Let''s Talk About Buffy The Vampire Slayer
One of the best shows on television?
When Buffy was great, it was amazing (Becoming 1 and 2 will forever be some of my favorites episodes of tv ever) but it really started to fizzle in Season 4 when they began college. The college setting just didn't work with the metaphor as well as high school, they lost some strong characters (Angel, Cordelia) to the spin off, and the characters they added just didn't work for me. Plus, didn't Joss leave around this time?
And then there was Dawn. Less said of that the better.
Hated seasons, 6 and 7, didn't like Spuffy or the complete take over of the show by Spike, Buffy started to become a brittle, no fun bitch, Willow got hooked on magic (oy vey), and the nerds, and potentials were stupid. I don't think the show ended on a high note, but in the end, the bulk of the show was still some of the most moving, ground breaking, original television ever created.
Seasons 1-3 kick ass, the rest are spotty to meh.
What do you think?
by Anonymous | reply 317 | July 7, 2020 4:15 PM
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I think it's time to let it go, OP.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | March 22, 2011 2:45 AM
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Buffy is one of tv's greatest shows. I agree with OP about seasons 6 and 7--but I felt 4 and 5 were almost as good as 1 -3, mostly because Glory was a great villain, and the romance with Riley was well-formulated (if it hadn't been then HUSH wouldn't have been the best episode of the entire series).
That said, the odd thing about the program is that its sense of humor diminishes from season 1, which is very funny, to season 7, which has no humor in it at all. Xander goes from being a light spirit to being a jerk, Willow goes from being comic relief to being a self-absorbed creep, and even Buffy becomes far too dark. All that saves the last two seasons is Spike and the fact that for some reason, he's allowed to shed a little humor on Sunnydale, which desperately needed it by that time.
I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | March 22, 2011 2:50 AM
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The show was a revelation, funny, smart scary.
It covered both big issues and small personal ones.
One of my favorite episode ended with Buffy and Angel walking in the snow...
Also loved the one where Willow tried the spell to make everyone forget...
No, we'll never let it go.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | March 22, 2011 2:54 AM
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It was good if you were still in high school when it aired. I tried watching it as an adult and thought it was pretty lame.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | March 22, 2011 2:56 AM
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[quote]That said, the odd thing about the program is that its sense of humor diminishes from season 1, which is very funny, to season 7, which has no humor in it at all.
I believe that was part of the "growing up" process of the characters. At the end Buffy had to take care of her little sister, bringing home the bacon, stay fit and slay monsters. No time for screwball comedy.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | March 22, 2011 2:57 AM
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i always likes Spike, he provided the little bit of comic relief to the program and he really was the most interesting character towards the end.
Anya was most interesting when she was mean, too.
Season 5 was with Glory? That was a fantastic season too.
I still cry over her "Class Protector" umbrella.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | March 22, 2011 2:57 AM
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Angel is better.
Darker, more dangerous, more epic. Better, more badass characters. Cordelia's last episode, and the episode where Fred becomes Illyria are more heartbreaking than anything ever on Buffy.
But Buffy is better than any and everything else. Second only to Angel. Loved it. The last season was TERRIBLE, but I even love the sixth season. Anya was my favorite.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | March 22, 2011 2:58 AM
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I recently watched the first few episodes of season 1 for the first time. I didn't think it was all that great.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | March 22, 2011 2:59 AM
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The dialogue was so fucking powerful.
Joyce: "Well, it stops now!" Buffy: "No, it doesn't stop. It never stops. Do you think I chose to be like this? Do you have any idea how lonely it is? How dangerous? I would love to be upstairs watching TV or gossiping about boys or, god, even studying! But I have to save the world. Again."
Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons... No friends...No hope. Take all that away... and what's left? Buffy: Me.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | March 22, 2011 3:01 AM
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I was an adult, and I loved every minute. Even when I winced, I loved it. Loved Spike, Angel, Willow, Cordy, Xander, my favorite was Giles. Dawn? Okay, we all make mistakes.%0D %0D I agree that when they lost the humor, they lost a lot of what made it endearing, but it was still good. It's hard to sustain that kind of humor for so long.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | March 22, 2011 3:01 AM
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Buffy's 2nd and 3rd seasons were absolutely brilliant television.
I think I ended up liking Angel better, though. Well until Cordelia left.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | March 22, 2011 3:04 AM
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"Hush" is the single best episode of any TV show, ever. "The Gentlemen" were terrifying.%0D %0D I didn't start the series until a few years after it had finished. Season 7 sucked, the ending sucked, but the rest was very good.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | March 22, 2011 3:04 AM
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I *loved* the nerds, and enjoyed most of Season 6. Yes, it was dark... but come on! The Musical Episode! And Tabula Rasa!%0D %0D I didn't like season 4 when it first aired. In fact, I stopped watching. But re-watching on DVD, I gained a new appreciation for it. Never mind the season finale... the dream episode with the cheese-man.... was one of the best episodes of the series.%0D %0D My favorite season was season 5 during airing. Seasons 1-3 were near perfect. EVERY season had its moments. The weakest season was season 7, but at least the last three episodes were very good, the finale was good, and the episode "Conversations with Dead People" was pretty brilliant.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 13 | March 22, 2011 3:05 AM
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While season 6 was originally airing, I agreed that it was the worst season. But I re-watched it recently and found that I enjoyed it much more. Maybe knowing how things worked out made it easier. I think the fact that it aired right after 9/11 is at least a small part of why fans were so unhappy with the darkness and depression of the storyline.
My favorite all-time show, no question.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | March 22, 2011 3:08 AM
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Andrew was the comic relief for seasons 6 and 7. And he was brilliant at it.%0D
by Anonymous | reply 15 | March 22, 2011 3:09 AM
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My fave Buffy episode was when Angel had went evil and he and Buff were possessed by the lovelorn teacher & student ghosts.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | March 22, 2011 3:10 AM
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[quote]"Hush" is the single best episode of any TV show, ever. "The Gentlemen" were terrifying.
For me it's a tie between "Hush" from Buffy and "Blink" from Doctor Who.
by Anonymous | reply 17 | March 22, 2011 3:10 AM
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[quote]Never mind the season finale... the dream episode with the cheese-man.... was one of the best episodes of the series.
I LOVED Restless. Great episode. Too bad all the mysticism of the Slayer got watered down in season 7 with the potentials.
I think the humor really started to die when they killed Buffy's mother. They made Buffy this middle aged suburban mom over night, and it was awful. And for what, Dawn?
by Anonymous | reply 18 | March 22, 2011 3:10 AM
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Maybe, but "The Body" stands as one of the best episodes of TV ever broadcast. It was pitch perfect. %0D %0D And an entire one hour drama with NO music. No manipulation of your emotions except for the reality of what is happening on the screen.%0D %0D So intense. So real. It was amazing and daring.%0D %0D Every season had at least one just beyond-amazing episode... Hush, The Body, Restless, The Musical episode...%0D %0D Even "The Zeppo", an entire episode shown through the eyes of Xander, while the "A-Plot" occured off-screen. Brilliant. So unlike anything else on TV.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 19 | March 22, 2011 3:15 AM
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That's fair, R8. I watched season 1 occasionally and thought it was a pretty cute show but nothing special. It really starts picking up with Season 2.
When Buffy first went into syndication, it was fun to read the fan newsgroup for the reactions of the new fans. As the first episodes aired, they were all, "this is a fun little show;" then, at a certain point in season 2, they went, "HOLY SHIT! I LOVE THIS SHOW!" It was exactly the same for me.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | March 22, 2011 3:15 AM
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Yeah, Season one was nothing special. But it was the very first episode of Season two that hooked me. Why? Because... at the end of season one, Buffy DIED. And was brought back to live. And at the beginning of season two, they were dealing with the consequences with that.%0D %0D Think about that. It was a SHOCK to see an episode of a series actually deal with consequences of what went before. It didn't just shrug it off, and start fresh.%0D %0D Even better, as the show progressed, events from past seasons would suddenly pop up seasons later... almost like it was planned from the beginning.%0D %0D It made the Buffy-verse seem so real. %0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 21 | March 22, 2011 3:22 AM
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Anya was funny and gorgeous and the best actress on the show. I loved her and hate what they did with her in the last season.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | March 22, 2011 3:23 AM
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Season 1 was entertaining but it wasn't until the last episode of the season (Prophecy Girl), where Buffy takes on the Master and dies, that it really started to come into it's full potential.
That would carry on into Season 2, which was a near perfect season as far as strong stand alone episodes, and yet an amazing story arc (Angelus) holding the season together.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | March 22, 2011 3:24 AM
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The Actress *wanted* to be killed off. Don't blame the writers for that one.%0D
by Anonymous | reply 24 | March 22, 2011 3:27 AM
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SMG was really excellent if Buffy and the rest of the cast, much more so than they were given credit for, mostly because it was from the supernatural/sci-fit/fantasy genre that critics couldn't take seriously.
"Spuffy?" I know people hated them together, but it made sense to me. Buffy hated herself for being with Spike and he knew it, but still loved her.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | March 22, 2011 3:45 AM
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I agree R23. Season 2 is quintessential Buffy, because the stand alone episodes are just as great in terms of entertainment, dialogue and plot development as the whole arc. What I really love about Buffy is that outside of seasons 1 and 6 (which was great in theory but lacking in execution) was that as R21 said, it was very tightly woven. Virtually no detail was left untouched, down to Miss Kitty Fantastico's sudden disappearance. Compare Buffy to a show like LOST where issues/events just fade off the radar and it really makes you appreciate solid writing and story development.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | March 22, 2011 3:50 AM
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My fav ep is the Season 5 finale.
Epic!
by Anonymous | reply 27 | March 22, 2011 4:06 AM
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The entire second half of season 5 is epic. Glory was the best Big Bad. Things seemed so bleak. The shit just kept coming, there was, for the first time in the show, a real sense that Buffy would fail. Ending the season with Buffy's death was perfection.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | March 22, 2011 4:12 AM
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I think the show was saying that life is hell. %0D %0D While the sixth and seventh season had some excellent episodes, overall they were pretty bad. While the beginning of the sixth season had a lot of promise %E2%80%93 how does a hero deal with the fact that she was robbed of her destiny and her free will %E2%80%93 it seemed like they didn%E2%80%99t know how to deal with the darkness they created so they took the underneath themes that were so cleverly already dealt with in previous seasons and rehashed them in a less successful way, instead of taking their characters forward.%0D %0D The ending of the fifth season was perfect, I actually cried as Buffy died at dawn.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | March 22, 2011 9:16 AM
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I thought Season 3 with Faith was when it really hit it's stride. Buffy and Faith always had amazing chemistry. LOVED season 5 and agree that Glory was a fantastic big bad. The way they introduced Dawn was amazing, even if she was not. The show lost it's way once Joss left but there were still some incredible episodes. Season 7 was a let down because the fans were coming up with better ideas than the writers by that stage. Final season highlight for me was when the original cast met up in the hallway, mirroring the first episode. Lowlight was the Egyptian lady appearing out of nowhere with the axe. So sloppy.
BTW while Hush is great it's a of a rip off of the movie Dark City.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | March 22, 2011 9:31 AM
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No, no, what is metaphor?
by Anonymous | reply 33 | March 22, 2011 9:34 AM
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Make no mistake, Seasons 6 and 7 were not bad because Joss wasn't around, they were bad because Joss had unfettered control over the show and no one had power to put on the brakes. Everything that happend was his decision, the buck stopped with him, and anyone who has worked with the man would recognize him in any of Buffy's S6-7 long-winded, egomaniacal, "I'm the only one who can do this" monologues. He wrote that shit.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | March 22, 2011 10:12 AM
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I didn't know that R34. I thought it was because he was spreading himself a little too thin across all his shows. So you've worked with him I take it? Spill.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | March 22, 2011 11:21 AM
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We didn't start watching until season 6- at the time it was perfect for the mood I was in. Dark and depressed after 9/11. As we were watching 6, it was awesome to go back and have marathons of the previous seasons, starting with 1. By the time season 7 came around we were all caught up with Buffy and Angel. Loved every moment, tho I agree the last season of Angel was stronger than Buffy's finale.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | March 22, 2011 11:44 AM
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Funny, I pulled out the DVD's last weekend and starting watching again from Season 1. Am about 8 episodes into Season 2. Great show. Great writing. Really solid cast.%0D %0D Wonder if there's a website that has lots of the behind the scenes gossip ..... you hear that SMG was not well liked, Allyson could be nasty, etc. Wonder who will be the first cast member to tell the tales.%0D %0D Anyone following the Season 8 comic ? Is it any good ?
by Anonymous | reply 37 | March 22, 2011 11:47 AM
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R17 I wish I knew you. When I mentioned that Hush was the best episode on tv, I was thinking that, well, maybe Blink was, too.
by Anonymous | reply 38 | March 22, 2011 1:04 PM
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Season 7 has Restless, and because of that it doesn't suck.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | March 22, 2011 1:13 PM
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Oh, right. I meant Selfless. The Anya episode.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | March 22, 2011 1:20 PM
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The hubby and I love the Buffy series. Every few years, we always go back to this show and watch all of the DVDs in order.
I am not surprised that seasons 6 and 7 are least favored by most fans, but I do not agree with that. I think fans have a hard time dealing with the dark material. Let's face it, all of our beloved characters go through growing pains (this actually starts in season 5 after Joyce dies, but continues through the finale). Buffy dealing with life after death, taking care of bills, a younger sister, a job, etc. Willow dealing with addiction to magic. Xander dealing with a relationship and the fear that he will have a marriage like his dysfunctional parents. These weren't "fun" times, and the transition was hard to watch.
The beauty of re-watching these episodes is that knowing how things will turn out, the surprise is over, and one can appreciate the idea of where the show was going and the superb acting that almost all of the characters conveyed.
This truly was one of the best shows on tv that the hubby and I will continue to watch over and over through the years.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | March 22, 2011 1:28 PM
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"Normal Again," the episode in which Buffy imagines that Sunnyvale and her life as a slayer is all a big psychotic episode, is my favorite episode. It's a fascinating, self-reflexive moment for the series. The symbolism in the parallels between the delusion and the reality are awesome.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 43 | March 22, 2011 1:41 PM
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Watching for the first time on DVD. I have really enjoyed the series up until now.
Season 6 sucked.
Season 7 is a little better but the video (no longer film) says it all. We're about half-way through with Season 7. I'm sick of "crazy" Spike.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm ready to let it go after this season.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | March 22, 2011 1:45 PM
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I think my problem with the last 2 seasons was that while Buffy was always dark, there was still humor and an over lying hope that things would get better. Buffy would prevail, and with the help of her friends, and they'd find the strength to save the world. Again.%0D %0D But season 6 and 7 were just bleak, with no humor, with Buffy just bogged down with one horrible problem after another. They turned her from a quippy and relatively 'normal' 20 year old into a middle aged depressive who had to worry about bills and raising children, on top of slaying and fighting monsters. She stopped trying to be a 'normal' girl, the major underlying arc of Buffy the character. She didn't go to school, she didn't do anything BUT slay. It made the character bitter and humorless and bossy and the show insular (the outside world seemed to shrink to nothing). What were they saving? Why should we care?%0D %0D Plus the characters started to get so disconnected and selfish. They didn't seem like a group of friends in the end, but a bunch of people who had to work together out of obligation instead of mutual affection. The show felt cold, not warm and uplifting.%0D %0D The metaphor was high school is hell, but you could get through it and prevail in the end. That seemed to change in the later seasons to just, life is hell and it just gets worse.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 45 | March 22, 2011 1:45 PM
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I think it is rather brave of the writers to allow the character of Buffy to progress and mature. The life expectancy of Slayers was really short, something Buffy had to deal with every night for years. That would have to wear on a person. She didn't stop being the slayer, but she did seem to become resentful of her responsibilities, which is totally natural. %0D %0D And if anyone thinks SMG can't act, watch The Body. She's amazing.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | March 22, 2011 1:55 PM
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She's a very good actress, R47. Who's arguing otherwise?
by Anonymous | reply 48 | March 22, 2011 1:57 PM
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I disagree about 1-3 being the best. 5 was amazing, and--though I didn't care for 6 when it ran originally--I love it now. The musical ep, Taabula Rasa, evil Willow. All good.
Season 7 and the finale sucked ass for sure. Anyone who tries to deny that is just being a pompous contrarian. They ruined the show with all of that potential slayer nonsense, Buffy did nothing but make speeches and look tired, and even Anya--my favorite character--was watered down. And in the end, SPIKE (a man!) saved the day, undercutting the entire female-empowerment theme of the entire series.
It makes me sad that something so good ended the way it did.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | March 22, 2011 2:18 PM
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The thing that bothered me most about Season 7 is that the writers forgot a key element of the plot: the Slayer line no longer went through Buffy. So all that "If Buffy dies, then the potential will become the slayer" stuff, was just WRONG. %0D %0D When Buffy died the first time, it called a new Slayer. It went through Kendra and then Faith. Right?%0D %0D So all that angst over Buffy dying (yet again) and the potential taking her spot was just bogus and stupid. It took me out of the show.%0D %0D That, and the SUDDEN appearance of the 'watcher who watches the wather' or whatever that old woman with the axe was. The thing that made this show great was how it forshadowed everything, sometimes YEARS in advance. That was so sudden, it felt like a complete cop-out deus ex machina... the writers wrote themselves into a corner and then just made shit up to get them out.%0D %0D I still think season six was pretty strong (though most people seem to dislike it for some reason). But Season 7 pretty much DID suck.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 50 | March 22, 2011 2:19 PM
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"The dialogue was so fucking powerful."%0D %0D Some examples of the "powerful" dialogue:%0D %0D "Say you love me."%0D %0D "Say you want me"%0D %0D "Say you don't love me."%0D %0D "Oz, don't you love me?"%0D %0D "I'm drowning in you!"%0D %0D "I think you should be kissing me now."%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 51 | March 22, 2011 4:04 PM
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Agree with R45 too. I didn't like how the Scooby Gang turned on Buffy in season 7. All of a sudden they don't have her back? It felt like a misstep.
I think another big problem with the last two seasons were Human baddies rather than monsters. The show always dealt with serious issues well but you get rid of monsters and humour and it's not so much fun. (and yes I know they had the scary vamps in season 7 but they were the lamest vampires ever). Warren the Nerd hated women, add the Spike attempted rape storyline and then all the ungrateful potential Slayers. It was hard going.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | March 22, 2011 11:13 PM
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[quote]So all that angst over Buffy dying (yet again) and the potential taking her spot was just bogus and stupid. It took me out of the show.
I think you're confused. There was never any thought about Buffy causing a potential to take her spot. The potentials came about because something was killing all of the potentials, so Buffy and friends took them in to protect them.
Anyway, Season 7 was awful. The Anya episode was good, and so was the Conversations with Dead People episode, but the entire season diverted too much attention from the core group. Plus, the overall arc of the season was just dull, and everyone looked bored.
by Anonymous | reply 53 | March 22, 2011 11:13 PM
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Forgot--Normal Again was a great episode, and if you think about it, it was probably reality, and the other seven years fantasy. Which is a real mind-fuck. But in a good way.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | March 22, 2011 11:49 PM
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[quote]It was a SHOCK to see an episode of a series actually deal with consequences of what went before.
I hope you're pretty.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | March 22, 2011 11:51 PM
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R55, you seem unaware that most TV shows 'wipe the slate clean' between episodes. Not necessarily for major plot arcs, but certainly for psychological responses. Someone is traumatized in one episode, and suddenly just fine in the next. Even major plot points fade and are ignored (LOST was horrible with this).%0D %0D In Buffy and Angel, every action left emotional and psychological scars that were echoed throughout not just the next few episodes, but often through the rest of the series.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 56 | March 23, 2011 12:08 AM
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I hope you're pretty and you put out.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | March 23, 2011 12:19 AM
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Normal Again was brilliant.
I have always thought that that episode should have been the very last one.
Was all that we saw real? Or was it the disturbed mind of a sad, lonely girl?
by Anonymous | reply 58 | March 23, 2011 12:42 AM
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I was 23 and I loved Buffy as well. Almost all of the episodes were favs. What sticks out at this moment:
*The last seconds of "Killed by Death" are hilarious. The episode rocks of course. *"Once more with Feeling"...Fantastic!!!! *"Angel" God, I was in love with Angel, but when he kissed Buffy with the crucifix burning his chest...awesome!!! *They could have gotten a hotter lesbian than Tara...just saying.
Just to name a few...
by Anonymous | reply 59 | March 23, 2011 12:46 AM
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Oh god, I just remember "The Body".
by Anonymous | reply 61 | March 23, 2011 3:33 PM
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So many good episodes.%0D %0D And even in not-so-good episodes, so many good moments.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 62 | March 24, 2011 2:49 AM
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I just watched the Hush again and the episode where her roomate Kathy is a demon. SMG has great comic timing but the fashions are so bad it's distracting. The shit they made Willow wear!
by Anonymous | reply 63 | March 24, 2011 4:18 AM
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Best to worst seasons in order: Five, Three, Two, Six, Four, One, Seven
by Anonymous | reply 64 | March 26, 2011 5:15 AM
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The episode where Buffy's mom died was just about the saddest tv show death I've ever watched.
I'll MARY! myown self.
by Anonymous | reply 65 | March 26, 2011 5:28 AM
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Watched the marathon that was on a few days ago. Love this show! I didn't care for the Angel-centric episodes, outside of those, it rocked.
by Anonymous | reply 66 | March 26, 2011 7:43 AM
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I don't really like vampires.
by Anonymous | reply 67 | March 26, 2011 9:13 AM
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SMG can act. She *is* Buffy (which is probably why her career fizzled out when the show ended).
The Body was THE best single episode of any show ever.
Hush and Tabula Rasa and Once More With Feeling, and Hell's Bells were excellent episodes.
Season 7 while weak, made sense. It ended the way it should have. All the "big bads" in one season to end the series. Brilliant idea.
I just didn't like the Kennedy's and Rona, the awful bitch.
Season 6 was good, but Willow really got me annoyed.
And they did ruin Xander's character, for sure.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | March 26, 2011 2:07 PM
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I love how no one has a cell phone and the only one who gets on the computer is Willow. It's dated in a strange way because it's not that old but still, so different. %0D %0D I've been watching the X-Files season 1 for the first time. It's dated is some similar ways.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | March 28, 2011 12:07 AM
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R32: [quote] BTW while Hush is great it's a of a rip off of the movie Dark City.[/quote]%0D %0D I've never thought of that before. The monsters from Hush and the aliens from Dark City may be slightly similar looks-wise, but it's a stretch to say that Hush is a rip off.%0D %0D R58: [quote] Normal Again was brilliant.%0D I have always thought that that episode should have been the very last one.%0D %0D I completely disagree. People would have been pissed at that, it's the "it was all a dream" cop-out that's already been done on St. Elsewhere/Newhart and other shows. Placing Normal Again where it is in the schedule makes it similar to the two episodes in Deep Space Nine where the main character hallucinates another existence and temporarily has a problem with what is real and what isn't real, but there is an explanation for it within the show. If Normal Again was the series finale, I would have had the feeling that I just wasted 7 years watching somebody else's dream. But placing it in S6 makes it more ambiguous, and fans can believe whatever they want.%0D %0D I loved the idea of story arcs that ran throughout the season, and the Big Bads for each season. Glory was the best. But I also liked the Faith/Mayor combo very much.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | March 30, 2011 8:57 AM
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I agree. I would have been pissed if they ended it with "it was all a dream."%0D %0D I actually think Season 5, with Buffy dying to save her sister, would have been a good way to end the series. If kind of had that end of show feel to it. The UPN years felt tacked on and I hated the series finale in Season 7.
by Anonymous | reply 71 | March 30, 2011 2:22 PM
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I loved the series finale of season 7... I just hated so much of what lead up to it.%0D
by Anonymous | reply 72 | March 31, 2011 6:18 AM
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Well put, R70. I totally agree. I loved "Normal Again" but ending the series that way would have pissed me off. I took a lot of writing classes in college as electives, and using "it was all a dream" is a major deus ex machina cop-out that has been done to death. It's lazy. They did well on Buffy to make it ambiguous.
Then again, the way they DID end the series was almost as bad, with the Slayers being almost completely useless while Spike and the "Magical Amulet that Came from Nowhere" saved the day.
And R64, that is EXACTLY how I rate the seasons from best to worst. 5, 3, 2, 6, 4, 1, 7.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | March 31, 2011 2:09 PM
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R49, You do know that Angel was supposed to wear that magical amulet-- not Spike? And that it was sent by Wolfman and Hart.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | April 1, 2011 1:37 PM
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Yes, R74. I saw the episodes.
It's still a bunch of lazy, deus-ex-machina crap that came out of nowhere.
Like the lady with the battle axe who "watches the watchers."
Right, chica, and we've never heard of you before because???
Season 7 was utter shite. I will pick a fistfight with anyone who claims otherwise.
by Anonymous | reply 75 | April 2, 2011 12:55 AM
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Buffy (Best to Worst): 3, 2, 5, 6, 1, 4, 7
Angel (Best to Worst): 2, 1, 3, 4, 5
by Anonymous | reply 76 | April 5, 2011 7:54 PM
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Now up to Season 6 episode 4 .......must say the 'Nerds/Trio' are KILLING me. Forgot how annoying they were (even though Andrew by himself was fun in Season 7 .......here he's just an eye roller with his 'Buffy's a hot chick' stuff .......please you were more into Xander and Spike !!)%0D %0D For me Season 5 has been the best. Clare Kramer as Glory was an awesome 'Big Bad' and I liked both the Spike and Dawn focus (sue me !).%0D %0D I'm surprised 10 years later how *few* of the guest stars are really recognizable ..... I really thought I'd be recognizing more folks that are well known today, but not so much.%0D %0D And what was UP with Season 6's '... and Allyson Hannigan as Willow' ? When did she become Susan Sullivan as Maggie ? (and why would that be the prestige spot ?). Guess she knew it was never going to be called 'Willow The Annoying Witch', so she wasn't going to ever see top billing.
by Anonymous | reply 77 | April 11, 2011 11:19 PM
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R37/R77, somebody had to take that spot after Anthony Stewart Head stopped being a regular. Allyson Hannigan made sense since she is an original, and at that time was doing good with the America Pie movies.
Glory is definitely the best. The Nerd Trio didn't really bug me so much, except for Warren.
Amber Tamblyn has a part as Dawn's friend in Season 6. Does anyone know who Amber Tamblyn is, or is that just me?
by Anonymous | reply 78 | April 12, 2011 12:01 AM
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Never heard of the bitch.
by Anonymous | reply 79 | April 12, 2011 12:05 AM
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I *loved* the nerd trio! They were fucking HILARIOUS! Loved the van, the horn sound, the debates over the best bond, best kirk, etc. LOVED them.%0D %0D Plus I totally had a crush on Andrew.%0D
by Anonymous | reply 80 | April 12, 2011 1:56 AM
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When Giles left, you really noticed it. When he came back, things felt a lot better.%0D %0D Sorta like when Cordy left Angel... and came back for that one episode, and everything just felt so much better.%0D
by Anonymous | reply 81 | April 12, 2011 2:00 AM
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I hated the nerds too. Warren was ugly as hell and it really bugged me the way he kept calling Buffy a bitch. His storyline (killing his girlfriend, hating women in general) was a little too dark for me.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | April 13, 2011 10:41 AM
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I was annoyed by the nerds too, but is it wrong that I found Warren kind of hot?
I'm a sucker for hairy chests.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | April 13, 2011 2:09 PM
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LOVED the nerds. But HATED Warren.%0D %0D Johnathan was so cute, and Andrew was just adorable. Warren was loathesome, and I cheered when he got flayed alive and killed. I was actually sad when Johnathan was killed.%0D %0D How can you hate the nerds? They were hilarious!%0D
by Anonymous | reply 85 | April 14, 2011 12:32 AM
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I guess I just liked my big bads to be BADDER, not more comedic. Their schtick of being 'supervillains' just didn't entertain me much. I did like Andrew in season seven and Jonathan was alright in his smaller doses too. %0D %0D Season 6's best thing thus far is Anya. She's being given lots of funny stuff. And I haven't gotten there yet, but I like Willow more as a 'big bad' at the end of the season than the earlier part of the season where she was all 'big deal, I like using magic all the time. So what ?'.
by Anonymous | reply 86 | April 14, 2011 1:25 AM
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Well, season 6 had the whole 'coming back from teh dead' thing as well as 'evil willow' as the real big bad... the 3 nerds were more of a comedic distration. They thought they were the big back for the season (and kept trying to brag about it) but ... they weren't. They were a joke.%0D %0D A very funny joke.%0D %0D The season was so dark already I don't think they could have done a real, 'bigger big bad' than that without making it unbearable.%0D %0D
by Anonymous | reply 87 | April 14, 2011 1:36 AM
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I loved the season when Buffy went dark and was fucking Spike all over the place, but I think everyone else hated it. I'm not sure why.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | April 14, 2011 1:38 AM
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My favorite Big Bad was Angelus because he was able to break Buffy in a way no other villain was able to do and it took months for her to gain the strength to 'kill' him.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | April 14, 2011 1:43 AM
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Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons... No friends...No hope. Take all that away... and what's left?
Buffy: Me.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | April 14, 2011 1:44 AM
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I really don't understand the love of Andrew that the fans and creaters have. I think he's disgusting. He felt absolutely no remorse for any of his actions that resulted in the death of several women. He throws Tara's death in Willow's face. Stabs his best friend in the gut and bleeds him. Doesn't show a single bit of real guilt about it. But we're supposed to find him cute and funny? He shows up later parading around the world with beautiful women on his arm, when he's clearly gay.
Hate Andrew.
by Anonymous | reply 91 | May 2, 2011 1:04 AM
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r54, r58, r70, r71, r73
I actually thought that in the context of the show, in the episode "Normal Again", the mental institution was an alternate reality where there was no magic or monsters and was just as real as the universe with vampires, slayers and the like; what was happening is that she was shunting between the two. The fact that there was a scene with the doctor (and I think her parents) after Buffy said goodbye and left for the final time seemed to imply this.
It's one of my favourite episodes (and my favourite from Season 6) just for this.
by Anonymous | reply 92 | October 12, 2011 12:33 AM
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R92, it was the only episode in the entire run where the final shot wasn't in the Buffyverse... it was a shot of the asylum.
by Anonymous | reply 93 | October 12, 2011 1:05 AM
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I love the musical episode!
by Anonymous | reply 95 | October 12, 2011 3:48 AM
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Loved Andrew just for the way he'd say VmPIRAS.
by Anonymous | reply 96 | October 12, 2011 4:05 AM
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Seasons 2,3, and 5 are television at their finest. Seasons 1 and 4 are good tv. And seasons 6 and 7 are decent as far as any other show would be concerned, but crappy in the Buffy-verse.
by Anonymous | reply 97 | October 12, 2011 4:51 AM
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On a Facebook poll, Season 6 had the most votes for best season, but the majority of voters didn't vote for it.
by Anonymous | reply 99 | October 12, 2011 8:19 AM
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Watching ANGEL on TNT now and Jeremy Renner is playing the villain of the week and he is HOT AS FUCK! Even in vamp face.
by Anonymous | reply 100 | October 12, 2011 12:00 PM
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It was crap. Overrated, unfettered crap.
by Anonymous | reply 101 | October 12, 2011 12:38 PM
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You hated it, yet watched all 7 seasons? Were you locked in your basement?
by Anonymous | reply 102 | October 12, 2011 12:49 PM
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My ex-partner watched it over a couple of months. I endured it in exchange for blow jobs.
But nice to see you're articulate enough to construct a cogent argument.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | October 12, 2011 1:19 PM
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So your boyfriend would only blow you in exchange for you watching the show? You really do sound like a loser, R103.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | February 3, 2015 12:22 AM
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It really hit stride with season 2. But what happened to Sarah? She becomes a waif.
by Anonymous | reply 105 | February 3, 2015 12:26 AM
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How pissed is SMG that someone who was essentially a glorified walk-on ended up becoming an Academy Award nominee several times over?
by Anonymous | reply 106 | February 3, 2015 12:40 AM
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nicholas brendon was so sexy
by Anonymous | reply 107 | February 3, 2015 12:41 AM
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R105 - Yes, Sarah Michelle Gellar. She gets progressively thinner and frailer looking.
by Anonymous | reply 109 | February 3, 2015 12:59 AM
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[quote]So your boyfriend would only blow you in exchange for you watching the show? You really do sound like a loser, [R103].
Nonsense, R104. Sounds like the best deal ever.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | February 3, 2015 1:03 AM
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I never understood the appeal of this show. Its ffans would go into raptures over it, ecstasies over it. But I never did understand what was so fascinating about a fantasy tv series about vampires and witches and demons. It was just SILLY.
I find Sarah Michelle Gellar completely unbearable, which is one reason one I never was a fan. She underwent a complete transformation to play Buffy; dyed blonde hair, green contact lenses, a nose whittled down to nothing, heavy makeup. And that voice of hers! Like nails on a blackboard.
I couldn't stant Alyson Hannigan, either. Her character Willow seemed downright mentally challenged. And her retarded little girl voice was as bad as Gellar's. And despite being homely as a horse her character nonetheless had no trouble attracting hot lesbians (she inexplicably turned gay during the course of the series).
I watched this show to see what the fucking fuss was about. But I never thought it was what it was cracked up to be. I thought James Marsters was hot, though. He's the main reason I started watching it.
by Anonymous | reply 111 | February 3, 2015 1:27 AM
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[quote] But I never did understand what was so fascinating about a fantasy tv series about vampires and witches and demons. It was just SILLY.
How could you watch it and not come to realise it was about the perils of high school as much as it was about witches and demons. They even had Buffy end up working in a high school after college.
by Anonymous | reply 112 | February 3, 2015 1:32 AM
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If you watched the show and couldn't connect that the vampires, witches, and demons were metaphors, then yeah... the show probably wasn't for you.
by Anonymous | reply 113 | February 3, 2015 1:37 AM
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I liked when Angel took his gigantic cock out of Buffy's mouth and dick slapped her face.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 114 | February 3, 2015 1:38 AM
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Love that Buffy is on Pivot TV now.
It has been long enough that I don't remember the episodes word for word anymore. Love re-discovering them.
by Anonymous | reply 115 | February 4, 2015 1:00 AM
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Watching "Afterlife" when Buffy comes back from the dead ( a second time) after a spell from Willow. They woke her from the dead...but didn't think about taking her out of the grave first.
by Anonymous | reply 116 | February 4, 2015 1:10 AM
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People love the episode "The Body" so much, and rightly so; but I thought it was a huge cop-out to kill off Buffy's mom. She was an underused character.
by Anonymous | reply 117 | February 4, 2015 1:23 AM
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R117 I liked the episode. I think Anya's scene where she's talking about the fruit punch was the highlight for me.
by Anonymous | reply 118 | February 4, 2015 2:21 AM
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R118-
Anya's speech is a highlight of "The Body" and the series.
How someone can watch the show and miss the "High School as Horror Story" (complete with PTSD!") metaphor...wow.
by Anonymous | reply 119 | February 4, 2015 2:26 AM
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R117, Joyce was the most moronic TV parent ever.
by Anonymous | reply 120 | February 4, 2015 2:28 AM
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DL fave Wentworth Miller played a swim team star/sea monster in Go Fish.
Steam room!
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 121 | February 4, 2015 2:43 AM
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"Angel" was the better show.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | February 4, 2015 7:46 AM
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Angel had some fantastic observations about the grown-up world. Come on, a law firm that represents evil? How great is that?...but better than Buffy? I don't think so. The Cordelia plot line towards the end was such a mess.
by Anonymous | reply 124 | February 4, 2015 11:03 AM
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I'm in the minority in that I loved s6. For me, it was all about the end of youth and the hard realities and inevitable unhappiness of adulthood. Buffy's tragic revelation after being resurrected, "I think I was in heaven," was a series highlight for me.
I hated s7, though.
by Anonymous | reply 125 | February 4, 2015 2:05 PM
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I was going to post the same thing, R118 and R119. Anya not being able to comprehend human death was heartbreaking. She was so childlike in that instance. I hated that she was killed in the series finale, but all of the supernatural world had to come to an end. I would rather have seen her reunite with Xander, though.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | February 4, 2015 2:43 PM
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Are you talking about Amy Adams, R106? I imagine Sarah would be more pissed that Amy played the same role as her in the failed TV pilot/direct to video prequel of Cruel Intentions and is now a huge movie star while Sarah can barely get arrested.
by Anonymous | reply 127 | February 4, 2015 3:09 PM
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Speaking of Academy Awards and Buffy, Oscar-winner Joel Grey did a brief stint on BtVS as the demon Doc.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 128 | February 4, 2015 3:34 PM
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[quote]I hated that she was killed in the series finale, but all of the supernatural world had to come to an end. I would rather have seen her reunite with Xander, though.
I didn't mind that Anya was killed... but what did bother me was the way she was killed and how it was sort of just tossed aside. I know, I know, that's War, and there are casualties, etc. But I thought the character deserved more than that.
And I would rather have seen Xander get killed off.
by Anonymous | reply 129 | February 4, 2015 3:57 PM
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So many great episodes in this show. I agree with other posters that Seasons 2-3 were the best. Seasons 4-5 were very good. Seasons 6-7 just lost the humor and got too bogged down in darkness only. As others have observed, what made Buffy great is how they injected humor in the dialogue but were still able to have great dramatic moments.
Although Season 6 is my least favorite, I still love the finale of that season when Willow went dark and vengeful after Tara was killed. I loved how it was Xander who brought her back from the brink by simply telling her he loved her. Buffy could always come up with those moments even when it was no longer at its best.
I've never been a huge fan of how the show ended. I thought the finale could have been better.
by Anonymous | reply 130 | February 4, 2015 4:33 PM
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I was hooked on episode 1, where a high school guy turned vampire, that seemed to be a main character, was bumped by somebody in a hurry, probably Cordelia, and got accidentally staked and killed. It was a head-fake that I liked for the surprise.
Also, when Cordelia first observes the drama, she tells her friends something like "I'm sorry, I have to call everyone I know". Perfect.
Later episodes truly sucked, though. They ran out of steam.
by Anonymous | reply 131 | February 4, 2015 4:46 PM
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Sarah is good at delivering burn lines.
by Anonymous | reply 132 | February 4, 2015 10:05 PM
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Buffy is one of the all time truly great iconic television series ever, with brilliant writing and many OMG episodes.
I loved Willow and Tara. I loved Joyce and Dawn too.
This show occupies a special place in my heart!
by Anonymous | reply 133 | February 5, 2015 2:08 AM
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No mention of the wonderful Darla?
by Anonymous | reply 134 | February 5, 2015 2:35 AM
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R134 I loved the Darla character, especially when she was brought back on Angel. I loved the vulnerability and comedy they gave her character on Angel.
by Anonymous | reply 135 | February 5, 2015 3:53 AM
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Note on Darla!
I attended a Comic Con a few years ago where Julie Benz was speaking and I got to ask her a question during her session. I asked which of her three Darla death scenes (staked by Angel at the Bronze, offed by The Master on her syphilitic deathbed, or self-staking as she gave birth in the alley on Angel), and she shared a nice anecdote about her favorite (with The Master): she told the make-up people to go to town with her syphilis sores, and when they held up a mirror to her face, she was horrified by how terrible she looked, but it was too late to change it. She was a fun speaker.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 136 | February 5, 2015 4:03 AM
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All the shows with David B and his hot bod and bulge were the best for me.
by Anonymous | reply 137 | February 5, 2015 4:05 AM
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For me S3 will always be the best. Faith and the mayor.
Buffy's nervousness that she has to kill Faith. SMG played that so well. You couldn't discern if the anxiety was from the fear of having to face Faith or that she has to kill someone that she cared about--AGAIN. Zander saying "I don't want to lose you" because she has to kill a human.
But Faith/Eliza Dushku is so awesome that she took over every scene she was in. I bet SMG hated her.
I read the Dark Horse comics (Buffy, Angel and Faith). Andrew finally came out, and Giles was killed by(guess who) and but brought back to life.
by Anonymous | reply 138 | February 5, 2015 12:07 PM
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Also the scene from "Go Fish" when Nicolas Brendon comes out of the locker in swim trunks is sooo motherfuckin' hot.
by Anonymous | reply 139 | February 5, 2015 12:09 PM
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[quote]Buffy's nervousness that she has to kill Faith. SMG played that so well. You couldn't discern if the anxiety was from the fear of having to face Faith or that she has to kill someone that she cared about--
I agree. And I think that's best illustrated in the scene where Faith says to her, "That's mine," and she replies, "You're about to get it back." Something about the way Sarah delivers that line is mixed with fear and hesitation.
[quote]But Faith/Eliza Dushku is so awesome that she took over every scene she was in. I bet SMG hated her.
Also agree here too. SMG also probably hate that Eliza was supposed to get a spin-off too.
I've always thought SMG was an underrated actress. I think she actually can be good, but I think Eliza was even better. I think a good example was in the episode where they switch. Eliza is much better at portraying Buffy in Faith's body than SMG was as Faith in Buffy's. Eliza nailed Buffy as Faith... SMG, not so much.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | February 5, 2015 1:41 PM
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R138 did the comics bring Oz back? He was one of my favorites.
by Anonymous | reply 141 | February 5, 2015 1:44 PM
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Dushku was great as Faith, but let's be real, - the crazy, dangerous, "out there" character is a lot easier to play, and naturally more showy.
by Anonymous | reply 142 | February 5, 2015 2:01 PM
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But again, R142, Eliza showed she could do more than "showy," in the swap episode. She was by far better than Geller was.
by Anonymous | reply 143 | February 5, 2015 2:27 PM
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I haven't seen Buffy in years and reading this reminds me of how much I loved this series. Truly groundbreaking and emotional--I was so upset when Joyce died and Buffy died--and then Tara. Sometimes I was so into this show, it upset me so much I could hardly stand to watch it. The only bad thing about it was the last season and the finale. Fans were cheated. But it still stands as one of the all time great television movie.
No love for Anthony Stewart Head? Always thought he was foxy.
I HATED the creepy little high school principal. HA! So many are like that in real life!
by Anonymous | reply 144 | February 6, 2015 1:28 AM
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Out of curiousity R144, in what way do you think fans were cheated in the Finale?
by Anonymous | reply 145 | February 6, 2015 1:40 AM
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R145, I thought the finale was weak. Although I liked the idea they were going onto other hellmouths...like Cleveland.
I didn't like the "all girls vampire killer school," and it seemed they were rushing the show to a conclusion. I was angry they killed off Tara--totally unnecessary. I LOVED that character and Amber's interpretation of her. Why hasn't Amber done much since?
I am not saying I could have done it better, but I felt the last ep and the last season, were weak. Kind of like how petered out True Blood was--but that show was so uneven after season one anyway.
I think Buffy could have had a happier ending, a more significant one.
by Anonymous | reply 147 | February 6, 2015 1:51 AM
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R141, Yes. He lives in Nepal and is married.
by Anonymous | reply 148 | February 6, 2015 1:55 AM
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This is a minority opinion, but I hated Faith in her first go around. Not love to hate - just hate. She was such an obnoxious brat and did not really show any shades of gray. I did like her when she came back (was that on Angel?), and they did a better job of bringing back from the dark than they did having her descend in to dark.
I think SMG could be excellent as Buffy, but not sure she has a wide acting range. I starting rewatching the series on Netflix for the first time in about ten years. I am on season 2 and just watched the Halloween episode. She is supposed to think she is a 18th century damsel, and the acting is pretty painful. Still when it is in her wheelhouse (such as season 1 finale) she nails it. I also noticed by that Halloween episode she has almost completed the physical blonde - waif transformation. I think even earlier in that season she still had some curves.
I hate to say it but Willow and Zander could be a bit annoying with their alternating between being sad sacks or trying to do a witty quip. They were definitely a little green in acting when they first started.
Also just watched the first Spike - Drucilla episode. Well done introduction and did a good job giving them unique personalities. A big improvement on the somewhat generic season 1 master and evil child. Watching Spike when he was pure bad ass - it is almost too bad he was not just a one or two season villain who goes out with a bang while remaining pure evil.
It was interesting to watch how much of a bit player and how separate from the group Cordy was in the first season. I wonder if Joss was watching the episodes and realized part way through he needed to use her more and incorporate her into the group she finally has an episode featuring her and fleshing her out more right before the finale and brings her into the group with the finale.
Angel really is much more the cookie cutter mysterious brooder fantasy older boyfriend in the early episodes. He has none of the quirks, personality or comedic timing he has later on in his own series.
by Anonymous | reply 149 | February 6, 2015 2:04 AM
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R149, thanks. Was just interested in what your thoughts were. I thought the entire last season was very disjointed and the continuity errors were atrocious.
I did find it interesting that Buffy basically doesn't speak the entire last 10 minutes or so of the episode.
by Anonymous | reply 150 | February 6, 2015 2:07 AM
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David Boreanaz was a HORRIBLE actor during Season One of Buffy. He was absolutely gorgeous though, which is what landed him the job.
by Anonymous | reply 151 | February 6, 2015 2:11 AM
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The dialogue in this show was frequently soap opera bad. Some examples:
Buffy to Angel: "Say you don't love me."
Buffy to Spike: "Say you love me. Say you want me."
Spike in reply to Buffy: "I love you. I always want you."
Willow to Oz, piteously: "Oz...don't you love me?"
Oz in reply to Willow: "All my life, I've never loved anything else."
Tara to Willow: "I think you should be kissing me now."
Poor Spike, after becoming a lovesick swain pining for Buffy, cries out to her: "I'm drowning in you!"
It's the stuff of soap operas. REALLY bad.
by Anonymous | reply 152 | February 6, 2015 2:18 AM
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R151 I think it was his bulge that landed him the job.
by Anonymous | reply 153 | February 6, 2015 2:19 AM
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R150 was actually in response to R147.
To R150, I think what you said about Faith was actually how you were supposed to view her. I don't thinks he was supposed to be likable in Season 3. I think you were supposed to side with Buffy and view her the way Buffy did. Subsequently, with Faith's appearances on Angel and Season 7, I think you were supposed to see her as someone who had evolved, grown, and "forgive" her for the mistakes she made. Sort of like Angel.
That was something I actually thought was interesting and that they should have explored more.. Buffy's jealousy over the connection Faith and Angel had by Season 7 and her feeling like Faith had "taken" yet another thing from her and got to cave this connection with Angel (via Mindwalk and her Redemption) that she (Buffy) would never have.
As far as SMG acting goes, I think she showed her chops at the end of Season 2 when she confronts her mom in the kitchen. I was impressed with what SMG did and how it played out.
by Anonymous | reply 154 | February 6, 2015 2:24 AM
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R154 was in response to R149.
by Anonymous | reply 155 | February 6, 2015 2:27 AM
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I think the best part of Buffy is when Xander and Willow eat each other out.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 156 | February 6, 2015 3:07 AM
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R154 "As far as SMG acting goes, I think she showed her chops at the end of Season 2 when she confronts her mom in the kitchen."
Yes!
by Anonymous | reply 157 | February 6, 2015 3:12 AM
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Goddamn it, Mom, I said I don't want your fucking pancakes. I'm a slayer. Carbs will only slow me down!
by Anonymous | reply 158 | February 6, 2015 3:17 AM
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R158 - probably explains the weight loss.
by Anonymous | reply 159 | February 6, 2015 3:21 AM
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I really like the show, but I think Willow and Xander--especially Willow--are the weakest parts of the show in seasons 1-6. I liked them better when they were vampires in the first Anya episode in Season 3. The attempted humor that those two provide is the most dated aspect of the show. It's cheesy in an irritating way. Willow is fucking awkward to the point where you want to punch her in the face.
by Anonymous | reply 160 | February 9, 2015 2:06 PM
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I remember Allison on WWHL being asked which season did SMG stop caring about the show, and she said S3 because she was getting movie offers then. It seems to me that she got bored around S4.
What I like about the comic is that it is a comic, and the writers can really let loose, and they're not bound to a TV show. However that's also the problem I have with it.
Oh R140, I do love you so. The way SMG delivered that line should've gotten her an Emmy or something.
by Anonymous | reply 161 | February 9, 2015 4:11 PM
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[quote] It seems to me that she got bored around S4.
Who could blame her? Season 4 was a snoozefest.
by Anonymous | reply 162 | February 9, 2015 4:29 PM
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[quote]Oh [R140], I do love you so. The way SMG delivered that line should've gotten her an Emmy or something.
Yeah, I mean, I think that scene in the kitchen with her mom, at the end of Season 2, I think that should have gotten SMG an Emmy nod.
Oh, and I love you too. Let's make out or something.
by Anonymous | reply 163 | February 9, 2015 4:31 PM
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I thought S4 had some good episodes. I really liked the one when everyone thought Buffy was paranoid because she thought her roommate was an alien. That was funny.
by Anonymous | reply 164 | February 9, 2015 4:38 PM
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Actually, I think Season 6 was the best season. There was something more sophisticated about it. It had a lot of boring episodes, but this was the season that was the most character driven.
by Anonymous | reply 165 | February 9, 2015 6:02 PM
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My bad. I spelled Alyson wrong.
So which actor from the show is the most successful?
Hannigan, Boreanaz or Green?
by Anonymous | reply 166 | February 9, 2015 6:43 PM
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R1, not Boreanaz, it would be either Seth Green or Hannigan. Probably Green.
by Anonymous | reply 167 | February 9, 2015 7:05 PM
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Really? Angel was on for 5 seasons and "Bones" for 11.
by Anonymous | reply 168 | February 9, 2015 7:24 PM
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Sorry Amy, you were only a guest star. A forgettable one at that! I mean whatsherface with two Oscars was in the movie.
by Anonymous | reply 170 | February 9, 2015 7:52 PM
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Yes, R170.. forgettable... but with a real career! Which is more than I can say for those other bitches!
by Anonymous | reply 171 | February 9, 2015 8:23 PM
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Allyson is the more successful. Boreanaz does not have her movie career.
by Anonymous | reply 172 | February 9, 2015 8:46 PM
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I am 7 episodes into Season 6 of Buffy and I have to agree with some of the people above who say that this season is handles more things involving responsibility and maturity. It seems like it really is about coming to terms with adulthood. I can see why people didn't like it when it first aired. But I think it is a really strong season so far, much better than season 4. I hope it only gets better from here. And the fact that Buffy died. Wow. And not just a five minute death like at the end of season 1 but a really crazy, life changing one. How could people expect the show to be so carefree after that (and her battle with Glory)?
by Anonymous | reply 173 | February 21, 2015 9:11 PM
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Was anyone else really disgusted at Spike for his attempted rape of Buffy in Season 6 episode Seeing Red? WTF?!
by Anonymous | reply 174 | February 23, 2015 12:00 AM
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Oh my god, Anya R160... I forgot Anya. She had some of the best lines. Capitalistic , bunny-hating revenge demon! That actress didn't go very far...too bad.
by Anonymous | reply 175 | March 1, 2015 11:11 AM
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Not only didn't she go very far, she's also a complete bitch on Twitter every single time someone dares call her Anya. I've never seen anything like it.
It was so disappointing seeing this as well because she was one of my favourite characters.
by Anonymous | reply 176 | March 1, 2015 11:28 AM
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Anya should have remained evil after Xander jilted her. I think it would have been a weightier storyline, imo, than some of the villains Buffy fought in the end because of the former connection.
For some reason I really enjoy watching Buffy fight with friends who become enemies (Faith, Anya, Willow). So intense.
by Anonymous | reply 177 | March 1, 2015 11:35 AM
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I do think its weird how its Spike who ends up saving the world, not Buffy or the other slayers. Doesn't that go against the entire feminist premise of the show?
by Anonymous | reply 178 | March 1, 2015 5:54 PM
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Not really R178. Every season was basically filled with someone else saving the world. I hated the character of Xander and really hated how he was instrumental in so many of the season finales.
S1: if not for Xander, Buffy would be dead and therefore, wouldn't have saved the world.
S2: By not telling Buffy that Willow could curse Angel again, she sends Angel to hell.
S3: His military training and knowledge of explosives is what ends up offing the Mayor.
S4: Again, his military training is what helps Buffy take care of Adam.
S6: His emotional connection to Willow is what saves the world from doom, not Buffy.
by Anonymous | reply 179 | March 1, 2015 6:02 PM
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Or rather, R178, I should have said, I don't disagree with you that it goes against the feminist premise of the show, but it wasn't an uncommon thing for the writers to do.
by Anonymous | reply 180 | March 1, 2015 6:05 PM
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Don't know if anyone has seen this, but I really like this interview.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 182 | March 5, 2015 1:26 AM
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Nicholas Brendon arrested again (third time) at another convention.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 183 | March 16, 2015 3:32 AM
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Sarah claimed that she did most of her own stunts, and that rubbed her stunt double the wrong way.
by Anonymous | reply 184 | March 16, 2015 3:34 AM
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Eliza Dushku's complete lack of acting skills was evident on "Dollhouse." The premise hinged on her being able to portray different personalities.
They were all the same - Faith.
Every other cast member outshone her.
Joss Whedon clearly was smitten. The actress playing Skye, on "Agents Of SHIELD", is practically a Dushku knockoff.
Sad that Brendon is such a mess. He was on tgat failed "Kitchen Confidential" TV series with Bradkey Cooper.
The problem, I think, is that Whedon is talented, maybe a genius, but he's a royal asshole.
by Anonymous | reply 185 | March 16, 2015 7:25 AM
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I am slowly re-watching it for the first time in about ten years. I am half way through the second season. Joyce and Miss Calendar kind of bug me this time around.
The second season is much better than the first, but just watched an episode involving evil eggs that would have been in line with a lot of the first season episodes.
by Anonymous | reply 186 | March 16, 2015 12:32 PM
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Wonder Woman was much, much better.
by Anonymous | reply 187 | March 16, 2015 1:03 PM
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R186, I watched the whole series a few weeks ago and the first season is so cheesy. It's almost like a completely different show from the second seasons and on, although there are a few good (but not essential) episodes in it. That scene where Buffy, Angel and Xander are walking together to defeat the Master and the theme music plays...well, that was just laughable. If I were telling someone to watch Buffy, I would recommend watching only the first and last episode from Season 1 and move directly on to season 2. Season 2 is where Buffy really begins, from that very first episode where Buffy deals with the fact that she died.
R185, I like Faith but I agree with you. I don't understand the person here who keeps saying Eliza was a better actress than SMG. No way.
by Anonymous | reply 188 | March 16, 2015 1:25 PM
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[quote] I like Faith but I agree with you. I don't understand the person here who keeps saying Eliza was a better actress than SMG. No way.
Eliza was better than SMG in the episode where they switched. She was better at portraying Buffy in Faith's body than SMG was in portraying Faith in Buffy's. Eliza nailed SMG mannerisms. SMG just ventured into a caricature.
But on the whole, SMG is probably better than Eliza and can actually be a pretty good.
by Anonymous | reply 189 | March 16, 2015 2:21 PM
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Eliza was also good on her appearances on Angel. I thought she did a great job when she has the breakdown and begs Angel to kill her.
by Anonymous | reply 190 | March 16, 2015 2:32 PM
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R189, I would say SMG is more consistent and more compelling when it's called for but I agree about that episode in Angel. I hated her and then felt really bad for her and her transition was very convincing. But that's the problem with Eliza--she can only play Faith and nothing else.
by Anonymous | reply 191 | March 16, 2015 2:43 PM
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I forgot Eliza was in Bring it On.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 193 | March 16, 2015 11:48 PM
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No mention of the absolute worst characters?
Dawn owns the title, but I nominate the bland hunk Riley for runner-up. He should have been playing second-string on a daytime soap.
The other commandos were also way hotter than he was.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 194 | January 15, 2017 11:39 PM
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Kennedy from s7 is not beloved anywhere.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 195 | January 15, 2017 11:45 PM
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The Anointed One from the first season is pretty terrible. They could've found a scary child actor for the part.
Thank heavens Spike arrived at the outset of the second season to hoist his cage into the daylight.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 196 | January 15, 2017 11:47 PM
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The ONLY Buffy is the cult film starring Kristy Swanson and Luke Perry. The SMG claptrap is but a pale imitation...
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 197 | January 15, 2017 11:49 PM
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Gays, please direct your attention to Lorne.
He might be my favorite part of the whole Buffyverse.
His final scene in the Angel series finale was stupendous.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 198 | January 15, 2017 11:53 PM
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Lots of guest stars in minor roles that ended up with much bigger careers.
Kal Penn wore tragically unfortunate hair in one of the worst episodes of the series, Beer Bad.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 199 | January 16, 2017 12:08 AM
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Amy Adams, mentioned upthread, was Tara's unsympathetic sister.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 200 | January 16, 2017 12:09 AM
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Vampire Willow should've been invited back.
Only two appearances, but they were splendid.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 201 | January 16, 2017 12:14 AM
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Buffy's tits got smaller every season.
by Anonymous | reply 202 | January 16, 2017 12:23 AM
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My favorite episode was the one where Anya granted Cordelia's wish that Buffy had never come to town. That gave us our first look at Vamp Willow. At the end, the Master ends up snapping Buffy's neck.
by Anonymous | reply 203 | January 16, 2017 1:37 AM
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[R197] you're drunk. the movie is crap.
by Anonymous | reply 204 | January 16, 2017 4:53 PM
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^^No. The movie is the true spirit of Buffy. She was meant to be nothing more than a bubble-headed, light-hearted character from a fun movie. The TV series took the character down a different road and turned the premise into something dark. It was the same with Teen Wolf, where they took a light concept (the 1985 Michael J . Fox movie) and darkened it for a new generation. Kristy is the only Buffy that matters.
by Anonymous | reply 205 | January 16, 2017 5:45 PM
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The movie is forgotten garbage, sorry, R205.
The only Buffy anybody cares about is the SMG version.
by Anonymous | reply 206 | January 16, 2017 5:53 PM
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^^Nope. If not for the cult movie, the SMG version wouldn't even exist. They CW'd the movie and fucked it up.
by Anonymous | reply 207 | January 16, 2017 6:48 PM
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Are you high? The show was the original concept and was the writer reclaiming his story after the people in charge of the movie fucked it up
by Anonymous | reply 208 | January 16, 2017 9:58 PM
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I think the movie fan is just trolling, although I do agree it suffer the last few years by losing its humor. It took itself way too seriously in the later years. SMG also seemed to be going through the motions more towards the end.
by Anonymous | reply 209 | January 16, 2017 10:07 PM
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SMG is NO Kristy Swanson!
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 210 | January 16, 2017 10:16 PM
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David Arquette was cute in the movie
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 211 | January 16, 2017 10:19 PM
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I was in high school when Buffy was on and I absolutely loved it. Never missed an episode. I agree with some of the others that the earlier seasons were better but I still enjoyed it even in the later seasons. One of my favorite episodes was the musical one. I forget the name of the episode. But I just thought that was a brilliant episode. I still have the CD from it. My favorite character was Spike. He never failed to make me laugh with his sardonic sense of humor. I loved Buffy & Angel together right from the start. Just a great show all around and if I see it in repeats I'll still sit and watch it. I own some of the seasons on DVD as well.
by Anonymous | reply 212 | January 16, 2017 10:25 PM
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The movie fan has to be trolling.
The movie was utter crap, and even Joss Whedon hated it. Whedon was a relative nobody at the time (I think he was just a staff writer on Roseanne), and thus had zero creative control over the movie. He wanted it to be darker, and the Hollywood execs messed with it and turned it into a silly camp fest.
The series was his chance to do it his way, and is absolutely superior to the movie, unless you are just being a contrarian.
That being said, the last season is so absolutely shit-tastic that by itself it almost overshadows how great seasons 2, 3, and 5 were. All that wasted time with the potentials instead of focusing on the characters we were actually invested in, and a finally that had Spike and the "amulet from nowhere" saving the day vomit.
I am bumping the thread because I got into a conversation with someone about Hannigan being a cunt in another thread, and I didn't want to derail that thread and turn it into a Buffy thread. So I bumped this one. So...more Buffy/Angel gossip!
by Anonymous | reply 213 | May 13, 2018 7:21 PM
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Grrr. Sorry for the typos. That should read:
All that wasted time with the potentials instead of focusing on the characters we were actually invested in, and a finale that had Spike and the "amulet from nowhere" saving the day. Vomit.
by Anonymous | reply 214 | May 13, 2018 7:26 PM
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More Buffy discussion at the link.
I remember someone on the IMDb boards mentioning that it's interesting how much discussion this show still provokes all these years later. That was in the last two days of the IMDb boards being around, by the way, and you can bet I was bitching about Dawn until the last possible second.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 215 | May 13, 2018 7:31 PM
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Three worst regulars: easy. Jenny Calendar. Riley. Kennedy (but really all the "potentials"--even Felicia Day, who I enjoy in other things). Miss Calendar is soooo annoying (and the actress who plays her is a fundie Christian nutjob, by the way) that it completely destroys the weight of her character being killed off. Same with Riley leaving in season 5. I was all "Bye, Felicia!" when that happened.
Dawn gets a bad rap unfairly, I think. The whole point of Dawn in her first season is that you are supposed to hate her/find her annoying, because that is pretty much a reflection of how Buffy sees her. I like Trachtenberg (sp?) in other things and think she did just fine in the role. And by the last season (though it was terrible), you have seen her mature. She really grows on you.
Give Dawn a chance! ;)
by Anonymous | reply 216 | May 13, 2018 7:43 PM
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[quote]Miss Calendar is soooo annoying
I remember being surprised when she was killed off when it first aired, but when I rewatched the first couple of seasons a few years ago, I was ready for her departure. She was kind of smug and unlikable.
by Anonymous | reply 217 | May 13, 2018 8:02 PM
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I watched some episodes but I never could see what the rabid attraction was. This show, about a 90 pound blonde, green eyed teenage girl (Sarah Michelle Gellar in a dye job and tinted contacts) who wears frosted pink lipstick and is "The Slayer" of vampires, was taken SO seriously it was laughable. The fans of this thing are as deranged as any fanatic is. They seemed to think it was on a par with Shakespeare, and I'm not kidding. As I recall, the movie it was based on was a forgettable comedy, and it WAS a comedy, just a silly comedy. How could it not be, with a title like "Buffy The Vampire Slayer?" But the tv show was supposed to be television at its highest caliber and considered some kind of art form. And it was a show about a bunch of teenage twits called "The Scooby Gang!" What lunacy.
by Anonymous | reply 218 | May 13, 2018 8:16 PM
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r218 Honestly, you sound way more unhinged than any fan of [italic]anything[/italic] I've ever met. I consider myself a rabid fan of this and no one ever compared it to Shakespeare. You're taking it way too seriously yourself. It's just a fun cult TV show with whip-smart dialogue (for that time) and one which taught me it's okay to be goofy and gay and not part of the cool kids' gang at the school (like Willow).
Have you ever given any thought to channelling all that bile towards something more positive and constructive than a TV show you've never seen in full and its fans?
by Anonymous | reply 219 | May 13, 2018 9:18 PM
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Thank you for your input, R218. That was a valuable addition to the thread.
by Anonymous | reply 220 | May 13, 2018 9:19 PM
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Take it from me, R219, I have NEVER taken that show "seriously." And you must live a very lonely, sheltered life if you consider my astute observations "way more unhinged than any fan of anything I've ever met." And you were "taught" by a dumb show about vampires and werewolves and witches? That's really kind of sad. And by the way, here's some examples of the "whip smart dialogue" that you're swooning over:
"Say you love me." "I love you." Say you want me." "I always want you."
"Say you don't love me."
"I think you should be kissing me now."
"Sometimes when I'm sitting in class -- you know, I'm not thinking about class, 'cause that would never happen -- I think about kissing you, and it's like everything stops. It's like, it's like freeze frame. Willow kissage."
"So, I'm wondering, do the other cookie animals feel sorta ripped? Like, is the hippo going,'Hey, man, where are my pants? I have my hippo dignity!'And you know the monkey's just,'I mock you with my monkey pants!"
"Oz...don't you love me? " "All my life I've never loved anything else."
That's what you consider "whip smart dialogue?" I think there's something wrong with you, and being a rabid BTVS fan is definitely part of it.
by Anonymous | reply 221 | May 13, 2018 10:47 PM
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R221. Hon. Coming into a thread about a show you hate and almost never watched just to declare how much you hate it, is the very definition of "taking it seriously."
I despise soap operas and find it odd that soap threads fill up so easily on DL. But you know what? I stay the hell out of those threads. Problem solved.
See how that works?
Seek help.
by Anonymous | reply 222 | May 14, 2018 11:14 AM
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R91 i wasn't a huge Andrew fan but i thought he showed some remorse in Storyteller.
R197 I like the movie too (the principal was my fave character) but the tv show is superior.
R216 Always hated Dawn and while she wasn't as annoying in season 7 they ruined it by having her kick Buffy out of her own house.
by Anonymous | reply 223 | May 14, 2018 4:56 PM
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I guess I am in the minority of fans then, R223. By that final season Buffy was so angsty and brooding and always lecturing and giving speeches...I actually enjoyed seeing her get kicked out of the house.
;)
by Anonymous | reply 224 | May 14, 2018 5:59 PM
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R222, sweetie, I simply commented on a thread. By no stretch of the imagination does that constitute taking something "seriously." It's obvious you take BTVS seriously, very very seriously. Maybe you should talk to someone about that. It might help. Obsessing over something as trivial as a tv show is very unhealthy.
by Anonymous | reply 225 | May 14, 2018 9:11 PM
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God, I love the block feature.
Thank you, goddess Muriel!
by Anonymous | reply 226 | May 14, 2018 9:50 PM
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[Quote] . It was the same with Teen Wolf, where they took a light concept (the 1985 Michael J . Fox movie) and darkened it for a new generation.
Which worked out well considering the show went on for 6 seasons (even though it was terrible).
[Quote] I guess I am in the minority of fans then, [R223]. By that final season Buffy was so angsty and brooding and always lecturing and giving speeches...I actually enjoyed seeing her get kicked out of the house.
Not necessarily. I'm sure there are others that would agree with you.
by Anonymous | reply 227 | May 15, 2018 5:48 PM
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One thing I always admired about the show is that the writers seemed to be overtly aware of all the Buffy speech-making. They riff on it in a very effective, metafictional way in both "The Zeppo" (the Xander focused episode in season 3) and "Storyteller" (the Andrew focused episode and one of the only good eps in Season 7).
I find it interesting that someone who claims to hate the show and "doesn't take it seriously" took the time not only to read and comment in the thread, but also to cut and paste a bunch of quotes from different episodes. That isn't obsessive or psycho at all.
FYI, troll: yes, of course there was occasionally lame dialogue. But there was also a lot of great dialogue and tight storytelling as well. I dare you to watch "The Body" (the ep where Buffy finds her mom dead and the real time, surreal atmosphere it weaves around everyone's grief), or "Normal Again," where It seems Buffy could really just be a mental patient imagining it all, or "Once More, with Feeling" (the musical episode), or "Hush," where most of the episode is done entirely without dialogue, etc. and tell me the whole series sucked wholesale. Those eps and many more were fucking brilliant.
Sure there was cheesy dialogue and occasional romancy stuff that got in the way of the more fun scifi/fantqsy aspect of the show. But even Shakespeare had his dull, cheesy moments, hon. No creative work is entirely perfect. And since you admit to rarely having watched the show, it is clear you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
So go play in another thread.
Or a busy interestion.
Thanks!
by Anonymous | reply 228 | May 15, 2018 6:22 PM
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[Quote] One thing I always admired about the show is that the writers seemed to be overtly aware of all the Buffy speech-making. They riff on it in a very effective, metafictional way in both "The Zeppo" (the Xander focused episode in season 3)
I love the melodramatic scene with Buffy & Angel in that episode.
by Anonymous | reply 229 | May 15, 2018 6:30 PM
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"Sure there was cheesy dialogue and occasional romancy stuff that got in the way of the more fun scifi/fantqsy aspect of the show. But even Shakespeare had his dull, cheesy moments, hon. No creative work is entirely perfect. And since you admit to rarely having watched the show, it is clear you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about."
I watched quite a few episodes to see what the fuss was about. I came away underwhelmed, to say the least. And honey lamb, your mentioning Shakespeare in the same breath as BTVS proves my point, that the fans of this show are truly insane. When it comes to Shakespeare you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. All you know about are BTVS reruns.
Now go play with your BTVS action figurines.
Or a loaded pistol.
Thanks, sweetie!
by Anonymous | reply 230 | May 15, 2018 9:23 PM
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[Quote] Now go play with your BTVS action figurines. Or a loaded pistol. Thanks, sweetie!
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 231 | May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
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So, the Buffy/Faith bodyswap episode... who thinks Faith-in-Buffy's-body was buffin' her muffin?
by Anonymous | reply 232 | May 24, 2018 5:34 AM
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"One of the best shows on television? "
Absolutely.
#feminism
by Anonymous | reply 233 | May 24, 2018 5:50 AM
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As a student of deconstructionism while studying lit crit at universiy, I always have fun deconstructing the feminist angle of Buffy.
She is almost always depicted as being heavily dependent on men: Giles to guide and train her. Angel and Riley for love. Spike to make her "feel" after she is yanked out of a heaven-like dimensipn and forced to live on Earth again. Xander is depicted as the "anchor" in many episodes (he is the "heart" when Buffy combines her personality with her friends to defeat Adam in season 4, and Xander actually saves the world from evil Willow in season 6--not Buffy). And finally and most importantly, in the finale, it is Spike (a male) and the "amulet from nowhere" that actually saves the world from alll the ubervamps--while all the female Slayers literally run away from the danger.
So...is it really a feminist show?
by Anonymous | reply 234 | May 24, 2018 3:22 PM
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R232 I'm sure there are plenty of fanfics about it lol
by Anonymous | reply 235 | May 24, 2018 3:24 PM
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Which brand of feminism, r234? First, second, third, or fourth wave, or some combination thereof? Are you judging it based on a specific theory or criteria?
by Anonymous | reply 236 | May 24, 2018 3:24 PM
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Pretty extensive interview with Marti Noxon about what holds up on Buffy today, what Xander represented, if Tara really had to die, if she was fucking Whedon...
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 237 | July 4, 2018 2:43 PM
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[quote]Eliza is much better at portraying Buffy in Faith's body than SMG was as Faith in Buffy's.
"Stop inching! You were inching!"
I thought Anya's arc was the strongest thing about the final season. "Selfless" was one of the strongest episodes, and you really got the sense how much Anya hated herself. Her death didn't just seem random because they needed to kill somebody, it happened because she felt like she needed to atone for all the horrible things she did as a demon. She even says as much to Andrew, that she was ashamed of herself for running away from the fight with the Mayor. That moment was up there with her fruit punch speech as her best moment.
I'm glad Marti Noxon at least is able to admit that killing Tara was bullshit. Willow was just so unlikable at that point--and Hannigan has revealed herself to be SUCH a bitch--I always regretted they didn't manage to have Willow sacrifice herself to resurrect Tara.
I'm glad people are starting to reassess Whedon's take on feminism. I still love the show, and I wouldn't say his ideas bother me, exactly, but I don't think they're the end-all/be-all.
by Anonymous | reply 238 | July 4, 2018 3:31 PM
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R238 Selfless was one of my favourite episodes from season 7.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 239 | July 4, 2018 6:04 PM
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Her struggles with her humanity got to me in a way Spike and even Angel's never quite did.
Her tiny voice when she tells D'Hoffryn "I want to take it back" just guts me. That and her begging Xander to stop trying to save her because she's not sure there's actually a her to save.
Darla at similar points had the same effect on me. When she was first resurrected as a human, she has this almost sad moment when she realizes she can't remember her human name that always stuck with me.
by Anonymous | reply 240 | July 4, 2018 6:11 PM
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It was a highlight in a really MEH season [R239]
by Anonymous | reply 241 | July 4, 2018 7:26 PM
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R237 I like how Marti just straight up admits that she didn't fuck Joss lol
by Anonymous | reply 242 | July 5, 2018 5:53 PM
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r238 I LOVED Anya and her arc but similarly to how you mentioned Hannigan being a bitch (which she is), my memory of the character will forever be stained by just how awful Caulfield was to her fans on Twitter. I'm glad her career went nowhere almost as much as I'm glad Trachtenberg is a bloated mess now.
Though I have to say... now and then I watch YouTube reactions to Buffy episodes by younger Millennials who are discovering the show for the first time and I find myself completely at peace with Dawn's character. Wisdom? Patience? Indifference? I wonder what could explain that shift. I guess I finally realized this was the show we got and I'm just happy with what it was instead of pining for what it could have been.
by Anonymous | reply 243 | July 7, 2018 1:52 AM
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I didn’t watch this when it first ran, because I didn’t see how it was possible that it didn’t suck.
Also isn’t it some Jewish girl killing vampires with a crucifix? So depressingly Hollywood.
by Anonymous | reply 244 | July 7, 2018 2:15 AM
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I recall the first episode got me hooked. There was one character that I thought would be a primary character in the series. Then they killed him in the first episode. (Hmm, seems like the writer of Game of Thrones might have been a Buffy fan.)
by Anonymous | reply 246 | July 7, 2018 2:39 AM
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I'm rewatching for the first time in years. I watched the original run as a teenager. It holds up pretty well, SFX and dated references aside. As a fan of the vampire genre, it's definitely superior to True Blood, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
I'm up to mid-season 4 now. I don't hate this season as much as I remember, but Giles and Xander took such a backseat this season to boring Riley and the whole Initiative plot that went nowhere. I've watched Seasons 5 and 7 a grand total of once in their entirety, so I'm curious to see those again. Seasons 2-3 are definitely the best.
by Anonymous | reply 247 | July 7, 2018 3:59 AM
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What is up with Riley's hair?
by Anonymous | reply 248 | July 7, 2018 6:13 AM
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r244 It obviously didn't suck since it's still generating conversation decades later. We all just have different tastes, that's all.
She was slaying the vampires with a wooden stake, not a crucifix. And the crosses pretty much disappeared from sight as the seasons went on. This was decidedly [italic]not[/italic] a Christian show or anything like that, so I don't understand what you're getting at with the Jewish thing, which is pretty bizarre in itself, actually. If this show were made today, I'm pretty sure they'd just keep the wooden stakes and eliminate the crosses and holy water, so it would be more inclusive. There'd be nothing wrong with that, of course, as the vampire thing reaches back to Mesopotamia.
r248 It was just a bad parting. His hair got better as the season progressed.
by Anonymous | reply 249 | July 7, 2018 10:22 AM
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[Quote] I'm glad her career went nowhere almost as much as I'm glad Trachtenberg is a bloated mess now.
I still hate Dawn with fire of a 1000 suns but was Michelle an asshole in real life too or.....?
[Quote] I'm rewatching for the first time in years. I watched the original run as a teenager. It holds up pretty well, SFX and dated references aside. As a fan of the vampire genre, it's definitely superior to True Blood, Vampire Diaries, and Twilight.
I don't hate those shows or the Twilight franchise but Buffy is definitely superior to all of them. I can't believe they're doing another TVD spinoff.
by Anonymous | reply 250 | July 7, 2018 4:06 PM
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R247, I thonk you are going to be pleasantly surprised.
I thought 2-3 were the best when it was originally on (as I wasn't long out of high school myself at that point), but on rewatching and enjoying it as an adult, I think 5 is by far the best of the series. Even 6 is a lot better than I remember it being, if you can get past the gross Buffy/Spike sex stuff.
I think we are being too hard on Dawn. Yes, she was annoying. She was the Wesley Crusher of Buffy. But that she was annoyong was sort of the point. I think the writers wanted the viewers to see her the way Buffy did: as an annoyong pest. That isn't Trachtenberg's fault. Also, her story fits well into the season 5 arc, which I think is the best of the series. Glory fucking rocked as the Big Bad, and it was refreshing to see Buffy fight for a sister instead of pining and obsessing over a man (Angel, Riley, etc.). I felt it was more feminist.
by Anonymous | reply 251 | July 7, 2018 7:33 PM
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I rewatched the first three seasons a couple of years ago when it was still on Netflix. Season 1 almost seemed like a different show and then seemed to shift gears into what it would become in the finale. Early Angel really was the generic, pretty boy, brooding hunk. None of the quirks or comedic timing he would later develop on his own show.
Along with most of the first season having a different feel, that includes Cordelia. She really was just a straight out bitch [with good delivery] with no connection to the gang. She often had about two lines an episode. Finally in one of the last episodes, it is focused on her, and hints she is not happy being surrounded by her normal empty headed friends who just suck up to her. The next episode is the finale, where she is pretty much written as she would be for the next few years. I wonder if Whedon was watching the first few episodes, and thought, we really need to use her more and bring her into the gang. I had not remembered how long Zander and Willow were playing with fire with their flirting while dating Corelia and Oz. One opinion that did remain the same from when I originally watched it was Alison was not a great actress the first few years on the show.
It was fun seeing Spike and how bad ass and pure evil he was when he first stayed o the show. They really did water him down a bit. He and Druisilia were such an upgrade as the big bad from the master and the boy.
Joyce and Miss Calendar annoyed me more the second time around.
While this post seems a little negative, I did enjoy viewing some of the episodes again. It could be a fun show and genuinely creepy when it was running on all cylinders. I did not get much beyond season 3, but did watch Hush. That really was one of the best episodes.
by Anonymous | reply 252 | July 7, 2018 8:33 PM
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Like all the parents in kid/teen shows in the ‘90s, Joyce was written like a MORON.
by Anonymous | reply 253 | July 7, 2018 9:13 PM
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R243, how was Emma Caulfield a bitch to her fans on Twitter?
by Anonymous | reply 254 | July 7, 2018 9:17 PM
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I though Zander was a sexy goober and probably had a great upper body. Too bad they never showed it. I understand he’s had a lot of life troubles since. Active alcoholism since 2010 or so.
by Anonymous | reply 255 | July 7, 2018 9:17 PM
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I liked the way Joyce was written. I thought she was completely believable, with comic exaggeration. I was probably closer in age to Joyce than Buffy, at the time.
by Anonymous | reply 256 | July 7, 2018 9:20 PM
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[quote]I though Zander was a sexy goober and probably had a great upper body. Too bad they never showed it
While not considered a great episode - Zander does get into a speedo when investigating the swim team being turned into fish creatures. He was still in good shape at the time.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 257 | July 7, 2018 9:39 PM
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Thanks, R257! He was hot!
by Anonymous | reply 258 | July 7, 2018 10:35 PM
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This thread is making me want to go back and rewatch the show, which I watched in its original run and loved but have somehow never rewatched.
I had such a crush on Oz and I hated Willow for most of the show. I was shocked to find I liked Alyson on HIMYM.
by Anonymous | reply 259 | July 8, 2018 3:13 AM
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Is it on any streaming services? Haven’t watched it since the original run as a teen, but fell in love with it.
by Anonymous | reply 260 | July 8, 2018 3:35 AM
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I think it is on Hulu (along with Angel). It had been on Netflix, but got dropped a couple of years ago (unless it is back again).
by Anonymous | reply 261 | July 8, 2018 4:04 AM
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R252 the Season 1 episodes are very monster-of-the-week, horror tropes. It almost reminds me of Goosebumps. The early episodes definitely had hints of the tone and humor, but the plot premises were sophomoric. And by mid-season 2, they started to drop those episodes in favor of the season long arcs.
I don't think Joss Whedon magically became a much better writer and showrunner overnight, so I wonder if Season 1 had a lot of network and studio influence to make it the kind of genre show people were familiar with in the mid-90s- like X-Files, Twilight Zone, etc.- and after they had developed a viewing audience, they were able to shift to gears and have it become the serialized mythology show it was probably originally envisioned as.
by Anonymous | reply 262 | July 8, 2018 6:54 AM
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So this is still on?? People still watch it??
by Anonymous | reply 263 | July 8, 2018 6:57 AM
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[Quote] I think we are being too hard on Dawn.
She was still annoying in season 6. I didn't mind her in season 7 but then they ruined it by having her kick Buffy out of "her" house.
[Quote] I though Zander was a sexy goober and probably had a great upper body. Too bad they never showed it.
I remember thinking Xander was kind of hot when he got possessed by a hyena in season 1. Also he was kind of a badass in season 3 when he was a vamp. They should have brought him back and have him interact with Angel.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 264 | July 8, 2018 4:32 PM
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The Season 1 finale "Prophecy Girl" is great though, it is the first great episode of Buffy.
by Anonymous | reply 265 | July 8, 2018 4:51 PM
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I love season 1. I know it's cheesy as hell but it's still fun to go back to the beginning. I don't know why the first season of alot of older shows get shit on. Compared to now, a show is usually great in it's first season and then goes to shit in the second.
by Anonymous | reply 266 | July 8, 2018 4:58 PM
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A throwaway character I loved was the Japanese potential in #7 - who hadn't a fuckin' clue where she was or what she was there for...
by Anonymous | reply 267 | July 8, 2018 5:44 PM
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I really wanted to like season 6 so I did, but rewatching shows you how much it really lacked compared to earlier Buffy. "Once more with feeling" was of course a masterpiece and it had a few worthwhile episodes. The ending was good too. Season 7 is complete bs with no redeeming qualities. Just really, really bad TV. The fact that season 7 happened is killing my nostalgia for earlier seasons, but no doubt when it was good it was good.
by Anonymous | reply 268 | July 8, 2018 6:15 PM
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Yeah I think Seasons 6 and 7 are horrible with the exception of a handful of episodes r268.
Though if it stopped at Season 5 we would have never gotten "Once More With Feeling", so that makes the crappy seasons worth it.
by Anonymous | reply 269 | July 8, 2018 6:19 PM
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Season 7 is very rough no matter what, but as a binge (Netflix or DVD), Season 6 plays a lot better.
by Anonymous | reply 270 | July 9, 2018 12:16 AM
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Season 6 is redeemable and I enjoy it more now than when it first aired: Tabula Rasa, Once More with Feeling, Normal Again, Dark Willow...all enjoyable. You just have to ignore the Buffy/Spike sex stuff, which was gross. I even enjoyed Doublemeat Palace, which I thought was a fun throwback to the show's early "monster of the week" stuff.
But Season 7...yeah not much good there. The Anya and Andrew episodes are good (Selfless and Storyteller), but that's about it. I even think Conversations with Dead People is way overrated...just more of the "long boring speeches" that were standard that season.
Whedon et. all really dropped the ball that year. Do any of them ever open up and admit to how bad it was and why?
by Anonymous | reply 271 | July 9, 2018 4:37 AM
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[Quote] The Anya and Andrew episodes are good (Selfless and Storyteller)
I love the end scene with Buffy trying to get Andrew to cry in Storyteller.
by Anonymous | reply 272 | July 9, 2018 3:46 PM
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I hated the nerds as the main villains back then. But now I think that was good foreshadowing of the creepy male incels we have now.
by Anonymous | reply 273 | July 10, 2018 1:53 PM
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It was still enjoyable, but after the finale where they take down the Mayor, who was the best villain of the series, it never reached those heights again. Losing Angel really hurt the show. Buffy never had a romance again that you could really root for.
Season 4 was the first drop off in quality. Season 5 improved despite the ever annoying Dawn character, and Glory was the second best villain of the show. They really should have ended it at Season 5, with Buffy making the ultimate sacrifice. Season 6 was a slog and way too dark, but the finale with Xander talking Dark Willow down was very, very good. I found Season 7 hard to get into and lost interest in the show. I thought the series finale was just OK. A lot of critics gazzed over it, but I thought at that point the show was not the same anymore. I've binged watched the show and you can really see the decline.
by Anonymous | reply 274 | July 10, 2018 2:11 PM
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[Quote] It was still enjoyable, but after the finale where they take down the Mayor, who was the best villain of the series, it never reached those heights again.
The Mayor was my favourite villain. I loved his relationship with Faith in season 3.
by Anonymous | reply 275 | July 10, 2018 6:35 PM
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The best arc of Buffy is the Angelus arc in Season 2 to me.
Innocence, Passion, Becoming Part 1/2. Season 3 is better overall better (man Season 2 still had a lot of clunker episodes) but it was good, that was peak Buffy.
by Anonymous | reply 276 | July 10, 2018 6:57 PM
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I actually liked Season 6 when it originally aired. The nerd gang premise was kind of lame, but I liked a lot of the episodes- Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa, Gone, Older and Far Away, Normal Again and the Dark Willow arch.
Also, I liked Buffy and Spike together. It was a nice break from the whiny Scooby Gang, and Spike was infinitely more interesting for her than Riley.
by Anonymous | reply 278 | July 11, 2018 3:59 AM
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I liked Willow & Tara together but i don't think i could have forgiven Willow after Tabula Rasa.
by Anonymous | reply 279 | July 11, 2018 9:33 PM
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[quote]Glory fucking rocked as the Big Bad
YES! The more time passes, the more I like her. People often complain that she was just an overpowered bimbo, but she was incredibly refreshing to me and I was actually scared of her as a kid. And those scenes of her kicking Buffy's ass without breaking a sweat were amazing. As was the whole strategy of how they took her out in the end.
r254 I think I already discussed it in this thread or the 20th-anniversary thread, I can't remember. She basically humiliated and sicced her followers on any Buffy fan who just joined Twitter and called her Anya because they just wanted to say hi. And it was relentless, happening every day, like she was enjoying it. I don't know if she's calmed down since then as I unfollowed her because of that behaviour.
by Anonymous | reply 281 | July 16, 2018 11:47 AM
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I totally agree R281..
I liked Mayor Wilkins, and the actor who played him did a brilliant job of combining quirky/funny with evil (contrasting the evil with his protective-of-Faith father figure persona), but...the payoff with the ascension just fell flat for me. The horrid CGI snake, the cheesy "let's give everyone at Sunnydale High a chance to fight" scene, etc. just left me cold.
The Glory arc just worked better. Her undoing was classic, and Giles snuffing the life out of mortal Ben because he knew Buffy wouldn't be able to do it was absolutely chilling. And Buffy still has to sacrifice herself because the damage is done.
Season 3 is good, but I stand by what I said before: 5 is far superior.
by Anonymous | reply 282 | July 16, 2018 6:46 PM
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Charisma tweeted about the pregnancy drama.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 283 | May 5, 2019 5:14 PM
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I just love how drama like this still randomly comes out decades after the fact and blows up. It's the most delicious gossip and a chance to clear things up for good.
by Anonymous | reply 284 | May 5, 2019 5:26 PM
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I'll add the reddit thread since there's additional info
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 285 | May 5, 2019 5:39 PM
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R288 a jackass and a Republican Trumploving cunt. Pass.
by Anonymous | reply 289 | June 4, 2019 9:09 PM
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R288 [italic] how much [/italic] of a jackass??
by Anonymous | reply 290 | June 5, 2019 3:54 AM
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R290 Well he did cheat on his pregnant model wife. And he's infamous for being an asshole on set, especially if you're one of the "little people". But he's also a lucky fuck, he hasn't been off of TV since Buffy started.
by Anonymous | reply 291 | June 5, 2019 5:01 AM
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[Quote] Well he did cheat on his pregnant model wife.
I bet he still does.
[Quote] And he's infamous for being an asshole on set, especially if you're one of the "little people". But he's also a lucky fuck, he hasn't been off of TV since Buffy started.
I wonder if he was that way on the set of Buffy?? I can't picture SMG putting up with that.
by Anonymous | reply 292 | June 5, 2019 6:57 AM
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Angel cast and creators reunite for 20th anniversary of beloved vampire drama series
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 293 | June 20, 2019 4:21 PM
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Who's the guy on the far right of this photo?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 294 | June 20, 2019 4:22 PM
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Ah, it's David Greenwalt, nevermind!
by Anonymous | reply 295 | June 20, 2019 4:24 PM
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I've always thought that Alexis Denisof was very handsome and sexy.
by Anonymous | reply 296 | June 20, 2019 8:51 PM
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r296 Me too, but he's aged the most of the bunch, I think. And everyone's hands - apart from Amy's - look even older than their faces in the photo at r294.
by Anonymous | reply 297 | June 20, 2019 8:55 PM
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Everyone looks good. Of course no Joss lol. I kind of wish Eliza and Christian had been part of the shoot too.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 298 | June 21, 2019 4:55 AM
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In memoriam: The cast and creators of Angel remember Glenn Quinn and Andy Hallett
One gone thanks to heroin and the other due to a heart attack caused by a dental infection, I think. So tragic.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 299 | June 22, 2019 2:22 AM
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[Quote] Speaking of picking up, Acker, 42, enjoyed the series’ experience so much, she has already declared she’d be ready for a revival, which would be season 6. “Every show should be this fun,” she says. “We were so spoiled.”
That would be a little hard to pull off. And i thought the Angel set wasn't supposedly that great to work on??
by Anonymous | reply 300 | June 22, 2019 8:57 AM
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What is happening with Nicolas Brendan's off screen problems?
by Anonymous | reply 301 | June 22, 2019 1:49 PM
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R293 no Mercedes? No party.
by Anonymous | reply 302 | June 22, 2019 2:09 PM
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R302 when did Harmony show up? Was it before season 5?
by Anonymous | reply 303 | June 23, 2019 4:29 AM
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Harmony got her tits out in a horror movie.
by Anonymous | reply 304 | June 23, 2019 5:07 AM
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Does Amy Acker ever age??
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 305 | October 5, 2019 1:11 PM
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[Quote] Sarah Michelle Gellar has opened up about whether she'd be interested in participating in the reboot of Buffy the Vampire Slayer — and revealed how her own children respond to her old movies. It was announced last year that a diverse Buffy reboot is in the works with showrunner Monica Owusu-Breen helming the project. It has been met with some pushback from fans. As it turns out, Gellar is all for the show being reimagined, but it would have to be without her because, as she told BuzzFeed News' AM to DM on Wednesday morning, "I'm not an adolescent anymore." She said, "I'm all for them rebooting it. I think it's an important story. I think there's a way to modernize it and tell a different story now. I think the way we ended lends itself to it, but at the same time, I'm so proud of the show that we made." Gellar — who starred as Buffy Summers on Joss Whedon's hit show about vampires, demons, and other creatures from 1997 to 2003 — said the show worked so well at the time because it was "the story for the horrors of adolescence manifested as actual horrors, as actual demons." She told BuzzFeed News: "What I think is even more impressive is that it's still relevant today — that people find it and watch it for the first time, and it still means exactly the same if not more now that there's more lessons to take, there's more empowerment to take from it." She added, "So does it really need to be done again?"
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 307 | October 17, 2019 11:46 AM
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[quote]She said, "I'm all for them rebooting it. I think it's an important story. I think there's a way to modernize it and tell a different story now.
[quote]She added, "So does it really need to be done again?"
So which is it?
by Anonymous | reply 308 | October 17, 2019 11:51 AM
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I haven't watched Buffy in ages. Does it hold up? Which streaming service has it?
by Anonymous | reply 313 | July 4, 2020 8:28 AM
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R313 I think it holds up for the most part. I know it's on Stan (an Australian streaming site). I haven't bothered watching the HD versions because they look terrible.
by Anonymous | reply 314 | July 4, 2020 2:12 PM
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Seasons 1-3 are still great, just as they were when they aired. Season 4 has a handful of standout episodes, but mostly sucks. Season 5 is better than 4, but nowhere near the level of the first 3 seasons. Seasons 6 & 7 were so bad as to be nearly unwatchable; I can’t imagine that they have improved with age.
by Anonymous | reply 315 | July 7, 2020 7:51 AM
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[Quote] Seasons 6 & 7 were so bad as to be nearly unwatchable; I can’t imagine that they have improved with age.
I wouldn't say unwatchable, but the writing wasn't as sharp. Joss was busy with Firefly.
by Anonymous | reply 316 | July 7, 2020 1:22 PM
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Season 6 has more highlights than flaws. Season 7 has more flaws than highlights. Both are better than most TV.
by Anonymous | reply 317 | July 7, 2020 4:15 PM
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