was with the both of them, it was very catty behavior.
Did Blackjack molest all of them? I never knew a woman who wasn't horribly abused who affected that voice.
Lee was the pretty one when they were kids and got the most attention because of that. Jackie was the mouse with the books who developed herself. Lee was very jealous about being so completely eclipsed by Jackie when they got older but she didn't have much to offer and her grabs at celebrity fell flat.
I've read that Ari and Lee were with each other somewhere (on his boat with other people maybe? I can't remember now) and Lee thought he was interested, but then Jackie showed up and Lee became invisible to Ari.
What the fuck was her husband "Prince" of anyway? Wasn't he Polish? When was the last King or Queen of Poland, and how exactly was he related to them?
[quote]I've read that Ari and Lee were with each other somewhere (on his boat with other people maybe? I can't remember now) and Lee thought he was interested, but then Jackie showed up and Lee became invisible to Ari.
Lee and Ari were having an affair. After Jackie gave birth to Patrick and he died two days later, Ari told Lee to invite Jackie onto his yacht to rest. During that trip Jackie and Ari started their affair.
I saw Lee fairly recently at a dinner party. She is charming, elegant, polite and gorgeous. She may have been lots of other not so nice things at times, but you aren't going to see a prettier, more charming woman her age in NYC.
She was younger, prettier, a princess, and an unabashed snob.
So much cooler than her phony bitch sister.
Replacement “housewives”, at “The Real Housewives of New York," will include someone a Bravo source says “will add quite a bit of much-needed real class to the show”: author and ex-ABC producer Carole Radziwill, the daughter-in-law of Jackie Kennedy Onassis’ sister, Lee Radziwill.
Carole’s late husband, Anthony Radziwill — thought to be John F. Kennedy Jr.’s favorite cousin — died of cancer only a month after JFK Jr.’s death in the plane crash that also claimed his wife Carolyn Bessette Kennedy — one of Carole Radziwill’s best friends.
What's wrong with the name Lee? .. There's Lee Grant, Lee Merriweather, Robert E. Lee, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Lee Overalls to mention a few.
that's a scary pic r19. talk about a giant head.. and who is the cross eyed woman?
I would take Lee over Jacqueline any day.
I mean, the name.
That's the lackey that carries her colostomy bag. She has to color coordinate it with Lee's outfits.
Don't forget Lee Remick.
Carole Radziwill seems like a bit of a famewhore. Her book wasn't badly written, but she seemed to be in love with Carolyn (or perhaps the myth of her). Now she's doing reality TV? How classy! Has anyone interacted with her?
[quote]That's the lackey that carries her colostomy bag. She has to color coordinate it with Lee's outfits.
People of Lee's class do not have lower GI functions.
"Lee Overalls to mention a few."
Don't forget Park Overall.
[quote]She had fucked up teeth.
The Bouvier teeth.
Lee was a palin and simple whore. Jackie was a smart, conniving coutisan. She only ducked for wealth. Lee was just pussy.
"What the fuck was her husband "Prince" of anyway? Wasn't he Polish? When was the last King or Queen of Poland, and how exactly was he related to them?"
R14, you are operating under two misconceptions.
The first is that the title "prince" necessarily conveys that one is related to the monarch of a nation.
The second is that someone with an inherited title necessarily enjoys the privileges and responsibilities that such a title would have once implied.
Carole Raziwell is a middle class social climber who despite being married to cancer-stricken Anthony, was never able to advance on the rungs of the social ladder.
Didn't Carole Radziwill write a book about how she was BFF with Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy?
Now she's on “Real Housewives of New York”
[quote]Lee was a palin and simple whore. Jackie was a smart, conniving coutisan. She only ducked for wealth. Lee was just pussy.
I never understood why it wasn't enough for her to be a beautiful socialite in New York or London. Why wasn't it enough just being beautiful and invited to nice parties and premieres?
Why did she need to become a famous actress, a famous interior decorator etc. etc. without any training for those occupations?
Just read Farley Granger's autobiography and had no idea Lee played 'Laura' in a tv remake of the old 40's film. IS this available anywhere?? It was apparent she could not act and David Susskind produced this, lauding it as emmy worthy. How can I be gay for 50 years and not have known about this???
Her last hubby was NOT a movie exec, it was Herb Ross the very gay, very closeted director.
Lee and Jackie had a mother who created a bit of a myth about their family history and Black Jack played along with it. One of the myths was that their mother was related to Robert E. Lee and that is why the name "Lee" pops up with that family sometimes.
Things like this are why Jackie had an almost instinctive sense of how to contend with things publicly after JFK was assassinated. She created her own myths no differently than her parents once did, but with far less lying.
Lee Radziwell once acted in a play with Erika Slezak (OLTL)
R25 So the "Grey Gardens" thing runs in the family?
R10, Lee, Jackie, and Little Edie Beale all spoke with that Long Island Lockjaw cum Miss Porter's finishing school accent.
I met her once, 20 or so years ago. She was quite gracious and charming, as mentioned upthread.
"Just read Farley Granger's autobiography and had no idea Lee played 'Laura' in a tv remake of the old 40's film. IS this available anywhere?? It was apparent she could not act and David Susskind produced this, lauding it as emmy worthy. How can I be gay for 50 years and not have known about this???"
I've been trying to find a recording of it for years, with no success. The rights must belong to the Susskind estate . . . though there is hope . . . it was screened at the Paley Center in California about a year ago.
Lee was always a. It of a loser who hasn't had a particularly happy life. She had already moved on to Onassis when Kennedy was elected. Bobby pulled a a lot of strings to get her first marriage to Michael Canfield (who she supposedly married because he's supposed to have been the illegitimate son of the Duke of Kent-the one that got killed in the war) annulled by the Pope, and he wanted to marriage to happen. She obliged Bobby bit stuck with Ari until Jackie took him away for her. Stash Radziwill had to give up his title when he became a citizen of the UK. They don't permit their citizens to have foreign titles. Lee insisted however that she was a Princess, and expected to be called Princess Lee, especially after Jackie became First Lady. At a Sate Di ner for the Kennedy's at Buckingham Palace, Jackie threatened to boycott if the Radzwills weren't put on the guest list. The Queen did so under protest, she disliked them. The Queen also had to agree to accord them semi royal honors and list them on the official guest list and Prince and Princess. Lee was a piece of work. Stash narrowly escaped going to jail for embezzling millions from the UK Red Cross. He was supposed to be this wheeler dealer real estate veloper, but just traveled on someone else' coat tails. He was already involved with his next wife when Bobby forced him to marry Lee a second time., in the church after her annulment,
Jackie left her nothing in her will . . . but did leave $$$ to Lee's son and daughter.
In a book written by one of JFK, Jr.'s longtime friends, he wrote of Jackie's wake, held in her 5th Avenue apartment.
Lee arrived late and acted rude and arrogant, showed no emotion and didn't stay long.
The Lee biography "In Her Sister's Shadow" is a fun read.
Lee had a hot fling with photographer Peter Beard, at his physical peak . . . lucky bitch.
Lee and Farley in a scene from the TV "Laura" - 1968
There's just something so fucked up about giving two daughters the same name, even a middle name. I love some of the comments above. The only nice things I have ever heard about Lee are written here. God bless.
[quote]Lee was always a. It of a loser who hasn't had a particularly happy life.
Ida Morgenstern: Here I am with my two girls, Rhoda Fay and Brenda Fay.
Brenda: If you liked the name Fay so much, why didn't you call one of us Fay?
Ida: I don't like it [bold]that[/bold] much.
Lee was a made-up surname, and Jackie and Lee's arriviste mother tired to pass herself off as a MD cousin to the VA Lees.
In fact, they were Jewish Levy's. Levy Radziwill has a much better ring to it.
I may not be remembering this correctly, but wasn't Susskind's version of Laura shown live on TV? That may be why there are few exisitng copies of the performance.
That and because it stank. I remember that part very well.
Useless old cunt. Total waste of flesh.
I hear that she is now bed-ridden and suffering from end-stage Alzheimer's per her blabber-mouthed daughter-in-law.
Has Tina put down the tub of ice cream long enough to help her much?
oh my god, Tina Radziwill, my head just exploded. where's william ivey long?
I heard Lee basically abandoned Tina because she was sooooo boring and Jackie was the one who paid for everything.
R49, "a bit of a loser..."
How difficult was that?
Kristin Davis should play her in a biopic.
In one of the many Jackie books I read long years ago, I remember Jackie never forgave Lee for sleeping with JFK! That's right. He fucked his sister-in-law. Early in the marriage.
Lee was indeed close to Ari Onassis, and was foolish enough to think he was smitten with her. But it was always Jackie he was after.
His passionate, volatile, decades long love affair with Maria Callas was going thru a typical rough patch and he was dabbling with Lee in hope of getting cloer to Jackie.
When she had the miscarriage it is true, he told Lee to invite her to cruise with them for a rest. Ari presented Jackie with some fantastic piece of jewelry at dinner, I think rubies or emeralds in a bracelet, Lee knew it was Jackie he wanted not her.
One JFK was assassinated, Jackie and Ari hooked up, and Jackie felt it was sweet, albeit short-lived revenge on Lee for fucking JFK.
Jackie wrote in her will that she had helped Lee many times thru out her life and therefore had not provided for her as part of the estate. She wanted no one to think it was an oversight. It was deliberate and she said as much.
She was appalled at how shallow, selfish, and self-absorbed Lee remained all her life, even at the expense of her own kids. People may feel a degree of ambivalence towards Jacqueline, but being a good mother was extremely important in her world.
[quote]Kristin Davis should play her in a biopic.
Kristin is too curvy. Lee is built like a concentration camp survivor.
Her gigantic head and tiny skinny body are both bizarre.
It's all chic and soigne until you hit the wrong pose and look like a character from Tod Browning's "Freaks."
"I may not be remembering this correctly, but wasn't Susskind's version of Laura shown live on TV? That may be why there are few exisitng copies of the performance."
No, it was definitely on videotape and with the recent screening at the Paley Center, my guess is that at least a bootleg recording will surface soon.
It aired once in 1968 . . . to great ratings and horrible reviews . . . Arlene Francis was cast in the Judith Anderson role . . . and she was quite good.
Actually, Jackie was behind Lee until she married JFK. During their late teens and early twenties, Lee was considered much prettier, she was more popular and outgoing, was an assistant to Diana Vreeland and, though younger, married earlier to the son of a very wealthy man.
Jackie was engaged to a working stock broker - though a member of her class. Suddenly, old Joe Kennedy decided Jack needed a wife and looked around at the currently available candidates and picked Jackie.
Jackie broke off her engagement and hooked up with Jack who was handsome, famous, a Senator and son of the 3rd richest man in America. For his part, Jack was curiously disengaged from the engagement; old Joe had to order the gifts Jack gave Jackie - like an expensive bracelet given for some reason or another.
After that out-of-blue coup, Lee never stood a chance in the sibling rivalry. I never understood why being a rich, beautiful socialite was not enough, either.
Every book on Jackie says the same thing. Lee wanted to be the one that was famous, and Jackie was the one that wanted to be left alone.
And the roles were reversed.
It's very simple. They were both geishas.
But Lee's selection of men didn't make her famous except amount the social circle where a Polish princely title still counts for something.
Amount to more?
She married well. Twice. She was a socialite.
Those were two of her ambitions. She succeeded.
Her third ambition was to act. Alas, she had no talent. Whatsoever.
Where there's a RadziWILL, there's a RadiziWAY.
I wish the TV movie she made back in the 50s was available - so I could see first hand how shitty she was as an actress.
[quote]She created her own myths no differently than her parents once did, but with far less lying.
[quote]I wish the TV movie she made back in the 50s was available - so I could see first hand how shitty she was as an actress.
Yeah, I'd like to see that. Did she have the same ridiculous voice as her sister?
Call me a loser, but Jackie died of cancer 17 years ago and I'm still alive and fabulous!
r14, don't "quote me" on this, but the last native Polish king was deposed when the last partition of Poland took place in 1795 between Austria, Prussia and Russia. I believe their surname was Poniatowski and the Diet actually selected many of Poland's monarchs in a more democratic fashion. Napoleon created a Dukedom out of Poland (Duchy of Warsaw) and eventually after the Congress of Vienna in 1815 the Russian Tsar took the title of King of Poland. In one of their numerous revolts/rebellions I think even that title was abolished or discarded and Poland became a mere province of Russia until 1918 when a modern republic was resurrected (also one of Woodrow Wilson's 14 Points to end World War I). Anyway, I am not sure how or if the Radziwills are somehow related to the Poniatowskis but I am fairly sure that titles on the continent are played with rather freely and loosely unlike, of course, the UK where they still have some semblance of tradition and function. I have read that if someone is a Prince or Princess in what are today republics such as Poland or Germany there is little or no official recognition although the title can be passed down from generation to generation. The last I heard too is that in Italy, which abolish monarchy and aristocracy shortly after World War II, a title can be bought for the right price and also can be passed down through the generations.
Rex Reed called Lee Radziwill the "Princess of Nothing". Also, the reason both Jacqueline Lee and Caroline Lee have the same middle names is because it was their mother's maiden name--Janet Lee. She married John Bouvier who was, of course, the father of Jackie and her princess sister and was also a "favorite" with "the boys in the band". Janet Lee eventually divorced Bouvier, probably partly because he liked sleeping with other men, and then married even wealthier Hugh D. Auchincloss who financed much of Jackie's extensive education (I think her degree is in Art History?? or French Literature??) at Vassar, the Sorbonne in Paris and Georgetown University in Washington. There was no love lost between Janet Lee Bouvier Auchincloss and John Fitzgerald Kennedy and he always referred to his mother-in-law as Mrs. Auchincloss. Jackie and Lee referred to their step-father Auchincloss as "Uncle Hughdie" for some reason.
She's that classy lady that no one's really sure where she's the princess of.
Some 20 years ago there was a Radziwill wedding and it was allowed to take place in a Polish Palace. Tina, Lee's daughter, took Wm Ivey Long and it was all I heard about for a year. It was fun for them to be pretend royalty for a day!!!
Who would have been their competition back in the day? Babe Paley, C.Z. Guest? The Bouvier girls never did it for me. They weren't beautiful, just pretty. Their pedigree is spotty not documented blue bloods like C.Z.
This may be the thread where I can finally ask:
How does one pronounce Auchincloss?
Did Lee fuck Rudolf Nureyev? She was so hot for him back then.
I'd say Lee did pretty well becoming a princess.
R14, R71, The Radziwills were originally a Lithuanian noble family ('Radvila' in Lithuanian) that rose to prominence in 15th century Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and later became active in the politics of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Kingdom of Prussia. They were bestowed the princely title by the Holy Roman Emperor for their military service. Whether or not these princes actually lorded over any significant piece of land is lost to history as many of these smaller duchies and principalities were sucked up by larger powers ages ago.
r76--OW-KIN-KLOSS, put a little bit of spit on the ch/k sound at the back of your tongue. There is some kind of connection between Gore Vidal and Jackie--either they are cousins somehow or rather Hugh D. Auchincloss was married before to one of the Gores??? help I'm drowning in a sea of complicated historical celebrity relationships.....
R72, they called him "Hughdie" because he was "Hugh D. Auchincloss."
I think Hugh Auchincloss was at onetime married to Gore's mother, Nina, so Gore was also a stepchild of the man.
Wait - so Lee's children were named "Tony" and "Tina" ??? As in "Tony & Tina's Wedding" ??
R76, it's pronounced AW-kin-kloss.
Little Edie: I was the golden girl! I should've become First lady, not you!
Jackie Ho: I wish it had been you, Edie.
[Quote]Did Lee fuck Rudolf Nureyev? She was so hot for him back then.
No, but I heard Bobby did.
OP, this is what Lee said about her name, "I was so sorry I'd never been called my Christian name, which was Caroline,but it was to please this rather unpleasant grandfather. It certainly was to no avail at all and I got lumbered with being called Lee, which was, you know, both our middle names."
Hughdie was Gore Vidal's stepfather first, then Hughdie divorced Gore's mother (the grounds were adultery - she was fucking Clark Gable) and married Jackie & Lee's mother.
So he was stepfather to Gore, Jackie & Lee.
Gore's memoirs have some great stories about all of them, as well as Jack Kennedy.
She was much prettier than Jackie. I have a feeling that she would be a perfect dinner companion. Edith Wharton would have seized upon her life as a subject for a novel.
I have never read a good thing about Lee and Jackie's mother, Janet Auchincloss. By all accounts she was a cold, imperious, first-class bitch.
R62 -- I'd read that Jackie's mother talked her out of the stockbroker engagement because he made a lot of money ($100K/yr) but lived on earned income. She pointed out that Jackie wouldn't last long on a pittance like that and needed someone who lived on the interest from a trust.
That's why Jackie moved to DC and pursued JFK; there was a short list of rich Catholic bachelors and he was near the top of the list.
Rumor has it the real Virginia Lees sent word to Mrs. Auchincloss that if she didn't stop telling people she was related to them they'd tell the truth -- that her father or grandfather's name was Levy, that he'd converted from Judaism to Catholicism. She shut up after that.
I waited on her about a year and a half ago at a private Park Ave. dinner party. She was a gorgeous 70 year old, with perfect manners, and a radiant smile. I was expecting a bitch, but she was warm and friendly to everyone.
She just goes to prove you can be too rich and too thin.
The Lee family's name was not originally Levy and they were not Jewish by ancestry. That's an old urban legend.
Yes, but Janet Auchincloss had made so many enemies on her own, and so many people hated the Kennedys, that an anti-Semitic rumor would have done some serious damage to the dynasty.
Gore Vidal wrote of Jackie's ancestors as Levy/Jewish French peasants.
Yes, there's no way Jackie and Lee come from true French aristocracy. No way. They've starved themselves to appear as though they have that certain inherited bone structure. That's really the true motive of why people starve themselves into thiness. To appear to have upper class genes that never worked the farms. The goal and obsession with being thin is to reproduce a look of fine breeding. Look at the wrists and ankles. A sign of good breeding lies in the circumference of these limbs. Go ahead, cry for those big bones peasants who spend their lives suffering to come across as more LADYlike.
Bottom line is, the smaller your bones the chances that you've inherited it from generations before you that used their talent and skill to make a living. Don't be fooled by FAS folks though. Their face always gives them away. Look up alcohol fetal syndrome to know the difference. Even if your parents were trashy, if you have fine bone structure, you're likely to have a number of aristocrats in your genealogy. Doesn't matter if your parents were dysfunctional drunks or not. Most royals have these bad boys in their families. You are so much more than your parents.
r100, that is ridiculous. I'm sure my peasant/farmer/coal mining/blue collar European ancestors with their small bones and short stature were in no way related to any royalty and never had much of an education or white collar employment.
How about poor nutrition, could that have something to do with small bone structure.
I'm amazed that she's still alive and in good health, and that Jackie didn't live longer.
Does she have any contact with her daughter Tina?
[quote]She was much prettier than Jackie. I have a feeling that she would be a perfect dinner companion.
??? Because she was pretty and wealthy?
[quote]Gore Vidal wrote of Jackie's ancestors as Levy/Jewish French peasants.
But Gore Vidal was full of shit. Remember a few years back when he didn't like the authorized biography that Fred Kaplan wrote about him? he went around telling everyone the only reason he authorized it was because he had somehow mixed up Fred Kaplan with the famous biographer Justin Kaplan, which was complete bullshit. Everyone knew that at the time and completely called him out on it in the press, but he still stuck to his story because he was so vain. He would say [italic]anything[/italic] to make himself look superior to other people, and that would include lying about his fancy-pants Bouvier/Lee relations-through-marriage.
In the annals of infamous courtesans, Lee Radziwell is to Mary Boleyn as Jacqueline is to Anne Boleyn. There's a huge difference between merely enjoying the spoils of "whore" and being alluring enough to become some wealthy slob's "whore" trophy.
Fabulous recent pic of 81 year-old Lee. They just don't make high-society bitches like this anymore.
[quote]Herb Ross the very gay, very closeted director.
Is that why Nora Kaye died in 1987?
[quote]She was supposed to be the pretty one. Why didn't she amount to more?
So she was cute, so she should have been the wife or concubine of someone more important, and that is "amounting to more"?
Lee shouldn't have amounted to any more than one of the Kardashian clan, she had no talent of any kind.
R100 needs to pull the Almanac de Gotha out of their arse and ditch the bong.
I've met several aristocrats including Polish and none of them are fine boned. Indeed, in their cheap black leather skirts, and dinosaur builds, the two Polish and German countesses of my acquaintenance look like they just schlepped from servicing clients in their S&M dungeons. Which they may have.
Of the Radizwells, surely the DL favourite would be Prince Constantin Radizwell, who bedecked each of his dazzling footmen with a pearl necklace.
Could anything be prettier than a pearl choker on the firm thick neck of a handsome young footman?
The Radziwill family were the richest aristocrats in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which for four hundred years was combined with Poland in Europe's largest state. Their main family seats were in what is today Belarus.
At one time the Radziwills were the largest landowners in Belarus and owned something on the order of 100,000 serfs (slaves).
They had something like 23 castles.
I want to know more about Black Jack. Any book recommendations?
[quote]I'm amazed that she's still alive and in good health, and that Jackie didn't live longer.
And Lee still smokes, too! It is weird.
R108, she looks like the original bobble head.
R117, she didn't use that black coal tar hair dye either on top of smoking.
I love the name Lee as we'll R3 but I prefer a Lee Majors any day.
I don't think the person upthread reporting that Lee is ill is correct. I feel like I just saw her at a Broadway show and she looked marvelous. Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think she has a warm relationship with Jackie; you barely ever see Caroline and Lee and one would think with how little maternal family Carolyn has that they'd be seen together more.
Her daughter-in-law is a famewhore.
Little Edie, Jackie and Lee at Big Edie's funeral.
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