I was looking at interviews Germaine Greer gave when she was promoting her book "The Beautiful Boy" some years ago, and found these quotes:
[quote]Andrew Denton: You said in an interview with the 'Sydney Morning Herald' a couple of years ago, "A woman of taste is a pederast %E2%80%94 boys rather than men."
[quote]Germaine Greer: Yeah.
[quote]Andrew Denton: What do you mean by that?
[quote]Germaine Greer: Well, boys are beautiful, see, they're not beardy and singlety.
[quote]Andrew Denton: What are%E2%80%A6 What's%E2%80%A6?
[quote]Germaine Greer: My favourite example of this, by the way, is Russell Crowe. When Russell Crowe was 18, he was the most winsome, lovely creature. Now he's this sort of puffy, shambling, baggy, belligerent%E2%80%A6 He's completely different. The charm has evaporated completely.
And from another interview:
[quote]GERMAINE GREER: We're talking about the fact that there is a time in a man's life when he is not yet a man and not still a child, where he maybe more likely than any other time at his life, he may be very, very beautiful. If you look at Russell Crowe today, can you remember what he looked like when he was 18? He was gorgeous.
[quote]JANA WENDT: So you prefer the 18-year-old Russell Crowe?
[quote]GERMAINE GREER: I think so. And I think any woman of taste would prefer the 18-year-old Russell Crowe.
So, does anyone have a picture of this mythically beautiful 18-year-old Russell Crowe?
Just go to show ya.\
Even people who appear to stand for freedom, liberation and iconoclasm can be idiotically bogged down in traditional notions of what is hot. Of course, its fine for her to prefer young stuff but to generalize her taste to good or refined taste is egotistical, closed-minded and, given that she subscribes to a hegemonic aesthetic, downright patriarchal.
This made me think of Jason Patric in Lost Boys. He was breathtaking in the movie, looking right on the cusp of manhood. And once he reached it and lost that boyish look he wasn''t as hot.
Is Germaine Greer the guy who played Grandpa on The Waltons?
I''ve met Germaine Greer. She is an ass.
Well. She''s right. If she were a man saying that about a young woman, you''d all agree.
She''s seventy-two years old, and for anyone of seventy-two to moon over teenagers is just nasty!
It''s my bone structure, dear!
Germaine Greer as Gran
I heard that when she dies her clit is being donated to the Cathedral at Ulm for use as a clapper for one of the great leaden bells.
I kind of like puffy, rowdy Crowe. I bet he''s good in the sack.
I didn''t think Greer had been taken seriously by anyone for a long, long time.
This from a woman who fucked Fellini.
I must admit, hearing men spoken of this way stung (because I am closer to what Crowe has become versus what he was at 18). People talk about women like this all the time; it must suck to be a woman in that regard.
Russell Crowe in his younger days. Not sure what age he is here.
Russell Crowe has aged really badly. Puffy and exhausted-looking.\
I don''t know about mooning over 18-year-old girls, but if a woman aged as badly as he has she''d be ripped to shreds on DL and everywhere else.
He was beautiful in the Australian movie PROOF. \
He''s just a bloated mess now.
I have no idea how Ms. Greer got the impression of "winsome" even in the young Russell Crowe.
Maybe she''s thinking of Rupert Graves. Rupert was winsome.
[quote]Well. She''s right.\
No, she''s not, at least not from most women''s perspective. A boy is just that...a boy. A straight woman is looking for a MAN. They may not want a Russell Crowe-like slob, but beards and other signs of masculinity are not undesirable. ''Winsome and lovely'' are not attributes that really get the motor running for anyone past the hearts, unicorns and Hello Kitty age. \
I''m in my thirties. When I look at teenage boys, I see kids. It''s like unripened fruit. They''re not even on the radar.
Germaine Greer, is she still around making ridiculous statements?\
Even back when she was on publicity tours to promote "Female Eunuch" she was fucking much younger men.
Germaine Greer is a Lez of course she likes feminine looking boys.
R10, there is a famous kiss-and-tell story about Russell that was doing the rounds. Apparently, in the "heat of battle" he started exclaiming "Go, Russ, go!", doubtless to urge himself on to greater exertion. \
And at the climax he yelled "VICTORY!!!".\
How he finds room for anyone else in his lovemaking is a mystery.
Is she under the impression that aging men are more likely to wear singlets?
Why do so many women who politically challenge what''s seen as a typical male and societal obsession with young nubile women and the lack of erotic respect for mature women, feel the need to hypocritically emulate those it by not only exalting male youth but by also denigrating mature men?\
A true benchmark of liberation, Germaine, would be rebelling against patriarchy by acknowledging that mature people of both sexes can be sexy.
This type of discussion really brings out the cultural commisars, demanding that sexual desire follow some type of political or feminist agenda.
She''s being persecuted for speaking the truth!
I love her
Because young people are by and large more attractive than old people, r37.\
Is it fair? No. Is it nice? No. Is it PC? No. \
But it''s the truth, and spouting a bunch of feminist anti-patriarchal malarkey or making an effort to say nice things about the attractiveness of older women (or men) or pointing out an attractive mature person won''t really change that. \
Young people are more beautiful than old people. Accept it and move on from there.
Poor Germs. It''s interesting only in the fact that she says is now considered taboo for gay men to say, and gay media doesn''t dare print it. \
For example, see the long interview in the latest issue of the Swedish fashion mag Bon, with Karl Andersson talking about his boy publishing ventures: ostensibly an art project provoked by Paglia. Gay media today, apart from perhaps Butt, wouldn''t dare dream of printing such an article.
Prince William is the poster boy for looking better at 18.%0D\
He also wins for going from winsome beauty to ugly troll faster than any commoner. That''s royalty for you, they do things so much better than the rest of us.
Who is Germaine Greer and what is "singlety"?
I prefer the "Sum of Us" Russ.
thank you R45, I was going to say how cute he was in that also.
"Young people are more beautiful than old people. Accept it and move on from there."%0D\
You are dumb. Whining about political correctness makes you sound like a Rush Limbaugh follower, too. I bet you watch Fox News.%0D\
I''m a woman and I agree with her, although I''ve never expressed my views to anyone before. It''s not true of all men, of course - many of them need time to grow into their looks, but that is true of many women as well. Generally, though, I resent society''s expectation that women are supposed to find old men attractive, and I resent having men who have long lost their looks (if they ever had them to begin with) thrust upon us as "sex symbols."
R48 I agree. Jack Nicholson comes to mind. There he is sitting in the front row of the Oscars every year with some new starlet and she''s supposed to act like she''s thrilled.
[quote]resent society''s expectation that women are supposed to find old men attractive, and I resent having men who have long lost their looks (if they ever had them to begin with) thrust upon us as "sex symbols."\
Remember that shitty movie Entrapment? Where beautiful Catherine Zeta-Jones gets it on with gross old fart Sean Connery? Bleah!\
MadTV did an awesome send-up of that movie; when the CZJ character exposes Connery''s flabby old manboobs, she retches uncontrollably.
[quote]Prince William is the poster boy for looking better at 18. He also wins for going from winsome beauty to ugly troll faster than any commoner.\
Agreed. He was beautiful at 18, looking just enough like his mother to be pleasing to the eye.\
Nowadays, he looks like he belongs in the old Conan O''Brien sketch "If They Mated", where they take the worst of each parent and combine them to make a true monstrosity.
"spouting a bunch of feminist anti-patriarchal malarkey or making an effort to say nice things about the attractiveness of older women (or men) or pointing out an attractive mature person won't really change that"%0D
You're missing the point. It's right and proper, and healthy, that young people find other young people attractive. Youth and beauty do go together - what is repulsive about Greer, however, is she's in her 70s and still mooning over adolescent boys. That is sick, that is warped, that is disturbed, and a sure sign of what a flaming narcissist she is (as if any more proof were needed). %0D
And - in general - my experience is that old people Greer's age who continue to obsess over teenagers and twentysomethings & insist that it's "normal" are invariably people in a state of arrested development emotionally. Of course it's normal to celebrate the beauty of youth, but it's also normal for people, as they age, to start finding other people attractive who are in their age range. Greer evidently doesn't, and she's proud of that fact, and she also insists that it's a sign of a superior intellect that she thinks like she does. She acts like a male chauvinist asshole - only in reverse - and then expects people to praise her for it. %0D
But she's still an idiot. The only reason she thinks like this is she can't fathom a relationship based on anything other than mere voyeurism. By her logic, nobody should get involved with anyone else at all, they should just look at porn all day - or if you have a partner, you should simply trade them in as soon as they pass their 25th birthday, and simply find another 18-year-old, go another seven years, then dump them and go again. That is the logical conclusion one should draw from Greer's argument. %0D
The other thing she doesn't mention, or doesn't notice, is that Russell Crowe really did get better looking in his 30s. Sure, he doesn't look too great now, but he really was not that great looking as a teen. There are guys (and girls) who are at there most stunning on their first cusp of adulthood, but Crowe wasn't one of them. And oftentimes those beautiful Adonises - like Jude Law for example - age rapidly and lose their looks very fast. They peaked young and the bloom went off the rose early.
r48, you are right. Why shouldn''t mature women look at young men? That is sexually normal.
No, he wasn''t all that, but I do remember he was cute in Sum of Us, the movie where he played gay.
[quote]Of course it''s normal to celebrate the beauty of youth, but it''s also normal for people, as they age, to start finding other people attractive who are in their age range. %0D\
In my younger days, I never found anyone over 30 attractive. But as I grew older, so did my tastes, so to speak. I can appreciate the beauty of youth, but in terms of attraction, only those in my age range (40''s) will do.
The Cover Boy on his opinions about Greer''s book:
[quote]In my younger days, I never found anyone over 30 attractive. \
I never found anyone UNDER 30 attractive. When I came out few of us boys wanted to sleep with our peers: icky poo. It would have been like screwing teddy. It was older men that were the prize!
Watch the movie "The Sum of Us." It''s the one where Crowe plays a gay man, quite nicely too. He was adorable. If he doesn''t look the same now as he did decades ago, so what? I don''t think he gives a damn about what Greer or anybody else says about him. And it''s not like he was ever a pretty boy in the first place; he was always more of a character actor than a heartthrob.
[quote]The Cover Boy on his opinions about Greer''s book:\
I think it was his own attitude that fucked up his life, not Visconti. But then I never saw the beauty others proclaimed: he reminded me of a wet dishcloth.
r52 is right - Crowe was his hottest circa Gladiator. Ten times more appealing than the "Le Roq" era. \
For what it''s worth, I''m female, 42, and have never been attracted to teenagers. I started dating men that were 10 years older than me (at least) by the time I was 19. \
Now when I see an 18 year old boy I admit to appreciating the beauty of their physique. But I''d rather watch female porn for kicks and fantasies and keep on sleeping with my "old man".
Yup, mid-30s Crowe was tastiest. Fortunately, his voice never ages so I can just close my eyes and dream.
You missed all chapters of the book.
Kurt Cobain was gorgeous, he died gorgeous and unhappiest. Marilyn Monroe was gorgeous and died miserably and unhappiest. The list is long.
Nothing is more gorgeous than ageing with the beloved one. Russell Crowe was smart enough to leave LA; Instead of ending 6 feet under with OD, AIDS or writing scripts where all sleep with all in some huge gorgeously hideous Roman orgy.
He got 2 gorgeous kids in gorgeous Sydney with gorgeous peaceful cows. Happiness is gorgeous.
A better example of this would have been Mel Gibson. I don't find a young Crowe that hot. He reached his peak at Gladiator.
r32 has it. Young Crowe = callow. LA Confidential/Gladiator Crowe = sex on a stick. He still had it in 3:10 to Yuma. Now it's just in his voice.
She's a hypocritical perv.
It's not fun being on the receiving end of such statements, but it's just a little taste of the shallow cruelty that is directed at women all the time.
Only pathetic morons or seriously sick people keep lusting exclusively after teenagers when they grow old, no matter which gender. What is it called again? It's an perverted fixation like pedophilia, just on a different age.
Why do we give a free pass to women lusting after young boys but not grown men who do the same?
I don't see anyone congratulating Jerry Sandusky for being a "man of taste" because he lusts after boys.
What do you mean, Germaine? Russell is still gorgeous today--just look at him!
I agree with her that most men are at their most beautiful at college age. That doesn't mean she wants to have sex with someone that age. It's an aesthetic judgment.
Germaine Greer sounds like an idiot. At no time in his life was Russell Crowe ever "winsome" or "lovely." And he never had anything approaching "charm." I wouldn't even have called him handsome. He DID have a lot of animal magetism and sex appeal. When he gets himself in shape, he still has it. He's an Austalian who likes his cigs and beer; does she think he should still look the same way he did when he was 18? She's an airhead!
It's more than aesthetics. We're hardwired by nature to be sexually attracted to younger people. Better chance of having children. Gray hair in nature signifies to old to mate with. An easy way of telling.
We are not hardwired to find people attractive when they are "not really a man yet".
Besides your point is pretty hilarious on a gay site. Surely we are hardwired to be heterosexual, only fucking chance of having children. Or maybe this argument is a little too simplistic.
Some people mature nicely, even outstripping youth. Also lots of ugly ducklings go through an awkward phase.
Generally, except for the beautiful, youth will trump age. It's not just the figure and wrinkles, think of the age spots,the sags,the hair and skin,the clear eyes. Who wouldn't find healthy youth attractive?
What she said makes complete sense from a biological perspective. Males reach their sexual peak early.
She said this many years ago. I don't think these are new quotes at all.
Crowe was at his best in his LA Confidential days and soon thereafter. His bulbous looking face will never be that attractive again - no matter how much weight he loses.
But winsome? Hardly.
[quote]I've met Germaine Greer. She is an ass.
Doesn't surprise me at all. She's always an old bitch on television and she's anti-gay.
She's so dead wrong about Russell Crowe that I fear she may be a bit senile and has him confused him with someone else. RC was at his absolute sexiest in LA Confidential. My God he was a stud. Those pix of him as a teenager you wouldn't even give a second look. Winsome? WTF?
It's interesting how we pine for our lost youth and beauty, but if you ask most adults if they would want to relive their late teens, the vast majority say, "no way." For me it was such a time of angst and unhappiness that I would never want to go back there.
I love this quote from a dear old friend of mine. She said, "I wish I could have my 18 year old body with my 40 year old brain. Now THAT would be like driving a Corvette." LOL!
[quote]Germaine Greer: Well, boys are beautiful, see, they're not beardy and singlety.
What does singlety mean?
A singlet is a wife beater, so I'm guessing she's envisioning a sloppy, middle aged Ralph Kramden type.
He looked great in Romper Stomper as a young man, and later in The Gladiator as a mature man.
He looks at least ten years older in those present day pics. He's 50 but looks 60.
That someone admired by many for her trailblazing in sexual politics should make such a ridiculous sexual political generalization, trivializing and juvenile in its overbroad and oversimplistic portrayal of women's desire and bullying and imperious in its oppressive and conventional characterization of male desirability, mirroring the way male-dominated culture has dictated what is desirable in women, is, to say the least, disheartening.
I like me ciggies an' bangers!
I thought "Romper Stomper" was one of his best films. He was amazing in that and incredibly sexy, despite the fact that his character was a racist skinhead.
That zit/mole in between his eyebrows always irked me. Pop it or remove, soo annoying!@
In australia, a 'singlet' is what I think americans call a tank top or undershirt, and the British call a 'vest'.
For a very long time, many working class blue collar men in oz would wear a navy blue singlet, usually navy blue short shorts (often called 'stubbies' - not to be confused with the term 'stubby' for a small bottle of beer! Confusing I know!) and footy (football) sox and steel capped workbooks. This unofficial 'uniform' was especially prevalent in the building and construction industry, among dock workers, etc.
When work by young, tanned, fit, sporty, athletic young men it looked hot. Left very little to the imagination...
Sadly tho, those godlike young men twenty years later often had ceased to play sport, ate junk food, drank a lot, smoked a lot and had way too much sun. Yet they still wore their 'uniform' - which had long since ceased to be flattering to their big beer guts.
The whole singlet and shorts look is kinda disappearing now - most industries now have official uniforms that cover a bit more skin and are more practical - but in the while it's a hot country (temperature-wise) - and especially among older straight working class guys you can still find many wearing it - which us what I assume Greer means by 'singlety'. Any old working class urban or country pub of a summer's afternoon when the working day is done you'll find em congregating outside - they're no longer allowed to smoke indoors by law.
Sorry - third para was meant to read
When worn by young, tanned, fit, sporty, athletic young men it looked hot. Left very little to the imagination...
Outta memory I think Crowe himself or the actors that play his dad and/or boyfriend might well wear this 'uniform' in 'The Sum of Us' - and I think evne the very young & beautiful Mel Gibson may wear it in the film 'Tim' as well (and if that's the case - now picture current day Mel trying to get away with the same look...not pleasant!)
I always think the singlet-and-shots-and-boots look resembles the old AFL or Aussie Rule football uniform here. The shorts were like freakin' hotpants for men in the old days...
And in his early stand up work, Oz comedian Paul Hogan used to wear a similar outfit while he did his working-class schtick (tho he tended to wear a buttoned-up shit - sans sleeves - instead of a singlet to go with his shorts, footy sox & boots). Sure he wouldn't be seen dead in that these days - for which everyone is eternally grateful.
I've never found him all that great looking. He looks like he has Irish and aboriginal heritage. I don't know what makes him different from lots of Australians and New Zealanders
We call them wifebeaters cuz all the Sicilian-American guys wore them.
ah! always wondered where the term 'wifebeater' for that style of jacket came from - never thought to look it up!
but yeah - a 'wifebeater' is a jacket - a 'singlet' is a tank-top style undershirt that used to be deemed appropriate for workwear in oz (and still is in some circles) if it's dark blue or black.
white ones have always been considered underwear tho.
"...he tended to wear a buttoned-up shit" - meant to be shirt - not shit :)
I agree I'll take Mr. Crowe right now!! Bet he is bad, naughty and as poster said great in the sack.
[quote]Bet he is bad,
That's a no-brainer.
Again, that's a given
[quote]and as poster said great in the sack.
And that's where you're almost certainly wrong. Alcoholics have huge problems getting it up.
I agree that men are at their most beautiful at college age: 18-24.
Germaine Greer loves to be controversial. She'd love this thread, especially as the subject matter is very old news. She's gone on to many other controversies since this one.
She bothers me in that she is an academic but comes out with the most ridiculous theories. On the other hand she is really entertaining, and along with the nonsense she also can make a lot of sense on some things.
As for older women ogling man-boys - I don't think it is quite like that, but if it (whatever it s) is so very objectionable, I guess we'd better try and get the Italians to ban everyone over the age of 20 (female or male) from visiting the Statue of David in Florence!!
[r100]: I agree as well. Men's beauty is over by 25.
[quote] I agree that men are at their most beautiful at college age: 18-24.
R100, Oh.my.god. I am so excited. I have dreamed of this since I was about 3. My chance at last to talk to Elmo in person - almost.
Welcome to the board, Mr. Clash. May I call you Kevin?
That a crusader for sexual liberation and for people celebrating their own sexuality comes, and a crusader against traditional male-defined standards of what is and what is not desirable, comes out with a monolithic dimwitted short-sighted diatribe praising young hairless boyish beauty and denigrating mature manly sexiness.
When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?
Idiot women like this one can't deal with adult men just like all the men who prefer adolescent girls or boys!!!
Some second-hand gossip about the young Russell Crowe, FWIW.
A friend of mine was a big Rocky Horror fan when she was 15, and she and her school friend used to hang around the stage door of the Melbourne production in 1987. Crowe, who would've been about 23 at the time, was playing the Eddie/Dr Scott role.
Anyhow, she said that while the rest of the cast was generally pleasant, there was something really 'off' about Crowe. He would show the girls naked pictures of male cast members in the shower and say stuff like, 'You want to suck (cast member's) big dick, don't you?' And then smirk at their embarrassment.
My friend said they were totally weirded out by him. Not just because a grown man was showing them nude pics and saying aggressively sexual stuff, but by the fact that Crowe really seemed to be getting off on how uncomfortable he was making them.
Wow! Thanks, R106. Very interesting.
What else you got? Spill, please.