What''s the difference between a $500 GE and a $2000 Miele? \
I worry that the $500 one is crap but the Miele seems too much. \
Then there''s Bosch. I''d like to spend less than a thousand.
Don''t buy a FisherPaykel double drawer, that''s for sure. Ridiculous to load.
learned the hard way.
I have a Miele, the over $2k one you''re talking about.\
Miele - virtually no noise, you can get an awesome fix everything warranty on it, Stainless steel on the inside, nothing wrong with it after a year, express cycle rocks, less $$$ on energy costs...what''s there not to like?\
I had a crappy GE and Whirlpool in my apt - LOUD, shitty, doesn''t clean, broke down yearly.\
My home came with a GE, it was horrific. I replaced it almost immediately even though we were broke. WORTH EVERY PENNY!
has clean dishes and no noise, is my energy bill skyhigh
Have a GE and no issues in 10 years.
I like a noisy dishwasher. It gives me a feeling of accomplishment when I turn it on.%0D\
However, I have a cheap dishwasher, a GE, that is so ineffective I have to wash most of my dishes by hand first or run it through two cycles.%0D\
My cheap partner bought it without consulting me. He who never does housework.%0D\
Anyway, I made sure I bought the new stove and dishwasher. Paid a lot of money for them and I lovingly polish them everyday.
Don''t buy General Electric anything.\
GE used to make good appliances before Jack Welch let the accountants run the business. ("We have to make the quarterly numbers!")\
The GE appliance division has been for sale for over a year now and even the Chinese, Indians, and Koreans don''t want it. Tell you anything?\
Upper end Whirlpool, Frigidaire, or Sears Kenmore will quietly provide relatively trouble-free service for a reasonable number of years. Cost of acquisition, parts, and repairs are much more reasonable than some of the European models.\
My mother''s Bosch is a piece of crap--cost more than our whirlpool and has far, far fewer functions (no drier or preheater). It cost more, too. The only benefit is that it is much quieter (which is not an issue for me--I just turn it on when I am leaving the house or have the maids use it).
Did I mention it cost more and was crappy?
I have a Fridgidaire which has worked without a single problem for 5 years - and I run it almost every day. %0D\
[quote]just turn it on when I am leaving the house or have the maids use it%0D\
My partner won''t allow me to turn the dishwasher on on the way out of the house for fear of fire. Seriously. We don''t have a domestic staff so we have to run it when we''re home.
Who would want a silent dishwasher?\
The white noise provided by a dishwasher during a wash cycle at night is one of my favorite small pleasures.
Open plan living means there is more need for quiet dishwashers.
I bought the apartment fridge from Big Chill and have been praying for the death of my Kenmore (cleans dishes just fine, but very loud and cheap looking) dishwasher for the last four years.\
The guts are Whirlpool.
I agree with R11.%0D\
And I don''t suggest starting your dishwasher and leaving. Our neighbors house caught on fire and my bf and I tried to save their house and pets and couldn''t. I''m still traumatized.
GE SUCKS when it comes to dishwashers. I have a GE fridge that''s good after 6 years...the last one lasted 20.
I think I paid 800 bucks for my Kitchenaid. Stainless Steel interior. Not very loud, but, not silent either. I usually start it with the time after I go to bed, and I never hear it though. I had one issue with it over 5 years, and that, they fixed under warranty. I''d buy another one.
I have a GE Nautilus in my rental which was new when I moved in 8 years ago. One dial, two buttons and never a problem, although it is rather loud.
I got a Kenmore Elite Ultrawash HE last year, OP. Very silent, lots of cycles, including a smartwash. I''d highly recommend it. I got it on sale, with 12 months free financing. I just divided my payment by 12 and avoided any extra charges.\
Check the sears.com website. They also have other brands, OP.
R14, wish you were my neighbor. You''re great.
I live in a loft and find the Miele to be well worth the cost - basically I live in my kitchen! Anything else is compromise.
R18, I just got that one, too and finally used it. I''ve only used it once on eco cycle. \
The only problem I have is that I keep forgetting to lock it (when not in use) and I''m always bumping into and it goes on.
Westinghouse is best.
I use a little Mexican woman. She''s really quiet unless I beat her ass.
r3 here. I''m really addicted to appliances, I even post at gardenweb so naturally I came back to this thread in my TW.\
Bosch - at gardenweb several said there''s a weird "fish smell" from the dw even if they did not cook fish.\
GE - the worst along with WP (whirlpool) (or as I call it, LOUDPOOL). They are LOUD LOUD LOUD, think of an airplane, they are SUPER LOUD you can''t talk on the phone if you buy them.\
Miele - the best, the quietest, we bought the highest end one and are super happy about it. My partner''s parents live in the UK they''ve had their dw for 10+ years, no problems with it. They also have a Miele w and d - 25+ years and have never had to call out for service with it.\
I will never buy a GE/Whirlpool, even if I had to live in the hood. It''s just not worth it...what IS worth it is having something that needs zero servicing - like Miele and lasts...like Miele.
The Miele clothes washers are amazing - they''re double hulled to prevent damaging leaks. There is a float between the two hulls and if it triggers (i.e. a leak from the center cavity) it immediately activates pumps to empty the washing drum. There is now need for a "Panic Pan" to protect your floor or lower level inhabitants.
I don''t put dishes in with lots of food adhering to them, and don''t expect the dishwasher to function as a garbage disposal or a pot scrubber. I also use the air-dry function, which preserves the heat unit. %0D\
I''ve had 2 Whirlpools in the 23 years I''ve lived in this house. No problems. They''re not the quietest machines but they do the job just fine.
r26 - are you rinsing your dishes before you put them in?\
I put mine in no matter what unless it really has tons of food on it, and it''s quiet quiet quiet.\
r25 - ja ist besser! Plus it''s not a publicly owned company, it''s a private one that goes for quality over quantity and it''s made in Germany, not the cheap shit made in Korea/Taiwan/China like everything else. Yuck, hate shit made in those countries. They''re AWFUL and have no lasting value.
I''d never spend over a thou for a DW.\
R8 YES! Bosch is a piece of expenive garbage. Shitty thing did not clean well at all and we frequently had to re-wash dishes by hand. We replaced it with a Kenmore and the Kenmore is excellent! Quiet and cleans great.%0D\
Expensive DOESN''T always mean better.
What about Kitchen Aid? Aren''t they supposed to have great dishwashers?
Don''t buy Miele. The family were Nazi sympathizers and notorious anti-Semites
Have a Kenmore Elite. Bought it over 5 years ago for under $1,000 (on sale). Good reviews from Consumer Reports. Would highly recommend.
Same here, R32.\
On sale, my Kenmore Elite (really a high end Whirlpool) was about $750 and cleans like a champ. \
Stainless steel tub. Electronic controls, many cycles. Has a built-in soft food disposer so you don''t have to scrape dishes except for bones.\
I have never owned such a quiet dishwasher.\
And if it breaks beyond repair, I''ll go get another one and still be ahead of the game over $$ Miele $$.
r29 & r33 - Kenmore is Whirlpool shit. Look it up.
r31 - I'm Jewish and own a BMW, and love Miele. I'm also pro-Israel. One has nothing to do with the other. I am fully aware of BMW's relationship to Hitler too, ie BMW was Magda Goebbel's older surviving son & his father. He saved BMW after ww2 from going under.
All German products "cooperated". KRUPS, BMW, Miele, Soehnle, Hugo Boss, VW (*ahem* how ironic it became a symbol of "freedom" & "hippies" when it was the original "people's car" for Hitler), Mercedes, Pfaff, heck even the German candy companies were all turned into the German war machine.
The basic thing is that German products are fantastic. USA products USED TO be great too - Maytag for instance. Now it's a crap brand mostly made in China/Taiwan/Korea.
There are STILL great USA brands - SubZero, Blue Star Ovens, All Clad, I don't know of any others at the moment, but when I find some more that are great like that I'll add it in.
So back to the OP, yes I love my Miele dishwasher, zero problems in the time I've owned it and it's quiet, probably the quietest on the market according to the surveys.
All Clad is great - but many of their ''non-critical'' components are made in China - i.e. lids, utensils and measuring cups.
Let us know what you decide to do.\
Will you spend the big bux for a glamour dishwasher like the Miele, or will you go for a more utilitarian model?
I have had a GE for six years now, without any problem. It is louder than a Bosch or Miele, for instance, but not bothersomely so (certainly not as loud as some I have had that sounded like small boat motors.) For me, noise is less an issue because the kitchen is stuck away at the back of my house, but for an open-plan home I''d shell out for something whisper quiet.
"Who would want a silent dishwasher?"%0D\
ME. My neighbors like to run their LOUD dishwasher at 1:00AM which sucks.
Agree with most everyone - Don''t buy GE it is shit. They''re very loud and don''t do a great job. I have one at the moment and am less than inpressed. \
R2 is wrong. Go with Fisher and Paykel. By far the best most efficient machine out there. Especially the dish drawer models. How the fuck can you not load it, dummy? Lol. I have lived in 2 other houses that have them, and as far as doing the job they are meant to do, they can''t be beat. Plus they look great :) Something modern and different.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Good to hear. I''m going to check out PC Richards & Home Depot and then look at Consumer Reports.\
I think anything will be better than my 17 year old GE dishwasher. Very loud, very slow and basically I have to wash the dishes before I load the DW.
wash by hand.
I have the Bosch model base on the CR recommendation. We got it at Lowes on sale, definitely check around on prices. It''s fine, but yes you do have to pre-rinse a bit. We only run our dishwasher a couple times a week, so I wouldn''t want a lot of food sitting in their anyway. %0D\
My mom has a F&P, it seems fine, but again she also pre-rinses. The silverware tray is odd, but fine I suppose. I think she got it because it''s the cabinet front and blends in with her very small kitchen.
Yikes, should be "based on" and "sitting in there". I just get so excited talking about appliances my fingers can''t type properly.
I have a 14-year-old Whirlpool -- Sounds like a freight train, cleans the dishes great, never a breakdown.
I bought my GE 11 years ago. I''d get another one.
The GE dishwasher you own, R45, probably is a good one.\
My parent''s Hotpoint fridge (made by GE) lasted 32 years. \
That was then, this is now.\
Beware: the quality of GE appliances has plummeted in the intervening 11 years. \
Their business model, courtesy of former CEO Jack Welch, is "build it cheaply, get it in the home at a competitive price, then screw ''em on the parts."\
Like McDonald''s is really in the real estate business, GE Appliances is really in the parts business. As an aside, Lennox HVAC has a similar business model.\
Buy another at your own risk, or at the least research thoroughly before you do. \
I''d hate to have you buy another GE appliance out of misplaced brand loyalty.
You have two hands, use them. A little Fairy never hurts.
We had a Thermador top of the line dishwasher - we have a friend in the business who gave us a deaL, otherwise we never would have gone high end. Worst dishwasher we ever had. Absolute garbage. \
As a matter of fact, every appliance he sold us - all Thermador - sucked. Even the ones that didn''t require major repairs never worked quite right. \
We have a GE Monogram now. Excellent cleaning, and very quiet.\
And the best dishwashers I EVER had were all Hotpoint, though that was years ago.\
So another voice in the chorus saying that high end and expensive doesn''t always guarantee quality.
The people telling you to wash by hand live in overpriced tiny apartments that don''t, and couldn''t, have a dishwasher. They barely have room for a hotplate.
So no one has a Kitchen Aid?
Check out the first article.\
BTW, this site has saved me a buncha money over the years.\
If you''re even halfway handy, you can fix a lot of stuff yourself. \
He tells you how in simple, easy-to-understand language.\
All he wants is a little beer money if you successfully fix your appliance using his site, a little money from your avoided repair charges.
Not a popularly mentioned brand here, OP, but after our shitty Bosch gave up the ghost after two years and one month of lousy dishwashing, we went down to Sears and bought a Samsung that was on sale for a little under $500. \
It does a great job washing the dishes, has a well-laid out interior that holds many more dishes and gets the clean than the Bosch did, and has these pleasant blue LED controls that play a little chime to notify you when the cycle has ended. It also normally exists in a powered off mode, which saves electricity. It also has a pause cycle button on it, unlike the Bosch, which would inevitably spray hot(well,semi-hot, the Bosch never really got hot) water right in your face if you had to open the dishwasher during the cycle. \
I couldn''t be more pleased with it. Fuck GE/Whirlpool and the rest of the war machine.
"" Fuck GE/Whirlpool and the rest of the war machine. ""\
Whirlpool is not owned by GE and to my knowledge is not considered a part of the military-industrial complex as General Electric is considered to be.
R34, you''re an idiot. Who cares what one website says if everyone you talked to with a Kenmore elite says it is quiet and works very well.
save yourself big $$$
r51, I bow and curtsey in your honor for posting that site. Awesome. My 30+ year old dw is a Hotpoint, but it is unlikely manufactured with the same quality or the same country today. My Whirlpool Neptune w/d are solid, efficient, and reliable, but my Whirlpool fridge had to be repaired annually, until it was finally replaced by the warranty company with a Hotpoint, which makes the most unusual noises after only one year. Friends and family with Bosch or Asko dishwashers say they are just horribly unreliable and expensive. I splurged for a small Miele vacuum cleaner and it is the best, quietest thing I''ve ever owned. Even the cats don''t mind it! But I''d rater take an overseas vacation than spend $2000+ on a Miele dw.
Glad you like that link, R55.\
I hope you spent some time poking around to get a feel for how to use the valuable information presented and bookmarked the site for when the time comes when you attempt your first repair.\
How can everybody hate Bosches? I just bought one based on numerous online recommendations! So far, it cleans great and is very quiet. No problems at all. It''s a pleasure after the 25 year old GE.
All dishwashers SUCK now that they''ve eliminated phosphates.
Your spotted glassware
r58 - my Miele doesn''t give me spotted glassware and I don''t use phosphates.
I would not spend more than $500-600 on a dishwasher. It''s a utilitarian appliance that really doesn''t need to be "high end." %0D\
You buy one now that lasts eight to twelve years, a whole new set of innovations will be available when you buy the next one. %0D
I had a GE that was virtually silent for years and recently replaced it because I had Ikea redo my kitchen and if I wanted a dishwasher panel, which I did, I had to buy their dishwasher. It cost $400 more than my GE and isn''t as good.
No one has mentioned them, but avoid LG dishwashers at all costs. Shitty cleaning, cheap parts, faux stainless.
Maytag is very reliable.
Very interesting article about appliance manufacturers from Consumers Reports -- "Who Makes What?"\
" Whirlpool makes appliances for Ikea, Sears Kenmore, and side-by-side built-in refrigerators for Thermador. "
Im a general contractor/ home builder. We have bought a lot of appliances over the years and the general rule for GE is, don't buy anything of theirs that holds water. They are loud and you will need too almost wash the dishes before you put them in because they will come out dirty if you don't. For a resonable price and does a great job, Frigidaire (I own one at my second home). Kitchen-aide is good (I own one at my primary)and I think the Frigidaire does a better job for 1/3 the price. Fisher & Paykel are expensive and have maintenance issues. Never has been a great product.
Loud vs. quiet is not so much about the brand but where the motor is located. Dishwashers with a motor towards the front are louder and generally lower priced. If the motor is further to the back it will cost a little more and might have a few extra features.
FWIW, I also had a Bosch and it was a lemon. I had it uninstalled after a week and replaced it with a GE model.
I had a GE and replaced it after 6 yrs. with a Kitchen Aid. I have a Bosch in my weekend home and do not like it as much as the KA. Bosch does not dry plastic well. I cant run the Bosch when i am leaving for the week because when I get back and open the door 5 days later the plastic items are still wet.
The Kitchen Aid is the best dishwasher I have ever owned.
[quote]wash by hand.
The KitchenAid stainless required repair out of the box and then died the month after its warranty expired.
I replaced it with a cheap Whirlpool just to fill the space.
For the last two years, I've done dishes by hand. Between hard water and soap reformulations, my glassware comes out of the machine looking like a cat licked it clean. I've tried adding TSP (as one poster suggested) as well different additives sold in stores. No luck.
Are there any dishwashers out there that have a cool horizontal cutlery rack like the Mieles?
My appliance repair guy said Mieles are a nightmare to repair and expensive but I like that damn tray.
I've had Kenmore that started life as a portable and was then built in... noisy as a steam train but the damn thing just won't die. However, when the day comes...
I would NEVER buy another GE appliance. We bought a house in 2005 with GE Monogram kitchen appliances that were installed the year before we purchased the house. We have had significant repair bills, even with warranty work, on every single appliance. Our refrigerator is the worst. Two different repairs (parts covered - not labor) required a moving company (an additional $300) to pull out and put the fridge on its side so the GE techs could work on it (another $950!) We have repaired gaskets twice on the freezer drawer and it still leaks - dripping water on the floor below and letting frost build up on food in the freezer.
We also own a property management company with 13 rental homes. Within a few years, we have repaired (or replaced) every singe GE appliance we purchased for the house. Stick to mid- or high-end Kenmore and Whirlpool because even though you pay a little more up front - you save on repairs and problems later!
We had a Bosch dishwasher which just died. We really liked it - used almost daily as we cook everyday. We just bought new Bosch this week. It is super quiet and stainless steel inside. The new one has a large handle that makes the door frame stronger than using the in-door grip handle hole. Sears sold us their highest end Bosch for about $1000.00
"Kenmore is Whirlpool shit. Look it up."
Depends--some appliances are made by others, such as LG.
The name is immaterial--go with what works based on your price range. Kenmores are routinely highly regarded by Consumer Reports (as is Bosch & Miele)
There is at least one Miele model that sells around OP's $1000 price point, if Miele is your desired brand.
They've just spiked the import tariffs on appliances, so if you're looking for a foreign made unit, you better hurry:
Siding with Whirlpool Corp., whose Marion plant is the largest employer in Marion County, the International Trade Commission on Wednesday slapped tariffs on clothes washers imported from South Korea and Mexico.
Samsung, LG, Daewoo and Electrolux have been stealing customers by selling appliances at unfair prices in the U.S., the trade commission ruled.
The companies finance the practice, known as dumping, by drawing high profits in their own countries, Whirlpool Corp. Vice President Jeffrey Noel has said.
South Korea aided the practice by offering subsidies, the commission ruled.
The tariffs are tailored to offset the unfair pricing. For South Korean imports, a 151 percent tariff will be charged on Daewoo clothes washers; LG washers, 13 percent; and Samsung, 11 percent. For Mexican imports, a 72 percent tariff will be charged on Samsung washers, and 36 percent on Electrolux.
“The actions taken today by the U.S. government represent a great victory for the U.S. appliance industry, especially for our employees and consumers,” said Marc Bitzer, president of Whirlpool North America. “We invest in U.S. manufacturing because we believe in our 22,000 U.S. employees and the innovative products we produce.”