- Thanks for starting this thread.\
Just watched The Impossible Astronaut. What a mindfuck. \
Nice touch for the Elisabeth Sladen dedication at the start of the episode.\
The Silents are scary. Did I encounter one? don''t remember.\
Did Amy shoot her own kid from the future at the end?\
Who''s the father of Amy''s kid?\
I think it''s one of the best mystery set ups in recent TV history. Wonder if part of the set up is about the Doctor being able to resurrect himself indefinitely?\
What a great moment when River tells Rory about what she fears most about her final encounter with the Doctor.
- I love that BBC America is airing it tonight. No more long waits between UK and US airings. I hope BBCA airs the Elisabeth Sladen special.
- I liked that scene River/Rory too. Very touching. \
While I enjoyed the epidode overall, I still cannot get comfortable with Matt Smith. What others find quirky, I consider overacting. Coming from Tennant and Eccelston I find the Doctor is merely a caricature right now.
- It was okay and I was satisfied with it, but for it being the season open, I was somehow expecting a lot more. About halfway into the show, I finally realized that the actor playing the rogue FBI agent was the same guy who played the lawyer on "Battlestar Galactica". The actor playing Nixon looked just like that, an actor playing the president but the actual person. As for the action itself, I don''t buy into the whole "we can''t tell the Doctor about his future because it will destroy the universe". Since when did that become a law in the Whoniverse?
- I am loving this series and Matt Smith.
Cant wait for next Saturday
- Great premiere. Much better than the Christmas episode.
[quote] The Silents are scary. Did I encounter one? don't remember.
Are these aliens related to "the silence will fall"? The crack in the wall causes people to forget, The Silents cause people to forget...So they've been down there in tunnels for hundreds of years, can they time travel? They were in 2011 and 1969.
The forgetting business reminds me of Buffy - when the humans kept forgetting that Ben is Glory and Glory is Ben, no matter how many times they were told or witnessed the transformation.
Time can be rewritten. The Eleventh Doctor is not going to have that same face for two hundred years, ending up dead on a beach at 1103. I can't believe one regeneration would last that long (without being killed at some point).
Other stuff: The Easter island statues joke about Matt Smith's face. The Doctor's line about two of three founding fathers fancying him.
I must be really out of the loop, I didn't hear about Sladen's death 'til I saw that dedication at the beginning of the episode, very surprised, she looked young for her age (plastic surgery), but still, her death was very unexpected.
- Would someone find out if Matt Smith is uncut please?
- R3 I agree. For me, he doesn''t fit the role nearly as well as his predecessors. \
R7 If he''s British and not Jewish, he''s almost certainly uncut.
- I think Matt Smith is a big improvement on David Tennant.\
Did they also have a dedication to Nicholas Courtney?
- ''Now there''s a spoiler for you!'' May be one of my favorite New Who lines ever.\
Though I also loved, ''The legs, the nose and Mrs. Robinson.''\
It''s both cool and sad to be on the other side of one or River''s spoilers, because if she can keep that kind of secret without hardly batting an eyelash, it makes you wonder what other secrets she''s keeping. And the scene with Rory was a great moment.\
I''ve seen people debating that Canton saying it was illegal to get married was implying that he was gay. I didn''t really take it that way, though
- Has there been any backlash from Doctor Who viewers to Matt Smith being in a gay film earlier this year?
- R11, Brits don''t care about that.
- It was a great episode, and if you saw the DOCTOR WHO CONFIDENTIAL after, you know that nothing is going to be answered fully in the next show. Moffat has set up the arc for the whole series. It was that the older actor playing the FBI agent in the present is the younger actors father in real life-nice touch. I also got the gay vibe from the "illegal marriage thing". \
I am actually thinking that the Amy''s baby grows up to be River? Any thoughts on that?
- Can Rory even get Amy pregnant since he''s an android?\
I read somewhere that this season won''t finish this year but early next year, because they somehow break the season in two parts in order to make room for the fourthcoming Merlin season, right?
- Rory''s not an android anymore, that got undone.
- r15, hu? when?
- I don''t like Smith either...phony..over-acting to the max...\
Plus he looks like he has Encephalitis.\
I hate those inside Dr. Who bits during the episode. Why must EVERYTHING be deconstructed...even during its airing???\
I watched one because I thought it had come back on the air and Smith was just a shallow posing nothing...\
"Stetsons are glorious!"
- [quote]Plus he looks like he has Encephalitis.\
Isn''t Encephalitis a brain disease? How do you LOOK like you have a brain disease?
- Smith is just carrying on Tennants legacy of gurning and overacting. David Tennant is to blame for taking Eckleston''s brilliant re-imagining of the Doctor and turning it into a panto-level kiddie farce.
- It''s supposed to be broad science fiction family entertainment. There''s no space for subtlety in outer space, Sarah Jane.
- I liked David Tennant''s over acting, but I also like Matt Smith. He brings a combination of a childlike mischievous Doctor and a genius Doctor. Yes, his head is weird and he had a huge chin. He''s also got that great head of hair.%0D\
I am so grateful that BBC America is airing these the same day as the are airing in the UK. %0D\
Moffatt is a master story teller and I think this season''s story is going to be grand. I think if more Americans watched this show it would become a blockbuster in the US as people would soon be hooked.
- Over acting doesn''t begin to describe Smith. But it''s all of them, they''re all over-acting and given the rather bad dialogue they have to work with, it''s probably not their fault.\
Just not a very good show any more.
- So, I''m guessing we already seen River''s most dreaded moment when she was introduced in that library rescue mission two part episode? IIRC she took it rather well back then that the doctor didn''t recognize her.\
Love the little moment of River and the "old" doctor synchronizing their diaries and mentioning an adventure with some fish.\
Maybe I''m too much of a Mary, but I think Alex Kingston deserves an opening credit for her cougar character Mrs. Robinson ... uhm, River Song.
- re: River possibly being Amy''s child. Hasn''t been mentioned that River is from somewhere in the very far future, the 3000s or something. If that were the case, Amy''s child would either have a VERY lone life-span or she would have to give birth in some timey-wimey fashion.\
re: Rory and Amy not being able to have children. As a result of Big Bang 2, everything we saw last season never happened and was reset. Rory never died, was never turned into an Auton.\
I''m waiting to see the Silence/Silents connection. I wouldn''t be surprised if it were a false lead and had there was nothing connecting the two.\
The controls seen in the underground tunnels, they are the same ones, or at least similar to, the ones in "The Lodger", right?
- [quote]Rory never died, was never turned into an Auton.\
Oh, I thought Rory was an Auton from the start and there never was a human version. But to be honest how the last season was resolved went way over my head.
- They tried to cram too much in. I think they are now writing for the American audience and I am upset about that.
- I'm not too crazy about catering too much to the US either. I am afraid that Torchwood is doing it too this year. And I have a feeling that US viewers won't even appreciate it. I think part of the appeal is that these shows are cleverly written british shows. That's what they want to see. But maybe I am all wrong and it's just the first two season openers.%0D
Anyway, I have several issues with the new Who. Some issues are very superficial, for example why is the show visually blue all over the place? Doesn't make sense to me and I'm getting tired of the look. The other thing is the stories and the acting. 'nuff said about Smith. I think portraying the character more serious wouldn't hurt, even if Eleven is supposed to be a goof-ball. The stories could be more character driven. That's just my preference, I know others prefer plot driven stories. But while Moffat is great in elaborating twist and turns in plots, I am getting tired of this too. Blink and you lost it. I wonder what kids get out of this? There are other ways to make stories compelling and interesting, like emotional challenges for the charaters. I am not advocating a dumbed down story, just a more even mix of plot twist and emotion.
- At least now I know why they killed off Crowley on Supernatural.
- Rory was shot and killed in the episode with the Silurians halfway through the last series. His body was then taken by the ''crack in time and space'' which had the effect of wiping him from history, so Amy forgot him.\
In the series finale Rory re-appears, but it turns out the Autons (one of the enemy species working togethet to bring down the Doctor) had created an Auton Rory in order to get close to the Doctor and Amy so he could kill Amy and ensure the Doctor was imprisoned. But Auton Rory had some of the real Rory''s feelings, and tried to overcome what he was built to do. He wasn''t able to stop himself from shooting Amy, but the Doctor put her inside the Pandorica (prison box) so it would keep her alive and Rory guarded it for a thousand years. Then when the entire universe was re-set, the events of the series never happened, but they still experienced them. So Rory remembers being an Auton and guarding Amy, even though it never happened within the current ''real'' timeline.
- Matt Smith has a nice ass
- Ooof. Those outfits.
- Can''t wait to see how Neil Gaiman spins it.
- I don't see them catering to the "American" audience much at all. The show is still so very British in so many ways. One thing that I don't think a lot of people "get" is this: for all the monsters and bad stuff, this is basically a kids show, meant to be watched by families. It is shown in the UK at six o'clock in the evening, when most families are sitting down to tea or dinner. Yes, they nod to the adults quite often in the writing, but it certainly doesn't break any barriers in the way that Torchwood does.It is meant to be fun and scary, but not unnerving. The writing, the acting, the sets (even though they are much more expensive and well done nowadays) are MEANT to be cheesy and goofy. That is part of the DOCTOR WHO tradition. That being said, all in all, the writing, the acting, the effects are far superior to almost anything else on television, British or American, these days. They have a loyal audience who they know will abandon them if they deviate in any way from expectations-and those expectations are very high. I think this opener set the bar VERY high for the rest of the season. Let's see if they can maintain that.
- Some timey-wimey stuff is going to happen and it''s going to be the Doctor in the astronaut uniform killing himself on the beach.
- Some of these episodes with The Doctor, Amy, Rory and River Song are getting a bit tiring.
- That wonderful melodrama owes a lot of thanks to Tom Baker - an adult who took his ridiculous role of entertaining children very seriously. \
The frenetic pacing appeals to children - their speed and energy paired with admirable control and mastery.\
It worries me that they off this specific doctor - foreshadowing an end to the series after the Matt Smith run?
- Oh, they killed Ten at least once. \
Burning the body worries me more.
- I was never a fan of Tennant''s Doctor. In fact, I dropped out of that series after a few episodes, and to this day haven''t seen most of those episodes. He just doesn''t appearl to me at all, and doesn''t at all seem like "The Doctor".%0D\
Matt Smith is, imho, the best doctor ever. LOVE him. Christopher Eccleston is my second favorite, and Tom Baker my third.%0D\
- Doctor Who bump!%0D
- I have a crush on Rory Williams!! Amy Pond is also starting to make me question my sexuality. There''s something so sexy and feisty about her. Maybe I just want to be her.
- I''m in lust/love with Rory too!%0D
- Is Rory uncut?
- R42... probably.%0D
- [quote] I was never a fan of Tennant''s Doctor. In fact, I dropped out of that series after a few episodes, and to this day haven''t seen most of those episodes. He just doesn''t appearl to me at all, and doesn''t at all seem like "The Doctor".%0D\
So you haven''t seen most of the revamped version''s S2, S3, and S4 episodes? Did you see Blink? That is a fantastic Doctor-lite episode where Tennant is hardly in it. And in the Family of Blood two-parter Tennant plays a different character for most of it, not the Doctor.%0D\
I''ve only watched the new Who, and I don''t let the change in actors prevent me from watching an episode - new doctor, new companion, whatever. I''m more concerned with the changes in story-telling since Moffat took over S5. And the idea that the S5 finale re-set the universe, I''m not sure if everything in S5 really happened.
- R40 and R41 have you seen this youtube short starring Arthur Darvill? %0D\
it''s pretty good and Arthur''s performance is terrific. i guess he did this before he landed Dr Who. he''s a really good actor! and very sexy, playing a guy nothing like rory. he looks good with facial hair:
- I hate the girl who plays Amy Pond she ruins the while thing for me. I want them to bump her off and replace her with Riversong
- Amy being pregnant could be her way out as companion where she and Rory are living a regular family life with their baby.
A spoiler being circulated online says that in a future episode, River Song refers to Amy as "mother". If it turns out to be true, I think fans will be really annoyed. Also, if true, it asks the question, who is the father? It had better be Rory; if not and it causes Rory and Amy to break up, I think it further anger fans.
- What''s with dissing the Americans as second-rate viewers? We are fervent fans. The only thing we lack is inexperience with the old episodes, and we can''t help that. Oh, and sometimes I need to look things up, like Jammy Dodgers. ...and even then I bought some so I could eat them during this episode.
- Amy will be the first companion to die. Rory is going to die half way through the season.
- R50, are you talking about this new series? The Doctor has already had one companion die.
I throughly enjoyed seeing Crowley in that episode, althouth I now long for a Doctor Who-Supernatural crossover.\
Also his voice is to die for. Either I didn''t notice it in Supernatural or he put it on for the role, but whoooo boy!
- Excited for this series already.\
Who is River Song? Need to know.
- I didn''t watch Season 5, but I get the impression that River was his wife or lover. Whatever happened to his daughter, BTW?
- Tennant is engaged to the actress who played his daughter in "The Doctor''s Daughter". Her character hasn''t returned to the series since that one episode. Would be interesting if she showed up again.
I think they''re having a baby too, although I for the life of me can''t remember where I heard that. Still, it would be less strange for her to come back now, rather than during the Tennant era considering ''underlying sexual tension'' is probably not something they would go for...
- [quote]Rory is going to die half way through the season.%0D\
Not our Rory!%0D\
- As usual there was too much music, too much plot and not enough exposition, but I''ve given up on ever seeing an intelligent Dr. Who again. It''s entertaining enough for what it is, and Smith is miles better than his predecessor, who was OTT most of the time. Moffat is a vast improvement on RTD most of the time as well.\
''Family show'' or not, however, if they don''t start writing more adult epsiodes with hardly any stupid fucking DER DER DER DER DER DER music like say the very clever ''what is real'' episode from last season then it will die a death.\
We need a Doctor over 35 again, and we need it soon or Dr. Who is doomed.
- You may have a point, ayb. The original Doctors had more screen presence and authority to me. I like Doctors like Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee and Tom Baker.\
I grew up as a kid watching them, and it''s hard for me to relate to a Doctor who is younger than I am.
- I agree when you ask for a more "older persona" (= older Doctor). Not for the reason you state though. I just don't think that Smith is a great actor, especially not compared to many previous Who-actors. But I think memory fools you when you ask for going back to adult episodes. I don't think you had a lot of them back in the days either. I was watching some Tom Baker episodes recently and I found them extremely simple, certainly not mind challenging. %0D
Besides, I remember some very intelligent episodes from the Eccleston year and the Tennant era. Remember 'Dalek' where Nine is facing his demons being confronted with his actions during the time war? Or Ten when he is challenged by Donna to save at least a few people in Pompeji? That was good stuff, in my opinion, very intelligent and yet entertaining TV. "Blink" didn't have much in an epic sense. But it was very touching and had an emotional impact. Same goes for the Library two-parter. There was a glimpse of all that last season in the episode where Rory died and Amy asked the Doctor to bring him back. But that's about it. (And Smith didn't really deliver anything in that particular scene.)
- "I was watching some Tom Baker episodes recently and I found them extremely simple, certainly not mind challenging. "\
Some of the ones in the middle of his ear were silly, but those at the beginning and end were fairly dark and thought-provoking. There are also some good Pertwee stories in Season 7 (a precursor to The X-Files) as well as some of the Hartnell historicals like "The Aztecs"
- I''ve come to the conclusion that I find Amy, Rory, and River Song far more interesting than I find the Doctor.
The Voice of the Night
- River Song is somewhat interesting (the actress who plays her played Ben-Hur''s mother in the new version), but she can become tiring. And the same goes for Rory and Amy.\
The show is becoming a bit too much like a soap opera.
- [quote]River Song is somewhat interesting (the actress who plays her played Ben-Hur''s mother in the new version), but she can become tiring.%0D\
I agree with that, but the first thing she did after getting out of jail again was to shoot at the Doctor, and that''s aces for me.
The Voice of the Night
- Isn''t it telling that the season opened with the Doctor being drawn nude and (what looks like) nude under a woman''s gown?\
They make the Doctor more sexual with Matt Smith playing him. All that flirting with River Song would be unthinkabale with any Doctor prior #9.\
It''s a new world and a new audience out there.
- One thing the Doctor is not supposed to be is sexual
- Can''t stand that old broad R Song! Hated her on ER as well.\
Miss the Doctor''s long coat.\
Rory is a dog and has ''tard face. Ick!\
Not a big fan of Moffat, as he really effed up Sherlock. \
Why the hell am I watching Doctor Who?
Just decided I won''t
- [quote]They make the Doctor more sexual with Matt Smith playing him. %0D\
But Matt Smith isn''t in the same universe as sexy. I truly don''t get it.
The Voice of the Night
- One of the things that made Doctor Who unique was the character of the Doctor and the fact that he is not sexual. We don''t need to have romance or sex in Doctor Who - we can find that in any other show
- The previous Doctor did fell in love with his companion Rose, so it didn''t start with Matt Smith''s interpretation of the Doctor.
- I know, R70. But that was part of the revived series. I meant that it wasn''t part of the previous 30 years of the show until 2005.
- [quote]But Matt Smith isn''t in the same universe as sexy. I truly don''t get it.%0D\
You don''t. I do. Of all the doctors, he''s the sexiest. There''s just something about him. He isn''t classically handsome or sexy or anything. But the attitude, the way he moves, the intelligence... I would totally love to make out with him. And that''s not a thought I''ve EVER had about ANY Doctor before.%0D\
- I agree. From all the Doctor I''d totally do hyper Matt Smith.
- When did the Doctor fall in love with Rose? They became great friends, as tight as it can get - in a platonic sense. But when did either express a sexual interest in the other? Sure, Rose made him dance, but that really was it. It never became more than the hint of the metaphor.
- Tennant is more my speed.%0D\
Maybe Peter Davison when he was young, too.
The Voice of the Night
- When Peter Davison played the Doctor, didn''t the producers contemplate a romance with Tegan (the stewardess companion)? I don''t remember anything overt, but I thought the producers wanted the audience to wonder.
- Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were a couple for a good portion of their time together, and particularly the Paris episodes the Doctor and Romana are very couply.
The Voice of the Night
- I liked how they played OFF the relationship between 10 and Donna, starting with \
10: "Look, I just a mate..."\
Donna: "You want to mate?! Not with me sunshine!"\
10: "A mate! I want A mate!"\
Donna: "Oh... okay then."\
and then continuing all through her run ("No, we''re not a couple.").
- R74 is being sarcastic, right?%0D\
I didn''t hate the greatest love of all storyline between The Doctor and Rose the way others did. But I much preferred the friendship that he had with Donna, as well as his relationship with Captain Jack. Martha''s pining after the Doctor was uncomfortable at times. Haven''t decided yet about Amy.
- Favorite companions of the new series:\
1. Donna (perhaps the near-perfect blend of adventure, platonic relationship and emotion)\
2. Captain Jack (who doesn''t like a bit of flirting?; adventuresome and while I think he always suggests he was into the Doctor, i think he valued the friendship too much to actually give into it)\
3. Rory (still early, but I''m liking him more as the seasons progress)\
4. Amy (same with Rory, but her attacking the the Doctor in her bedroom in one episode was very OFF)\
5. Rose (too lovey at times, but had some good action moments)\
6. Martha (shame, the show could have done so much with her but she descended into a love-struck companion who settled for Mickey)\
7. Mickey (never quite fit in until he went to Pete''s World)
- Donna is my favorite too.
The Voice of the Night
- I thought they really mishandled Donna and downright castrated her in the end with all that "Under no circumstances she''s allowed to remember or her head will explode!" plot (which in a way they seem to get recycled in this season) and just leaving her that way for, like, forever.\
But Donna was probably the best introduction ever in a TV show.
- One of the best Donna scenes when when she and the Doctor were preparing to leaving Pompeii on Volcano Day and she said to him, not in a mean or cruel way but as a matter of fact, "you have all this power and you won''t stop to help that family, let alone one person". I think she may have also mentioned how she wanted to return home because she couldn''t live with herself and that''s when the Doctor piloted the TARDIS back.
- r55 and 56, Tennant and the actress who played Jenny, who is also 5 Doctor Peter Davison''s daughter, had a baby girl named Olive last month. Though apparently they were broken up when she found out she was pregnant and were pressured to announce an engagement. Very sad and strange situation.
- Captain Jack wasn''t just "into" the Doctor....he loved the Doctor.%0D\
Jack is perhaps the only character, including any of the companions, to truly love the Doctor - the way a spouse loves a spouse, a parent a child, or a child a parent.%0D\
This becomes glaringly apparent when we discover who Captain Jack becomes/is at the end of 10''s/Tennant''s run.
I can''t be the only one who cried.
- Ten''s image was about to tell Rose he loved her from this universe when she went to Bad Wolf Bay to meet him in the other and the signal failed. So yes, he did fall in love with her. Then Martha pined for him. The whole point of Donna was to lighten it back up to friendship.\
Those who say the Dr. is intended to be asexual forget that Three (Pertwee)was around for quite a while and had a lot of Hugh Hefner in him.
- John Simm was on TV the other day talking about how he''d love to return as the Master (despite previously saying he''d only return for a quick regeneration scene, because it''d be wrong for him to be anyone but David''s Master). I don''t know how I feel about the possibility of the Master returning. On the one hand the Master''s last appearance was left very open, and the Doctor/Master relationship has always been so interesting, but on the other hand I don''t know how well MS''s Doctor would work with that character. DT''s Doctor and JS''s Master had a very twisted, codependant relationship with gay and BDSM undertones (hi phone sex scene), that played off the Doctor''s obsessive angst over killing all the Time Lords.
- [quote]Ten''s image was about to tell Rose he loved her from this universe when she went to Bad Wolf Bay to meet him in the other and the signal failed. So yes, he did fall in love with her.%0D\
I can see that they loved each other, but not in a sexual way. It was always strictly platonic and no more. Like big brother and little sister maybe or simply very close friends. I never got the vibe that Rose was sexually attracted to Ten (or Nine). Now Martha... totally different story.
- [quote]I never got the vibe that Rose was sexually attracted to Ten (or Nine)%0D\
Oh, come on. It was there for most of the series. I mean, she even left with his clone.
- Now that the Doctor is at his most flirtatious, as played by Matt Smith, I really want to see Captain Jack back. Seeing as both Eccleston and Tennants Doctor''s treated his flirting as an annoyance, wouldn''t be hypocritical of this Doctor to do the same?
- Yup. Canton Delaware is a big mo!
- I can''t believe this doesn''t have it''s own separate thread!\
Nixon: This person you want to marry...black?\
Nixon: Hmmm. I know what people think of me, but perhaps I''m a little more Liber...\
Canton: HE is.\
Nixon: I think the moon is far enough for now. Don''t you, Mr. Delaware?\
Canton: I figured it might be.\
How AWESOME is Mark Sheppard? And Alex Kingston?
- "What happened to the Dalek?"%0D\
The Voice of the Night
- So did anybody understand anything that happened in this week''s episode because oh, my head. \
I like Steven Moffat, really I do. But I just want to be able to understand what is going on without having to have the Doctor''s IQ to understand it. He''s Lost-itizing the show and I didn''t sign up to watch something that is confusing as hell and keeps presenting more questions than answers with every new episode.
- I am terribly confused, too. I thought at least Rory was a goner in the last episode (how did he and River escape from the hatch with all the Silents at the entrance?) and then they do the whole three months later right at the beginning of the next episode. Hate those jumps.
The scene of Amy in the locked room in the orphanage with Silents hanging from the ceiling was a killer scene.
There goes my theory that River and the Doctor are related *lol* The kiss totally reminded me about the Kline/Selleck kiss in "In and Out" where Kline's character doesn't know what to do with his hands while he's being kissed.
With every new River Song episode I fall in love with the character more. The way she looked at the Doctor when he left her at the end was downright heartbreaking.
Who was the lady with the eypatch (was it the same actress who played the Vampire Queen in the previous season)?
So, Amy's a mom and her kid has Timelord abilities?
Hugh Bonneville (from Downton Abbey) is going to guest star in next week's episode.
BTW. "Crowley" is back in Supernatural. It was pretty obvious that this was a one time only guest spot thing.
- [quote]So, Amy''s a mom and her kid has Timelord abilities?%0D\
I''m not seeing yet that this kid is really Amy''s kid. Possible. But not necessarily at this point. Could be the Doctor''s daughter. Could be River. Who knows.
- This timew-wimey stuff is getting confusing and I''m saying that a life-long Whovian
- Hello, Sweetie!
The Voice of the Night
- Could the little girl be Donna??? Just a thought....
- From what I read into the episode:%0D\
River realises that for the Doctor, this was his first kiss with her, so all other kisses are in his future and her past.%0D\
The Tardis couldn''t get a lock on Amy''s pregnancy, therefore the fetus MIGHT be affected by time travel.%0D\
Dunno who the woman at the hatch was. Looked a bit like River. A relative?%0D\
The Doctor has about 200 years to live - but can''t know about it yet. But at sometime he does find out about it and accepts (fiddles?) it...%0D\
Did I miss anything?%0D\
[quote]A spoiler being circulated online says that in a future episode, River Song refers to Amy as "mother".%0D\
If that''s true, and if - as the photo by the little girl''s bedside suggests - Amy is the little girl''s mother, then the little girl is River Song? Unless Amy has more than one child? So River Song kills the future Doctor? That would work with River''s imprisonment for killing "the best man I ever knew". But then how to explain the girl''s/River''s regeneration? %0D\
- The Eyepatch Lady is Frances Barber, who isn''t the same as Helen McRory (the vampire queen). She is, however, a reasonably prominent actress, so I imagine we''ll see more of her.
- I wrote a long theory last season about how River was Rory and Amy''s daughter but scrapped it because there was some point about it that didn''t make sense so I deleted the file. I wish I could remember what I wrote.\
I think Moffat has filled the show with obvious false herrings. He wants people to think River is the Doctor''s wife and that the girl is Amy''s daughter when neither is true. Amy may not even really be pregnant! (Why did she say she was but then recanted that? And why can''t she just get a damn blood test or even a drugstore pregnancy test?) The only thing I''m certain of anymore is that Moffat likes to mess with the fandom''s heads.
R whatever I was on the previous page
- Very confusing, I admit, but I believe many more answers are to come, so it doesn''t really bother me.%0D\
- Thank you R95! So glad I''m not the only one who is confused!\
I just started watching this show and I love it but I was totally lost during the last episode.\
I went online to see if I could find a good summary to help clear things up but I got the impression that I may have to watch previous episodes in order to have any idea what is happening in this one?\
I just don''t know how far back I''d have to go and I''m debating whether to just accept my confusion or spend the next month or two doing a Who marathon, trying to fit some pieces into the puzzle.
- r105, I''d just go with first season of the modern reboot of Doctor Who, starting with the Ninth Doctor (Christopher Eccleston). If you''ve got Netflix, all but the fifth season are available for streaming.\
I''ve never gone back and watched any of the old school Doctor Who and have had no problem keeping up, it was designed to be understood from that point for new converts.
- R105, I''d go back and watch last season, which introduced Matt Smith as the Eleventh Doctor. You''ll get backstory on the current characters and much of the essential Whovian framework. Then, once you''re sucked in, you can go back and watch the Eccleston (Nine) and Tennant (Ten) years. Actually, You also might want to watch the two-parter in Tenant''s last season (Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead) where River Song is introduced. %0D\
I respectfully disagree with R106 because the character continuity will be stronger if you start with last season than the beginning of the reboot. Also, I''d suggest disregarding the advice of posters who say one or another Doctor isn''t worth viewing. I love all of the modern iterations, for different reasons. have fun catching up - it''s a fantastic ride.
- There are still a lot more questions to be answered (such as who/what was the voice saying "The Silence will fall" and apparently controlling the TARDIS last season) but the producers insist that there is a season-long arc which will reveal most of the answers over time.
- Thank you very much for your help, R106.
- My friends all started with 9 about the time 10 was finishing up. Still, I agree with the poster above that suggested starting with Season 5 (11) to get caught up enough to enjoy Season 6. You don''t have to know who Rose Tyler, Martha, or Donna are to enjoy the new episodes. You will love them if you like the new episodes though.\
The first I saw of the reboot was the Christmas episode where the new Dr (10) fought the Sycorax. Loved it enough to start with the whole reboot.
- Is this show available anywhere online in the US? \
I can''t watch the BBC site, for some fucking code reason.
- Hulu and Itunes have it I think.
- The entire new Who should be available through Netflix. iTunes will only have the latest episodes, but I''m not sure about that. You could even try your local library. Mine has all the seasons but the problem is they''re always checked out and have long lines to get them. \
And sorry but I have to agree with the poster who says it makes more sense to just start watching from Nine to now. River is introduced in season 4 and featured prominently in 5 and this season so it''ll be too confusing to skip the library episodes or go back and forth. Better to just watch from the start. Plus, you could spoil the episodes if you don''t watch in their proper order.
R103, et al
- I watched from the beginning of the reboot to mid season four to catch up within a week. Never had more fun (at watching several season of a show to catch up). It even gave me an idea for a Doctor Who like series I''m writing / developing in my spare time.
- [quote] you could spoil the episodes if you don''t watch in their proper order.%0D\
Well, isn''t that our current problem. Which order? Future to past or past to future? And whose order anyway? The Doctor''s or River''s? %0D\
Good luck on sorting all that out. %0D\
Seriously though: Starting with Season 5 when Eleven appears first should be sufficient to grt into the whoniverse. Those episodes explain sufficiently the mystery around River. In fact, it might be fun to watch the library-episodes after River''s mystery is solved in the Eleven-era. Going back to River''s future might be very enlightening then.%0D\
- R115: I disagree, because watching the Christopher Eccleston episodes with Rose - and the introduction of Captain Jack - will help a new viewer understand several parts of Tennant''s Doctor.\
Re: The opening two-parter. God, I hope Moffat doesn''t turn DW into a Lost type of show either. A part of me love geeking out and following the theories and fansites; but after a while, it almost turns into a JOB.
- I agree that new fans should at least start with the library two parter where River Song is introduced. River has become an important regular guest character and the whole "the more I meet him the less he knows me" plot adds so much to her character and suffering. Much better (and more fun) is of course to start at the beginning of the reboot. But to each his own.
- I enjoyed the way they got out of this mess - really clever to use the Silents'' post-hypnotic suggestion abilities against them. But too many unanswered questions left from the two-parter. To add to the still unanswered questions from S5. If the Silents and "the Silence" are the same thing, how are they connected to the crack in space/time? \
I think that time was messed with and Eleven will not die in the same way at the lake in two hundred years, not with Amy et al. knowing about it. \
Or, River mentioned that the spacesuit may be able to operate with no-one in it, the Doctor could have been shot, died, and regenerated into the space suit - the spacesuit ate him. Like the spacesuit ate the girl? The Silents kept Amy for a few days, maybe they took DNA from her and the doctor to create the half-human, half-Time Lord little girl. They seem capable of time travel - they have their own time machine, they could have placed that baby anywhere in time.
- Problems, R118: \
They burn The Doctor''s body after the double tap, \
There are photos of Amy with the little girl (implying Amy was around in 1958-1959 at least), \
The aliens steal technology and were always here guiding technological advances.\
They have a suit that is far more advanced than NASA is capable of producing so there has to be a more advanced race they pillaged.\
The suit sounds dalek to me.
- I secretly judge people who claim to ADORE the new series, but refuse to watch any of the classic stuff.\
Okay, maybe not secretly.
- That is pretty unreasonable, R120. I watched and enjoyed much older Doctor at the time, but have no problem with new viewers who didn''t have that opportunity not now watching wodges of tv made in the 70s and 80s. There''s so much of it, for a start. It''s nice if they do, of course.
- I there will be some very timey-wimey stuff with the present Doctor killing the future Doctor for some reason. His future will still be safe because he hasn''t experienced it.
- I''m thinking that the girl astronaut is most likely the Doctor''s daughter- she had abnormal physical traits (that Time Lords have) and did the regen thing at the end.\
Here''s a handy dandy visual timeline of the Doctor''s and River''s relationship:
- The Silents made the humans reach for the stars and moon so the humans would create the astronaut gear (the Silents use as their basic to create a special kind of astronaut suit)? I don''t know if that''s the stupidest story plot ever or pure genius.
And I''m still waiting for the ducks in the missing duck pond from last season
- Okay, as if things aren''t confusing enough, here''s something else I don''t get: I understand that looking away from the silents/silence would make one forget them instantly. \
But WHY did Amy forget that she saw a picture of herself holding a baby in that creepy orphanage? They forgot the silence/''ts, yes, but not everything else around them so how does that even make any sense? Something that huge, you''d think she''d make a gigantic mental note to herself not to forget to mention it to the Doctor, right? So, whuh???
R still whoever I was, more confused than ever
- I''m an episode or two behind and didn''t realize that Canton Delaware, played by the awesome Mark Sheppard, is gay.
- I like the latest one with Downton Abbey''s Hugh Bonneville.\
I bet the whole mystery has something to do with one (paralell) universe clashing with the other and that''s why Amy is pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, the Doctor who died is from an alternative universe and he had to die in order to make things right in both universes and the astronaut is from the other universe and entered through the calm sea the guys had a picknick at the beginning of the season.
- But eye patch woman...who is eye patch woman????
- Am I crazy or haven''t they already done the ''parallel worlds crashing together'' story arc? Isn''t that what season 4 was all about - the walls between the Doctor''s world and Pete''s world were breaking down so the two were crashing together, leading him and Rose, etc. to be reunited till the walls of the parallel world closed up again? \
And if R127''s theory is right, then who is the regenerating little girl? And yes, who is the eyepatch woman?
- [quote]And yes, who is the eyepatch woman?\
The midwife or nurse who helps Amy to give birth. At her appearance she said something like "she''s dreaming again!" which makes me believe that she checks up on Amy.
- A great article for all you whovian naysayers.....
- [quote] Am I crazy or haven''t they already done the ''parallel worlds crashing together'' story arc?\
They''ve also done the ship''s AI misbehaving without its crew (The Lodger). Where/when did Amy learn to be a pirate? Is it really a good idea to give dangerous, mutinous 17th century pirates a space ship? It was a disappointing episode. And I hated the music during Rory''s CPR death scene.\
Agree that the eye-patch woman is a nurse helping to deliver Amy''s baby, based on her dialogue. \
According to the preview, next week there may be another Time Lord.
- There was also an episode (Catherine? or something like that) where the robotic repair crew of a ship killed its crew for body parts to repair the ship and travelled through time and space in order to obtain a very specific organ the robots believed the space ship needed.
- That was another Moffat-penned episode from Season 2, "Girl in the Fireplace". I didn''t care for it much. Moffat''s episodes from before he took over the series were always hit or miss with me, either spectacular or disappointing. He has a track record of recycling concepts. From elsewhere on the internet there''s mention of the similarity of this past episode''s plot to S1''s "Parting of the Ways" as well: where people seem to be killed but they''re really just being transported somewhere else.
- You''re thinking of Steven Moffat''s ''A Girl in the Fireplace'' R133. \
Honestly, I agree both with the author of R131''s article but also with the author who says the show has become too complicated. There''s nothing wrong with a smart show. But Steven Moffat is making the show too endlessly confusing for no apparent reason except to show how smart he is. For all the crap that Russel T Davies got when he was showrunner, I found his episodes much more exciting and emotionally compelling than I have most of seasons 5 and 6 so far.
- I''m hating the Stephen Moffat seasons, I want David and Russell back now.
- I partly disagree, R135. I''m enjoying Matt Smith and Karen Gillan as Doctor/companion against expectation (I was and remain a huge Tennant fan), as well as the unexpected bonus of River Song and Rory as meta-companions. I''ve found both last season and this one completely compelling. But I find myself focusing on the overarching plot points/series direction far more than I did in the previous four seasons, barring the final story arc of Season 4 with the Master/Ten''s endgame. While each recent episode (or two-parter) does stand alone tolerably well, I''m impatient with distractions, as with this week''s bit of pirate fluff. I just want to know where it''s all going.
- This was from earlier this year, a short featuring the Doctor, River and Rory and "timey-wimeyness", pretty confusing, but that''s Moffat.\
Part One called Space is linked below. Part Two called Time is also on youtube.
- sorry, I meant Amy and Rory, not River.
- I *loved* last season a lot.%0D\
It''s taking me a while to warm to this season, to be honest.%0D
- [quote]Rory is going to die half way through the season.\
For Arthur Darvill''s sake, I hope not.
- I do like Rory and Amy, though River not as much. It''s not the characters that bother me. It''s the confusing and overly convoluted plots. TV is fun and Doctor Who''s primary purpose has always been to be like a family-friendly movie anyone can watch and follow along. Moffat is making his audiences think but think too hard to the point where it''s frustrating instead of fun. He could do with dialing down the timey-wimeyness a notch and instead focus more on making the characters more emotionally compelling. \
I keep comparing Steven Moffat to Chris Nolan. They both make these mind-blowingly creative plots but their characters don''t grab you. As fascinating as Inception was, I couldn''t give a damn about what happened to any of the characters in that movie.
r135, et al
- [quote]He has a track record of recycling concepts. From elsewhere on the internet there''s mention of the similarity of this past episode''s.%0D\
I just realized that the pirate episode has another recycled plot from season 1. A presumed villain that couldn''t be communicated turned out to be a caregiver/healer in the world war 2 episodes as well. THOSE two episode were a lot more moving though.
- Thoughts on the latest episode?\
I knew the title The Doctor''s Wife wasn''t referring to River, but there is something far too coincidental about the line "The only water in the forest is the river."
- So... that was the Niel Gaiman episode?%0D\
I thought it was all right I guess.%0D\
I wasn''t wowed.%0D\
- "The only water in the forest is the River."%0D\
Well, we know what that means: the only living person in the Forest of the Dead is River. The Doctor is eventually going to have to un-save her. Or more likely, somehow she will save him.%0D\
- I thought it was dreadful, and rather confusing, honestly.
- "Who''s Amy, the pretty one?" (cut to Rory)\
- I loved/hated it. Perhaps because I was expecting something other than what it was. There were some brilliant moments (and lines), but it''s like it worked better on paper.\
Matt Smith was awesome in the episode though. I still can''t believe he''s under 30.
- [quote]and rather confusing, honestly\
This. I love Neil Gaiman but I''m already so tired of feeling like my brain''s being put through a strainer after every single episode. I just want the show to start making sense again, or at least enough sense so I can follow allow what was going on because the first few minutes lost me. What was the planet/house thing and why was it luring time lords there and what was the putting Tardis energy into that woman all about because I really didn''t get it. \
I''m sad that I''m really not enjoying this season so far. Even though I love Matt Smith as the Doctor and love Rory and like Amy well enough.
135 et al
- R150: Doctor Who is kind of turning into Lost. EVERYTHING means SOMETHING, which can get kind of exhausting after a while.\
Don''t get me wrong - I love SciFi like Farscape and BSG that require intensive viewing - but DW can never have a real ''end game''. It''s stuff piled on top of stuff after a while.
- After a second viewing, I''m starting to love this episode.\
"I like biting. It''s like kissing except there''s a winner."\
Not mentioned on the AVClub and IO9 reviews - the soundtrack (some new!) was fantastic.
- I think I''m going to join Facebook to create a profile called "No More Bunk Beds for Rory and Amy!"\
To me the episode was quite good. Love Suranne Jones as Idris (the girl who was posessed by the Tardis). I was surprised that Michael Sheen (Underworld, Twilight series, The Queen) was the voice for House.\
The next one looks comfortably scary.
- The person who got me into Doctor Who told me:\
"Doctor Who is what makes 8 year old British kids hide behind couch. If you always remember that, you''ll love the show"\
And he was right.
- This episode was much better on rewatch and there were some great Gaiman one-liners in it like the bunk beds line. But I still wish sometimes RTD had stayed as showrunner and Steven Moffat as one of the regular writers.
- [quote] What was the planet/house thing and why was it luring time lords there and what was the putting Tardis energy into that woman all about because I really didn''t get it.\
I think the io9 review answered these questions. The house is an entity that lures Time Lords in order to use their body parts to repair his servants and use their Tardises for food. House can''t access a Tardis while their consciousness is inside so he has to get rid of it (move it to a human host) first.\
Rose in the S1 finale was also consumed by the power of the Tardis'' time energy and became a different entity, the Tardis personified. At least that''s how I remember it.
- Dr Who cares?
- I am an American living in England, and love Doctor Who. I am wowed by this season, as are all of my British friends. The Gaiman episode went over especially well. I am wondering, just for my own amusement, how many of the people complaining about the season, the show "making them think think too much", the show being too confusing, are American as opposed to British?
- I feel alone in not being wowed by that episode at all.%0D\
I loved the premier. I thought the second episode was just way too much crammed into the time... it really needed another hour to play out properly. And it suffered for it.%0D\
I enjoyed the pirate episode well enough.%0D\
Maybe my expectations were too high for the Gaiman episode, I dunno, but I kind of felt "eh" at it. Some great moments here and there, but I would have ranked it as one of the weaker episodes. Strange to me, then, to hear everyone else raving about it so much.%0D\
Perhaps I just need to watch it again, as someone above suggested... %0D\
- The problem with New Who is that it''s all overacted, loud and silly. And, of course, that would be fine for a kid''s show - which plenty of people will tell you Doctor Who is - but then the plots are labrynthian and obviously impossible for children to follow. The disconnect between those two things is what makes New Who ridiculous.\
Either stick to adult plots and bring in some competent actors who can do them justice, or keep the goofy actors and make this a kid''s show once again.
- [but then the plots are labrynthian and obviously impossible for children to follow.]\
Yeah. Tell that to all my 11 year old year 7''s who watch the show religiously-never underestimate the intelligence of children.
- You think the 11 year old or the 7 year old got this season?%0D\
[quote] But I still wish sometimes RTD had stayed as showrunner and Steven Moffat as one of the regular writers.%0D\
I second that. It''s like RTD being the heart and Moffat being the brain of the show. Take one away and something important is missing. %0D\
My lesson from season 5 and 6 so far.
- By the way, is there any info out there about the show''s budget? I get the impression that it has been decreased. Except the scenes in the desert when the doctor got shot, I cannot recall any scene shot on location. It makes the show look smaller. The pirate show and now this one had hardly any actors and no extras) and very limited sets. Typical bottle shows. Maybe the they were saving the big bucks for the later episodes. But last season didn''t have a lot scenes on location either.
- [quote]I am wondering, just for my own amusement, how many of the people complaining about the season, the show "making them think think too much", the show being too confusing, are American as opposed to British?\
I''m neither Brit nor American (though I live in America). Though I don''t see what that has anything to do with anything. Or are you trying to imply that only the Brits ''get'' Doctor Who? \
I think the poster a few replies above (don''t know the reply number) who said that Doctor Who is trying too hard to be the next Lost, where there are too many mysteries and everything is some sort of complicated clue hit the nail on the head, as did the above reply calling RTD the heart and Steven Moffat the brain of the show. RTD was overly bombastic and silly but his characters were much more relatable while as creative as Moffat is, his characters just don''t seem as emotionally provoking. And maybe it''s just me but I''ve really had enough of River Song at this point.
135 et al
- (R163)-11 year olds in the UK are in Year 7 of school. And yes, they "get" this season of Doctor Who. I also know many younger children and watch it religiously as well. I also know people who don''t really like DOCTOR WHO, but watch it with their children, who also say they love this season, especially episode three. Of course, they are Neil Gaiman fans as well, so....\
(R164)-The pirate episode was shot on location, on a real ship in Cornwall-it was a night shoot. Also, for episode 3, "the House" set was also a night shoot at an abandoned strip mine outside of Cardiff. \
The art direction on both shows was quite elaborate as well. \
And yes, I do think the British "get" Doctor Who a little more than American''s. They have grown up with it in a way most Americans have not.
- Sorry to thread-crash, but has anyone else seen David Tennant and Catherine Tate''s ''Much Ado About Nothing'' in the West End? It''s a fabulous show, very funny, and David dons very revealing drag for it (at one point hoicks up his miniskirt to flash his panties and garter belt) and also dresses up in a sailor''s uniform. It''s like Shakespearian gay porn.
- Wow. That was quick. The first preview was only last night. I have tickets for May 30th.
- Can someone please explain to me what "The Rebel Flesh" was about?
The Voice of the Night
- [quote]Can someone please explain to me what "The Rebel Flesh" was about?\
Did you miss the episode and want a recap or you watched and didn''t understand what it''s about? \
Basically, it was a Frankenstein theme redux where the flesh-clone things came to life and wanted to be treated like their real human being counterparts. Amy saw the eyepatch woman again, twice this time. Though for the life of me I can''t understand why she never tells Rory and the Doctor about seeing her everywhere.
- [quote] Basically, it was a Frankenstein theme redux where the flesh-clone things came to life and wanted to be treated like their real human being counterparts.\
At first, I was thinking Cylon baths where the individual is spared a permanent death and is downloaded into spare bodies.\
Best episode of the season so far IMO. A bit scary, plus there is a Doctor ganger as well, and who knows what he''ll be like. A little bit of playing around with whose side the audience is supposed to be on, which side is really bad and which side is really good. And nice interaction between the female leader and her ganger, when her ganger was shaking her head at her typically acting and taking charge without having all the information.\
I have a question about the missing "real" Jennifer, she seemed like she was moving oddly to me but I''ll re-watch again.
- I think they are all copies of the originals, who are long dead.....except the doctor ganger, of course. I agree, it was a great episode, though the first scene was a bit confusing. I also think this is playing into THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT quite nicely, i.e, it was the Doctor Ganger who was killed by the real Doctor in the spacesuit....
- [quote] I think they are all copies of the originals, who are long dead.....except the doctor ganger, of course.\
Not sure what you mean. Please explain.\
Real Jennifer has a limp. Must have done something or had something done to her in the missing hour. There was a Rory-sounding voice that wasn''t made by Rory calling out "Jennifer" that the real limping Jennifer heard. Was it faked by ganger Jennifer? \
It''s a little confusing, but still a great episode.
- I found Eccleston to be phoning his Dr in, and behaving with a certain level of disdain at being in the show..Tennant brought a breath of fresh air and a massive amount of enthusiasm to the show..Smith is also making a great job of it.
- I find the current series entertaining, and I like the cast, but the show seems to be leaning a bit more heavily on the horror / thriller elements lately. I think that's one of Moffat's greatest strengths as a writer - setting moods, twisting seemingly ordinary or harmless elements around to creep you the fuck out - but it'd be good to balance it out with more light-hearted, exploratory, or comic episodes. For all the discussion about Doctor Who being a kid's show, as of late I feel there's been less silliness and wonder, and more action! plot! thrills! chills!%0D
I really like Rory as a companion, especially in this past episode, and I think it's because he sort of fills the role that Donna (my favorite companion of the new series) did - he stands in for the audience and provides some needed humanity and connection. Instead of running around and reacting all the time, he provides moments of sadness and empathy. Amy is fun, but most of the time she's just screaming "Doctor!" as she's put in danger once again.
I think what r172 means is that maybe the people who think they''re the originals are copies as well and that the actual originals are elsewhere like on the mainland.\
We''ll find out next week.
- The Matt Smith incarnation of Doctor Who is all about the companions. Amy outshines him (or rather did until she, as R175 notes, was relegated to spending all her her time screaming Doctor!"), but it''s Rory who keeps me coming back.%0D\
I''d happily watch an hour every week of Arthur Darvill''s beautiful, sad eyes.
More Rory, please
- [quote]I also think this is playing into THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT quite nicely, i.e, it was the Doctor Ganger who was killed by the real Doctor in the spacesuit....\
Too much of a cop-out, IMO. I really don''t think the dying Doctor was a ganger. I''m pretty sure all the gangers will bite it in part two, or at least, Doctor!Ganger will. \
Or...could it be that the little girl who regenerated at the end of the episode a few weeks ago was Doctor!Ganger regenerating? The Doctor did mention in the Neil Gaiman episode how one of the time lords he used to know regenerated into a woman a couple of times. Too crazy to be true but who knows? \
Another River-less episode. Fine by me.
- This was the first episode of the New Who era that I didn''t watch to the end. I just didn''t care about the gangers and their dungeon. Too bad, if it''s a two part episode. I guess I have to watch the last 15 minutes after all. Felt like a script left on the Star Trek TNG table.%0D\
WTF was the Doctor thinking touching the goo with his hands? That was simply stupid and in this extent totally out of character.
- I think he intentionally created his own ganger. After all there was that scene of him visiting the fleshpool room again for seemingly no purpose.
- Just saw tonight''s episode - interesting ending; I saw the first "twist" re: the shoes early on, but wasn''t expecting the final one. Anyone else get an X-Files vibe at the end? (Guess it''s because Karen Gillan is a redhead like Gillian Anderson, finding herself in a similar situation).
- I found it interesting that Amy was kind of an Almost People phobe (especially the other doctor - "call me Smith!" LOL!) and in the end *shocker* she is one of them!\
Did the writer have homophobia / closet case in mind when they were writing this specific part of the plot?\
The bit about the father and his son was a bit cheesy for my taste.\
Did the show reveal the origin of the flesh matter (can''t remember)?\
The wall with the eyes didn''t make sense to me.\
I wonder when Amy was taken/switched.
- I''m a little confused. Last week was "The Rebel Flesh, part 1," and this week it''s a repeat. Are you all talking about last week''s episode, or have you seen something I haven''t?
- The new posts are about the latest episode that aired in the UK on BBC.
- R183 The Rebel Flesh part 2 in the UK tonight. Dunno what''s going on at BBC America''s end.
- Yes, it''s repeats today, due to the American holiday.%0D\
I never saw the 3rd series of Torchwood, "Children of Earth", so I''m watching that now on Netflix.%0D\
I have to say I like it a LOT better than the new season of Doctor Who so far.%0D\
- BBC America is showing a marathon of all the episodes this season so far, due to the Memorial Day Holiday.%0D
- Considering how scrawny he is, Matt Smith has nice-sized ass on him. Yes?
- He''s a series of interesting things jutting out from one main stalk, R188.
- Could you translate that into English please, R189?
- Are we not supposed to discuss the episode now because of BBC America''s scheduling decision? They can''t have the BBCAmerica episodes one week behind BBC for the rest of the season, can they? They''d better catch up with two episodes next week.\
[quote] I wonder when Amy was taken/switched.\
I''m guessing the first episode when Amy looked like she was being experimented on by The Silence. There was some discussion between her and the Silence about how long she''d been captured, and she seemed disoriented like the gangers are when they''re first activated. That two-parter featured the first sighting of Eye Patch Lady as well. \
So The Silence are capable of time travel then. The Doctor said he traced the signal between the Amy ganger and the Flesh to the factory last episode. The Flesh is a future technology, Amy was kidnapped in 1969.
- The last episode of the current run is next week, so the US will only be behind for one more episode.\
They''re doing a ''split season'' this season. The second half of the season starts in September, and presumably the UK and US airings will be synchronised again.
- At this point I really just watch out of loyalty. I remember the good old times when each episode was different.
- When to they stop? The latest they aired in the UK was episode 6 which has not yet aired in the US.
- Episode 7 is the final e4pisode of the current run. Then episodes 8-13 air in the autumn.
- Just saw the latest episode. OMG. I''m totally geeking out (gay army, headless monks, the Doctor calling in a few debts - where was Captain Jack?). The final twist was spoiled a long time ago, but how River''s name came to be is kind of genius. But the best: Rory in his Centurion gear!\
Can''t wait for "Let''s Kill Hitler" later this year.
- r197, loved it as well.\
I haven''t read any spoilers yet, but I''m pretty sure I know who and what the Headless Monks are.
- Headless Monks = A new form of Ooods (you know, the alien race that holds their hearts in their hands and serve mankind as slaves)?
- How much is actually coming in fall? I assume the season has thirteen episodes in total. So only 6 episodes are left, right? Did they ever mention why they split the season?
- Martha is my fav companion. I hated Donna!!!
- I LOVE seeing Arthur Darvill (Rory) in that Roman Centurion outfit.
- I call bullshit. How is it possible that baby Melody -> held by the Silence -> escapes in 1969, REGENERATES. --> Later becomes River Song --> who ends up dead in SitL/FotD. \
River experiencing time differently from the Tardis trio would mean that she should know who she is. She would know who her parents are, from the beginning. She should have known that she was the little girl in the space suit.\
I get the feeling that there is no grand plan, Moffat is just making it up as he goes along. It''s enough of a headache with River''s reverse time line with the Doctor, and great love story with the Doctor, but to make her Amy''s daughter and part TimeLord as well is too much for me.
- R203, when she interacts with Rory and Amy I think she just doesn't say anything so as not to influence the future? The same way she avoids coming to her own rescue. Her not recalling where she was held in captivity as a child is a bit strange, though there might be some stupid explanation about her forgetting that period of her life, before she became a "weapon".%0D
Yeah, it wasn't too much of a surprise about who she was, though the execution was done well. Besides opening up some storylines for the future, I thought one reason she was given regeneration powers would be so that they could cast a different and younger actress for future storylines (and future Doctors if Matt Smith leaves), before she inhabited her current body - I've been noticing that Alex Kingston has put on a few pounds and aged a bit from her first appearance in Series 4.%0D
Once again Rory was great, and at points I feel he's been out-acting Matt Smith. I like Smith's Doctor a lot, but he doesn't really convey the Doctor's moments of sadness and regret that well for me (e.g. when he's confronted with who he's become). He just doesn't have that weight of a long-lived life or that haunted look in his eyes - instead he kind of closes in on himself with a puppy-dog stare and furrowed brow. I think Tennant was a bit more open and vulnerable with his emotions, and was more effective at making the Doctor appear a tragic figure at times.
- If the Silence were involved in holding River prisoner, that would explain why she doesn''t remember.
- I still don''t understand to what war the good man went. This wasn''t a war. It was barely a battle. Or did I miss anything? %0D\
Some more I don''t understand: Why did the Doctor kill Amy-ganger when she went in "labor"? I thought he had made it a big point that these people must live too? And when exactly did he learn that this wasn''t the right Amy?
- The theory I saw elsewhere on the net was that the Amy ganger wasn''t an activated, alive, sentient ganger like the others at the acid factory. Real Amy was controlling her ganger - like a forklift operator, but she wasn''t aware of it. All the Doctor did was break the connection between the two, but before he did that he gave Amy the message that he was coming to find her.
- The Doctor knew she was a Ganger when he had the TARDIS do the pregnancy test scan, I think. Then he went to the acid mining planet to find out more about the Flesh before he did anything.
The whole issue about the Flesh being sentient has been pretty contentious in Who fandom. On the one hand only the few who were made self-sustaining individuals due to the solar storm were fully sentient individuals. But there was an awful lot to suggest all Flesh had some degree of sentience, in that it was self-aware and could feel, and feel pain. (The Doctor being scanned by the Flesh pool, the wall of eyes, the discarded Flesh pile, some of what Jennifer said. Not to mention him sending the others on a mission to make humanity more human towards the Flesh doesn't make sense if it's only the one in a billion who becomes self-sustaining through a random act like the storm, who's sentient.)
So one line of thinking is the Doctor knew the Ganger was sentient in its own right, and that's why he said, "considering what we've learned I'll try to be humane" or whatever, but 'killing' the Ganger was unavoidable since Amy's consciousness needed to be released back into her own body for the birth, and the Ganger couldn't survive without her consciousness. Some fans speculated the Ganger Amy was made from some far-future Flesh that didn't even have the sentience the non-solar flared acid mine Flesh had. Which is depressing since it means the two stabilised Gangers failed in the mission the Doctor set them.
But regardless, it feels like sloppy writing to have 90 minutes of hammering home "Flesh is sentient and deserves life and humans are evil and must be stopped for exploiting Flesh" and then instantly have the Doctor whoosh and dissolve one. But then the Doctor's increasing darkness seems to be a theme, and with all the emphasis on him turning into a feared and hated warrior, is presumably leading somewhere.
- But the whole "The Doctor is feared by everybody" was part of the twist from last season where the alien races became allies in a big scheme to trick the Doctor. And once again it''s the Doctor against a league of alien enemies working together to bring him down with some illusional trick.
- [quote] I think Tennant was a bit more open and vulnerable with his emotions, and was more effective at making the Doctor appear a tragic figure at times.\
Its because David Tennant is an AMAZING actor. If you want proof besides Doctor Who check out the British mini-series Single Father.
- Many people think that River is the one who kills the Doctor. (She says she kills the best man she ever knew). However, she can''t be. It was said in the library episode that HE sends her back in time to the library where SHE dies. If he sends her to her death, then how can she kill him??\
It dawned on me that maybe she kills Rory. He is her dad and he is a great guy. (Great character development on Rory - and yay for the roman costume. yummy!)
- That''s a good thought, R211. When she met up with Rory this past episode she looked really stunned to see him, I''d thought that was because the last they met (from her perspective) he''d been killed (for real this time). The idea that she killed him is a good one.\
And ther''s a lot of Doctor/Rory misdirection this season. At least a couple of times Amy is talking about some great hero and I think she''s talking about the Doctor and it turns out she''s talking about Rory.
- Rumors that Matt Smith may be leaving (who knows how reliable):
- Steven Moffat tweeted today that Smith would be returning for S7.
- Hmmm. I'd also guessed River was Amy's baby. But it's all going a bit like "Lost" now isn't it? Moffat wants to watch that because if there's one thing the UK public can't stand it's endlessly being led up the garden path. New Who has always had these 'strands' and series tie-ins, which used to be either non-existent or a lot smaller in Old Who. And sometimes that's not so great. Last season's conclusion was a fucking mess, for example. And only the Rory as Centurion bit worked for me.
It's becoming increasingly clear that Moffat isn't what the series needs either. He's great at the individual stories and two-parters, but too much of a cocktease when it comes to writing a complete season.
Moffat either needs to leave or go back and watch Old Who. And yes, Matt Smith is pretty good and better than gurning, overrated Tennant but once more it's really obvious that what Who needs is an older actor with some gravitas, and more emphasis on stories without being obsessed with nailing them all to each other in an awkward end of season finale.
It's got completely out of hand. Sigh. Old Who is just never coming back is it? Ecclestone got the closest to it and then foolishly left straight away.
And of course RTD cartoonised and ruined the Daleks forever. Thanks for that, dickhead!
Still, the one good thing is the body count is up in the Matt Smith period so it's a bit less fucking sentimental.
- I preferred the original Doctors from the old series too, ayb.\
Which ones did you like the most? Hartnell? Pertwee? Tom Baker?
- I completely disagree with ayb, sorry.\
Old Who is gone. This is Doctor Who. It always changes. Jon Pertwee was worlds away from Tom Baker and William Hartnell.\
And Matt Smith is the best Doctor since Tom Baker.
- The new Doctors don''t have the presence and gravitas of the original actors who played the part.
- I partially agree with you ayb. I think that Eccleston and Tennant had a lot gravitas in their own way that Smith completely lacks. It could be because of his age or because his acting skills. %0D\
I am not even sure he is supposed to have that much gravitas. The stories for Eleven are rarely character-driven. Amy is not really a well-rounded character either. I remember when she started, Gillan gave that usual "modern companion" statement. There isn''t much left of that. The only things I know about her is that she is very brave and that she likes belittling her boyfriend/husband. About the character of Eleven we know even less. He never gets really angry or sad, or determined or thoughtful etc. He gets excited a lot. But so does my dog.
- I loved last season. So far I''m just not digging this season.%0D
- R219, none of the companions in the new Doctor Who have been as good as those in the original series
- [quote] But then the Doctor''s increasing darkness seems to be a theme, and with all the emphasis on him turning into a feared and hated warrior, is presumably leading somewhere.\
Isn''t it somewhere in Doctor Who cannon that the 12th Doctor is evil?
- R211, you''re right. She can''t be the one who kills The Doctor. He DOES send her to the library to die!
- [quote]And there''s a lot of Doctor/Rory misdirection this season. At least a couple of times Amy is talking about some great hero and I think she''s talking about the Doctor and it turns out she''s talking about Rory.\
Don''t forget "The Doctor''s Wife" where the Doctor tells the "TARDIS" to contact the pretty one and she communicates with Rory when the Doctor meant Amy to be the pretty one. Rory pops up every now and then like some secret weapon or a force to be reckoned with.\
It makes me seriously wonder what would the reason be that River kills her own father and still speaks so highly of him (she calls the man she murdered the greatest man she ever knew and not the biggest traitor she ever knew)?
- "Isn''t it somewhere in Doctor Who cannon that the 12th Doctor is evil?"\
In the amazingly horrible storyline "Trial of a Timer Lord" the Vallyard turns out to be The Doctor in a post 12th generation "evil" version, like he regenerated a few too many times. It may have to be written around . That was a horrible time in the series. The actor playing the doctor did not even want to be in the show any longer.
- R225, that''s not entirely correct. Colin Baker loved being The Doctor. He was upset to be fired from the show - he did not quit. The Head of the BBC at the time, Michael Grade, had it in for Colin Baker because he was involved with the same woman he wanted.\
"The Trial of a Time Lord" was a decent story actually. It was too long and confusing at times, but had some good moments, and good guest stars including Honor Blackman, Joan Sims, Brian Blessed and Michael Jayston.
- R216 of course it has to be Tom Baker. Then a tie between Pertwee and Davison.
[quote]Old Who is gone. This is Doctor Who. It always changes. Jon Pertwee was worlds away from Tom Baker and William Hartnell.
I can see your point, and yes it did used to change and yes every doctor is different and usually reflects a new era. For example, Tom Baker ones are quite often fairly dark, and very well written, reflecting the gloomy 1975-1981 period in the UK.
HOWEVER, even McCoy had a sort of gravitas. A thoughtfulness. All of the doctors from Old Who had that. Ecclestone came close like I say but then Tennant came in and cartoonised the whole thing. Smith is a mad scientist, more back to the 1960s style, but there's no depth there. He's an improvement on his predecessors, and the companions are the most interesting since the Tegan/Turlough years. But the stories are so hit and miss. And then they go and ruin them by insisting on the tying everything together thing.
Take The Flesh, for example. There was an interesting story- just on its own. Well done, with hardly any cheesiness (DADDY DADDY! but we can ignore that thankfully). And then they go and ruin it by saying oh the Doctor was only there because he guessed that's what Amy was etc. etc.
I like Smith but I think Doctor Who is probably now broken beyond repair. The Flesh has been the only interesting thing this season. The River Song thing I saw coming a mile off, and I think it just shows you what happens when you use a good idea too much.
It's just a TV show though. And Matt Smith is working with what he has. There's not a lot you can do with that.
- I hate the whole B-movie concept of the Time War. There was no need to kill off the Time Lords, and I think it''s sacrilege to make such a major change to the show''s history. What was the point of that?
- The point was that RTD wanted less backstory for the Doctor, so that the new audience could follow without any further knowledge about the past.\
I actually found that time war very smart. It made the Doctor a very sympathetic character and gave him instantly more depth. From what I read I think viewers didn''t care much for taking that part away. Or at least they were very forgiving about this. And apparently the timelords don''t seem to be that dead anyway. Looks like they are just in some form of limbo. And RTD made sure that they can be brought back in case his successors need them again.
- "I actually found that time war very smart. It made the Doctor a very sympathetic character and gave him instantly more depth."\
I think it led to unnecessary emoting that we didn''t need, and that wasn''t part of the history of the show.
- I wouldn''t say I needed it, but I think the emotions made the stories richer. And I am missing these emotions right now. I just don''t care that much for the characters anymore at this point.
- Arthur Darvill goes from Doctor Who to Doctor Faustus
- BBC America is airing Battlestar Galactica alongside Doctor Who. The first 2 hours of BG put the last 2 seasons of DW to shame.
- I enjoyed the episode for the most part (even though I''d gotten spoiled about who River really is months ago), even though I didn''t understand half the episode.\
However, to go from that much emotion (good acting from Karen Gillan, Arthur Darvill, and Alex Kingston) to "The Doctor Will Return in ''Let''s Kill Hitler!''" was kind of jarring.
The Voice of the Night
- So the flesh turns into clothing also? Clothing that can be taken off and swapped? \
I wonder if the real doctor''s traded shoes turned back into goop.
- It also seemed like Flesh-Melody''s blanket didn''t turn into snot while Amy was holding her.\
Apparently, people want the two lesbians to get their own spin-off. I could get behind that.
The Voice of the Night
- The Doctor only has twelve Regenerations, right? What are they going to do when Matt Smith leaves?\
I mean, I know they said The Master was given extra regenerations to fight in the Time War, but the Time Lords are long gone now.\
I keep hoping they''ll do what people keep hoping and cast Gillian Anderson as the Rani.
The Voice of the Night
- To tell the truth, I prefer the classic Doctor Who series, especially the ones from Tom Baker''s run. I''m an American and saw a lot of Doctor Who on PBS when I was a kid. Even back then I realized that the production values were rather poor, but the stories and the acting made it so fascinating to watch.\
The new shows have been a lot of fun to watch, but I think they peaked during Tenant''s run, and, in my humble opinion, seem to be going downhill.
- The regeneration thing kind of went out the window a long time ago. The Master used all his up back in the classic era, and always managed to get more somehow. The regeneration limit was something artificially imposed by the Time Lords, rather than some kind of innate biological thing, so possibly they removed the limit during the war (or gave everyone extra), or with them all dead it no longer exists. I hope whoever is the showrunner at the time uses the opportunity to squeeze some drama out of it, rather than just ignoring it, but it''s not a big deal.
In the 5 Doctors, the Time Lords offered The Master a new regeneration cycle if he helped the Doctor. The Master himself had gone past the 12 regeneration limit by hijacking another person''s body.\
I''m sure they''ll find some way to extend the Doctor past the the 13th one, it could even be the theme of that series, finding a way.\
In the Twin Dilemma, a Time Lord on their last regeneration dies/was killed and rather undramatically just stays dead (but nothing exciting happens to his corpse.)
- if there are any DLers living near London, you can now see Arthur Darvill playing the devil onstage in Doctor Faustus. one girl reported spending her time staring at his ass as he was literally standing a few feet in front of her face:
- I adore Arthur Darvil. I think Rory is my fav Doctor Who character, even rivaling the Doctor himself. So bummed he wasn''t at Comic Con this year, would have loved to meet him!
Rory Williams... fuck yeah!
- Nice to see the Rory love. Now if they could only dump Amy off on some inhospitable planet...
- When does this season continue?
- So, what did everyone think of Let''s Kill Hitler?? I thought it was a brilliant episode!
- The post production face smoothing is killing me....why? Everyone looks like they''re wearing plastic masks.\
So redhead girl Mel regenerates into mixed race Mel in the alley? Weird. I would love to see a black Dr. Who, especially if he was like William Marshall or Chiwetel Ejiofor- those guys had/has tons of gravitas.
- I don''t think I have ever been more consistently confused than I have with this year''s Dr. Who. Time travel is often confusing, but Steven Moffat has raised the bewilderment to an art form. Does anyone know of a website that will explain this season''s complexities simply and clearly, as if written for a rather stupid child?
- I liked it when the Doctor and his companion would travel around and meet cool people from the past like Queen Victoria and Agatha Christie and Vincent Van Gogh, or into the future to encounter alien worlds. All this mythology about River Song is making the show unwatchable.
- Someone mentioned digital face smoothing. Is that why Alex Kingston looks so great? Or was that referring to something else?
- SPOILERS AHEAD for those who haven't watched it yet: %0D
I liked the episode a lot. But I couldn't help thinking what RTD would have made with this story if Moffat had written it with him. There were a lot of missed opportunities in terms of emotional impact on the characters. I'm not even talking about Amy's best friend turning out to be her daughter. That should be big for Amy. Mel was obviously brainwashed. But she was acting like the Doctor is a parent that neglected her all her life (which is kinda true in a way I guess), lashing out at and about him whenever she could. Pointing out the Doctor's failings in each and every instance at school must have been an outlet for the rage that finally exploded in 1938. RTD might have elaborated that more. %0D
And then RiverMel donating her lifelines to save the Doctor. She merely asked if he is worth it and then gave all her lives because Amy said yes. Not credible. RTD would have made it credible, and probably milked this aspect extensively.%0D
Still, great plot. Should have been given 2 hours.%0D
Btw, I am getting tired of all the fake and almost regenerations.
- It''s gotten to the point that I cannot follow the plotline, nor understand what''s really going on.\
Which makes me love it even more.
- So do you think River still dies in the library or if time will change?
- "It''s gotten to the point that I cannot follow the plotline, nor understand what''s really going on."\
That''s not a good thing. The show is beginning to suffer in the ratings and it could alienate viewers. There''s no need for such long, complicated, drawn out plots.
- From what I understand R252, because their timelines are running in reverse it''s still perfectly possible that River dies in the library as she did when we first met her.\
To be fair to complicated Mr. Moffat, to bring the Melody/River thing to a point where it actually finally makes sense albeit in a totally convoluted way was pretty skilful. The troubling question always pops up time and time again, however. Did we really need it?\
And how are they going to get out of the Doctor dying in April thing? Yes, he now knows his fate which changes things but... oh christ, whatever.\
I think I will allow mental space in my head for Dr. Who ''problems'' if/when they replace Smith with someone older. Until then I will just tune in weekly until it ends. It is, after all, just a TV show. But it''s entertaining, even if it has become rather brainless.
- The writing, characters and intellectual content of the original show was far above the new series.
- [quote]The show is beginning to suffer in the ratings.%0D\
Can you say more about the ratings? Is it compared to last year or compared to the years before? Or is it because it''s summer and the ratings are normally higher in spring and autumn?
- It looks like the latest episode did well actually. Perhaps I am jumping the gun on the ratings. I don''t think it''s as high as it was a couple years ago during the Tennant era, but here''s what it says about this weekend''s episode:\
"Overnight ratings showed that the episode was watched by 6.2 million viewers on BBC One, the second most viewed show of the day behind The X-Factor and the second most-viewed Doctor Who episode in Series 6 behind "The Impossible Astronaut". The episode also came in at number one on the BBC iPlayer service the day after it aired."
- But if he is to die in April, and if this is his last regeneration, is this the final Dr. Who series?\
Or if they somehow thwart that cut-off date, is Matt Smith the last Doctor?
- I think the Doctor can regenerate 13 times.
- R258, there is still the Doctor that is made of plastic (or something) earlier this season. Maybe it''s too easy to assume that, but he could be the one who gets/got killed, maybe by Mel. (Or maybe human-Ten from the parallel universe came back and killed him to end the mess...)
- [quote]I would love to see a black Dr. Who, especially if he was like William Marshall or Chiwetel Ejiofor- those guys had/has tons of gravitas.\
I always thought Colin Salmon would make a good Doctor. Though he was in the original River Song episodes so it''s probably not possible.
- Well, Colin Baker played a different character before being cast as the 6th Doctor, so it is possible.%0D\
Karen Gillan, Freema Agyeman, and Peter Purves (Steven Taylor: Doctor #1 companion) also all played one-off characters before being cast as regulars.
- [quote] Maybe it''s too easy to assume that, but he could be the one who gets/got killed, \
Holy shit... I''m almost positive thats going to be what happens.
- Yeah, poster who speculated that River kills Rory- I think you''re right. \
Then Ganger Doctor and Original Doctor somehow come to some sort of unspoken agreement and switch places so that OD (in astronaut suit) will kill the GD.\
i like your suggestion, [r261].
- The new show isn''t really capable of doing quiet, serious, historical drama it seems.\
I couldn''t imagine the new series doing a show as well-written or lyrical as "The Aztecs", for example.
- What season were The Aztecs? Would like to watch them sometimes.
- "The Aztecs" is a historical story from the show''s very first season back in 1963-1964. It is available on DVD, and there are probably excerpts on YouTube.\
It has an almost Shakespearean quality to its writing. Barbara, one of The Doctor''s companions, tries to change history by stopping Aztec sacrifice, but The Doctor tells her she can''t interfere with history. It''s the first story in which a woman is the main character.
- The minute they came up with a "ganger" Doctor is when I thought it was the "Ganger" Doctor who got shot in "The Impossible Astronaut."%0D\
I think, though, that they are making the stories too complicated this season. I actually enjoyed Matt Smith''s first series as the Doctor when he dealt with the "crack" that followed them in time. This year - not so much. %0D\
SOmeone mentioned a face-smoothing technique a few posts back. How do they do it? Now that explains to me why everyone looks so phony, especially the Doctor. Their facial skin looks rubbery.
- I absolutely adored last night''s episode. I really like the one-offs, and last night''s was just so fun!
- I thought last night''s episode was dreadful. Derivative story, bad acting and bad overall look. I''d rather forget it ever aired.%0D
- Agree with r270. I hated this episode. The people stuck in a dollhouse thing has been done to death in scifi. I think think of at least two Twilight Zone episodes that did the same thing. The second Amy mentioned the ''copper'' pot was wooden, I knew exactly what was going on. Is it me or are Mark Gatiss''s Who scripts not very good? \
I do still love Rory however, his line about dying again was hilarious. And at least no River Song for one episode. I''m tired of this becoming the River Song show.
- I like that little scene of the Doctor and the dad "discussing" the opening of the cupboard/closet with the Doctor taking over to speak for both of them and the dad being more confused than before.\
What bothered me was that at no point Rory and Amy bothered to open or look out of a window.\
All in all the story was nicely spooky and at some moments I had this strange feeling that this could have been a great Christmas special.
- I agree completely, r248. The mythology carrying throughout all episodes, making it one long episode is making me miss the Eccleston days. Even some of the Tennant days.\
I miss the traveling to random points in time and space where they just met people and dealt with an issue. I feel it''s becoming slightly more of a "Lost" type of show now. That''s not always, necessarily a good thing.\
Don''t get me wrong, I love Matt Smith. Of the three, he would be my favorite. I feel the writing and the storylines have fallen a bit off track of the fun, at times campy/cheesy, yet sci-fi and at time scary path it was on before.\
I still look back on "The Eleventh Hour" as a great episode and loved Smith immediately. "The Doctor''s Wife" is another episode that I thought was great.
- I haven''t liked Mark Gatiss'' episodes before but liked this week''s episode. Sure some of it had been seen before in other sci fi but it was done nicely atmopherically with some good lines bandied about along the way. I loved the old lady waking up in the rubbish - "must have been them pills"\
I do think the River plots are getting a little out of hand. I still want to know who blew up the Tardis last year more than who shot the doctor in Utah. Also I don''t understand why Amy just went along with the "we''ve got to leave River now" at the end of Lets Kill Hitler when she wanted her baby back.......... Russell Davies'' DW was too emotionally heavy for me (the Tennant regeneration was crap), but this incarnation is adventure over what would make sense for the characters to do sometimes.
- I thought the most recent episode was a real mixed bag. The first 30 minutes were wonderful - well written, the child actor was great, and the whole thing was cleverly structured. It would have been the perfect opening third of a 90-minute episode or a Christmas special.\
But the resolution was a trite saccharine cop-out. I expected better from Mart Gattis.\
I have to admit to never having paid much attention to Dr Who until the 2005 reboot, but has he travelled with two companions before? In addition to last point in the post by R274, one of the problems with the recent episode, as well as with ''Let''s Kill Hitler'' is that there now feels as if there are too many characters and too much plot to cover effectively in a 50-minute episode. Any dramatic logic in becoming increasingly strained, making it very difficult to actually care for the characters or for any of their escapades.
- Shouldn''t the River Song Story be done, now that she got to meet the Doctor for the first time? I am not seeing how Alex Kingston can show up again without a break in logic. On the other hand, I''d love to see more of Mel. I liked her.
- [quote] as well as with ''Let''s Kill Hitler'' is that there now feels as if there are too many characters and too much plot to cover effectively in a 50-minute episode. Any dramatic logic in becoming increasingly strained, making it very difficult to actually care for the characters or for any of their escapades.\
Most shows have more than 4 characters and do fine. I think we''re just used to it being The Doctor and one companion. I do think the River Song thing is a bit old now and its time to move along, but I do love Amy and Rory! (Which I think is why I loved the last episode.... Amy and Rory are so cute together!)
- the ''Night Terrors'' episode was decent, although I think it went a bit off the rails at the end.\
I wish we could get off the stupid sub-plot of The Doctor dying.
- River''s story can''t be finished. At the beginning of the season she compared her diary notes with The Doctor''s time frame knowledge and she mentioned something about an encounter that involves some very cute fish.
- I bet time changes completely and "River Song" never exists. Amy and Rory leave to raise their baby, Melody Pond. No future River, just a baby who has a totally different, normal earth future. Well as normal is one can be who''d part time lord and can regenerate. \
Think about it, everyone loves Rory and Amy, but companions don''t ever stick around for more than 2 seasons. And they certainly can''t kill them (at least I hope not). Having them go off to write a new history for their family and baby would be kind of awesome.
- Companions in the original series sometimes stayed for more than 2 seasons:\
Elisabeth Sladen (did 3 seasons) (11, 12 & 13)\
Katy Manning (did 3 seasons) (8, 9 & 10)\
Janet Fielding (did 3 seasons) (19, 20 & 21)\
But if River Song just ends up being Rory and Amy''s daughter and not someone who is related to The Doctor, the plotline will largely have been a waste of time as far as I''m concerned.
- The plotline has been a waste of time and unbelievably confusing, too.\
[quote] Shouldn''t the River Song Story be done, now that she got to meet the Doctor for the first time? I am not seeing how Alex Kingston can show up again without a break in logic. \
The audience and The Doctor are (generally) experiencing time in one direction and River is experiencing time in the opposite direction - The Doctor first meeting River in Silence in the Library and River first meeting the Doctor in Let''s Kill Hitler. But that doesn''t mean that there can''t be more random meetings. Events don''t have to occur in a straight line. The Doctor and River have time machines/wrist bands, after all. And River has mentioned several other meetings in most of her episodes.
- I do think there is a lot more to the River/Dr story. She filled the whole book with adventures and it is implied that they WILL marry at some point. I don''t think he whispered his real name to her in "Let''s Kill Hitler".
- I really like the latest episode with the title "the girl who waited". I don''t think the theme of waiting and getting old (apart from each other) was ever used so often with any other companion than with Rory and Amy.\
At first I though the voice of the Interface was Lindsay Duncan, but it turned out to be Imelda Staunton (Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter series). Pleasantly surprised about that.\
There were moments where I thought that if the impossible astronaut turns out to be the older Amy I''d cheer when she kills the Doctor (was he an incompetent ass this episode or what?).\
Love, love, love the garden set up with the statues and the weird shaped hedges.\
The show perfectly explained why some people fall in love with goofballs like Rory. I want my own Rory, dammit!
- Yes, the garden was spectacular. Made me want to go outside and trim my hedges in weird shapes. %0D\
I am getting a little tired of Rory and Amy, though.
- This week was a decent episode, with some good acting by the regulars.\
You do wonder how much longer they can focus on Amy and Rory though.
- [quote] The show perfectly explained why some people fall in love with goofballs like Rory. I want my own Rory, dammit!\
I think hell may freeze over, but if I could pick a guy from the show I''d pick Rory (over Tennant''s Doctor AND Captain Jack).
- Well, THAT was a surprise! The Doctor just drops Amy and Rory home, and heads off in the TARDIS without them. There was a hint we will see them again to tie up the River Song story line, but the show certainly implied that their time as Doctor's Companions is up.
I'll be sorry to see them go.
But I see that BBC America will be rerunning all the original Torchwoods from the beginning. Starting next week, I think. At something like 11:30 p.m., if I saw it correctly.
- Amy's a lucky bitch. I want my own Rory!
- shameless amnipulation - they'll be back for the finale I'm sure. Amy's already signed for next season......
- David Walliams (from Little Britain) played Gibbs (the one with the rodent face). His voice is very distinctive.
Did I miss it or did we see what the Doctor saw in his room?
Love the cameo of the Weeping Angels.
While I love these spooky episode they allways come with those cheesy "believe in yourself and let go of your fear, etc." solutions at the end. I know it's supposed to be a family show, but still it annoys me a bit.
Next time Craig's back. Personally I can't stand James Corden (though I love "Gavin and Stacey") but the previews of the next episode kick ass.
- sorry: always come with those cheesy ...
- [quote]Did I miss it or did we see what the Doctor saw in his room?
No, but the consensus from die-hard fans is that he either saw himself (his ultimate fear) or he saw Amy and Rory's dead bodies, which prompted him to leave them behind to "save" them.
- After Eleven lifetimes and dozens of companions, he only NOW decides that bringing mere mortals along isn't such a great idea?
The Voice of the Night
- So fed up with this story arc rubbish. I just don't care. It's no substitute for a story that lasts 6 episodes like with old Who. The Silence are stupid and why does *everything* people say in the episodes have to be loaded with 'ahhh here's a clue' significance?!?
If I wanted to watch Lost I'd watch Lost. I want the Doctor. In Space/on Earth. Fighting baddies with help from the companions. Moffat has turned Doctor Who into the Amy & Rory Show, and whilst this worked for last year's season, this year it's been totally tedious and stupid. Smith is wasted, and I'm fed up with this 'gosh I'm so full of guilt' kick which none of the older Doctors have had to any great extent. I dunno. I think we will see how they bring this crap to a conclusion. A load of deus ex machina nonsense no doubt.
It's going to have to be pretty special to tie up all those ridiculous questions. Last season's conclusion was a load of CBBC-style unbelieveable crap so my hopes aren't high.
- I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't loving the current season. I think I have the opposite problem from AYB, because I like Rory and Amy more than I like the Doctor, but something just feels off.
The River Song episodes have been enjoyable just because Alex Kingston is so willing to commit to vamping it up, but beyond that...
The Voice of the Night
- I'm relatively new to Who. I watched it a few times during the classic era (yes, I'm "old") but didn't care for it. I basically backed into it because of Torchwood. So I lack a great deal of the long view of things.
I don't mind the focus being on Amy and Rory, and the Doctor's angst, but I do mind what seems like deliberately confusing plotlines. I found the ep Neil Gaiman (whom I usually love) wrote nearly unintelligible, and the whole River Song / Flesh / Eyepatch woman / backwards-and-forwards timelines to be incredibly hard to follow.
And the Weeping Angels that seem to be everyone's favorite monster? I find them about as scary as those carrot or tinsel monsters on the old Lost in Space.
- They've overused the Weeping Angels, but in their first episode, under Ten, they were scary.
They should have left them alone. Certain monsters lose their power to frighten when you see them repeatedly.
The Voice of the Night
- Count me as another one who is tired of Amy & Rory. Iam also tired of the Doctor always calling her "Amy Pond" rather than just Amy.
While I still enjoy the show, I think this season is weaker than most and it becomimng too much about The Doctor and Amy/Rory rather than The Doctor vs the evils in the universe.
I do like the on-going story of River Song but have to admit even that is getting a little tiresome as far as the connection between Rory and Amy.
As far as what the Doctor saw in the room which held his biggest fear, I think it was River.
- [quote]"Amy Pond"
But that was so they could use the Amy Williams tag in themost recent episode so that the hard of thinking would understand what was going on.
- [quote]Count me as another one who is tired of Amy & Rory. Iam also tired of the Doctor always calling her "Amy Pond" rather than just Amy.
Hasn't the Doctor always had verbal tics like that, though? Like calling Sarah Jane "Sarah," even though she hated it?
The Voice of the Night
- Is 290 right? Amy is coming back next season?
Don't care much for Doctor Who anymore. Last week was the first time since six years that I didn't watch an episode to the end. More than Amy going home and the Doctor regenerating, I want the showrunner to change. Time to change the show's direction.
- The last few posts have summed up my feelings about this season to a T. Russel T Davies's era may have been stupid and bombastic but it was still exciting and fun. Ever since Moffat took over, it feels more like painful homework to try and follow what's happening in each episode. I love Rory but could do without Amy; in fact, it would be great if for once, the Doctor traveled with a male companion only and Rory just fits the bill for me. Bottom line being, the Moffat era has just sucked all the fun out of the show for me. I'm tired of River, who I never liked to begin with. The only thing I'm happy about is Matt Smith's acting.
Well, at least next week brings the return of Craig, one of the few characters I've liked this season. But where was his girlfriend in the previews? Or should we assume they've gone separate ways?
Voice, I don't think the Doctor JUST realized that taking companions along is a bad idea. It's like Nine told Rose, yes, it's always dangerous. He just didn't care enough to consider their safety before his own loneliness and probably thought he wasn't forcing anyone to come along so if they wanted to risk their lives, it was up to them and he wasn't going to stop them. Plus, I honestly don't think he's ever cared about a companion deeply enough to worry about them like that since he lost Rose.
- [quote]I honestly don't think he's ever cared about a companion deeply enough to worry about them like that since he lost Rose.
I don't know that he would feel that way about Martha, but I think he did/does feel that way about Donna. That's who Donna was supposed to be, his best friend in the universe.
I don't know, I think that them having the Doctor and only a male Companion would be Too Gay. Especially since they've opened Pandora's box of the The Gay.
I could do with a regeneration, myself. I know everyone loves him, but for whatever reason, Matt Smith irritates me.
The Voice of the Night
- I'm not saying he didn't care about Martha or Donna. Obviously he did, he cares about everyone. But it really wasn't the same after he lost Rose. When she first got trapped on the parallel world (before everything turned out all right in the end), he could've put his foot down and decided he shouldn't ever travel with a companion again. He didn't because his need for companionship still weighed more than his better judgment that he shouldn't put companions in danger.
I think had he to do it over, he wouldn't have brought Rose along because he knew what happened to her but he might still have considered bringing Martha or Donna along because they didn't mean the way to him that Rose did.
[quote]I think that them having the Doctor and only a male Companion would be Too Gay
I don't know about that. Let's say he does bring along Rory, just by himself (for hypothetical sake's let's say Amy dies on some world somewhere). Obviously the audience knows Rory is het so how would it be gay at all? It would be no different than if he'd brought along Mickey or Craig or someone else like that. There'd be no sexual tension between them, it'd be just two guys traveling together, at best, maybe a bromance like Merlin and Arthur on Merlin.
- "Especially since they've opened Pandora's box of the The Gay."
Damn, I've got to start watching it now.
- Just been searching around as you do, and I found this link which seems to offer some hope for those of us who want to see a return to less-complicated non-arc seasons.
- [quote] I don't think the Doctor JUST realized that taking companions along is a bad idea.
He's always known it deep inside but I think what was in his room was Amy and Rory dead. Knowing it and seeing it are two different things.
- R305, I'd be all about a male companion. And I agree it wouldn't be gay at all. Although it totally could be if it were Captain Jack (crosses fingers!)
- [quote] They should have left them alone. Certain monsters lose their power to frighten when you see them repeatedly.
And next week, the cybermen return!
- The function of a companion is to ask questions on behalf of the audience - throw some of the exposition off the shoulders of The Doctor and The Bad Guy of the Week. The audience identifies with the companion.
The Doctor could pull in the supporting cast of the Sarah Jane Chronicles, but that's a little too iffy - old man traveling about with unrelated pubescent children. Skee-vee.
One idea they haven't played with in a long time is pairing Doctor with another alien. The effects are there for a shape shifter - not just another Time Lord.
- Peter Davison's Doctor traveled with three companions for awhile- Tegan, Nyssa and Aldric (sp?).
- I like two companions. Unlike most people on this board, I like this season (and the last) due to the fact that I really like Amy and Rory.
I also liked when Nine was traveling with Jack and Rose.
- [quote]And next week, the cybermen return!
But these are the REAL Cybermen, not the "Age of Steel" Cybermen. It's totally different.
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- Having just watched "Time And The Rani" it's amusing to see how much Mr. Tennant's doctor owes to Mr. McCoy's.
- Hated Amy and Rory. There have actually been some good sci-fi premises in the past series, such as the parallel time streams that have just been wasted on complete romantic guff about Rory and Amy. I was almost happy last week, but then I realized the recycling will continue with the Cybermen and Craig. I'm not sure i can be bothered watching anymore.
- R312, the very first Doctor Who team back in 1963 also had 3 companions:
Susan, The Doctor's grand-daughter
Barbara Wright, history teacher
Ian Chesteron, science teacher
- I kinda enjoyed the whole "Dr Who is gay and the guy with the baby was his partner" thing.
- "We could hold hands if you're more comfortable with that!"
Ah, comic relief before the big finale showdown next week.
- Of course Dr. Who is gay. He travels around in his own closet.
- And this is why I thought Craig would be a great companion. Very fun episode. I didn't love how they defeated the cybermen at the end, a little too cheesy but it was still a fun romp to sit through before the inevitable heaviness of next week's finale.
- It does seem they really abandoned most of the plot for this season for the last several episodes.
And it was kind of jarring to have last night's episode actually take place like 200 years after the immediately previous epsiode.
And then to suddenly jump back into the whole Silence/Kill-The-Doctor thing seems jarring yet again.
Even if the finale next week knocks my socks off, I have to say, I much preferred last season to this season.
- Even with the tired old Cybermen, it was a fun episode. I love the chatter, but I usually have to rewind a few times each episode just to understand what Matt Smith is saying. Occasionally the same problem with Amy.
"The Silence will fall when the question is asked." That sounds less ominous knowing that it indeed must refer to the ugly guys in suits. Could equally mean their defeat instead of their victory.
Sorry, I enjoyed this week with Craig, but I am a huge fan of River Song and think her plotlines are, if not brilliant, always great fun. Ten got Donna out of the VR world in the library, I expect River can be rescued as well. She sort of reminds me of Romana in that she really is almost the Dr's equal.
Well of course she's the Doctor's equal- she's part Time Lord, with none of the wishy washiness. She's regenerated 2 times? And used #3 to regen someone else?
Is the Ganger Doctor still around? I don't remember. If he is, there's the open ending for next season.
- I just watched the second McCoy adventure, "Paradise Towers". A bit cheesy (Richard Briers horribly miscast here) and cheap but not a bad little story, and of course very much a bit of social satire as so much of 80s Who is.
It's not the sort of thing you can pack into 45 mins, is it, New Who?? You know, an actual story with rounded characters where the doctor solves the problem and the companion is only secondary to what's happening. And dialogue that doesn't sound like it came out of a soap opera. And a conclusion that doesn't happen awkwardly in the last 5 minutes. And a sonic screwdriver that doesn't get used for everything, ALL THE TIME, as was the case in the latest episode.
MORE TWO PART STORIES, PLEASE!
-gets off soap box-
- [quote] Is the Ganger Doctor still around? I don't remember. If he is, there's the open ending for next season.
The Ganger Doctor went splat at the end of that two-parter. So Eleven lived 200 years between last episode and this one?
- [quote] So Eleven lived 200 years between last episode and this one?
Time is not a straight line. It seems like he decided that now was the time to die. (Although I'm not sure why he can't just never go to that place, and hence, not die there...)
This season makes my head hurt.
Which brings me to my second point... I loved last night's episode. Why can't there be more like that and less River Song/Silence/Doctor dies thing??? I thought River Song was interesting at first but its getting kinda old. Get over it and move on.
- [quote]So Eleven lived 200 years between last episode and this one?
- I still prefer the original series.
Matt Smith is an improvement over David Tennant, but the problem with the new show is that all the Doctors are young and are getting younger.
The Doctor used to have more gravitas and authority when he was a middle-aged man or a father figure you could look up to as a kid.
Now he's basically a young, hip best friend.
- [quote] The Doctor used to have more gravitas and authority when he was a middle-aged man or a father figure you could look up to as a kid.
I hope the next Doctor after Matt Smith is older. I know this sounds odd, but I could totally picture Hugh Laurie as The Doctor.
- Well that was probably the biggest cop-out ever.
- I quite liked this episode. Although the 'twist' felt a bit desperate.
- I kind of liked the finale. But it does leave a lot open for next season.
- The finale didn't make any sense to me. I know I should watch it again, to get more pieces of the convoluted puzzle. But I really don't care anymore. Give me back some of the fun when Jackie Tyler noticed a man in her bedroom and the wasp was in the library. Or some great sci-fi drama like when peoples' faces turned all into gasmasks.
- What didn't make sense to you?
- Nice summary of the finale, and the season:
- Oh, the actor who played the old guy (who brought the gasoline) died before filming his part in the finale? I didn't know that, but I wondered what was the deal with him since his appearance at the first episode of the season was never explained.
The Doctor faking his death won't work for long since sooner or later he'll do some heroic planet saving and everybody in the universe will know that he's still alive. Of course the Silence will search for him again to prevent him from answering the question (which is a fixed point in time as well?).
I must agree with the review that River Song turned from a fierce badass into a pathetic psycho. Sad. I now dread the possibility of River Song returning (though Alex Kingston rocked in that role).
- I didn't really care for the overall tone of the finale, and frankly, the idea of the Doctor and River being physically intimiate makes me a little queasy, but I have to admit the "first question" was kind of clever.
The Voice of the Night
- In "The Library" episode, River whispers to the doctor something that makes him believe her. One is led to believe that it was his name. In the episode last night, he supposedly states to look in his eye, where River sees the miniature doctor.
Either River lied about that (since the Doctor lies) or River is also one of those machines with small people in it (which I would doubt).
- 'The Fall of the Eleventh.' Well, I have a feeling what that is about. Can't wait for Twelve anyway.
But I agree with Blue Face, the question 'Doctor Who?' really should never be answered. I thought he just called himself the Doctor and nothing else. If the question is about the Doctor's origin leading back to the Time Lords, I don't need to know.
- I saw the 'question' being Doctor Who a mile off. Not a bad finale- made more sense than last year's and did tie up most loose ends apart from the Silence, who really should have been destroyed because they're a stupid enemy.
Moffat has said he's dumping story arcs next season so I expect that will probably be Smith's last one as well. And then for 12 they'll most likely go for an older actor. Let's hope Moffat also has the sense to put the Silence in the bin where they belong seeing as they're apparently both all-knowing AND easily tricked (SPOILER: plot hole the size of the TARDIS).
- [quote]Moffat has said he's dumping story arcs next season so I expect that will probably be Smith's last one as well
I think Smith is signed through 2013.
The Voice of the Night
- He's hinted he'll stay until 2013 when the show will be 50 and he will be 30.
- i'm thinking they're both there until the 50th. There does seem to be a long term plan afoot. Fall of the 11th sounds like the anniveraty to me...
Now if the doctor didn't whisper his name, then surely he never married River properly. And he's just taking advantage. Sounds like most men I've known......
- There is a whole book of spoilers and they compared lots of adventures seeing when each was in their own timeline that we haven't seen. Lots of opportunities for him to tell her and I'd bet she's there when the question gets asked and answered too.
I thought the episode was brilliant, though I agree the Silence is a dumb enemy.
I love the banter: "she mentioned you - what did she say - 'put the gun down' - and did you? - eventually."
- Ah yes, R342. I've since been doing some research and now things make a bit more sense. Moffat has just basically stuck two fingers up at RTD's Who, said "No, THIS is how it should be." and obviously next season we will FINALLY get a Dr. Who that looks and feels more like the old series. A proper answer to the McCoy hints (which I now know of but have yet to see) of the last two seasons of the original run.
And in doing so, also going back to examine One rather more. Which makes sense when you compare Hartnell (a man who looks very old but is actually young) with Smith (a man who looks very young but is actually old).
He may be clumsy, but his heart is in the right place. Moffat has finally rebooted Who properly, and in a way that doesn't wipe out Nine and Ten but does kind of say "those regenerations were just to get us to this point- the REAL story".
Yes, it's just a TV show but in terms of sticking to proper Who, you can't fault Moffat. He [italic]gets[/italic] it.
- Ayb, where do you get all this from? Can you post a link please? The style you hint wouldn't be a departure from RTD, imho, as we departed from that style last year already - big time. I'd find the change in style rather remarkable because Moffat would depart from his own concept.
- Next season is Matt's last.
- [quote]They should have left them alone. Certain monsters lose their power to frighten when you see them repeatedly.
Did someone call?
- R347, this was it at the time I did the research about a month ago but there have been more interviews since.
Moffat is killing off the 'messiah complex' of the doctor by having him go back into the shadows.
He's returning the series to an Autumn time slot- which was where it lived when it was cancelled.
But there's more. He's going full-on geek, google "cartmell masterplan" to get an idea. McCoy was supposed to go into this in his 4th season, but of course, he never got one.
This is how it's the proper death of RTD. He knew he couldn't pull the lever (his cliche, not mine) all the way over for season 5 and even season 6 and so you got a familiar, over-bombastic, stupid season finale last year made from mostly short vaguely related episodes. This year everything was geared up all the way through towards the finale. It was just a long story that felt like it was going nowhere but then he gave us a finale that whilst not brilliant or even 'very good', finally put a nail in the skull of the "superman" Doctor, tied up all the loose ends and even linked back to the previous season.
He was playing a long game. And this is why he cast Smith. The Doctor is vulnerable again. Not in that stupid wah wah wah it's all my fault RTD way, but in a human makes errors of judgement kind of way. When RTD belatedly tried to make Tennant darker, it didn't work. Smith flicks between the two extremes effortlessly, but more importantly, convincingly.
In other words, he's a lot more like Doctors from Old Who- the genius who doesn't take himself too seriously. I didn't always get it, I must confess, but now I do. Let him have two more seasons at least- he has earned them.
Nine was too earnest, too serious. There was no whimsy. Ten was hyperactive but seemed to be suffering from some kind of God complex- took himself far too seriously, despite the fools bravado. I wouldn't be surprised if RTD was a big fan of Colin Baker and Peter Davison (the eras with HUGE body counts and often depressing stories) and was trying out, in these two, two different versions of the Dark Doctor Colin Baker started off as but was steered away from by crappy writing.
Woh, what an essay. But that's what I meant by saying Moffat gets it, where RTD didn't.
- It was a good finale to a crappy season. Rory is about the only thing I like about this version of Doctor Who.
- ayb - You make a lot of good points. I think I may be one of the few people who actually liked this season and it does bring the doctor back to his origins. I love David Tennant's Doctor, but it did stray from the core of the show I think... but part of it was The Doctor being a chick magnet.
Regarding Nine though, yes, he was a bit ernest and serious and there wasn't a lot of whimsy. But it fit. Remember, Nine regenerated during (or right after) the time war. Thats gotta be a bit scaring.
On a totally different note, I did like this season. Partly because I thought it was good and partly because Amy and Rory are fucking awesome (and Rory is hot!).
- Last night's episode was good and bad. I wish it had been a 2 parter... too much crammed into on episode. The idea of all of time occurring at once is brilliant and I would have loved to see more of that randomness.
It also dawned on me that the Doctor is kinda a dick. She moves heaven and earth and risks the collapse of time for him but at some point he sends her to her death in the library. For what purpose?? Because it already happened? So what? Time can be rewritten - and it isn't like her death is a fixed point.
- As far as I remember Ten didn't send her to death. River actually summond him. He didn't know who called him to the library, and she didn't know she would meet a different incarnation. Then at the end she handcuffed him so he would be unable to resue her. She sacrified her life deliberately and voluntarily.
- No, Ten didn't send her to her death. Ten had never met her before because she was from his future.
But Eleven DID send her there (or at least know she was going to go there and not warn her). She had his sonic screwdriver - he had given it to her (because he knew his past self would use it to save her into the computer. (Ok so she technically didn't die actually).
My head hurts now. I'm bored today... maybe I'll go watch the library episodes again.
- of course Matt Smith should stay for a while longer. There have been too many changes of Doctor lately. There used to be a time when people had an attention span that could follow the same Doctor for more than 3 seasons.
Jon Pertwee did 5 seasons, and Tom Baker did 7 of them.
so Smith should do at least 4.
- I think three seasons with us nerds is the limit for any actor who wants future work outside of Comicon. Plus, there's less negative geekback when they do change the actor.
Oh, BTW, linked is a trailer for the Christmas special "The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe".
Iheartchaos annoys me, but that's where I found the clip, Folks.
- BBC website clip: The Christmas Special: The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe
- I've said elsewhere, but it bears repeating, Elisabeth Sladen's posthumous autobiography (which contains a foreword by David Tennant) is due to be published in the US on December 15. It's already out in the UK.
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- I'd rather it have a foreword by Tom Baker who actually worked with her for several years rather than Tennant who only knew her briefly.
- Amy Pond is a cunt.
- Why, R361?
- [quote]I'd rather it have a foreword by Tom Baker who actually worked with her for several years rather than Tennant who only knew her briefly.
Perhaps she asked him to do it before she died. Perhaps he volunteered.
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- Perhaps it is just because Tennant is known to today's audiences and they felt it would be an opportunistic way of promoting the book.
press screening for the xmas special happened in the uk - and out of hte blue it's announced that the ponds are to leave during season 7 and the doctor gets a 'new friend'
- I read that she is only in the first part of the next season. Also the ending will be "heart breaking" I don't like the sound of that at all. I am tired of all the Dr guilt and crap they put him through. I want them to just have normal shows of whipping through space having fun.
Oh well I really enjoyed the whole arc they did with Amelia Pond and River song. I adored Rory the Roman and his arc. So that is basically over and we will only hear about River and the Dr having fun but not seeing any of it unless they need her for a story.
I think Moffat and company has done a good job if a little hurried and smashed into one hour segments.
- Elisabeth asked David to do the foreword. They became good friends after they worked together in 2005 and were friends until her death, even though they only worked together onscreen four times. Whereas ES hadn't really been in regular contact with Tom Baker for many years at that point. So it makes sense to ask David.
There were rumours online a month or so ago that they were auditioning for a new companion, some British actress tweeted that she was going to meet the DW casting director and that it was really weird reading Amy's lines (they usually audition companions using previous companions' scenes) and then deleted the tweets almost immediately.
- I am continuously amazed at Lis' life. She talkes about going to drama school in Liverpool, where one of her classmates was Anne Robinson.
Then, at about 17, she does what's basically an internship in the West End, and gets a walk-on role in Hamlet. One of the other "interns" was Helen Mirren.
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- I know that everything Steven Moffat and Matt Smith do is brilliant, but I had to turn the Christmas special off after about a half-hour.
I realize that it's a Christmas special, and it's supposed to be all heartwarming, and I'm just a bitter old shell of a man, but it was just to cloying.
Also, I could spot the denouement coming from the teaser.
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- This year's Christmas special was far worse than previous ones. It seemed like it was thrown together with the overwhelming theme being "it HAS to be heart-warming!"
- r362, I think cuntiness just comes naturally to women like her. Rory seems to love it.
- Oy! I haven't seen it yet, but are you saying it's even worse than last year's? I think the best Christmas special was the one introducing David Tennant. The one with Catherine Tate I liked too. But after that the specials were forgettable at best or really painful (like last year's). The Titanic special with Kylie Monotheism was literally an elaborate jump'n'run game. 'The Next Doctor' was interesting until the mystery around the fake doctor was solved. Last year was just awful from the start.
- Yes. It's awful.
The Doctor, a WWII widow, and her two children. That's really all that you need to know.
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- Throw me in a live volcano but I actually really enjoyed last year's Christmas special. This one however was so boring, I started surfing the net a half hour in. The female lead character was irritating as hell. I'm kind of shocked because whatever else the show has done, it's never outright bored me before. And Steven Moffat wrote this?!
- What's with the "heartbreaking departure" crap? The Amy-Rory arc has been dark enough over this season. I can understand that companions have to turn over every few years, but those two deserve a happy retirement.
- I am amazed I'm typing this, because Dr. Who Christmas Specials are generally terrible, but I actually kind of enjoyed last night's one. In many ways it reminded me of a Sylvester McCoy style episode: a bit of whimsy; a bit of nostalgia; some cheap monsters that were misunderstood and a large helping of gentle comedy.
Not brilliant by any means but a massive improvement on last year's flying sharks Dickensian time-travelling wtf crapfest.
Yes, the Pond bit at the end spoilt it. I am sincerely hoping next year will be their last spin in the Tardis and that they will be replaced by someone of the quality of the asian bird in the 1980s hotel episode (totally wasted that opportunity, Mr. Moffat!).
- Loathed the Xmas special - tearjerking in the worst way, without any actual substance. And the child playing Cyril gets my vote for Worst Child Performance of the Year.
I hope Amy & Rory get a decent send-off (and keep their memories intact.)
- I hope Amy and Rory die in a TARDIS fire.
- Worst Christmas special EVER. Ever. ever.
I think the last really good one was The Runaway Bride.
- I liked the WW2-husband-widow angle. Didn't care for the forrest and trees etc at all. And when children take center stage it's usually too sweet without much substance. So, yeah, I agree. Pretty forgettable.
- Did we get any info on next season/series? How many episodes, when does the first episode air? Any word on a new companion?
- OK, bedrooms. I just looked it up. Season 7 will air in fall 2012-winter 2013, including a Christmas special.
- Finally made myself sit down and finish Lis' book.
Anyone who was a fan of hers, a fan of Who in the 70s, or a fan of Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker needs to pick it up.
The book was finished in December 2010, and she didn't find out she was sick until February of 2011. So, as she was writing it, there's no hint that anything is wrong with her, but then she gets to talking about people who had worked with her who had gotten sick and died--she mentions when Barry Letts passed away, it was harder on her than even when she found out Jon Pertwee had died. It's all kind of unpleasant.
She'd only kept one thing from her time on Classic Who: A script from the final episode of "The Hand of Fear," which contained the apparently horribly-scripted final scene between the Doctor and Sarah Jane, which she and Tom Baker immediately decided they weren't going to do, and so they came up with their elegant scene. Anyway, she'd scribbled rather rude notes all over it, but kept it anyway. When Russell T Davies pulled up stakes and moved on, she gave it to him as a thank you for everything that he'd done for her--or, more specifically, I think, what he'd done for Sarah Jane.
Damn it, I am not crying.
The Voice of the Night
- What was supposed to happen in that last episode of Sarah Jane that never was?
- They had filmed three 2-part episodes out of a planned six. The three that were finished aired on CBBC in the fall.
The Voice of the Night
- Since nothing else is going on in this thread and I have a free minute I thought I post this Donna Noble tribute. Great editing, and great memories to an excellent season. To date my favorite season. One could debate how cruel and undeserved it was to give Donna Noble the sent-off she received. But it was very emotional, very powerful. Warmed my gay heart.
I still hope someone picks up that story and brings her back to the Whoniverse, at least once to restore her memories.
- Donna Noble season was the high point for me too. I felt the chemistry was so good between the Dr and companion and there was no love interest. I had to quit watching when Martha Jones was the companion I got so sick of the Dr being a love god. Then we got River. I really like the River arc. We got someone who can make the Dr dance like a doggy on two legs and have no idea where things are going. Loved it. Donna had the same effect on him. Good times and looking forward to more. Hope the 50th is fun. I was around for the beginning, yes I am a really oldie, and can't wait for more.
- Has the announcement of the new companion been discussed in another thread? Apparently Amy and Rory have a "heartbreaking"(!) departure in Episode 5 of the next season, and the new companion is introduced in Episode 6, the Christmas Special.
I'm not familiar with the actress? Linking rather than naming names in case anyone considers that spoilery, though you'll have to live under a rock to stay unspoiled for long.
- Do we have a date when the new series/season starts? I am not a big fan of Eleven or the last season. But I'm ready for more Who. Anything new is better than nothing at this point.
- You've come to the right place, friend.
Series seven is currently scheduled to debut in late August. Possibly the 25th? This is the current date for the UK, and I'm assuming that it will also be shown in the US on the SyFy channel around the same time, since that's what they did with the last series.
Amy and Rory will be departing... and Diana Rigg is going to make an appearance!
Hang on tight!
- DIana Rigg on Doctor Who? Too bad he can't time travel back to her Avengers incarnation. Still amazing to see her on iconic shows spanning 5 decades.
Small correction, R391. BBC America carries Doctor Who in the US, not SyFy.
- Season 7 premieres Saturday!
- pond life - web shorts featuring doc comically annoying rory/amy is daily this week til sat!
new series til amy/rory go sounds great!!! it's been too long a gap
- march 30, bitches.....
- Actors Tom Baker, Peter Davison and Paul McGann hold some of the new Doctor Who stamps released by the Royal Mail in the UK.
- Doctor Who returns tonight on BBC America. The big question for this half of the season is who (or what) is Clara, the Doctor's newest companion. I'm sure it was be something fantastic but it makes me wonder if the show will ever return to having normal companions for the Doctor, as opposed to ones with special powers and abilities, usually brought about for no apparent reason other than provide a big finish. I'd love to see the show have a companion who has their own agenda unknown to the Doctor, just as with Turlough in the old series, possibly working against him. Speaking of which, perhaps Clara is still somehow involved with the Daleks?
- Entertaining enough, but no great shakes.
- Celia Imrie was the best thing about it, really.
- Now is this a brand new series/season or a continuation from last fall? How many episodes would be left then?
- This is a continuation from last fall when the show went on a break. I believe this installment of shows is technically 7b and there are eight episodes.
- How old is Peter Davison? I know he was the youngest actor to play the Doctor in the old series and I think he still looks good in R396 's photo.
- Oh joy, this news will probably lead to another wave of 10/Rose 'shipping...
[quote]'Doctor Who': David Tennant, Billie Piper confirmed for 50th Anniversary episode
- Looking forward to it tonight in the US--and thankfully BBCA has been airing episodes "same day" as opposed to months later.
The new companion is young, yes, but well worth watching from the Christmas show. I look forward to more Dalek intrigue but want to see more of River Song, too.
- Tom Baker has lost weight since his stint on Little Britain.
- Oh Jesus! Rose is coming back. I certainly hope we get a visit from Donna Noble.
- It was a good episode. Good, not great. I don't know, but I like my shows having some emotional drama. The Nine and Ten shows had soul that Eleven is missing. To each his own but I hope Twelve 's episodes bring back more emotional impact. (whenever that may be)
- In Clara's book, why did she drop 23? All the other numbers of her age (starting with 9) where there except 23 (was that the year where she took the nanny job?).
I don't know about the new companion. It all just looks so damn gimmicky and yet so much the same (mystery, special effects, special guest stars, the squabbling between the Doctor and his new companion, etc.). And the opening felt like a rehash of 'Blink'. Though I liked Emrie's character meddling with her employees' characteristics and the scene of the second in command asking 'who's on facebook?'.
But I do find Matt Smith very sexy. Getting fucked by his energizer bunny interpretation of the Doctor must include some serious pounding (not to mention that it goes on and on and on ...).
- As mentioned above, good but not great. The anti-gravity motorcycle ride up the side of a building was ridiculous. It seems like the show relies too much on action scenes like these, much like the over use of the Sonic Screwdriver (we get it already, it can do ANYTHING). We got a little bit more background about Clara but there is surely a lot more to come. Makes me wonder though if we'll ever have normal companions again. I wonder the woman in the shop who gave Clara the Doctor's number is. I really hope it's not Rose.
- Btw, who was the 'client'? I didn't get that part.
- Odd that the client was played by Richard E. Grant who was in the Christmas special from last year. It's also odd that Miss Kizlet called him a client when he was clearly her one and only client aka. her boss.
- From Popbitch:
[bold]What's up Doc? Wishful thinking at Groucho[/bold]
markthebiker writes: [italic]Dr Who Matt Smith keeps grabbing male bottoms in the Groucho Club when drunk, including mine. I reckon he's definitely on the turn.[/italic]
- I thought tonight's episode was awful, gloppy & sentimental. Not sure how I feel about Clara.
Next week's looks better.
- Original 'Doctor Who' director criticizes new series: 'It's too sexy'
Published Saturday, Apr 6 2013, 1:15pm EDT | By Sam Rigby
Original Doctor Who director Waris Hussein has criticized the new series for being 'too sexy'.
Hussein directed the original episodes of the long-running BBC series starring original actor William Hartnell. He spoke about the Steven Moffat-led series in an interview on BBC Radio 4 (via Entertainmentwise).
The 'Unearthly Child' director pointed out that there had been a "sea change" in recent years, focusing his attention on the current pairing of Matt Smith and Jenna-Louise Coleman.
"There is an element now, and I know we're living in a different era, of sexuality that has crept in," he said.
"The intriguing thing about the original person was that you never quite knew about him and there was a mystery and an unavailability about him."
The 74-year-old pointed out that Smith and Coleman shared an on-screen kiss in last year's Christmas special 'The Snowmen'.
"Now we've just had a recent rebirth and another girl has joined us, a companion, she actually snogged him," he added.
Hussein said that he favors an "unavailable" Doctor, like the character of Sherlock Holmes, adding: "Why bring in this element, when in fact you needn't have it there?"
The Doctor has shared a number of kisses with his companions since the BBC relaunched the science fiction series back in 2005. There has been the suggestion of romantic relationships between the Time Lord and companions Rose Tyler and River Song, played by Billie Piper and Alex Kingston respectively.
Former star Peter Purves joined Hussein in criticizing the updated series.
He said: "The original series was so simple. They were very straightforward, nice linear stories that one could follow."
Doctor Who continues tonight (April 6) on BBC One at 6.15pm.
- I don't know if I like the new companion, or if I like her with Matt Smith.
I mean, she's likeable enough, but when the two of the talk, it's like "Hey, look at us actors doing fast-paced banter", not like two people interacting.
- Last night's episode was one of the worst I have ever seen in New Who. Overly sentimental, made-up, boring, but worst of all horribly predictable. There are also rather massive hints that Smith has been far too intwined with the Ponds and doesn't work with anyone else, which could be disastrous for all concerned.
Worse still, the preview for next week's made it look like some kind of cliche hokey action adventure with no Whovian elements at all.
I just hope I'm wrong because the last thing I want to see is New Who start to go down the pan, or for Smith to be wasted before he's had at least four series. There was one interesting point in it about Clara but I won't spoil it.
- I wonder what the scene was about of T.A.R.D.I.S. not letting Clara in (or was it just that she had no key?).
However I agree that the latest one was kind of lame and too sweet for my taste. The Doctor has become too invested in his companions (stalking Clara even before she was born? The Doctor has nothing better to do?). The character has also become a really tortured soul that doesn't seem to appreciate all the exitement and experiences he can take in. Is that really a reflection of present humanity? Why not have an ideal viewers can look up to? Did the end of the Timelords really break his spirit?
- I was just an interesting documentary on radio 4 about the original series' inception. I think it was part of a series called Reunion if you want to find it online.
- *There not I. sigh
- As some one who saw the very first ep of Dr Who when it aired, I'm putting my hand up to say I miss William Hartnell (and Norman Hartnell for that matter!) Loathed Tom Baker, the cricketer doctor (blissfully forgot his name), and the awful gurning of Tennant. Hate the steampunk tardis interior (the original was so good, it just needed to be slickened), hate the breathless pace, and the lazy scripting which just makes up something nonsensical when characters are in a tight corner.
- Agree about the fast-talking being irritating, R415. Moffat definitely has a type. It would be interesting if he'd cast against type and made the new girl more observant and taciturn then her predecessors, give Matt Smith a different personality to play off.
The Tardis not trusting Clara was the most interesting moment.
- she doesn't have a key. i didn't think it was the tardis.
that was the worst new who ep in quite a while. boring and complete nonsense.
- The Good: Smith's scene where he offers his memories was excellent acting. I liked that scene a lot. And the new companion works for me just fine. I thought the 'look at our fast and smart dialogues' was a lot more pronounced with Amy Pond.
The Bad: The whole story was really quite forgettable.
The Ugly: The special effects are significantly worse than they used to be. If your budget doesn't allow you the needed amount of SFX, you will need to come up with stories that don't require that many. It'll probably lead to more episodes playing in current times UK, but at least it'll look real.
- I thought the last third was terrible. Smith having to beg, cry, and scream at a Jack-O-Lantern pumpkin animation. Quite frankly I was embarrassed for the actor and the show that it had to come to this.
- "42" did the sentient sun thing much better.
- I'm still bitter the new companion wasn't a man. Or really anything other than a flirty, attractive, young woman.
- Good god, the latest is even worse. Ice Snake Warrior from Mars? The next one looks promising, but when it's a dud as well, someone's gonna pay *shaking fist*.
And am I the only one who remembers that the last season ended with the head shouting 'Doctor WHO' (WEHT the Doctor's identity mystery)?
- I just watched series 4 "Silence in the Library" and I guess I'm unpopular with this opinion but I love River Song. Her whole story line travelling at opposite timelines with the doctor was tragic and well played.
I wonder if there's not a connection between Clara, The Library and Dr. Song.
- Didn't Clara ask the Doctor if he had been to that planet before? He mumbled something about going there with his Granddaughter and Clara was all "whaaaat??" about that point but then the action and emphasis moved to something else and the question was never resolved.
Is Clara a Time Lord? She's died twice and has come back - is she regenerating? Why did the Doctor go back to check her family history/childhood?
- R428, there's a fan-theory that Clara may be the little girl from the "Library" episode.
- r430, I wondered something like that.
In the Library when Donna was saved to the computer, she imagined she had two children - then she was shown how they were all just copies of the same pattern and that all the children she saw on the playground were copied from that same pattern.
But when River Song was saved - her last shot showed her tucking in THREE children into bed and they made a point to show there was a third child there.
So, Who did River Song supposedly have these children with and who was the third child?
- "I guess I'm unpopular with this opinion but I love River Song"
I love her too! Although if she was played by anyone other than the delicious Alex Kingston, I might be calling her a "Mary Sue". But she is, and I want to see more of her!
I'm not feeling any love for Clara, not so far. Amy and Rory had their flaws, but damned if they didn't seem like real, believable people. Clara, not so much.
- The inter species Victorian lesbians are back in the next episode.
- I am just not feeling this season of Doctor Who.
The special effects budget must be cut in half or less. The stories are so-so. But mainly I am not enjoying the new companion, Clara.
I like the mystery of Clara, but not the character herself. With past companions, they provided a grounding for the Doctor. They were the soul of the show. We have not got to know the character of Clara. And the "fast paced scattered feel" of both the Doctor and Clara is painful.
Oh, and I LOVE River Song. Her story is so tragic and beautiful.
- Yeah, same here. Just not feeling it. Last weekend's episode was particularly crappy IMHO.
I loved Amy Pond, Rory, and River Song.
Clara? Not so much.
- Tonight's episode was pretty good. Jenny would make a good companion.
- At last, a couple of episodes that were fun to watch and better than mediocre. I especially enjoyed Diana Rigg as a villainess. Good fun, lots of good jokes and the heaviest hint yet that Clara is going to be something malevolent, or at least anti-Doctor.
Who else thinks she's a Timelord?
- I do.
The Voice of the Night
- I wouldn't be surprised if she was the return of The Master, actually. Or Richard E Grant is and she's a bad Timelord under his control. Something like that. Next week's looks a bit Scooby Doo. Here's hoping it isn't!
- Diana Rigg and her real-life daughter Rachael Stirling played the mother and daughter.
- Last night's episode was distinctly underwhelming. I was hoping for great thing from Neil Gaiman but the episode just fell flat.
- I wasn't impressed by last night's episode, but weak though it was, it made me realize how much Matt Smith has grown on me.
For the first quarter-hour I was bored, thinking "Bow many times have they set up an episode this same exact way", but then the Doctor started to argue with himself... and it became fun. Watching Smith match wits with himself was more fun than anything the supporting players or the CGI wizards could offer, or the writers for that matter. The test of a truly good actor is whether they can make bad material entertaining, and Smith is now up to it.
- This last episode was just awful. Bad writing, bad acting. There was really nothing I liked. Contrary to r442 I think that Smith was not good at all. He rarely is. He is merely over-playing a clown with no range to much more. Clara is cute, but her character is extremely limited. They don't write anything that could give her any depth.
This season is more and more degenerating to some spectacular kids show. No substance anymore. No ambitions.
- The season finale leak - cynical publicity stunt or actual mix-up?