In most categories, Consumer Reports rates BEHR the best interior latex paint.\
Anyone have experience with BEHR or other paints they think are top of the line? Any to avoid?
I recently painted a bedroom using BEHR and it went on easily and uniformly. However, I also got BEHR semi-gloss for the trim and have had a really tough time with it. The semi-gloss was so thick and gummy that I had to apply tiny amounts at a time using the softest-bristled brush I could to avoid leaving bristle streaks all over. I went and bought a can of Floetrol additive to help it go on more evenly, and it helped a small amount but there are still nasty bristle grooves everywhere and the Floetrol prevents it from drying quickly so I have to contend with lint and pet fur sticking to it before it's fully dried.
Basically, I'd recommend the BEHR paints if you're using the matte, eggshell or satin finishes but not the semi-gloss or gloss; find a different brand for your trim. Perhaps the Olympic brand from Lowes.
If you've got the money, Benjamin-Moore or Ecos organic paints are the high-end premium brands. Home Depot now carries something called Yolo which is apparently eco-friendly as well.
I'd stay away from Gliddon brand (from Home Depot) and Valspar brand (from Lowes). The samples that I tried on my walls were thin and went on blotchy and peeled.
Olympic brand (Lowes) paints have the widest color variety, imo. BEHR paints now have the option of primer added to the paint itself; costs more up front but saves you time and money priming.
One last recommendation: use Frog tape! That stuff is a million times better than standard blue painters tape or traditional masking tape. It really does stop all paint bleed.
good luck with your project, OP!
Go to a store that sells only paint and not one that sells a million other things.\
Duron is the best.
"I also got BEHR semi-gloss for the trim and have had a really tough time with it. The semi-gloss was so thick and gummy that I had to apply tiny amounts at a time using the softest-bristled brush I could to avoid leaving bristle streaks all over."%0D\
Could not agree with you more. Very difficult to apply.
Benjamin Moore has the best Oil based paint. Impervo is the market leader.%0D\
All the top homes are painted with Oil based paints only. The water based (latex) paints dry too quickly not leveling and giving that "Buckingham Palace" quality finish.%0D\
Ace Hardware brand latex is excellent and at good price too.%0D\
I''ve been using Behr for everything. Trim, ceilings, walls. Kitchen, bath, bedrooms, etc. I love it. I''m not a professional, but I try to be careful, and Behr is easy to use. It''s easy to clean up too.
All latex (water based) paint manufactures use the same polymer bases for paint: acrylic, polyvinyl acetate and styrene and combinations. For example styrene-acrylic co-polymer emulsion is used to make opaque paints. Acrylic is used for gloss and water repelling qualities in exterior paints. The more acrylic the glossier tougher and and more expensive the paint is to make. Manufacturers'' buy the polymer bases from the same companies. The primary differences among lies in how much of the polymer they use, what colorants and additives they use. \
The point is, there really isn''t a huge difference in paint quality from premium brand to brand: these brands use the most polymer. Cheaper latex paints generally have less polymer in them. There is a lot of hype about paints. Don''t believe it.
I''ve never painted anything in my life. However, the painters I''ve hired refuse to use anything but Porter Paints.
What kind of paint is best for kitchen cabinets? Would it be pointless to even try going from a dark brown walnut to a light beige?
[quote]All the top homes are painted with Oil based paints only. The water based (latex) paints dry too quickly not leveling and giving that "Buckingham Palace" quality finish.\
Hyacinth Bucket, is that you?
I insist on lacquer.
When I want that Buckingham Palace finish I ask Liz to do the painting. Just like Marie Antoinette she enjoys playing peasant from time-to-time.
[quote]What kind of paint is best for kitchen cabinets? Would it be pointless to even try going from a dark brown walnut to a light beige?\
I am assuming the dark walnut is actual wood grain. Painting over dark wood grain requires a lot of patience. \
You will have to remove the exiting finish and prepare the surface by sanding, so you need to remove the doors from cabinets and all the hardware before you start . \
Once you have a clean sanded finish, use a white or light colored grain filling latex wood primer. \
Then use a 100% acrylic latex paint. Glossier paints have more acrylic and provide more durability.
Latex is toxic. Believe it or not our bodies can process alkyd fumes, not latex. Alkyd (oil based) is safer even though it reeks. Lacquer requires a stay at a hotel.
I''m a total convert to California Paint. It covers everything, goes on rich and smooth. I''ve tried Glidden and Valspar - absolute crap and needed multiple coats. Both were streaky and just awful. I''ve used Behr and Benjamin Moore and both were ok but fall far short of the California.
Farrow & Ball is my favorite paint, for choice and depth of color, ease of application, and end appearance, but if you want soemthing cheaper and more readily available and aren''t very concerned with color choice, I''d use Benjamin Moore. %0D\
I used Behr for painting some spaces I didn''t much care about, like the inside of a shed, and it was alright, though not the smoothest application.%0D\
[quote]What kind of paint is best for kitchen cabinets? Would it be pointless to even try going from a dark brown walnut to a light beige?%0D\
R12 offers good advice -- it''s all down to careful (and time-consuming) preparation. If the surface is already very smooth --no visible wood grain or paint brush strokes-- it''s much easier; still, it requires sanding and a primer coat. Rolling or (better) spraying will result in the smoothest surface if that''s the goal. Some body shops or woodworking shops can paint the doors, leaving you to paint the relatively easy cabinet frames.%0D\
Sand between coatings (even primer coatings) with a fine sanding block.\
Thanks for the tips, guys. I especially like the idea of taking the doors to a woodwork or body shop to be sprayed. One of my biggest concerns is that a paint job over dark wood might end up looking tacky and home-spun. The old finish is in relatively good shape, so I don''t want a redo that ends up worse off than the original! My main objection is the darkness of the room and that walnut seems a bit 70''s to me.
Not if it is primed properly, r17- unless you are talking about knotty pine.
Is it a mistake to paint the kitchen in a matte finish?\
I do cook, but not a lot. I thought I''d do the entire house in a flat finish this time, but I''m not sure about the kitchen.\
R1, thanks for the advice....you other guys, too. I''ve never heard of or seen some of the paints you''ve mentioned, and don''t know if they''re all offered here.\
I''m pretty sure I''m going with the BEHR matte finish.
[quote]Is it a mistake to paint the kitchen in a matte finish?\
Yes, it would be a mistake. Matt finish paints don''t have enough acrylic in them to withstand washing off spatters or grime. \
If you don''t want glossy at least use an eggshell finish with 100% acrylic. Semi-gloss is more resilient still.
[quote]Latex is toxic. Believe it or not our bodies can process alkyd fumes, not latex. \
Even if that were true about latex, which it is not, latex paints have no latex in them. So that would not be a problem.\
All solvent based paints (alkyd paints) release Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs). Clean up with solvents requires special disposal of the waist.
[quote]My main objection is the darkness of the room and that walnut seems a bit 70''s to me.\
Walnut is a classic hardwood wood for fine furniture and cabinets. It''s use transcend decades. If you''ve got it flaunt it. \
Instead of painting the walnut cabinets beige, use a mix of bright colors with the same color value and intensity as the walnut cabinets on the walls, counter top and back splash.\
For work lights on the counter tops and to lighten the room, add LED fixtures below the upper cabinets. \
Beige painted cabinets are for society matrons who only enter their kitchens to give the week''s menus to "Cookie".
Always use glossy oil paint on your wood trim.
[quote]Clean up with solvents requires special disposal of the waist.\
[quote]but if you want soemthing cheaper and more readily available and aren''t very concerned with color choice, I''d use Benjamin Moore.\
Any paint company can make any color you want. \
When you buy your paint, they make it for you.\
Impossible to keep every color in stock.
[quote]Any paint company can make any color you want. %0D\
Not entirely, R25. I recommended Farrow & Ball for its depth of color, a rich, dense quality as though built up of semi-translucent layers of compound pigments that make colors more variable according to light conditions. Any run-of-the-mill paint store can match such a color from a high quality paint, but only a surface level, with its opacity means it will lack the depth and variability. %0D\
It''s akin to a piece of old wood furniture that has a patina of finish from years of polishing and use and waxing, giving an intensity and depth to the wood color and grain. By comparison, a new reproduction, no matter how artful, will have a "thinner" surface look to its finish. %0D\
Of course few people aside from me care.
Yeah, I know: Mary!
Ditto the love for Farrow & Ball. The colors are beautiful. Have any readers here used the broad spectrum paints, like Ellen Kennon, for instance?
[quote] special disposal of the waist.\
You sound fat [italic]and[/italic] ignorant.
Valspar - Lowe''s
[quote] =paid shill.\
No, I''m an architect who has studied the composition and properties of paints.
Well, then you should know Latex is toxic, r3; a Chemist you are not.
[quote] Well, then you should know Latex is toxic, [R3]; a Chemist you are not.\
Some people have allergic reactions to latex, but it''s not inherently toxic. \
Last and most important, there is no latex in latex paint.
I meant r32, forgive me.
Farrow & Ball is the only paint I use in my house.
Thanks guys.....I''m now obsessed with $85.00 per gallon imported paint!%0D\
I found the two perfect colors I''ve been searching for months for.....in less than 5 minutes.
[quote] but it''s not inherently toxic.\
[quote] I''m now obsessed with $85.00 per gallon imported paint!\
Worth every penny if you''re sure about the color.
Behr is absolute shite - I believe Consumer Reports is either not qualified to rate paint - or paid off. Worst experience painting I''ve ever had was with Behr. The only paint line where I had the paint ROLL OFF the wall back onto my roller after a few passes. The wall was impeccably prepped and primed before painting, so it wasn''t a prework issue.\
The two best mid-price paints I''ve use is either Manor Hall by Pittsburg or Sherwin Williams Cashmere
R38 etc. \
Why don''t you provide a link to a peer reviewed scientific or medical study that has determined that there is latex in latex paint and that it is toxic? \
[quote] latex in latex paint\
That''s your myth, not mine.
"However, I also got BEHR semi-gloss for the trim and have had a really tough time with it."%0D\
Thanks R1. You''ve made me feel less hopeless! I''m not using BEHR, but I''ve found some paints and/or some colors just about impossible to use.
OP/R19 - I''ve used tinted ceiling white (very flat, not washable) on the kitchen ceiling. Tinted wall paint (less flat, washable) on most of the walls. And I''m using the tinted paint that I''m also using in the bathroom (scrubable, anti-mould) on the walls behind the stove, hotplates, sink.
My handman was here the other day doing some outdoor tasks and as he has done a lot of painting over the years (and his dad was a house painter), I asked him if the temperature was too cold for me to undercoat some internal doors. The result was that he gave me a demo of how to paint a door, as well as some general painting tips!%0D
Temperature: Likely to have more problems with temperature when using oil-based paint, or when painting outside. With acrylic paint indoors, as long as the temperature is above 0 degrees Celcius, it's probably going to be okay. Acrylic paint can be a problem if the edges of whatever you're painting starts to dry before you've finishing painting that area (so try not to have too many unfinished edges (particularly part-way down a vertical section) and watch out for things like the sun shining onto the area that's being painted).%0D
Runs and sags (brush painted areas): As well as due to things like poor preparation and overloading of the brush, it can be due to the edges drying (and you going back to try to fix it!). Acrylic paint does not sand well - so if something looks really bad, you might just have to scrape off the paint (apparently it remains soft for up to 4 weeks) and start again!%0D
Masking tape/Blue tape: He only uses tape at the bottom of a wall when the floor is vanished. If you aren't going to remove door handles (apparently some of them are TERRIBLE to remove and re-fit!), stick a small piece of masking tape over the top edge of the handle set and a small piece of the top edge of the handle%0D
Rollers: Different rollers are used for walls/ceiling and doors - so ask for advice. My door rollers have a very, very short pile and are much smoother than the wall/ceiling rollers. You can also get nooks and crammies rollers - very narrow sleeves (looks like a tampon!) that fits onto a wire frame.%0D
Painting doors (acrylyic paint): Sand and clean top. Wipe down. Apply tape to the handles. %0D
The following method applies to undercoat and topcoats. %0D
1. Narrow vertical back edge of door (hinge edge) - paint with brush.%0D
2. Back of door - With a paint brush, paint any bits that won't be able painted with a roller (e.g. around handle, bottom inch, next to door frame). Starting in the middle of the door, paint with roller - roughly one-two rollers of paint per side.%0D
3. Narrow vertical front edge of door - paint with roller%0D
4. Front of door - As per back of door.%0D
5. Return to the back of the door - Roll again, WITHOUT APPLYING ANY MORE PAINT TO THE ROLLER (the roller should still be damp and the back of the door should still be damp)%0D
6. Return to the narrow vertical front edge of the door - Roll again, WITHOUT APPLYING ANY MORE PAINT TO THE ROLLER%0D
7. Return to the front of the door - Roll again, WITHOUT APPLYING ANY MORE PAINT TO THE ROLLER%0D
(the re-rolling basically helps to get better coverage and a move even coverage).%0D
R45, very cool of you to share that info! Have to paint my apartment soon and those tips will come in handy.
There is a huge difference in paints. A lot of them are "watered down" to rip off consumers. A $25/gallon paint that takes three coats to look like a $50/gallon paint is actually costing you $75/gallon! The base may be similar but there are different types of dyes for the polymers, plus additives that resist visible and UV-band radiation, variants in solvents, binders, etc. You'd have to have a special type of head injury (and possibly be legally blind) to be dense enough not to notice the difference. Good Lord!
I see folks out there blaming HD for the lack of quality in Behr products, but long before they arrived in my region I had the dis-satisfaction of painting almost an entire house with their paint. It was watery and drippy going on, and took multiple coats just to cover the sheet-rock color. After it dried it was chalky and shed with every touch. By the time I moved out, the paint had worn back down to the sheet-rock from just our clothes rubbing against the wall on the way up the stairs. Total rubbish!
I also like fine Farrow & Ball, but I also like Fine Paints of Europe. I particularly like their high gloss enamel paint. The finish really is like glass.
eggshell finish on most walls and ceilings
semi-gloss finish on kitchen and bathroom walls and ceilings
high-gloss OIL paint on windows and doors and trim.
I have use Valspar quite a lot. It takes a solid three coats, but seems easier to apply than Behr. I've had the problem with Behr going on lumpy too. My walls are very textured so that makes it even worse, but I've primered these walls so many times that the walls are pretty sealed now.
I read that CR liked Behr and I was really shocked. It took forever to cover, coat after coat. Behr has some good colors though.
Fuck you very much to the person who recommended Farrow & Ball. Do you know how much godammn money it is going to cost me to paint my loft after falling for those beautiful colors? Fuck me!
[quote]I have use Valspar quite a lot. It takes a solid three coats, but seems easier to apply than Behr.
The only Valspar I've ever used are their spraycans of paint, but they're fantastic. There's no going back to Krylon or the other rattle can paints after using Valspar.
Since we are in the political season, I would recommend Diamond Vogel paints for all those right wingers. The Dutch from NW Iowa love this paint that is made by right wing zealots.
Benjamin Moore has been the American standard for quality paint for years. Yes there are imported and rare paints of better quality, but BM is still very good and available everywhere. It is better than Behr and I have been painting for decades.
Glidden and Sherwin Williams are and have always been questionable quality products for years.
3 main things you want:
1. 1 coat coverage (which you will never get with any paint on a porous or very old surface without priming)
2. Splatter free roll on.
3. Adhesion to all surfaces. Some paints don't stick and load back onto the roller.
For dark colors, stick to factory tinted. Store tinted darker colors are drippy and cover very poorly. Colors like Red, Navy Blue, Yellow are made that way in the factory and cover fine.
[quote]Latex is toxic.
That's what all the barebackers say.
Valspar has recently started adding primer to all their exterior paint (not sure about the interior.)
I paint murals and I primarily use Valspar or Porter. Behr tends to require more coats.
Ugh, I've got to echo the complainst about Behr: a terrible experience. Gloppy and did indeed come back off on the roller, making the job last much longer than it should have.
We actually like Sherwin Williams Superpaint. It worked really well for us, and we recently painted the entirely of our new townhouse.
I just used Behr on my den room walls and it was the easiest application I've ever done. One coat and that was it. Easy to clean and looks even. At one point I painted a few lines next to it using Valspar but didn't like the way it looked. I repainted that section with the Behr color and it matched to the already two day old dry sections. It looks like I never painted anything else there.
Used Valspar in another room and it took more then one coat. It was fine but I'm not as impressed with it as I was with Behr.
Valspar does have that program called Love your color. You can get a refund of the color you don't like after buying a color you do like from them.
Benjamin Moore's Aura paint is the best product for the do it yourselfer.
It's self priming and 1-2 coats and you're done.
You can also be done quicker because you can put on the second coat in an hour, most paints require 4-8 hours dry time between coats.
Behr is the worst shit I ever had the misfortune to use, Michael's craft paint would probably give you a smoother application than Behr's watered down shit.
r1 here again. The BEHR satin that I used went on beautifully for me with no problems; like I said earlier it was only the semi-gloss/gloss BEHR that wasn't working. I opted instead to use Sherwin Williams enamel semi-gloss for my doors and trim, and it worked beautifully.
I just checked out the Fine Paints of Europe site that someone recommended up thread and damn, those gloss paints really do look like glass. I'm sure they cost a ton, but I'll keep that brand in mind for future projects all the same.
Not sure why someone bumped this thread after more than a year since the original OP is probably long done with his project by now, but whatever.
I have used all sorts of products and found that you can get the same properties from all brands if you compare the same types of products the real and only difference is the price and how much support I get from the seller. A example would be Behr Premium Plus and Sherwin-Williams SuperPaint both are primer and paint in one but at Home Depot it took forever to find someone to help and I did not like the color and they did nothing to fix it at Sherwin-Williams they ask to help me as I walked into the store and they they matched the color I wanted and I even bought to much and they changed the extra gallon to a new color for free. I say if you need lumber,plants, or tools go to a big box stores like Home Depot if you want paint go to a real paint store like ICI Glidden, Benjamin Moore, or Sherwin-Williams
pratt and lambert hands down best
Asking for advice at Home Depot? You should not be doing any home renovation projects if you are that naive. Home Depot is the Walmart of home improvement stores, with the "expert minimum wage staff" to match.
Worked in the biz several years. Glidden has always made crap paint, so did ICI before it merged with Glidden.
Benjamin Moore for Oils - Impervo is freakishly good.
Acrylics, Behr (expensive) if you are in Canada, Canadian Tire Premiere store brand is just as good as Behr at 1/2 the price.
Para if you spray.
Everything else is a mish-mash of sorta good or not until you go to Europe and them, you find the genuinely exceptional stuff at insane prices (3-4 times Behr). German made SILVERIUM is SO GOOD, it makes people want to become painters.
>>I thought I'd do the entire house in a flat finish this time
Horrible, horrible mistake! Use flat ONLY on ceilings. If you're not willing to do your kitchen (or bathroom) in semi-gloss at least use an eggshell.