A poster on the "Poppy Bush" thread asked me to start a new thread about the CIA links between the JFK murder, Bush 1&2, Clinton and Obama.
Just to deflect any trolls from calling me a "Freeper" and accusing me of slandering the Dems, do not forget- Bush Sr was the director of the CIA, and was chosen for Reagan (against his better judgment) as Veep. It was "choose Bush as VP, or else"!
Let's focus on the current administration and work our way back.
There is substantial circumstantial evidence that Obama's mother, grandmother, father, and stepfather were all CIA operatives. Since the CIA never comments on current or former agents, and is highly secretive about everything, confirming the evidence is a futile exercise.
His mother, Ann Dunham, worked for several CIA front companies. His bio-dad worked for a CIA funded anti-commie group that trained Africans to fight the USSR. His stepdad, Lolo, was an operative in Indonesia, and helped stage a coup of the president. His grandmother, Madelyn, worked for a CIA controlled bank in Hawaii that laundered money for the CIA. His mom and dad met in a Russian language course...run by the CIA.
All of these assertions can be confirmed with a quick Google search.
Free country? Only if you're a complacent, ignorant tool.
do not forget- Bush Sr was the director of the CIA, and was chosen for Reagan (against his better judgment) as Veep. It was "choose Bush as VP, or else"!\
"chosen" by whom? Or else what? And you know this... because...\
[quote]There is substantial circumstantial evidence that Obama''s mother, grandmother, father, and stepfather were all CIA operatives. Since the CIA never comments on current or former agents, and is highly secretive about everything, confirming the evidence is a futile exercise.\
So.... you know this, how, exactly? How did you manage to overcome the futility? Circumstantial evidence, even if it really exists, is a long, long way from proof.\
So, how did Obama''s mother go from on CIA operative husband to another? Was it another case of being "chosen" and "or else"?\
[quote]All of these assertions can be confirmed with a quick Google search.\
Oh! Google!! If it''s on the internet, it MUST be true!!\
But, wait, isn''t Google a CIA front????
Ha ha ha
I don''t know anything about Obama''s parents and the CIA but I do think it is telling that he was a virtual unknown to a huge percentage of the American public in 2003 and rose to such prominence as to become president within a scant five years. I think it is similarly telling that when McCain beat him in the 2000 NH primary George W. Bush confidently proclaimed that it didn''t matter, he would be the nominee anyway. Bush when from unemployed until age 40 to governor then president with chilling swiftness. \
Someone online claimed he''d been told by a political insider way back in the 80s to take note of Barack Obama, that that young man would be president one day as if the chosen status already had been confirmed.
Obama went to the Bilderberg conference when he was a Senator, which makes me think he was pre-selected to be President.
Damn, right when I''m out of tinfoil...
R3 might be correct but the CIA doesn''t run the Bilderberg conference. The Illuminati does.\
If anything, they run the CIA too.
The CIA serves the interests of Wall Street Banks. It used to be the Marines who did the operations overtly but the American people and Marines like Smedley Butler didn''t like that shit so now you''ve got the CIA doing it covertly. They run America just like they run other countries in the world. Thanks OP, you finally answered my question "Where the fuck did this guy come from?"
I guess Romney has CIA connections too.
POTUS Romney 2013-2021
Wall Street runs our govt. The CIA works for Wall Street. %0D\
The Bilderbergers run the world. US armed forces work for the Bilderbergs.%0D\
See also the "Club of Rome".
[quote]Club of Rome: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill..." The First Global Revolution, Club of Rome, an elite think-tank (David Rockefeller, Gorbachev, etc.) working with the UN.%0D\
[quote] Alexander King & Bertrand Schneider, The First Global Revolution (New York: Pantheon Books, 1991), 115. %0D
"Someone online claimed he''d been told by a political insider way back in the 80s to take note of Barack Obama, that that young man would be president one day as if the chosen status already had been confirmed."\
I remember reading that on one of the conspiracy theory threads about a year ago. Is that you, Many Mansions/CSM?\
I recall reading about George H.W. Bush that if in any other nation a former head of the secret services had become president, it would be considered a cause for alarm. \
And George W. Bush wasn''t unemployed. He "ran" the Texas Rangers and an oil company (wink, wink).
OP, your statement re: Bush''s selection as Reagan''s 1980 running mate is ahistorical. Reagan was all set to nominate Gerald Ford - OMG, he was a member of the Warren Commission -until he realized at the 11th hour that Ford was looking to be a co-president. When the Ford boomlet thusly collapsed at the convention, Reagan, with no time to spare, turned to Bush, who had finished second in the primary, in an effort to unite the conservative and moderate wings of the party (Bush was considered a moderate then).
No, the military is. And has for the past 50 years.
No, the voters are. They want all their entitlement programs untouched, while wanting to keep their taxes as low as possible. Their elected officials have diligently served their constituents. And so explains where we are.
If voting made any difference, they wouldn''t let us do it.
R13, no voters are in charge of anything. If you lived in Egypt a few thousand years ago, you''d''ve believed that the Pharaoh was a god. If you''d lived in the Dark Ages, you''d believe the king was appointed by God and now you believe that you pushing a button every few years makes you some sort of god. Sorry.
The conspiracy theories about Bush being a Reptilian/human hybrid are more credible!\
And to Obama being picked. Yeah, a half African would have been a great choice for President given the racism back then. what a crock of bull.
How come people like Mark Twain are never in charge?
R1, it is a well known fact that RR and Poppy hated each other. Numerous books about the 1980 election have pointed out the improbability of the selection of Poppy as veep. RR knew how to play the game, and he knew Poppy''s CIA connections made him dangerous. \
As for the Obama history, if only one or two easily discredited websites exposed the various CIA connections, I would agree, but the sheer weight of the evidence of CIA involvement in their actions over the decades, including Obama''s various foreign trips as a student, means only a true partisan could discount the overwhelming evidence. \
R16, while racism is still alive and well in the US, it is a very fringe group. If Ron Paul was a black Muslim lesbian in a wheelchair it wouldn''t matter since the message, not the messenger, is what matters.
The CIA runs many countries. The CIA or our military industrial complex, runs our country, there is no doubt. %0D\
What would it take for people to wakeup to this fact?
Nothing, not a goddamn thing R19. To admit this to yourself means you have to do something about it and what the fuck can you do about it? Nothing, not a goddamn thing.
It is obvious that Obama was pre-selected and yes, I voted for him but I''ve lived a long life and it has become increasingly clear that we do not live in a democracy. Our country is run by the military and the Corporations who benefit from the military. You can be sure that our CIA has pretty much had a hand in every little war in the world, for the last 60 years. Our corporations have to sell arms and if there is no war, we will start one.
[quote]Is the CIA running our government?\
Hell yes, Dick Cheney made sure of that.
We live in the country President Eisenhower warned us about on his way out the door.
[quote]The CIA runs many countries. The CIA or our military industrial complex, runs our country, there is no doubt.\
Well, somebody needs to do it.
Poppy Bush apparently heads up Slytherin if we''re to believe the other thread.
R25. It''s interesting that the reptile thread showed up right after a lengthy one on the Bush involvement in JFK''s murder. A classic well poisoning technique.
It''s like working at Jabot Cosmetics, r2!
R2, I know I''m just another anonymous voice on the Internet, but I read that same thing before he got elected.
Good catch, R26. Making your enemy look "extreme" and "fringe" is classic- look at the coverage Ron Paul got in 2008. \
Fortunately, the arguments and predictions he made then are coming true. It makes it harder to dismiss him as a "kook" or "conspiracy theorist" when everything he said then has proven to be 100% correct.
To be frank, I have been predicting what is happening now....since 1980. It was easy to see what would happen when you decided to deregulate everything and give greed a free ride. It doesn''t take a genius...or maybe it does? Anyway, we have not seen the worse, unless we get to die soon.
Y''all a bunch of paranoid fucks.
Your a little slow OP. The answear is YES! As far as the rest of you morons it''s been going on LONG before G.W.B.
Here is an excellent article, well worth a few minutes of your time. \
"While we were not watching, conspiracy theory has undergone Orwellian redefinition.\
A %E2%80%9Cconspiracy theory%E2%80%9D no longer means an event explained by a conspiracy. Instead, it now means any explanation, or even a fact, that is out of step with the government%E2%80%99s explanation and that of its media pimps. \
For example, online news broadcasts of RT have been equated with conspiracy theories by the New York Times simply because RT reports news and opinions that the New York Times does not report and the US government does not endorse.\
In other words, as truth becomes uncomfortable for government and its Ministry of Propaganda, truth is redefined as conspiracy theory, by which is meant an absurd and laughable explanation that we should ignore. . . "
I know, we are laughable if we don''t all follow along, like sheep.
R33, that''s a brilliant post. I''m going to start a new thread with it.
By William Blum at Boiling Frogs:
In his autobiography, Dreams From My Fathers, Barack Obama writes of taking a job at some point after graduating from Columbia University in 1983. He describes his employer as “a consulting house to multinational corporations” in New York City, and his functions as a “research assistant” and “financial writer”.
Oddly, Obama doesn’t mention the name of his employer. However, a New York Times story of October 30, 2007 identifies the company as Business International Corporation. Equally odd is that the Times did not remind its readers that the newspaper itself had disclosed in 1977 that Business International had provided cover for four CIA employees in various countries between 1955 and 1960.10
The British journal, Lobster — which, despite its incongruous name, is a venerable international publication on intelligence matters — has reported that Business International was active in the 1980s promoting the candidacy of Washington-favored candidates in Australia and Fiji.11 In 1987, the CIA overthrew the Fiji government after but one month in office because of its policy of maintaining the island as a nuclear-free zone, meaning that American nuclear-powered or nuclear-weapons-carrying ships could not make port calls.12After the Fiji coup, the candidate supported by Business International, who was much more amenable to Washington’s nuclear desires, was reinstated to power — R.S.K. Mara was Prime Minister or President of Fiji from 1970 to 2000, except for the one-month break in 1987.
In his book, not only doesn’t Obama mention his employer’s name; he fails to say exactly when he worked there, or why he left the job. There may well be no significance to these omissions, but inasmuch as Business International has a long association with the world of intelligence, covert actions, and attempts to penetrate the radical left — including Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)13 — it’s reasonable to wonder if the inscrutable Mr. Obama is concealing something about his own association with this world.
Adding to the wonder is the fact that his mother, Ann Dunham, had been associated during the 1970s and 80s — as employee, consultant, grantee, or student — with at least five organizations with intimate CIA connections during the Cold War: The Ford Foundation, Agency for International Development (AID), the Asia Foundation, Development Alternatives, Inc., and the East-West Center of Hawaii.14 Much of this time she worked as an anthropologist in Indonesia and Hawaii, being in good position to gather intelligence about local communities.
As one example of the CIA connections of these organizations, consider the disclosure by John Gilligan, Director of AID during the Carter administration (1977-81). “At one time, many AID field offices were infiltrated from top to bottom with CIA people. The idea was to plant operatives in every kind of activity we had overseas, government, volunteer, religious, every kind.”15 And Development Alternatives, Inc. is the organization for whom Alan Gross was working when arrested in Cuba and charged with being part of the ongoing American operation to destabilize the Cuban government.
And don't forget that Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's father is/was likely high level CIA and was the senior supervisor of Obama's mother, when she was living in Indonesia.
I have already pointed out the curious fact that President Obama's mother and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner worked together in Asia, with Geithner's father being Obama's mother's boss.
The Immerwahr essay sheds more light on why this Obama's mother-Geithner's father connection is important relative to understanding the power elite---and perhaps how Obama really got to be president.
Here are the key excerpts from Immerwahr's essay:
An intriguing explanation of how the US Government, politically hamstrung at home, could act with force and purpose abroad is contained in Inderjeet Parmar’s excellent Foundations of the American Century. Throughout the 20th century, Parmar argues, the weak state was supplemented by private foundations, which took on many of the functions of government. Unelected, unaccountable, and for the most part unchecked, these foundations channeled billions of dollars into positioning the United States as a world power. Immune to the vicissitudes of democratic politics, they functioned as a shadow government, implementing the goals of what C. Wright Mills called the “power elite,” the men of affairs who moved easily from corporate boardrooms to high-ranking government office, often in or around the State Department.
These men had money, often more of it than they knew how to spend. The endowments of the big three foundations—Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Ford—were drawn from the immense profits of the oil, steel, and auto industries. In part, the founding of these philanthropic institutions was a public relations strategy. John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie, still the first and second wealthiest men in history, had both been targeted by the press after turning armed strikebreakers on their employees. Henry Ford, the seventh richest, at first was hailed as a new kind of industrialist, deriving his profits from technical and sociological innovation rather than from naked power grabs. But after his men opened fire on a march of laid-off workers at River Rouge in 1932, killing five and seriously injuring nineteen, Ford, too, found himself the object of public scorn. (The “despot of Dearborn” is what Edmund Wilson called him, and that same year Aldous Huxley envisioned a dystopian society run on Fordist principles in Brave New World). Four years later, Ford established his own foundation, to which he and his son, Edsel, bequeathed 90 percent of the Ford Motor Company’s stock. After Ford’s death in 1947, nearly all of the profits of his firm, one of the world’s largest, went to the Ford Foundation. The result was a form of public expenditure for which there was no public oversight.
The money itself, though substantial, never threatened to surpass the size of the federal budget. What was important was how it was spent. The trustees of the large foundations comprised a cozy group of men—well-heeled, white, and Protestant—who were raised in the same milieu, attended the same colleges (over half graduated from Harvard, Princeton, or Yale), and belonged to the same social clubs. Such men could not help but share a worldview, and for most of 20th century there was no one in the room to argue the other side. Internally united and externally unimpeded, they acted with a speed and resolve that was impossible for elected politicians. While government officials mired themselves in political debates, foundation leaders acted: they commissioned research, trained students, launched pilot projects, cultivated allies among foreign governments, and built networks of experts. By the time the government overcame its inertia on an issue, it found a smooth and well-marked trail stretching ahead through the wilderness.
At this point I halt the excerpt to point out that Geithner's father was in charge of microfinance for all of Asia for the Ford Foundation.
The President's mother launched microfinance in Indonesia---This resulted in Giethner's father overseeing the work of Ann Durnham, the President's mother. Back to the excerpts:
Parmar’s most disturbing revelation concerns the Ford Foundation’s work in Indonesia. In the 1960s, while Ford’s leaders were laying the groundwork for the War on Poverty in the United States and funding the development of Sesame Street, they were also bankrolling a network of social scientists and economists around the University of Indonesia who would, with Ford’s approval, participate in the campaign to oust Indonesia’s elected but left-leaning President Sukarno. Concerned that Sukarno was too accommodating of Communism, Ford’s experts came to the aid of his rival, General Suharto, who gradually took control of the government over the course of three years, starting in 1965. Suharto would go on to rule the country in a corrupt, autocratic manner for over three decades, but the greatest tragedy of his rule came in the period of his ascent, when his supporters slaughtered some half a million alleged communists.
Students at the University of Indonesia, Ford’s main recipient, played a leading role in the bloodshed and used the university’s campus as their base. Top Ford officials were aware of the massacre, but they reopened their Indonesia office (it had closed briefly during Sukarno’s presidency, in the face of Communist “agitation”) and sent more funds, even as many of their experts entered the ranks of the Suharto regime. In one exchange of letters, the foundation’s representative in Indonesia reported both the scale of the massacre and the role played by University of Indonesia students in it to Ford’s president, but celebrated the country’s “atmosphere of sustained holiday-spirit and exhilaration” and opined that Indonesia had never known such freedom. “I’m enjoying the trip. Hope all’s well in New York,” the representative signed off. Ford’s president at the time was McGeorge Bundy, who had come to the post directly after serving as National Security Adviser to Johnson and Kennedy and had been a chief architect of the Vietnam War. There is no evidence that he or any of the other officials at Ford were troubled by the reports from Indonesia.
Ford’s willingness to support dictators as long as they were anti-Communist was not unique to philanthropic foundations—it was a fault to which the entire US foreign policy apparatus was prone. But while the government supplied military assistance, the foundations built networks of experts, the “right” kind of experts who would work with the “right” kind of government
Note the use of foundation tied "experts" to work with the "right" type of governments. Note also that the mass killer General Suharto gradually took control of the government over the course of three years, starting in 1965. Dunham moved with her six-year-old son, Obama, to Jakarta, Indonesia in October 1967. From 1968 to 1972, Dunham was a co-founder and active member of the Ganesha Volunteers (Indonesian Heritage Society) at the National Museum in Jakarta--most likely an organization funded by US power elite foundation money. She then moved on to the microfinance work.
Bottom line: This Immerwahr essay advances understanding of the curious life of President Obama's mother, beyond her working for Tim Geithner's father, and helping us understand what was going on Indonesia at the time she was in the country and the influences of US power elites, while she was there and apparently in the middle of things. A time when the power elite were putting in place their experts, thorough their foundations, to overthrow one Indonesian leader and replace him with the mass murderer General Suharto.
And so, it becomes more and more difficult to believe that the President was not born into a snake pit of eltist plotters that have lifted him to his position as President.
I love R33
Wouldn't it be fun if this were true, and Obama's parents, instead of being radicals, were true patriots bravely working under cover to protect the Republic and spread democracy around the globe?
Wouldn't that make freeper heads explode?
In case someone missed the superb article, “Why Americans Must End America’s Self-Generating Wars,” by the incomparable Peter Dale Scott, here it is once again. Dr. Scott is simply amazing. For decades his indefatigable commitments to truth and justice have guided his path-breaking research in critical areas of “Deep Politics” where few historians and investigative journalists dare to follow. For several years I have actively commended his body of work to LRC readers, in particular his magnum opus, American War Machine: Deep Politics, the CIA Global Drug Connection, and the Road to Afghanistan. His impassioned clarion call for a new principled antiwar movement “should appeal to a broad spectrum of the American electorate, from the viewers of Democracy Now on the left to the libertarian followers of Murray Rothbard, Ron Paul, and Lew Rockwell on the right.” Indeed.
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I want to know where these birthers think his missing years are at. He WORKED FOR THE CIA, Cunts!
Obama was selected sometime before 1983, probably by Armand Hammer.
No one runs for higher office in either party without being selected/vetted by TPTB.
Clinton was the exception, in that he started his political rise as a paid government informant; he didn't have any Alphabet agency connections by birth.
Later on, as Arkansas governor, he let the CIA use the state for a Contra training ground site, and to offload cocaine shipments.
Many politicians of that era got their start by informing on liberal/left wing orgs for personal gain.
There are some people who believe that is how he and others got out of Vietnam. It was partially their connections, but the quid pro quo was that they would work for the CIA domestically as informants or for front companies.
So, if Obama was chosen back in the 80's to be President and, thus far, there's been no mention of Romney CIA connections it can therefore be assumed this election is for nothing as Obama will win again?
Why even have a 2 party system if a small group of people are running the whole deal? Is it for their amusement that they watch people struggle and fight each other every 4 years?
[quote]Why even have a 2 party system if a small group of people are running the whole deal? Is it for their amusement that they watch people struggle and fight each other every 4 years?
You have to give the illusion.
When instant cake mixes first went on sale they failed miserably. Housewives wouldn't use them.
Market research discovered that the problem was that the housewife didn't feel like she was really baking when all she had to do was add a cup of water to a box of cake mix.
They removed the powdered egg, and the powdered milk, and instead of adding water, she had to add a real egg and a cup of milk.
Sales skyrocketed. Same concept as voting--they have to have the illusion of actually doing something meaningful.
In the absence of evidence, saying that Obama's mother worked for the CIA because she was in Indonesia at the same time the CIA was working in Indonesia is illogical.
The early Geithner connection is interesting.
WE run the show, plebes.
So much fantasy fiction on this thread.
The CIA is a fluff research organization - for Hollywood now. The NSA, which is several times bigger than the CIA, used to do the dirty work, but because of accountability risks, they formed a private company called SAIC, in San Diego. Staffed with ex-NSAs and placed government people, they also have offices globally to keep (intimidate) foreign nations cooperative. SAIC does the USAs dirty work without risk of accountability. Its budget is over $10B a year.
The President is a token figure, National elections are for PR only. The Corporations run America. The Military protects Corporate profits. Countries who kiss Americas ass (primarily England but also Italy, Canada, Japan, Australia etc) get thrown a bone every once in a while. It is that simple.
All the dirty work that was done to undermine democracy in the USA, a large bureaucracy, is found in the files of NATO in Brussels, far from the prying eyes of Americans.
But that era ended with 9.11. They are so bold now they fear nothing and are almost operating without concealment.
Who/what do you mean by 'they', r51?
How does the Skull 'n Bones society fit into all of this? GWB senior and junior (and quite a few others) of that society were POTUS.
Is Skull and Bones part of the Illuminati or something else?
[quote[The CIA is a fluff research organization - for Hollywood now.
Yes, but "CIA" is just shorthand, because you have to call it something.
The fact is that if you make a Venn Diagram of the CIA, Goldman Sachs, Harvard, Yale, Skull and Bones, The Mayflower Society, or the names in the Mayflower Madam's black book--you pick whatever groups spin your wheel--the fact is that it all boils down to a shadowy ruling class of old money and connections, and right there at the center of your venn diagram is the small group that really runs the show.
Even with all his money Mitt Romney is still an outsider. Fuck Bain Capital, let's look at Bain Capital's clients. All Mitt did was make them money, that means he was still hired help.
[quote]Is Skull and Bones part of the Illuminati or something else?
From my reading about them, they sounded sort of like Scientologist, who get your secrets via e-meter (lie detector) whereas in Skull and Bones, part of the deal is laying in a coffin while you recite your sexual history/preferences.
Romney has extensive ties to the CIA as well.
My own inquiry began with Vanity Fair's revelatory piece, which notes that early Bain investors included publishing magnate Robert Maxwell -- whose Mossad ties have been established beyond the point of reasonable debate -- and the Poma family of El Salvador, one of the "14 families" supported by the CIA during that nation's civil war.
Most responses to the VF piece focused on Romney's penchant for hiding taxable income in offshore accounts. That's important, but I'm more interested in the Central American connection.
In 2007, Romney gave a speech filled with his usual blather: "Jimmy Carter told us that our problems were the fault of the American people..." (No he didn't. No politician would ever say that. Romney must think his listeners are rubes.) Toward the end of the speech, the Mittster listed the guys who helped to get Bain Capital going:
My partners were Ricardo Poma, Miguel Duenas, Pancho Soler, Frank Kardonski, and Diego Ribandinarea.
We have already discussed Poma. He was one of the founders of the fascist ARENA party of Roberto D'Aubuisson -- a party that ran the death squads which ruthlessly murdered anyone who challenged the oligarchy's control. The CIA aided -- arguably controlled -- the death squads.
Miguel Duenas hailed from another of the 14 families; in fact, the Duenas clan may have been the worst thing ever to happen to El Salvador. It turns out that Miguel Duenas -- I presume that we're dealing with the same fellow -- ran the Banco Commericial of El Savador, which determined which farmers would and would not get credit. A nice little arrangement, this was; the Duenas family used it to control a massive share of the country's cotton and coffee production. In a country where small farmers had once been allowed to own and work their own land, the Duenas clan expropriated their fields and reduced the farmers to near-slavery. The National Guard kept the serfs in line.
One of the most interesting names on our list is the late Frank Kardonski. Born in Panama, he created the Panaminian Stock Exchange, owned Tower Bank, and did much to promote Panama as a place of foreign investment. Of course, during this period (the 1980s), Panama became a haven for anyone hoping to launder drug loot.
So much of this is specious--"substantial circumstantial evidence", really??? I can think of other reasons that he moved up quickly to the nomination and election. One is luck and luck does exist. Second, Obama is very competitive and knew how to deal with opponents. What the dems saw in the Senate was someone who had never lost an election. He hadn't run often, but he managed to vanquish the opposition every time. Third, there were a group of white men (and some women)who hated the Clintons. They resented Hillary's victory in New York (twice) and resented Bill's willingness to sacrifice them individually at times to achieve an aim. They saw a way to stick it to the Clintons and could not line up fast enough. And, frankly, Bush was so busted at that point that Lassie could have run against the republicans and won. Which is why, fifth, with very little chance of loss, it was the opportunity to have a historic election, which would put a Black man in the white house. All those things combined to make Obama president. Oh, and as far as rigged elections, conventional wisdom on the subject says you can rig at the margins, i.e. change close calls, but you can't rig a landslide. Plus, then repubs could take the Bush failure and try to paste it on the next term dem president.
As far as governance, he's a separation-of- powers President. He is not about making laws, which he sees as the purview of the Congress. He has done what he thinks is necessary with his agencies. He has granted oil drilling permits, while pushing to explore alternative energy. He's had an active justice department that isn't there to grind an axe. He's gotten two reasonable Supreme Court justices put in place and he didn't back down from the fight on them. I think he's a moderate but I don't think he's being run by the CIA. I think he does what he considers to be his job and lets the other branches do theirs.
[quote]Second, Obama is very competitive and knew how to deal with opponents. What the dems saw in the Senate was someone who had never lost an election.
Just for the record, Bobby Rush kicked his ass. Got twice the votes Obama got in the 2000 race for the Illinois First.
OP = Richard Belzer, who sees conspiracies in everything.
You don't come close to power without the ones holding that very power allowing you to come close. When you are useful they might humor you until you are no longer useful, but they will never share their power.
The likes of Romney, Obama, and Karl Rove are at best employees.
OK, R59, but he remained an Illinois state senator from 1997-2004, at which time he was elected to the US senate. My point was that he was very attractive to the democratic party for a variety of reasons. I don't buy that a conspiracy elected him to the presidency.
No argument, R62. I heard from a friend who is wired into Chicago politics that this Obama fellow was one to watch when he was running for state senator. They've been grooming him forever.
I just think it's funny Bobby Rush had other plans.
What's interesting is that if the Star Trek woman hadn't come out with that sex club scandal stuff, Ryan would almost certainly have beaten Obama. Where would his career be then?
I don't think Obama was supposed to do much more than get his name out there in 2008. I think he was supposed to be the man in 2016, just like GW Bush wasn't supposed to win in 2000 and screw Jeb's shot in 2004 or 08.
It's not a perfect science.
I think I'd like to read the Poppy Bush thread referenced here. Does anyone have it saved? Or has it fallen off the thread list? Thanks
I Googled "Immerwahr" and got nowhere. Need more info, please.
I would say, the CIA, Generals and our Industrial Military Complex, runs our country. The constant push for nationalism should give the American people a clue but we are too damn dumb to know what is going on. Yes, Clinton and Obama, bought and paid for...just like the rest of our leaders. The 99%, have NO power and their vote means nothing.
I believe that the Bush clan was all set to name Sadaam as the guy who caused 9/11 but someone stepped up with other informaion about Bin Laaden. It didn't matter, the American people were so ignorant, they didn't even know the difference. So, 100 thousand innocent Iraqi's killed for something our own CIA did. You tell me...why does the rest of the world let us get away with everything?
R70 the rest of the world can't resist our military might.
Even if every American knew what's really happening, we are powerless to change anything since our votes mean nothing.
Our votes are )almost) meaningless because our choices are meaningless.
We get all worked up about Romney vs. Obama, but if we're honest, most of what we do is no different than Yankees fans hating the Red Sox or Chicago Bear fans hating the Green Bay Packers. Both Obama and Romney have far more in common than we care to admit. They're smart enough not to give us a real choice.
The real power brokers don't care, because they can work with either one. In 2012, The President's powers are basically like the Queen of England's--mostly ceremonial and a distraction for the masses. Anything important happens behind the scenes and is handled by a bureaucracy that never changes regardless of who is in power.
You think Obama killed Bin Laden? The shadows decided it was time, so they told Obama he could do it and finally presented a plan to get it done. You think Obama has left Guantanamo open? The shadows told him it was impossible to close it and never gave him a plan.
Without the shadows walking into the Oval Office and giving the President (whoever he or she is) a list of options, the President is nothing but a figurehead, the Colonel Sanders of The United States of America, and the list options is carefully drafted to ensure that which ever one of them the President picks matters not one damn bit in the long run.
R72, most people here are so enthralled by their masters in DC that video irrefutably proving Obama (or Romney, or Clinton) killed Elvis, Kennedy and Jayne Mansfield wouldn't dissuade them from their worship at his altar.
They will be the ones shocked- SHOCKED- when martial law is imposed (in the name of national security, of course) and most of them would be first in line to report on their neighbors for subversive activity.
Thank god the financial system is failing too fast for the monsters that control the government/corporate banking cartel to stop it. The result will be widespread misery and destruction, but the outcome will be a far freer and just society.
The information on the Internet is too widespread to hide their crimes, and most of them will end up with their heads on pikes once a critical mass of people no longer believe their bullshit.
Anyone who doesn't have a store of gold, food and lead will suffer.
Ok. I am convinced - too much coincidence about Obama's mom and Geithner's dad ...soo, seems like Obama will be re-elected. At least, CIA selected someone likeable ...?
who will be next president after Obama? Hilary? Seems like the TeaBagger canidates would never get to be President as they seem "too volatile" thus untrustworthy. Should this give me comfort?
not sure what to think
Yes, thanks to the people who posted about his mother and Geithner and the front companies. Interesting. Never heard of this before.
Someone made a good point that he did appoint a couple of better Supreme Crt justices. The Dems are a bit better on social issue things. That's the tiny bit of democracy. Mostly though, there are powerful people, unseen, that run everything and elections are just for show. And it's not just the US. It's worldwide. And some places don't even have a tiny bit of democracy and are brutal hellholes. It's interesting to read about the connections, but ultimately depressing to think about.
We're through the looking glass here, bitches.
I'm just glad there are DLers who actually do have a clue what's going on behind the scenes, who is pulling the strings, and that many events are orchestrated, not random. We are a bunch of sheep being distracted by a great big long ongoing football game with seats in the nosebleed section so we can only see fireworks and touchdowns. Put on your teams jacket and fasten up. It's going to be a bumpy decade.
R74, Romney might win if the powers that be think the "pressure valve" needs to be released. The teabaggers will go nuts with rage in 4 years and then we'll be given Jeb.
I doubt many within the CIA would have supported Obama's withdrawal from Iraq. But even if the CIA does have an influence, would you rather be run by the CIA or Sarah Palin, Paul Ryan, Michelle Bachmann and the Tea Party?
R80 believes that the government controls the CIA.
Always, always, always, follow the money. When you get to the end of that trail, if you ever get to the end of that trail, you'll find the real power.
[quote]Always, always, always, follow the money. When you get to the end of that trail, if you ever get to the end of that trail, you'll find the real power.
And if you lose the trail, you could do worse than just looking for the nearest oil company--you'll pick the trail up again soon enough.
VIDEO AT LINK
LBJ Admits Assassination of Diem and Talks of the Consequences
With all the current U.S. inspired government overthrows in the Middle East, the U.S. operatives planning and executing these overthrows should keep in mind that replacement governments do not always match up to expectations.
Here's LBJ admitting to the assassination of South Vietnam's Ngo Dinh Diem and explaining the aftermath.
Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and assassination, Hồ Chí Minh reportedly stated:
I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid.
The North Vietnamese Politburo in a report stated:
The consequences of the 1 November coup d'état will be contrary to the calculations of the U.S. imperialists ... Diệm was one of the strongest individuals resisting the people and Communism. Everything that could be done in an attempt to crush the revolution was carried out by Diệm. Diệm was one of the most competent lackeys of the U.S. imperialists ... Among the anti-Communists in South Vietnam or exiled in other countries, no one has sufficient political assets and abilities to cause others to obey. Therefore, the lackey administration cannot be stabilized. The coup d'état on 1 November 1963 will not be the last.
Hồ Chí Minh's analysis was correct.
Before dawn on January 30, 1964, General Nguyen Khanh ousted the military junta led by General Duong Van Minh from the leadership of South Vietnam. It came less than three months after Minh's junta had themselves come to power in the coup against Diem.
This was followed on February 19, 1965 with some units of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam commanded by General Lam Van Phat and Colonel Pham Ngoc Thao launching a coup against Khanh. Their aim was to install General Tran Thien Khiem, a Khanh rival who had been sent to Washington DC as Ambassador to the United States to prevent him from seizing power. The attempted coup reached a stalemate, and although the trio did not take power, a group of officers led by General Nguyen Chanh Thi and Air Marshal Nguyen Cao Ky, and hostile to both the plot and to Khanh himself, were able to force a leadership change and take control themselves with the support of American officials.
I really think Karl Rove is part of the military industrial complex and I believe that people like Rove give instructions to the CIA. They should all be kept in a dungeon, as far as I'm concerned.
When the Cheney's moved out of the Vice President's house, they moved into a brand new McMansion built just for them. Their next door neighbor? The CIA headquarters in northern Virginia.
Cheney? Rove? CIA?
Surely you jest!
Although all US presidential administrations since LBJ (save Carter) have longstanding links to various CIA funded covert organizations, and there is no concern by the majority that such a shadowy branch of government has undue influence, is testament to the effectiveness of their control of the media.
Thank God the Internet has exposed these deep links, despite the best efforts to control it.
Thank god we have trolldar so we can tell when one person is all over one thread or even multiple threads. Not that you're obsessed with the CIA or anything.
Carter was the only good and decent man in the white house, in my lifetime. That's why the CIA had to get rid of him and put Reagan in. Reagan, a man already suffering from Alzheimers.
Johnson was a good man but not a perfect man. He did play along with the industrial military complex, so that he could get some of his programs passed but that was a good idea, at the time. I think Obama plays ball with them, hoping in the end, he'll get a few things for the people...not JUST the rich people.
Romney will only ask for gifts, for the wealthy. He's an elitist. He does not believe in free education.
R90 is pretty much on target.
Do you honestly think the power brokers behind the scenes, the 'shadows', give a fuck about things like gay rights, or abortion, or gun control?
Like someone said, follow the money. None of the other stuff matters a bit to the people in charge. It's just bread and circuses to occupy the peasants.
81 - The CIA IS a part of the government. But, like it or not, most Americans take a strong line on national defense and the government and the CIA reflect that, for example at the time of the Iraq War most Americans polled supported the invasion. Nations like France, Germany, New Zealand, and Canada have populations which are more pacifist and hence their governments did not back the Iraq War!
The US is not being run by the CIA or any other official group, and most of the population seem content to go along with the illusion of "electing" a president every four years.
TPTB have been running things for a very long time, money doesn't matter ( that's just to keep people busy being good little "consumers" and political power is just another sideshow like the "Khardassians". TPTB are all interconnected families, no one from outside ever gets in , and like it any good family it keeps it's business to itself.
TPTB meets regularly, just google Bohemian Grove, Club of Rome, or Bilderberg.
With no interest in making "money" ( another little game to keep you all busy btw) and all the "power" to keep things this way forever basically...what is the one thing TPTB could yearn for?
A return to a quieter, simpler world, a world without masses of humanity clogging it up and ruining it for TPTB. The REAL game going on right now is called "Protecting the environment" and "future sustainability"... which means protecting the planet from the unwanted masses of humanity and sustaining the future for a very small group of people.
TPTB are on record saying their ultimate goal is a world population of 500,000,000, which means that 6.5 billion of you will just have to go. Just trying to settle on the best way to do this as we speak btw!
The leading one right now is called "Sandman" an airbourne virus that's spreads very easily ( unless you received an inoculation) incubates for a set amount till it be sure that is has spread globally, then one night the "unwanted mass" goes to sleep and never wakes up as the virus kills in your sleep ... no mass panic of a pandemic, over in 24 hours. just need to figure out how to clean it all up after.
Carter was not good or decent. Stop buying evangelical crap.
He was just like the others.
The people who propagandize the right wing only care about power and money. They do not care about religion, they do not care about abortion or gay or straight. They manipulate the conservatives by showing them an apple(outlaw abortion) but they will never ever, completely outlaw abortion. Their daughters and mistresses and housekeepers, need abortions.
Wayne Madsden has written a book about this very subject. WayneMadsdenReport.com
No. Carter was nothing like the others. Has he been wised up? I hope so but no, Carter has a brain and actually had a plan and knew how to think for himself. The Military needs a Reagan or Bush...or they need a corrupt, intelligent person who will play ball. Clinton and Obama know who rules this country but they tried to have some influence.
Come on...I think we all know that Obama negotiated with the CIA and our military for the right to kill Bin Laaden. Well at least he was given credit for it. What a fucking show! Why I work for the Obama re-election? Because he has a brain and he might actually try to do a little good for our country. If he lets them make war with Iran, I hope Iran does have nuclear weapons.
When the CIA overthrows Arab governments hostile to Israel it's like manna from heaven. The same people who scream loudest about the CIA, like Bella Abzug, were howling loudest to get the Arabs. Look at Algeria in 1965. The Second Bandung Conference about the problem of Israel under Chinese auspices with Sukarno s president. The Israelis went howling to LBJ and the Algerian President Ben Bella would up overthrown and put in a fortress in the Sahara. Both Nasser and Nkrumah sent commandos to try to rescue him, the Ghanians taking particularly heavy casualties.
Look at the mess we're in over there today. What if this were a Republican president in an area like South America or Southeast Asia? They'd be screaming for his head! CIA overthrow of governments is definitely a matter of color and religion!
What? We already know what fucking Reagan did. We know what Nixon did in Southeast Asia.
Viet Nam, was for making money, for military corporations.
El Salvador and Nicaraqua...the CIA and right wingers protecting American corporations. If people can't see who has been running our government, since they killed Kennedy...it's because they are stupid.
[quote]Obama's withdrawal from Iraq
The Iraqis told the US to leave.
The CIA didn't have to listen!
Exactly, we left Iraq with a government that's what? Is it any good? We were broke and we had already given all of our money to Halliburton or who the fuck, we were suppose to give all of our tax money too. It was over.
Now the warmongers are pressing for war with Iran. Disgusting.
I would expect the Israelis to take action on Iran themselves if they think it is developing a nuclear bomb, although the US will probably turn a blind eye!
I hate the government of Israel. They have persecuted and tortured the Palestinians...Israel...the new Germany.
Note that the DEMOCRATS have just reinstated in their platform that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. the jewel of the feminist left triumphs again.
G.H.W Bush not only was the Director of the CIA but was IN the CIA and is one of the most evil men walking this earth. Best book about him is Immaculate Deception by Col. Russel Bowen. G.Bush Sr, has done many things in his lifetime and probably was involved in the "outing" of JFK, as he can't account for his whereabouts on that day.
Because JFK tried to get rid of the Federal Reserve with his Executive Order EO 11110 and take their powers away and bring in United States Notes which were backed by silver to replace the Federal Reserve Notes which are backed by nothing-JFK was killed.
I am betting the CIA has direct involvement as they are running the United States government, along with the Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations. If we don't take back our government, as the Department of Homeland Security just ordered over 450 million rounds of .40 Hollow Point Bullets which are meant for "optimal penetration"-to kill, then we will all be doomed soon.
The CIA and military corporations.
R107, too bad most USAmurikuns are watching "The Voice" and can't understand the gravity of the facts you've pointed out.
Just a bump for the people that are inclined to google
If you do, you will find many credible sources that link them to the CIA. It's not conspiracy "theory" when you have facts on your side.
Google "Bilderberg" and this shows up as the 3rd link.
It's the Big Boys, the Elite, the Powers That Be, getting together to screw us little guys.
You think Obama is the most powerful man in the world? These guys could make him suck their dicks on camera if they wanted to.
I've read through the posts from people that can't believe that the CIA has that much power, but none of them ever seem to offer any rebuttal...just "you're a loon/nut/ConTheorist and shut up I don't want to miss DWTS!"
Pointing out that Bush and Obama and Clinton all worked for, and were sponsored by, and have defended the same people who run these organizations...well, to admit that would ruin their carefully constructed worldview of a good and moral government.
These sad souls worship the government, even when Rethuglicans are in control, because they believe that it can Make US BETTER!
I'm so glad I realized how evil murder, lying and theft were as a child. Maybe one day these sad, deluded souls who defend murder, theft and lying will wake up.
Christ, the Libertarian Idiot Troll likes to talk to himself.
R115, if you were smart enough to talk to, I would. Too bad you're dumber than Boehner's cat and Pelosi's pussy.
Following the money, we have to conclude the DIA is running the world, not the CIA. The DIA has always been larger than the CIA. And better funded.
[quote] if you were smart enough to talk to, I would. Too bad you're dumber than Boehner's cat and Pelosi's pussy.
Don't quit your day job, hon.
Better funded than the CIA?
That's funny, in a sad a scary and pathetic that you believe it kind of way.
I remember the Whitney museum in NYC had an exhibit that included a piece called Those who Rule and it was a flow chart/tree diagram of how all the power players are connected. At the time, around 2002, I saw it I was shocked it was even in the musuem.
My family is from Chicago, Hyde Park, and my cousin went to this high end black salon on the south side regularly. She said when Barack became a State Senator, Michelle would have her hair done in private at the salon and not the main area. My cousin even then you couldn't get near her. I thought was weird since he was just a state senator, hell even in California you can see gov. Jerry brown out and about. What's so special about being a state senator's wife to the point you have to sequester yourself?
In George stepphanopolous book about his Clinton years he said shortly after taking office Bill (like practically every president before him) had a private meeting with some high ranking military brass, two people max. George said that after the meeting Bill looked shaken to the core and his demeanor changed from happy go lucky to more somber. What do you think they tell the president in the meeting? It must be some heavy shit. Some people say they tell them about alien treaties etc. I'm not sure but I noticed Obama's demeanor changed too after he took office.
I like Barack but I was really pissed when he ran on Change and then hired all of Clinton's old staffers when he got into office. What kind of Change is a rehash of 1992/1996? He also has some real questionable picks from Wall Street for cabinet appointments. I'm also pissed about Monsanto - what a name translated it means "my holy/sacred" - free pass with their immunity from lawsuits. Also he does zip zero for the black community in his effort to be perceived as colorless even though a person would be safer on the Giza strip or afghanistan than in parts of Chicago. I think the first black prez, Bill Clinton was slightly more effective on racial issues but he pushed thru that nafta bullshit and pardoned Marc Rich.
One more thing then i'll drop the mic, a couple of years ago a huge deposit of minerals and metals was found in Afghanistan worth billions. When I heard about that I knew we have no serious plans to exit Afghanistan. Too much money at stake and we have to keep the Chinese out. Notice the slow exit, and now all the new terrorist activity that suggests we need to stay longer to keep the peace.
Are any of those CIA front companies profitable?
profitable for whom?
For the Gov't, they allow us to listen and attack anyone.
The taxpayers pick up the tab.
Read some Rothbard, or Mises and learn about how the Gov't agencies do not NEED to be prodfitable to anyone but the rulers.
They are very profitable. CIA analyst Samuel Cummings became a billionaire and he was just dealing with surplus small arms.
How do you become an arms dealer? Family connections?
R124 ask Gary North.
This is lot to digest. So who is at the top?
[quote]This is lot to digest. So who is at the top?
We are ruled by Lizard People. I read it on the internet, it must be true!
Follow the money, R126.
The people who "run things" are never in the papers, they are background superwealthy families. Think Rothschild. Rockefeller.
Hell, even the Koch brothers aren't as wealthy as the BIG boys.
I love you 128 thank you for being sane and aware.
[quote]I read it on the internet, it must be true!
The NY Times said Saddam Hussein had WMDs so it must be true!
The Wall Street Journal said it was a good idea to buy Facebook at $38 a share, so it must be true!
The Washington Post said sub-prime mortgages would keep the housing market strong so it must be true!
R129, it sometimes takes months to even think about coming back to this place. The willful ignorance is bad enough, but the "true believers" that cannot, no WILL NOT, see that both parties are essentially the same- they both support war, the big corps, total control of the mundanes, and the surveillance state- and that their minor differences exist to rouse their subjects into fighting one another without looking for the big picture, well they wear me out.
I've been surprised lately- there seem to be more people that reject the false "left/right" or "Rep/Dem" paradigm and are actually interested in learning about "why" the country is in such dire straits.
Well they aren't the same, not totally.
But you are part of the problem in thinking there is a third party solution to this R131. The two parties are legally entrenched. Nobody's gonna blast them away. They have to be taken over from within, not ditched for some other party. And the GOP is vulnerable: their primary vote totals are SO LOW that a concerted effort by Progressives could take them over. And then EVERYTHING would change.
Where did I suggest another party? They would just become part of the Elite Power.
Best idea- dismantle DC, and return ALL powers to the states.
But that could only be done by the rigamarole of the Constitutional Convention which would gut the very document you are trying to resurrect.
Once again, there is no alternative to creating a progressive movement running progressive candidates for office in both parties to take our nation back.
No, all that has to happen is for states to say "fuck you" to DC, and dare them to invade.
I do not revere the Constitution- it's what gave these fools power. The Articles of Confederation were much better- no centralized power, almost all powers retained by the state, and NO central bank to counterfeit currency.
Read the history books, and learn about how decentralized (yet coherent) the early colonies were. We didn't need DC then, and we don't need it now.
R128, I (r126) agree with you. But who are these people who never get written about? And if they selected BHO to be prez then the question is why? What was their reason? I have no opinion I just want to know how their thinking runs?
Agree with R128 the people who "run things" have had lots of money for 100s of years and are not "new money" and don't go spend crazy with any of their $ like the Vanderbilts including Anderson Cooper and his mom do.
[quote]I've read through the posts from people that can't believe that the CIA has that much power, but none of them ever seem to offer any rebuttal...just "you're a loon/nut/ConTheorist and shut up I don't want to miss DWTS!"
Dear heart, we don't offer any "rebuttal" because you never post any actual evidence to support your silly assertions. I mean, when your idea of "evidence" is a Google search for "CIA and Bank of Hawaii" and you actually cite the number of links as "proof" that the latter is a front organization? The mind boggles....
[quote]Pointing out that Bush and Obama and Clinton all worked for, and were sponsored by, and have defended the same people who run these organizations...well, to admit that would ruin their carefully constructed worldview of a good and moral government.
Still waiting for that evidence, dear. We're not holding our breaths, though. What's hilarious is that you will believe *anything* you read on those sites you frequent, no matter how ridiculous. Your credulity is truly amazing.
[quote] It's not conspiracy "theory" when you have facts on your side.
Dear heart, you wouldn't know a "fact" if it bit you in the ass.
R138 talks like a fourth-grade teacher who sincerely believes that any of his pupils might grow up to be president.
Ignore her, R139
I can always tell her posting style- condescending, but never shows any proof, just appeals to authority- and I just ignore her. That's made it much easier.
If she had a valid argument she might post something worthwhile, but that never happens.
Just as Bush the lesser (as a product of a CIA household) could be counted on to do what he was told to do by his superiors, BHO is the same.
I'm wondering if these current scandals, and the fact that much of the left in the media is abandoning him, are because he decided he was going to do something they didn't like, or not do something they want, like invade Iran.
The story about BHO as a young man giving the woman enough money to return to the Netherlands, and several other stories (that may or may not be true) made me think he was a good man. Even his actions as prez seem to always pull towards the good. But I'm now convinced that he is just another puppet and deserves the same fate as Bush, Cheney, Gore, Clinton, etc. and I would support any prosecution (and verdict) of all of the above for war crimes.
R140 et al is a climate change denialist TROLL on that thread. BUSTED!
[quote]I can always tell her posting style- condescending
It's not like I try to hide my posts, dear. Only one of us has been caught using a sock puppet, and it wasn't me.
[quote]but never shows any proof, just appeals to authority
ROFL.... You mean just like you, dear? If you ever, just once, provided one shred of actual proof, I would respond in kind. However, since you never do, I don't need to. All I need to do is sit back and laugh at you.
[quote]and I just ignore her. That's made it much easier.
Uh-huh, whatever, dear.
[quote]If she had a valid argument she might post something worthwhile, but that never happens.
ROFL.... Oh, the irony.... And what's really hilarious is that you have never, and will never, recognize that.
[quote]Just as Bush the lesser (as a product of a CIA household) could be counted on to do what he was told to do by his superiors, BHO is the same.
[quote]I'm wondering if these current scandals, and the fact that much of the left in the media is abandoning him, are because he decided he was going to do something they didn't like, or not do something they want, like invade Iran.
Yes, dear, that's exactly what it is. Or maybe it's because the pink unicorns are controlling things now!
[quote]But I'm now convinced that he is just another puppet and deserves the same fate as Bush, Cheney, Gore, Clinton, etc. and I would support any prosecution (and verdict) of all of the above for war crimes.
Yes, dear, we know. That's just part of what makes your posts here so entertaining.
r138: but who are these superwealthy? One aspect of mankind is his ego. i would think some from that group would want others to know them?
"i would think some from that group would want others to know them?" Their peers do, r145; their peers do.
r136, perhaps to be a Democratic Party Trojan horse?
But who are these people and who are their peers?
I believe our American myopia forgets there are super wealthy (and secretive societies) in other lands. The Japanese have their White Rose society. I have read of European groups other than the Bilderbergers who are too young and too open. The Illuminati have been around a while and are much more secretive but seem to have a lot of control. Club of Rome is a contender.
But if Forbes can track the wealthiest then why couldn't they follow the money to the wealthiest. Besides, the 6th generation of Rockefellers claim not to have the wealth of their forebears. So who are these super wealthy?
Rockefeller elders, r149.
Google "Illuminati elite."
The naivete here is almost beyond belief.
Educate yourselves, queenlings.
R16 "Back then"? You make it sound like Obama was elected 30 years ago. Sheesh.
The Schiffs are one of the ruling elite families. Al Gore's daughter married one.
Now we have Verizon wiretaps?!?
TPTB want Obama GONE!
Yes, the CIA and The Military Industrial Complex. They have been running our government since they killed Kennedy.
Carter was in the dark about it, so they got him out of office with fake kidnappings in Iran.
Carter was a patsy.
But, R155, the fact that the CIA controls (directly or indirectly) everyone from the prez to the lower ranking congress makes "exposing" it futile.
Anyone who denies that the "BIG BOYS" control the narrative and content of the big media players, allowing no deviation from the Hegelian doctrine...that's the scary shit!!!
I voted for Obama and preferred him over any right winger but the point is, we do not actually choose our president. I'm sure congress is fixed. If anyone, including Obama refuses to cooperate, they are gone.
I wonder how/why "they" let Carter get elected in the first place.
Rubbish - Why was Obama allowed to beat McCain then who was much more a hawk? Why would Ron or Rand Paul be allowed any votes at all considering they both basically want to return to US isolationism and dispand the CIA?
Oh yes, they have been pressuring to invade Iran...so far he has held out but they will try some stunt to force him into submission...as if our tax free society could afford to pay our bomb builders anymore money. It's revolting. Corporations shot themselves in the foot when they decided to keep workers from earning a decent living.
I think they believed Carter would be an easy guy to get around. Well they weren't as bright as they thought...they couldn't understand that some politicians actually hold on to their principals. So they had to get rid of him and put an Alzheimer's patient in his place. It worked perfectly.
The American people are so easy to manipulate. All you have to do is wave a flag (along with a gun) and they are oft to do your bidding.
[quote]I wonder how/why "they" let Carter get elected in the first place.
Well, golly jeepers. I wonder what could have happened in, say, August 1974 that could have allowed "them" to elect Carter.
"Corporations shot themselves in the foot when they decided to keep workers from earning a decent living."
Think of it this way- how many millions of government workers that do nothing but enforce mostly bullshit rules each day, plus the people that corporations pay to make sure they don't violate these bullshit rules, and then add the people who take advantage of these bullshit rules...well, then you will understand why companies are moving their manufacturing and IT services overseas.
No wonder the only jobs are in the low paying service sector.
So I presume everyone on this message board will be campaigning for Rand Paul in 2016 then, as Paul and his father are the only candidates from either party who have said they would abolish the CIA?
161 It is quite complicated, Iran backs Assad along with Russia and China against rebels backed by Al Qaeda and Sunni Saudi Arabia (and presumably by Saddam Hussein too had he still been in power), Iraq is now Shia dominated too and also backs Assad! Don't think the CIA has a clue!
I don't like Rand- I think he is being set up as the "standard" for the "NEWGOP" fascists.
His dad never gave into their bullshit.
What's your take?
Ron Paul never sold out, and always held firm to his beliefs even if it cost him votes.
wouldn't Rand be one of those "a broken clock is right twice a day" types
seemed to be wrong/stupid on a lot of issues
I believe that most of us can agree, even if the CIA is in control of all 3 branches of government, even if the NSA is sniffing every single detail of our lives...
...Libertarians are still idiots.
Please find some other board to troll.
You are too tiresome.
Excuse me? [bold]I'M[/bold] the one trolling this board? Coming from the jackass who carpets half the threads on this board with miles of incoherent Libertarian spam??
 Paul is a bit more establishment GOP than his father but the GOP establishment still can't stand him, and if he won the nomination against Hillary (perfectly possible given present polls) I could see the likes of the Bushes and McCain secretly voting for Hillary.
 He may be wrong on many issues but that does not stop him being right on some things
 If libertarians like Paul had their way there would have been no Wall Street bailout, so most if not all the banks would have gone the way of Lehmans, and no CIA. They also respect state rights on gay marriage. They may not be right on everything, and their ideas are a little crazy, but that does not mean some are not interesting!
Committee of 300
Council on Foreign Relations
Google has their members list.
You are a troll, and a tiresome one at that.
You never explain why you prefer slavery to freedom, but just assume that your inane ramblings have merit.
You sound like someone who would tell Jews in 1938 Germany that the people telling them they needed to get out of town were crazy, or someone who was making mortgages in 2007 telling clients that the $500K McMansion was a great deal because property never loses value.
Fuck off and shut up, or give a reason.
[quote]You are a troll, and a tiresome one at that.
Like most of your assertions, this, too, is false, since it's clear you don't understand the derivation or the meaning of the word "troll."
[quote]You never explain why you prefer slavery to freedom,
Probably because, like most of your assertions, this is entirely false. Why should he "explain" a preference he doesn't feel?
[quote]but just assume that your inane ramblings have merit.
ROFL.... Project much?
[quote]You sound like someone who would tell Jews in 1938 Germany that the people telling them they needed to get out of town were crazy
Godwin's Law. You lose.
[quote]Fuck off and shut up, or give a reason.
Why? You never do.
Anyone here remember the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations formed in 1976?
This was done as a response to the Church Committee which revealed a slew of crimes committed by the various intelligence agencies along with a strong recommendation to curb the power of those organizations. None of the Ford White House advisers was more infuriated by this report than young Donald Rumsfeld.
The USHSCA held two years of mostly secret meetings. Although they acknowledged evidence that suggested a conspiracy to kill JFK, in the end they challenged very little of the official explanations of the killing of the President and MLK. Most of the records were sealed up for fifty years.
One supposes that Ford, who served on the Warren Commission, was more than willing to cooperate in a plan to exonerate the CIA and FBI from any crimes committed on US soil by conducting an official investigation guaranteed to do so. They weren't going to wait and gamble that Ford would win the election in '76. This had to be gotten underway before an uninitiated and therefore less compliant Democrat came along and put his own people to the task.
I am a member of more than one family routinely named in these nonsensical conspiracy theories. If you only knew my fucking relatives you would immediately realize how wrong you've been all these years.
Seriously - they can barely get through dinner, let alone secretly take over and/or run the world.
I know, the hardcore conspiracy nuts will never believe it so have it your own way. To the normal people of the DL, I speak from experience and my uncles couldn't take over and run a wet paper bag.
Nobody but a stupid republican from the sixties would name the Rockefellers.
But other families, different story.
David Rockefeller turns 98 on June 12th and is one of the 500 richest people in the world.
What part of "98" don't you get? Besides, he was far too liberal to take part in what's going on now. Just saw on t.v. that they will close an historic shipyard in Gdansk because the government gave them a 40 million euro bailout in 2009 and "EU rules" forbid them to do more than one bailout in ten years. Nonsense and stupidity. The shipyard could be profitable with very little investment. Who put these neo-liberal idiot rules on the EU? Libertarian morons, that's who.
Here's the thing: If Obama was groomed for years to be the preordained president, why did he spend so much time promoting certain changes both during campaigns and early in his presidential career? He ended up having to abandon things like his promise to shut down Gitmo, which cost him quite a bit of good will and power, so it seems unlikely he would have spent so much time on these issues knowing they would fail.
I agree that there is a small set of ultra rich, ultra powerful people, most of whom we've never heard of, who control a hell of a lot more in our country (world) than we will ever know. I don't think that means presidents are preordained, or that the Masons or Illuminati or New World Order is really ruling everything. Just rich people. It's always the money.
[quote]What part of "98" don't you get?
What part of "one of the 500 richest people in the world" don't YOU get?
Actually, I think it's the guns, not the money, and Guantanamo Bay is the proof.
"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." —David Rockefeller, from his own book, Memoirs.
If they were putting rules on private investments then they were NOT libertarians. Do you even know what the word "Libertarian" means?
Wonder who repped the Rockefeller family at Bilderberger this year?
[quote]If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
Of course, out here in the real world, that has nothing do with any conspiracy theory you're babbling about.
i've long wondered if the kennedy assassination wasn't a coup, and there were elements of the military/industrial complex who were truly holding the reins of government, and this was confirmed by the appointments of obama's first cabinet:
when obama was elected, the american people were DISGUSTED at the ruin GWB made of our nation, particularly his disastrous economic policies that nearly permanently crippled our nation, and the 2 unending wars we were duped into. americans wanted change, yes, but in the area of the economy and the wars, they were incensed- they wanted heads to roll. so when obama was elected, and the first thing he did was keep on teh very architects of these disastrous policies from the previous administration- ben bernanke at the fed and robert gates at defense, i knew the fix was in. change was not coming, and we were merely being given a cosmetic fix- a man who seemed the exact opposite of bush, to lull us into complacency, but was a figurehead to keep things rolling along as is.
if i am wrong, please tell me of the major policy reversals that happened when we were demanding change. tell me how the economic elite were punished for their crimes. tell me how the torture and the domestic spying stopped. tell me how all our troops were brought home from foreign wars and how we no longer have a presence in iraq (despite lip-service, we are still very much there). tell me about the changes, and i might change my mind. until then, much as i hate to have anything in common with a backwards, semi-retarded, reality-denying, libertarian troll, i will continue to believe that there is more than meets the eyes here.
and irregardless of any commonalties i may have about my suspicions with teh yellow troll infesting this thread, this liberal democratic socialist wholeheartedly agrees with r170: libertarians are still idiots.
Libertarians are thoughtless selfish pigs, who believe their taxes should be paid by the poor.
Irregardless is not a word.
What is the conclusion to this thread?
No, the CIA isn't "running our government," R191.
So when you think about it, Bush Sr. was president for at least 3 terms...possibly 5? We know Reagan was nothing more then a puppet, a figurehead, THE MAN HAD ALZHEIMERS!
I was wrong- the NSA runs it.
Not them either. The Pentagon. The Pentagon was running our government before the CIA and NSA existed. Hoover, for example. The Secret Service were all trained by the FBI under Hoover's direct supervision. And Hoover reported to the generals all his life.
193 - Bush Senior was actually more moderate than Reagan, he ran against him in 1990 remember and when he became president in 1988 did things like raise taxes on the rich to cut the deficit, only went to war with UN approval and signed the Kyoto treaty, Bush Snr was miles better than his son! If the rich libertarians truly had their way they would scap the CIA and every other branch of government so they would have to pay virtually no taxes (and as they can live in private compouns with their own security, educate their children at expensive private schools and easily afford health insurance clearly having no government would be no skin off their nose)
195 Well the Pentagon has not managed to stop Obama's defense cuts!
Well 197 maybe for every dollar they cut from the Pentagon they get to increase the tax cut for the wealthy.
Because he's a sociopathic liar puppet, R182?
197 - You know full well Obama has put up the top rate for those earning over $400,000 per year!
But corporations are still getting the big breaks.
In my county, we have no money to run our county but we are still giving tax breaks to corporations. Ignorant voters are the people at fault in this situation.
Is this something people aren't aware of?
Ed Snowden is a hero!!!1
Yup, it's the corporations and the mega wealthy. Everything else is just a tool to keep the masses in check.
IMO, we have been systematically building a corporate police state for some time. I think the election of Reagan accelerated the process and that is what we have now.
Everything, every part of the U.S. government is controlled by the corporate police state as in the "government" as our popular conception of it, controls nothing. The question the OP posits is really kind of silly and sad. It's very 60's.
The CIA and other intelligence gathering apparatus are all tools for the corporate police state not vice versa. We now have a global economy. Multi-national corporations control everything.
Most Americans are too disengaged and too stupid to realize what's going on. One day, when life is truly intolerable, people will wonder how it came to such a place.
I'm wondering why, if the Paul's are potential "flies in the ointment", why they haven't awakened with horse heads in their beds?
You know, I think the myth of one entity "controlling" anything is laughable. What we have is opportunists taking advantage of certain situations to promote their own interests.
If they can use or exploit others and get them to do the dirty work, or divide and conquer, then so be it. That's what's going on now. People who have power will advantage them selves at the expense of others. It's not tricky. People like Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Sarah Pailin, Michelle Bachmann, etc. are part of the circus.
If you want to change the equation, you have to get involved at a grassroots level and understand how it works. People like Karl Rove have been getting things done at a grassroots level for years.
That's the one thing we seem to not "get." There's no office that is unimportant. State school boards, local county commissioners, state legislators, etc.
You want to change it? Get moving. Most people are not familiar with how government works. Most people are frightened and act out of fear. Most people are "low information" voters.
In non-Presidential years, like 2014, voter turnout is low. There's not enough push back. Right now, this summer, there are local political organizations populated by people with petty local agendas, and they are getting ready to run for office, or help select the people who will run in 2014.
If you have not joined or participated in your local Democratic Party organizations you need to do it RIGHT NOW. You have to work hard to inform yourself. You won't get a lot from the traditional mainstream media outlets. Especially as it covers your state political operations.
I've discovered that local government and "national news" or what passes for national news, is what people pay attention to. But the real impact of government happens at the state level, and the media does a piss poor job of covering it.
All three of Obama's options for new Fed Reserve Chair are Jewish.
Obama and Clinton both operate on the basis of 1950s stereotypes.
Actually the real impact of our government is at local level and it is not covered at all.
99% of New Yorkers have no idea how anything in New York City gets done.
Some say the CIA owns the White House and has done so either exclusively or nearly so since LBJ.
[bold]JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WOULD THE LIBERTARIAN FUCKWIT PLEASE STOP BUMPING HIS MASTURBATORY THREADS.[/bold]
How difficult is it to skip a thread that doesn't interest you, R212?
When it keeps getting shoved onto the front page two fucking years after you've been repeatedly proven to be a complete idiot? Difficult.
Fuck you, Saul.
When will these old white men realize that Jews really aren't smarter about money than anybody else?
No... it's all been foretold in the bible... The fig leaf is on the tree!! YOU LOSE DEMOCRATS!!
In an interview Saturday with Jan Markell on the Christian radio program "Understanding the Times," Bachmann accused President Barack Obama of giving aid to terrorists. This, she says, is solid evidence that we have entered the Last Days.
"I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, as I look at the End Times scripture, this says to me that the leaf is on the fig tree and we are to understand the signs of the times, which is your ministry, we are to understand where we are in God’s end time history."
"the baton of global leadership has been passed by America to the Mullahs, the Marxist world, and other dark forces,"
“Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha, come Lord Jesus, His day is at hand,” Bachmann said. “When we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this: that these days would be as the days of Noah.”
This is NOT directed at the lovely and talented Michelle Bachmann poster. That shit is hilarious. This is for the annoying freaks in here, as usual.
Man: Well, what've you got?
Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...
Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...
Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Wife: I don't want ANY spam!
Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?
Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!
Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam... (Crescendo through next few lines...)
Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?
Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.
Wife: I don't like spam!
Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.
Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?
Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam... (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)
Vikings: (Singing elaborately...) Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!
[quote]When it keeps getting shoved onto the front page two fucking years after you've been repeatedly proven to be a complete idiot? Difficult.
Considering the revelations about the NSA spying on every phone call, email and website...yes, R214, you ARE a complete idiot.
[quote]yes, [R214], you ARE a complete idiot.
Says the fucking idiot who has no idea how the US economy works.
Or what the word "fascism" means.
And who thinks that global warming is a myth.
And thinks that massive inflation will implode the US economy.
And thinks that the US defaulting on it's debt would be a liberating experience.
Am I living in a comic book? Where is Rictor?
So, you deny that the revelation that the NSA is spying on all our phone calls and emails is relevant?
How fascist of you.
It's more complicated than that, but that's part of it. At the end of the day, the Golden Rule applies. He who has the gold, makes the rules. But the NSA, CIA, etc. are good tools when the power brokers want to do something and don't feel like taking the time to orchestrate it for the public to see.
Babs Bush, that demure flower and matriarch of the Bush klan, was quite the moll in the 60s. The thought that such a warm and loving granny type figure could be part of the murder of a president is preposterous.
Her beautiful mind is too pure for that!
What possible connection could there have been between George H.W. Bush and the assassination of John F. Kennedy? Or between the C.I.A. and the assassination? Or between Bush and the C.I.A.? For some people, apparently, making such connections was as dangerous as letting one live wire touch another.
Here, in anticipation of the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination in November, is the fourth part of a ten-part series of excerpts from WhoWhatWhy editor Russ Baker’s bestseller, Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, America’s Invisible Government and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years. The story is a real-life thriller.
Isn't she the illegitimate daughter of a famous Satanist?
Hush yo mouth, R223-
That's crazy talk. Anyone who believes that our government could ever assassinate a president or overthrow a legitimate foreign government or engage in wholesale spying on the US...that is just crazy. Craycray.
Our government is too good to do that!