Maybe a link to explain what you''re talking about OP?
- They were filmed calmly crossing the border into Mexico, OP. That''s the last anyone knows of them.
- The drug cartel in Mexico got ''em
- Among many things of course, one aspect I found odd was that around 3/4 of the way into this show one of the detectives said they found internet searches for something like "disappearing in Mexico" on the guy''s computer hard drive.\
What? It sounds pretty suspect since it was not much more discussed. If it is true in the first place, that seems like quite a huge piece of information.
- The thing I don''t get is them leaving their supposedly beloved dogs behind with no food or water. Animal control was coming by and feeding them. Food left out as if they left in a hurry. Maybe he was involved in some shady business dealings and was in fear so they disappeared. One theory from a blog, is that he alone lured the family to Mexico, and his wife stated that she never go because of the danger, and murdered his family. I''d like to know what kind of business he was discussing on the phone the night their SUV was last seen pulling out of the driveway and why when found it was packed with brand new childrens toys.
- I just watched this episode yesterday and it is pretty intriguing, although I find it a joke that they are so sure it is them in that grainy video image. I mean, two adults and two children isn''t exactly a unique combination.
- What about the waiter in Baja who swore he saw the little boy with the birthmark but the map the couple had did not have the McStays fingerprints on it? I thought that was weird because the guy was sure it was them.
- I think the computer search was something like whether kids needed passports to enter Mexico.\
The waiter''s account was wrong. Eyewitnesses are far less reliable than fingerprints.\
Considering the staggering number of murders in Mexico, I don''t think there''s much doubt that they''re all dead. Whether they were drug mules is a different story.
- What show OP?
- A rerun of Disappeared R9.
- I had my doubts before about the surveillance video of the McStay Family approaching the turnstile to cross over into Tijuana, Mexico. But now I have developed my own photo of the family in silhouette, and am more convinced than ever that this is indeed the McStays. The figure of Summer with her long black hair is the most recognizable.
The investigation into the February 4th disappearance of the McStay family is morphing in the direction of a flight into Mexico, and probably deliberately. This only muddies the waters all the more. My theory is that with their fleeing into Mexico by choice, they must have been trying to avoid someone. They left behind a beautiful brand new home and a very happy existence. Or so it would appear on the surface?
I am going to back up here and spell out a handful of new facts that cast this case in a different light. The best reporting is coming from the Union-Tribune in San Diego and specifically from staff writer Leslie Berestein. Leslie seems to have the inside scoop with the McStay family and with the San Diego Sheriff's Department, who is oh so selective in what clues they'll disclose to the public.
A primary new clue is that the McStay's were researching passport requirements for traveling to Mexico with children. These inquiries were found on their computer and were made on Jan. 27 and Jan. 28; they visited the site About.com. However, it doesn't look as if they followed through with obtaining the proper legal documents.
Joseph was the only one who had a valid passport. Summer's had expired and the youngest son's birth certificate, required for reentry into the United States, was left with a grandmother. Therefore, I believe that a sudden unexpected event or development (a third party intervention) hastened their plans to depart Fallbrook on February 4th. (Union-Tribune-FBI joins search for McStays by Leslie Berestein-Friday, April 2, 2010)
McStay Family - Significant Fact
A new fact that I find significant is that a neighbor's security camera shows a vehicle backing out of the McStay's driveway at exactly 7:47 P.M. on Feb. 4th. Why were the family of four leaving so late on their trip? Some event, perhaps a phone call, must have triggered an impetus to move up the clock of departure?
Why leave so late for Mexico? This makes no sense. And remember, it would be four more days until their car was towed from a strip mall parking lot in San Ysidro. Where were they during this time and what were they doing for those four days?
The last phone call made was by Joseph McStay, on his cell phone at 8:37 PM to his business partner. The call was for only one minute and was made one hour after their departure for an unknown destination. After this time the cell phones go dead. Also, bank activity completely drops off the earth.
Could they have been living on cash alone? They would have to. A sizeable withdrawal of cold cash is required to make this fit. Yet the police haven't mentioned any cash withdrawal such as this? This is the key to a fundamental hypothesis of mine that I will postulate for you shortly.
What I find most odd is why hasn't the business partner come out with a statement to the press? This partner of Joseph in his home fountain business has not even given his name. Is he hiding something? What did he discuss with Joseph in this last one minute phone conversation? If he has nothing to hide, why not just come out with a statement to the press? Perhaps he has a piece of information that could unravel this unsolved mystery?
Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch was a guest on Jane-Velez Mitchell on Wednesday, March 31st. When Tim looked over the McStay house, he observed that it appeared that many clothes were missing. This implies that the family packed these belongings with the idea of leaving on a planned trip. Maybe a trip of some length, I might add. There were only high heels for Summer, and where were Joseph's shoes and shirts? Packed in luggage, I would think.
And what about the notion that they staged their disappearance? What's for sure, is that they left in haste! Food w
- For anyone interested the "Disappeared" episode profiling this case re-airs on the ID Channel Sunday afternoon (2pm in Los Angeles.)
- Please continue R11. I''m interested. I think in the 4 days unaccounted for they were obviously hiding out somewhere, hence all the brand new toys to placate the kids. I don''t understand why they didn''t withdraw all their cash from the banks before leaving though. I think police said something about a substantial amount of money left behind, which doesn''t lead me to believe they were necessarily having money problems. I too am interesed in exactly what this business partner has to say and why the police are keeping mum or not pressuring him more.
- They dead.
Olivia Newton John
- The continuation of R11's post can be found on newsblaze.com.
Food was left out. And Summer forgot her prescription sunglasses! The dogs were left without food and water (most puzzling). Trays of paint and rollers were abandoned, as if some event altered Summer's flow of work, her painting of the kitchen, a dramatic gear shift. A statement of Summer's friend for ten years, Jesi Silveria, reinforces my theory of a rapid change in plans.
"I was one of the last people speaking to her and for three days straight it was all about moving in and setting in. There was no mention about hesitancy or challenges she was having. If she had any stress or strain or worry you could have heard it in her voice. It just doesn't make sense to anyone who personally knows them."
A life altering development occurred on February 4th. This event was reinforced by previous happenings, however. This is cause and effect here. Think of when you shoot a pool ball with a cue stick. The ball hits other balls and they move to a new location on the pool table. In turn, this affects the player's strategy on his next shot. The 'McStay Plan' was a work in progress. It shifted with the sifting sands of fate.
Testimony from Susan Blake, Joseph's mother, adds to my belief that something BIG went down on February 4th. Susan Blake felt as if something was out of place when she spoke to her son on that day. "Joe told me he wasn't feeling good that day. His equilibrium wasn't right and I felt something was wrong." I think that Joe knew it was time to get away. Not doing so would be a more negative decision for his family.
I'm going to lay out my theory, so don't scoff at me for idle speculation. I'm sure that the FBI is doing that very thing even as I type these words. But here goes nothing. A favorite movie of mine, 1998's A Simple Plan, directed by Sam Raimi, is my model for what happened to the McStays. In the film Hank Mitchell, his brother Jacob, and a friend Lou stumble upon a downed airplane. They find a dead man inside the crash and $4.4 million dollars in cash, stashed in cargo bags.
The brothers and the friend devise a 'simple plan' to lay low and to keep the money as a sort of retirement account for their old age. This is where the irony comes in, this is anything but a 'simple plan' as a rapid sequence of events put a tire iron in the spokes of a well-oiled scheme. In this parallel the McStays must have discovered some money that they weren't intended to have. I think it was a sum of more than a million dollars. This cash may have been hidden in one of the fountains that Joseph purchased from Mexico. Narco-traffickers may have been attempting to launder vast amounts of drug money by way of these fountain craftsmen on the other side of the border. The McStays were not supposed to be aware of this scheme.
As such their men on the American side would retrieve this money and smuggle it away to another safehouse. But Joseph accidentally discovered this money when he was working on one of these fountains. The amount was so great, that he decided to keep it after discussing the situation with Summer. In the film Bill Paxton does something similar with Bridgett Fonda. The money pushes their button. This is where a 'simple plan' comes into play.
And so this would explain why the bank accounts suddenly went dead. The McStays would operate strictly on a cash-only-basis, going forward. They figured that could hide out in Mexico undetected, maybe in some simple village up in the mountains, away from civilization. And their cash would stretch out as far as the eye can see.
A still of the McStays approaching the turnstile to Mexico. I'm convinced that this is the missing California family of four. Did they deliberately flee into Mexico? Photo by John Kays
Fitting in with my theory, the McStays had to hide out in the states from the 4th to the 8th. They didn't want to cross over into Mexico too rapidly, lest the traffickers might surprise them at the crossing. Why leave the white Isuzu Trooper in San Ysidro?
- Why leave the white Isuzu Trooper in San Ysidro? Because the Bad Men knew of the vehicle from the news, so they had to get rid of it. And what about the last call to the business partner?
This is why I think he knew. He may have tipped off the McStays that 'they' were looking for them. This would also explain why he won't give his name or provide the media with a statement of some kind. Also, I believe the police know of his involvement and are providing him with a makeshift 'witness protection program.' This would also explain why it took so long to report the disappearance to the authorities. Enough time was allowed for the McStays to hide away in the remotest regions of Mexico.
And then you might wonder why the McStays didn't just return the money to these traffickers? The reason why is this wasn't even an option! Even if they did return the money, they would still be killed to silence them. This is how these ruthless criminals operate, in say, Ciudad Juarez. The McStays had no choice but to flee with the money in tow. They had but one choice-a permanent departure from their once beautiful life.
McStay Family - My Theory
My theory of what might have happened to the McStay Family is the only one that fits all the known facts we that we have at our disposal. Today Michael McStay is distributing fliers down on the border. He intends to go to Mexico very soon, and has already gotten his passport. And now the FBI is taking a stake in this case.
This is further support for my theory. I don't believe they would get involved if they didn't believe their case had taken on wider parameters. As such maybe it's more international in scope, involving U.S. citizens and narco-traffickers, who operate without impunity on both sides of the borders.
You may think I'm spinning cotton candy here, but how can one juxtapose these disjointed facts into a cogent theorem that fits for their sudden disappearance? My theory works. And don't you look upon me as if I'm lingering on the Dark Side (I don't live in a Gingerbread House)!
I do believe that they are still alive! I'm an optimist. Two possible sightings have already been reported. The case may break tomorrow or it may remain unsolved. Words of Lt. Dennis Brugos best characterizes the McStay Family case: "I've never seen anything like this in over 35 years of experience in the business."
- Interesting R16 and actually plausible to think the stuff he was getting from Mexico could have cash in it or maybe drugs he had attempted to sell. It would also fit with the business partner not being grilled more.
Your theory is all well and good except for one glaring problem.%0D\
If you have stolen millions from Mexican drug dealers.....%0D\
you don''t hide out in Mexico.
- I thought of that too [R19]. Could they easily work their way down to South America?%0D\
- Irish Travelers on the run.
- R18- Sometimes the best place to hide is on the front doorstep. T.S.Elliot said that \
"[their] conspicuousness made them invisible" .
- R16, your theory does all make sense, except as someone just said, Mexican drug dealers (or ANY drug dealers!) = why the FUCK would you go into Mexico? Where COULD you go?%0D\
If that is what happened, I doubt they are alive. And if they are, it''s on borrowed time. Poor kids.
- Although this is an anonymous board, I need to point out that the 3 part theory started on R16 is not from a poster but a copy and paste from an article on line.
- And you would stand out more in Mexico.
I do think they voluntarily entered Mexico but I''m puzzled by why they can''t be found, assuming they are still there and alive.\
McStay on his own would stand out as pure gringo down there; moreover, one of the children has a very distinct birthmark on his forehead that is easy to see and highly unusual.\
My theory? I''m going with the ''Simple Plan'' theory. Somehow they were engaged in a shady business and were serving as the go-between involving a large sum of cash. They took the cash and fled, developed fake identities which they used to escape Mexico. Then took off to a place where they wouldn''t feel any heat (I''m thinking Brazil or Argentina).
- I have only heard negative things about the business partner. Clients have posted warnings online that the guy is a crook taking payments on jobs that were never completed.
- Sounds like a good plot point R26. The suspect in a crime is not some far fetched book/movie plot, but like Keaton said, "If you think his brother did it, his brother did it."\
Course we only have Keyser Soze word that Keaton said that.\
- If the waiter described the child with the birthmark correctly, isn''t it possible the children were in the hands of a kidnapper since the fingerprints on the map did not belong to either parent? This might explain a lot of things.
- How could they stay hidden travelling with such young children? And if they really feared for their lives, why take the kids instead of leaving them safely with friends/neighbours/relatives?\
I didn''t see the program, but here''s an article summarizing the case. The wife sounds like a flake, though I''m sure that''s immaterial.
- This case fascinates me along with those three missing women and the cabin murders in CA years ago.
- R30. Wasn''t that a guy who worked at the hotel? A mother w/her daughter and daughter''s friend?\
If the parents were on the run, wouldn''t they hand off the children and run on their own? I think R28 is on to something
- R31, that was a more recent murder and, yes, it was a hotel worker. I am talking about the Keddie murders.
- They are being harbored at Ciudad Greene.
Adaleen, polishing the Lladro
- Interesting fact - one of his business partners dan apparently began emailing joey in Nov begging him for money. Joey repeatedly denied this guy. Fast forward 4 months later and the mcstays have dissapeared. The police state accounts have been untouched yet published paypal account statements show withdrawls of $2000, then $2000, then $4000 in the 2 weeks after they were reported missing. Where'd the money go? Into account of his broke partner Dan k. And then Dan k. Turned around and sold the whole company illegally, and paid off some guy he owed 100,000$ too!!!!!!! Wondering if he had someone attempt to kidnap the family and try to ransom them but instead the family fled or something worse happened.
- Suppose Summer while looking on Craigs List came across the toys for sale, they take kids to look at toys and something happens from there,i.e. take the kids dispose of parents, explaining the dogs etc, they did expect to return home, also finger prints on map, could have been the kid and not the parent. They were missing 4 days before the car parked at the boarder but whose to say the McStays drove it there,
- There was a piece on E! hosted by Lisa Ling's sister (yes, the one who was imprisoned in N. Korea). Nothing much new but there were people who felt that McStay had a lot of money stashed away and they're living a different life in Mexico.
- Why, exactly, are they being sought?
Did they commit any crimes?
If people want to leave, they can. What right to people have to push this manhunt for a family that voluntarily left their residence?
- There's no evidence that they left voluntarily, R37. Foul play has been suspected by other family members as well as law enforcement.
- They did leave voluntarily. They aren't required to give their whereabouts to family members. Where is the evidence of foul play?
This pisses me off and that everyone is now tracked all day, every day. This is bullshit and part of the erosion of a freedom of movement.
If they were involved in shady dealings, prove it. Otherwise, why are we wasting resources.
- [quote] They did leave voluntarily.
They wouldn't have left their dogs behind to starve.
- R39 = tinhat
- How so?
Because I don't think a family should be hounded like criminals? People used to be able to move about the country freely, but you Nancy Grace freaks and armchair sleuths think everything is a conspiracy demanding investigation.
- Could well have just decided to disappear :) but I think Summer was shady with all those name changes, denial of her hispanic background, home schooling, home birth etc etc...anyone notice a pattern? I think she was trying to stay under the radar, perhaps she herself was already on the run from something in her past, maybe it caught up with her?
I don't think they came across cartel millions and decided to do a runner with the money it's a plausible theory but...they did have options, they could have gone into witness protection. Also why run to Mexico if your on the run from a Mexican cartel? Leaving your car at the border would surely give the cartel the biggest indication ever that you had fled across to Mexico. It doesn't make sense unless they were incredibly stupid and I don't think they were. Mexico is generally not considered the safest place in the world, if your on the run from a cartel. I mean half the Police are on their payroll and people are so afraid of them plus Mr would stand out like a sore thumb, cartel would have caught up with them so easily.
I still say Summer was shady, she is the link in this case
- Well if any proof emerges that the McStay family is alive and just in hiding, I wonder if the family members in the states will stop putting their search on blast, after all the McStays could end up dead because of the well intended.
- Also, would the FBI even admit that someone is in the witness protection program? Why would they?
I just read that the husband is related to someone who went to jail for fraud.
- People seem stuck on this "Mexican drug cartel" idea, when maybe the threat was closer to home. It's not as if violent cutthroat crime rackets only exist beyond America's borders.
And if the McStays are indeed under high level witness protection, this might explain the restaurant fingerprints turning up an official "mismatch" since such things have to go through a gatekeeper of sorts who takes orders from above.
This "Mexican drug cartel" theory is invoked any place you go for information, as if someone has made sure of it. It could be misdirection.
- mystery bump
- I think they just drove off the bridge into the river in the rain. It was an accident. They wouldn't have left the dogs without food.
- I agree Simba. Summer was a strange one. Why all the name changes? I'd forgotten about the homeschooling and home births. It's like she was trying desperately to stay off the radar.
- Another family missing, similar circumstances...
They left their home and all their belongings behind 3 weeks ago and had a successful business as well.
- If they were in the witness protection program the immediate family would know. They wouldn't know where they were but would be told enough to keep their mouths closed and stop talking to the news.
Either the business partner killed them or he was a drug money launderer and got intercepted on his attempted escape. They're probably mush on the bottom of an acid barrel.
For what it is worth, all federal agencies have denied that they are in witness protection.
- I saw that on the news this morning, R50 and immediately thought of the McStays. Very strange.
- [quote]I think they just drove off the bridge into the river in the rain. It was an accident.
So do I
- I believe this is a white and black case. I believe two things could of happen: 1. That the mother planned everything to murder his husband and flea from the US. They bought a house??? Duh isn't that suspicious it was bought to alter the crime scene and the mysterious customer late at night?? It was a planned murder by her. Since he was so I'll he had short temper maybe he abused her. So she research were she could flea after she had already killed him in the bridge. The spotting in the border is not the father it is her old friend whom she made everyone believe it was his customer. She bought a lot of new toys to make the boys forget about their witnessing of murder.
Second thing could have happened: the father was drug dealing making the website a cover for his dirty money and maybe the drug cartel wanted to kill him and his family making them all to flea to Mexico and be untracked
- They could of flea'd.
- Did Siri translate that for you, r55?
- My question is, how much did they pay for their house (down payment), and what happens when someone abandons their house ? It obviously reverts back to the bank, who has the loan. But I'm curious if they put down the minimum say, or 20 %. Wouldn't one , or the other, be a clue as to if they knew they might have to leave fast, or not ? And how much cash did they really have in their accts. ? If it was just a few thousand, I could see why they'd forfeit it. But if they had a few hundred thousand, hard to believe they'd walk away from that.
- They just played a doc of this on E! tonight.
so bizarre. I have my suspicions about Summer.
Name changes, ect..
Could she have stole money from a mafia member, and they found out where she lived?
- Where the hell are the grammar trolls? DO SOMETHING!!!!
- Anything new on the other missing family, the Medskers?
- R55 and R59 are illiterates.
- If ever there were a family with the wrong last name, it would have to be the McStays.
- These cases drive my curiousity crazy. Really, what happened. It's usually less dramatic than we imagine (think of Olivia Newton John's former boyfriend), but you always wonder.....where are they ?
- I feel so sorry for their poor family even if the McStays did leave voluntarily surely there was some way of getting in touch with at least one family member
- I have many opinions on this case... The inquiries for passport on their computer was on jan. 27th and 28th so there's no time to recieve it cause they vanished on Feb. 4th. How can they have brought a BIG bunch of money and clothes? On the Mexico border camera we see them without bags... No passport, no bags with 2 kids hmmmmm sounds wrong for me for sure. He may have been involved in drug deal yes cause he had to travel to Mexico for his fountain job and never brought his wife and kids and his job might have been a cover as well but i still wonder where they can go without nothing??? If Joseph had all the cash in his coat he had took the risk to be seen by the Mexican authorities??? i don't think so. Summer was afraid to go in Mexico and leaving her dogs like that doesn't make sense to me, she liked her dogs like her kids... Anyway very strange in all ways.
- I also forgot to say that i feel very sorry for the pain and the sorrow their family must have to endure. I just hope they're still alive and doing good. This case tourments me so much now since i have viewed it on ID Channel (Disappeared). If they left volontary i wish they could at least contact someone just to say "Contact our family to let them know we're okay". They must suffer like hell :(
- This case and the millionaire CEO's girlfriend found hanging out a window are fascinating.
- Like the Medsker family who disappeared from Michigan without any traces and leaving everything behind but at least they have given news after 3 weeks and said "They said they're fine and that they don't want to have any more communication.
No location has been talked about and nothing since than... weird.
- Joined a cult, cut off all communications with family because that's what they do when they join a cult. Poor kids have to follow where their parents lead.
- Saw the Ling story a long time ago.
The wife had a shady past and had went by numerous different aliases.
- I have another theory... Kidnappers for the kids. Got rid of the parents which would explain the dogs left behind, the house and the truck. Took the clothes for the parents to look like them on the camera of the border, bought toys while they stayed in a hotel for the kids. Maybe it would explain the sighseeing in Mexico with the mismatched fingerprints on the map but saw the kids. Which would explain that the activities stopped with their bank account, debit/credit cards, no passports for the kids because the intention of the kidnappers is to not come back in the States, the medications of Joey left in the truck. Maybe the drivers were not Joey and Summer. Well it can be or not, this is so weird...
- The cops have cell phone information that has led them to the conclusion that they are probably dead.
- THey were planning to flee someone dangerous but that person got to them first.
- My guess is murder.
The parents were going to be murdered, but information was needed out of them first. The kids would be need to be occupied during the interrogation. The murderers buy toys for the kids, knowing the kids would be stuck in a motel room during the interrogation and murder of their parents.
The murderers arrive at the house. At gunpoint, the family is instructed to get into their own car with two armed thugs.
They are probably followed by a second vehicle to the murder local.
Immediately after the murder, the family car is driven to another location and dropped off.
A clean, professional hit.
- Mystery of the family that vanished off the face of the earth three years ago this week: Plea for clues as author claims wife murdered husband and fled with children
No firm leads have been found in the case of the McStay family, who disappeared nearly three years ago and left their idyllic California home in what appeared to be the middle of a normal morning. But writer Rick Baker - who has tried to piece together what happened since they vanished on February 4, 2010, believes that mother Summer McStay murdered her husband Joseph and ran away with their two children Gianni, then 4-years-old, and Joseph Jr, then 3-years-old.
The family's story has stumped investigators ever since they seemingly vanished from their San Diego home. Police were baffled from the beginning, ever since they found a carton of eggs on the counter, two bowls of popcorn on the futon and two dogs in the backyard were all they left behind, clues that this was a family who left in a hurry. Inside their two-story house detectives found no sign of foul play, just evidence of everyday life.
Mr Baker, however, has spent much of the last three years following the case and evidence that he found in hundreds of text messages and emails reportedly leading him to believe that the seemingly-loving wife was living somewhat of a double life. He said that the emails depict her as 'someone who was very unhappy not just with her own personal life but with Joseph as well and Joseph's extended family. Just not a very nice person.' 'Maybe we can find Summer, and if she did kill Joseph or had him killed, I want to see her fry.'
Much of the investigation lost its steam when, four days after they disappeared, their white Isuzu trooper was found parked at a San Diego shopping mall not far from the U.S./Mexico border and 60 miles from their home.Later, investigators said a forensic probe of the family's computer revealed that someone had conducted searches on January 28 regarding passport requirements for travel into Mexico.Grainy surveillance footage from the evening their car was found shows two adults and two children walking across the border.
Mr Baker, who is promoting a book about the case called No Goodbyes: The Mysterious Disappearance of the McStay Family, believes that they never left the country.
'I don't think they ever crossed the border, I don't think law enforcement thinks that they crossed the border,' Mr Baker said.
Police initially disagreed, as detective Troy DuGal said that there is a '75 per cent chance it's them'.
Joseph McStay's relatives have played an active role in keeping the spotlight on the case even as time rolls by, maintaining a website in their honor. Though they also refute the police theory that lands the family in Mexico - Joseph's younger brother Michael said: 'It's just not like them to walk out on a business, a family, a home'- that does not mean that they support Mr Baker at all. 'Baker has no proof to back up his claims and is sensationalizing to sell books,' Michael McStay said to local California station News10. Detective DuGal said there was a '75% chance' it was them.
But Joseph's younger brother Michael said: 'It's just not like them to walk out on a business, a family, a home.'
- Interesting. Didn't the wife have somewhat of a shady past with name changes?
- 'I will turn on you': Revealed, the shocking emails sent by wife to husband before they vanished without a trace with their two children three years ago
McStay family disappeared in 2010 from San Diego home - with dogs in yard and popcorn on futon - and no trace of them has been found since. Emails emerge between Summer and husband Joseph in which wife says 'I will not forgive you and I mean it'
Amateur sleuth who wrote book on mystery claims marriage was 'doomed from the start' and even claims Summer may have murdered her husband. But brother of Joseph says author is 'just trying to make money'. Police admit they are still no closer to finding out what happened to couple and two children despite a reported sighting at the Mexican border
The mother of the McStay family who vanished without trace in 2010 sent abusive emails to her husband in which she vowed: ‘I will turn on you’, it emerged today. Summer McStay told Joseph to ‘mind your own ****** business’ and if he didn’t she said: ‘I will not forgive you and I mean it.’It's claimed that Summer also repeatedly threatened to leave Joseph in the years before they disappeared because she didn’t want to look after his son from a previous marriage.In response to one of her rants Joseph was so driven to despair so he replied: ‘I must say... this is one of the nastiest e-mails I ever gotten.... So Foul, I can’t believe it came from you’.
The claims are in an explosive self-published book by an amateur sleuth who has conducted dozens of interviews over three years with friends and members of the McStay family.
In ‘No Goodbyes: The Mysterious Disappearance of the McStay Family’, former radio show host Rick Baker argues that Joseph and Summer’s marriage was ‘doomed from the start’ and that she may have murdered her husband.
Mr Baker, 59, used to live in Fallbrook, California, the picture postcard suburban town near San Diego where the McStays lived until their disappearance on February 4 2010.
Summer, 46, Joseph, 43, and their two young children, Gianni, 7, and Joseph Mateo, who would be 6 this month, are last thought to have been seen going into Mexico on February 8.When police entered the house they found a carton of eggs on the counter, two bowls of popcorn on the futon and two dogs in the backyard, suggesting the family may have left in a hurry.Their locked and abandoned Isuzu Trooper was found near the border at San Ysidro. It is not known if their disappearance was intended or under coercion and Lt. Glenn Giannantonio of the San Diego Sheriff's Department's homicide division has admitted: ‘At this point we are no closer to finding them than on the day they disappeared’.
Baker became ‘obsessed’ with the case and has turned up hundreds of text messages and emails he claims have led him to believe that the seemingly-loving wife was living a double life.
He told MailOnline that the emails depict Summer as ‘sick monster’ who plotted against her husband’s son from a previous marriage because she ‘hated him’.
More...'I had to pray for people to die': Woman who escaped 'hate cult' Westboro Baptist Church finds peace with new life full of freedom
Police reveal New York mother missing in Turkey took trips out of the country after chatting with man on the internet as they release footage showing her just hours before her disappearance
Mother-of-13 indicted in murder-for-hire scheme after she 'offered friend nicknamed Mafia Mike $10,000 to kill husband in sham hunting accident'
She sent the most shocking email to Joseph in September 2007 - two months before they got married - when she found out that he was looking for her father with whom she had never had a relationship as she was raised by her mother alone. The date of the emails leaves many years for the couple to make up, but the level of vitriol they contain is shocking.
Rest of story at link
- There were no thugs with them in the car.
- [quote]CEO's girlfriend found hanging out a window are fascinating.
- It's possible that maybe she disposed of him and and took off with another man into Mexico.
- Here ya go R80.
- I can't get the new thread about this anymore. It's McGone.
- Yeah. It appeared in the list, and when you click, it says "Thread does not exist".
Was it censored? Weird.
- Hmm r84. Mine doesn't say that it doesn't exist, just won't load. But it is gone though? I looked up McStay Family Datalounge on yahoo to get here. There used to be a few threads that had them in it, now just this one pops up. That is really weird considering they are about to be McFound in Mexico and won't be able to fake their demises anymore. I was talking about the suspicious brother on the last one. Maybe he saw and had it removed. I better shut up now.
- Rick Baker is a right wing nutcase. Don't support him or his trashy book.
- r86 I didn't even know who you meant so I glanced at his blog and he seems to be supporting the far out theory and milking it. He is another one that has the pictures of the boy wearing a hat and covering up his most fucking distinguishing mark...He is probably in cahoots with the brother.
- Di now the FBI officially believes they are in Mexico. How the fuck can you do a 180? No way. They're dead. They took no money, no cell phones. Nothing. Is there any dirt on this couple? Any real evidence that would give some indication as to why they fled?
r75 = Nancy Grace viewer
- No, the brother has said he thinks Baker is just out to make a buck.
- [quote]' 'Maybe we can find Summer, and if she did kill Joseph or had him killed, I want to see her fry.'
How does an author say this??!
- Baker's a Right winger?
- But from what I have heard (and posted in the other thread that is now gone) Interpol has had them as 'voluntary missing' for awhile now. I think they are alive and that maybe the feds have just now figured out whatever illegal shit they were into and now want to find them. There have been at least 3 people that were profiled on "Disappeared" that were later found. I think they will be too. The biggest dirt that I have heard/read form San Diego is that Travis was involved in money laundering or drug dealing. HIs partner said he always had a lot of cash and he made a lot of money. 100k would be just a few months pay to him and not a big deal to leave.
- Oh r89 I just read more of that Baker's blog and it was ridiculous. He only responds to female comments and totally flirts with the girls on there. I saw that he doesn't trust the brother but I don't either. The brother is trying to get paid too. I think he knows that the family left and are still alive. They both seem hinky to me but that Baker is quite the ladies man..sheesh.
- Who the fuck is this Baker guy to them? Why does he have all these documents of theirs? He's saying on his blog that he refuses to release the docs to authorities and one of the reasons he cited was revenge..wtf? Can he do that? I guess I need to read his backstory more and see why he even is involved. I had always gotten info on them from his brother's blog. I didn't know about his. He seems like a dick.
- Is this the case that shows a family in an almost zombie state packing up their van and leaving their house?
- r95 No, I don't think so. They did pack up and leave and their car was found later but it was a Trooper, not a van and I don't think they packed anything, which is why it was weird. I think I know who you mean though.
- Who are these fucking weirdos (red or otherwise) that insert themselves into this case and then sigh wearily and give up on it? There are a few posting on Baker's page:
"I also left the case. Following it was hurting my marriage and my heart. I only came back to this blog to read this post because a friend told me about it. I knew Joseph and Summer. When they disappeared I couldn't sleep at night wondering what happened. I offered to help. do anything I could. At first it felt good. But then it got bad. The people that the family members let run roughshod over the case was very frustrating to me. I almost got divroced. My husband could not take it anymore. Finally, once I realized the Mike McStay was no longer involved in his own websites and to save my marriage, I had to just walk away. I felt unclean, like you. This is the only comment I will make and after it is posted I will not return. I am finished with the McStay case, and while I don't wish I had never met Joseph, I do wish I had never met Mike or his followers."
Reel it in there, Mrs. Kravitz. Glad you could make this shit all about you..
- Who was the zombie family packing up their car and leaving caught on the home security cam? I think Disappeared showed it. Anyone remember? It was so creepy.
- Zombie family: Bobby Sherilyn Jamison
That is a frigging scarey case!! Disappeared showed it.
- R99 - now THAT is a very, very strange case.
- What about the case where the young son dies then shortly after the girlfriend dies? The father was rich, I believe. It didn't happen all that long ago, I always got the feeling the woman killed the child, then the father killed the woman. I could have some details wrong but I'm sure someone remembers?
Also, the case that happened in WV or something, with the parents and the little girl disappearing? They had that last photograph that was taken with the little girl and some thought maybe it wasn't the parents who took it. The one where the truck was left, and it had money in it? They had a house in the boonies or something. Thanks.
- I forgot to say, who do people keep saying the family would know? The family is NOT suppose to know, that's how people are kept safe. There are exceptions but people keep saying that as if they allow you to give your family a heads up that you're being relocated. For their safety, someone could've informed, informally or otherwise, to get them to become less vocal but they certainly wouldn't have known from the beginning. No one, not your mother, sister, whoever, is ever suppose to know.
- Sorry. I didn't recognize the name of the case, I see now someone has posted about it already. It wasn't WV, it was Oklahoma. lol
- I don't know why the Jamison case hasn't gotten more publicity. It's just so bizarre. How could three people drive up a mountain and vanish without a trace?
- Crazy stuff like this happens often. Here are some interesting cases of late.
- [quote]What about the case where the young son dies then shortly after the girlfriend dies? The father was rich, I believe. It didn't happen all that long ago, I always got the feeling the woman killed the child, then the father killed the woman. I could have some details wrong but I'm sure someone remembers?
That was in San Diego and he was the CEO of some drug company. She was found naked, bound, gagged and hanging by a rope out of a second floor window. Definitely foul play.
- Here's some interesting theories about the Jamison family.
- Mexican drug gangs have brought back the old Chinese slow slicing. There are graphic photo taken in the early twentieth century of men and women being skinned alive while tied to a stake.
WARNING: highly graphic and disturbing
- Holy shit is that his skin hanging R108? What did that poor man do?
- R109, it is a woman lower in the comments you will see a man. There's a French and Mexican historical data blog that shows all of the slow slicing known as "death by a thousand cuts". If you research you can see better coverage with men and women getting their legs sawn off just below the knee while still alive. Mexican drug cartels are now using this method to punish snitches.
- Oh and there's an Asian form of torture where they pull rocks under your feet every day until you hang to death in a bamboo cage kept in the public square. In the mean time, flies attack the buttocks as the prisoner shits themselves for all to see.
- Somehow I doubt that poor woman committed treason. I have a feeling that punishment was definitely abused.
- I just read up on that Oklahoma family's disappearance.
They were heavily involved in using and dealing meth, and they disappeared right before a major law enforcement raid that decimated a huge meth ring.
Apparently the FBI closed the missing persons investigation on them pretty quickly. I'd say they disappeared into the witness protection program.
- R101 and R106, still obsessed with Rebecca Zahau, you big lez?
- The family of Zahau has all but disappeared from the Dr. Shill circuit since Dina has made claims that Max Shaknai was helped to fall over the bannister. Also, they have that skeevy attorney who seems about as genuine as Linda Baden.
- More on the missing Oklahoma tweakers. The author is barely literate, but it is still an interesting read.
- I'm R106 but I'm not R101. I was answering R101's question R114. Not a lez either. Sorry.
- The McStay case is very interesting.
I think that the husband was involved in some type of illegal activity in Mexico. It would appear that the family disappeared to Mexico or entered into the Witness Protection Program.
- Interesting R116 but if, as the author surmises, they walked away why did they leave that money behind? It makes no sense.
- I think so too r118. And I think the brother knows this on some level. The fact that he offers a 1000 dollar reward for the info on 4 people is laughable. It's like he knows he needs to appear concerned but just does the minimum.
- I'm starting to think the Witness Protection Program for both families. The Jamison's drug associates were busted in a sting op about a week after they disappeared.
- r121 I agree that the Jamison's are most likely part of the Witness Protection Program. As you stated, their drug associates were busted a week after they "disappeared". Also, the fact that there was a 2nd set of tire tracks leading away from the truck when it was found.
Most likely the Jamison's set up a meeting with the FBI/US Marshals on the mountain. The cover was that they were looking to purchase property. I believe that they brought the money and the dog with them in the hopes that they could bring both along. The FBI/US Marshals told them they would not be allowed to bring either the money or the dog. Everything would need to be left behind. The daughter grew upset when she found out that she would not be allowed to bring her dog hence her unhappy look in the cell phone picture.
- I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be allowed to bring cash into Witness Protection. And why would they leave the dog locked in the car to slowly starve to death? Wouldn't they at least have set him free?
I thought all the tracks had been washed away by days of rain.
- I do think it's very strange that the mother never offered a reward... especially since she was given the 32K plus all of their property. She couldn't even bother with a nominal reward for the return of her granddaughter?
And why doesn't the show mention that the little girl's hair was dyed blonde?
- r107 - I clicked on the link to the Charley Project blog and found a reference to my missing father. I knew he was listed on the site, but I didn't know he was referenced on the blog. I wish I could discuss it here, but it's too personal for me to post on DL.
- Sorry R117, but you pinged on trolldar and yes, you are that big black lez from the projects who is obsessed with Rebecca Zahau, still, to this day.
- No, R126. I'm not that big black lez from the projects, whoever that is. I'm white and living in the city.
I think her story is fascinating the same way any murder mystery. What is wrong with that?
- r127 Zahau got in way over her head. The ex wife was never going to accept her and I imagine that she tried way too hard with that kid, Max. When she accidentally killed him, she felt really bad. She wrote a "poor me" note on the wall and then killed herself. Don't believe that people can easily tie themselves up? I used to be the same way until I worked in a dungeon and one of the doms there showed me how easy it was. It was cute that her grifty sister tried to extort money from the Shaknais though. I admire anyone who hustles, unfortunately, as soon as Max's death was brought up, they backed down.
- bump again, the McStays are about to be McFound.
Why do you say that they are about to be found? Any info?
- Are you saying that Rebecca had dominatrix experience?
Unless she had severe OCD, no despondant person has the energy and discipline to tie so many knots in so many places.
- Doesn't it sound like the FBI is going to state that the family is in Mexico, voluntarily, and that the case is closed?
- Has anyone questioned Olivia Newton John?
- They are going to be found because too many people have made a stink about it lately. The FBI and Interpol always knew where they were and respected that they went missing on their own accord but that dick Baker wrote a book about it and now they will need to be found, they were never lost.
- lol, R134!
- More info, please
- r135 where is your info coming from?
- inside the house
- The FBI could have just continued to ignore it. If they were in the Witness Protection Program, I think they would have put out a quick statement like the other family did. It could have shut everyone up.
- Their bodies were all found by a dirt biker outside of Victorville this week, in two shallow graves. Who did this and why?
- Does anyone else find their surname ironic?
- Daily Mail has photos.
- They probably visited someone were murdered buried and car was moved.
- Maybe they will be able to find out how they died and at least put some.of the speculation as to bed
- Who would want this family dead the entire family robery is not a motive kidnap them take them to a secluded area bury them drive the truck to mexico look like a voulantery disapperance I believe after they did there shopping the were kidnaped I'm thinking mutiple indiv one drove there truck and helped w ith the burial this is a sad day
- There was much discussion a couple of years ago in this post about the business partner. But the husband didn't actually speak to his business partner on that call. The husband only left his partner a voicemail message that was less than a minute long. The partner has only explained that it was about business and has stayed very low key. I have paid very close attention to this case and haven't heard word one about that partner.
I think they were actually car jacked going into town to pick up a rental movie at the 7-11 or something. Fallbrook is so small that they probably all drove in together (after deciding what was on TV wasn't what they wanted to watch). Popcorn is already popped. Quick trip into town for a movie or something. Car jacked at that point. For the car though, not for murder. Except something terrible went wrong. I feel very badly for all concerned.
- What about the inquiry into mexico were they threatned and maybe didn't get away in time this desert is not far from rancho were he had his last metting and far from the border were they trooper was found
- This DL poster from way upthread must be so ashamed of himself. Oh no wait, people like this have no shame.
[quote]They did leave voluntarily. They aren't required to give their whereabouts to family members. Where is the evidence of foul play? This pisses me off and that everyone is now tracked all day, every day. This is bullshit and part of the erosion of a freedom of movement. If they were involved in shady dealings, prove it. Otherwise, why are we wasting resources.
Then someone gave the freeper/faux-bertarian shit about it and he posted:
[quote]How so? Because I don't think a family should be hounded like criminals? People used to be able to move about the country freely, but you Nancy Grace freaks and armchair sleuths think everything is a conspiracy demanding investigation.
Right! The police have a lot of FUCKING GALL to have been investigating this family's unexplained disappearance. This is why freepers and faux-bertarians are stupid and deserve to be mocked.
- If it was a carjacking, how did their bodies end up in Victorville 2 hours to the north while the vehicle was left close to the border?
- If I were a scumbag who was willing to kill a family, including 2 kids, why not send one off to empty their bank accounts, first? It must not have been thought off that far ahead, thought of by smart people, or someone who doesn't need money.
- Shut up, r151. Some people thought they left voluntarily (or didn't know what to think). Quit trying to make this until a political thing. There are people on all sides who have a problem with surveillance/privacy issues.
I'm sorry to hear of what happened to this family. I was fascinated by the case and honestly didn't know who to think. I still don't. I wonder if they'll be able to figure out what happened.
- His wife was being tracked by the wrong people to mess with. Something is going down on her family that Joe wanted to know about.
I'd like to see how they accumulated $100,000.... Joe appears to live with aloha, giving the shaka sign. I think he wondered what his wife's dad side of the family was made of and curiosity kill this surfers family.
In Hawaii we say let it go! Whatever was going on in her family, I think Joe enjoyed the benefits and greed took over.
I grew up in north county, San Diego. This case made me feel sick to my stomach. And still does.
Aloha nui loa Mcstay Ohana.
- Either there is a lot of bad autocorrect in a bunch or these latest posts .... or ... well, you know.
- R148/150 please take a remedial course in spelling, grammar and sentence structure. Your posts are practically unintelligible.
- The author of that book is now offering a full refund due to his book being full of shit.
- [quote]Shut up, [R151].
[quote]Some people thought they left voluntarily (or didn't know what to think).
[quote]Quit trying to make this until a political thing.
[quote]There are people on all sides who have a problem with surveillance/privacy issues.
R154, you're a fucking moron. First, there are obviously not people on ALL sides who have a problem with surveillance/privacy issues. Some people don't have any problem with them at all.
The police investigating the mysterious disappearance of an entire family is not even remotely a surveillance or privacy issue. It's the fauxbertarians who tried to make a perfectly normal investigation into a political side-show. Now they can eat some humble pie and shut the fuck up.
So chow down and shut the fuck up, R154. \t
- [quote] His wife was being tracked by the wrong people to mess with
And you know this how, Sherlock?
- Joe's kind of rough looking for a guy on his early 40s.
- Notice there weren't any decapitations in Mexico before we invaded Iraq and afghanistan? Americans were so horrified by decapitations committed by Muslim radicals that they believed the decapitators were subhumans who must be defeated at all costs. Committing atrocities attributed to the enemy is an age-old device.
"In the 1990s, the drug cartels in Mexico did not cut off the heads of the victims. Instead, they used different "codes of murder" established between the mafias. A bullet through the back of the head, for example, signified that the victim was a traitor; a bullet through the temple, however, signified that the victim was member of a rival drug gang. Now, decapitation is a tactic often used by the criminal organizations in Mexico—primarily by Los Zetas and its two main rivals, the Gulf and Sinaloa cartels. The first public decapitation was carried out by La Familia Michoacana in September 2006, when several gunmen opened the doors of a bar in the Mexican state of Michoacán and threw five severed heads on the dance floor.[25"
- None of you know what happened.
- Online comments state that the Joe's dad is in jail for writing bad checks, and both men have a rep for shady business dealing and pyramid schemes. They have been sued numerous times as well.
- A fast search reveals that skeletal remains of 4 people have been identified as belonging to the McStay family.
- r168, link?
- They probably did cross the border.
- I wanna know what happened to the Jamisons.
- BREAKING NEWS: The skeletal remains of the McStay family have been found buried in the desert about 100 miles from their home.
- that websleuths site is damn near impossible to get into. I haven't got the time to keep trying. Can you recap?
- I do not wish to malign the McStays but I think either of the parents were caught up in dealings with a very dangerous group of people. Or a relative or someone they have known a long time. Something went wrong and they were kidnapped and hastily executed. They were taken a short distance from a main highway and buried in a very shallow grave.
- Perhaps they were drugged by someone visiting. There was no forced entry. No one heard any commotion. Drugging them, tying them up, executing them at an outside location would be easy. However, what is the motive? No money was taken, at least not the amount that would get someone killed. This was a payback murder. Maybe they weren't drugged, I mean if you want to teach someone a lesson, you make them suffer through it. I'm sure the sick fuck or fucks killed the kids first. But wait, if it was a paid hit, maybe they'd just go in and take care of the job, not really giving a fuck about torturing them. More than one person was involved in this. Maybe a person they knew was visiting. They drugged them and had someone come in and do the rest. Still though, this had to be payback for something.
I still think drugs are the motive.
- How did they have a hundred thousand dollars in the bank yet they couldn't pay their bills? They were druggies. They probably had drugs being shipped into the country via his water fountains which were produced in Mexico. They said the wife didn't want to cross the border due to drug cartels. Most people are not going to get into that. She knew all about drugs.
- Yeah, I'm afraid this has drug execution all over it. They knew something or were involved in something and were punished or silenced, maybe both.
- Online comments reveal that Mexican drug cartels tend to publicly display their victims' bodies as a warning to others. The fact that the McStay's graves were found near a prison in an area known for white trash and meth dealing leads one to believe that the murderer was also White.
Perhaps they got call to immediately meet someone they knew, and weren't able to leave water for their dogs, put away the eggs and banana, or most important, leave the toddlers with a relative first.
- [quote]No money was taken,
You're forgetting the money transferred out of their account into Dan Kavanaugh's account. He changed the company name and sold it.
- R179, An online poster claims he used to buy drugs in the back of the small store Mr. McStay used to run. Both parents have had a long history of financial impropriety as well. Some of McStay's clients have accused him of pocketing deposits without delivering the promised goods. It just shows the business was in serious trouble before the disappearance.
Also they were being evicted from their last apartment for repeated non-payment of rent, despite the fact that both parents had RE licenses. Yet they were able to buy a much more expensive house that had gone into foreclosure, and still have $100,000 in the bank. I'd like to know when all of that money was deposited.
By the way Mike's father was jailed for writing bad checks to cover his gambling debts. That may or may not have any relevance to this story.
- Still strange that Mrs. McStay claimed to everyone to be at least 10 years younger, repeatedly changed her name and denied that she was part Hispanic, had her 2 toddlers at home so that there wouldn't be any birth records, went ballistic to the point of crazy when her husband tried to find out more information about her father, and showed many other signs of paranoia or mental instability.
- I'm convinced that McStay knew the killer(s). The killer took them at gunpoint to a place where we do not know. Once killed, he dumped them. He only plannned to kill both parents because he only has TWO burials dug up. The kids just happened to be there and saw him, so he had no choice but to kill them too. The killer was out for revenge. I tend to think it was the business parnter or his cronies. They left in a hurry. Didn't even leave water for the dogs. Didn't put food away. Nothing. He probably tried calling his partner to try and see if he could talk the killer(s) out of it, but to no avail.
- ...Also, the evidence shows that both Joseph and Summer hand's were tied. So they must of suffered for awhile before they were killed. The car didn't show up at border 4 days later....
- Where is the video on this? Wasn't this covered years ago in one of the TV news magazine shows?
- they are all probably dead
- R186, they ARE dead! There bodies were found in the desert a couple days ago. That is why everyone wants a refresher course on their problemed lives.
- There= their= they're = whatever!
- R186 = real genius
I doubt they went to meet anyone. More like two people entered the home, tied them up at gunpoint and took the whole family away in the vehicle.
My problem is, if whoever took them wanted money (assuming it was drug related), why didn't they come up with a way to get it and THEN off the family? As stated, they had 100K in the bank.
So it does seem like a revenge or silencing type murder. Curiouser and curiouser.
- [quote]More like two people entered the home, tied them up at gunpoint and took the whole family away in the vehicle.
Unfortunately the neighbor's camera didn't see anyone enter at least from the front. I don't know how easily accessible the house was from the back.
- R189, $100,000 isn't really a ton of money anymore.
- 100K is a lot of money if you owe it to the wrong people.
- Thank you, R186, I needed a laugh.
- The neighbor's camera caught the car driving away, but you can't see who's driving apparently. The video was never made public, which is odd.
- [quote]Still strange that Mrs. McStay claimed to everyone to be at least 10 years younger, repeatedly changed her name and denied that she was part Hispanic, had her 2 toddlers at home so that there wouldn't be any birth records, went ballistic to the point of crazy when her husband tried to find out more information about her father, and showed many other signs of paranoia or mental instability.
Where are you getting all this from? Tabloids?
- R186= Rose Nyland
- Don't let this creepy thread die!
- R194 The footage of the car was public---I saw it on the Vanished with Beth Holloway Twitty show. I think the SUV pulled out of the driveway face-first, indicating that it had been backed into the garage.
The footage displayed the body of the car, but the camera angle didn't show the windows, unfortunately. The car seemed to move at a normal speed, turning left and driving away.
Of course, the video could have been an re-enactment.
- "they ARE dead! There bodies were found in the desert a couple days ago. That is why everyone wants a refresher course on their problemed lives."
- Some of the posters here are looking very silly now that the bodies were found:
"They did leave voluntarily. They aren't required to give their whereabouts to family members. Where is the evidence of foul play?
This pisses me off and that everyone is now tracked all day, every day. This is bullshit and part of the erosion of a freedom of movement."
- "How so? Because I don't think a family should be hounded like criminals? People used to be able to move about the country freely, but you Nancy Grace freaks and armchair sleuths think everything is a conspiracy demanding investigation."
Uh, no one ever said it was a "conspiracy"
Looks like you were totally wrong! Lots of people moved about the country freely, but if they just wanted to take a trip they would have told their friends and family that instead of mysteriously vanishing.
- 199, according to Web Sleuths, the video was NEVER released. They know their shit. It must have been a reenactment. All they released was that grainy border footage.
- I don't understand why LE was so conclusive in stating it was the crossing the border. The footage is grainy and you can't tell out more than it's a family of four making a very poor decision. Even if they were able to enhance, the footage is from the back with no real way of definitive identification.
- *the McStays crossing
- Why are our cameras always so shitty? Even in interrogation rooms. Buy some HD shit! It should be mandatory!
- [quote]My problem is, if whoever took them wanted money (assuming it was drug related), why didn't they come up with a way to get it and THEN off the family? As stated, they had 100K in the bank.
There's no telling how much cash or what quantity of drugs they had in the house.
- What does that tell you: 100k in the bank, but unable to pay their bills, being thrown out of their house because they can't pay.
- Joseph's business partner Chase M. was a real piece of work. He's reportedly been ripping people off for years. Taking huge payments for fountains and never delivering. The web designer, Dan, seems very suspect as well. Allegedly posing as a fake employee for the fountain company after the family's disappearance, taking moneys out of the accounts, promising work, taking money and never delivering. Both of them with a huge online trail of deceit. I wonder if they could have been in on it together.
This had NOTHING to do with drug cartels or Mexico. It's not their M.O.
- Maybe he wanted a relationship with her, and she blew him off. He trashes her in that new article.
- Anything new going on with this? The media seems to have dropped it.
- "Anything new going on with this? The media seems to have dropped it."
Have they found the kids' bodies yet?
- The entire family's remains were found. Please try to pay attention before you post.
- They found all the bodies R213 but haven't released any other information. I think they may even have some suspects and are deliberately holding back info.
- R209, Chase was the only one that took a lie detector test. He also repeatedly bugged Mike, the brother, and the police to check out McStay's house when they first were missing. He helped build the water features, and was instrumental in planning a huge deal with Saudi Arabia. He went bankrupt after the family's disappearance.
Mike McStay immediately took his brother's computer, upon entry of the house through a broken window, and refused to relinquish it to the police. Dan C. was the business partner who withdrew money through pay pal and then sold the business.
- I think the HLN shows will be all over it once some juicy new details are released, or when someone is arrested. I did hear that both parents' hands were bound, but I'm not sure how reliable that info is.
It is weird how you could get dragged into something like this even if you are innocent. For example Chase Merritt has done some bad things, but even if he isn't involved in the disappearance, he is pretty much screwed because all of his dirty laundry is now on blast. Maybe he just wanted to understate his taxable income, not kill a family of four.
Like when Gary Condit was apparently just having a run-of-the-mill affair with a semi-attractive young girl, and then she turned up dead. He lost his job, his privacy...everything...
I'm not saying what Condit did was right, I'm just saying he didn't deserve what he got.
- Oh I don't know, R217, Condit was a scumbag whether he killed his mistress or not.
- [quote]Mike McStay immediately took his brother's computer, upon entry of the house through a broken window, and refused to relinquish it to the police.
That's fishy right there. Why would he not want the police to go through it and look for clues? Sounds like he was covering something his brother may have been doing or he was doing.
- Seems like there are several shady people connected to the family. But there's a big difference between being shady when it comes to business and money, and being an ice cold killer of parents and small children. I really wonder if anyone will ever be held accountable here.
- I think the fact that we haven't heard much since they found the remains means they are hot on the trail of some good leads.
You need a body before you can file murder charges, right? There is a likely a lot of evidence on or near the bodies, so hopefully they are knee deep in that stuff.
The good news is that the San Diego PD isn't handling this part of the investigation, since they fucked up the first part so badly. They might be a little worried, too, since their investigative mistakes will be discussed over and over when the truth comes out.
- If 'they' wanted to execute the just execute the family, for revenge or to cover their asses, they would've just offed them in the house.
I'm leaning toward the idea that they needed the husband and/or wife to lead them to either drugs or stashed cash, before they killed them.
The kids would've been included whether the killers were family, friends, business partners or drug dealers because the kids either knew them or could possibly identify them.
I'd like to know where their business was in relation to where either the vehicle or bodies were found.
If the brother took a computer, it obviously wasn't the only one in the house is they found searches. Was it specifically used for their company?
Definitely going to check out websleuths.
- [quote]You need a body before you can file murder charges, right?
They have the bodies. It's been deemed a homicide. They were tied up and buried. The coroner also has the final say.
- R223, they were hundreds if miles apart in two different directions.
- Their vehicle was found near the CA and Mexico border, 4 days after they hastily left their home, and before police were formally notified. It was parked in a common place for those who don't want to buy costly Mexican insurance, and intend to walk across the border.
The bodies were buried in shallow graves hours in the opposite direction, not to far from a major prison, in White trash meth territory.
- Red herring or relevant? Quote from the DM.
"CPS (Child Protective Services) case... stepfather threatened the McStays over their claims he abused Joseph's eldest son. Stepfather has a record in Orange County California, case number 98WF1745. He said he would file a false charge against them and make sure their kids were taken away."
Thanks, if you're talking about the distance between where the car was found as opposed to where the bodies were found, I saw that at the DM link.
Do you know where the their business office was? I had no luck on websleuths, and really don't have the time right now. TIA.
- Why didn't they check the pings of the cell phones?
- R229, The business was home based, likely so that he could write off part of his home and computer as a business expense. Many clients in completely different locales. The father met associates for lunch in favorite local restaurants.
- Thanks again, R231
- "The good news is that the San Diego PD isn't handling this part of the investigation, since they fucked up the first part so badly. They might be a little worried, too, since their investigative mistakes will be discussed over and over when the truth comes out."
You have no idea how hard it is to investigate a case like this. People always want someone to blame.
- [quote]You have no idea how hard it is to investigate a case like this. People always want someone to blame
They didn't investigate. They stopped. Their official conclusion was that the family left the country voluntarily. Case closed.
Don't be stupid. This is one of the biggest fuck ups of all time!
- It's either:
Money, Drugs, Love, Serial Killer, Revenge
It had to be more than on person too.
- What has the mother of McStay's oldest child said? That's not Summer, that's another boy. Summer hated that child & he's alive today.
- "They didn't investigate."
Yes, they did.
"Don't be stupid. This is one of the biggest fuck ups of all time!"
You're the one being stupid.
- r238, visit Web Sleuths. They'll set your ass straight.
They fucked up massively. Meanwhile, these people have been rotting out in the desert since 2010, and they closed the book on it.
- Do you think that investigators really believed the family just took off for Mexico, or was it just a red herring until they uncovered more evidence, like the 4 dead bodies?
Why did Michael McStay advise the police early on to look out in the desert for graves? What did he find on the family computer that he absconded with and refused to relinquish to the police upon their request? Have the frightening threats of the oldest son's stepfather been taken seriously?
- [quote]Do you think that investigators really believed the family just took off for Mexico
Yes. Almost 4 years later...
[quote]Why did Michael McStay advise the police early on to look out in the desert for graves?
It was a feeling he had. These types of statements were made publicly for years.
[quote]What did he find on the family computer that he absconded with and refused to relinquish to the police upon their request?
You'll have to refresh my memory, do you have a link, because the computers were searched. You can't delete anything even if you tried.
- I thought Nancy was going to cover this story last night, but it turns out there was another scandal involving a baby buried somewhere.
A military guy and his trashy wife apparently flew the coop with their two children, but once they found the parents in some cheap hotel room they only had one of the kids with them.
They were testing the remains found buried to try and match them up. It seems there is no end to these gruesome stories.
- Web Sleuths is a pain in the ass to navigate. I went over trying to find info and couldn't find a specific blog and apparently you can't read it unless you join.
- R243 Apparently the posters over at WebSleuths make the Datalounge look like nursery school.
Get a load of the drama at this link...it seems like "Tricia", one of the owners is getting her ass sued...
- Websleuths is no shit. They are serious over there and have actually solved some crimes.
To join you can't simply register. You have to email the administrator, but it just takes a couple of days to get on.
It's a black hole of info....a LOT there.
- Websleuths should have a tv show. Cancel that fat dumb hillbilly fuck, Nancy Grace, and give these people her timeslot stat!
- What does DL think of the following info, re the oldest son's stepfather, who had repeatedly threatened the McStays:
"Other charges filed against Michael J. McFadden included:
459/460(a) PC - Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC - Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC - Domestic Violence
07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five ... 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC - Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC - Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC - Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC - Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC - Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed"
- Wow, R247. I wonder if there's any significance to the July 16 date. Offenses occurred on that date two difference years. All but one charge dismissed. Do you know anything about the incidents?
- Yikes R247. I'll be placing my money on the stepfather getting arrested. Doesn't look like killing children would be an issue for him.
- "Websleuths is no shit. They are serious over there and have actually solved some crimes."
They don't solve crimes. Some of the websleuths posters are interesting and intelligent but others are dumb freeper types and hysterical fraus
- R248, True confession; I cheated by scanning a few pages of others' comments, as I always do on interesting topics, and copied the info. By posting anonymously, someone in the know who doesn't have the authority to make a public statement can communicate, and allow others to speculate and elaborate.
The grandfather has said he has 3 main suspects, and I'm sure McFadden heads his list.
- It had to be more than one person. You can't control a family of four alone.
- The lady who owns Websleuths has a weekly True Crime podcast. I just listened to one that featured Rick Baker, the guy who wrote the McStay book. Hearing him speak gave me a much different impression of him than just reading the random comments about his intentions that are all over the web right now. Because his theories in the book were wrong, he removed the book from Amazon, and is offering a full refund for anyone who purchased the book and would like their money back. He feels guilt that his theories (that the McStays vanished voluntarily) helped the real culprit by deflecting attention from them.
His sources have told him that there were three shallow graves found in the desert (rather than the two that have been reported), but one was empty. The empty grave was processed for evidence, however, and the authorities did find evidence there. He also confirmed that both parents' hands were bound, and that the children had been partially unearthed, presumably due to animals.
On the podcast he describes Summer McStay in unflattering terms, including her work with an unscrupulous mortgage refi company known for ripping people off He did admit he never met Summer, though, and says she was "uncomfortable in her own skin".
He gives a play-by-play of how Joseph's family was worried about the McStays, and I got the distinct impression that Mike McStay (the brother) is a piece of shit. He lied about going to check on them when his dad asked him to visit the house, for reasons that are unclear.
I recommend the podcast, but Tricia's co-host (Michael) is annoying and was very rude to the second guest on the podcast episode. (One of the children from Yours, Mine and Ours, who wrote a book about the abusive environment that was not depicted in the Lucille Ball film)
He interrupted him constantly and asked questions that appeared to blame the victim, if that makes sense.
I use the Podcast Addict app on my Galazy. To find the podcast I just typed "True Crime" in the search field and Tricia's podcast was the #1 search result. I raked two bags of leaves this morning while I listened, so the time was not completely wasted.
- Why would I believe him now? NOW, he has GOOD sources?!
- Here's the podcast.
- I know, R254, but after I listened to what he had to say, I have a different opinion of him.
Also, I heard Tricia say on another podcast that Websleuths has received several subpeonas (sp?) over the years for IP addresses of certain posters. The posters apparently gave information that indicated inside knowledge. It is well-known that criminals often re-visit the scene of the crime, so maybe posting on the website is the same type of experience for them.
- Holy SHIT @ R256 last paragraph
- Lots of crazies on that website. This is likely a big reason why Websleuths won't allow anonymous posters to comment, and rejects applicants with certain email addresses---I guess the addresses that can't be traced.
- R253, Until I get a response from my email request, can you keep us updated on Websleuths? I also feel that the brother Mike could have been
a stronger advocate when the family first went missing. Why did he remove the computer, let his kids wander around the home which was a possible crime scene, and even know to tell the police to start searching the desert for possible bodies?
Also many tipsters overhear bits of information, or are speculating based on at best third hand knowledge, and would not post if they couldn't stay anonymous. Why risk a valuable source?
- Rick Baker is a Christian pastor, and his book is published by a Christian publishing company. His other two books are all about Jesus and being saved.
- So far it seems like the most likely suspects are: the McFadden guy with the rap sheet, Michael McStay, Dan Kavanaugh and Chase M. All seemingly shady. And the wildcard possibility of a stranger(s) - Israel Keyes or some other psychopath. I have a feeling this will be another JonBenet case. Nobody will ever be brought to justice and people will be speculating about it for years to come. But I hope I'm wrong.
- Baker is a shitstain
- Just remember, those desperate to help the police are usually the culprit.
- You know that's total nonsense, R263.
- R263 is Rose Nyland still posting in this thread.
- [quote]Also, I heard Tricia say on another podcast that Websleuths has received several subpeonas (sp?) over the years for IP addresses of certain posters. The posters apparently gave information that indicated inside knowledge. It is well-known that criminals often re-visit the scene of the crime, so maybe posting on the website is the same type of experience for them.
I've wondered if Michelle McNamara's very public interest in the Golden State Killer/East Area Rapist is an attempt to smoke him out. She's done the features for LA Magazine, has a website, has done a Reddit Q&A, and I believe she's writing a book.
- I have been reading John Douglas' books regarding his criminal profiling work for the FBI. (Recently finished "The Cases that Haunt Us" and am working on "The Anatomy of a Motive".)
When discussing cases he does mention the strategy of working with a journalist to release information in a strategic manner to help solve the case.
Examples of this include publishing the Unabomber's Manifesto in it's entirely in the newspaper (his brother recognized who wrote it immediately) and an arson case in the Seattle area where Douglas released key theories regarding the arsonist and his background. The arsonist's father and brother immediately knew who the guilty party was and worked with the FBI to get a confession without further loss of life.
So what McNamara is doing might indeed be a strategic ruse, although she might want to make money on the book, too. You need to solve the case to have a good ending to the book.
FYI Ann Rule was a struggling Seattle-area single mother who wrote stories for True Crime Magazine decades ago. She volunteered working nights at a domestic abuse hotline and her co-worker was Ted Bundy. (!) They became close friends (a mother-son type of relationship) and he even walked her to her car at night due to the scary murders that were happening in the community. (Ted's doing, of course...)
Once Ted was arrested for murders in Washington, Utah, Colorado, etc, she stayed in touch with him and in the meantime became a celebrated true crime author. Only after Bundy was tried and executed could she finish her book The Killer Beside Me.
Actually she may have finished it after he was convicted, but the version I read was updated with info regarding Ted's execution. Good book, by the way...
Ann Rule was lucky in several different ways...
- I am now convinced that Israel Keyes did this, just WOW.
- R268: According to what Keyes told authorities, he did not kill children b/c he had a young daughter. Also, when describing how he targeted houses, he did not go into houses with dogs.
- Israel Keyes has nothing to do with this.
- "Also, when describing how he targeted houses, he did not go into houses with dogs."
Maybe he killed them while they were traveling, not at their home...
- [quote]It had to be more than one person. You can't control a family of four alone.
Sure you can, just bring a gun or grab a kid and hold a knife to his throat. Presto - control.
There may be more than one person involved in these killings but more than one person wasn't necessary.
- R273, you have to get people controlled in a car. It's just not possible. It was more than one individual.
- R273, not true.
Israel Keyes took a couple from their home in Vermont at gunpoint in their OWN car while HE drove! He had managed to get them tied up ahead of time. Anyway he killed them both. Acted alone.
- Was he in the area at the time? What did he do with the bodies?
- R275 yes he was known to be in the area at the time, and had family in San Diego he frequently visited.
Israel Keyes is honestly the most fascinating serial killer I've ever read about.
Anyway, not to derail the McStay thread, but authorities believe Keyes killed at LEAST 12 people. They could only link him to four, before he committed suicide in jail. He didn't want to tell them all the others, because he wanted to protect his daughter.
When asked why he wouldn't just give up the names of all his victims, he not only said he didn't know all their names, but that most of them were not even high-profile. He was asked, "Well don't you think the families would want to know?" and he answered, "I wouldn't. I'd rather think they had just run away and were on the beach down in Mexico, rather than raped and murdered."
- I've only just started to read about Israel Keyes since his name came up on this thread, but what I've read is truly chilling. He seemed to have no motive and no special reasons for picking his victims.
For the family and friends of the McStay family I hope he wasn't the killer. I would Imagine it's hard enough to deal with a person, or family, being murdered. It has to be SO much harder to deal with it when the murder is completely random with no motivation.
- Yep, he just did it for the adrenaline rush and no other reason, but got careless and sloppy at the end.
He was extraordinarily patient, and thought things out VERY well. He would fly, then drive thousands of miles even just to kill people he didn't even know.
What gets me the most is he was said to have had a lot of integrity in his personal life, was a loving father, a good boyfriend, gentle, thoughtful, kind and compassionate with his friends and family. Just bizarre...
- Home Video
- Home Video.
- This seems to be his Youtube account.
- I'm psychic. I'm telling you this has something to do with some type of cult or religous faction. The family went willingly with the people who killed them. The leaders of this cult are a man and a woman, the woman is about 10 years older than her husband/partner. I say partner because i'm not sure they are married. The cult is some type of hybrid of New-Age and Christianity with a belief in a second coming. There is also a component of "fighting evil" of something like it. I honestly want to say this is like a form of what we would call witchcraft as I do think that spells and cleansings are a part of the belief structure. The children may have been given poison before being shot. The husband and kids were probably killed about the same time. The wife died last. She may have been sexually assaulted.
This cult is about 14 members strong and growing. They will kill again if not caught. They also have ties to drugs and guns, like smuggling or running or something like that.
- R284 meet meds. Meds R284 needs you badly.
- I've worked with police before R285 but I do not seek out public attention. I turn down media requests for a interview for a story. It was a weird freak thing where one cop came to me in desperation and then he spread it by word of mouth. I do not seek them out, they come to me. However, there are some cases I just can't read and I'm not shy telling them if and when I can't pick up on anything. I don't charge a dime for missing persons or criminal cases. However, if you want to know about your love life, your career, or where you misplaces that ring, well that will cost you. ;)
Things like this pretty much always involve other family.
- People in the comments on those YouTube clips comment that the wife sounds jumpy and nervous about driving in certain areas. They seemed tense!
- Wow, it's depressing to watch these vids. It's easy to feel detached just reading about them in the news, but to see and hear them full of life knowing what happened, not long afterward...it's creepy.
They seem like a completely normal middle class family, though.
- [quote] a interview
- I'm thinking they willingly went to someone else's house to visit and ended up murdered. I don't think anyone could have killed them in their house. Someone would have heard something, and packing up a car with dead bodies isn't easy. Surveillance cameras caught the car driving away. Why would they bring their kids? Was it someone they knew? Was it a Craigslist dealer? Maybe they couldn't find a babysitter.
- R291, No. I'm the psychic who posted above. They were killed at the spot they were found. They went willingly with their killers because it's like a cult. They were not murdered somewhere else and then taken to Mexico and buried. They were alive when they traveled to Mexico. The cult will kill again. However, I don't think the media and cops will connect it. It may be years before any connections are made.
- Sylvia Browne, is that you?
- So how come a "psychic" didn't tell all and sundry about this whole thing right when it happened? All this time the surviving McStay family could have had closure and had their family members buried in the family plot instead of rotting away in shallow graves in the desert.
Besides, if you were truly "psychic" you would be on TV with the rest of the whack-a-doodles saying shit that has the gullibles looking shocked and paying more for more info.
- R293, Nope. She was an el fako. I'm the real deal.
I'm telling you right now this family was caught up with a cult/faction of people about 14 members strong and growing. They are a mixture New-Age, Christianity, and Hispanic witchcraft-type spirituality. They also deal drugs and guns and may have ties to gangs. The family went willingly. They kids may have been poisoned before being shot. The husband and kids died first, the mother died last and may have been sexually assaulted. This cult/faction will kill again and will probably not be discovered for years. I want to say there is a connection to Santa Muerte, the figure of the Grimm Reaper that many Mexicans venerate. I sort of get that vibe. The leaders of this cult is a man and woman who are in a relationship. I don't think they are married. The woman is about 10 years older than the man. Her face is potmarked with acne and she has gray hair. She is short and fat and he is more muscular and slim, with a mustache. I get the names Edwardo and Rodriguez but these names are so common I don't think they will help. I get a name starting with an R for the woman, like Rosa, Rosita, something like that, and Lopez. Again, the names are too vague but I will throw them out there anyway.
I'm the real deal. I'm not fake. I use my abilities because there is just far too much evil in this world. I hope this info can lead to the solving of their murders but I do feel it may be years before the case is solved.
- R294, I know you are skeptical, that's fine. If you have't figured out yet I'm not like the fakos who give general info. I'm a real psychic. I'm not God and I don't see everything. However, when I do see stuff it's specific in nature and I don't give cold readings or anything like that. Sorry, I'm just trying to do what I can but I would never go on t.v.or anything like that. I don't want publicity.
- Are you saying they were killed when they went to Mexico? They weren't found near Mexico, they were buried outside Victorville.
- R297, the vehicle was found by the Mexican border. Yes, their remains were found in Victorville. There is a Mexican connection to their deaths. I believe some of the cult temporarily fled to Mexico while others stayed behind.
- I'm really getting scared you guys! This is spooky!
- OK, 298, I'll play. Were the McStays becoming close to cult members or were the killings random?
- R300, I think the McStays were suckered in. This is going to be weird, especially since I am a psychic, but I think the cult used fake psychic readings to lure them in. From there I think they convinced them they were cursed or under threat of evil and needed special rituals to cleanse them of the evil. It was a process by which the McStays started out as just being open minded but with time they got suckered in and became full believers.
- They never went to Mexico. They weren't killed in Mexico. They weren't buried in Mexico.
You're a really shitty "psychic" if you can't even keep your "predictions" in line with what is actually known about the case.
Begone, you're either a deliberate fraud or a loon.
- No worries, R301, there's no chance anyone will ever become a believer in you.
- OK, 301, why kill them of they were becoming believers? Did you "know" this before the bodies were found.
I'm willing to give you some benefit of the doubt as I know that police agencies do use physics at times.
- But why would a cult kill them, what was the motive?
- R304 304 here, giving myself an
- Kind of crazy how both the McStays and the Jamisons have been found about a week apart.
- I was just thinking that, R307.
- [quote]Kind of crazy how both the McStays and the Jamisons have been found about a week apart.
- Will you stop engaging with the psychic troll?!
- [quote]I've worked with police before [R285] but I do not seek out public attention.
And by "worked" you mean you sent the cops a bunch of letters and hounded them on the phone to give them your "feelings" about a crime.
Cops don't use psychics. They quit that kind of shit a couple decades ago after they realized that psychics are nothing more than attention whores.
- There are alot of dangerous underground cults out there. I think the family definitely knew their abductors and were either coerced into leaving or were fleeing. I can't imagine anyone leaving their dogs behind like that without even a phone to get someone to check on the dogs etc.
And I hope they catch the bastard child killing scum that did this. I think it was more than one person involved since it would take 2 to drop off the car near Mexico. Both parents seem shady. Too bad the kids became victims too.
- There aren't underground cults out there. You're probably sliding into schizophrenia or some other psychosis. Most people who claim to be psychic are suffering from schizophrenia. The slow, insidious type. Try a round of anti-psychotics. Group homes and halfway houses are loaded up with your kind. Figure out the meds or you'll end up there.
- "Most people who claim to be psychic are suffering from schizophrenia."
No, most are just greedy assholes who want to use their "psychic" powers for $$$$
- Anyone heard an update?
- The family is still dead, R315.
- Why haven't they arrested anyone yet?
Or released information from the autopsies?
What the hell?
- It appears that the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, who has taken over the case from both San Diego and the FBI, is refusing to make any public statements or release any information relating to their investigation.
- That whole area is rife with gangs and drug trafficking. I think that would be the likely explanation.
- [quote]Why haven't they arrested anyone yet?
Um, because they don't know who did it, Einstein.
- I've wondering about that too R317. This is the latest.