- Their songs do not sound all the same. Sure, you can tell it''s a Nirvana song, but you can say the same about Led Zeppelin, Earth, Wind and Fire or The Red Hot Chili Peppers.
- [quote]Their songs do not sound all the same.\
I love them, but actually they do sound the same -- they have the exact same chord progressions.
- you have no taste
- Loved Nirvana. Still do.
- [quote]you have no taste\
You don''t like Nirvana?\
Sent from my iPhone.
- All Pearl Jam songs sound the same, too.
- True, R6, but Eddie Vedder hasn''t offed himself, so ... that''s kind of doing it better.\
Sent from my iPhone.
- So are you saying Pearl Jam''s MUSIC was better, OP, or are you saying they were the superior band because their front-man didn''t kill himself? \
Those are two completely separate things. \
Pearl Jam never released anything that could hold a candle to a single song on "In Utero." And I believe people 200 years in the future will still find Nirvana''s "MTV Unplugged" compelling - again, something you can''t say about anything Vedder and Co. did.
- [quote]Eddie Vedder hasn''t offed himself, so ... that''s kind of doing it better.\
Eddie wasn''t married to Courtney Love.
- Cripes, even Smashing Pumpkins were better than Pearl Jam!
- OP, do All Apologies, Son of a Gun, Breed, Something in the Way or Milk It [italic]really[/italic] sound alike?
- When was the last time you listened to Pearl Jam? They are an amazing band.
- Agree with the OP and R12. Sorely underrated. It kind of pisses me off.
At the time, Pearl Jam was acknowledged to be the better, and more authentic, band.
Only martyrdom for Cobain changed that.
(I also think that, without a doubt, Live Through This is a superior record to Nevermind, although I acknowledge that Kurt Cobain likely played a role in its greatness.)
- Nirvana did use the same chord progressions. And they weren't very complicated either.
I always find it funny when some people, not in this thread, say how crappy some pop music is especially compared to one of their beloved rock bands when the only thing that separates the songs are some over-amped guitars and usually frequently inane lyrics.
There I said it.
Musician who's into all different kinds of music
- Not a fan of either band but Nirvana was better than Pearl Jam. Anyone noticed how lead-footed the drummer of PJ was/is? It really bothered me.
- R13, I actually don't remember that at all. Mind you not being a fan of either, I didn't follow the coverage of them very closely. But I vaguely remember Pearl Jam's street cred was questioned a lot in the early 90's. Basically that they were a less inspired band than Nirvana.
- Some of the best rock and pop songs ever recorded used simple chord progressions. So I'm not sure why it should be held against Nirvana or any other band for that matter.
- Pearl Jam's songs don't sound the same. Just comparing Ten (1999) and No Code (1996) - two completely different albums.
- I loved Pearl Jam but after Vitalogy they completely lost the plot.
- After Vitalogy, Eddie V got stalked to the point he was afraid to leave his apartment. When PJ recorded Mirrorball with Neil Young, EV was AWOL.
EV said the situation was resolved, but he (and the music) was never the same after, except for a bit on Riot Act (2002)
- Hipsters continue to delude themselves about the extent of Mr Cobain's talent (who seemed like a wonderful humble guy BTW)
- [quote]Just comparing Ten (1999)
- I found out Pearl Jam has a cult fanbase where fans follow them around state to state like the Grateful dead and Jimmy Buffet..PJ still sellout in stadiums with some fans attending their 200th shows.
- Pearl Jam's cred was questioned by Courtney Love. Kurt bitched about them being too guitar-centric and not "grunge", but he was friends with Ed.
Even if you didn't like "Ten", that album was released 20 years ago. They made a conscious choice to hop off the MTV marketing train and have endured.
The drummer who played on "Ten" left the band due to substance abuse issues before it was even released. They went through a Spinal Tap like series of drummers before Soundgarden disbanded and Matt Cameron joined PJ in 1998.
By the way, I think Nirvana was great, too. But I'm not sure why Pearl Jam is continually marginalized 20 years later.
- I just discovered them and they're an awesome band. Does anyone know when they're going to do a US tour?
- OP, completely disagree that their songs sounds the same. As said earlier, like many bands Nirvana have a distinct 'sound' but that's hardly a criticism
R13, there's no way that Pearl Jam were ever more critically esteemed or had more credibility than Nirvana. I remember the reviews of Nevermind - I've never seen a band get universal glowing reviews from a range of magazines. People openly sneered at Pearl Jam for their earnestness and for Eddie Vedder's tendency to take himself so seriously.
- The structure of Nirvana's songs does tend to be the same. Still like them, but they were limited.
That does not mean that could never change, of course.
- Mark Arm recently kicked out the jams with Pearl Jam at PJ20.
- I will give Nirvana this. They knocked the boring "GLAM METAL" genre nonsense apart. Nirvana gave the audience something fresh and exciting than Mr. Big, Poison, Lita Ford, Faster Pussycat, Motley Crue, Ratt, and even Whitesnake.
- Weren't Nirvana like the US version of Oasis?
- OP, I was just thinking this morning that Pearl Jam is the most amazing band to have come out of the 90s. Back then, I didn't appreciate them nearly as much as I do now. Their music is timeless.
- Alice in Chains were a far more melodic and downright gothic band than either Nirvana or Pearl Jam.
Eddie Vedder has progressed and grown because he, you know, actually did not blow his brains out like Cobain did. But, Vedder was a lowly ranked child actor who hopped on the grunge bandwagon while the getting was good.
Meanwhile. Cobain just had humble and simple skills but he was by far a more creative writer than Vedder. He also could scream on key and that is easier said than done.
Nirvana or just Cobain himself would have progressed at a faster clip than Pearl Jam because of their collective and humble skills with melody.
- I got sick of hearing Kurt Cobain sing about guns: "load up on guns and bring your friends" "he's the one who writes all those pretty songs and he likes to sing along and he likes to shoot his gun", "and I swear that I don't have a gun, that I don't have a gun, that I don't have a gun..."
- Kurt was never going to be able to write the songs he did and survive concurrently. His songs came from his depression, drug addiction, criminal taste in women and suicidal tendencies. If he had somehow recovered from the addiction, gotten free of Courtney, and been treated for his depression who knows what would have happened. But he wouldn't have been writing the same types of songs.
- I totally agree with you, r34.
- R29, what would have happened to Jani Lane, if it weren't for Nirvana?
- [quote]At the time, Pearl Jam was acknowledged to be the better, and more authentic, band.
Yeah, by ASSHOLES.
Pearl Jam makes shit music for frat boys, no different than the Dave Matthews Band (or more recently) Jack Johnson.
- Pearl Jam may be more diverse musically but Nirvana rocked harder."You know you're right" knocks the walls down.
- i wish you could make a poll in thread
- The thing about the Nirvana wasn't just the music (which, to me, is amazing). It was about the lyrics, the scream, the melody. Yeah, the chords were simple, but so were Dylan's.
It was also the whole shift in culture that arose in Nirvana's wake. It was a complete sea change from what came before (Hair metal, GnR over the top antics, Michael Jackson, etc.). It came from nowhere, seemingly, and felt fresh and new and vibrant. I mean, years before he was famous, Kurt spray painted "GOD IS GAY" on a wall in his home town. To a 14 year old kid (me) that seemed like the coolest thing of all time.
Even without that cultural stuff, I would put Nirvana in the top ten important rock bands of all time easily.
Pearl Jam was good, solid rock band. But not an important one. There's just a difference.
- Kurt Cobain was absolutely brilliant. People were completely blindsided by his death. He would've continued to be an amazing artist. He really wanted to expand musically.
- Eddie Vedder's new solo album centered around the ukulele seems ridiculous but is actually very interesting.
- [quote]Kurt Cobain was absolutely brilliant. People were completely blindsided by his death.
No we weren't -- you could hear him dying in "In Utero," then came the OD in Rome, and finally, the shotgun.
- I just remember all of the douchey jocks LOVED Pearl Jam. It was a total turnoff.
- Would we even know who Pearl Jam/Eddie Vetter is if Nirvana had never happened?
They might not have been technically the best, there is always someone better, but they were the first.
- There are a lot of bands that owe their great good fortune to Nirvana. Once everyone saw how much money there was to be made on Grunge, record companies were signing up just about every garage band in Seattle.
- Eddie Vedder was and is hot to death, so I'm certain he would have been famous anyway.
- Nirvana is more punk pop where Pearl Jam is more moody heartland rock. If they hadn't emerged from the same region at the same time, no one would think to compare them.
Right Said Fred came out around the same time--you don't see people comparing Nirvana or PJ to them.
- Was the poster above kidding that Eddie Vedder had been a child actor?
- [quote]I got sick of hearing Kurt Cobain sing about guns: "load up on guns and bring your friends" "he's the one who writes all those pretty songs and he likes to sing along and he likes to shoot his gun", "and I swear that I don't have a gun, that I don't have a gun, that I don't have a gun..."
The lyric is "He's the one who likes all our pretty songs, and he likes to sing along, and he likes to shoot his gun, but he don't know what it means"
The song is mocking idiot fans that don't understand the meaning of his lyrics.
- I don't know who was a better group, but I hate Nirvana for bringing grunge clothing to popularity. I hated every one walking arround looking like a homeless person ugghh
- They were bad for USA indie music. Well grunge was bad for it. My older brother loved them, I was a bit too young for Nirvana, He had a poster of "Singles" (he Bridget Fonda film) on his bedroom wall. Singles really was the first culturally important film I can recall.
- "Would we even know who Pearl Jam/Eddie Vetter is if Nirvana had never happened?"
Yes. Pearl Jam's album Ten came out a month before Nirvana's Nevermind.
- Sadly, I think Kurt was kind of a fraud. His voice could not maintain that screaming range outside of a studio situation. And his lyrics smack of someone sitting around all day moping and slacking while his doormat girlfriend pays the bills. Writing lines he thought were rilly COOL, then tossing them into air and piecing the sentences together into nonsensical songs- like Rosemary Wodehouse doing an anagram on the floor.
- Hate Pearl Jam because of the affected singing of Eddie. Kurt was a better singer and songwriter.
- I like both but consider Nirvana to be the more culturally relevant of the two.
- [quote]Was the poster above kidding that Eddie Vedder had been a child actor?
Nope. He really was a low rent child actor. He was also raised in Southern California and fucked about some until he figured on getting into what was then the 'underground' grunge scene.
The dude could very well have some integrity by now. But, back in the day, he hadn't any at all. He was a poser for the longest while.
- [quote]No we weren't -- you could hear him dying in "In Utero," then came the OD in Rome, and finally, the shotgun
Wrong. Rome was a murder attempt and he wasn't even shot. There was no blood at the crime scene.
- R54, you obviously never saw Nirvana live. Kurt sounded amazing live. He could absolutely scream on key, live or in the studio.
- Sonic Youth; give them a listen and Nirvana sound like camp.
- Did you know that Thurston & Kim are getting a divorce?
Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and Thurston Moore have announced the end of their 27-year marriage. The split leaves an uncertain future for the pioneering alternative rock band, who formed three decades ago and have fall tour dates planned.
A statement from their rep at Matador Records reads, "Musicians Kim Gordon and Thurston Moore, married in 1984, are announcing they have separated. Sonic Youth, with both Kim and Thurston involved, will proceed with its South American tour dates in November. Plans beyond that tour are uncertain. The couple has requested respect for their personal privacy and does not wish to issue further comment."
Gordon, 58, and Moore, 53, have a 17-year-old daughter Coco.
The band's most recent album, 2009's The Eternal, earned a four-star review from Rolling Stone, which said the album "sums up almost everything this band has done over three decades, punk sneers and psychedelic guitars pimping a proudly pretentious belief in rock as art."
In a 2007 interview with Rolling Stone, when asked who was the coolest famous person he'd ever met, Moore answered "It would have to be Kim G! For sure. Believe me, she was unbelievable when I first met her. She wore this sort of hip prison-stripe outfit and flip-up shades on her glasses. She had a ponytail, a little ponytail that was sort of center at the back of her head and I thought, 'That's the coolest fucking person I've ever met.'"
- Pearl Jam Twenty aired on PBS last night. The band comes off great, especially Stone Gossard who is just adorable. But Cameron Crowe makes the mistake of injecting himself into the story a little too much. Not to mention they never speak with any of the previous four drummers, or to any wives/girlfriends/family members for any insight. It's basically the band and Chris Cornell.
The other complaint I have is that Crowe glosses over most things. Eddie's father wasn't really his father, he wrote a song about it - but why isn't he asked about what it meant to him? 9 fans die during a PJ show at Roskilde, which clearly had an enormous impact on the band. It's mentioned for sure, but it seems like just another blip from their history. They kind of show albums but never really talk about them much - it was weird.
- I really would put Nirvana in the same league as Sonic Youth. Daydream Nation and Sister are as close to music becoming high art as possible.
- My god! Do you people know that you sound exactly like today's teenagers arguing about which one was better two years ago: Tokyo Hotel or Panic! at the Disco. Or which band has more street cred: My Chemical Romance or Paramore.
Both Pearl Jam and Nirvana made good music. Both made an impact in the nineties. The so-called grunge scene needed them both just as much. Just as it needed Alice in Chains and Soundgarden as well.
This from a person who had a crush on Eddie Vedder back then and probably would've moved to Seattle if he had had more courage.
What the fuck? Eddie Vedder didn't grow up in California. He MOVED TO San Diego with Beth before Pearl Jam. He was born and lived in Chicago (Evanston)! He was NOT a fucking child actor, for god's sake.
I was happy they gave Mother Love Bone its due and to hear that music again.
The kids were very physical with each other -- other than Bruce, rarely seen in eldergay bands.
Of all the fragile blond boys in rock, Kurt was the most delicate. These days, there would be no Courtney -- rather, some Asian girl.
I think the movie was more about The Band, and then about The Band and fame. It wasn't supposed to do more than bolster the history found in the companion book.
- It's the 200th birthday of Romantic composer and piano virtuoso Franz Liszt (1811). He was born in Raiding, Hungary, and was composing by the age of eight. By the time he was 16, he was exhausted from studying and touring all over Europe, and he expressed a desire to become a priest. He earned his living as a piano teacher after his father died, and when he was 17, he fell in love with one of his pupils. Her father insisted she end the romance, at which point Liszt became so ill that his obituary appeared in a Paris newspaper. He gave up on the idea of the priesthood, but later in life spent many years composing religious music inspired by his interest in Gregorian plainsong; the religious establishment didn't approve of it, and so it wasn't published until many years after his death. In the 1860s, following the death of two of his children, he eventually joined a monastery outside Rome. Though he received the four minor orders of porter, acolyte, exorcist, and lector, he never became a priest.
In many ways, Liszt was ahead of his time, and not just musically. He gained a reputation as a humanitarian, and at the height of his popularity he would give concerts specifically to earn money for disaster relief. By the late 1850s, he was so wealthy that he gave all of his concert fees to charity. Liszt was also charismatic, and his onstage presence inspired what may have been the first example of widespread fan frenzy. It began in Berlin in 1842 and came to be known as "Lisztomania." His admirers would follow him around, snatching up his discarded cigar butts, coffee dregs, and broken piano strings. They fought over his handkerchiefs and gloves, and would scream and faint at his performances. Rather than being considered a harmless and amusing fad, Lisztomania was viewed as a serious, and contagious, medical condition.
- [quote]Of all the fragile blond boys in rock, Kurt was the most delicate. These days, there would be no Courtney -- rather, some Asian girl.
What is this supposed to mean?
- I agree with r61, Nirvana were the mainstream, diluted down version on Sonic Youth.
- I find it odd that some people in here are saying how hot Eddie Vedder was when Kurt Cobain was far better looking.
Eddie Vedder always seemed so fake to me. He used to do this hilarious thing where he'd shake his head(I think he does it in the Jeremy video) that was supposed to portray intensity or something. It was so fake, he must've stopped when he realized how idiotic he looked.
Of course, Nirvana were a far better band.
- R59, do you remember which Nirvana show you saw? I am so jealous. How would you describe the concert?
- Kurt Cobain's grandfather seems to be the only family member of Kurt that isn't afraid to say that Kurt was murdered by Courtney Love. According to Kurt's grandfather, Kurt's own father will not even speak about Kurt at all. Kurt's father knows what really happened.
- If I could've met one celebrity who was alive during my lifetime, it would've been Kurt Cobain. Even as a kid at the time, I knew that he was enormously special. He was a fresh talent that was just getting started. Nirvana's music was inspired, unpretentious, and heartfelt.
- [quote]Kurt Cobain's grandfather seems to be the only family member of Kurt that isn't afraid to say that Kurt was murdered by Courtney Love.
Is that true? I'd never heard that.
- They were both great bands, and preferance is a very personal thing. I allway liked Nirvana better.
I don't remember where I heard/read it, but what R73 wrote is true. That Kurt Cobain's grandfather seems to be the only family member of Kurt that isn't afraid to say that Kurt was murdered by Courtney Love.
Totaly OT, I work in a morgue (not the head medical examiner) but I am also a medical examiner, I do almost all of the autopsies, except for any that are high profile, but I assist on them. Looking at Kurt Cobain's autopsy report there were so many things that just didn't add up. For awhile we used his autopsy report as a training tool for the autopsy assistants and new medical examiners.
There was a good thread on it a while back, I was going to post on it (from a medical examiner's poin of view)but couldn't find it once I got home.
- How was In Utero received? Kurt loved The Beatles & was impressed by their progression as artists. Was In Utero cOnsidered better or was it just ok?
- As I recall In Utero was perhaps not as universally well received as Nevermind, but for the most part it received rave reviews. Frankly I think the biggest difference was the production (Butch Vig vs. Steve Albini). Nirvana was actually not completely happy with the Albini mix of In Utero and ended up bringing in R.E.M.'s producer to remix Heart Shaped Box and All Apologies.
- Here's the enormous Nirvana/Kurt Cobain thread:
- R78, after In Utero was released, Nirvana used Scott Litt again in early 1994 to rework Pennyroyal Tea, which was going to be the next single. The single was not released posthumously because a b side was the song "I Hate Myself And Want To Die'. The song was meant as a complete joke, which Kurt explained when he was alive.
Kurt was unhappy with the way the In Utero version of Pennyroyal Tea sounded, but I happen to vastly prefer it to the Scott Litt version(but I suspect that Scott Litt enhanced Heart Shaped Box and All Apologies).
- I've also read that the return rate from unsatisfied customers was relatively high for In Utero, probably a lot of the bandwagon fans couldn't handle the new sound. And it's sales were much lower than the sales for Pearl Jam's 'Vs.'.
Of course, In Utero is a great album deserving classic status.
- Dang, r80.
- What's interesting is that Kurt accused Pearl Jam - especially Stone and Jeff, who had been in Green River and then Mother Love Bone before starting PJ - of being careerists and "cock rockers" who just wanted to make money. Between Nevermind and the release of In Utero Kurt told Krist and Dave that he wanted to change the distribution of royalties, which had been 1/3 each. Because he wrote the vast majority of the songs, he wanted to get 75% and they would split 25%. Krist and Dave did not object, but then Kurt said he wanted this to be retroactive to Nevermind. They didn't like that and this caused a lot of tension within the band. There is no way Nirvana would have stayed together past 1995 (in fact, I think they were basically broken up at the time of Kurt's death).
Kurt was just as much a careerist as anyone in Pearl Jam and the truth is that at least as a band, PJ ended up being a much stronger and enduring unit.
- Kurt said he wanted to quit Nirvana and join Hole. I think that is ample enough reason for Courtney, ever the narcissist, to want him dead.
- OMG, r65 is SO pretentious!!!
- Krist Novoselic tries too hard to be funny.
- Yep, r86.
- Site about the Pennyroyal Tea single:
- Link to the section about the unrealized music video:
- "Between Nevermind and the release of In Utero Kurt told Krist and Dave that he wanted to change the distribution of royalties, which had been 1/3 each. Because he wrote the vast majority of the songs, he wanted to get 75% and they would split 25%. Krist and Dave did not object, but then Kurt said he wanted this to be retroactive to Nevermind. They didn't like that and this caused a lot of tension within the band."
Yes, he did that alright. It was a really shitty thing to do. I tend to think that Courtney Love was the reason for it. I think she probably nagged the hell out of him to do it and eventually he couldn't stand it anymore, so he fucked over his own bandmates. I think that's how they got married; she nagged him and nagged and being the rather weak-willed person that he was, he finally married her. And he had to get fucked up on heroin to do it; he was high on heroin at their wedding. And that is not my opinion; it was reported in several places that he was stoned at his won wedding. Well, I guess he would have to be in order to marry THAT.
- AQUA SEAFOAM SHAME
- Here's a wedding photo - Courtney, pregnant and smoking, holding her archenemy Dave Grohl's hand, and Kurt, in his jammies and smacked out of his mind.
- I was in college during the release of Nevermind and In Utero - basically Nirvana's peak.
I always liked Nirvana, but never thought they were transcendent and immune from musical criticism. I can't believe people still argue Pearl Jam vs. Nirvana, or can't believe that anyone could think anything negative about Nirvana's music. They weren't THAT good.
- He wrote a song about Frances Farmer, you'd think that would endear to to DL.
- "He wrote a song about Frances Farmer, you'd think that would endear to to DL.'
Speaking of Frances Farmer...it was reported that the dress Courtney wore at her wedding was a dress that had belonged to Frances Farmer. It had dry rot. Classy.
- “Mad? Ya think?! If he came back right now I’d have to kill him, for what he did to us. I’d fucking kill him. I’d fuck him, and then I’d kill him,” 47-year-old Courtney Love shouted at Vanity Fair contributing editor Nancy Jo Sales, asked if she was angry with her husband, Kurt Cobain, for killing himself. “He tried to kill himself three times!” And then there were the drugs. “He OD’d at least five times. I was the fucking E.M.S. I was always sticking pins in his balls. I carried around Narcan!”—a drug used to jolt OD-ing heroin users back to life.
At the singer’s rented West Village town house, Love shows Sales a book from her estranged daughter Frances Bean’s “hope chest.” “This is her diary,” Love explains. “I just want you to look at this one page,” which contains a list titled, “Things That Make Me Smile.” Love, distraught, asks Sales, “Why am I not on it? Why doesn’t she put ‘watching old movies with my mom’?” Frances Bean emancipated herself from her mother two years ago, a decision that is clearly still bewildering and hurtful to Love. “All I can feel is how much I love her,” Love tells Sales. “I’d give anything to hear the sound of her heels walking down the hall past my bedroom.”
The relationship between Love and her daughter has been rough from the start, as Frances was placed in protective custody when she was born. “There were no drugs in my urine, no drugs in her urine when she was born,” Love says. She laments a number of her parenting failures, such as Frances’s inability to read until she was seven: “It was my fault! I never read to her! ... Why didn’t I ever take her to a Broadway show? She fucking loved those Broadway musicals!” There were times when, Love says, her daughter was teased by other children; “They called her ‘crack baby.’” Love also says Frances’s disappointments in show business came early, not just when she didn’t get the part of Sandy in a theater-camp production of Grease, but when agents and producers Love had contacted wanted Frances to do only racy roles. “That’s not who she is. It freaked her out. She wanted a Zoey 101 [the canceled Nickelodeon tween show] or something.”
Frances’s lawyer, Bryan Freedman, said in an e-mail to Vanity Fair that “the statements about [Frances’s] schooling are inaccurate…. The statements about her career desires, theater camp, show business, Nickelodeon, and the scripts are not accurate.”
The “hope chest” sits in Love’s room, among stacks of papers related to “the fraud,” a matter that consumes her attention whenever she isn’t talking about her daughter. Love contacted Sales after reading her January Vanity Fair story on the actor Randy Quaid and his wife, Evi, who allege that they have been defrauded and targeted for murder. “They make me look sane,” says Love. She hoped Sales might help her figure out what had become of her lost Nirvana money (more than $250 million, she claims).
“What’s heartbreaking to me,” says Jonathan Daniel, Love’s music manager, who grows impatient at any mention of “the fraud,” “is that she’s very capable of earning seven figures easy without any help from Nirvana right now, but it’s hard for her to work or for others to want to work with her when she’s so consumed with fraud.” Love’s home, Sales discovers, is command central for research on “the fraud.” Miscellaneous assistants make copies and send faxes related to “the fraud.”
According to Love, the money problems existed even when Kurt Cobain was alive. “We could never find our money!” she says. “We had $135,000 in our bank account. They said that if he would go do Lollapalooza he would make $11 million… Do you think Kurt would have killed himself if he had known he had $54 million?” That figure is based on research done by Love’s Twitter Army, her online fans and believers who are determined to get to the bottom of “the fraud.”
“They won’t be happy till I’m dead!” exclaims Love, of no one in particular.
- Just to compare and contrast, here is a link to the 1992 Vanity Fair interview that Courtney is always raging about. She hasn't changed a bit.
- After Kurt died, she'd pretend to commit suicide by gun on stage during Hole shows. Come on people, she fucking did it.
- well the timing of the death did match the european release of live thru this.....
i was meh about nirvana. but i will say that the writing was good. there are so many decent covers of their nos around now, show their longevity. sinead o'connor's all apologies is just an early example....
- Yes, Sinead's cover of All Apologies is beautiful. I think she understood what Kurt was conveying emotionally in the song.
And the release timing and title of 'Live Through This' is no coincidence. Courtney played up the troubled widow/survivor angle to the hilt, knowing that she inherited a lot of good will for herself now from Kurt's fans, who never liked or trusted her before his death.
- "She hasn't changed a bit."
Well, her face and body have changed. She's probably had as much plastic surgery as Michael Jackson. But she's still the same psycho she's always been. If anything, her mental condition is even worse than it was.
All these threads about Steve Jobs being "evil". Compared to Courtney Love he was Jesus Christ.
- I've been having a ton of Kurt Cobain related dreams lately. Last night I dreamt that I had been or was actually friends with him and knew him as a normal guy(wish fulfillment, I guess). In the dream I was on vacation with him(and my family) and he came down from the upstairs of the house we were renting wearing a bathrobe. I remember feeling very emotionally close to and protective of him.
- I just finished reading the "33 1/3" book about the making of In Utero. Good stuff. One of the fun bits of trivia: Kurt wrote the treatment for the video of Heart Shaped Box. He insisted that we see the old man wearing the santa hat climb up the cross. Otherwise, the later scene of him crucified was worthless.
Also, there's a fun story about the metallic shirt he wears in the video. It was custom made for him to wear in a photo shoot only. Kurt asked to keep the shirt and he was allowed to, but only if he promised not to wear it for any future promo shoots. Of course, he ended up wearing in the video.
- Thanks R104, I've been wanting to read that. Any interesting comments about Pennyroyal Tea?
Kurt had a wonderful visual and thematic sense/imagination. He was very involved with most of the videos, and the designs for Nevermind, In Utero, and the art for the singles. Also, he chose the presentation for the Unplugged show: stargazer lilies, candles, watery blue light, and the coverings on the walls.
For me the two big singles from Nevermind were SLTS and CAYA(although I loved the whole album). It was like "how are they going to live up to those song/video combinations with with their first single from the new album"? It seemed unlikely that they'd release something that impactful and interesting again.
Even a great song could still have fallen short of the huge expectations, but Heart-Shaped Box was wonderfully fulfilling. It was different but was just as much of an instant classic. Also, there is an alternate version of the video that shows Kurt laying on the ground unconscious among the flowers(which were poppies, maybe in reference to The Wizard of Oz).
I really wish we would've gotten one more studio album from Nirvana.
- This thread made me spend way too much time looking at old Nirvana photos and videos. I really think Nirvana changed music and culture - who the fuck knows what the nineties would have been like without them.
And I feel this strange motherly feeling towards Frances Bean...I can't figure out what she's done to her face surgically, but it's something. She looks more like Kurt than Courtney but she's the work she's had makes her look less like either of them. And stop smoking Frances!
I love these photos at the link.
- Thanks for the link, R106. She'd be nice looking if it weren't for the Courtney genes.
- Now this is just disturbing:
- Uh oh:
Frances Bean Cobain: Is She Engaged to the Rambles' Isaiah Silva? (And He Kinda Looks Like Kurt Cobain)
By Lilledeshan Bose
published: Mon., Oct. 24 2011 @ 3:22PM
Is Frances Bean Cobain engaged to local band The Rambles' Isaiah Silva? According to various sources around town--and Facebook--yes. Sources say that the two, who have been dating for more than a year, changed their relationship status on the social networking site to engaged a few weeks ago. Although they just as quickly changed it back, the couple, who use fake names on Facebook (Frances Rachel Leigh Cook for her, Isaiah David Berkowitz-Cusack for him), allude to the engagement in various posts, such as the screenshot above, which shows Cobain saying, "Getting to spend the rest of my life loving my best friend makes me the luckiest woman in the world."
Maybe Cobain is really getting ready to start nesting; the 19-year-old daughter of late Nirvana front man Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love recently bought a $1.825 million house near LA's Runyon Canyon, reportedly with funds inherited from her father's estate last year.
And while we're all for young, sweet love and our jaded selves wish nothing but the best for the beautiful couple, we can't help but note one creepy fact: Doesn't Silva look remarkably like Kurt Cobain?
- Dave Grohl is ugly:
- R109, the boyfriend/Kurt Cobain lookalike better be careful, Courtney may get the urge to kill him, too.
- Dave's grown into his looks - and I also think he got his teeth fixed.
- Yeah, he may've fixed his teeth.
- Anyone else see them in concert? Or just have any good Nirvana stories?
- I really dig Tori Amos's version of Teen Spirit. Apparently Kurt really liked this cover too.
- Nirvana turned the music industry up its ear at a time when the public was so tired of the indulgent and tiring of the 1980's "glam metal" thing. Shoot, even David Coverdale from Whitesnake was tired of that shit.
- R116, he hated it and made fun of it. It is TERRIBLE and it just goes to show what a melodramatic phony Tori Amos is. What a load of sappy, affected, insincere shit that is. Sinned O'Connor's cover of All Apologies is the exact opposite, sincere and heartfelt.
- There's a Melrose Place thread on the first page now. Generation X Dataloungers are truly in nirvana.
- Oh dear:
- Didn't Kurt say that Nirvana were basically just a Pixies tribute band, sounds like it.
- ALL bands have their distinctive sound, but Nirvana songs DO actually all sound the same, Cobain screaming, heavy repetitious riffs and samey chord progressions etc.
I never understood the praise this band got. I'm talking about the praise for their MUSIC, not what critics thought about Kurt Cobain as "a tortured artist". The music wasn't as great as the critics and their rabid fans thought it was.
Even the The Red Hot Chili Peppers write songs which don't all seem to sound the same, despite Anthony Kiedis being very limited in the singing ability department. Flea is an amazing bassist, very jazzy and you can recognize his bass playing when he guests on other people's albums.
I'm not even a big Chills fan, but even I know Flea's sound when I hear it. Flea's as distinctive as the late jazz bassist Jaco Pastorious and that's saying a lot!
Led Zeppelin, though a blues based rock band, managed to incorporate English folk music and R'n'B riffs into their music, they were a pretty diverse band musically, the same can not be said of Nirvana.
Nirvana fans need to step band from their blind hero worshiping of Cobain and really LISTEN to their songs.
- Kurt Cobain was extremely handsome.
- Nevermind was an indelible album, but I suspect Kurt would have turned out to be a one-or-two-trick pony as a songwriter. The only good songs on In Utero were the ones which sounded like Nevermind outtakes.
It always kind of baffled me that their success was regarded as some kind of triumph of "difficult" punk rock over mainstream music. When I first heard "Teen Spirit" it sounded like a surefire hit to me. Plus their music (like everything else grunge) read as much as "metal" to me as punk.
- [quote]The only good songs on In Utero were the ones which sounded like Nevermind outtakes.
Which ones in particular?
- Kurt had a very unique artistic voice/vision. He struck a major chord with many people.
- Here we are now -- entertain us.
- Courtney Love has slammed Foo Fighters singer Dave Grohl in the aftermath of her onstage rant at Brazil's SWU festival last weekend (November 13) – scroll down to the bottom of the page and click to watch.
The Hole singer stormed off the stage at the Sao Paulo bash after a crowd member held up a picture of her late husband Kurt Cobain during the gig, and only returned after her entourage convinced the crowd to chant, "The Foo Fighters are gay."
She then made a thinly veiled dig at the former Nirvana drummer, telling the audience: "I don't care what you listen to at home, but if a guy takes off money off my kid's table, fuck him."
In an interview recorded after the show, she continued to criticise Grohl for making money from the Nirvana name even though he "didn't write one fucking note" for the band.
"I wasn't in Nirvana," she said. "However, I do own Nirvana, with my daughter, and because of tax laws I have to give money to his sister, Kim Cobain, and [Kurt's mother] Wendy Cobain."
She then went on to add:
Dave makes $5 million a show, he doesn't need the money – so why the fuck does he have a Nirvana Inc. credit card and I don't? And last week, he bought an Aston Martin on it.
The singer also claimed that Kim Cobain was homeless and lived under the same bridge Cobain mentioned in the track 'Something In The Way' from their 1991 album 'Nevermind', and also downplayed Grohl's significance to Nirvana, adding: "He didn't even write the drum riff for 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. Kurt owns 100% of that publishing."
She concluded by saying: "Forget me, I make tons of money – my daughter and Kim Cobain, Wendy Cobain and [Kurt's half-sister] Brianne Cobain is what I care about."
- Courtney Love: "I own Nirvana":
- Sorry R131, I didn't see that you had posted the same thing before I posted. All Apologies, my friend.
- She doesn't think it counts for anything that Grohl, unlike Courtney, played on the fucking records?
- Lisa Derrick: Courtney Love Is Fine with Guitarist Slurring Gays from Stage
"While it may be big news that Courtney Love had a meltdown, swore and whipped her breasts out onstage, that's not so appalling. Or even really news. Rather, it's to be expected of Courtney.
But what is truly nasty about the incident is that after Courtney left the stage in a pique, she is shown in the video of the show conferring with her bandmates, after which her guitarist, Micko Larkin, returns to the stage and says: "Do you guys want to see Courtney back? All right, then repeat after me after three: The Foo Fighters are gay. One, two, three."
Obligingly, the crowd obeys. And Courtney returns to swear and sing again.
WTF?! Courtney Love's guitar player urged the crowd to use the word "gay" as an insult, as a slur. And Courtney is fine with it. And this from a woman who has claimed to be a "gay icon."
Courtney Love, you just cosigned homophobia. Hope you are proud of yourself."
- 'Cunt Knee' Love (goofy spelling) blew through all her money as well as a fair amount of her daughter's money and all of that like water.
For ages now, she has been trying to work a con in order to cover up her tracks.
Sometimes she makes it out that "unseen" forces worked against her to do massive identity theft with both her and her daughter. Other times, she blames the two surviving members of Nirvana.
- What are Courtney's religious views about gays? What does her religion think about homosexuality?
- Courtney once "dated" Roddy Bottom and he's as gay as a goose. They've been good friends for more than 20 years. She also chose Michael Stipe to be Frances Bean's godfather. But I don't know what Courtney's religion is or what it's views on gays are.
- I far prefer Sonic Youth. Nirvana were OK for what was essentially a pop band. Courtney Love was and is thick as fuck trailer trash with arrested development. Give me Kim Gordon over Courtney Love any day.
- Dave Grohl fan here. Have any of you ever seen pictures or video of Dave's dad? I've seen a few pictures of his mom(old and recent) and she doesn't look much like him. So I'm thinking that Dave looks a lot more like his dad.
Somebody please help me with this! Apparently, his dad was a Republican speech writer.
- Kurt was incredibly handsome.
- Here you are R140.
- Wow R142, thank you very much! I thought that was quite a longshot. Is that the only known picture or footage of him that you have seen? Also, what did you search to find that?
- I just googled "Dave Grohl's father" and it came up. His name is James Grohl.
"Your dad is a Republican speech writer, isn't he?"
"Yeah, he was a journalist and campaign manager and speech-writer. He worked for [Washington DC news agency] Scripps Howard. My dad's a very smart man but very conservative. My mum is a liberal schoolteacher. When I did the Kerry thing I thought he'd go nuts but he sent me a message saying, "I don't agree with you but I'm proud you're standing up for something you believe in."
- Kurt's grandfather Leland Cobain says that Courtney and quote a few others were involved in a conspiracy to kill Kurt AND to cover up his death:
- quote = quite
- you kneoyot/e tighjy
- I feel stupid
Here we are now
- I like Nirvana AND Pearl Jam, but in the overall musical landscape, they're both way, way down the list of what I personally like and consider great music.
- What are some of your favorites, R296?
- To be conversant in Pearl Jam requires a knowledge of Mother Love Bone and Temple of the Dog.
- Rare Kurt pictures
- Mother Love Bone's most famous song:
- Link to another Nirvana thread:
- What was with those 90s bands that always tuned their guitars a half step down?
- What was Billy Corgan thinking, hooking up with Courtney...
- English guitarist Bernard Butler has recently admitted that Suede's 'Animal Nitrate' was inspired by SLTS. For the 20th anniversary of Nevermind, the band also admitted to loving CAYA.
- I treated you like a lady
Now you're a substitute techer
- How was In Utero received by the media, and most importantly, by the public when it came out? I'd love to hear about that. Did it seem like a pretty big change from Nevermind? It was arguably the most genuinely anticipated album of the 90's.
- Courtney Love thread:
- r160, I think this review is a good indicator of how most people received "In Utero".
- Thanks, R162. That was a pretty well written review. And I appreciate that they did a song by song analysis, which most reviews fail to do. You can scroll to the side to see their other reviews for Nirvana's other albums.
- Kurt and Dave discussing In Utero:
- This is why Pearl Jam is awesome:
Ben Hardy was heartbroken when thieves hit his home over Thanksgiving. But what hurt most-- they stole an autographed Fender guitar given to his dying brother in the 1990s by the rock band Pearl Jam.
"It's not about the monetary value," Hardy told us on Dec. 8. "This guitar means more to my family than anything."
But just last week-- some good news. Police called to say they raided a Burlington house and found the guitar.
"That alone was sort of a miracle to me," Hardy said. "It was an enormous sense of relief."
There was one problem though.
"It had been partially dismantled and the individual who had it at the time had scrubbed the autographs off," Hardy said.
WCAX News covered the stolen guitar story and so did The Associated Press. The story went national. That's when members of Pearl Jam got wind of Hardy's loss.
"Yesterday, I got a knock on the door," Hardy said. "It was a FedEx guy and he hands me a package and I wasn't expecting a package and right away something was up."
The packing slip was from the State of Washington.
"My jaw dropped," Hardy said.
The package was from Pearl Jam.
"So, this is the new Fender Telecaster that Pearl Jam had sent out," Hardy said, showing off the guitar.
The band was so touched by his loss of not just the guitar, but his brother, they signed a new one with a note attached.
"We've been following the Telecaster's journey for the past few weeks," Hardy read. "We were thrilled to hear that the guitar was recovered, but we were saddened to see that it was far from its original condition. We know this will never replace Josh's original Telecaster and its sentimental value to your family, but we hope you can accept this enclosed gift in your brother's memory."
For Hardy, the note is just as valuable as the guitar.
Reporter Joe Carroll: What would your brother think of all this?
Ben Hardy: I think he would share all my sentiment, the power of positivity, I guess, and the capacity for goodness.
Hardy plans to play the new guitar as a symbol of the good people are capable of... he says that's what Josh would want.
When Hardy gets the original guitar back from police he plans to send it to his parents in New Hampshire.
- Very decent of PJ
- Very cool alternate version of Heart Shaped Box with a different tuning. Sounds very weird and creepy:
- Frances Bean Cobain: Courtney Love killed the family pets!
This needs it's own thread, if one of you would be so kind:
- Where Did You Sleep Last Night has been interpreted as being about a woman who killed or had her husband killed. Interesting song choice by Kurt...
- A great(and huge) collection of Kurt/Nirvana pictures, many of them candid:
- R170 That song is ages old. It really is. The Wiki on it is actually not half bad but I can only link to one thing.
Dolly Parton, of all people, is the one who interpreted it in the fashion you are describing. I am linking to her version, she picks up where Bill Monroe left off.
That song has gone from being called "Black Girl" to "In The Pines" to "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" and it was written in the 1800's or something.
- Anton Corbijn talks about Kurt Cobain and the Heart-Shaped Box video:
- I'm so tired I can't sleep
I'm a liar and a thief
Sit and drink Pennyroyal Tea
I'm anemic royalty
- and i forget just why i taste oh yeah i guess it makes me smile
- Their sound was a rip-off of The Pixies.
- the only mainstream pop culture reference to mulattos is in a lyric from Teen Spirit.
I am mulatto, and nooooobody I knew back then was listening to Nirvana, but I always carried a soft spot for them because of that line.
- Great, rare Kurt Cobain picture(I've seen nearly all of them):
- Complete nonsense, R177. Besides the loud soft dynamic, and both having used Steve Albini, Nirvana's music doesn't sound like the pixies at all. This particular remark always tells me that someone is aping something they've heard elsewhere, but don't know what the hell they are talking about.
- New Kurt Cobain paintings found:
- I was just thinking that American needs a new Nirvana to clear all this rap/r'&'b shit aside.
- OP is the sort of person who others at parties know to avoid because he starts conversations with remarks like, "The Beatles have always been so over-rated," and thinks he's being deep.
- Well speaking of Nirvana, did anyone else see Krist Novoselic on Rachel MAddow last night? He looked like a college professor.
- In the new documentary about Hole's Patty Schemel, there is some newly released home video footage of Kurt Cobain. He had a good sense of humor.
- This is an absolute must read if you are a Kurt Cobain fan or interested in his suspicious death. Numerous pieces of evidence(many comments from friends) showing the state of mind Kurt was in when he died.....as you might've guessed, he wasn't even remotely suicidal:
- I wish I could find the link, I think it was NME that demonstrated how Heart Shaped Box is basically Blondie's Call Me, just at a slower tempo
- That's a very interesting observation from them, I'll have to give it a listen.
- Courtney Love asked if she killed Kurt Cobain, not a very convincing response:
- Frances tweeted Courtney at Christmas:
- There will never be another Kurt Cobain. Period. Nirvana's music is still alive and well forever. The grunge movement changed the music industry forever. Yes the rock and roll of the 21st century really sucks now.
- I saw Nirvana at the College of William and Mary here in Williamsburg. In hindsight it was apparent Kurt was out of his mind high (on heroin?.) He did not say one word the entire concert. Kris(t)? did all the intros and patter. Kurt stood zombie-like in one spot. Helluva show however. I am glad I had a chance to see them live in concert.
- Jeremy has spoken.
- We should speak more of Pearl Jam