My sister asked me this question and I didn''t know how to answer her, other than to deny it and then quickly try to think of an example of a non-self-centered gay person. I pretty much failed and on the inside I was thinking, "She''s right...that''s a good question." The only reason I can think of is that, growing up gay, you kind of develop a "me against the world" attitude. Plus we''re not allowed to get married or adopt kids in most states, so who else do we have to be centered around? All we have are ourselves! So we''re kind of selfish by default. That''s my hypothesis, anyway. Thoughts?
I think your sister is a homophobic bitch. Those are my thoughts.
OP: I think it has to do with the fact that, traditionally, gay men have only had to worry about themselves. Straight men have families they have to provide for--wife and multiple kids. Most gay men partner up with someone from a similar socio-economic background. If they do have kids, it''s often because they''re well off financially and can spend tens of thousands for a kid. Basically, the situations in our life happen because of our conscious decisions. An accidental or unplanned pregnancy can''t conspire to change our lives. We''re usually only temporary providers if anything.
Most gay men have peter pan syndrome.
R2 Actually she''s not. And I think she was asking a valid question. Truth hurts sometimes.
You''re a self loathing piece of shit, OP. Substitute any other minority in your scenario. Do you think black people are all self-centered? Native Americans? They''ve had a lot of shit to deal with too.\
The only thing your post proves is that being gay will not prevent you from being a moronic douchebag suffering from mental weakness and a lack of spine.
I''m gay and honestly I wonder the same thing on a regular basis. Most gays I know are not very nice and everything is like a popularity contest. Some gays are mean bitches who act like you''re nothing, as if you''re not on their "level". I get so sick of that shit...probably why I have no gay friends other than my boyfriend.
Because some gay people are the only self-absorbed beings on the planet! Ridiculous!
Someone seems to have hit a raw nerve with R6.\
I find gay men to be very self-absorbed, so I don''t think the sister''s question was off-base.
And there are so many OUT gays circulating amongst us that we can draw this conclusion?\
Who knows how many gay men are lurking in closets? Although, one could make a case that these men are self-absorbed.\
In addition, most gay men do not make it into the spotlight, and the ones who do, are usually the badly behaved ones.\
I think the opposite is true, OP. Consider that 50% of Catholic priests are gay.(Only 1-2% of those priests are there to molest, so, don''t give me that bullshit). Many of those priests, believe it or not, are there to serve society, not themselves.\
There are also plenty of gay men involved in the missions and selfless works to help others. An example of this is a gay couple (male) who have dedicated themselves to help the poor in some country. I think they were on 60 Minutes, about a year ago. Anyone remember this? One of the guys was really tall.
Actually, she is OP. If she had asked you why Jewish people are so greedy or why black men are so violent, would you have thought, "Hmmm. My sister has a very valid point. This is not a bigoted question at all, and I should post it to Datalounge to solicit their opinions"? And having done so, then continued to defend the idiotic, anti-Semitic/racist statement?
Good answer OP.
R6 When you''re black, you still have a whole family of other black people to have your back. And the goes for Native Americans. Last I checked, gays don''t have that growing up. Try again?
R11 If you don''t think gay people are largely self-centered, you are either living in denial or in some alternate universe. Lets get real here.
OP, where do you live? Hollywood? NYC? If so, what you are saying is probably true. And, if you live in Buttfuck, OK, I doubt your know too many out gay men.\
In other words, I think you are projecting what may be true of you and a select few to the entire gay population. \
Most gay men know what it''s like to suffer. This makes most of these men more empathetic, and more compassionate toward others. Most of the DataLounge posters post from NYC, Hollywood, and places where you will find mostly elitist gays.
Let me guess, OP; your sister viewed ''The Boys in the Band'', has more questions than answers, and your piano bar experience makes you an authority.\
Frau Thread circa 1982
[quote]Someone seems to have hit a raw nerve with [R6].\
Yes, the same raw nerve that racism, homophobia, or any other bigotry invokes. To bad you have no sense of it; the world would be a better place if more people understood that demonizing entire groups of people with negative attributes just creates more misery and injustice.\
Not all of us have spines, though. Sorry you have neither a conscience or a spine, R9.
This is true of the flyover and Southern gays. Gays in the city have access to gay social outlets. The flyover and Southern gays never seem to get over their trauma of being socially isolated and are full of self-centered drama. They''re damaged goods best avoided.
Yes, because straight men are so altruistic and other-centered.%0D\
Me thinks OP is looking for something to blame his selfish, greedy, materialistic, self-absorbed nasty self on.
Me thinks OP is a straight chick.
Well let''s see. Negativity and rejection from your family, friends, society, the government and the church.\
Hate with a smile from all of the above.\
You cannot naturally grow emotionally with everyone else because of the inner turmoil from hating yourself as a child, learning how to lie just to survive and then getting good at it.\
Just what does your sister expect?
Yes, gay men are so self-absorbed...%0D\
That''s why there are no gay nurses, social workers, carers, etc
MOST people are self-absorbed.
Me thinks OP is a closeted HW actor. They love to hate on gays, and distinguish themselves as somehow superior to the rest of us. Funny thing is there is nothing more self-absorbed than an HW actor.
OP = coward\
Sorry you have to wear the labels others put on you, OP, but that''s what cowards do.
OP =Cowardly Lion
"I think the opposite is true, OP. Consider that 50% of Catholic priests are gay.(Only 1-2% of those priests are there to molest, so, don''t give me that bullshit). Many of those priests, believe it or not, are there to serve society, not themselves."\
Joining a religious cult that exploits people for cash is hardly a helpful contribution to society.\
R20: Methinks is one word.
Yes r23, and through OP''s explanation his sister should have realized she is actually a self absorbed herself for not considering the plight of a gay person before asking that question.
Methinks OP is an Exodus International gay.
Does your "sister" know a lot of gay people? Nay, does she know all of them? What is she basing this on? As soon as you start to stereotype any minority, you''re in trouble. She needs to get out in the world and not be so judgmental. Every group runs the gamut. You''ll find the best and worst in all groups. BTW, what she asked you is completely inappropriate.
R22 Those are paid positions, hello. Not exactly charity.
I don''t like you, R26. Let''s be friends.
your place, not mine
Aren''t most people quite self-absorbed? Doesn''t that come with the territory of being human?
r18, bitch please. If this board is any proof, that those gay social outlets turn big city gays into an army of Peter Pan elitists with delusions of grandeur. Also a damaged goods.
[quote]Those are paid positions, hello.\
So having a job is self-absorbed? \
With OP as her brother, OP''s sister must think all gays are idiots, too.
I''m r22 - please include lesbians in my list of self-absorbed gays...(apologies)%0D\
Your sister sounds like a fame-obsessed douche, OP.
We laugh - they care
I agree with the first part of your thessis, OP, but I''m wondering if you''re fairly young (no offense intended.) The notion of getting married and adopting kids was fairly preposterous until very recently. Before that, our hope was for regular human rights and before that just not to be found out and hurt real bad! But we were self-absorbed all along.
[quote]You cannot naturally grow emotionally with everyone else because of the inner turmoil from hating yourself as a child, learning how to lie just to survive and then getting good at it.\
Actually, you can grow, and quite a bit further than those who have not had to struggle or suffer as much in life. \
You see, the struggle/suffering can make you more fully human. I''m a much better person than I was 20 years ago, and that''s due to the rough times...not the happy-go-lucky times. \
Of course, suffering/struggle makes the people who are too weak to deal, become hard, and mean.
It''s true about southern gays. They generally seem to get stuck in a self-absorbed need to please their mommas. Mostly closet case queens.
R34 Using gay nurses as evidence that not all gays are self-centered is ridiculous. One of the biggest cunts I''ve EVER known worked as a nurse. She would always tell me about her "fat" and "disgusting" patients.
Why is it always the minority?%0D\
You always hear these questions:%0D\
Why are gay men so self absorbed?%0D\
Why don''t black people do this or do that?%0D\
Why is the Puerto Rican Day Parade such a mess?%0D\
How come know one ever asks why straight white people act the way they do?
So many damaged self-haters (and haters of others) in this thread. Gay people are no more self-absorbed than anyone else.
Oh, kids. You''ve been trolled.\
OP is a dateless loser who thinks gays are bad because he''s routinely rejected. So he starts a thread to chastise the gays for treating him badly. Only he can''t bear to admit it''s because his foulness causes him to be rejected, so he appeals to the "authority" of his straight sister to label the gays self-absorbed.\
Oh, OP. You pitiful creature. Sucks to be you.
R39 - clean up their shit, then you can talk about how "uncaring" your "friend" is...%0D\
I''m a legal librarian - I''m sure I could match her tale for tale about disgusting stuff...%0D\
It''s a release mechanism...
Which lawyer wanked over the book on child sexual abuse?
r41 wins! Sounds like OP is a self-involved (not so) EST.
R29 She is still in high school, and she said that all the gay people she knows at her school are very self-centered. While I realize she is young and her exposure to gays is limited, her observations are not at all different from what I''ve witnessed as someone who''s fully-emersed in the gay world.
R42 You nailed me. Yep...you''re good!
I reject the premise, too.
R43 She wasn''t my friend, hun. She was a cunt I made the mistake of moving in with a few years back. Anorexic, tanorexic alcoholic that would do nothing but talk shit about her patients. She wasn''t the kind of nurse who cleans up shit, either, so she wasn''t just venting. I couldn''t believe some of the nasty things she''d say.
Gay men are self-absorbed and mean.
R3 answers the question in part. Otherwise, gays traditionally have not had the same benefit of social support systems as straights, with many having to do without or find substitues for family networks, college fraternities and sororities, professional organizations, old line social clubs, religion, even neighbors (for those who may have been cloistered away in gay ghettos.)%0D\
Read any thread that crops up on here about gay couples and finances and there''s always a strong current of thought that gay couples should be plan for quick and clean and easy separations of ways - no intermingling of finances, every common expense split cleanly down the middle, everything geared for walking away with no fuss. While there are some practical benefits, it''s hardly the model of straights, and a level of self-protection that''s sometimes not far off self-absorption.%0D\
Die in a grease fire, r50, you pig.
R26, whether that''s true or not, the people entering the priesthood do NOT know this.%0D\
All of the corruption in the Catholic church is at the highest level. In fact, I''m learning that the Vatican RULES THE WORLD. However, 99% of Catholics have no idea that this is true, including men who enter the priesthood.%0D\
The Roman Empire never died. It simply infiltrated the Catholic church. If you want to know anyting about Christianity, look at the first three centuries, when Christians wer not only truly pascifists (sp?), but believed in reincarnation, accepted homosexuality...%0D\
There are lots of Catholics/Christians who fully understand and carry out the faith.
"She wasn''t the kind of nurse who cleans up shit, either"%0D\
Met too many of that kind, gay and straight.
Haven''t you heard? Shit is the new red meat!
OP, not everyone needs or wants to have children.%0D\
No excuses for not wanting to have and raise children is needed.%0D\
Not wanting children is NOT a fault or character flaw.%0D\
Plenty of hetero people do not want children either.%0D\
It is a personal choice. Raising children is a TON OF WORK and a very laborious grind daily for 18 straight years. Intensive labor every day - endless childcare and housework.%0D\
No excuses are needed for not wanting kids!
Thank God, Donald Trump isn''t self-absorbed.%0D\
Thank God, most straight CEO''s aren''t totally self-absorbed, their wives and kids being necessary items in their climbing to success.%0D\
Thank God, Sarah Palin isn''t self-absorbed, thinking her knocked-up daughter, another self-absorbed straight bitch, was somehow the Virgin Mary for getting knocked-up by a self-absorbed idiot. %0D\
Thank God, all those couples having kids to make sure the family line is continued and so they could have a mini-me or two around to reflect well on themselves are not self-absorbed.%0D\
No excuses for not wanting to raise children are needed!
[quote]Most gay men know what it''s like to suffer. This makes most of these men more empathetic, and more compassionate toward others. %0D\
I don''t know about about self-absorbed but based on the threads here, I would say empathy and being non-judgemental is at a premium.
I surprised so many straight people think having a family and then putting all your energy into raising your children, constantly talking about them, posting their pics and essentially living through them is not a form of self absorption to the max.
[R6] Historically, women haven''t exactly had an easy life in this Country, either.
I think that self-absorbed gay men are self-absorbed the way teen-aged girls are...completely lacking in maturity (despite education or career responsibilities)...but I don''t think there are significantly more self-absorbed gay men as a percentage of their population, as there are self-absorbed straight men as a percentage of their population. \
Frankly, most people are as self-absorbed as they can afford to be; it''s easier to be self-absorbed if you don''t have children. I know many straight guys who are very self-absorbed, but their girlfriends or wives provide complete cover for them...they aren''t obviously self-absorbed, because if they don''t do something, excuses are made for them and the women generally do the heavy lifting in those relationships...
I doubt gay men are more or less self-absorbed than other "groups." Your sister is probably seeing that "category" of gay men who are too focused on their looks. So instead of seeing those people as primarily narcissists, she''s seeing them as gay. If she went to a sorority house and saw girls preening and talking about themselves, she might think sorority girls were self-absorbed.
Venn Diagram, PhD
Overall, I think cats are more self-absorbed than dogs; however, there are always exceptions to the rule...same as people.
I know lots of gay men who are completely down-to-earth and I wouldn''t ever describe them as self-absorbed. \
Maybe self-absorbed people tend to hang out with others, so maybe OP only knows other self-absorbed people, but that has nothing to do with being gay.
[quote]they aren''t obviously self-absorbed, because if they don''t do something, excuses are made\
And if excuses aren''t made for them they wail about having their "balls broken". That''s a favorite expression for straight males who don''t like be called on anything.
The reactions to this thread are pathetic. It highlights another flaw universally shared by gay men: we tend to think we''re perfect and everyone else is in the wrong. When''s the last time you or any of your friends accepted personal responsibility for anything? Exactly. \
Gay men are generally self absorbed. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know that I fight my natural inclination toward selfishness on a daily basis. Various boyfriends have all, capital A-L-L, been similar. My last two relationships ended because one thought I should my every waking hour holding his hand through his post-college job search (I was supportive, but eventually became stressed by having to pay all the bills and rent). Another was stressed about work and life in general, but eve though I could relate to everything he was going through, he would never ever console me. I always had to try and cheer him up...meanwhile, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
R67, you just give and give and give, and what do they give in return? Nothing, that''s what.%0D\
You, R67, are a hero. A goddamn fucking hero.
Please ask your sister why straight women try to wreck people''s lives? That ought to put her in her place. There are worse things in the world than to be self absorbed.
Dammit, this thread is taking attention away from my thread on "The Trip." You people are monsters.
R69 I never said self-absorbed people are monsters. It was just an observation and a question! But look at all these responders getting their panties in a twist.
Gay people are self-absorbed because of an absence of religion/spirituality in their lives. My straight friends, most of whom are religious, are much, much more compassionate and concerned with others'' well-being. Gays are only concerned about going to the gym and finding their next meaningless trick.
I dont DL can handle that much truth in one thread r67 and r72!
That''s just not true, r72.
I think it''s just because most gay people have had to fight for themselves. We don''t always enjoy the best support networks and things can get kind of competitive when it comes to dating and stuff.
"Gay people are self-absorbed because of an absence of religion/spirituality in their lives. "%0D\
Actually, I''ve found that a lot of religious people are totally obsessed with their own salvation or the fear of damnation. Even if they attempt to do good, it''s to win brownie points from God for themselves, not because they care about anyone else. %0D\
So no, don''t bother talking up the compassionate superiority of religious people. You may be able to fool each other, but you don''t fool us.
"You gays are so self-absorbed!!!" = "I''m really not enjoying being a parent and dealing with my children''s needs."
More like "I ought to be paying attention to my spawn, but I''d rather be online denigrating gays," r77.
Gay people are not self-absorbed. Parents engage in ego-transference where they imagine that all their narcissism transferred to defending their spawn excuses all their selfishness.%0D
OP and his sister are from Alabama.
Your sister is absurd. She feels that the gay people she knows are "self-absorbed" because as a straight person she does not relate to gay people''s issues or worldview. All straight people are just as "self-absorbed" really, but because she probably shares their thoughts, and concerns, everything seems a lot more universal about them...but it''s all the same.\
This seems so common of late, having ignorant straights come right out and demand to know why gay people are so relentlessly focused on their own well being and issues that affect them directly, as if anyone in the in right mind wouldn''t be the same way!
MEN are self-absorbed. Men without child or families to provide for are very VERY self-absorbed. It''s all that testosterone. \
R82 You might be on to something there. Now that I think of it, lesbians don''t strike me as being nearly as self-absorbed as gay men do, so there may just be something to that testosterone theory of yours. Although I can think of a lot of self-centered gay guys who appear to be pretty low in the testosterone department, if you know what I mean.
I think gay men stick out as self-absorbed much more than straight men because, like women, we are more obsessed about our looks. In addition, rather than worshipping God, we worship the gym. we worship Prada. We worship cock. we worship the sun. We worship money.%0D\
The exact opposite is true. Gay people are selfless. I wish gay people were self-centered then things would actually progress in the gay community.
I think most openly gay men are more self-absorbed that closeted or bisexual men, especially those in big city Northeast and Pacific cities. I think heartland and mainstream same-sex oriented people with traditional American values tend to live a more humble, mainstream life that is not as hedonistic and amoral.
They are no more self absorbed than the larger population of humans as a whole. Period.
A good place for me to test this theory was the workplace.\
The straight bosses I have had made at least a pretense of showing interest in their reports'' career development, but my two gay male bosses made no pretense in being interested in anyone''s careers but their own. One would freak out all the time -- "You''d better do ______ cause MY ASS is on the line!" When I left he was shocked, completely not having noticed any of the signs. The other boss was more even-keeled but required a high level of service in every way. Others were interchangeable. Didn''t matter who did the work as long as it got done, so director-level reports were basically picking up his dry-cleaning. Had pictures of himself all over the office.\
Of the three gay men I have worked with closely, one was pretty considerate and down to earth, the other two ME-ME-ME nonstop. Suckers for flattery too. \
The straight people had their quirks, but for self-absorption could not match The Gays. \
So in my limited observation, yeah.
Austere, tight-lipped lesbian
R86 = deeply closeted Midwestern religious wacko.\
Yes, that''s what I call a good non self-absorbed life!!
Openly gay effeminate men tend to be the most self-absorbed, or perhaps because their interests and mannerisms are so unusual and contrary to mainstream society, they attract more societal scrutiny and attention.
R90, that is also not true- you are just finding a convenient way to make effeminate gay men less that you. I can think of many many examples of quiet, modest, worker bee gay men who are effeminate living anonymous modest lives, teachers, nurses, health techs in droves whose lives are devoted to the care well being and service of others.%0D
This thread is full of sad posts from prejudiced people seeking to, as alays, call out others as less than themselves or some version of themselves- a very bad habit, born out of insecurity and yes, prejudice. The cause of prejudice is insecurity and fear- and a need to make other less than. What makes the OP's sister even expert on the topic? What makes her even think she knows gay men when she sees them. %0D
Silly- look harder at the world, look for those who go through life more quietly, more anonymously. This is how most people, of all types live.%0D
And remember that every person who is different from you is not less than you, rather a variaion of yourself. Are they self centered- perhaps, more so this week than last week. You too at some point will be self centered, and at another time you will not.
Pious country mouse R86 and flamboyant hedonist R87 deserve eachother.
Yes Charlie, gay men are a bunch of saintly shrinking violets who toil for others far from the spotlight. Anyone who disagrees is just prejudiced and projecting.\
The truth bomb: a lot of people these days are self absorbed, no matter their gender, age, or sexual orientation. Why do you think reality television hit a nerve with today''s pop culture? Everyone''s the star of their own real-life reality show. It''s all about them, where they will meet their friends, what they did, what they think of something.You have to broadcast pointless minutia of your personal life 24/7. Do you honestly think that, as a culture, we''ve embraced Facebook, Twitter, etc, because we''re generally selfless except for those pesky hedonist gay men.
Wow the level of ignorance on here is astounding. 50% of catholic priests are not gay but you are 100% fucking retarded. This is a good example of people making excuses and generalizations when they know the truth. Saying Ll gay men aren't self absorbed is just as pretentious and odds are the arse who posted on here is the most self-absorbed, narcissistic, banned waiver of All. Not that there's anything wrong about that but just be honest with yourself. I've never met a LGBT person who wasn't more wrapped up in the idea of being LGBT more so than actually living. People want attention and popularity which is why they get offended so much because they're looking for attention.
Y'all are in denial
Speaking of self absorbed.... r95, do you realize you bumped this thread from 2011?
Aren't most people in our society self-absorbed? Judging by facebook, straight men and women are no less self-absorbed than gay men and women.
I would venture Western Society itself is self-absorbed. Your sister is probably just projecting, much like when a white person asks "why is there no white history month"?
R95 is living in a fantasy world. 50% of priests aren't gay? Well, no, they are pedophiles. But the rest of this is just silly nonsense.
Straight people go far, far beyond being 'self-absorbed.' For many of them, it's pure self-regard, almost self-romanticization and self-sanctification as a mode of life.
On the whole, gay people have a far broader experience of the world, can think about and understand a number of different perspectives, they take themselves less seriously, don't go for group-think religions etc
Fact: Most priests are lazy and don't want to get a real job.
Fact: OP's sister is a self-absorbed ho.
Fact: Gay people give more time and m oney to real charity than any group in society. Most of society's philanthropic institutions were started or funded by gays, which hets were indulging their dreams of dynastic succession or giving money only to their religious group in return for networking and career advancement.
Very simple - as a gay man, I've had to put a shield between myself and the casual homophobia of people like the OP's sister (and the self-hatred of things like OP).
When - and if - I feel I can trust you, then you've got a faithful friend for life.
Until then, you are background noise...
"Actually she's not. And I think she was asking a valid question. Truth hurts sometimes."
No, you and your sister are just bigots.
Straights are way more self-absorbed than gays.
"If you don't think gay people are largely self-centered, you are either living in denial or in some alternate universe. Lets get real here."
Let's get real here. If you don't think straights are largely self-centered, you are either living in denial or in some alternate universe.
Most people are self-absorbed. Facebook is nothing but attention-seeking. Gay people are more empathetic and compassionate than heteros generally.
A lot of straight girls aren't used to talking to men who don't respond to their presumed sexual allure.
What's so wrong with being a little self-absorbed? How is that casual homophobia when it's true! Stereotypes are there for a reason, darling.
OP, you're an idiot. How could we ever be as self-absorbed as straight people? Shitting out babies to reproduce themselves for one thing. Bridezillas - here's my twat, I'm getting married, stuff it with money on MY DAY!!
[quote]Gay people are self-absorbed because of an absence of religion/spirituality in their lives.
Yeah, all those straight people who founded GMHC, and ACT-UP.
Where do you get your "facts"? Many gay people are religious, even considering (since you are to afraid to) the vast majority of churches and religions who strenuously denounce their very existence! You sound like a brain-dead moron.
I took the PATH from Hoboken to Christoper Street with tons of ostenbsibly straight slutty looking 20-something girls going into the city to party. You don't know "self absorbed" until you have to wait on the platform for 20 minutes and listen to their inane conversations. Gay men don't have a monopoly on narcissism.
The election of Mark Sanford, the king of self-absorbtion, reminds us that straight men are the pinacle of self-absoorbtion - and straight people buy into it.
[quote] The election of Mark Sanford, the king of self-absorbtion, reminds us that straight men are the pinacle of self-absoorbtion
R110 will never be the pinnacle of good spelling.
You're so right, R111, but you're still a useless bitch.