David Birney on Meredith Baxter''s Abuse Claims ''appalling abuse of the truth and a fairy tale.''

In a statement to PEOPLE on Friday, the actor, 71, calls her claims "an appalling abuse of the truth" and derided her new memoir, Untied, as "a kind of fairy tale." After their divorce 20 years ago, he says, Baxter "conducted a relentless and brutal assault" for eight years against their shared custody of their three children in what he called an attempt "to destroy that arrangement and replace it with herself as sole custodian." "During that time she arrived in court repeatedly with various lawyers and several therapists, 'recovered memories,' accusations of abuse %E2%80%93 a common charge in custody disputes %E2%80%93 and tales of our life together that bore little resemblance to truth %E2%80%93 a mean spirited process that battered us all, especially the children," he says. "The court denied her suit on every occasion." The pair continued to have shared custody until their children went to college, he says, adding, "This current recycled version of our family story is no more credible now than it was then." Birney says he found it "immensely sad and truly absurd" that in the memoir Baxter "is unable to reclaim a single instance of joy or pleasure in all that time, not one occasion of love or delight or accomplishment in our entire life together as we built a family. Not one. "Nothing from our first meeting to divorce. Nothing, in sixteen years. Really?" he continues. "This blanket omission, this unrelieved denial of even a single instance of joy or pleasure in the creation of a family, the substance and amazing joy of raising children together, of simply being together with them during that time, is incomprehensible. And sad." He concludes by saying, "Meredith%E2%80%99s own account of these years is its own rebuke to her credibility. " In the memoir, Baxter, 63, who came out as a lesbian in 2009, claims that Birney struck her on more than one occasion. "It was so sudden and unexpected, I couldn't tell you which hand hit me, or even how hard," she writes. "I do recall thinking, 'I'd better not get up because he's going to hit me again.' "

• Yes, but he was so good-looking at the time.

• You know what is sad? Getting to the ages of these people and having this dirty laundry paraded in public. One would think that a life well lived would yield a sense of dignity and at the VERY least PRIVACY for these types of things. The fact that the two of them are at odds with each other in such a public way (over a relationship that ended many years ago) is just, well, sad and does not reflect well on EITHER of them as evolved, mature adults who are at peace with themselves. And, hey, they are both sort of "has been" actors who had TV shows from decades ago. They are not really "relevant" except, as I suspect they both know, for these recent public barbs at each other. Meredith''s coming out and book are supposed to be, what? Some cathartic "how to" book? She STILL doesn''t seem comfortable with herself.

• & it all started so well...

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWtyc0-yvk

• Sorry, but she sounds like a miserable cunt. If you have an issue with your ex, then deal with it in the privacy of your own lives. Just because you were once a D list actor who can''t get a gig anymore doesn''t justify going on talk shows and airing your dirty laundry.

• No mention of his (closeted gay) private life? I''m disappointed.

  His secret gay lover in NYC in the late 80s

• Alec Baldwin is supporting David Birney 100%. He too had to deal with a bat-shit crazy ex-wife who used the children and turned them against him.

• We''re shocked. Just shocked.

  Iris and Laura Donnelly

• OMG she is Betty Broderick

• What a shame. If Alec Baldwin is siding with him, that only serves to cast doubt on Birney. Was Baldwin there? How could he pretend to know what went on in their marriage if he wasn''t around to see it?\ \ This is another he said/she said, where the truth is usually somewhere between the two parties'' versions. It''s the stuff that buys great cars for family lawyers.

• "He too had to deal with a bat-shit crazy ex-wife who used the children and turned them against him."%0D\ %0D\ There''s legitimate evidence that Alec Baldwin is a verbal abuser. Not to mention he was a bad alcoholic for a number of years.%0D\ %0D\ Unless you''re going to tell me Kim made him call his daughter a pig. You just know he was thinking of cunt.%0D\ %0D

• r3''s link confuses me. Why is a white man driving a cab?

• It was a failed attempt at equivalency R9.%0D\ %0D\ We know nothing about Birney''s anger issues. We know plenty about Alec''s.

• I'm a researcher who has spent many years in psych. research and other fields where careful interviewing and observation is required. I know how to observe as well as anyone. I've worked closely with subjects dealing with addiction, PTSD, depression, and other serious issues. I watched her objectively as she recounted her tale of being abused. I had to work at it because I found I had a positive bias towards her. I didn't believe her. Her language in describing her experiences was peculiar and parsed. She has a well-maintained gloss or shell that presents well, but her "story" - with the themes she is pitching with her book and using to recreate her image as a proud lesbian who has come through fire and is finally AOK - is clearly constructed, to me at least. Actors are challenging when it comes to psychological problems, both for straightening things out for themselves and for accepting and working through treatment. They are too adept at objectifying themselves, assuming roles, adopting attitudes of convenience or need, and creating drama. Writers have similar challenges. I'd throw buouys with bells around her to warn people away and advise everyone to keep their distance. And I'd shelve her book in the library under "Fiction."

• I don''t know if I would go as far as R13 (but then I''m not a professional) - but MB has always come across as being stilted, "on stage" and very aware of how she''s trying to present herself. She does not seem to be either genuine or authentic, and I have never detected any warmth in her personality. I''m not saying she is making evrything up, but there are always 2 sides to every story. And I am not believing much of hers.%0D\ %0D

• She obviously deserved it, if true.

• She''s nuts and as for her new found lesbianism, well, that won''t last either and the pussy whipped gf will be left high and dry with Meredith accusing her of abuse as well! She is just fuckin nuts and always has been.

• Is anyone else tired of celebrities coming out and then shortly thereafter saying that they were abused? It sends a horrible message.

• Her daughter on Oprah seemed pretty level headed and believable when she recalled saying to her mother: is this enough now?%0D\ %0D\ (after DB was a dick to MBB after Thanksgiving)%0D\ %0D

• My sister started seeing shrinks years ago and decided our parents were abusive, expecially our Mom. Since I was there I know she is taking isolated incidents and blowing them way, way out of proportion. It just suits her ego to tell her husband and the other people she''s close to about the terrible abuse she endured and overcame. What Birney is saying rings true to me. Where our the happy memories?

• Roseanne Barr is also backpedaling on recovered memory claims of sexual abuse from her father. The concept has an unusual allure. She was able to get Tom Arnold to uncover forgotten memories of sexual abuse using the same technique. Psychiatry went haywire in the 1990''s with charges of child molestation that devastated families and communities. Several people have come forward denouncing their therapists in retrospect. In a way it was as damaging as the days when the charge was disbelieved out of hand.

• I tend not to believe MB, especially after hearing Birney''s side of things especially a few of the details of the prolonged court battled, especially the involvement of multiple therapists who promoted the issue of recovered memories. Recovered memories are often facilitated by leading questions and hints by therapists with a very biased thearies who want to confirm their beliefs. Many operate under the assumption that there are repressed memories without looking to other causes of their patients'' distress. Rosanne was one of those who was ill served by these therapists.%0D\ %0D\ Having said all of this, we don''t know if Birney also drank. A couple who drinks together is more likely to engage in mutual violence. Maybe MB drank to the point of blackout and slammed into things or fell in a drunken stupor and came to with bruises and believed Birney had caused them. Who knows?

• *theories

• I don''t know if her claims are true or not, but using them to sell a book 20 years after the fact is somewhat underhanded. If the man was abusive, get out, divorce him, file charges, whatever...but don''t dredge it up again 20 years later to sell a book.

• This broad is really kind of looney

• r23, you got THAT right!

  Ghost of John Phillips

• I think R13 has it right; that the book needed some drama and Birney -- whatever he did -- provided it. Whatever he did, talk of his abuse came up in the divorce proceedings (and should be judged in light of that), three of the five kids corroborated it, and it makes for juicy copy. It also helps her explain why she became a lesbian later rather than sooner, whatever the true reason. I still hold that the real reason was that her mother would disapprove, and like many in our community, she couldn''t handle coming out until her mother was dead. That in itself would make for a compelling story, but one I don''t think she can tell.

• [qupte]the real reason was that her mother would disapprove\ \ This is one of the dumbest things I''ve ever read! "Waa, my mommy won''t let me be a lesbian even though I''m a grown ass woman." \ \ Phuleeze. \ \ Honestly, what would some of you do without your drama and perceived torture.

• So depressing.\ \ It''s far more sympathetic to say that "my husband was an abusive tyrant who harmed myself and the children, and drove me to divorce him", then to say, "I was living a lie as a closet case and using my husband to conceal my hidden truth".\ \ Recovered memory is bullshit. My siblings and I were abused by our parents; I remember everything, and always have. How on Earth do you "forget" your whole life. i would think that if your whole life was a black-out, you''d be a tiny bit concerned about that. Part of the trauma of abuse is that you can''t forget...it haunts you in your dreams, it follows you in songs, smells, and sounds that remind you of horrible events. I don''t believe it, and I think that anyone who claims it is trying to pull something.

• r28.. try therapy to help you reframe those memories

• R29- thanks. I do go to a therapist, and I find therapy very helpful. EMDR has been extremely helpful as well.

• I am sure I will get slammed for this, but it makes me wonder if her portrayal of Betty Broderick was not too far from her own personality?

• Why are we blaming the victim of abuse here?

• Maybe David Birney is a victim of abuse too.

• "Why are we blaming the victim of abuse here?"%0D\ %0D\ We''re not. We''re not saying she wasn''t abused. %0D\ %0D

• R32- she''s not a victim, she''s a liar. He''s the victim of slander.

• On David Birney''s OFFICIAL website he shares ''his side'' of the story in an open letter to his fans. He also gives his opinion of the book (which he has read).\ \ Wonder if Meredith sent a signed copy?

  http://www.davidbirney.com/

• Sorry R27 -- I have seen that sort of thing many times and she herself admitted to fearing her mother''s opinion of her choices.

• From David Birney's Open Letter... The list of villains in her tale is long-- all of whom ignore her, belittle her, abuse her-- verbally, emotionally, physically, morally, or financially. This list includes: her mother, her father, her step father-- who was also her agent-- all sadly no longer alive and unable to speak for themselves; her husbands, the parents of one of the husbands, various lawyers, the family court which found her tales unconvincing, and which categorically rejected her years%E2%80%99 long assault on the joint custody arrangement, as well as business partners and managers%E2%80%94the list is comprehensive and exhausting. Each of the people here had relationships with her of some substance and trust, relationships that were, over a period of time, destroyed. Each of the people, she claims, misused and abused her, time and again; and each relationship ends in a pattern of anger, conflict and betrayal. One can%E2%80%99t help but finally ask, what sad tale is actually being told here as she moves through this emotional carnage? Who is actually being abused? As I have said before, Meredith%E2%80%99s account of these years is its own rebuke to her credibility. -David Birney

• This story makes me so sad. I grew up watching these people and it reminds me of the time when Rock Hudson was revealed to be not only gay but dying fron AIDS.That''s when I lost my innocence about what is real and what is manufactured in Hollywood.%0D\ %0D\ That being said,Baxter''s mother was Whitney Blake,who played the mom on the tv series HAZEL.I''m sure she learned a thing or two about keeping up appearances and providing a glossy sheen for the public. And I personally find that people who are in the closet for too long exibit sociopathic tendencies. It appears to be true in this case...

• I thought was odd that the story of her lesbianism changed details when she told it to Joy Behar. On Oprah she said her first was only recently but on Joy Behar she said she had a female affair in 1993.%0D\ %0D\ %0D\ She seems mixed up.%0D\ %0D\ %0D

• r19, I had the same experience. My sister went to a shrink after her divorce. It''s amazing how two children could grow up in the same house and have totally different experiences.\ \ Understand my mother was no angel - but as I get older I clearer get where my mother was coming from and have a growing respect for her choices and hard work. I can''t imagine having the deal with the crap my mother dealt with. \ \ Any conversation about our childhood is like talking to stranger. My favorite is when we disagree and she tells me her shrink agrees with her. Ugh.

• Is she saying she became a lesbian because men are so evil?%0D\ %0D

• Were the children who backed up her claims in court from her first marriage? Which child was on the Oprah show?

• In families they tend to protect the abuser, and alienate/blame the victim. Happens all the time.

• Both children from her first marriage and one of three by Birney backed up her claims of abuse.

• If Meredith had her first affair in 1993, it was around the same time she played a lesbian mom in one of her TV movies.

• She had to do her research for the part

• [quote]Any conversation about our childhood is like talking to stranger. My favorite is when we disagree and she tells me her shrink agrees with her. Ugh.\ \ My sister says that too!

• r48, maybe we have the same sister.

  r41

• From Birney''s letter:\ \ [quote]What seems immensely sad and truly absurd about this %E2%80%9Cmemoir,%E2%80%9D especially in its recounting of the history of our 16 year marriage and the birth of our three extraordinary children, is that the she is unable to reclaim a single instance of joy or pleasure in all that time, not one occasion of love or delight or accomplishment in our entire life together as we built a family. Not one. Nothing from our first meeting to divorce. Nothing, in sixteen years.\ \ That''s kind of weak, considering what she said.

• Some women should be struck regularly, like gongs.

  Dakota Fanning

• What do you mean R50?

• How typical of this board - hating and trashing the lesbian. You queens are pathetic.

• What makes you think it''s the "queens" trashing MB r53? And don''t you pop up in every thread blaming hateful queens for opinions you don''t agree with?

• Frankly I think Meredith is a convenient lesbian. Her book reeks of MacKenzie Phillips desperation.%0D\ %0D\ David Birney is a fine man. I have met him. He dealt with a lot from that woman. Her whining over being upstaged - first by Kristy McNichol and then Michael J. Fox. She was not happy in either series - Family or Family Ties - and her post Family Ties interviews, where she claimed not to remember the name of her character (?) scream of her being a loon. %0D\ %0D\ I believe she de-flowered a teenaged David Cassidy. Maybe that''s where it all went wrong for her.

• Does Birney address the fact that some of his kids confirm Meredith''s story of the abuse?

• Her book makes her sound like a complete lunatic. I feel sorry for her kids.

• Meredith is right that Michael J. Fox did end up upstaging her on the show. When the show began she was considered the most important character (and received top-billing in the credits), but over time the character of Alex came to dominate the show and become the main character.

• So, from the ladies of DL, MB is supposed to shut up and keep her private life private, but all the closet queens are supposed to shout out their gayness from every roof top because it suit you.\ \ I''m not surprised many of you don''t believe her even though three of her children backed up the stories of abuse.

• %E2%80%98Family Ties%E2%80%99 mom %E2%80%98appalled%E2%80%99 by focus on alleged abuse 2011/03/04 14:42:00 The Canadian Press Family Ties star Meredith Baxter says she's "appalled" that media coverage of her new memoir has focused so heavily on the book's allegations that she suffered domestic abuse during her marriage to actor David Birney. "It's one thing to write about it. It's another thing to be saying it to someone and then to see it blasted (in) some headline knowing that David's going to have to ... see that," Baxter said Friday during a round of interviews in Toronto, the latest stop in a week-long interview blitz that has included Oprah and The Today Show. "I feel bad for him. Who wants that kind of stuff?" The book, called Untied, chronicles Baxter's difficult childhood, her rise to stardom on Family and Family Ties, and her three failed marriages, which produced five children. It also delves into her battles with alcoholism and cancer, and her decision in December 2009 to come out as a lesbian. Despite that wealth of material, much of the attention surrounding Untied %E2%80%94 which hit store shelves this week %E2%80%94 has focused on the abuse that Baxter alleges to have occurred during her 15-year marriage to Birney. The pair became media darlings after playing the leads on the '70s TV show Bridget Loves Bernie. They had three children and divorced in 1989. Baxter's book describes the legal proceedings surrounding the split as protracted and acrimonious. In Untied, Baxter, 63, alleges that Birney hit her more than once. "It was so sudden and unexpected, I couldn't tell you which hand hit me, or even how hard," she writes. "I do recall thinking, 'I'd better not get up because he's going to hit me again.'" Birney, 71, has denied the allegations. In an email to The Canadian Press this week, entertainment public relations firm Rogers and Cowan said Birney is "letting the court records %E2%80%94 which repeatedly dismissed Ms. Baxter's allegations as groundless %E2%80%94 speak for themselves." In recent days, Baxter has received some high-profile support while promoting her book. On Oprah, she was taken by surprise when Michael Gross, who played her husband on Family Ties, joined her onstage. In Untied, Baxter says Gross was one of the first people she spoke to about her problems with Birney. Canadian Michael J. Fox, who shot to superstardom as her ultra-conservative son Alex P. Keaton on Ties, also made a taped appearance on Oprah. On Friday, Baxter said the abuse headlines "distort" the content of her memoir. "That wasn't what the book is about," she said. "My goal was to talk about what my thinking was. ... That was part of my life. ... I think there's a real lesson to learn for people who have been in situations where they perceive themselves as a victim ... abuse is going on, and we stay, because we don't know we can leave." She acknowledges that the book's release may have been difficult for Birney, who has appeared in numerous TV series, including Murder She Wrote and St. Elsewhere. She said she told one of her kids to pass on the message that he should just "be quiet" about the allegations in the book. "That wasn't the goal, to give him a tough week," she said. "I don't think anyone is going to deal with something like that very well. I think it's a lot of attention, and he doesn't have a platform to defend himself. Frankly, it's probably better for him not to defend himself because then it would just throw fire on my position." Baxter says she hopes readers will realize that they "don't have to be a victim." "I defined myself by my victimhood. ... It's not a terrible thing to accept responsibility because then you can go change something. I want people to know they can do that," she says. "(I want people to know) that if you're in a domestic abuse situation, you don't have to stay there ... that if you're gay or lesbian and you're hiding ... I'm not going to tell people to come out, because that's a very individual thing, but to tell people that it might be better than you think."

  http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/article/948856--family-ties-mom-appalled-by-focus-on-alleged-abuse

• Continued:\ \ After all the tumult described in Untied, Baxter says she''s finally doing "great."\ \ "I''m in my post-floundering years," she says.\ \ "I''m happier than I''ve ever been. Not having any secrets ... there''s no illusions you can have about me. ... I''ve learned stuff, it took me an awful long time to learn it, longer than the average bear. But you know, better late than never."

• R28, I agree with you that 'recovered memory' is BS, but people can experience memory loss in the wake of traumatic events. Those memories are generally not recoverable by any means because they were never encoded into memory at the time of the trauma.%0D %0D My partner is a psychologist who assesses a lot of troubled people including convicted criminals in prison as well as people claiming that they were sexually and/or physically abused 20, 30, or 40 years ago by family members. These people are now seeking criminal charges against their alleged abusers, and my partner is often retained by the defence to offer his expert opinion on the way memory works.%0D %0D Contrary to popular notions of how memory works, memories are not like videotapes or DVDs-- research indicates that the brain reconstitutes and reconstructs memories at the time of their retrieval. Depending upon the circumstances one's brain can create inaccurate or even confabulated memories.%0D %0D In a criminal context if someone claims that he or she was abused and now wants charges pressed against the alleged perpetrator, it's helpful to have independent verification. If someone claims that he or she was abused and these memories of abuse only emerged following therapeutic intervention, especially hypnosis, caution is indicated. In the US the phenomenon of 'recovered memory' has more or less seen its day and has lost a great deal of credibility, but unfortunately in the UK it seems to be alive and well. With no statute of limitations, people are free to pursue charges of felony abuse many decades after the alleged events took place.

• r58, Alex was MUCH more entertaining than she was.

• Oh, for God''s sake! She makes these abuse claims to sell her book and then blames the media for focusing on them? And if someone physically abused you, would you really give two shits if they "had a bad week"? %0D\ %0D\ She''s backpedaling. She knows she exagerrated and/or lied, and now she''s freaking out.

• "...but over time the character of Alex came to dominate the show and become the main character."%0D\ %0D\ r58, the producers would have been ignoring a gold mine if, once they realized Fox''s considerable talent, they did not maximize it. It was a case of perfect casting.

• What did she expect- that people would just ignore the allegations of alleged abuse? She can''t be shocked that it has been "blown out of proportion", after she herself made these claims.

• The one where she plays the surburban mom who becomes a heroin addict rocks it! And I love the opening of "Bridget Loves Birney" and don''t forget she''s in "Ben" and "Family" with Matthew Broderick''s dad and Sada Thompson and my fave Kristy McNichol. She''s so good in Sam Fuller''s "White Dog".

• Does anyone know the specific allegations that she was making in court against David Birney that were being repeatedly dismissed?

• [quote]Baxter told Matt Lauer "I am a lesbian and it was a later-in-life recognition.Some people would say, well, you''re living a lie and, you know, the truth is not at all. This has only been for the past seven years."\ \ She went on, "I''ve always lived a very private life. To come out and disclose stuff is very antithetical to who I am."

• [quote]She explained that she deliberately chose to be with men with whom she clashed, so that she could blame them for the end of the relationship. %E2%80%9CIt never occurred to me to think, oh, [the problem is] me,%E2%80%9D she said. \ \ Sounds about right.

• I don''t know if she is telling the truth, but even as a kid there was something about him that I didn''t like. I watched their show.

  Just Sayin

• Had a lunch time quickie with him in a midtown hotel. Thick meaty, very hairy ass, big ''ol bottom.

  Robyn Bird Show regular

• R13 here - R59 and others decry what they see as a tendency of people on the DL to attack women who are victims of abuse and deny that they are abused. The evidence of the children saying that abuse occurred is cited as proof that people who question MB are at best prejudiced. Look at what the children say. Her son by her previous marriage was talking about Birney's behavior towards him, not his mother, from what I gather, and it sounds like classic step-parent/step-child dynamics - "you're not responsible enough," "constant belittling," and so on. Birney's daughter talks about her father being "volatile" but that he was physically violent, although she throws in "not that he wasn't capable of it," which is ambiguous. No one is defending Birney. I'm not sure anyone gives a hoot about him or them or their marriage or divorce. The issue is that a celebrity - ANOTHER celebrity - has published a book claiming to have been physically abused by her celebrity husband, and out of the mess of her life she seems to have used the abuse card in a calculated way to help settle old scores and to sell books. I deplore abuse. But I deplore false accusations by unhealthy people for gain, too. The high moral ground here doesn't automatically go to the woman stuffing money into her purse while smiling at Oprah and Michael Gross.

• Meredith Baxter is using abuse claims as a marketing tool to garner book sales. She is an insult to real abuse victims.

• But what if she is also trying to explain what led her on her journey to realizing her sexuality?

• She wrote the book just to make money.

• R73, R58 here. I am defending Birney. The R60 post where she is ''shocked'' the press is focusing on the abuse tells everything I need to know about Meredith Baxter. The fact that her two children from another marriage defend her and ONE of his three kids with her, defend her mean nothing. They''re probably financially dependent on one or the other parent. %0D\ %0D\ I don''t think Oprah or the Today show would have booked her even if the interview about the book just focused on her being a late in life lezzie. The juice of the abuse is the thing.

• "late-in-life "lezzies" are the ultimate bullshitters! I''ve seen their type before and many of them are clearly mentally ill. The gf must have her hands full but if she''s dumb enough to date Baxter''s type that''s her problem.

• In addition to R78''s astute observations on the phenomenon of ''late-in-life lesbians'' I should like to add that I have a number of actor friends, and from what I have observed of them and their associates I suspect that some people (not all, but some) who are attracted to this particular field of endeavor have an inchoate sense of self. Chronic uncertainties and anxieties about one''s sexual identity would seem consistent with that picture as well as full-blown personality disorders.

• Liar, liar, pants on fire, hangin'' on a telegraph wire.

  Ike Turner

• [quote]Why is a white man driving a cab?%0D\ %0D\ Because it was 1972. Also the cab meter started at 60 cents with 10-cent increment charges. %0D\ %0D\ ...and she had one of those bubble umbrellas.%0D\ %0D\ The real question to ask: how could an inner city public school teacher afford to be taking cabs to work?

• Next?

• What? The birth of her children wasn''t a joy? She must have enjoyed the sex, they had three children and were married 16 years. The way she comes across its a wonder he could tolerate her that long.

• r82 - stop trying to make "next" happen.%0D\ %0D\ It ain''t.

  And that goes for all the other threads

• I agree with most of your points R73. But this is the DL you''re talking about. There''s always been an anti woman contingent here. %0D\ %0D\ Apparently, some find Birney cute (he always looked trollish to me, not the least bit attractive) so that takes top priority over anything else.%0D\ %0D\ %0D\ %0D

• Don''t forget "And it''s killing us" R85.

• Alec''s angry outburst directed at his daughter where he called her a pig is hardly abuse. She probably deserved it. My God, you should have heard what my Mother called me when I deserved it...it was not then and not now abuse. This whole abuse thing has gotten completely overblown. Unless you have had someone hit you hard...on purpose or humiliated you so badly that there is actual damage to your soul...it isn''t abuse. These women screeching abuse this and violated that are harpies making the meaning of the words irrelevant. Its like yelling racism at every opportunity...it eventually loses its meaning.

• oh fuck off r85...honest to god.

• [quote]The real question to ask: how could an inner city public school teacher afford to be taking cabs to work?\ \ Bridget came from a rich family. I remember an episode in which she was showing her family the aquamarine (tiny) ring Bernie had bought her. When her mother took a look you could she that she had an aquamarine ring with a big, honking stone in it.

• ummmmmm sweetheart, aquamarines are cheap, even big ones.

• R89 is right. They played up the disparity in wealth almost as much as they did the different religions. \ \ When he dropped her off at home that first time he was shocked that she lived in a brownstone and commented that it must be worth about $300,000!

• The defense of David Birney is an OFFENSE.\ \ To protect the abuser (which many always do) and make the victim out to be a crazy person, is classic.\ \ That is why rape victims or women who have been assaulted don''t go to the police. No one believes them, and always sides with the man.

• "She probably deserved it."%0D\ %0D\ Well, since Alec is the only one who went public with his side of it, the scenerio is obviously one sided. Kim has never told the public about what went on in their marriage. %0D\ %0D\ And it is abuse. She is an underage child. There''s no reason to get that derogatory and nasty to the child over a situation between the parents. %0D\ %0D\ If she''s a nut, well he picked her. What does that say about him? %0D\ %0D\ He apologized for a reason. Because he was wrong.

• Typical DL.

• Interesting that she''s encouraging him NOT to talk about it .........considering she WROTE ABOUT IT IN A BOOK ! Guess she''s looking to have the last word.

• I agree r95. Totally bizarre comment.

• In Meredeth''s introduction, Oprah called "Bridget Loves Birney" a hit show. It wasn''t. It lasted only one season. Oprah was wrong.

• Its ratings were pretty good R97, enough to call it a hit. Controversy led to its early cancellation, not poor ratings performance.

• Bridget Loves Birney was a hit show. At the end of the 1973 season it finished 5th, above other shows like Mary Tyler Moore (7) and Here''s Lucy (15).\ \ The reason it was cancelled was the drop off of the shows ratings after All In The Family. CBS research showed that too many people switched off All In The Family, before tuning back into MTM.\ \ However others say Jewish groups pressured the network in canning the show.

• I would take Meredith''s side over David. He''s just trying to cover his ass.

• Is r87 for real?\ \ I thought Archie Bunker was just a 1970s TV character.

  welcome to the 21st century

• I remember when Marlee Matlin reported that William Hurt had abused her during their relationship and the press went to him demanding an explanation. He said, yes, it happened and I am sorry, and they just stood there for a minute because the expected denial (and fuel for their investigations) were summarily aborted by his statement, and then they left, never mentioning his abuse again.

• Didn''t Hurt do this with another woman as well? I seem to remember Joan Rivers going after him and having the dumped, knocked-up gf on her talk show.

• Possibly, R103, but what I noticed was how well just apologizing worked for him -- the press was denied a handle to the story and he could go his merry way.

• 92- the Michigan "womyn''s" music festival is THAT way, dearie. There are "penised persons here- you''d better run away!\ \ It''s also funny how some posters are trying to conflate Birney with Baldwin and Hurt.\ \ Baxter''s trying to sell books and get her name back in lights. Fame whore. And a big liar.

• Wait. So this woman dredges up allegations from her divorce 20 years ago to help sell a book, goes on Oprah and spends the entire show talking in detail about the alleged abuse -- and now says it''s not fair the media is focusing on the alleged abuse?\ \ She''s a mind fuck.\ \ We don''t know what happened between her and David Birney. Maybe he''s a horrible abuser. Maybe he''s not.\ \ But it''s not taking his side to say: She''s a nasty piece of work herself.

• Why all the Meredith hate? Her journey through an abusive relationship to coming out later in life is not that atypical. Men abusing women is not uncommon. Women with low self-esteem are not atypical. She doesn''t need the money. She is setting the record straight for herself.

• She seems like a real bitch. %0D\ %0D\ Over the years I''ve watched my sister turn her daughters against their father. They would have confirmed any allegation due to fear of making her angry. I never cared for the guy but he was not guilty of sexually abusing toddlers or many of other heinous accusations made by my crazy sis in order to get her way. She wanted total control of the kids and she got it.

• R107? ENOUGH.

• Alcoholism is a primary illness, Meredith. \ \ It sounds like Steps Eight and Nine have a major growth opportunities in store for you.

• Here''s the "late-in-life {phony} "lesbians" theme song. \ \ *sob* "Oh the journey". "The journey". *sob*

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQWND9jKDA

  LOL

• Does any one know if Birney was also a drinker. That would explain a greate deal. Like I said in an earlier post, couples who drink together are more likely to engage in mutual violence.

• "The defense of David Birney is an OFFENSE."%0D\ %0D\ It is NOT "defending David Birney" to ask some very reasonable questions, such as why an abused woman would tell her story and then say, "I feel bad for him," about her abuser having to see the story in the press? Why would she care that he''s "having a bad week"? Why would she say he "doesn''t deserve this"? %0D\ %0D\ If Birney physically abused Baxter, I would say he deserves all this and more. But Meredith does not seem to feel that way. Why?

• Nowhere in Birney''s statement did I read "I did not ever hit Meredith." Just a bunch of "it was not proved in court." Telling difference?

• What R4 said.\ \ Plus, she looks incredibly shriveled and ancient for her age. So does her gal-pal.

  M. Rooney

• [quote]It is NOT "defending David Birney" to ask some very reasonable questions, such as why an abused woman would tell her story and then say, "I feel bad for him," about her abuser having to see the story in the press? Why would she care that he's "having a bad week"? Why would she say he "doesn't deserve this"?%0D %0D I agree that it sounds peculiar, and I don't mean to defend Meredith Baxter here, but people who have been in abusive relationships sometimes say and do irrational things even after the abuse has ended.%0D %0D Also it's not uncommon for people to experience strong feelings of attachment towards their abusers. Whether you believe their tales of incestuous liaisons or not, Mackenzie Phillips has said that she still loves her father despite everything she's disclosed about him, and the author Kathryn Harrison admitted on an Oprah episode that she still loves her father. Indeed, she has never revealed his identity publicly, claiming that she wished to expose herself in her memoir [italic]The Kiss[/italic] and not her father.

• If I remember correctly, William Hurt and Mary Beth Hurt''s divorce was based on cruelty charges.

• Bump.

• William Hurt didn''t take responsibility for the abuse. What he said was we BOTH made mistakes, meaning him and Marlee were to blame for a volatile relationship.\ \ Marlee would later say that Hurt''s statement was a cop-out, and it blames the victim equally as the abuser.

• Bridget Loves Birney was pretty controversial back then. I was a kid but I remember the media making it a huge deal. Catholic vs. Jewish? It was only a "third less controversial" than a racially mixed couple. The show was not as out there as All in the Family but it DID try to deal with some "touchy" issues (of the time.) Now it all seems so innocent and silly. The irony is that the two actors from the show appear to be old shrieking harpies now who have a very public ax to grind with each other!

• Her fantasy Hollywood abuse stories are an insult to women who have suffered real abuse.

• From the For Whatever it''s Worth Dept.: Back around 80 or 81, when MB-B and DB were still married, David Birney came to my college as a visiting professor for a semester. He had affairs with at least two female students and hit on many others. A real creep.

• Regardless of that happened - it''s disingenuous to write a book with such sensational claims and then pretend to be surprised that media attention is focused on them. Not to mention, pretending to feel sorry for someone whose reputation you have savaged comes off as insincere at best and a lie at worst. %0D\ %0D\ Birney claims that she constantly blamed everyone else for her problems and issues, and I don''t perceive anything different in either her book or her interviews. Meredith is and always has been a hot mess, and lesbianism is just the latest "solution" to her troubles.

• Wow Thanks R111 that song....it''s hilarious.

• What''s the title of the one where she plays the heroin addict? I can''t find it on her imdb page?? I thought she was good in that.

  clueless Val in the Valley

• She''s a run of the mill nutjob trashing others'' lives and peace of mind as she tries to "find" herself. Everyone knows one of these people.

• [quote]Meredith is and always has been a hot mess, and lesbianism is just the latest "solution" to her troubles.\ \ Exactly. She''s spent her life trying to deal with her mental issues by focusing on something outside of herself (men, alcohol, lesbianism). She needs to get some therapy from a qualified psychologist and not the tell-her-what-feels-good fools she''s seen to date.\ \ Wonder what her kids think of this? It must be pretty disturbing to have your parents'' relationship published like that. Why does she keep putting them through stuff like this? What a selfish bitch.

• "Why does she keep putting them through stuff like this?"%0D\ %0D\ A very good question. Why does she feel that her "journey" (ugh) needs to come at the expense of her children? It''s all about her, and always has been. %0D\ %0D\ Her new partner better fire up the U-Haul before everything she owns gets smashed in a fight.

• The movie where Meredith plays the heroin addict is ''Darkness Before Dawn''. She plays the daughter struggling with her addiction, while pregnant.

• In a few more years we''ll be hearing from Ms. Baxter about how her current partner. I hope her current partner is comfortable with having their home lives put through the crazy lady filter and then regurgitated with stunning inaccuracy. If not, she should get out now.

• She also played a falling down drunk in several episodes of "Cold Case''

• R122= Baxter. Hi mess!

• R122 = student of school deep in the woods that produces mountain men and Indian-American comedians.\ \ MB was the "Artist-in-Residence" while her alum hubby was teaching? Oui?

• More Discussion!

• I thought this video was interesting in light of the direction this thread has taken:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoGAoKfpGt0

• [quote]A very good question. Why does she feel that her "journey" (ugh) needs to come at the expense of her children? It''s all about her, and always has been. \ \ How old are you? Does your Mommy still wipe your ass? Her children are grown adults in their thirties and forties who chose to stand by their Mother and her "fantasy Hollywood abuse stories".

• All of MB Pigging out scenes in ''Kate''s Secret'' all in one clip!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRrPJxN9CuQ&feature=related

• Bump.

• Here''s the AP report

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLb1FPOLOmY

• A woman, a dog, and a walnut tree, The more you beat ''em, the better they be.

  D. Birney

• R133: Yes, MB-B was "artist in residence" at Dartmouth while he was visiting professor, but she was NOT there the whole semester, as she was back and forth between CA. She was mostly there just for the rehearsals and run of "The Constant Wife".\ \ As soon as she left, his eyes started wandering...

  R122

• She''s on The Talk right now, dismissing Birney''s accusations. She''s not even dignifying them with a response.%0D\ %0D\ And she knows he read the book.

  Work it, sister!

• New soap thread alert! New soap thread alert!%C2%A0\ \ The soap cunts are trying to sneak in more and more SOAP THREADS despite knowing they are not allowed.%C2%A0\ \ The "Ron Moss" thread, the "Tony Geary on Oprah" thread, the " TREVOR ST. John heading to California for pilot season" thread, anything with "Van Hansis" in it . They are all SOAP THREADS!!!\ \ Punch and delete those cunts, already.

• She was on The Talk and she said her relationship with David Birney was ''Abusive''. No ands, ifs, or buts. It was abusive, abusive, abusive.\ \ Julie read David Birney''s statement to Meredith for a response. Meredith responded by saying ''I''m no longer married to him, so I choose not to respond''.\ \ To which she received a standing ovation from the audience.

• So no one on DL is allowed to have an opinion other than that Meredith Baxter is insane and an attention whore?\ \ Even when someone calmly points out that she doesn''t need the money, and might be doing this for herself, to finally exorcise the memories... they get shrieked at and told "ENOUGH" (although 8 pages of uneducated fucks making assumptions apparently isn''t enough)?\ \ It doesn''t even occur to someone that people who believe her (or are reserving judgment rather than blindly siding with her ex-husband) are neither her nor all the same person?\ \ This place has gotten stupider than most straight sites, and it''s pretty pathetic.

• Obviously, R145, DLers have yet to watch the video at R135

• It''s possible to find Meredith''s statements ("I feel bad for him") frustrating and even irrational while still believing that homophobia is NEVER warranted, r145.

• R145? Enough. Stop throwing tantrums because everyone disagrees with you, ignoramus.

• [quote]and might be doing this for herself, to finally exorcise the memories.\ \ Oh, gaaaawd, stfuuuuuup, fraulina. Ms. Baxter is a crazy publicity whore. Can''t this kook "exorcise" her memories in therapy?

• As Access Hollywood''s Bill Bush says, this should be done on a couch, not in public.

• ..and Bush was correct.

  Mack Phillips ~ another publicity whore.

• What about George W Bush and his psychological problems with George H W Bush that had to be played out in the presidency and in the Iraq war. Should that have been on a couch, and not in public?

• Mackenzie Phillips and Meredith Baxter were in rehab together.\ \ On TV in the TV movie Kate''s Secret

• But I''ve never been to meeeee.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQWND9jKDA

  Meredith Baxter Birney

• Who knows what the truth is. I am not so sure a slap or twon is abuse either. But most important, what does this accomplish? And how can this be helpful in any way to their children? Unless Birney really is a lose cannon- which I doubt. I don''t think Alec Baldwin is nuts- defintely hot headed, but also big hearted, talented and honest- at least is seems so. His X, Kim Bassinger has always come off as bat shit crazy to me- if he blew up at her- guess he is human.%0D\ %0D\ Most of all- public battles over issues that cannot be resolved except individually (Meredith alone) are useless and potentially harmful to children. I don''t understand it. If she needs money, work, act.

  charlie

• No love for Winnie?

• R155 why are u protecting the abuser? And vilifying the victim?

• R145 Some of us know why this is.%0D\ %0D\ Donald Trump is getting less hatred than Meredith Baxter Birney. That''s fucking sad. A man who comes out and says that he doesn''t think gay people should have full rights like straights, yet you have a whole thread gushing over his latest show. %0D\ %0D\ And this nonsense about lesbians having it easier than woman is nothing but a flagrant excuse for gay men (a.k.a. gay white men) to stay in the closet. You see the hatred and indifference spurned all the time here over lesbians, yet let a cute white twink get the same treatment, and suddenly you''re all Nazi''s throwing people into Gas Chambers.%0D\ %0D\ I wish someone would advertise on the Michfest forum. People haven''t seen hardcore lesbian action on here yet. And they deserve to.

• [quote]Julie read David Birney''s statement to Meredith for a response. Meredith responded by saying ''I''m no longer married to him, so I choose not to respond''.\ \ Actually, Julie said how to do answer him in his statement and she said "I''m not married to him so I don''t have to answer to him anymore, so I won''t".\ \ {quote]Donald Trump is getting less hatred than Meredith Baxter Birney. That''s fucking sad. A man who comes out and says that he doesn''t think gay people should have full rights like straights, yet you have a whole thread gushing over his latest show. \ \ He thinks gays are degenerates. Enjoy his show.

• I was just reading some old Google news clips on MB''s mom, Whitney Blake. Even when she was on Hazel she didn''t bother to mention she had three kids -- M and her two brothers -- instead, pretending her second husband was her first.

• More magazine just canceled a cover story on Meredith Baxter.\ \ Gee I wonder why?

• Sounds like she''s blaming Birney for turning her gay. Disappointing.

• [quote]I was just reading some old Google news clips on MB''s mom, Whitney Blake. Even when she was on Hazel she didn''t bother to mention she had three kids -- M and her two brothers -- instead, pretending her second husband was her first.\ \ Meredith on "The Talk" said she doesn''t ever remembering calling her Mother Mom, she had to call her Whitney to keep her young Hollywood image. And you wonder why she''s messed up?

• Yes, r163, it''s all mommy''s fault. Poor ole Meredith has been a victim all her life. Boo fuckin hoo. \ \ She''s a nut. She''s a fraud.

  next

• I think people would have more sympathy for her if MB weren''t so ''Princess Perfect'' appearing on the outside.%0D\ %0D\ At least she was; now she''s just a hot mess.

  Buddy Lawrence

• [quote]She''s a nut. She''s a fraud.\ \ In other words reply164, she''s a woman and the cute husband is the real victim. Her kids were there and they back her up. You weren''t.

• I am neither protecting nor vilifying anyone R57. This is a he said she said issue. To really settle it there need to be witnesses at the time (e.g. the children).%0D\ %0D\ And as I said, writing a book about it is not the way to help either yourself of your children. Professional help is- and writing a book can only perhaps make matters worse in the family-%0D\ %0D\ I wonder what the children say?

  charlie

• Could it be that they are both right? Based on the interviews that she has given and her own book, Meredith Baxter clearly had emotional and mental problems caused by dysfunctional family and relationships. Was her relationship with David Birney abusive? Physically...I don''t know. Did they heap verbal abuse on one another? In all likelihood...probably. You have a marriage between individuals with high pressure careers. One spouse continues to have success, while the other begins to fade. Add into the mix alcoholism, it doesn''t bode well for a stable relationship. \ \ It''s disingenuous on her part to claim that she''s surprised at the reaction of the media and the public to her allegations in her book about her ex-husband. \ \ She acts. Actors love the limelight. They are incredibly self-centered. I''m glad that MB has discovered who she is. Maybe writing this book has allowed her to take responsibility for her life.

  BonniePrinceCharlie

• If Birney is innocent, he should sue her.%0D\ %0D\ But he probably isn''t innocent. On the other hand, fuck her for bringing it up after so many years.

• He probably hit her but honestly, why is she talking about it in public? There is really no need. If women don''t know by now, that they need to take a hammer to the head of an abusive husband, they never will.

• If she feels like a victim she IS a victim, and the perpetrator must pay. Her anguish is real, therefore her abuse is real and he is a real abuser. When will you people understand that simple fact?

  R166, who still hasn''t read what her kid and stepkid has actually said

• R170, she is talking about it because she wrote a personal book to make a large sum of MONEY!%0D\ %0D\ She obviously needs more money and more money to fill her dwindling coffers.

• [quote]On the other hand, fuck her for bringing it up after so many years.\ \ [quote]why is she talking about it in public? There is really no need.\ \ You do realize this is a gossip site doncha?

• Bump.

• People who are angry about her writing the book she did would have been equally angry if, later, an independent biographer had published these items. Then, MB would have been a liar.

• Sorry to be obtuse, but I''m confused. David Birney tricks when he''s on Broadway but has affairs with co-eds when he''s at Dartmouth. He has never remarried, but does he have a girlfriend? Has he had one since he got divorced? Is he a closeted gay guy or a womanizer? Please explain.

• Meredith Baxter wrote as book because she doesn''t act anymore. She has a woman lover who loves her. What''s next?

• What the fuck is R173 talking about?\ \ Did Meredith Baxter release her book through Datalounge or something?

• Wow. So - her children verify her story, her co-stars verify her characterization of her relationship, and yet we still don''t believe her...wow.

• I don''t think anyone confirmed her claim about physical abuse, did they?

• Abuse is abuse whether it is physical, mental or emotional.

• Does someone have a link where her children verify her story? Have they given interviews of appeared with her promoting the book and its contents? Would that not settle the issue somewhat? %0D\ %0D\ I still don''t understand the reason why she wrote the book however. Money? %0D\ %0D\ Many of use born in the 50s and even 60s were spanked and occasionally slapped by our parents- now that is considered abuse, but then it was not at all. I think one of my parents was probably verbally abusive because it is still going on, only worse in old age. I understand the reasons and also how to handle it and forgive- but you know I was not really aware that it was perhaps not normal or even harmful when I was the receiver. I have a feeling it is very common, and of course there are degrees of abuse.%0D\ %0D\ I still consider myself overall extremely lucky to be born into my particular family. %0D\ %0D\ I wonder if MB considers herself lucky- overall- in the book?

  charlie

• [quote]Does someone have a link where her children verify her story? Have they given interviews of appeared with her promoting the book and its contents? Would that not settle the issue somewhat? \ \ They appeared on Oprah with her and told their own anecdotes about Birney.

  Check Oprah dot com

• [quote]Abuse is abuse whether it is physical, mental or emotional.\ \ Really, Sherlock?\ \ She claims Birney struck her more than once. That''s what''s being debated -- whether those claims of PHYSICAL abuse are credible.

• From R137 to R139 She aged badly..you would never guess that woman was once pretty.

• I have to say, Birney''s rebuttal at R38 carries the sting of truth in light of Meredith''s backpedaling and media-blaming -- which seem oddly dishonest.

• Why Women Like Meredith Baxter Come Out at Midlife Coming out at midlife is more common than you think. by Tamara Jones More and more women are living the ultimate do-over: falling for another female. As actress Meredith Baxter, 62, recently told People magazine, the thought of being gay had "never crossed my mind" before she began dating women seven years ago. Meet the new gay-and-gray generation. Melanie Shore was juggling marriage, motherhood, and a medical career at an urban hospital when suddenly, at age 44, she found herself admiring her best friend in a whole new way. It wasn%E2%80%99t just the deep conversations the two shared, although, for Shore, the emotional bond was becoming increasingly intense. It was also the way her friend moved and spoke, her hair, her skin, her eyes. Her friend was so beautiful %E2%80%94 but she was also gay, which made Shore confront a possibility that shook her to the core: Could I be gay too? Shore had been married for 16 years and enjoyed "a very fulfilling sex life" with her husband. She had no doubt that she loved him. They were raising two wonderful daughters. When she became best friends with a colleague who was a lesbian, she had no idea it would affect her happy life. Shore began spending more and more time with the colleague and her long-term partner %E2%80%94 going out for drinks or dinner, or just hanging out and talking with their circle of gay friends. This lifestyle appealed to Shore; something about it just felt so comfortable, so right. At the same time, Shore discovered she was similarly drawn to a second woman %E2%80%94 an old chum from high school who had come out as a lesbian and was living in another city. "It%E2%80%99s not like I knew and kept it inside for years," says Shore, who chose to be identified by her maiden name in this story. Nor, she adds, was it just an impulse, "like, %E2%80%98I want a new car%E2%80%99 or %E2%80%98I want a new boyfriend.%E2%80%99 It%E2%80%99s %E2%80%98Holy shit, there%E2%80%99s a whole me I didn%E2%80%99t know about, and I can%E2%80%99t ignore it!%E2%80%99" Most straight women don%E2%80%99t find their sexual orientation changing at midlife. On the other hand, most would readily admit to having been captivated, at least momentarily, by another woman%E2%80%99s allure. From kindergarten to retirement home, we size one another up and compare attributes. She has such blue eyes. Wow, what a body. But where is the line between responding to another woman and desiring her? Can you really wake up one morning and discover that you have spent half your life having sex with the wrong gender?

• Suddenly Sapphic Some women do feel as if they%E2%80%99ve been struck by lightning, says Joanne Fleisher, 64, a clinical social worker in Philadelphia. A late-blooming lesbian, she now moderates an Internet message board, Ask Joanne (at lavendervisions.com), for married women grappling with their sexuality. Others say they had some lesbian feelings earlier in life but repressed them, only to find them suddenly coming back much stronger at midlife. But it%E2%80%99s impossible to state exactly how many women are having any version of this epiphany. Official statistics on such changes in midlife sexuality are scarce; much of the current funding for studies of human sexuality in the United States is linked to research on HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. But anecdotal evidence suggests that more women are coming out after age 40 than ever before %E2%80%94 a reflection, most likely, of changing times and attitudes. For example, over 2,600 women are registered on Fleisher%E2%80%99s message board; countless others visit as guests. An analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data by Gary Gates, Distinguished Scholar at the Williams Institute, a UCLA think tank devoted to sexual orientation, shows that, among women living with a same-sex romantic partner, 36 percent of those in their 40s had been married to a man at some point. Among women in their 50s who were living with another woman, more than half had left straight, married life behind; that percentage jumps to a whopping 75 percent for those age 60 or older. Finally, 42 percent of the respondents in a recent MORE.com poll reported knowing one or more women who came out as gay or bisexual at age 40-plus. And nearly a third of our respondents, gay or straight, found themselves attracted to another woman for the first time at midlife. Coming to Terms with Coming Out "Once you open the box, you can%E2%80%99t put the lid back on," says Micki Grimland, a 51-year-old Houston psychotherapist who left her husband of 24 years after realizing she was gay. "I had a great sex life during my marriage, but it was never near the connection I have now. I%E2%80%99m happier and in more resonance with women; the sex I%E2%80%99m having is off the charts." "It%E2%80%99s as if you spoke Chinese and lived in Mexico, then went back to China and could suddenly understand everything," Grimland adds. "Being straight was my second language, and I didn%E2%80%99t realize it until I found my first." Melanie Shore agrees. She had enjoyed multiple orgasms while with her husband, but she says sex with a woman transported her to a whole new level. "There%E2%80%99s no end point," she explains. "There%E2%80%99s this ability to roll back and forth from hot sex to girlfriends giggling and then back again." For financial and insurance reasons, Shore is still legally married. But she is certain she won%E2%80%99t return to the straight life. "I don%E2%80%99t ever want to kiss a man again. I don%E2%80%99t want to have sex with a man again," she says simply. For many gay-and-grays, coming out has been a mostly positive experience. The cultural climate has changed tremendously since those years before the feminist revolution of the 1970s; at the time, the pressure to get married was much greater for women than it is today, and the risks of admitting any same-sex attraction were likewise higher. Gay women who did divorce ran the risk of losing custody of their children if they came out of the closet. For gay women in the 21st century, the culture is more accepting. Celebrities such as Ellen DeGeneres, Cynthia Nixon, and Rosie O%E2%80%99Donnell have come out without facing the same level of scorn and ridicule that tennis star Billie Jean King once did. And although in November 2008 Californians voted to ban same-sex marriage there, the institution is legal in Massachusetts and Connecticut, and several other states allow same-sex couples to register for domestic partnerships or civil unions. Gates estimates that some 85,000 same-sex couples %E2%80%94 two-thirds of them female %E2%80%94 are now in a legally recognized relationship.

• But even in this more relaxed environment, midlife women, particularly those who are married, often agonize over the effect the revelation that they are gay will have on their families, so much so that sometimes they embark on their new life in stages. One of the women interviewed for this story said that she moved out of the home she%E2%80%99d shared with her husband but came back every morning to get the kids ready for school. Another relocated to the guest room before finally getting her own place. "Many of the women who come to our site don%E2%80%99t define themselves as lesbian yet," so they%E2%80%99re in limbo, says Fleisher, who, in addition to moderating her message board, has written the book Living Two Lives: Married to a Man and in Love with a Woman. "They%E2%80%99re so isolated in their lives, so caught. Their married friends don%E2%80%99t understand at all what%E2%80%99s going on, yet they don%E2%80%99t feel connected to lesbians either." By coming out, these women are risking many potential losses %E2%80%94 "their friends, their family%E2%80%99s support, sometimes their financial security %E2%80%A6 the security of a %E2%80%98normal%E2%80%99 life." Shore says her husband was willing to let her explore her new feelings. Then he stayed behind with the kids when, three years later, she moved out of their home and into a rental. But his support didn%E2%80%99t make everything easy. Shore was nervous about what it meant when he said she should "go with it," she recalls. "It was a very brave thing for him to give me that freedom %E2%80%94 and scary for me to take it. All at once I was in this apartment, alone, with the whole life I had planned for myself gone." Her daughters, 21 and 16, now accept her sexuality. But it took nearly two years before they felt comfortable spending their visits with her in the apartment. "You feel like, is this real, is this happening to me, is this something I can live out loud?" she says. It is hard enough for any newly separated older woman to begin again %E2%80%94 imagine trying to relearn the rules in a whole new social milieu. "I know how to flirt with men; I%E2%80%99ve done that all my life," says Jean, a 44-year-old New York City nurse who is in the process of coming out as bisexual. (She asked that we use only her middle name.) "I%E2%80%99m very shy with women, though. I haven%E2%80%99t quite learned how to flirt with them yet. I actually thought it%E2%80%99d be easier, but it%E2%80%99s not." The fact that Jean remains attracted to men has proved a unique challenge: Gay people, she says, are "not always 100 percent accepting of bi people. We get suspicion from both the straight and gay communities. Being around other bisexuals, male or female, is very liberating." Yet with the confusion can also come the exhilaration of newness, a feeling akin to discovering sex for the first time. Fleisher assures the women she counsels that "a normal part of coming out as an adult is the feeling of being an adolescent on fire, caught in the body of a 40- to 50-year-old." "I don%E2%80%99t have a type yet," Shore, now 51, admits. "I%E2%80%99m like a teenage boy. I think every woman is absolutely freakin%E2%80%99 gorgeous."

• Women%E2%80%99s Sexual Continuum With no comprehensive research to go by, experts can go only so far in explaining how or why an apparently straight woman might feel lesbian urges at midlife. "There%E2%80%99s a general recognition in the psychology and public health literature that women are much more likely to refer to themselves as bisexual than men are," Gates says. Eli Coleman, director of the human sexuality program at the University of Minnesota Medical School, has studied both men and women who acknowledged a same-sex attraction during marriage. "Almost 100 percent of the men were aware of their feelings before they got married," Coleman says. "Many women, though, are unaware of same-sex attraction until they%E2%80%99re much older." He attributes this to several factors: "Women marry at an earlier age, before awareness might take place, and they may be more scripted by societal roles." Female desire, Coleman adds, is determined more "by emotional and relationship factors." Men, he says bluntly, are "much more visually motivated." Could hormonal changes play a role? No studies have indicated that so far, Coleman says, but age does seem to be a factor: "The average time for this kind of crisis is somewhere in the late 30s to 40s. At midlife, you%E2%80%99re more likely to be reevaluating what you want." Fleisher warns against "always looking for the one reason" for a midlife sexual shift. But she agrees with Coleman that for many women, an over-40 self-assessment may be involved. Midlife can be a time when "their internal wisdom tells them they%E2%80%99re ready to deal with what they maybe couldn%E2%80%99t have dealt with when they were younger. Or maybe they%E2%80%99re beginning to grow up and pay attention to what they want, to what makes them happy or unhappy," she says. "For others," she speculates, "maybe it%E2%80%99s [life] events that put them there." Looking back on her life, Julie Hatcher, 54, realizes there were early signs that she was gay; she simply chose to ignore them. "I remember when I was 8 or 10, having a crush on a friend%E2%80%99s mother," she says. "I always had an affinity for women. That%E2%80%99s who I wanted to be with. But where I grew up, in a small town in the panhandle of northwest Florida, it wasn%E2%80%99t really an option to be gay." Hatcher married at 18 and was madly in love with her husband until they began growing apart in their 30s. He was all about hunting and fishing, she summarizes. "I leaned more toward spiritual enlightenment." She stayed in the marriage for the sake of their two sons. But by her early 40s, she says, her attraction to women had not waned %E2%80%94 in fact, "It woke up." And life, she decided, was simply too short. Hatcher%E2%80%99s moment of clarity came one day while she was gazing through the kitchen window at her youngest son as she did the laundry. He was 15 at the time, and she suddenly realized that waiting until he was 18 to leave his father wouldn%E2%80%99t make the breakup any less painful for the boy. "The next morning, I asked [my husband] for a divorce," she says. A year later, she began dating Bonnie, the woman who would become her life partner. The two women had a commitment ceremony on New Year%E2%80%99s Eve 1999.

• Unlike Hatcher, Laura Biering puts herself firmly in the lightning bolt category. The 48-year-old Atlantan says she never felt the slightest inkling of attraction to other women. "Nev-er," she emphasizes. If the subject of lesbians came up, "I used to make little jokes," she says. "%E2%80%98Oh, I love women, but I could never be with one.%E2%80%99" Her parents had divorced over her father%E2%80%99s homosexual affairs, but Biering didn%E2%80%99t know that was the reason until she was 18. And then it was her father%E2%80%99s duplicity, not his sexuality, that she despised. Biering wed at 33, and although she was happy at first, her husband eventually began seeming more like a buddy. Work distracted her from the faltering marriage, and she eventually launched her own business as a life coach. Then, four years ago, Biering met Martha, an industry colleague who was still healing after a breakup with her girlfriend of 16 years. Biering would sometimes host work retreats at a farm she%E2%80%99d inherited from her father, and Martha began attending. They forged a friendship and spent more and more time together, often hanging out at the farm. Once, when the two friends were working out together, Biering says she was "feeling the energy going back and forth." Watching the sunset from the front yard that evening, Biering confessed her crush. "Martha," she said, "there%E2%80%99s a huge elephant in the room. I%E2%80%99m afraid to tell you, and I%E2%80%99m afraid not to. Obviously, there are lines that can%E2%80%99t be crossed." Martha suggested they simply hold hands. When Biering got up to go inside, she says, "Martha kissed my hand before she let it go, and in that moment, I knew I had to have those lips on mine. "I can only say in retrospect that I was trained to find men%E2%80%99s bodies attractive. I finally gave myself permission to find women%E2%80%99s bodies beautiful." After a few weeks of sneaking around, Martha delivered an ultimatum: "I don%E2%80%99t want to be the mistress," she told Biering. "Figure out who you are. I%E2%80%99ll be around." Biering%E2%80%99s husband was "unexpectedly graceful in how he handled it all," she says. "There have been moments of being scared, but I have no regrets %E2%80%A6 There are men I love. My ex-husband is one of them. But I don%E2%80%99t have any desire to be with a man sexually." Coming out to her clients caused only one to drop her. Biering%E2%80%99s biggest surprise was the response of the cousin she describes as "a NASCAR-loving, tobacco-chewing guy." "Are you happy?" he wanted to know. "Yes," Biering replied. "If you are, then I am too," he said.

• For women making this huge midlife shift, family acceptance is one piece of a happy ending, and like Laura Biering, Melanie Shore is deeply grateful to have achieved it. But unlike Biering and Julie Hatcher, Shore is still waiting for a different piece to fall into place %E2%80%94 finding her female soul mate. In the cafeteria of the hospital where she works, Shore giddily muses aloud about a woman she is meeting for dinner that night, someone she met on Match.com. It%E2%80%99s their first date; will the woman dress up for her, she wonders? She reminisces about a gala event with another girlfriend, who wowed her by showing up in a scarlet evening gown. For her part, Shore doesn%E2%80%99t fret much about what she will wear. Her look %E2%80%94 neat slacks, casual pullover, and a short, practical haircut that fits under her scrub cap %E2%80%94 hasn%E2%80%99t really changed since she came out. "This is the way I always dressed," she says. Then, with the confidence of a woman truly comfortable in her own skin, she adds, "but there%E2%80%99s a different way I inhabit it now." Tamara Jones is a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer living in northern Virginia. Rebecca Webber, a New York City-based writer, contributed to this report. Originally published in MORE magazine, March 2009.

• ug. can''t you just start a big dyke late in life thread and keep off the abuse thread?

• Next?

• These late in life freaks are bisexuals or just good old fashioned bullshitters looking for attention!

  they also watch too much damn porn!

• Honestly, who would want these used up old biddys? \ \ [quote]"I don''t have a type yet," Shore, now 51, admits. "I''m like a teenage boy. I think every woman is absolutely freakin'' gorgeous."\ \ What a catch she is. *eyeroll*.

• The casts of Family and Eight is Enough went up against each other on Family Feud.\ \ David Birney played on the ''Family'' team b/c they didn''t have enough cast members.\ \ Meredith scored an impressive 187 (I think) in the bonus round. She''s almost apologizing for being so smart with the answers.\ \ I believe her when she says he was mean to her.\ \ Link is to FF.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndLiG2j-X_I&feature=related

• David Birney was like many first generation college graduates in that he truly believed he was smart and everyone else was stupid unless they too went to a place like Dartmouth. \ \ Meredith didn''t attend college and she said he was constantly reminding her of this.

• [quote]You know what is sad? Getting to the ages of these people and having this dirty laundry paraded in public. One would think that a life well lived would yield a sense of dignity and at the VERY least PRIVACY for these types of things. The fact that the two of them are at odds with each other in such a public way (over a relationship that ended many years ago) is just, well, sad and does not reflect well on EITHER of them as evolved, mature adults who are at peace with themselves[/quote]%0D\ %0D\ Truer words have not been spoken.

• Those of you judging Meredith''s motives have obviously never been in an abusive relationship. I saw Merideth and her adult children on Oprah and they all cited memories of what it was like living under the roof of an emotionally abusive person (David Birney). \ \ He sounded alot like my ex-husband. As soon as the garage door opened at 6:00 pm when my ex came home from work, the dog would pee on the floor and the children would scatter to their bedrooms. The Birney household had the same type of experiences.\ \ I believe her story and if you are not interested then don''t buy the book. I just don''t think she deserves all the criticism.

  angela host

• "I should like to add that I have a number of actor friends, and from what I have observed of them and their associates I suspect that some people (not all, but some) who are attracted to this particular field of endeavor have an inchoate sense of self. Chronic uncertainties and anxieties about one''s sexual identity would seem consistent with that picture as well as full-blown personality disorders."\ \ \ Are you saying most actors have BPD?

• Was Meredith in Talking Heads before Tina Weymouth?

• So what?%0D\ %0D\ Who cares??!?

  Joy Behar

• I just finished the book and it's funny to read the replies from a bunch of hysterical queens who don't know what they are talking about. Her mother made her and her sibilings call her Whitney. Her dad wasn't in her life much but she doesn't say anything bad about him, she had a good relationship with her stepmother. Creepy stepfather who was her agent for many years. Her mother was self absorved with her acting career. Birney comes off as a huge creep. One story she told was that they were good friends with a couple who lived in their neighborhood and one night they were out to dinner and he started screaming at the wife and said he didn't want anything to do with her ever again so Meredith cut her off. Years later Meredith found out he had made a pass at her. Michael Gross said that the cast frequently had their families visiting the set, Birney never came once. The two older kids from Baxter's first marriage and one of the twins she had with Birney were on Oprah supporting her. She got along with her Family Ties and Family casts.

• Nothing ever happened after his letter and her interviews, did it? Not that anything could...

• Because, R32, Baxter IS the abuser.

• [quote]Because, [R32], Baxter IS the abuser. Lets try and not talk out of our asses dear.

• Recovered memories are bullshit. Case closed.

• I believe her. She wasn't making much sense, but then O asked her why; she said all I can think of was when I saw something bad come into my life I said, "THIS is familiar!"

• [quote] Lets try and not talk out of our asses dear. Then, by all means stop posting, sweetheart.

• Is book worth buying?

• R210, Trolldar is not your friend, snookums. Recovered memory is bullshit. The end.

• I just finished this book and it has nothing to do with "recovered memories".

• Merideth is a liar, she isn't even really a lesbian.

• [quote]Her mother made her and her sibilings call her Whitney. How awful!!!! Why wasn't she reported to the authorities for this abuse?