Secret Nazi Codes Litter Germany, Letters, Numbers Signal Support
Swastikas may be outlawed in Germany, but that doesn't mean that neo-Nazi signs have disappeared. Coded letters, numbers, and other symbols communicate support of the extremist philosophy among those "in the know" in German society, reports Der Spiegel. The numbers 14 and 88, for example, which can be seen on placards waved at soccer games, indicate neo-Nazi support, according to a brochure on the complex code that's revealing a growing political movement.
Some 150 different neo-Nazi codes currently exist in German society, according to the brochure, titled Hide and Seek and written by expert Michael Weiss. HH stands for "Heil Hitler," which is also banned in Germany, and the number 14 refers to the 14 words of American white separatist David Lane when he said: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." The codes are found on license plates, at athletic events, and on tattoos. Some 195 extremist groups with 26,000 members exist in Germany, but sympathizers can also be found in many other more mainstream factions of German life, according to Der Spiegel.
Glad to see this made public; number one, to make visible what these people are doing and number two, so innocent folks don''t accidentally use those numbers or symbols in a way that might be misunderstood.
Must be all the Muslims in Germany that''s getting them all riled up again.
Like the emergency flasher knob on every VW ever made:\
(that ticking noise is your car saying Heil-Hit-Ler, Heil-Hit-Ler, over and over and over until the urge to murder Jews over powers you.)
This is the problem with banning shit like that. It just makes it that much more powerful.
I am burning my piano as I type.%0D\
I just counted, and it has 88 keys. Worse yet, it''s a Bosendorfer and only lets me play Wagner.%0D\
Compared to the racism and homophobia rampant today in the USA, bigotry in Germany is comparatively non-existent.
I would cheerfully trade a few John 3:16 signs for 14''s and 88''s at American sporting events.
Racists are such sad, angry and pathetic people. Most of them appear to be stupid, ugly, lazy, fat people in dead-end jobs who won''t take responsibilty for their pathetic existence and instead blame their problems on others.
[quote]Compared to the racism and homophobia rampant today in the USA, bigotry in Germany is comparatively non-existent.\
Now that''s a crock of shit if I ever heard one. Your statement -- just the fact that would even say such a ridiculous thing -- shows that you are either ignorant about the nature of the German public, or else you have an agenda.\
The Germans are notoriously conformist and one of the nasty byproducts of that is rampant racism. It''s been suppressed because they were forced to suppress it.\
The question people always ask about how a culture as evolved and modern as that of interwar Germany could have devolved into the barbarism of Nazism is answered by understanding the very nature of what it means to be German in the first place. They were receptive to racist fascism because they are wired for it.
r10, are you from Germany, and if not, how long have you lived there?\
[italic]They were receptive to racist fascism because they are wired for it.[/italic]\
You are seriously a moronic weirdo. \
It''s YOU with the agenda, dear.
"Swastikas may be outlawed in Germany"\
Isn''t that against free speech? And what happens when they want to portray them in World War II films?
R2, they don''t even allow the sale of model airplane kits with swastika decals, and on ebay they don''t allow any Nazi images at all. Even on a book or in a vintage photograph the swastika needs to be covered or blurred.\
They do take it seriously.
There are FAR MORE hate groups in the USA, than in Germany.
Hitler would love Germany now. They''re truly a Fascist country. No country should put such ridiculous limits on speech. By doing so, you''re practicing Fascism, thus, it''s Hitler''s Germany sans the camps. It''s appalling that if one were to deny the Holocaust, one would be jailed. Give me a break. \
As a previous poster pointed out: "This is the problem with banning shit like that. It just makes it that much more powerful", which is exactly the case.
Sorry, R11, but my opinion about the nature of the German public is well aligned with countless historians and social scientists, both within and without Germany.
I don't have an agenda. I have studied the causes and effects of Hitlerism a great deal, and what I have is a considered opinion, in light of the evidence, as to why Germans allowed such monstrous events to occur under their own noses.
[quote]In consequence of the scale of the devastation wrought on Europe by Nazi Germany, the Sonderweg theory of German history has progressively gained a following inside and outside of Germany, especially since the late 1960s. In particular, its proponents argue that the way Germany developed over the centuries virtually ensured the evolution of a social and political order along the lines of Nazi Germany. In their view, German mentalities, the structure of society, and institutional developments followed a different course in comparison with the other nations of the West, which had a "normal" development of their histories.
r7, hate is hate. I don''t really think there''s a point or need to rank, compare or measure hate.
In other words, R10 has not lived in Germany, but he, nevertheless, condemns the whole present nation based on what he read about its past.
R2 is correct. the KKK was broken up in the 50''s when the writers for superman comics wrote all of their secret codes into the strip, thus making it no longer secret.
It''s the Prussian School System that makes people crave strong leadership. It was designed to make people loyal to the king. It also killed logic and critical thinking. It made people accept Nazism. \
In America it''s used to get people all pumped and patriotic. Teachers use humiliation to keep students in line and later these same people fear humiliation when they question the government.
I don''t have to be an NFL player to be able to say with assurance that the 1976 Buccaneers sucked. So why do I need to live in Germany before I''m allowed to make up my mind about the nature of its populace?\
There is plenty of information available, both empirical and otherwise, from which a person can form a perfectly legitimate point of view about the German people. I''m sorry that you don''t approve of mine.\
Actually, no I''m not.
[quote]By doing so, you''re practicing Fascism, thus, it''s Hitler''s Germany sans the camps. It''s appalling that if one were to deny the Holocaust, one would be jailed. Give me a break.\
Defending racists'' right to mock the victims of industrial genocide. Now THAT''S an agenda.
and guess who? click troll-dar to find out.
[quote]later these same people fear humiliation when they question the government.\
Are you posting from the 1950s?
r16, the events that happened in Germany in the early 20th century could happen anywhere. That was the moral! That lesson was completely lost on you. You think these people are space aliens, beings removed from you and I, something must be wrong in their DNA that enabled them to allow this to happen. Not so.
If you have a country in financial ruin, people are starving, morale is in the shitter, and you're fucking pissed, any mad man can come along and offer you a ridiculous scapegoat, and most will go along with it. It's very "Charles Manson". Hitler was not a murderer. That's what is so damn frightening about him. He got people to do his bidding. This can happen in America, in the Britain, anywhere! Look at the Red Scare of the 1950s! Something like that would seem unconscionable to happen in a Western society, let alone the United States, but it happened, along with slavery, and million other atrocities.
Hopefully, others are not like you, and have learned from the Hitler story, and know what to look for when certain events hit. The Right in America, if they had their way, would be setting up camps right now for Arab Americans, and would be investigating un-American activities in the country, something that has been put forward by Presidential candidate, Michelle Bachmann, and has been implemented by IRA supporter, Peter King.
You really are a dimwit.
[italic]I don''t have to be an NFL player to be able to say with assurance that the 1976 Buccaneers sucked. So why do I need to live in Germany before I''m allowed to make up my mind about the nature of its populace?[/italic]\
Oh, dear god.
[italic]Defending racists'' right to mock the victims of industrial genocide. Now THAT''S an agenda.[/italic]\
I defend the Westboro nuts, the KKK, and Neo-Nazis to march down Washington. Get over yourself, victim. People have the right to hold whatever belief they want. Period.
[quote]Hitler was not a murderer. That''s what is so damn frightening about him. \
I stopped reading here. What idiot denies that Hitler was a murderer?\
Go right on misapplying the "lessons of history." I only engage in debate with people who are able to interpret history through a factual lens.
[quote][R16], the events that happened in Germany in the early 20th century could happen anywhere. That was the moral!\
R25, did you even look at r16''s link? \
(I''m not saying that I necessarily agree with him; it''s one of the great historical debates - certainly not as cut and dried as either of you make it out to be.)
You seem to be without any sort of moral center or consistency, R25 = R26 = R27.\
On the one hand, you appeal to our humanist impulses in warning against tyrannical racism, which can take root anywhere. You even going so far as to caution us against repeating an ''atrocity'' like the Red Scare. If the Red Scare was an atrocity (which it wasn''t, but that''s hardly my point), then it was a rhetorical atrocity. Furthermore, its basis was political prejudice, not racist prejudice, which is the topic we are discussing here.\
And yet, despite your call to vigilance against the slippery slope of racial tyranny, two posts later, you''re defend the rights of the Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK, and the Neo Nazis.\
You''re clearly confusing yourself. I encourage you to actually be sure that you have a fully formed opinion the next time you decide to hold forth on a complex topic such as the matter at hand.
Of course R25 didn''t look at my link. Troll dar his simple ass and you will clearly see that he is not interested in substance or truth. Only reaction.
Well, I''ve lived in Germany and agree with R10. Fortunately, they are so socially coddled like the rest of Euroland, they''re harmless. And I''m sick to death hearing that the US is racist add homophobic. Has ther ever been a country this diverse and free, and improving in that regard every day, witness New York, in the history of the world?
[italic]I stopped reading here. What idiot denies that Hitler was a murderer?[/italic]\
Hitler was NOT a murderer. I know your pea brain can''t comprehend that.
[italic]You seem to be without any sort of moral center or consistency, [R25] = [R26] = [R27].
On the one hand, you appeal to our humanist impulses in warning against tyrannical racism, which can take root anywhere. You even going so far as to caution us against repeating an 'atrocity' like the Red Scare. If the Red Scare was an atrocity (which it wasn't, but that's hardly my point), then it was a rhetorical atrocity. Furthermore, its basis was political prejudice, not racist prejudice, which is the topic we are discussing here.
And yet, despite your call to vigilance against the slippery slope of racial tyranny, two posts later, you're defend the rights of the Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK, and the Neo Nazis.
You're clearly confusing yourself. I encourage you to actually be sure that you have a fully formed opinion the next time you decide to hold forth on a complex topic such as the matter at hand.[/italic]
You seriously have the mental faculties of a child. The fact that you can't comprehend any of this, is quite alarming.
I'm not even going to bother, since so many have already called you out for the dumbass you are.
[italic][R25], did you even look at [R16]''s link? [/italic]\
Yes, and it proves absolutely nothing. This poster''s analysis of the German people today is appalling. Step foot in Germany, then open your trap.
[quote]I''m not even going to bother, since so many have already called you out for the dumbass you are.\
''So many'' meaning whom, precisely? Yourself, party of one?\
Meanwhile, congratulations on losing on your shit during a normal, ordinary conversation.\
It''s pretty clear who won this debate.
"Hitler was not a murderer! Neither was Charlie Manson!"
It''s okay as long as it''s not you right, R8?
I used to lunch with a bunch of people that I worked with. One was the office manager who was from Germany. One day, with two black women at the table, she said something that shocked all of us. %0D\
Someone was talking about a black German friend, born in Germany, of parents born in Germany. The office manager cut in and said if the person was black, he was NOT German because Germans were white. Someone asked what nationality he would be and she just shrugged her shoulders. Sounds pretty racist to me. German is not an ethnic group.
R32: idealistic ignorance.Diversity is slowly killing this nation''s white population. Thank goodness China continues to flourish.
[quote]he office manager cut in and said if the person was black, he was NOT German because Germans were white. Someone asked what nationality he would be and she just shrugged her shoulders. Sounds pretty racist to me. German is not an ethnic group.\
Tell that to the Irish. I''m not defending it, but most countries do identify based on ethnic as well as cultural backgrounds. We''re a country made up of immigrants so we dont have that unifying thread. Maybe that''s why we''re so wrapped up in our flag and the other trappings of nationalism.
r16, wikipedia is not a valid source or worthwhile reading.
Then navigate your peabrain on over to some of the primary sources attached to the Wikipedia article, dum dum.
Care to comment on any of the first hand knowledge about the notorious racism of Germans that seems to be slipping through the cracks and onto the pages of this thread?
Israel must be planning to attack the Greece-to-Gaza flotilla with extreme prejudice.\
Every time Israel is about to commit some fresh atrocity the US media supplies us with breaking news about German Nazis.\
You''ll know the flotilla is doomed when we get an update on Anne Frank.
As long as Germany still treats Gays a second class citizen, they deserve this bad rep.
Yes much of the US still treat gays as second class citizens too, but the US never orchestrated the mass murder of gays and Jews, so the demands for Germany are rightfully higher.
r21, there is and was no "Prussian school system" at work in Germany of 2012. Or 1982. Or 1962.
If 'logical and critical thinking' had been killed in Germany, it wouldn't have the most powerful Green party on the planet, would it?
It wouldn't have an out vice chancellor, the second most powerful politician in the coutry - married to a man! Where is the gay Vice President in the US, married to a man?
Any thread on Germany truly brings out the crazies, like nothing else does.
Crazies, listen up: if any nation is heading towards fascism, it's the USA.
Germany is a sound democracy, with peace loving people who have learnt from their nation's past.
The same cannot be said of at least 48 % of Americans, who exhibit the very characteristics of German fascism c. 1933.
Need for strong leadership = hello, supporters of GWB and Romney !
r47, Germany has done more for her gay citizens than the US has done for gay Americans.
Also, we don't have Matthew Shepard incidents in Germany. None!
No Westboro nutters, no presidential candidates like Romney questioning gay visitation rights in hospital, and on and on.
Gay Germans can live a peaceful life, and most of Germany favors gay marriage - the fact that the conservative party hasn't implemented it (yet) speaks volumes about them, but almost nothing about Germany as a whole.